The positive out of this fallout is that the Army / Military is no longer a sacred cow!

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

First time in my life I am seeing the common man not involved in politics criticizing the military establishment. Do you see this as a positive sign for the future where the military now knows that the population will not blindly fall in line with whatever their narrative is. What are your thoughts?

 

[Major]

Naa. Army will make few dramas and the people will be back praising them...

All it takes is making one raheek shareef and all is forgiven and for gotten.

You might have notice, hameed guls qoutes are being shared online.

The likes of imran are not a threat to the milltary...

The problem are the likes of pashteen manzoor, ali wazir and mohsin dawar. Out of all the speeches Mohsin Dawar was the only one who spoke sense and wanted to spill more as he knew he wont get the oppurnity again. If these guys start speaking than that could lead the masses having a chnage in opinion.

Milltary reputation isnt damaged. I remembered how hated they were after musharaffe regime...

Our nation goes gaga if you are a religious general, bring someone like that and the reputation would be restored

 

[Kianig89]

since the boot likcers are back so they will again them holy cow status

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

PDM will start the boot polishing. It was a façade that they were anti establishment. They were just anti IK because their political future was at stake. And now they worked with the Army to throw out PTI.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I posted this in another thread, however for anyone who did not see that, BBC Urdu is saying that IK tried to sack Bajwa. Others, including IK have said this is false, however here is the article using Google Translate

What happened at the Prime Minister's House on Saturday night?

Amid the uproar of the no-confidence motion against the Prime Minister, extraordinary activity took place in the Prime Minister's House on Saturday night, during which some historic decisions and events took place, some in front of the cameras and most in closed rooms. Parliament House was the center of activity throughout the day on Saturday, with speeches sometimes held and meetings adjourned, with government and opposition members holding talks between the Speaker and the National Assembly. But in the evening, when the National Assembly session was adjourned for Iftar, the center of activity suddenly became the Prime Minister's House. Prime Minister Imran Khan convened an emergency meeting of the federal cabinet, along with his legal and political advisers, the speaker and deputy speaker, and some bureaucrats.

The cabinet meeting approved the release of the alleged cable to some officials, which former Prime Minister Imran Khan said contained details of a US plot to overthrow his government. Meanwhile, the Speaker of the National Assembly and the Deputy Speaker also reached the Prime Minister's House but were asked to wait in the lounge next to the Prime Minister's Office. Meanwhile, two uninvited guests also reached the Prime Minister's House by helicopter, surrounded by extraordinary security and well-armed men and met the Prime Minister in private for about a quarter of an hour. It is unknown at this time what he will do after leaving the post. No more An hour ago, the then Prime Minister Imran Khan had ordered the removal of a senior official present at the meeting.

Therefore, the sudden arrival of these uninvited guests was unexpected for the Prime Minister. Imran Khan was waiting for the helicopter but his guesses and expectations about the passengers of this helicopter proved to be completely wrong. Sources said that the former prime minister was expecting that his newly appointed officials would reach the Prime Minister's House in this helicopter and after that the noise which started from Parliament House after the Supreme Court decision would subside. Had happened It may have happened, but the problem was that the legal document (notification) that should have been issued by the Ministry of Defense for this highest dismissal and a new appointment could not be issued, thus thwarting the Prime Minister's House's attempt at this 'revolutionary' change. Done.

By the way, even if this process of removal was completed on the order of the Prime Minister, arrangements had been made to declare it null and void. The locks of the Islamabad High Court were unlocked on Saturday night and the staff of Chief Justice Athar Minallah reached the High Court. It was informed that the High Court is scheduled to hear an urgent petition in which Adnan Iqbal Advocate as an ordinary citizen challenged in court the 'possible' notification of removal of the Chief of Army Staff by Prime Minister Imran Khan.

What was The urgent petition said that Imran Khan had misused his powers for political and personal purposes and recommended the removal of the Chief of Army Staff, therefore the court should quash the order in the best public interest. It is important to note here that this request was prepared but left blank in place of the notification number for the removal of the Chief of Army Staff. The reason for this was that despite the request of the Prime Minister, the notification could not be issued and thus it was not the turn of hearing on this petition.

https://www.bbc.com/urdu/pakistan-61055639

 

[AZulfi]

The criticism of Bajwa and the establishment on social media yesterday was unprecedented

 

[cricketjoshila]

I posted this in another thread, however for anyone who did not see that, BBC Urdu is saying that IK tried to sack Bajwa. Others, including IK have said this is false, however here is the article using Google Translate



https://www.bbc.com/urdu/pakistan-61055639

He did it late. He should have done this when the Chief refused to obey him and appointed his own man as isi chief.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

He did it late. He should have done this when the Chief refused to obey him and appointed his own man as isi chief.

The mistake was the extension not the ISI chief.

The problem with the ISI chief is that he is a serving Army officer, so he will always have two boss's. And in most cases he will be more loyal to the COAS as he has to go back to the Army. In the case of Faiz Hameed he will be candidate to be the next COAS this year, so maybe he was trying to get in IK's good books, which is why IK wanted him to stay. However he did not want to stay as ISI chief, he wanted to command a corp as he needs 1 year experience to be eligible to become the next COAS.

Benazir appointed a retired army general as ISI chief, and it did not end well. She called it the biggest mistake of her first term as PM. So as long as you cant appoint a civilian as head of ISI it really does not matter who he is.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The mistake was the extension not the ISI chief.

The problem with the ISI chief is that he is a serving Army officer, so he will always have two boss's. And in most cases he will be more loyal to the COAS as he has to go back to the Army. In the case of Faiz Hameed he will be candidate to be the next COAS this year, so maybe he was trying to get in IK's good books, which is why IK wanted him to stay. However he did not want to stay as ISI chief, he wanted to command a corp as he needs 1 year experience to be eligible to become the next COAS.

Benazir appointed a retired army general as ISI chief, and it did not end well. She called it the biggest mistake of her first term as PM. So as long as you cant appoint a civilian as head of ISI it really does not matter who he is.

In India we don't appoint a army man as RAW chief. Its always a IPS. Something pakistan can follow.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

In India we don't appoint a army man as RAW chief. Its always a IPS. Something pakistan can follow.

I don't think that's realistic for Pakistan.

To get a civilian as head of ISI the best option is to first appoint a retired COAS as head. It will be hard to label an ex chief as traitor. So that can set a precedent for more retired generals. And then maybe retired Admirals, and retired Air marshal. This will be not be easy, and the establishment will have to give their ok, but I think eventually it can be done. However someone who is not part of Armed Forces to be head of ISI I don't see it happening ever.

The real problem is that the COAS views himself as a co Prime Minister, above the PM, or a junior PM. Which one depends on the general. So if a civilian is head of ISI he will have no control over him. And that's hard for the COAS to accept.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't think that's realistic for Pakistan.

To get a civilian as head of ISI the best option is to first appoint a retired COAS as head. It will be hard to label an ex chief as traitor. So that can set a precedent for more retired generals. And then maybe retired Admirals, and retired Air marshal. This will be not be easy, and the establishment will have to give their ok, but I think eventually it can be done. However someone who is not part of Armed Forces to be head of ISI I don't see it happening ever.

The real problem is that the COAS views himself as a co Prime Minister, above the PM, or a junior PM. Which one depends on the general. So if a civilian is head of ISI he will have no control over him. And that's hard for the COAS to accept.

For starters Pakistani PMs have to stop paying homage to the COAS.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

For starters Pakistani PMs have to stop paying homage to the COAS.

if it was that easy it would have been done a long time ago. best way is to gradually reduce their power

 

[gani999]

In India we don't appoint a army man as RAW chief. Its always a IPS. Something pakistan can follow.

The RAW is a civilian organisation.

The ISI is a wing of the Pakistan Army.


Big difference...

 

[cricketjoshila]

The RAW is a civilian organisation.

The ISI is a wing of the Pakistan Army.


Big difference...

They have made it a Army wing.

India has a separate Military intelligence called DMI.

We also have a separate intelligence wing for internal intelligence. IB.

RAW is only for external intelligence.

This is why no one organization has total control.

 

[cricketjoshila]

if it was that easy it would have been done a long time ago. best way is to gradually reduce their power

If all political parties come together, it will be done.

 

[adi_62941]

Naa. Army will make few dramas and the people will be back praising them...

All it takes is making one raheek shareef and all is forgiven and for gotten.

You might have notice, hameed guls qoutes are being shared online.

The likes of imran are not a threat to the milltary...

The problem are the likes of pashteen manzoor, ali wazir and mohsin dawar. Out of all the speeches Mohsin Dawar was the only one who spoke sense and wanted to spill more as he knew he wont get the oppurnity again. If these guys start speaking than that could lead the masses having a chnage in opinion.

Milltary reputation isnt damaged. I remembered how hated they were after musharaffe regime...

Our nation goes gaga if you are a religious general, bring someone like that and the reputation would be restored

You cannot undermine the power of social media and even main stream media now a days. They have a power to overturn important decisions, topple government, etc.

Pakistani people have understood that army is not a sacred cow anymore. Same happened in 1988 when altaf was exiled and declared as traitor because he named generals and army bad doings but he was only a regional leader of minorities (Muhajir) and media was not independent that time. But now the time and situation is completely different.

 

[Varun]

Also what is that ISPR thing?

Are they there to guard the borders or publish goodie goodie news articles about themselves?

 

[mazkhan]

The military is already going after pti media wing people.

I predict balkanisation


And it relates to 3 things pashtun and baloch and a possible indian attempt on azad kashmir .
Pashtuns kpk are brave courageous people and pro pti and imran and anti slavery anti American
They won't accept punjabi ghulami this province loves ik with passion
they won't stand for it too long with help from afghan taliban who might start getting droned in very near future it could cause a mass insurrection of our frontier

Baloch have always been rebellious and like kurdish people very nationalistic don't be surprised if elements in Iran russia might start helping them , Russia will be rightly peeved at that idiot bajwas statements.

Then you have azad kashmir , the saffron dhoti brigade across the border have made it no secret about taking whole of kashmir. There is a very strong probability they will attempt this via usa economic blackmail or incursion when the time is right , if you have mis governance which will be likely by the crook parties it will have an insurrection effect because you have on world stage an energy and food crisis and high inflation added to the mix , india could choose the right time when pakistan is embroiled In civil warfare unrest and economic dire straits. Country cannot afford another 10 yrs of pmln and ppp its basically a suicide attempt.
And most west and gulf countries are against mass immigration so avenues of immigration which many pakistanis used in 2000s go get to Europe are closed due to hostile European goverments on refugees .

 

[saeedhk]

I have never seen this much hatred for the military in my lifetime. Even the comment section of the video of Shaheen 3 missile test is inundated with rude and offensive remarks about the military.

 

[Varun]

I have never seen this much hatred for the military in my lifetime. Even the comment section of the video of Shaheen 3 missile test is inundated with rude and offensive remarks about the military.

It doesn't matter even if such a sentiment prevails for some time. I doubt the Pakistani army cares about what people think of them, like a political party would. They are used to getting their way or the highway.

Guess who the constant is, last year, this year and beyond - regardless of the PM face? That's right - Bajwa.

 

[MenInG]

The Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) on Sunday termed a report by the BBC Urdu “fake” that claimed an “unpleasant” meeting between Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) Chairperson Imran Khan and army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa took place at the Prime Minister’s Office hours before Imran’s ouster through a no-trust vote.

In its report, the BBC claimed that the former premier had removed Gen Bajwa as the army chief and was not expecting his visit to the PM’s Office along with an “extraordinary security routine”.

“BBC Urdu story published today is totally baseless and a pack of lies. The typical propaganda story lacks any credible, authentic and relevant source and violates basic journalistic ethos,” the ISPR said, adding, “there is no truth in the fake story whatsoever and clearly seems part of an organised disinformation campaign. The matter is being taken up with BBC authorities.”

In June 2019, the BBC story titled 'Uncovering Pakistan's secret human rights abuses' alleged the Pakistani security forces of perpetrating widespread violence against the residents of the erstwhile FATA during its anti-terror operations.

In response to a "defamatory and malicious story" published by a foreign news outlet against the Pakistani security forces, the government of Pakistan filed a complaint to demand an apology to which till date no apology was issued by BBC.

As per sources, BBC has been propagating a “pack of lies” not only with regard to Pakistan but internationally as well. “In the past, there are so many incidents when BBC’s so-called ethical journalism proved to be fake, fabricated and without ethos of journalism,” they added. Following are a few cases when BBC’s editorial policies and journalism proved to be fake.

Hutton Inquiry

The Hutton Inquiry was a 2003 judicial inquiry in the UK chaired by Lord Hutton, who was appointed by the Labour government to investigate the controversial circumstances surrounding the death of Dr David Kelly, a biological warfare expert and former UN weapons inspector in Iraq.

On 18 July 2003, Kelly, an employee of the Ministry of Defence, was found dead after he had been named as the source of quotations used by BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan. These quotations had formed the basis of media reports claiming that the government had knowingly "sexed up" the "September Dossier", a report on Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.

The Hutton report cleared the government of wrongdoing, while the BBC was strongly criticised, leading to the resignation of the BBC's chairman Gavyn Davies and director-general Greg Dyke.

The government denounced the reports and accused the BBC of poor journalism. The then British prime minister Tony Blair apologised to the public for taking actions based on wrong intelligence.

BBC apologised for a wrong claim for Ukrainian President

The publication wrongly claimed that then Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko had been involved in making a secret $400,000 payment to Donald Trump’s lawyer in return for access to the US president.

However, after a judge at the high court in London sided with the Ukrainian president’s interpretation of the article, the BBC decided it could no longer defend its reporting. As a result, the broadcaster agreed to pay damages and issue a correction; it must also pay the Ukrainian’s legal costs.

BBC later issued an apology “In our 'News at Ten' bulletin and in an online article published on May 23, 2018 we incorrectly reported that Petro Poroshenko, the president of Ukraine, had procured or authorised a corrupt payment of $400,000 to be made to Michael Cohen, the personal lawyer of Donald Trump, to extend a brief meeting between Mr Poroshenko and President Trump, that had already been agreed, into wider talks.

“We are happy to accept that this allegation was untrue. We apologise to Mr Poroshenko for any distress caused and have agreed to pay him damages, legal costs and have participated in a joint statement in open court.”

Express Tribune

 

[daytrader]

It doesn't matter even if such a sentiment prevails for some time. I doubt the Pakistani army cares about what people think of them, like a political party would. They are used to getting their way or the highway.

Guess who the constant is, last year, this year and beyond - regardless of the PM face? That's right - Bajwa.

It does matter to them, serving officers can't comment much on it but the response by retired folks is one of disappointment. Pak army are people of Pakistan and they have their political affiliations and an image to protect.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Also what is that ISPR thing?

Are they there to guard the borders or publish goodie goodie news articles about themselves?

What us a goodie goodie article?

 

[daytrader]

Also what is that ISPR thing?

Are they there to guard the borders or publish goodie goodie news articles about themselves?

It's their PR wing to portray a positive image to the masses, hence why reputation is so important to them

 

[Mamoon]

Also what is that ISPR thing?

Are they there to guard the borders or publish goodie goodie news articles about themselves?

ISPR’s job is to lie and spread false propaganda.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Naa. Army will make few dramas and the people will be back praising them...

All it takes is making one raheek shareef and all is forgiven and for gotten.

You might have notice, hameed guls qoutes are being shared online.

The likes of imran are not a threat to the milltary...

The problem are the likes of pashteen manzoor, ali wazir and mohsin dawar. Out of all the speeches Mohsin Dawar was the only one who spoke sense and wanted to spill more as he knew he wont get the oppurnity again. If these guys start speaking than that could lead the masses having a chnage in opinion.

Milltary reputation isnt damaged. I remembered how hated they were after musharaffe regime...

Our nation goes gaga if you are a religious general, bring someone like that and the reputation would be restored

So why did you support the removal of Imran Khan? You also backed Bilawal Bhutto so presumably he passed the military rule test.

 

[Savak]

Pti supporters who were hardcore army supporters in the last decade are now very upset and have upped the anti army rhetoric.

Its funny tho seeing Nawaz Sharif given his anti army and anti Bajwa rhetoric in the past is now smiling and happy to accept Bajwa as the COAS given he is favouring the PML N and PPP again.

 

[Pakpak]

Pti supporters who were hardcore army supporters in the last decade are now very upset and have upped the anti army rhetoric.

Its funny tho seeing Nawaz Sharif given his anti army and anti Bajwa rhetoric in the past is now smiling and happy to accept Bajwa as the COAS given he is favouring the PML N and PPP again.

Nawaz has always been bought back by the army. Proper boot licker him and his beggar brother

 

[Pakpak]

So why did you support the removal of Imran Khan? You also backed Bilawal Bhutto so presumably he passed the military rule test.

Kudos to you for wasting time on someone who's a sell out.

Imagine if Imran gave his party to his son ina will. These lot will have a heart attack. And would bash him constantly. But here Rani got the party from his mother at 19 so it's all good

 

[Extra_Cover]

 

[Major]

New govt should remove the media censure ordinances that were issued by immy and his dentist uncle.

After which, get that petition shown on media that was sent to ihc.

Imran probably did gave orders to remove, which resulted ministry of defence to send a personal to islamabad high court.

Imran was trying to get the army to remove him and act as a martyr. Good stuff by bajwa to not fall for this buffonary

 

[Markhor]

Pti supporters who were hardcore army supporters in the last decade are now very upset and have upped the anti army rhetoric.

Its funny tho seeing Nawaz Sharif given his anti army and anti Bajwa rhetoric in the past is now smiling and happy to accept Bajwa as the COAS given he is favouring the PML N and PPP again.

The cynicism and hypocrisy from Pakistani political supporters is stunning.

They play the anti-establishment card based on political convenience, not on genuinely held principles of civilian supremacy.

PTI supporters were generally pro-military when it seemed Imran and the military were on good terms. Now Imran is forced out and there's accusations being hurled at the military for engineering a "judicial coup" to excuse Imran's tactical blunder of shutting down the NCM which even his own AG wouldn't defend. There's even wild rumours flying around that Bajwa roughed up Imran at PM House.

Of course PML-N and PPP supporters conveniently forget when cursing the military about "selecting" Imran that their iconic leaders would be nobody without military patronage. ZAB served in Ayub's cabinet, while the Sharifs were the proteges of Zia. The IJI led by Nawaz even had money funneled to it by ISI to topple Benazir's Govt in 1990.

Memories are short in Pakistan.

 

[cricketjoshila]

A very unpleasant thing happened between ISI chief and Imran, as per few OSINTs.

 

[Extra_Cover]

The disinformation is absolutely at disgraceful level.

On Imran's defense the moment this disinformation campaign picked up late in the day IK was meeting with some media personnel at same time. All of those media personnel have clarified that IK made no such order or wasn't planning on making any such issue.

Even DGISPR clarified that this disinformation campaign is absolutely baseless but yet here are posters adding fuel to this disinformation fire.

 

[Major]

The disinformation is absolutely at disgraceful level.

On Imran's defense the moment this disinformation campaign picked up late in the day IK was meeting with some media personnel at same time. All of those media personnel have clarified that IK made no such order or wasn't planning on making any such issue.

Even DGISPR clarified that this disinformation campaign is absolutely baseless but yet here are posters adding fuel to this disinformation fire.

Oh bhai.

Islamabad highcourt opened. That is a fact.

A petition was submitted. That is a fact.

That petition said, can pm remove imran khan, that is a fact.


Islamabad high court, will not ever open up at 11 pm in the night to look at the petition of some common man.

The petition was most likely sent by ministry of defence and they did it after imran gave orders and they were expected to type up a notice to coas which they did not. Hence sent a man to ihc at 11 pm at night.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Oh bhai.

Islamabad highcourt opened. That is a fact.

A petition was submitted. That is a fact.

That petition said, can pm remove imran khan, that is a fact.


Islamabad high court, will not ever open up at 11 pm in the night to look at the petition of some common man.

The petition was most likely sent by ministry of defence and they did it after imran gave orders and they were expected to type up a notice to coas which they did not. Hence sent a man to ihc at 11 pm at night.

Agreed something was cooking in the night, not denying that. But why can't you for a change realise that there is a possibility that this chaos in courts happened last night because someone started a rumour? Given the media biasness why are you discounting the fact that a rumour would have spread like wildfire and everyone kicked into action including SC and IHC.

If IK infact did try to remove Gen Bajwa then where is that letter of dismissal or removal?

I'm just stunned that we are quick to blame it on IK and be part of the disinformation network. The guy himself admitted that he didn't do anything like that but let's not take his direct words and let's believe the biased media here. Enough stupidity?

 

[Bewal Express]

Just imagine Bajwa will be saluting a money launderer.

 

[Major]

Agreed something was cooking in the night, not denying that. But why can't you for a change realise that there is a possibility that this chaos in courts happened last night because someone started a rumour? Given the media biasness why are you discounting the fact that a rumour would have spread like wildfire and everyone kicked into action including SC and IHC.

If IK infact did try to remove Gen Bajwa then where is that letter of dismissal or removal?

I'm just stunned that we are quick to blame it on IK and be part of the disinformation network. The guy himself admitted that he didn't do anything like that but let's not take his direct words and let's believe the biased media here. Enough stupidity?

Biased media? Bhai ary reported all this. Ary is pro pti.

Islamabad high court opened, that is a fact. ECP and supreme court oepning made sense due to contempt of court and speaker wasting the days order.

IHC opening up made no sense. It opened its a fact. The petition filed is a fact. This was reported by all media houses pro and anti pti.

To remove COAS, you have to write to ministry of defence who will write up the notification to COAS. Ministry of defence never wrote the notificarion and sent someone along with a petition to IHC.

Imran is offcourse gonna deny this as his order as pm not passing through makes him look bad.. stop trusting imrans direct words as if they are gospel.

There are alot of things that happened last night and you just only need to connect the dots.

IHC will never open up for the likes of you or me. And they had nothing to do with parliament proceedings thats all supreme court.

The petition news coveres by all media houses

 

[Extra_Cover]

Biased media? Bhai ary reported all this. Ary is pro pti.

Islamabad high court opened, that is a fact. ECP and supreme court oepning made sense due to contempt of court and speaker wasting the days order.

IHC opening up made no sense. It opened its a fact. The petition filed is a fact. This was reported by all media houses pro and anti pti.

To remove COAS, you have to write to ministry of defence who will write up the notification to COAS. Ministry of defence never wrote the notificarion and sent someone along with a petition to IHC.

Imran is offcourse gonna deny this as his order as pm not passing through makes him look bad.. stop trusting imrans direct words as if they are gospel.

There are alot of things that happened last night and you just only need to connect the dots.

IHC will never open up for the likes of you or me. And they had nothing to do with parliament proceedings thats all supreme court.

The petition news coveres by all media houses

You see the highlighted part is the key thing.

Imran's has earned respect of public especially when it comes to morality. He has earned this over his past 2 decades of political struggle. The level of his morality is frankly unchallenged in Pakistani political world as no other leader can match IK's level.

When you say don't trust IK the fact is people now overwhelmingly trust IK than any other source and this didn't happen overnight it happened because of his over 2 decades of political career with clean slate.

Innocent unless proven guilty. No more assumptions/allegations, bring admissable proof or be part of disinformation.

 

[Major]

You see the highlighted part is the key thing.

Imran's has earned respect of public especially when it comes to morality. He has earned this over his past 2 decades of political struggle. The level of his morality is frankly unchallenged in Pakistani political world as no other leader can match IK's level.

When you say don't trust IK the fact is people now overwhelmingly trust IK than any other source and this didn't happen overnight it happened because of his over 2 decades of political career with clean slate.

Innocent unless proven guilty. No more assumptions/allegations, bring admissable proof or be part of disinformation.

bhai, its better to follow news that gets reported.

Forget antipti news channel, go towards pro pti news channels.

You will trust the words of one man but not look at the evidence being presented by pti pro news channels that look this institute has opened up.

The info is out there by the pro pti media houses. You can connect the dots if you want to. If you want to selectively act ignorant its upto you.

Imran said its a foreign conspiracy and people believed him. But those people who read the news paper daily and follow news daily, they know that this was happening for the last 10 months because of ordinances passed, and how the opposition was not being consulted in a parliamentry govt

 

[saeedhk]

Biased media? Bhai ary reported all this. Ary is pro pti.

Islamabad high court opened, that is a fact. ECP and supreme court oepning made sense due to contempt of court and speaker wasting the days order.

IHC opening up made no sense. It opened its a fact. The petition filed is a fact. This was reported by all media houses pro and anti pti.

To remove COAS, you have to write to ministry of defence who will write up the notification to COAS. Ministry of defence never wrote the notificarion and sent someone along with a petition to IHC.

Imran is offcourse gonna deny this as his order as pm not passing through makes him look bad.. stop trusting imrans direct words as if they are gospel.

There are alot of things that happened last night and you just only need to connect the dots.

IHC will never open up for the likes of you or me. And they had nothing to do with parliament proceedings thats all supreme court.

The petition news coveres by all media houses

Exactly! Why would Imran admit such a humiliation that an army officer refused to follow his order. It would make IK look meek, timid and weak. IHC opening up and the petition being filed is more than good evidence that IK tried to teach Bajwa a lesson but failed.

 

[Sirris]

Yes, I agree. I looked around at Social media to check the mood of “awam” and saw many critical voices towards the armed forces.

More accountability and scrutiny of this institution is necessary.

 

[Sirris]

These verses captures my sentiment for the Pak Army. As a kid of 90s growing up in Pakistan I once held it in high regards

تو ادھر ادھر کی نہ بات کر یہ بتا کہ قافلہ کیوں لٹا
مجھے رہزنوں سے گلا نہیں تری رہبری کا سوال ہے

 

[Major]

Funny how pti fans want more accountability from army. These guys use to feel proud that they and army on the same chapter. They took pride in the fact they had the armys backing.

Now there is no point in talking against them. When you were getting the benefit you guys took pride in that. problem is today you are against them, if tomr they support you again you lot will again be singing praises that look us and army are on the same page.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

First time in my life I am seeing the common man not involved in politics criticizing the military establishment. Do you see this as a positive sign for the future where the military now knows that the population will not blindly fall in line with whatever their narrative is. What are your thoughts?

I have always argued against anyone who criticized Pak Army, and I always defended the army.

But after this saga, I feel like I was wrong all along.

Many blamed the very high ranks of Pak army for most of the internal unrest in Pakistan, including public bomb blasts.

I always thought this was a ridiculous thought but now I feel as if there is some element of truth into it.

The idea behind the public bomb blasting was to show the west, an evidence of security challenges to our nuclear facilities (at the expense of slaughtering the public), and ask for more and more money from the west. And then the huge budgets reserved from those loans would get freely distributed among the top brass of Pak army. Total bandar baant in the corrupt high ranked army groups.

May be this is all a hogwash and conspiracy theory, but after the recent back stabbing by the Army to IK, anything is possible and expected from this army.

The high ranks are corrupt to the core. They don't have any fighting spirit and jazba-e-emaani left.
They have a few low ranked soldiers placed on the border who get killed every other day, while the hank rank officers sit behind and enjoy their wine and alcoholic drinks.

A few years ago, an army officer friend told me that alcohol supply and drinking in the army is so common that we drink more "sharaab" than water.

At that point, I did not believe in him but now, I think it could be very well true.

I am disappointed in this internally rotten army than any other thing during this saga.

 

[Major]

I have always argued against anyone who criticized Pak Army, and I always defended the army.

But after this saga, I feel like I was wrong all along.

Many blamed the very high ranks of Pak army for most of the internal unrest in Pakistan, including public bomb blasts.

I always thought this was a ridiculous thought but now I feel as if there is some element of truth into it.

The idea behind the public bomb blasting was to show the west, an evidence of security challenges to our nuclear facilities (at the expense of slaughtering the public), and ask for more and more money from the west. And then the huge budgets reserved from those loans would get freely distributed among the top brass of Pak army. Total bandar baant in the corrupt high ranked army groups.

May be this is all a hogwash and conspiracy theory, but after the recent back stabbing by the Army to IK, anything is possible and expected from this army.

The high ranks are corrupt to the core. They don't have any fighting spirit and jazba-e-emaani left.
They have a few low ranked soldiers placed on the border who get killed every other day, while the hank rank officers sit behind and enjoy their wine and alcoholic drinks.

A few years ago, an army officer friend told me that alcohol supply and drinking in the army is so common that we drink more "sharaab" than water.

At that point, I did not believe in him but now, I think it could be very well true.

I am disappointed in this internally rotten army than any other thing during this saga.

Lol, so it took you to believe army is bad after your favourtie cricketr was removed? Which means there are things you will comtinue to blindly support.

As for the alcahol claims. Pakistan has an alcahol brewary. Murree brewary produces Gin, wine, vidka, beers and many other drinks.
Their favtory is in rawalpindi, right infront of army house.

As army house surrondings are protected, murree brewary surrondings get automatic protection aswell

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Funny how pti fans want more accountability from army. These guys use to feel proud that they and army on the same chapter. They took pride in the fact they had the armys backing.

Now there is no point in talking against them. When you were getting the benefit you guys took pride in that. problem is today you are against them, if tomr they support you again you lot will again be singing praises that look us and army are on the same page.

Yep, it looks like we were wrong all along that democracy exists in Pakistan, but looks like the naysayers could be correct.

It's the army that decides the PM. Whether Zardari, or Nawaz or IK, without the army's approval, none can take the helm.
And if these PM's don't obey the army, we see Marshall Law rule or No confidence vote type junk and drama.

Right now, if Shahbaz Shareefa and Zardari are driving, then Army is the one that made them sit in the driving seat.

 

[Bewal Express]

The Army Generals have found new besties but looking at the comments on the missile launch, both the Generals and their Besties have about as much respect as each other

 

[Major]

Yep, it looks like we were wrong all along that democracy exists in Pakistan, but looks like the naysayers could be correct.

It's the army that decides the PM. Whether Zardari, or Nawaz or IK, without the army's approval, none can take the helm.
And if these PM's don't obey the army, we see Marshall Law rule or No confidence vote type junk and drama.

Right now, if Shahbaz Shareefa and Zardari are driving, then Army is the one that made them sit in the driving seat.

You cant compare nawaz to zardari.

Zardari is now part of the establishment, he is no more jsut a politician anymore.

Him being in the establishment gives ppp the upper hand.

Pmln 's nawaz and shabaz will never be part of the establishment they were used by zardari and will be soon discarded off

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Kudos to you for wasting time on someone who's a sell out.

Imagine if Imran gave his party to his son ina will. These lot will have a heart attack. And would bash him constantly. But here Rani got the party from his mother at 19 so it's all good

What's funnier is that he's not even talking about Mummy Daddy boy any more, he's openly talking about Zardari. This is how duplicitous these people are.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Lol, so it took you to believe army is bad after your favourtie cricketr was removed? Which means there are things you will comtinue to blindly support.

As for the alcahol claims. Pakistan has an alcahol brewary. Murree brewary produces Gin, wine, vidka, beers and many other drinks.
Their favtory is in rawalpindi, right infront of army house.

As army house surrondings are protected, murree brewary surrondings get automatic protection aswell

Being a patriot, by default every person in every country blindly supports it's army. Pakistani army seems to have made an exception. The way IK was removed with a green light from Army, it's now clear to everyone there is no doubt left that Pakistan has no democracy. Everything is for sale.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Being a patriot, by default every person in every country blindly supports it's army. Pakistani army seems to have made an exception. The way IK was removed with a green light from Army, it's now clear to everyone there is no doubt left that Pakistan has no democracy. Everything is for sale.

In a democracy at least the people get to decide. With a general in control, you only have to pay off one person, and his associates.

 

[Savak]

Let's say for argument sake that IK indeed did make an attempt to remove Bajwa, why would he do it at the very end? Why not a few days earlier?

Also media reporters were in the PM house and they didn't witness any scuffle, fight. The opposition can file references in the courts whenever they want therefore they probably filed the fake reference regarding IK firing Bajwa.

 

[Major]

What's funnier is that he's not even talking about Mummy Daddy boy any more, he's openly talking about Zardari. This is how duplicitous these people are.

Interesting, i am being called a duplicate by a person who says he is british not a pakistani, but still loves to take part in pakistani discussion

 

[JimmyGetsBuckets]

In a democracy at least the people get to decide. With a general in control, you only have to pay off one person, and his associates.

If it’s true and the boots control everything, Imran khan should expose everyone and everything behind the scenes.

 

[Varun]

Just imagine Bajwa will be saluting a money launderer.

A post that places this Bajwa chap on a pedestal and makes it seem like he's above human ills.

The sooner Pakistanis get rid of this default 'Army can do no wrong, it's always the politicians' fault' mentality, the better.

 

[Savak]

If the Pakistan army is so powerful and coup trigger happy, how can any civilian government reign them in? Dimilitarize them? That would be playing in India's and Foreign hands.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I have always argued against anyone who criticized Pak Army, and I always defended the army.

The army's core support in the public came from the urban middle class/upper middle class population. They hated the dynastic parties, the religious parties, and the ethnic parties. Now they have a party which they can support. They will not forgive them for this.

PPP meets 2 of the 3 criteria, and I think it can be the second party which this group of people can back. A lot of people from this group already support them, because its a liberal party.

The high ranks are corrupt to the core. They don't have any fighting spirit and jazba-e-emaani left.
They have a few low ranked soldiers placed on the border who get killed every other day, while the hank rank officers sit behind and enjoy their wine and alcoholic drinks.

A few years ago, an army officer friend told me that alcohol supply and drinking in the army is so common that we drink more "sharaab" than water.

At that point, I did not believe in him but now, I think it could be very well true.

I am disappointed in this internally rotten army than any other thing during this saga.

The Army is a reflection of the nation. They are no more honest and no more corrupt than anyone else in Pakistan. This idea that they are not corrupt has to go.

As far as alcohol goes, in Pakistan I have noted a lot of rich and poor people drink. Its really only the middle class where it is rare. They should be allowed to drink if they want, Muslims have been drinking alcohol in the subcontinent for the last 1,400 years.

And lot of Muslims subscribe to the Ghalib view of Sharaab peeta hoon, suar nahin khata.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The RAW is a civilian organisation.

The ISI is a wing of the Pakistan Army.


Big difference...

Technically the Military Intelligence (MI) is the army's intelligence group. Naval Intelligence is for Navy. And Air Intelligence is for Air Force.

ISI is Pakistan's external agency in theory like RAW.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If all political parties come together, it will be done.

I agree if they could come together it will be done. But will they? I dont think so. Right now the PDM supporters are doing bhangra. They don't care

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

It doesn't matter even if such a sentiment prevails for some time. I doubt the Pakistani army cares about what people think of them, like a political party would. They are used to getting their way or the highway.

Guess who the constant is, last year, this year and beyond - regardless of the PM face? That's right - Bajwa.

They do. That's one of the points of the ISPR, to do public relations.

 

[Markhor]

It's rather sad that some are now criticising the army because they stayed neutral in the IK NCM.

So the discrimination against the Bengalis, 1971 debacle, Kargil misadventure, Mehrangate, abductions and murder of journalists/political opponents, complicity in drone programme and nurturing militant groups who would later turn their guns on the Pakistani people didn't do it for you ?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Agreed something was cooking in the night, not denying that. But why can't you for a change realise that there is a possibility that this chaos in courts happened last night because someone started a rumour? Given the media biasness why are you discounting the fact that a rumour would have spread like wildfire and everyone kicked into action including SC and IHC.

If IK infact did try to remove Gen Bajwa then where is that letter of dismissal or removal?

I'm just stunned that we are quick to blame it on IK and be part of the disinformation network. The guy himself admitted that he didn't do anything like that but let's not take his direct words and let's believe the biased media here. Enough stupidity?

IK has a lot of respect for the common soldiers, and the Army as a institution. As we all should. And he has never criticized them publicly as PM.

However look at this:

1 - Someone had enough fear that IK would sack Bajwa that they petitioned the court to open in the middle of the night to prevent the sacking of Bajwa.

2 - Media was reporting that a high ranking official would be sacked. Their had been reports for weeks that this might happen. And as vile as he is Aamir Liaqat said this IK had told him that he planned to remove Bajwa. He was a PTI MNA at the time.

3 - PTI had said they had more surprise's.

4 - The home of PTI's digital team head was raided in the middle of night.

5 - The BBC Urdu report on IK trying to sack Bajwa.

6 - When Dawn Leaks happened Nawaz and Shabaaz denied it. Nawaz gave vague hints at what Bajwa did, however it was only when Nawaz was out of the country did he start trashing Bajwa publicly.

7 - IK's comments in a conflict of good and evil only animals are neutral. Most took it to mean that he was asking the Army to interfere to save his govt. However what if he meant the Army had cut a deal with PDM and they are siding with evil.

8 - If a deal has been cut with PDM, too risky to openly accuse Bajwa.


Anyway its not the Army that should be criticized. The problem is the current COAS and his cronies and not the Army as a whole.

 

[Bewal Express]

It's rather sad that some are now criticising the army because they stayed neutral in the IK NCM.

So the discrimination against the Bengalis, 1971 debacle, Kargil misadventure, Mehrangate, abductions and murder of journalists/political opponents, complicity in drone programme and nurturing militant groups who would later turn their guns on the Pakistani people didn't do it for you ?

They didn't stay neutral. They knew the threat and backed criminals. That isn't neutral

 

[Bewal Express]

IK has a lot of respect for the common soldiers, and the Army as a institution. As we all should. And he has never criticized them publicly as PM.

However look at this:

1 - Someone had enough fear that IK would sack Bajwa that they petitioned the court to open in the middle of the night to prevent the sacking of Bajwa.

2 - Media was reporting that a high ranking official would be sacked. Their had been reports for weeks that this might happen. And as vile as he is Aamir Liaqat said this IK had told him that he planned to remove Bajwa. He was a PTI MNA at the time.

3 - PTI had said they had more surprise's.

4 - The home of PTI's digital team head was raided in the middle of night.

5 - The BBC Urdu report on IK trying to sack Bajwa.

6 - When Dawn Leaks happened Nawaz and Shabaaz denied it. Nawaz gave vague hints at what Bajwa did, however it was only when Nawaz was out of the country did he start trashing Bajwa publicly.

7 - IK's comments in a conflict of good and evil only animals are neutral. Most took it to mean that he was asking the Army to interfere to save his govt. However what if he meant the Army had cut a deal with PDM and they are siding with evil.

8 - If a deal has been cut with PDM, too risky to openly accuse Bajwa.


Anyway its not the Army that should be criticized. The problem is the current COAS and his cronies and not the Army as a whole.

Watch Imran Riazs video. He was with IK at the time he was supposed to sack Bajwa. I think he should have done it

 

[Major]

It's rather sad that some are now criticising the army because they stayed neutral in the IK NCM.

So the discrimination against the Bengalis, 1971 debacle, Kargil misadventure, Mehrangate, abductions and murder of journalists/political opponents, complicity in drone programme and nurturing militant groups who would later turn their guns on the Pakistani people didn't do it for you ?

Exactly this.

They turn anti army when they stopped getting its support.

In future if the army gives them support theyw would again be happy and wouldnt care about army meddling in civilian politics.

This govt passed ordimamce where you cant talk against army on social media...

Anyways, some pti cult fans are trying to do a protest with no sar pao. If they really want to protest nos is the time to march in rawalpindi

 

[Bewal Express]

Exactly this.

They turn anti army when they stopped getting its support.

In future if the army gives them support theyw would again be happy and wouldnt care about army meddling in civilian politics.

This govt passed ordimamce where you cant talk against army on social media...

Anyways, some pti cult fans are trying to do a protest with no sar pao. If they really want to protest nos is the time to march in rawalpindi

We support an army that isn't in bed with criminals. We are patriotic people, we are the children of soldiers and when they got attacked by traitors we defended the army. We will have an army chief saluting a criminal, if that is the case why have 1000s of Shaheeds laid down their lives.

 

[Savak]

That story about Bajwa, Nadeem Anjum physically man handling IK is garbage. The likes of Imran Khan Riaz, Arshad Sharif, Dr Moed Pirzada, Fareeha Idrees were in the PM house at that time and would have witnessed or heard about it.

 

[Major]

We support an army that isn't in bed with criminals. We are patriotic people, we are the children of soldiers and when they got attacked by traitors we defended the army. We will have an army chief saluting a criminal, if that is the case why have 1000s of Shaheeds laid down their lives.

Yeh yeh i get the mumbo jambu.

So the basic point is you guys would never protest against the army for indulging in civilian politics right?

 

[Major]

That story about Bajwa, Nadeem Anjum physically man handling IK is garbage. The likes of Imran Khan Riaz, Arshad Sharif, Dr Moed Pirzada, Fareeha Idrees were in the PM house at that time and would have witnessed or heard about it.

Oh man i can imagine all three fighting

Btw who leaked this news or msde this news?

 

[Kaddy]

Just imagine Bajwa will be saluting a money launderer.

So what.

Army is way more corrupt than these politicians.

 

[mazkhan]

If there was a fight ik would knock bajwa spark out .

 

[Clueless]

If there was a fight ik would knock bajwa spark out .

Lol ab to sab kuch dekh sun liya bhai!!

 

[cricketjoshila]

That story about Bajwa, Nadeem Anjum physically man handling IK is garbage. The likes of Imran Khan Riaz, Arshad Sharif, Dr Moed Pirzada, Fareeha Idrees were in the PM house at that time and would have witnessed or heard about it.

It has been reported by multiple sources.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Watch Imran Riazs video. He was with IK at the time he was supposed to sack Bajwa. I think he should have done it

Just watched it. He said the story was false the BBC one. Did not say anything about whether he thinks Army was part of the conspiracy to get rid of him. At least not in that video.

And i agree he should have fired him.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He is the that brigadier from safeena and addy's space network <a href="https://t.co/SvoVYYZ9YU">https://t.co/SvoVYYZ9YU</a></p>— Aamir (@RantingGareeb) <a href="https://twitter.com/RantingGareeb/status/1513228107444072454?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

It has been reported by multiple sources.

All multiple sources are sourcing from one original source and they themselves are fairly discredited.

It's not some Bollywood movie going on.

 

[Bewal Express]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He is the that brigadier from safeena and addy's space network <a href="https://t.co/SvoVYYZ9YU">https://t.co/SvoVYYZ9YU</a></p>— Aamir (@RantingGareeb) <a href="https://twitter.com/RantingGareeb/status/1513228107444072454?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The lower ranks are angry with Bajwa and his ilk. We, the supporters of our army are angry at the betrayal.

 

[Bewal Express]

It has been reported by multiple sources.

It was rubbish. None of these minions would dare touch a patriotic PM.

 

[Extra_Cover]

It has been reported by multiple sources.

Mate there were 5-10 reputable journalist in PM House with IK from 8pm yesterday when this incident was alleged to be happening. Are you suggesting each of these independent journalists are lying? Or some fake news is supposedly correct?