The tainted actions brigade : Saeed Ajmal & Mohammad Hafeez

[MenInG]

In Saeed Ajmal's case, his action was marked as wrong and he made an effort to fix it and was never called again.

Mohammad Hafeez, on the other hand, has been called three times which shows that he has failed to learn his lessons.

Is it the case that Hafeez has seen what happened to Ajmal when he changed his action and is unwilling to change his action and insisting that he is right?

What will happen to his use to the team if he changes completely?

 

[MenInG]

I am convinced that Hafeez will not change his problem action as Ajmal example is for him to see

 

[babajee]

I am convinced that Hafeez will not change his problem action as Ajmal example is for him to see

Hafeez is a plain cheat who knows exactly when he is and isn’t chucking

 

[WengerOut]

Hafeez is a plain cheat who knows exactly when he is and isn’t chucking

What is the difference between Hafeez and Ajmal?

 

[babajee]

What is the difference between Hafeez and Ajmal?

One actually stopped “chucking” after his action being found illegal.

 

[WengerOut]

One actually stopped “chucking” after his action being found illegal.

As far as I know , Ajmal was reported in 2009 and 2014.

 

[babajee]

As far as I know , Ajmal was reported in 2009 and 2014.

And Ajmal was cleared in 2009 so what are you saying

 

[WengerOut]

Does that mean that he started chucking after that ?

 

[Azeem Zafar]

Ajmal did not chucked all the way through his career, I am sick of people saying this all the time. Go to youtube, find his bowling videos after 2009 & play in slowest speed to analyze his action, he was not chucking it & his flex looked well within the range. Though I totally agree that he was chucking in 2014 vs SL and may be a series or one before that too, extreme workload could be the reason for that. he was regularly bowling 25+ overs/day in test matches at that time.

 

[WengerOut]

Ajmal did not chucked all the way through his career, I am sick of people saying this all the time. Go to youtube, find his bowling videos after 2009 & play in slowest speed to analyze his action, he was not chucking it & his flex looked well within the range. Though I totally agree that he was chucking in 2014 vs SL and may be a series or one before that too, extreme workload could be the reason for that. he was regularly bowling 25+ overs/day in test matches at that time.

So to manage the workload he chucked as you said. So he cheated. Whether he does it one time or 100 times , he is a cheat because he gets undue advantage over other bowlers and also not fair to the batsmen.

And I so believe he always had a dodgy action and don't believe he started chucking just like that. A bowler should be comfortable in his action and he was only comfortable in his chucking action.

 

[Madplayer]

So to manage the workload he chucked as you said. So he cheated. Whether he does it one time or 100 times , he is a cheat because he gets undue advantage over other bowlers and also not fair to the batsmen.

And I so believe he always had a dodgy action and don't believe he started chucking just like that. A bowler should be comfortable in his action and he was only comfortable in his chucking action.

I think you should acknowledge the fact that many bowlers have actions which cause a drag in action when the bowler doesnt get enough rest. The fatigue causes the arm to bend more than it should. Doesnt necessarily mean the bowler is doing it deliberately. Yes, even such bowlers who dont chuck deliberately should be banned and that is what happened with Ajmal after which he tried to remodel the action but failed

 

[KyoOne]

So to manage the workload he chucked as you said. So he cheated. Whether he does it one time or 100 times , he is a cheat because he gets undue advantage over other bowlers and also not fair to the batsmen.

And I so believe he always had a dodgy action and don't believe he started chucking just like that. A bowler should be comfortable in his action and he was only comfortable in his chucking action.

Your action can get tempered with overbowling. He sent down the most deliveries for any bowler between 2011 and 2014.

Calling it as "deliberate" is idiocy.

Only instance when deliberate chucking was done with considerable proof (the bowler himself accepted it was deliberate) when Ashwin was chucking early 2014

 

[KyoOne]

I am convinced that Hafeez will not change his problem action as Ajmal example is for him to see

He also has Narine's example, of someone who remained equally potent with a remodelled action.

You're reading too much into his third transgression. No international bowler deliberately chucks

 

[Ellipsism]

He also has Narine's example, of someone who remained equally potent with a remodelled action.

You're reading too much into his third transgression. No international bowler deliberately chucks

Then explain why Hafeez started bowling 70 km/h pies in the ODI following his action being reported?

 

[AAli98]

These 2 have been chucking, but to this day I dont understand why the following have not been mentioned in the chucking category:

McGrath
Lee
gillespie
Steyn

Theyv bowled the odd delivery with the bent arm.

 

[KyoOne]

Then explain why Hafeez started bowling 70 km/h pies in the ODI following his action being reported?

Which pies?

He was equally (if not more) effective in last 3 ODIs and t20s against Sri Lanka, with a more roundarm action, as he was in the two ODIs held before those (following which he got reported).

 

[Ellipsism]

Which pies?

He was equally (if not more) effective in last 3 ODIs and t20s against Sri Lanka, with a more roundarm action, as he was in the two ODIs held before those (following which he got reported).

You clearly didn't watch the third ODI... skim through the commentary thread and you'll understand exactly what I mean.

 

[WengerOut]

Your action can get tempered with overbowling. He sent down the most deliveries for any bowler between 2011 and 2014.

Calling it as "deliberate" is idiocy.

Only instance when deliberate chucking was done with considerable proof (the bowler himself accepted it was deliberate) when Ashwin was chucking early 2014

Could you care to share the source about Ashwin?

 

[WengerOut]

Simply shooting into air by calling out legends for chucking is pretty childish. It is true that Harbhajan , Ajmal , Akhtar etc had dodgy actions .

 

[MenInG]

Thread is about Hafeez/Ajmal.

 

[AAli98]

Shooting in the air???

Heres ur legend Dravid

"I think the ICC has a rule in place," Dravid said. "They reviewed a lot of the old footage and they found out that the elbow bent to about 15 degrees was pretty normal and that is what everyone was doing. Glenn McGrath had a slight bend in his elbow up to 15 degrees. I am not suggesting that Glenn McGrath was chucking. They have a system in place and what I am glad about is that they are really enforcing it strictly.

Obviously Dravid aint going to blatantly say it.make what u want of it!!

 

[the Great Khan]

only Pakistanis chuck. Everyone else doesnt. The extra scrutiny on hafeez is a disgrace!!

 

[Mamoon]

Ajmal claimed that he has a problem with his elbow which is why he is unable to bowl within the 15 degree limit. He said that the source of that problem was a childhood car accident. We both belong to the same field - please explain how after getting banned, he was able to bowl with a legal action? He did not undergo any surgical procedure or physiotherapy.

Now unless someone performed black magic on his elbow, it is pretty clear that he was dishonest about his condition and lied to get away with chucking. In addition, he also wore long sleeves while bowling and short sleeves while batting, which was very dodgy.

Ajmal is not the saint you are making him to be.

 

[DRsohail]

Ajmal claimed that he has a problem with his elbow which is why he is unable to bowl within the 15 degree limit. He said that the source of that problem was a childhood car accident. We both belong to the same field - please explain how after getting banned, he was able to bowl with a legal action? He did not undergo any surgical procedure or physiotherapy.

Now unless someone performed black magic on his elbow, it is pretty clear that he was dishonest about his condition and lied to get away with chucking. In addition, he also wore long sleeves while bowling and short sleeves while batting, which was very dodgy.

Ajmal is not the saint you are making him to be.

No bro we are not here to claim such things,icc should have called him earlier if the problem was there.and should have not cleared him when he was chucking.the problem lies on the part of ICC not only him.u have never been critic of ICC but blaming him is not justice served.
many players have been lying in the field direclty on indirectly like one of the great SACHIN has been involved n mnay incidents.like not going after edging the ball and other story u know better but no one calls them a cheat.
Here the blame solely lies on the part of ICC and they are allowing another chucker a chance so what can i say.

 

[Mamoon]

No bro we are not here to claim such things,icc should have called him earlier if the problem was there.and should have not cleared him when he was chucking.the problem lies on the part of ICC not only him.u have never been critic of ICC but blaming him is not justice served.
many players have been lying in the field direclty on indirectly like one of the great SACHIN has been involved n mnay incidents.like not going after edging the ball and other story u know better but no one calls them a cheat.
Here the blame solely lies on the part of ICC and they are allowing another chucker a chance so what can i say.

Refusing to walk after edging the ball or ball-tampering etc. are minor crimes, compared to bowling with an illegal action using an accident as a pretext.

The ICC should definitely have called him earlier - they were too soft on chuckers like him. However, Ajmal is not as innocent as you think.

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] i have never and will never defend chucking but problem is huge and not that simple as we say.
ICC should be strict and make the rule that even umpire can stop someone from bowling in the match if they think the action is dodgy.

 

[DRsohail]

Refusing to walk after edging the ball or ball-tampering etc. are minor crimes, compared to bowling with an illegal action using an accident as a pretext.

The ICC should definitely have called him earlier. They were too soft on chuckers like him. However, Ajmal is not as innocent as you think.

so why was ICC soft???? and i will say in both ways u win game for ur country by doing illegal thing.for me both are crimes and i will call the first ones to be even bigger because it takes away the gentleman word from the cricket.Sorry brother know u have been very much honest so far i have seen of you but one should not be that disrespectful a like some of the posters here have been.

 

[Mamoon]

so why was ICC soft???? and i will say in both ways u win game for ur country by doing illegal thing.for me both are crimes and i will call the first ones to be even bigger because it takes away the gentleman word from the cricket.Sorry brother know u have been very much honest so far i have seen of you but one should not be thet disrespectful and personal like some of the posters here have been.

Crime is crime but not all crimes are equal. In cricketing terms, match-fixing is worse than chucking but chucking is worse than ball-tampering or not walking after getting dismissed. I don't know why the ICC were slow off their when it comes to dealing with chuckers.

I'm glad that the Big 3 takeover happened in 2014 because that is what triggered the clampdown on these javelin throwers.

 

[WengerOut]

Umpires gives out or not out . It is not dependent on whether batsman want to stay or not. Walking is a personal thing. Not doing so is not a technical crime while moral side can be argued. If moral side is taken , then there are many things like sledging n all for consideration. Chucking is a technical crime . Full stop.

 

[DRsohail]

Crime is crime but not all crimes are equal. In cricketing terms, match-fixing is worse than chucking but chucking is worse than ball-tampering or not walking after getting dismissed. I don't know why the ICC were slow off their when it comes to dealing with chuckers.

I'm glad that the Big 3 takeover happened in 2014 because that is what triggered the clampdown on these javelin throwers.

Thats the problem and one thing i will suggest here that every off spinner should get their action checked ,and this should be made mandotry if it is not that expensive for ICC to get doubts out and equity prevail.
Again dont take my suggestion in negative sense.it will hepl the game in the long run.

 

[Mamoon]

Thats the problem and one thing i will suggest here that every off spinner should get their action checked ,and this should be made mandotry if it is not that expensive for ICC to get doubts out and equity prevail.
Again dont take my suggestion in negative sense.it will hepl the game in the long run.

No point in testing spinners whose actions are not deemed suspect by the umpires. The naked eye is a good judge, and the umpires have had an excellent track-record. Almost 95% of the bowlers that have been reported have had illegal actions.

 

[DRsohail]

No point in testing spinners whose actions are not deemed suspect by the umpires. The naked eye is a good judge, and the umpires have had an excellent track-record. Almost 95% of the bowlers that have been reported have had illegal actions.

yes but u are just going by positive predictive value here,,,,for how many time chuckers go on to bowel before they are being reported.Thats why do it as early as possible to prevent any damage.

 

[CricFan2012]

What is the difference between Hafeez and Ajmal?

no difference, both cheats that lied and gave Pakistan an unfair advantage in matches

 

[Major]

Is it me or is he throwing the ball here?? Hafeez

 

[Ummii]

This is not the first time he is chucking in this competition

 

[volcyz]

Is it me or is he throwing the ball here?? Hafeez

I already called out Hafeez’s blatant chucking but like usuL posters all look the other way.

Unbeluevable if the umpires cant even spot chucking of this magnitude.

 

[GenericBrand]

I already called out Hafeez’s blatant chucking but like usuL posters all look the other way.

Unbeluevable if the umpires cant even spot chucking of this magnitude.

Lol, then a hissyfit is thrown when bowlers are called out in foreign lands

 

[Pakpak]

Glad pathetic 'Professor' has retired. Chucker and acts like he was a legend when his contributions have been bang average. He should thank Butt for fixing otherwise he'd never been near the team

 

[shamaan]

Hafeez has been really poor he stil has got one game in the final thou.

Hafeez should not be picked for next year's psl.