The Slow Decline of Azhar Ali

[Junaids]

We have all seen Azhar Ali struggle for Pakistan outside Asia since he officially passed the age of 33 in February 2018.

He is generally supported by Misbah-ul-Haq's supporters, who view criticism of Azhar as criticism of themselves. They say things like "he has only played 8 Tests outside Asia in that time".

Well that's true. But he has also played 16 First Class matches for Somerset in that time too, and put together we see a pattern across 24 matches and 45 red ball innings of a man who can't cope with red ball cricket outside Asia any more.

Here are the stats, both the headline numbers and the detailed breakdown:

Azhar Ali outside Asia since his 33rd birthday

8 Tests in 4 series, 16 innings, 0 not outs, 0 hundreds, 1 fifty, 15 out of 16 innings scores under 50, Highest score 50.
194 runs in 8 Tests at an average of 12.12

16 matches for Somerset across 2 seasons, 29 innings, 3 not outs, 1 hundred, 5 fifties, 23 out of 29 innings scores under 50, Highest score 125.
746 runs in 16 domestic First Class matches at an average of 28.69.


24 matches across 4 seasons.
1 century
6 fifties
38 innings under 50.

How much more evidence is required that this previously excellent batsman can no longer cope with red ball cricket outside Asia?

 

[viveks]

Are there any replacement options?

 

[Junaids]

Are there any replacement options?

Are there any options who wouldn't average more than 12.12 in the last 4 series outside Asia?

 

[Junaids]

Possibly most alarming, in his 8 Tests outside Asia he only averages surviving 31.63 deliveries per innings.

Consider this direct comparison of 3 Pakistan batsmen outside Asia since Azhar Ali's 33rd birthday:

Azhar Ali: average score 12.12, average survival 32 balls.
Shan Masood: average score 38.40, average survival 76 balls.
Shadab Khan: average score 40.60, average survival 82 balls.

 

[viveks]

Are there any options who wouldn't average more than 12.12 in the last 4 series outside Asia?

All I'm saying that it's going to be difficult to straight up replace someone with an overall good record who has been playing for many years without having someone else in mind, in most teams much less Pakistan who haven't been blessed in the batting department. Granted, it would be a mistake to not already be testing new options

 

[viveks]

All I'm saying that it's going to be difficult to straight up replace someone with an overall good record who has been playing for many years without having someone else in mind, in most teams much less Pakistan who haven't been blessed in the batting department. Granted, it would be a mistake to not already be testing new options

Obviously making him captain at this stage seems to have been a bad idea

 

[Square Drive]

Are there any replacement options?

Move Babar, Shafiq, and Haris up one spot and play Saud/Saad at 6. They've been waiting for years now. As has Salahuddin, who is nearly 30 now.

We can also fast-track Haider into the side and start him at 6, before ultimately moving him into the top-order, as he's clearly ready for international cricket.

Then there's also Zeeshan Malik.

So in terms of of options, we have plenty.

Too bad Azhar is going nowhere though, at least for the next year or so.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Possibly most alarming, in his 8 Tests outside Asia he only averages surviving 31.63 deliveries per innings.

Consider this direct comparison of 3 Pakistan batsmen outside Asia since Azhar Ali's 33rd birthday:

Azhar Ali: average score 12.12, average survival 32 balls.
Shan Masood: average score 38.40, average survival 76 balls.
Shadab Khan: average score 40.60, average survival 82 balls.

Don’t think Shadab is a fair comparison as he faces the old ball. However, I agree with your points as a whole

 

[zain7077]

Possibly most alarming, in his 8 Tests outside Asia he only averages surviving 31.63 deliveries per innings.

Consider this direct comparison of 3 Pakistan batsmen outside Asia since Azhar Ali's 33rd birthday:

Azhar Ali: average score 12.12, average survival 32 balls.
Shan Masood: average score 38.40, average survival 76 balls.
Shadab Khan: average score 40.60, average survival 82 balls.

Hi Junaids, I really enjoy reading your posts and was wondering about your opinion on Babar Azam. Do you feel that if he keeps on improving he could go on to be the best ever batsman from Pakistan and the worlds best batsman in a few years? Especially, considering that Kohli, Smith, Williamson etc will have age related decline outside Asia that happens after 32 as you have mentioned before.
Will appreciate a response.

Thanks.

 

[Junaids]

Hi Junaids, I really enjoy reading your posts and was wondering about your opinion on Babar Azam. Do you feel that if he keeps on improving he could go on to be the best ever batsman from Pakistan and the worlds best batsman in a few years? Especially, considering that Kohli, Smith, Williamson etc will have age related decline outside Asia that happens after 32 as you have mentioned before.
Will appreciate a response.

Thanks.

Thanks for the kind words.

Ratings and rankings generally are always 12-18 months out of date, and lag behind real events. They recognise past accomplishments a little too much. That’s why people were slow to see the decline of Azhar Ali!

Babar Azam already is the world’s best batsman. Only Kohli comes close - but he failed badly in New Zealand and has a chequered history in England.

Steve Smith has never been the same since Archer hit him, and was demolished by the slow bouncers of Neil Wagner.

Kane Williamson has played too much white ball cricket and simply takes stupid risks outside off-stump.

I rate Babar highest, Kohli second and Stokes third at present.

 

[zain7077]

Thanks for the kind words.

Ratings and rankings generally are always 12-18 months out of date, and lag behind real events. They recognise past accomplishments a little too much. That’s why people were slow to see the decline of Azhar Ali!

Babar Azam already is the world’s best batsman. Only Kohli comes close - but he failed badly in New Zealand and has a chequered history in England.

Steve Smith has never been the same since Archer hit him, and was demolished by the slow bouncers of Neil Wagner.

Kane Williamson has played too much white ball cricket and simply takes stupid risks outside off-stump.

I rate Babar highest, Kohli second and Stokes third at present.

Thanks a Lot, I hope this break in play doesn't hold him back too much as he really seemed to have figured out his game. I also remember you mentioning in a post in 'Will Babar Azam ever make it i test cricket' or something along those lines that Steve Waugh also struggled initially but these batsman figure out how they get out and become unstoppable So I'm hopeful he will be just as good post lockdown and stay the best for at least half a decade?

Also, what are your thoughts on Marnus Labuschagne

 

[Junaids]

Thanks a Lot, I hope this break in play doesn't hold him back too much as he really seemed to have figured out his game. I also remember you mentioning in a post in 'Will Babar Azam ever make it i test cricket' or something along those lines that Steve Waugh also struggled initially but these batsman figure out how they get out and become unstoppable So I'm hopeful he will be just as good post lockdown and stay the best for at least half a decade?

Also, what are your thoughts on Marnus Labuschagne

For me, Labuschagne is the second coming of Steve Waugh.

He’s not especially gifted as a batsman, but he has a ferocious hunger for cricket and wants to learn and make himself a better batsman.

Like Steve Smith he’s not got the personality to be a good captain. But I see him as being a man like Alastair Cook or Steve Waugh or Steve Smith who just wants to bat and bat, and as soon as he learned what shots NOT to play he became a top, top batsman.

 

[Faizhassan]

Its not a slow decline, ever since Younis's retirement, he has not been able to raise his game. Also, he was not a match defining or series defining player. He only has one gear, and thats what the problem is. Comparing him with Younis, he knew how to accelerate and the longer Younis's innings went, the more game would have been out of hand of the opposition.

 

[Markhor]

Despite Azhar's form nosediving and looking a shell of a batsman, PCB still appointed him as Test captain !

Azhar has no business in the side anymore.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Are there any options who wouldn't average more than 12.12 in the last 4 series outside Asia?

Maybe shift Babar at 3, Haris Sohail at 4, Fawad Alam at 5 and so and so forth

 

[Shoaibbtt]

He's another jobber so he is.

 

[BoomBoomCricket]

Got a century in a thumping win in his 2nd last Test innings. Put on 75 for the opening wicket at the Gabba. In the other innings in Australia, captaining a losing team in the field after getting smashed about by Warner was taking its toll. Been in the runs in the revamped Quaid E Azam Trophy. He's led Pakistan to consecutive Test wins. Form is temporary and class is permanent.

 

[Savak]

Got a century in a thumping win in his 2nd last Test innings. Put on 75 for the opening wicket at the Gabba. In the other innings in Australia, captaining a losing team in the field after getting smashed about by Warner was taking its toll. Been in the runs in the revamped Quaid E Azam Trophy. He's led Pakistan to consecutive Test wins. Form is temporary and class is permanent.

His average has dropped from 48 to 42 in the last 2 years. His class or lack of is indeed permanent

 

[Junaids]

Got a century in a thumping win in his 2nd last Test innings. Put on 75 for the opening wicket at the Gabba. In the other innings in Australia, captaining a losing team in the field after getting smashed about by Warner was taking its toll. Been in the runs in the revamped Quaid E Azam Trophy. He's led Pakistan to consecutive Test wins. Form is temporary and class is permanent.

In five consecutive Tests in South Africa and Australia in 2019 here is Azhar Ali’s full list of scores:
36
0
2
6
0
15
39
5
9
9

5 Tests
10 Innings
121 runs
0 fifties
0 hundreds
Average 12.10

At least he’s consistent.

In his previous two series outside Asia against England and the might of Ireland he scored 73 runs in 6 innings at an average of 12.17!

 

[Asifnow]

It's true that Ali is probably closer to the end of his career than the beginning but having a stable captain is important right now so as an interim captain, I think he could stay a series or two more, while Babar develops further.

The key in this time is to develops Imam, Fakhar, Shan, Abid and other new batsmen to be part of the Pakistan top order, come the end of this hopefully interim phase. Again, the only way these guys can develop is if they are given time in the top order, and maybe Ali can be rotated in some of the games, further helping Babar with his captaincy.

 

[UP]

When was he at his peak? One of the most useless batsman ever produced by Pakistan.

 

[Abdullah719]

When was he at his peak? One of the most useless batsman ever produced by Pakistan.

2014-17, when he averaged almost 55.

 

[Rayyman]

Move Babar, Shafiq, and Haris up one spot and play Saud/Saad at 6. They've been waiting for years now. As has Salahuddin, who is nearly 30 now.

We can also fast-track Haider into the side and start him at 6, before ultimately moving him into the top-order, as he's clearly ready for international cricket.

Then there's also Zeeshan Malik.

So in terms of of options, we have plenty.

Too bad Azhar is going nowhere though, at least for the next year or so.

Definitely Saud Shakeel. He is a great youngster.

I’d play a top 6 of:
Abid, Shan, Babar, Haris, Asad, Saud

Although I don’t like Abid Ali. Imran Butt should get a chance over him.

 

[BoomBoomCricket]

Azhar silenced his critics with a century against Sri Lanka in December.

3 30s and 1 100 in 7 Test innings since becoming Captain.
Leading his side to back to back wins on home soil by comprehensive margins.

He's done alright.

 

[Rayyman]

Leading his side to back to back wins on home soil by comprehensive margins.
.

Babar is definitely the leader of the batting lineup

 

[sweep_shot]

Azhar Ali definitely declined a lot. He was one of the best openers in the world at one point but has faded away since then.

 

[Junaids]

It's true that Ali is probably closer to the end of his career than the beginning but having a stable captain is important right now so as an interim captain, I think he could stay a series or two more, while Babar develops further.

The key in this time is to develops Imam, Fakhar, Shan, Abid and other new batsmen to be part of the Pakistan top order, come the end of this hopefully interim phase. Again, the only way these guys can develop is if they are given time in the top order, and maybe Ali can be rotated in some of the games, further helping Babar with his captaincy.

He averaged 12.17 outside Asia in 2018.

He averaged 12.10 outside Asia in 2019 and 2020.

That is certainly a "stable" pattern.

 

[sshakir411]

I respect his work ethic and sincere efforts but I still can’t get over the fact that a top order batsman can take 3 days to score a useless double hundred. Probably the only double hundred I’ve witnessed that resulted in a loss.

 

[hitthestump]

When was he at his peak? One of the most useless batsman ever produced by Pakistan.

How on earth do you justify this ridiculous post? It would be nice to have a balanced and objective discussion without people becoming dramatic all the time.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Instead of endless criticism and beating on a man when he's down I'd like to hear some solutions. Name one player who could take his place at No.3 and deliver the way he has in the past in home and foreign conditions. And don't say Babar Azam because he's already in the team.

People love to criticize but when it comes to offering clear cut solutions no one ever seems to have any. Azhar Ali is the fifth highest run scorer for Pakistan in Tests ever. Think of all the great names that have represented Pakistan and have not scored nearly as many runs. He didn't get there by being average, mediocre or inconsistent.

Quite honestly, the thinking of certain people befuddles me at times. You guys act like we are Australia or India. Look at our domestic structure, our grass-roots structure. Is there even any structure to begin with? We are atleast 10 years behind the rest of the cricketing world in this regard and if this almost non-existent structure can produce even one Azhar Ali then you all should be grateful.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They say one of the factors that makes evident the quality of a team is their bench-strength. What is Pakistan's bench-strength exactly? Besides Fawad Alam who somehow never manages to get a chance despite under-achievers like Asad and Haris getting nods; Pakistan has no bench strength to speak of.

In bowling our fall-back guy is Imran Khan. The less said about him the better. In batting there is literally no one other than Fawad. Nor is there anyone in domestic cricket who has been consistent for a significant period of time to merit a selection.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Definitely Saud Shakeel. He is a great youngster.

I’d play a top 6 of:
Abid, Shan, Babar, Haris, Asad, Saud

Although I don’t like Abid Ali. Imran Butt should get a chance over him.

Saud Shakeel can't even make the starting line-up of his QeA trophy side and people talk about him here as the second coming of Bradman. He's a good talent but doesn't seem ready for test cricket by any stretch. Imran Butt has had one good season. Not nearly enough to guarantee a place in the side.

 

[GreenKhan]

When was he at his peak? One of the most useless batsman ever produced by Pakistan.

Comments like these make me realise that some posters have zero knowledge and maximum blind hatred for a certain player .

A disgusting post to say the least .

 

[coy0607]

Azhar's been a total scrub over the last couple of years. And he's going to be worse when he gets back. He'll be without any cricket for 6+ months, and at his age, he won't be able to get into match form quickly.

Should've retired 2 years ago

 

[Junaids]

Instead of endless criticism and beating on a man when he's down I'd like to hear some solutions. Name one player who could take his place at No.3 and deliver the way he has in the past in home and foreign conditions.

But that is the whole point, isn't it?

Azhar Ali was excellent in the past, and until he started to lose his consistency I never argued for his exclusion.

But the past is the past. He is incapable of performing outside Asia now.

Even the best players reach the point of no return. Just because Younis and Misbah were freaks who could perform into their forties does not mean that we should assume that Azhar can too, because he clearly cannot.

Until Azhar reached the age of 33 I would have preferred to retain Azhar Ali and replace the inconsistent Asad Shafiq. But he is not just older, he is less fit than Shafiq and he can't contribute in the field like Shafiq can at slip. And when you study their records outside Asia since Azhar turned 33 years of age:

Azhar Ali: Averages 12.12 outside Asia compared with 42.07 prior to February 2018.
Asad Shafiq: Averages 32.13 outside Asia compared with 35.23 prior to February 2018.

Asad Shafiq has barely declined at all and still contributes 64 runs per Test outside Asia (compared with 70 runs per test as a younger man).

Azhar Ali is no longer even of tailender quality outside Asia: he now contributes 24 runs per Test outside Asia compared with 84 runs per Test as a younger man.

It's all over for Azhar Ali.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

But that is the whole point, isn't it?

Azhar Ali was excellent in the past, and until he started to lose his consistency I never argued for his exclusion.

But the past is the past. He is incapable of performing outside Asia now.

Even the best players reach the point of no return. Just because Younis and Misbah were freaks who could perform into their forties does not mean that we should assume that Azhar can too, because he clearly cannot.

Until Azhar reached the age of 33 I would have preferred to retain Azhar Ali and replace the inconsistent Asad Shafiq. But he is not just older, he is less fit than Shafiq and he can't contribute in the field like Shafiq can at slip. And when you study their records outside Asia since Azhar turned 33 years of age:

Azhar Ali: Averages 12.12 outside Asia compared with 42.07 prior to February 2018.
Asad Shafiq: Averages 32.13 outside Asia compared with 35.23 prior to February 2018.

Asad Shafiq has barely declined at all and still contributes 64 runs per Test outside Asia (compared with 70 runs per test as a younger man).

Azhar Ali is no longer even of tailender quality outside Asia: he now contributes 24 runs per Test outside Asia compared with 84 runs per Test as a younger man.

It's all over for Azhar Ali.

Agreed that Azhar is past his prime, but is it worth dropping when there are no ready made youngsters as replacements and Shan Masood is inexperienced as captain? Shan has only just been able to guarantee his place in the side. Meanwhile, Babar is not ready for test captaincy. I would begin by removing Asad Shafiq by the end of this year and Azhar by the end of next year.

 

[Junaids]

Agreed that Azhar is past his prime, but is it worth dropping when there are no ready made youngsters as replacements and Shan Masood is inexperienced as captain? Shan has only just been able to guarantee his place in the side. Meanwhile, Babar is not ready for test captaincy. I would begin by removing Asad Shafiq by the end of this year and Azhar by the end of next year.

To be honest, this is what I would do:

OUTSIDE ASIA
1. Sami Aslam
2. Abid Ali
3. Shan Masood (capt)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq (for his final year)
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Ehsan Adil
10. Naseem Shah
11. Shaheen Shah Afridi

ON SPINNING TRACKS IN ASIA
1. Sami Aslam
2. Abid Ali
3. Shan Masood (capt)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq (for his final year)
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Zafar Gohar
9. Sajid Khan
10. Naseem Shah
11. Shaheen Shah Afridi

Reserves:
Imran Butt
Sajid Khan
Faheem Ashraf
Zeeshan Malik
Sameen Gul
Amad Butt

I'm not seeing the benefit of preferring Azhar Ali to Sami Aslam. I've already got two guys over 30 in the top three (Shan Masood and Abid Ali) so why do I need another?)

 

[MMHS]

I think, it was always expected that Azhar will decline with age. He was never that gifted but an extremely hardworking honest batsman who made it difficult to get him out - result, during his purple years he scored lots of runs though still painstakingly. Once he is at the wrong side of 30s, he is badly exposed. Still his grit took him to a three digit score against SRL, but if that series against ENG some how goes on, I am afraid he will be robbed by English seemers.

I think, the problem with Azhar is made more complicated by PCB itself. Being a senior batsman with very good numbers in recent past, Azhar deserved a little extra space from selectors - add to that the lack of suitable replacement at bench, I don’t think it’s unjustified to give Azhar few more games than he probably deserves now. But, PCB made a blunder by appointing him Captain, means he can’t be dropped now regardless of performance and PCT will have to carry him regardless of his numbers. Besides, he is occupying the most crucial spot of No. 3 - not performing here, not helping to develop another one either.

Many great captains stepped down before retirement and most of them played as normal team member for last few years of career to allow the next Captain to be groomed and indirectly allowing selectors also to drop him, if applicable - here Misbah has restricted himself by supporting Azhar’s appointment. Being a senior member, I don’t mind Azhar occupying one squad spot, then making playing XI is subject to performance but PCB made him a confirmed starter.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - “Babar Azam already is the world’s best batsman. Only Kohli comes close .....” really??? Enough time has passed since that post but I don’t see any reaction on that line, hence as a genuine fan of PCT & Babar, I had to question it; otherwise gullible PAK fans are here usually pampered by this one. This one actually takes a bigger cake than Mickey Arthur’s choice, based on talent .... but unfortunately again (for me), I first had to react on the click bait.

 

[Mueez]

Azhar should seriously think about retirement.

He’s had a decent career and is tarnishing his legacy by extending his playing days.

Nonetheless he’s been quite solid for us as an opener and I feel he shouldn’t bat at three in Test matches.

 

[Kroll]

Azhar should get booted as he's not retiring anytime soon after declaring "he wanted to play for many more years".

He can and no one should stop him but that should be in the local park or his back garden with his kids and their friends.

 

[Slog]

Are there any options who wouldn't average more than 12.12 in the last 4 series outside Asia?

that might be more of challenge than you seem to believe.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
If you asked me who has been the world’s best batsman over the last two years (since AB retired) then I would say Kohli.

If you went back a further couple of years I would say AB.

But if by “currently” you mean “in the last 12 months” then I can’t see past Babar Azam.

If not, I think only Labuschagne could surpass him - but he was a Reserve just 8 months ago.

 

[Junaids]

that might be more of challenge than you seem to believe.

Averaging 12.12 across 4 series and two years. Surviving an average of just 32 balls.

Let’s be honest here. Azhar Ali is an old-fashioned Non-Playing Captain, like the Lord or Nawab in a team a hundred years ago.

His numbers outside Asia since he was 32 - he’s 35 now - are the numbers of a night-watchman.

And that’s exactly what he is.

But Pakistan would be better served to select Misbah rather than Azhar. He’s significantly fitter, he’s a better catcher, and he’s probably still a much better batsman.

At least Misbah averaged 25 in SENA late in his career. That’s twice as much as poor Azhar Ali.

 

[Kroll]

Averaging 12.12 across 4 series and two years. Surviving an average of just 32 balls.

Let’s be honest here. Azhar Ali is an old-fashioned Non-Playing Captain, like the Lord or Nawab in a team a hundred years ago.

His numbers outside Asia since he was 32 - he’s 35 now - are the numbers of a night-watchman.

And that’s exactly what he is.

But Pakistan would be better served to select Misbah rather than Azhar. He’s significantly fitter, he’s a better catcher, and he’s probably still a much better batsman.

At least Misbah averaged 25 in SENA late in his career. That’s twice as much as poor Azhar Ali.

Ughh, no thanks! In their last tour of NZ and Aus together, Misbah averaged 22 in NZ and 12.67 in Aus, no better than a night watchman while Azhar managed 26.25 and 81.2 for the same.

Azhar still had a respectable England series that year, so no they wouldn't be better served by Misbah.

 

[Junaids]

Ughh, no thanks! In their last tour of NZ and Aus together, Misbah averaged 22 in NZ and 12.67 in Aus, no better than a night watchman while Azhar managed 26.25 and 81.2 for the same.

Azhar still had a respectable England series that year, so no they wouldn't be better served by Misbah.

Don’t panic, it was a joke!

But it was meant to illustrate that Azhar really is an ex-player now. Yes, he can still score a century on a dead Asian track against Sri Lanka or Bangladesh, but he’s a tailender as soon as Pakistan has to leave Asia.

He was even a tailender in Ireland!

 

[Shoaibbtt]

They say one of the factors that makes evident the quality of a team is their bench-strength. What is Pakistan's bench-strength exactly? Besides Fawad Alam who somehow never manages to get a chance despite under-achievers like Asad and Haris getting nods; Pakistan has no bench strength to speak of.

In bowling our fall-back guy is Imran Khan. The less said about him the better. In batting there is literally no one other than Fawad. Nor is there anyone in domestic cricket who has been consistent for a significant period of time to merit a selection.

I was getting excited to see Fawad play, it was especially stupid not to play him in Karachi seeing as how well he did there in the QeA trophy.

It's sad to think that Fawad will probably get shafted in the next series after this whole Coronavirus business ends just like Kashif Bhatti. Need to actually give someone a game without unreasonably dropping them.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Azhars been on decline for 2 years and 1 test hundred recently doesnt change that fact. He was a walking wicket in english county season and away from home in tests is nothing more then a gloryified tail ender at moment.

Sadly pakistan doesnt longterm planned in test cricket, he should have been slowly eased out of the team with a replacement brought in, instead the PCB made him captain. Which just gives him more free rope with failure and probably will be replaced by another failing senior as captain in future.

 

[Abdullah719]

I respect his work ethic and sincere efforts but I still can’t get over the fact that a top order batsman can take 3 days to score a useless double hundred. Probably the only double hundred I’ve witnessed that resulted in a loss.

He reached his double hundred in the 126th over. Without rain intervals, that would've been toward the start of the 2nd session on Day 2. His SR for that innings (56) was also comparatively higher than his usual output. It was a pretty good knock in tough conditions.

The Azhar of today is a completely different batsman, however. Has drastically fallen away from the standards he set during 2014-17.

 

[msb314]

He reached his double hundred in the 126th over. Without rain intervals, that would've been toward the start of the 2nd session on Day 2. His SR for that innings (56) was also comparatively higher than his usual output. It was a pretty good knock in tough conditions.

The Azhar of today is a completely different batsman, however. Has drastically fallen away from the standards he set during 2014-17.

To answer [MENTION=49505]sshakir411[/MENTION] - the double hundreds I am aware that had resulted in a loss are:
- Nathan Astle 222 vs England 2002
- Ricky Ponting 242 vs India 2003/04
- Virender Sehwag 201 vs Pakistan 2005
- Azhar Ali 205 vs Australia 2016/17

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I was getting excited to see Fawad play, it was especially stupid not to play him in Karachi seeing as how well he did there in the QeA trophy.

It's sad to think that Fawad will probably get shafted in the next series after this whole Coronavirus business ends just like Kashif Bhatti. Need to actually give someone a game without unreasonably dropping them.

He deserved to play in that match and the Pindi test against Bangladesh. Haris Sohail had been out of form in Tests for a significant period of time and there was little justification for his selection in the playing eleven.

Don't know why they do this to him. Bring him into the squad only to carry the drinks and warm the bench. It's absolutely ludicrous.

 

[sshakir411]

He reached his double hundred in the 126th over. Without rain intervals, that would've been toward the start of the 2nd session on Day 2. His SR for that innings (56) was also comparatively higher than his usual output. It was a pretty good knock in tough conditions.

The Azhar of today is a completely different batsman, however. Has drastically fallen away from the standards he set during 2014-17.

And the opposition went on to score 600+ after being put in to bat at day 3. So hardly a tough pitch to bat on. I agree there were rain intervals but if we’re taking about a great top order batsman....Azhar is far from one. Yes he’s been/was pretty good by our standards but it goes to show just how mediocre our standards are and there’s no point in using those stats to call someone a great player. As I said I respect his work ethic and efforts but his stats are inflated with innings that never won you anything or even gave his side a chance to win.

 

[sshakir411]

To answer [MENTION=49505]sshakir411[/MENTION] - the double hundreds I am aware that had resulted in a loss are:
- Nathan Astle 222 vs England 2002
- Ricky Ponting 242 vs India 2003/04
- Virender Sehwag 201 vs Pakistan 2005
- Azhar Ali 205 vs Australia 2016/17

You must’ve missed the “I’ve witnessed” in my post.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

But that is the whole point, isn't it?

Azhar Ali was excellent in the past, and until he started to lose his consistency I never argued for his exclusion.

But the past is the past. He is incapable of performing outside Asia now.

Even the best players reach the point of no return. Just because Younis and Misbah were freaks who could perform into their forties does not mean that we should assume that Azhar can too, because he clearly cannot.

Until Azhar reached the age of 33 I would have preferred to retain Azhar Ali and replace the inconsistent Asad Shafiq. But he is not just older, he is less fit than Shafiq and he can't contribute in the field like Shafiq can at slip. And when you study their records outside Asia since Azhar turned 33 years of age:

Azhar Ali: Averages 12.12 outside Asia compared with 42.07 prior to February 2018.
Asad Shafiq: Averages 32.13 outside Asia compared with 35.23 prior to February 2018.

Asad Shafiq has barely declined at all and still contributes 64 runs per Test outside Asia (compared with 70 runs per test as a younger man).

Azhar Ali is no longer even of tailender quality outside Asia: he now contributes 24 runs per Test outside Asia compared with 84 runs per Test as a younger man.

It's all over for Azhar Ali.

He's been out of form but to say his career is over so confidently. I dunno, sounds like you are making a major assumption. I would probably wait a year before making such a statement when Pakistan have toured England and New Zealand. But I guess that's just me.

 

[Junaids]

He's been out of form but to say his career is over so confidently. I dunno, sounds like you are making a major assumption. I would probably wait a year before making such a statement when Pakistan have toured England and New Zealand. But I guess that's just me.

Who in his mid-thirties gets a THIRD chance after averaging 12.17 away one season and 12.10 the next?

 

[Shoaibbtt]

He deserved to play in that match and the Pindi test against Bangladesh. Haris Sohail had been out of form in Tests for a significant period of time and there was little justification for his selection in the playing eleven.

Don't know why they do this to him. Bring him into the squad only to carry the drinks and warm the bench. It's absolutely ludicrous.

I definitely felt sad for him. Fact is that this isn't about cricket, but about someone's livelihood which Pakistan don't seem to care about. The fact is that Misbah because he knows all the current guys right now and he's mates with them it makes it unfair on the hard workers in domestic. To be honest not only Azhar Ali but Imam-ul-haq and Shan Masood deserved the boot, however they've been persisted with.

Justice will be brought when you bring in a chief selector who will play fair, my vote is for Younis Khan or Muhammad Yousaf.

 

[angrypathan]

You must’ve missed the “I’ve witnessed” in my post.

Watch more cricket then

 

[Titan24]

In last 2 years or so he has been struggling overall and there is not much doubt about it.

However, in the last 2-3 tests at home he looked decent with a century as well against Srl. Also not to forget he was doing exceptionally well in revamped QAE as well.

Thing is its a bit tricky scenario for PCB and just like fans they will be hoping that Azhar Ali can give 1-2 years with decent form.

As Babar Azam has just been appointed T20 captain and has captained total of 4 matches till now at international level and at the same time he has been appointed ODI captain. So I am not sure if he should be given test captaincy as well straight away.

Other options are Shan Masood and Asad Shafiq. Shan has just started to get himself going at test level so considering him will be called a blunt move and is not a straight forward option.

On the other hand Asad Shafiq himself have been an inconsistent player for a long time and just couldnt take his game to the next level which isnt something ideal for a captain when you want your team to push itself to the next level.

Sometimes situations do demand a blunt move but PCB will be hoping that its not soon that they will have to make any such call. I also doubt any thing is gonna change much atleast for a year as Pak has just won series against Srl and against BD (Depending upon whether the 2nd test match is gonna happen or not) and Azhar was in some runs. Yes Azhar's overall form especially away still remains a worry but I think he will be persisted with by the management for near future.

 

[sshakir411]

Watch more cricket then

I only watch pakistan games funnypathan bhai

 

[Abdullah719]

And the opposition went on to score 600+ after being put in to bat at day 3. So hardly a tough pitch to bat on. I agree there were rain intervals but if we’re taking about a great top order batsman....Azhar is far from one. Yes he’s been/was pretty good by our standards but it goes to show just how mediocre our standards are and there’s no point in using those stats to call someone a great player. As I said I respect his work ethic and efforts but his stats are inflated with innings that never won you anything or even gave his side a chance to win.

I get where you're coming from regarding that innings.

I personally rate Azhar's innings very highly despite what happened in the rest of the match for a few reasons, and I did watch the whole match - ball by ball.

During the first two days, there were rain intervals and lots of stop-start moments. He kept his composure despite all that whereas the other batsmen generally didn't.

On Day 1 and 2, the weather was generally very overcast. There was a lot of assistance for the pacers and they were moving the ball around a fair bit.

None of the batsmen were really settled on the first couple of days besides Azhar. It was only on Day 3 onwards when even Sohail Khan hit a fifty, that the batsmen looked to be somewhat at ease.

Lastly, Azhar was facing the Australian attack at home and they were several levels above what Pakistan's bowlers mustered. A stronger bowling lineup may have been able to get a better result.

I think that was a better innings than Asad's at Brisbane... but that's a topic for another day/thread

 

[Asifnow]

He averaged 12.17 outside Asia in 2018.

He averaged 12.10 outside Asia in 2019 and 2020.

That is certainly a "stable" pattern.

Pattern? I said stable captain lol

 

[Zaz]

Let’s be honest here. Azhar Ali is an old-fashioned Non-Playing Captain, like the Lord or Nawab in a team a hundred years

Lets not make things up

He may have been atrocious away from home but hes not a non playing captain Hes got a pretty decent record in last two years at home and in the uae avging 45 with two tons

His problems are major but all away from home Not at home

And over the next 2years if he doesnt get better he will be automatically be out

 

[Kroll]

And the opposition went on to score 600+ after being put in to bat at day 3. So hardly a tough pitch to bat on. I agree there were rain intervals but if we’re taking about a great top order batsman....Azhar is far from one. Yes he’s been/was pretty good by our standards but it goes to show just how mediocre our standards are and there’s no point in using those stats to call someone a great player. As I said I respect his work ethic and efforts but his stats are inflated with innings that never won you anything or even gave his side a chance to win.

One innings I will remember fondly is the UAE 3rd Test match vs Sri Lanka, 2014 in which Azhar lead an unlikely successful 4th innings chase for Pakistan to reach their target of 302 within the maximum 59 overs.

Although, Sarfraz and Misbah played a key role, Azhar was the main man scoring an un Azhar like 103 off 137 balls staying nearly till the end for a dramatic victory with 9 balls to spare. Thus saving the series and home record.

 

[Pakpak]

Almost same stats as Faf during the same period. Difference is Faf retired and we made this clown our captain.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Who in his mid-thirties gets a THIRD chance after averaging 12.17 away one season and 12.10 the next?

Yup. And I'd say he has deserved these chances, and a little bit of patience after the consistent performances he has churned out in preceding years. But ofcourse they are meaningless to people like you since they came 3-4 years ago. Only his slump means anything. The rest of his cricketing career can just be thrown out the window.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't think you are correct in your assessment of Shan Masood. He has improved leaps and bounds since returning and was comfortably our best batsman on testing wickets in South Africa, he showed character in Australia and finally cashed in on friendly pitches at home to hit two tons. If anything we should be glad that we have a stable, workable opening pair for once that can be given more chances in the future.

And I don't think Younis or Yousuf would be good for coaching gigs. Younis is very temperamental and has a history of issues and misgivings with the board. Whereas, Yousuf is known for being a vindictive and largely toxic personality behind the scenes

 

[sshakir411]

I get where you're coming from regarding that innings.

I personally rate Azhar's innings very highly despite what happened in the rest of the match for a few reasons, and I did watch the whole match - ball by ball.

During the first two days, there were rain intervals and lots of stop-start moments. He kept his composure despite all that whereas the other batsmen generally didn't.

On Day 1 and 2, the weather was generally very overcast. There was a lot of assistance for the pacers and they were moving the ball around a fair bit.

None of the batsmen were really settled on the first couple of days besides Azhar. It was only on Day 3 onwards when even Sohail Khan hit a fifty, that the batsmen looked to be somewhat at ease.

Lastly, Azhar was facing the Australian attack at home and they were several levels above what Pakistan's bowlers mustered. A stronger bowling lineup may have been able to get a better result.

I think that was a better innings than Asad's at Brisbane... but that's a topic for another day/thread

Agree on most points. Azhar is a one trick pony in that he applies the same formula to all his innings - block and hang around and then score runs when the bowlers wear out or lose patience. Theoretically it may sound fine to have a batsman like that upfront but Azhar as a batsman has not evolved.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

I don't think you are correct in your assessment of Shan Masood. He has improved leaps and bounds since returning and was comfortably our best batsman on testing wickets in South Africa, he showed character in Australia and finally cashed in on friendly pitches at home to hit two tons. If anything we should be glad that we have a stable, workable opening pair for once that can be given more chances in the future.

And I don't think Younis or Yousuf would be good for coaching gigs. Younis is very temperamental and has a history of issues and misgivings with the board. Whereas, Yousuf is known for being a vindictive and largely toxic personality behind the scenes

Shan was struggling for some time. He got ample opportunities but didn't cash in, but yes he is improving which is a good sign of hard work. Yea i agree no need to tinker with the opening pair.

Problem is there are no honest people in PCB and they won't select people based on merit. I just feel that friends/past colleagues should not be in upper management because the bias comes into play, which is why i don't think it's justified to make Misbah selector.