The value of your country's passport and what it means to you

[Napa]

Passport rankings are meaningless? ) )

FDI, GDP, FATF etc. are all meaningless )

 

[Syed1]

Lol at Indians thumping their chests on here.... Last I checked India has the country which has the largest number of people trying to leave it every year and dump the Indian passport in favour of passport from other countries.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

FDI, GDP, FATF etc. are all meaningless )

Please stick to the topic which is about passports. We can start different topics about GDP or even a recent wealth inequality report which put India only slightly above Afghanistan.

You have made numerous grand statements in this thread about Taliban, ISI and Joe Biden etc yet in reality the Indian passport is marginally different to Pakistans, the only major difference is that it Oman allows Indians in.

Is this what you are so hyped up about?

 

[Rajdeep]

Lol at Indians thumping their chests on here.... Last I checked India has the country which has the largest number of people trying to leave it every year and dump the Indian passport in favour of passport from other countries.

Indians dump their passport bcoz Indian govt don't allow dual citizenship. For example, I would love to hold onto my Indian passport by staying here in UK along with a British passport. But you cant as the moment you apply for a foreign passport, you need to submit Indian one. They then need to apply for OCI which is kind of a visa to travel to India. Population is one of the main reason why India never allows dual citizenship.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

yet in reality the Indian passport is marginally different to Pakistans, the only major difference is that it Oman allows Indians in.

Is this what you are so hyped up about?

That marginal will make lot of difference when it comes to foreign investments, establishing new tech companies and other industries.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

That marginal will make lot of difference when it comes to foreign investments, establishing new tech companies and other industries.

Could you please detail the link between what you have mentioned and India's passport ranking?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Indians dump their passport bcoz Indian govt don't allow dual citizenship. For example, I would love to hold onto my Indian passport by staying here in UK along with a British passport. But you cant as the moment you apply for a foreign passport, you need to submit Indian one. They then need to apply for OCI which is kind of a visa to travel to India. Population is one of the main reason why India never allows dual citizenship.

You can sugar coat it how much you like but the reality is you have dumped your Indian passport to the bottom of the rubbish bin.

You could have worked with an Indian passport and work permit if your love was so strong. If you are a skilled professional this would be relatively easy.

 

[Kroll]

Indians dump their passport bcoz Indian govt don't allow dual citizenship. For example, I would love to hold onto my Indian passport by staying here in UK along with a British passport. But you cant as the moment you apply for a foreign passport, you need to submit Indian one. They then need to apply for OCI which is kind of a visa to travel to India. Population is one of the main reason why India never allows dual citizenship.

That doesn't deviate from the fact they want to dump their passport in favour of others. You've clearly stated you'd rather have the British one instead of the Indian one if boils down to choosing one.

 

[Local.Dada]

You could have worked with an Indian passport and work permit if your love was so strong. If you are a skilled professional this would be relatively easy.

Lot of people do that too.

Once you decide to take up citizenship of another country, you have to surrender your Indian passport.

However you can sign up for an OCI card.

OCI card pretty much gives you all rights you have as an Indian citizen except you can’t vote, can’t run for politics and can’t buy farm land.

Most NRI’s will not have any interest in that whatsoever anyways. So you can be a foreign citizen and keep connected to the roots in India. That’s why people have no issue giving up the passport because you can still be an extended citizen.

It doesn’t work that way in Pakistan does it? Isn’t your National security advisor an American green card holder? Imran Khan’s children are British citizens etc. in India someone’s political career can end on such things.

It’s ok to argue but at least do some research before making a point. It takes 5 seconds to google and May be a few minutes to at least form a logic.

You can’t draw any equivalence between India and Pakistan here in terms of how the immigration laws are set up.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Lot of people do that too.

Once you decide to take up citizenship of another country, you have to surrender your Indian passport.

However you can sign up for an OCI card.

OCI card pretty much gives you all rights you have as an Indian citizen except you can’t vote, can’t run for politics and can’t buy farm land.

Most NRI’s will not have any interest in that whatsoever anyways. So you can be a foreign citizen and keep connected to the roots in India. That’s why people have no issue giving up the passport because you can still be an extended citizen.

It doesn’t work that way in Pakistan does it? Isn’t your National security advisor an American green card holder? Imran Khan’s children are British citizens etc. in India someone’s political career can end on such things.

It’s ok to argue but at least do some research before making a point. It takes 5 seconds to google and May be a few minutes to at least form a logic.

You can’t draw any equivalence between India and Pakistan here in terms of how the immigration laws are set up.

I wasn't drawing up an equivalence between India and Pakistan. In fact, my post to Rajdeep didn't mention Pakistan.

Please read it again before writing such a long off-topic post.

 

[MenInG]

Post sensibly - No need to make it a matter of national pride.

I am losing patience with a few posters who only show up in such threads to make simplistic points.

 

[LaLoco]

FDI, GDP, FATF etc. are all meaningless )

Find me a single Pakistani who said any of that isn't important.

Try to comment on Pakistan internal issues without the perception of Indian media narrative.

As a NRI, who has given up on India, your concern about Pakistani rather seem deceitful, particularly when you promote corrupt politician of Pakistan who had brought to Pakistan where it is.

So, NO! thank you.

 

[Justcrazy]

Please stick to the topic which is about passports. We can start different topics about GDP or even a recent wealth inequality report which put India only slightly above Afghanistan.

You have made numerous grand statements in this thread about Taliban, ISI and Joe Biden etc yet in reality the Indian passport is marginally different to Pakistans, the only major difference is that it Oman allows Indians in.

Is this what you are so hyped up about?

Oman will regret this soon , trust me , many will misuse this to overstay there.

 

[Napa]

Find me a single Pakistani who said any of that isn't important.

Try to comment on Pakistan internal issues without the perception of Indian media narrative.

As a NRI, who has given up on India, your concern about Pakistani rather seem deceitful, particularly when you promote corrupt politician of Pakistan who had brought to Pakistan where it is.

So, NO! thank you.

Your post is funny, given that by your own logic, you yourself (or possibly your parents) "gave up on" Pakistan... unless of course the US flag on your profile is merely aspirational.

 

[LaLoco]

Your post is funny, given that by your own logic, you yourself (or possibly your parents) "gave up on" Pakistan... unless of course the US flag on your profile is merely aspirational.

Within the context of this thread, it isn’t.

Pakistan didn’t made me chose. But most Indian had to give up on their Indian passport to acquire NRI title.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Lot of people do that too.

Once you decide to take up citizenship of another country, you have to surrender your Indian passport.

However you can sign up for an OCI card.

OCI card pretty much gives you all rights you have as an Indian citizen except you can’t vote, can’t run for politics and can’t buy farm land.

Most NRI’s will not have any interest in that whatsoever anyways. So you can be a foreign citizen and keep connected to the roots in India. That’s why people have no issue giving up the passport because you can still be an extended citizen.

It doesn’t work that way in Pakistan does it? Isn’t your National security advisor an American green card holder? Imran Khan’s children are British citizens etc. in India someone’s political career can end on such things.

It’s ok to argue but at least do some research before making a point. It takes 5 seconds to google and May be a few minutes to at least form a logic.

You can’t draw any equivalence between India and Pakistan here in terms of how the immigration laws are set up.

Lol.
Le Local.Dada: With OCI Card you can do pretty much everything a citizen can do.

Also Local.Dada: Except the most important things of being able to vote Along with ability to participate in politics and buying farm land

 

[ahsan17]

I find it interesting that almost no Indian in this thread has addressed the practical difference in the passports. Getting visa free access to irrelevant small or island nations is exactly that - irrelevant. Yet Indians here are jumping up and down because of that. This is the tale of Indians usually - jumping up and down, getting excited over things that make no practical difference in anyone's life.

We have Indians trying to immigrate en masse to Canada. There are so many H1B holders from India in the US that the wait time for green cards is 50+ years. The next highest country is China without around 6 years. I can recall when I was in university, several Indians I knew guaranteed us they wouldn't ditch their Indian citizenship for Canadian. Every single one of them ended up giving up their Indian citizenship.

 

[ahsan17]

Your post is funny, given that by your own logic, you yourself (or possibly your parents) "gave up on" Pakistan... unless of course the US flag on your profile is merely aspirational.

He likely still retains Pakistan citizenship. Can't say that about you and Indian citizenship, unless you are in the H1B queue.

 

[MenInG]

OK time to reset the direction of this thread.

Only comment on why you think your country's passport is at the rank which it is on.

I am changing the title.

 

[Napa]

Within the context of this thread, it isn’t.

Pakistan didn’t made me chose. But most Indian had to give up on their Indian passport to acquire NRI title.

It is a meaningless difference. In practice there is no difference between you having both US and Pakistani passports, while I having a US passport and an OCI card.

With my OCI card I can return to India any day, and live there as long as I wish, and after a certain period of time get my Indian citizenship back.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

It is a meaningless difference. In practice there is no difference between you having both US and Pakistani passports, while I having a US passport and an OCI card.

With my OCI card I can return to India any day, and live there as long as I wish, and after a certain period of time get my Indian citizenship back.

There is a lot of difference. Either you are delusional or have head in sand. Maybe both

India doesn’t even care enough to take your opinion on future of country since OCI cardholders cannot vote. But you think there is no different between citizenship and OCI card

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

So for some people, not having the right to vote is meaningless. I thought india had a culture of democracy lol. Isn’t that what we are told regularly?

 

[ahsan17]

OCI is like permanent residency. It is a level below citizenship, and not equal to citizenship like our Indian friend is suggesting. You cannot vote, you can be denied entry, you can be deported. There might be other restrictions as well.

 

[Napa]

OCI is like permanent residency. It is a level below citizenship, and not equal to citizenship like our Indian friend is suggesting. You cannot vote, you can be denied entry, you can be deported. There might be other restrictions as well.

If I believed my vote would result in my preferred candidate being elected in the Indian elections, I would certainly trade in my US passport and OCI card for Indian citizenship.

 

[ahsan17]

If I believed my vote would result in my preferred candidate being elected in the Indian elections, I would certainly trade in my US passport and OCI card for Indian citizenship.

Is your vote in US resulting in your preferred candidate being elected?

Not to mention you didn't discuss being denied entry or deportation.

 

[Napa]

Is your vote in US resulting in your preferred candidate being elected?

Not to mention you didn't discuss being denied entry or deportation.

Not sure what the argument is? India won't let Indians who take foreign citizenship vote in its elections, while Pakistan will. If you are arguing that Pakistanis only take foreign citizenship because they know they can still vote in Pakistani elections, but would not take foreign citizenship otherwise... I really don't have time for such silliness.

Also, too many friends and family entrenched in the Indian government to be denied entry or deported unless I do something to harm India, which of course I won't, so it is again irrelevant. I won't do anything to harm India irrespective of whether my passport is US or Indian.

 

[RajBan]

I think there can't be any comparison as two countries follow two different frameworks.

 

[Local.Dada]

Lol.
Le Local.Dada: With OCI Card you can do pretty much everything a citizen can do.

Also Local.Dada: Except the most important things of being able to vote Along with ability to participate in politics and buying farm land

Huh? What is so complicated to understand?

You can buy property, work, live and are protected by the same rights. You can’t participate in politics and farm lands are protected. Was there something complicated about what I said?

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Huh? What is so complicated to understand?

You can buy property, work, live and are protected by the same rights. You can’t participate in politics and farm lands are protected. Was there something complicated about what I said?

You and Napa are suggesting it is almost or exactly the same.

The simple fact is that it’s not. There are huge, crucial differences. Voting is among the most important aspects of any democratic society and you aren’t allowed to participate in that.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

If I believed my vote would result in my preferred candidate being elected in the Indian elections, I would certainly trade in my US passport and OCI card for Indian citizenship.

That’s a weak argument lol. It’s actually pretty hilarious.

The simple fact is that there is a world of difference between an OCI and Indian citizenship and they aren’t the same as you were trying to suggest earlier.

Being able to vote in elections is among the basic rights of any citizen of a democratic country which OCI holders are denied.

 

[LaLoco]

Not sure what the argument is? India won't let Indians who take foreign citizenship vote in its elections, while Pakistan will. If you are arguing that Pakistanis only take foreign citizenship because they know they can still vote in Pakistani elections, but would not take foreign citizenship otherwise... I really don't have time for such silliness.

Also, too many friends and family entrenched in the Indian government to be denied entry or deported unless I do something to harm India, which of course I won't, so it is again irrelevant. I won't do anything to harm India irrespective of whether my passport is US or Indian.

Electing and supporting Modi has harmed many Indian Muslims and continue to do so

 

[JaDed]

The work culture and quality of life(relative) are better in western nations(esp USA,Australia), it’s reason why most South Asians would move there.

Indian govn not allowing dual citizenship imho is right because people abroad can think of inflation in a different way than people living in the homeland.

If Pakistan didn’t allow dual nationality are posters saying they won’t take up other nationalities?

 

[JaDed]

I find it interesting that almost no Indian in this thread has addressed the practical difference in the passports. Getting visa free access to irrelevant small or island nations is exactly that - irrelevant. Yet Indians here are jumping up and down because of that. This is the tale of Indians usually - jumping up and down, getting excited over things that make no practical difference in anyone's life.

We have Indians trying to immigrate en masse to Canada. There are so many H1B holders from India in the US that the wait time for green cards is 50+ years. The next highest country is China without around 6 years. I can recall when I was in university, several Indians I knew guaranteed us they wouldn't ditch their Indian citizenship for Canadian. Every single one of them ended up giving up their Indian citizenship.

Many Canadians move to USA as well.. it’s mostly due to better opportunities eventhough Canada has equally good quality of life.

Why wouldn’t an Indian who can experience both want to move to states?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The work culture and quality of life(relative) are better in western nations(esp USA,Australia), it’s reason why most South Asians would move there.

Indian govn not allowing dual citizenship imho is right because people abroad can think of inflation in a different way than people living in the homeland.

If Pakistan didn’t allow dual nationality are posters saying they won’t take up other nationalities?

Its likely most Pakistanis would dump their passport just as quickly as Napa and Rajdeep have.

And thats the real point here. Indians arguing that their passport is stronger based on access to some extra Island countries are gloating for non existent reasons. Given the chance both Pakistanis and Indians would dump their passports in a heartbeat.

Its like arguing who the better side between Japan and Brazil in ICC T20 rankings. Sure one may be ranked higher but they are so far away from the top that any difference is irrelevant and affects noone.

 

[Technics 1210]

Many Canadians move to USA as well.. it’s mostly due to better opportunities eventhough Canada has equally good quality of life.

Why wouldn’t an Indian who can experience both want to move to states?

You must be waiting for your US passport. American passport holders and Canadian passport holders are free to move to Canada/USA using their Amreekan/Canadian passports. Check out North American pact. Or NAFTA for you newbies.

You can cross the border between USA/Canada with a valid passport.

This isn't something new. I can visit any commonwealth nation without the need for a visa thanks to my British passport.

 

[Technics 1210]

Its likely most Pakistanis would dump their passport just as quickly as Napa and Rajdeep have.

And thats the real point here. Indians arguing that their passport is stronger based on access to some extra Island countries are gloating for non existent reasons. Given the chance both Pakistanis and Indians would dump their passports in a heartbeat.

Its like arguing who the better side between Japan and Brazil in ICC T20 rankings. Sure one may be ranked higher but they are so far away from the top that any difference is irrelevant and affects noone.

Indian passport is not stronger. In fact Indian passport holders are held under greater scrutiny because their Indian government begs and pleads for lesser immigration controls in exchange for trade in
the West, Western governments rightly say no.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/01/13/brexit-trade-deals-must-allow-low-skilled-migration/

And to your point. An Indian or Pakistani trying to enter the West must provide the same level of evidence. Difference is Pakistanis do not have to relinquish or give up their identity (passport) just to enter a fair and lovely West.

 

[JaDed]

You must be waiting for your US passport. American passport holders and Canadian passport holders are free to move to Canada/USA using their Amreekan/Canadian passports. Check out North American pact. Or NAFTA for you newbies.

You can cross the border between USA/Canada with a valid passport.

This isn't something new. I can visit any commonwealth nation without the need for a visa thanks to my British passport.

Moving is not the same as working.. that’s why the word “opportunities“.. TN visa is the word u r looking for -“look it up”.

 

[Technics 1210]

Moving is not the same as working.. that’s why the word “opportunities“.. TN visa is the word u r looking for -“look it up”.

Let me know when you have your 'Green' card; then we will talk. PS : NAFTA means freedom to work too.

 

[JaDed]

Its likely most Pakistanis would dump their passport just as quickly as Napa and Rajdeep have.

And thats the real point here. Indians arguing that their passport is stronger based on access to some extra Island countries are gloating for non existent reasons. Given the chance both Pakistanis and Indians would dump their passports in a heartbeat.

Its like arguing who the better side between Japan and Brazil in ICC T20 rankings. Sure one may be ranked higher but they are so far away from the top that any difference is irrelevant and affects noone.

To me it doesn’t matter both the passports as such will not get you to work easily in developed nations.

The ranking is only good enough for island nations wrt India and Pakistan..

 

[JaDed]

Let me know when you have your 'Green' card; then we will talk. PS : NAFTA means freedom to work too.

Green card is based on country of birth.. you can be a British citizen but if you are born in India or China you will go through the line.

Also on NAFTA you think Indians don’t know about it, which is silly because due to the line for GC(Indians and Chinese) many actually get the Canadian citizenship through PR and come to states to work.

The point is Canadians can freely work and yet many Canadians choose to settle in USA, why do you think that is over Canada, it’s for better opportunities eventhough quality of life is better.

Also TN visa is not as easy but yes it’s easier than H1B.

I’m not sure what point you are making here when you quoted me, I know all the policies.

 

[Technics 1210]

Green card is based on country of birth.. you can be a British citizen but if you are born in India or China you will go through the line.

Also on NAFTA you think Indians don’t know about it, which is silly because due to the line for GC(Indians and Chinese) many actually get the Canadian citizenship through PR and come to states to work.

The point is Canadians can freely work and yet many Canadians choose to settle in USA, why do you think that is over Canada, it’s for better opportunities eventhough quality of life is better.

Also TN visa is not as easy but yes it’s easier than H1B.

I’m not sure what point you are making here when you quoted me, I know all the policies.

You didn't answer the question.

Fact is, if you had a green card then you'd be free to move and work between USA/Canada. Of course once you have your American Blue Passport, you would have greater rights, except when travelling back home to India. Oh. The. Irony.

 

[JaDed]

You didn't answer the question.

Fact is, if you had a green card then you'd be free to move and work between USA/Canada. Of course once you have your American Blue Passport, you would have greater rights, except when travelling back home to India. Oh. The. Irony.

Whats the question? If i have a GC ? No ,I have a Canadian Pr but i still prefer being on h1b.. Canada is a lovely place I respect it a lot, this would remain the case whether I have a GC or not.

 

[Technics 1210]

Whats the question? If i have a GC ? No ,I have a Canadian Pr but i still prefer being on h1b.. Canada is a lovely place I respect it a lot, this would remain the case whether I have a GC or not.

Kudos for being honest.

Come back when you have a green card, a stepping stone to Amreekan passport.

You are basically living a life in the West based on Visa conditions.

So much for your Indian passport (or relic) holding value/ranking.

 

[JaDed]

Kudos for being honest.

Come back when you have a green card, a stepping stone to Amreekan passport.

You are basically living a life in the West based on Visa conditions.

So much for your Indian passport (or relic) holding value/ranking.

Indian passport will not matter for GC(it’s based on country of birth) , it comes in picture for work only.. hope that clears the confusion.

If i get GC / American passport what difference would it make to what I post though?

 

[Technics 1210]

Indian passport will not matter for GC(it’s based on country of birth) , it comes in picture for work only.. hope that clears the confusion.

If i get GC / American passport what difference would it make to what I post though?

You are in limbo land. You neither have a US passport, nor a Canadian passport, on the verge of reliqushing your Indian identity; clinging to an HS Visa - for the sake of what? You can move and work freely within NAFTA nations?

Your example is the perfect illustration of the value of an Indian passport - ZILCH.

Kudos for admiting it.

 

[Napa]

Comparisons with the Indian passport miss the point.

The strength of a passport is a measure of what the rest of the world thinks of you.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Comparisons with the Indian passport miss the point.

The strength of a passport is a measure of what the rest of the world thinks of you.

The Pakistani passport is at this point the worst in the world except for Afghanistan (ruled by the Taliban who are regarded as terrorists), Iraq and Syria (which have major ongoing civil wars and large parts of their countries out of government control).

It is for Pakistanis and not Indians to decide why this situation exists and if anything needs to be done to change. If you are happy with your ISI providing refuge to Osama and nurturing non-state actors, more power to you.

No more replies.

Indian passport is ranked under Zimbabwe. It is a measure of what the rest of the world thinks of you.

If you are happy that Modis India is ranked under a country that underwent hyperinflation and blackballing by Western countries, then more power to you.


(Of course the above is hypothetical because we know you have dumped it into the rubbish bin)

 

[MenInG]

A few of you will be getting formal warnings tomorrow.

Inability to post without trolling others is unacceptable.

 

[Local.Dada]

Indian passport is ranked under Zimbabwe. It is a measure of what the rest of the world thinks of you.

It’s a measure of what world “used” to think of you.

One of the reasons Indian passport ranking is also relatively low because one should remember that till 60’s Indians couldn’t even become citizens of USA because we were aligned with USSR, that slowly changed.Similarly, Zimbabwe when it used to be ruled by white minority had great trade and other relations with the west. Those immigration and Visa rules don’t change overnight.

Obviously no one is proud of Indias overall ranking at the moment but we see a positive that it has gone up.

 

[sweep_shot]

Here are the ranks of all passports: https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php.

UAE apparently has the strongest passport.

 

[ahsan17]

Comparisons with the Indian passport miss the point.

The strength of a passport is a measure of what the rest of the world thinks of you.

In India's case, it's what some small and irrelevant island nations think of India.

 

[ahsan17]

Green card is based on country of birth.. you can be a British citizen but if you are born in India or China you will go through the line.

Also on NAFTA you think Indians don’t know about it, which is silly because due to the line for GC(Indians and Chinese) many actually get the Canadian citizenship through PR and come to states to work.

The point is Canadians can freely work and yet many Canadians choose to settle in USA, why do you think that is over Canada, it’s for better opportunities eventhough quality of life is better.

Also TN visa is not as easy but yes it’s easier than H1B.

I’m not sure what point you are making here when you quoted me, I know all the policies.

I don't think it's fair to club Indians and Chinese together when it comes to the GC queue. Chinese would be worse off if S386 were to become law. They would much prefer status quo.

As for why some Canadians work in the US, it's primarily because of higher income. Some of them may choose to settle there, many other come back later in life. Having been in the same shoes (currently living in the US), I find QoL generally much better in Canada compared to the US, even with the lower pay. Perhaps the one significant exception is the weather - that's only relevant if you are living in southern states that are at or near the Mexican border.

To be honest, US reminds me of a country not exactly developed, but not exactly a developing country, i.e. somewhere in the middle. The wealthy do really well in the country, but it's a terrible country for the poor and the middle class. One of the key tenets of any developed country are social.programs for the poor and the middle class, and US really lacks there.

 

[JaDed]

I don't think it's fair to club Indians and Chinese together when it comes to the GC queue. Chinese would be worse off if S386 were to become law. They would much prefer status quo.

As for why some Canadians work in the US, it's primarily because of higher income. Some of them may choose to settle there, many other come back later in life. Having been in the same shoes (currently living in the US), I find QoL generally much better in Canada compared to the US, even with the lower pay. Perhaps the one significant exception is the weather - that's only relevant if you are living in southern states that are at or near the Mexican border.

To be honest, US reminds me of a country not exactly developed, but not exactly a developing country, i.e. somewhere in the middle. The wealthy do really well in the country, but it's a terrible country for the poor and the middle class. One of the key tenets of any developed country are social.programs for the poor and the middle class, and US really lacks there.

I would disagree if you saw the recent pic shared by Andrew Baback you would realize Canada is failing as well in that regard esp GTA, I personally know people working in social services in Toronto and they have all the stories to tell about systematic failure.

Lets also not forget that eventhough Canada has much more resources for such a small population this is still happening, I don’t want to get into the vaccine shortage or even medical
wait lines.

Again I do respect Canada a lot but it needs to promote some sort of business opportunities , personally I rather be middleclass in USA because atleast I have options to move up esp in Tech compared to Canada, it’s not only the salary but opportunities and ceilings that is restrictive in Canada.

I do admire Canada and Canadians a lot but its almost become too expensive to live in most parts for new economic immigrants.

I do think it might be better for retirement than USA but not for living or earning.

Also s386 is a law for Indian borns not for Indian passport holders as such, an Indian born in gulf will not have to wait in line.. and Yes Chinese would still
prefer this over that..

 

[loves_cricket]

How easy to travel to different countries is real strength of your passport nothing else

 

[Technics 1210]

The passport rankings are utterly meaningless.

As a UK passport holder, if I want to work in the USA, I still need to apply for a H1 Visa, I still need to provide supporting evidence, I still have interviews, I still need approval. I have to jump through the same hoops as an Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi passport holders.

My UK passport does NOT grant me any additional rights in a foreign country, does NOT give me special privileges, does NOT give me access to additional services. My passport number is treated the same as any other passport holder from around the world.

The only time my passport might give me special rights is if my Passport is issued by the Armed Forces or if I have diplomatic immunity. This is it.

As for travelling to the USA or any other country. I still require approval. I cannot turn-up with my Mickey Mouse luggage and UK passport and claim I am on holiday. No. Even to the USA, I need to fill out an ESTA, pay a fee, wait for approval BEFORE even buying a ticket. This process was always in place but now online due to 5 eyes intelligence sharing.

Sure there are Visa waiver programs in place but these are purely for holiday purposes; however these waiver programs are no guarantee of entrance regardless of Passport.

It works the other way too. A US citizen, or Indian, or Pakistani wanting to settle under a spouse visa in the UK, or work in the UK, has to jump through the same hoops as every non UK passport holder. Provide the same evidence. Fill out the same forms. Pay the same fees. And wait for approval.

Lets get real, the majority of SC citizens who want to work or want to visit for holidays will pick a country out of the 5 eyes. Regardless of where their passport ranks, An Indian, A Pakistani, A Bangladeshi, A Sri Lanken - will ALL have to follow the same process for entry approval. This is why the rankings are meaningless.

Passport is an ID document first, remember this, then a document to apply for travel. Thus rankings are meaningless.

 

[ahsan17]

I would disagree if you saw the recent pic shared by Andrew Baback you would realize Canada is failing as well in that regard esp GTA, I personally know people working in social services in Toronto and they have all the stories to tell about systematic failure.

Lets also not forget that eventhough Canada has much more resources for such a small population this is still happening, I don’t want to get into the vaccine shortage or even medical
wait lines.

Again I do respect Canada a lot but it needs to promote some sort of business opportunities , personally I rather be middleclass in USA because atleast I have options to move up esp in Tech compared to Canada, it’s not only the salary but opportunities and ceilings that is restrictive in Canada.

I do admire Canada and Canadians a lot but its almost become too expensive to live in most parts for new economic immigrants.

I do think it might be better for retirement than USA but not for living or earning.

Also s386 is a law for Indian borns not for Indian passport holders as such, an Indian born in gulf will not have to wait in line.. and Yes Chinese would still
prefer this over that..

What specific failures are you talking about though? Anecdotes are not really useful IMO - it's mostly how the system as an aggregate performs. Vaccine shortage was temporary for like a month. Medical wait lines are a problem but Canadian healthcare system as a whole is still vastly superior to the US. 30% of the people in the US don't even have health insurance, so technically they can't get in line.

In tech Canada has lower ceiling and opportunities, agreed, but it has grown significantly recently, and with all the other issues in the US (visa not one of those issues for me, FYI) I still think the QoL as a sum of everything is still vastly better in Canada.

 

[daytrader]

Pakistani passport ranks fourth lowest in world
Arton Capital declares UAE’s travel document world's most powerful

Pakistan has been ranked 94th, sharing the slot with Somalia, in terms of passport strength while the UAE has topped the list of the world's most powerful ones.

According to the list issued by Arton Capital, a Pakistani passport only mandates travel to 44 countries without a visa.

Below Pakistan are Iraq (ranked 95th), Syria (ranked 96th) and Afghanistan (ranked 97th).

In comparison, the passports of Yemen (93rd), Bangladesh (92nd), North Korea, Libya and Palestine (91st) and Iran (90th) have been declared more powerful than that of Pakistan.

However, the passport of the UAE has been declared the most powerful across the world.

UAE nationals can travel to 180 countries without a visa.

Citizens of other countries, including the Netherlands, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, and other countries do not require a visa to visit 173 countries.

Similarly, the people of the US, Poland, Ireland, Denmark, Belgium, New Zealand, Portugal and Norway can travel to 172 countries without a visa.

With current travel restrictions in place, Russia does not make an appearance until 35th on the list -- slipping one spot since 2021 --with visa-free access to 122 destinations.

Ukraine maintained its spot at 20th, but it increased its visa-free access to 144 destinations from 127 in 2021.

It is worth mentioning that the passports of every country in the world became powerful during this year because they are trying to acquire economic benefits by making travel facilities easier.

Unlike the Henley Passport Index, which has Japan at the top of its 2022 rankings, Arton Capital’s Passport Index updates its rankings in real time as new visa waivers and changes are implemented, showing the current effects that Covid-19 travel bans and the war in Ukraine have on global mobility right now.

After slipping down the rankings in recent years, the UAE has made an impressive comeback in 2022.

The lifting of Covid-19 border closures is one reason, but the UAE also received a boost thanks to subsidising country pavilions at the Expo 2020 Dubai for lower-income nations in exchange for visa-free agreements.

These rankings already show a significant rebound in mobility around the world.

During 2020, the world’s most powerful passports allowed visa-free entry to just 112 destinations.

Belgium, Finland, Austria, Luxembourg, Spain, Ireland, the UK, and Switzerland shared the top ranking that year.

When these temporary restrictions are removed, travel freedom for holders of many of these powerful passports looks very different.

For example, in the Henley Passport Index, which released its most recent rankings on July 19, 2022 without factoring in Covid-19 border closures or other travel restrictions, the US has access to 186 destinations, putting it at seventh on that list.

Express Tribune

 

[Justcrazy]

I find it interesting that almost no Indian in this thread has addressed the practical difference in the passports. Getting visa free access to irrelevant small or island nations is exactly that - irrelevant. Yet Indians here are jumping up and down because of that. This is the tale of Indians usually - jumping up and down, getting excited over things that make no practical difference in anyone's life.

We have Indians trying to immigrate en masse to Canada. There are so many H1B holders from India in the US that the wait time for green cards is 50+ years. The next highest country is China without around 6 years. I can recall when I was in university, several Indians I knew guaranteed us they wouldn't ditch their Indian citizenship for Canadian. Every single one of them ended up giving up their Indian citizenship.

That is not unnatural. If you stay long enough in Uk , Us , Canada etc , you would want to get citizenship.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Pakistan's Passport Among World's Weakest. Most Powerful Are...

Japan starts 2023 with the world's most powerful passport, allowing visa-free entry to 193 global destinations, according to the latest Henley Passport Index, which the country tops for the fifth consecutive year.

That doesn't mean the passport is widely used, even as travel rebounds from Covid. Only 24 million valid Japanese passports were in circulation at the end of 2021, according to the latest available figures from the country's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. That's down more than 3 million from the year before and means that less than 20% of the population held the travel document.

Singapore and South Korea retained their places in joint second on the ranking, followed by Germany and Spain, and then a slew of other European nations.

The US was among the top 22, with visa-free access to 186 places, matching the likes of Switzerland, New Zealand and Norway. China's allows access to 80, the same as Bolivia's. Russia's is better, providing hassle-free entry to 118 destinations, while Afghanistan's remained the weakest, with access to just 27.

The ranking, published by London-based immigration consultancy Henley & Partners, uses data from the International Air Transport Association to rank 199 passports' access to 227 travel destinations. The methodology differs from other passport indexes like one published by financial advisory Arton Capital, which put the United Arab Emirates in pole position.

Separately, a Morning Consult poll conducted in July showed that 35% of adult respondents in Japan indicated they didn't plan to ever travel for leisure again, a far higher percentage than the other 13 nations surveyed. South Korea was the next, with 15% saying the same.

Nearly 2 million people traveled overseas from Japan in the first 10 months of last year, according to the Japan National Tourism Organization, a long way off the 20 million that did so in all of 2019, before the pandemic.

NDTV

 

[SalimBhai]

You can go to Cuba on Pakistani passport

 

[The Bald Eagle]

World's Most Powerful Passports: 6 Countries In Top Spot

France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Singapore, and Spain start 2024 with the world's most powerful passport, allowing visa-free entry to 194 global destinations, according to the latest Henley Passport Index. The ranking is based on data from the International Air Transport Association (IATA).

For the past five years, Japan and Singapore have consistently dominated the No. 1 spot. However, this quarter's ranking showcases European nations jumping up the tanks. Finland and Sweden tied with South Korea in second place, offering visa-free access to 193 destinations. Austria, Denmark, Ireland, and the Netherlands secure the third position, providing passport holders access to 192 destinations.

India's passport ranked 80th spot in the list, with citizens allowed to travel to 62 countries without a visa, including popular tourist destinations like Indonesia, Malaysia, and Thailand. India shares its current rank with Uzbekistan while neighboring Pakistan is positioned at 101st.

Christian H Kaelin, chairman of Henley & Partners and the creator of the passport index highlighted the widening global mobility gap between countries. Despite an overall trend toward increased travel freedom over the past two decades, the disparity between the top and bottom of the index has reached an all-time high.

Mr Kaelin said, "The average number of destinations travelers are able to access visa-free has nearly doubled from 58 in 2006 to 111 in 2024.

He emphasized that the top-ranked countries now enjoy the privilege of traveling to an astonishing 166 more destinations visa-free than Afghanistan, which occupies the bottom spot on the list, with access to just 28 countries without a visa. Syria, with visa-free access to only 29 destinations, holds the second-lowest position, followed by Iraq with 31 and Pakistan with 34.

Source: NDTV

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The federal government has withdrawn its earlier decision to halt the issuance of Pakistani passports to individuals seeking political asylum abroad

The decision was taken during a high-level meeting chaired by Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Mohammad Ishaq Dar.

The meeting, which focused on the welfare of overseas Pakistanis, was attended by key officials including the Secretary of Foreign Affairs, the Secretary of Interior, the DG of IMPASS, and senior representatives from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

During the session, DPM Dar received a detailed briefing from the Secretary of Interior and the DG of IMPASS regarding the facilitation of timely passport issuance for Pakistanis living overseas.

The meeting decided to immediately withdraw the circular dated June 5, 2024, which had suspended the issuance of Pakistani passports to asylum seekers abroad and aims to ensure that overseas Pakistanis receive their passports without unnecessary delays.

Officials assured the Deputy Prime Minister that passports for overseas Pakistanis would now be issued within 60 days, reaffirming the government's commitment to the welfare of its citizens abroad.

Source: The Express Tribune

 

[Red-Indian]

World's Most Powerful Passports: 6 Countries In Top Spot

France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Singapore, and Spain start 2024 with the world's most powerful passport, allowing visa-free entry to 194 global destinations, according to the latest Henley Passport Index. The ranking is based on data from the International Air Transport Association (IATA).

For the past five years, Japan and Singapore have consistently dominated the No. 1 spot. However, this quarter's ranking showcases European nations jumping up the tanks. Finland and Sweden tied with South Korea in second place, offering visa-free access to 193 destinations. Austria, Denmark, Ireland, and the Netherlands secure the third position, providing passport holders access to 192 destinations.

India's passport ranked 80th spot in the list, with citizens allowed to travel to 62 countries without a visa, including popular tourist destinations like Indonesia, Malaysia, and Thailand. India shares its current rank with Uzbekistan while neighboring Pakistan is positioned at 101st.

Christian H Kaelin, chairman of Henley & Partners and the creator of the passport index highlighted the widening global mobility gap between countries. Despite an overall trend toward increased travel freedom over the past two decades, the disparity between the top and bottom of the index has reached an all-time high.

Mr Kaelin said, "The average number of destinations travelers are able to access visa-free has nearly doubled from 58 in 2006 to 111 in 2024.

He emphasized that the top-ranked countries now enjoy the privilege of traveling to an astonishing 166 more destinations visa-free than Afghanistan, which occupies the bottom spot on the list, with access to just 28 countries without a visa. Syria, with visa-free access to only 29 destinations, holds the second-lowest position, followed by Iraq with 31 and Pakistan with 34.

Source: NDTV

Whatever the rankings say, from personal experience, the Indian passport feels a fair bit more powerful recently. When I first started to travel internationally about 20+ years ago, I used to budget 15-20 days easily to get a visa, the documentation requirements used to be massive, an interview was mandatory and the whole process felt like a long drawn out tooth extraction.

Now it takes 4-5 days on average, I haven't appeared personally for an interview in years and the documentation is mostly just salary slips and bank statements.2 out of my last 3 foreign holidays have been visa on arrival. I suppose part of that is Consulates using better technologies, more offices etc. but it does feel like the passport has gained more value.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Latest passport rankings as per henley -

China 60th
India 77th

Bhutan 84th
Sri Lanka 91st
North Korea 93rd (very surprising)
Bangladesh 94th
Nepal 95th
Pakistan 96th
Afghanistan 99th

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Great question to ask likes of @KingKhanWC @Bewal Express

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Who would give visa free entry to north Koreans!!

 

[oatmeal]

Latest passport rankings as per henley -

China 60th
India 77th

Bhutan 84th
Sri Lanka 91st
North Korea 93rd (very surprising)
Bangladesh 94th
Nepal 95th
Pakistan 96th
Afghanistan 99th

And this is just rank, and there are multiple countries in the same position and the actual rank is much lower

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Latest passport rankings as per henley -

China 60th
India 77th

Bhutan 84th
Sri Lanka 91st
North Korea 93rd (very surprising)
Bangladesh 94th
Nepal 95th
Pakistan 96th
Afghanistan 99th

This sort of things does the rounds on social media every year but the actual difference between the countries is very little. Some random islands or African countries.

North Korea has visa free entry to Syria for example, something that Pakistanis or Indians couldn't give two hoots about.

 

[Suleiman]

I am beyond nationalities, have left these sort of man made constructs behind, notice how there’s no flag next to my name.

Goal is Jannah, while I am on earth I am a free agent and will support whichever nation temporarily. I currently am a South African fan in cricket, Pakistan? Never heard of her

 

[Bhaijaan]

Mass immigration, especially through illegal channels like the dunky route is undeniably one of the key reasons why our passport ranks so poorly.

It’s not just about how strong our economy is or isn’t; it’s about how countries perceive the risk of overstays, asylum claims, or illegal settlement from visa applicants.

Unfortunately, a significant portion of low-skilled or undocumented migration has created a stigma that affects genuine travelers, business professionals, tourists, and students alike. Genuine travelers are often caught up in the broader suspicion triggered by misuse of the system.

Look at China. Despite being an economic powerhouse, its passport is still ranked #60. It’s clearly not just about GDP or global clout.

Realistically speaking, breaking into the Top 50, let alone the Top 25 will remain a massive challenge unless there’s a complete shift in how migration is handled, both internally and in the eyes of the world. Without major policy reforms and better global trust, our passport holders will continue to face these hurdles.




- 675 posts until retirement

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Ya. Unless migration reduces, China and india might languish outside Top 50.