Those who live outside Pakistan - Would you move back there if you could?

[Pakistanian]

Okay, you live in some futuristic world which is far, far ahead of Pakistan. Mere years would be too small to measure how far ahead your adopted country in the West is. Pakistan is just a village compared to wherever you are. My apologies for having thought to question your futuristic country. After all, I am only writing from such a pathetic, third-word slum! Thank God for the internet otherwise I would have no idea as to what cities are like and how life is in the futuristic world of yours because we are deprived of all these benefits here. You win bro.

Y'all don't have a reliable supply of power 24/7, you don't have clean drinking tap water, you don't have quality public schools, hospitals. You can't call an ambulance in less than 5 minutes if there was an emergency, there's no quality public mass transit system anywhere in Pakistan. You can't walk outside with you cell phone without the fear of it getting stolen, you can't walk at night anywhere without the fear of getting mugged, while I can walk around 3 am here and never get mugged, even the internet connection you brag about is really slow compared to what we have here (and unlimited data too!). You can't drive a nice car on the narrow congested and pothole ridden roads of Pakistan, not to mention the chaotic traffic that's a threat to your safety and your car's value. You can breathe fresh air like we do here. You need to step out of Pakistan, to realize how far behind it is.

Just cause a lot of middle class Pakistanis have servants in their house, that doesn't mean they have it better than Pakistanis overseas, it's just that Pakistan has really cheap labor because of widespread poverty (>50%).

 

[Yossarian]

This is what is causing me the most sleepless nights these days.

My friend went back home last year and he works for an engineering firm that is building a dam near Jehlum and believe it or not he has crazy shifts like 22 days without a day off and long hours with no overtime. The job description said 5 days a week 9-5 job but he hasn't once left work at or before 5.

Is your friend paid on an hourly basis or on an annual salary basis? If on an hourly basis then of course he should be paid for the actual number of hours worked per week.

However, if he's on an annual salary basis (and paid monthly on the basis of 1/12th of the annual salary per month regardless of the number of working days in the month), then it's not uncommon to work way beyond the weekly hours written in the contract and that without any additional pay.

It's not uncommon for me to work 15+ hours a day (eg starting at 9:00 am and working past mid-night) seven days a week if in the middle of working on a project with tight deadlines that are in danger of not being met.

Otherwise, working a couple of hours late every day and then taking work home to work on during the evening or at weekends just goes with the job.
My contracted hours are 35 hours per week (7 hours per day). But allowing for working late, taking work home and working at weekends, I'd say that my normal week consists of around 55 hours per week (without any additional pay), except when trying to meet deadlines as per above.

And oh yeah, I'm currently living and working in The UK.

 

[Zohaib Shah]

What angers these people you label to be "blind patriots" is this title itself. You clearly refuse to understand what they are trying to say. You just read it and just leave it alone because you are assuming them to have this undying love for their country. The thing is, the reason why these "blind patriots" as taking it so negatively is because all these reasons expats are citing for not moving to Pakistan are false. I'm not calling them liars, I'm just calling them lazy people who form opinions through biased news and from the life that they had when they lived in Pakistan or from what they saw in Pakistan when they were forced to visit for a week and they went to their village somewhere in remote inner-Punjab.

So are you trying to say Pakistan living standards are the same as a well developed country? Would Pakistan be very feasible to live in if you live aboard in another country, than come over to Pakistan to find simliar or better living standards?

 

[Zahid87]

Is your friend paid on an hourly basis or on an annual salary basis? If on an hourly basis then of course he should be paid for the actual number of hours worked per week.

However, if he's on an annual salary basis (and paid monthly on the basis of 1/12th of the annual salary per month regardless of the number of working days in the month), then it's not uncommon to work way beyond the weekly hours written in the contract and that without any additional pay.

It's not uncommon for me to work 15+ hours a day (eg starting at 9:00 am and working past mid-night) seven days a week if in the middle of working on a project with tight deadlines that are in danger of not being met.

Otherwise, working a couple of hours late every day and then taking work home to work on during the evening or at weekends just goes with the job.
My contracted hours are 35 hours per week (7 hours per day). But allowing for working late, taking work home and working at weekends, I'd say that my normal week consists of around 55 hours per week (without any additional pay), except when trying to meet deadlines as per above.

And oh yeah, I'm currently living and working in The UK.

+1

My contractual hours, and those of my colleagues are 08:00 - 18:00.

Its absolute rubbish of course. In the industry that I am in, its not uncommon to work till the early hours of the morning, and pull all nighters if need be. Its expected of the role. Typically I reach work around 7/7:30 on a normal day, and leave around 19:30/20:00 at the earliest. Not a Pakistan specific problem!

 

[Zahid87]

Not at all. I'm not even saying that there would be no drawbacks. There'd be a lot of cons, probably much higher than those of living in the West and nor did I at one stage on this thread state that there wouldn't but what I have been trying to say repeatedly is that many of the things mentioned here by the people are not true. There may be other cons and drawbacks, but certainly not the ones people have mentioned on here making Pakistan look like a distant, desolated planet inhabited by monsters and beasts.

Going through the thread I can see some one the ones you dispute. Corruption being widespread being one of them, as well as getting jobs through nepotism. Do you see these as things which do not exist at all, or are you saying that the impact these have on the average 'middle-class' college grad are negligible.

And although to a certain extent I can understand where you are coming from when you say that a guy in a white collar job in Pakistan has it better than the equivalent from the west, can you elaborate. Is it the 'better lifestyle' that comes with a big house, servants, a driver, etc?

 

[Yossarian]

Going through the thread I can see some one the ones you dispute. Corruption being widespread being one of them, as well as getting jobs through nepotism. Do you see these as things which do not exist at all, or are you saying that the impact these have on the average 'middle-class' college grad are negligible.

And although to a certain extent I can understand where you are coming from when you say that a guy in a white collar job in Pakistan has it better than the equivalent from the west, can you elaborate. Is it the 'better lifestyle' that comes with a big house, servants, a driver, etc?

Generally speaking, trying to do a like-for-like comparison between someone living in the West and someone living in a 3rd world developing country is meaningless.

For example, some of my cousins in Pakistan, in far more junior jobs than mtself, and being paid a fraction of my salary, live in decent houses, have cooks and maids, and gardeners/drivers to do the odd jobs around the house and take the kids to/from private school and drive the wives to the stores, friends etc.

Myself, in contrast, despite having many times more salary, have a modest but decent house, my children attend state schools (although the schools are high performing being in a reasonably well-to-do area) and don't have anywhere near the same amount of free time as my cousins for socialising with friends. I don't have a gardener, meaning I mow the lawn and trim the hedges myself. As for my wife having a cook and maid to do the cooking and work around the house, and a driver to take the children to school - you must be joking!

On the other hand, I have far more disposable income to buy a new car, new tv, take the family abroad on holiday etc.

So who has a 'better' life? Him or me?

Incidentally, it's a similar argument in the UK between those who live in decent sized houses and cottages in quiet little villages in the countryside, with all that scenery, fresh air and healthy living, and those who live in cramped houses and apartments in polluted city air, but within walking, or a few minutes driving distance to shops, theatres, doctors, hospitals etc plus almost 24/7 public transport.

"Grass is always greener on the other side"

 

[Zahid87]

Generally speaking, trying to do a like-for-like comparison between someone living in the West and someone living in a 3rd world developing country is meaningless.

For example, some of my cousins in Pakistan, in far more junior jobs than mtself, and being paid a fraction of my salary, live in decent houses, have cooks and maids, and gardeners/drivers to do the odd jobs around the house and take the kids to/from private school and drive the wives to the stores, friends etc.

Myself, in contrast, despite having many times more salary, have a modest but decent house, my children attend state schools (although the schools are high performing being in a reasonably well-to-do area) and don't have anywhere near the same amount of free time as my cousins for socialising with friends. I don't have a gardener, meaning I mow the lawn and trim the hedges myself. As for my wife having a cook and maid to do the cooking and work around the house, and a driver to take the children to school - you must be joking!

On the other hand, I have far more disposable income to buy a new car, new tv, take the family abroad on holiday etc.

So who has a 'better' life? Him or me?

Incidentally, it's a similar argument in the UK between those who live in decent sized houses and cottages in quiet little villages in the countryside, with all that scenery, fresh air and healthy living, and those who live in cramped houses and apartments in polluted city air, but within walking, or a few minutes driving distance to shops, theatres, doctors, hospitals etc plus almost 24/7 public transport.

"Grass is always greener on the other side"

This is where I wanted to get to really. That percieved advantages/disadvantages are objective. Its what you yourself prioritise and value at the end of the day.

For example, I enjoy doing the cooking. I would not want someone else to come and do it for me, and looking the distant relatives I do have in Pakistan, I am not sure whether I would welcome the lifestyle that comes with having someone at your beck and call to do every little thing.

But thats my opinion. Others may disagree and welcome having people regularly cooking and cleaning the house....heck, the relatives I previously mentioned use their 'helper' to even do massages, and to carry out odd errands that they deem unworthy of their time and effort. When one of them came to the UK to study, he couldn't understand why people like me don't move back to Pakistan, and chose to live in a place where I had to do everything myself.

 

[Yossarian]

This is where I wanted to get to really. That percieved advantages/disadvantages are objective. Its what you yourself prioritise and value at the end of the day.

For example, I enjoy doing the cooking. I would not want someone else to come and do it for me, and looking the distant relatives I do have in Pakistan, I am not sure whether I would welcome the lifestyle that comes with having someone at your beck and call to do every little thing.

But thats my opinion. Others may disagree and welcome having people regularly cooking and cleaning the house....heck, the relatives I previously mentioned use their 'helper' to even do massages, and to carry out odd errands that they deem unworthy of their time and effort. When one of them came to the UK to study, he couldn't understand why people like me don't move back to Pakistan, and chose to live in a place where I had to do everything myself.

I love doing DIY. Putting up shelves, painting/wall papering, repairing household electrics and electronics, tinkering around the garden and inside the garden shed (which is my 'getaway' and contains my workbench and enough power and hand tools to put a small Home Depot / B&Q / Radio Shack store to shame!). I doubt if many 'professionals' in Pakistan would do that.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] has summed it up well and I will say it again. Some extremely pathetic and awful posts in this thread, very sickening to read.

So what I learned is that overseas Pakistanis who have the resources and the financial security/stability to return are not willing to do so because there is corruption in Pakistan and they are the beacons of honesty and can also be referred to as saints. Apparently, you cannot buy a bottle of ketchup in Pakistan without bribing someone. Clearly, everyone who is living in Pakistan must be corrupt.

I also learned that some of these folks are not willing to return to Pakistan because they cannot trust anybody, not even their neighbors.

Now having lived in Pakistan for 26 years, I am not sure which country they are referring to. Surely, we have our problems. Corruption is a major one, but it is certainly possible to not get into the corruption business if you desire, and much to their disappointment, majority of the people are not corrupt.

As far as not being able to trust your neighbors and having your mobile snatched, not every city in Pakistan is Karachi, and your neighbors will care about you than your neighbors in the West who probably don't give a crap about you or your existence. My cousin who lives in Warrington, has met his next door neighbor about 3 times in 7 years while my uncle, who lives in the Isle of Man, almost managed to get sued by his neighbor because his chickens in the backyard were too noisy.

The exaggerations in this thread are ridiculous. I'm from a financially secure background but that does not mean that everyone in my social circle is and I am not aware of - and haven't seen - the 'aam admi' problems in this country. The 'rich man bubble' that these people try to paint every one into exists but it is very minute. Generally, when you live in Pakistan, you are exposed to a lot of obstacles regardless of your financial background and my profession has allowed to see things even more clearly.

Nothing is worse than these people who will run away from the country at first opportunity and then talk crap and crap and crap all day long over how bad Pakistan is, even though they have hardly spent time in Pakistan other than the great 'ehsaan' that they do on their homeland by visiting for a few weeks every few years or so.

These people are as bad as those overseas Pakistanis who are completely oblivious to the problems in Pakistan and pretend that everything is nice and dandy. Both represent two extremes.

Naa these pathetic crybabies on this thread are worse. Should stop their compulsory once a year visits too TBH if they hate it so much. Like i said before, Pakistan is much much better without them. Brilliant post btw

 

[Zohaib Shah]

This is where I wanted to get to really. That percieved advantages/disadvantages are objective. Its what you yourself prioritise and value at the end of the day.

For example, I enjoy doing the cooking. I would not want someone else to come and do it for me, and looking the distant relatives I do have in Pakistan, I am not sure whether I would welcome the lifestyle that comes with having someone at your beck and call to do every little thing.

But thats my opinion. Others may disagree and welcome having people regularly cooking and cleaning the house....heck, the relatives I previously mentioned use their 'helper' to even do massages, and to carry out odd errands that they deem unworthy of their time and effort. When one of them came to the UK to study, he couldn't understand why people like me don't move back to Pakistan, and chose to live in a place where I had to do everything myself.

Actually the problem I see here with a life style like that, is that its hard to trust some stranger with your belongings. If you have expensive stuff like phones or tabelets how can you trust a stranger to sweep the area without taking it?

 

[ExpressPacer]

Generally speaking, trying to do a like-for-like comparison between someone living in the West and someone living in a 3rd world developing country is meaningless.

For example, some of my cousins in Pakistan, in far more junior jobs than mtself, and being paid a fraction of my salary, live in decent houses, have cooks and maids, and gardeners/drivers to do the odd jobs around the house and take the kids to/from private school and drive the wives to the stores, friends etc.

Myself, in contrast, despite having many times more salary, have a modest but decent house, my children attend state schools (although the schools are high performing being in a reasonably well-to-do area) and don't have anywhere near the same amount of free time as my cousins for socialising with friends. I don't have a gardener, meaning I mow the lawn and trim the hedges myself. As for my wife having a cook and maid to do the cooking and work around the house, and a driver to take the children to school - you must be joking!

On the other hand, I have far more disposable income to buy a new car, new tv, take the family abroad on holiday etc.

So who has a 'better' life? Him or me?

Incidentally, it's a similar argument in the UK between those who live in decent sized houses and cottages in quiet little villages in the countryside, with all that scenery, fresh air and healthy living, and those who live in cramped houses and apartments in polluted city air, but within walking, or a few minutes driving distance to shops, theatres, doctors, hospitals etc plus almost 24/7 public transport.

"Grass is always greener on the other side"

Bro, I'm very happy you wrote this. This is exactly what I've been trying to say all along. I'm not saying Pakistan would definitely offer a much better life or even a slightly better life. Life could be much, much worse. But there are the pros and the cons, which you have highlighted and is obvious you respect them. I suppose it would be mostly about weighing the opportunity cost.

One thing I'd like to add however is that, considering this post is about expats moving back to Pakistan and not benefits of living in Pakistan etc, I would generally consider them to be reasonably well off if they do move to Pakistan. This opinion is based on the many families and friends I have seen make the move back to Pakistan from UK, USA or anywhere in the west. Any-who, as I was saying, I would expect them to be able to afford a house where you do get electricity and gas all the time, where you do get clean fresh air, where you do get drinkable tap water, where it is safe for little girls to go out in the middle of the night and play on the streets, where you would only interact with educated people etc.

But, yes, it is undeniable that life for a poor person in Pakistan would be unimaginable for most of us.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I feel as though people are targeting [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] for being from a financially stable background. Not like its a sin. I'm sorry to say this, but either your parents or YOU yourself just didn't work hard enough to secure yourself a decent life in Pakistan. I think a lot of us living in Pakistan would agree that you can find a lot of success in Pakistan in terms of money and quality of life despite being from a poor family if you get educated and look for a decent job. Yeah, of course, it would take time, you're not gonna be the manager in your first year. Just like ya'll have to work at McDonald's or a coffee shop to support yourself early on. - Not even Lower Middle-Class. Poor.

I've lived all my life in the UK. My father came here when he was around 16, he was smart enough to realise it's better to leave Pakistan to secure a better for future for himself and his family which is exactly what he has done. It would have been stupid to stay in Pakistan in the hope he worked hard to gain the same financial security, luckily he wasn't a foolish patriot.

You say a poor family can become wealthy if they get educated? Education isn't free in Pakistan which is one of the main reasons the cycle of poverty continues. In the UK education is free so this cycle can be broken. A very strange thing to say.

As for those talking about corruption at every level, I'm sorry but living seven seas away, I don't hold your statement to be any true. It's simply not valid. You don't live here, you wouldn't know. The only department very famous for bribery in Pakistan is the police however, please refrain from stereotyping the entire police force on the basis of one province or even city. In fact, the police force in KPK in absolutely corruption free. There have been very few episodes of bribery. Mismanagement, maybe. Corruption? Not so much. I think Mamoon would second me on this as he has experience of living in KPK. The population of KPK is very much happy with the police, the same police you called corrupt.

If we start generalizing and stereotyping entire departments and institutions on the basis of one or a couple of examples then we can find more than just a few flaws in the West. Let's take America for example, the level of crime rate in Detroit is at frightening levels, much higher than that of Karachi. Heck, even NYC has a higher crime rate than Karachi but you could let that go considering it is a metropolis. So, I would request you to stop generalizing entire institutions.

It's fair to generalise the police as being corrupt in Pakistan. I assume you're talking about KPK since Imran Khan's party took power in this area? I can talk of my experiences and also know of experiences of people who have lived all their lives in Pakistan. I suggest you research the most corrupt institutions in Pakistan and you will find research which shows there are plenty and their corruption is of a very high rate.

As for my evidence of proving British Pakistani cab drivers, well I don't need to prove it. It's a well known fact, unlike what you're saying. But if you still insist, go to London, the most populated city and sit in a cab. I'm 100% sure he'll be a Pakistani. And not like there's anything wrong with that, there isn't.

Well known facts are not hard to prove, so go ahead.

 

[shaz619]

I've lived all my life in the UK. My father came here when he was around 16, he was smart enough to realise it's better to leave Pakistan to secure a better for future for himself and his family which is exactly what he has done. It would have been stupid to stay in Pakistan in the hope he worked hard to gain the same financial security, luckily he wasn't a foolish patriot.

You say a poor family can become wealthy if they get educated? Education isn't free in Pakistan which is one of the main reasons the cycle of poverty continues. In the UK education is free so this cycle can be broken. A very strange thing to say.




It's fair to generalise the police as being corrupt in Pakistan. I assume you're talking about KPK since Imran Khan's party took power in this area? I can talk of my experiences and also know of experiences of people who have lived all their lives in Pakistan. I suggest you research the most corrupt institutions in Pakistan and you will find research which shows there are plenty and their corruption is of a very high rate.



Well known facts are not hard to prove, so go ahead.

Mind him, Ameer Con the most famous taxi driver from Bolton England has created this misconception that all folk of pak ethnic origin are taxi drivers Ameer Con also won an Olympic Silver medal in the pick up and drop event at Athens in 2004 aged just 17 More recently, Sadiq Con became the Mayoral President of the largest Taxi base is London. Man I tell ya, even I am guilty of making such generalizations

 

[KingKhanWC]

Mind him, Ameer Con the most famous taxi driver from Bolton England has created this misconception that all folk of pak ethnic origin are taxi drivers Ameer Con also won an Olympic Silver medal in the pick up and drop event at Athens in 2004 aged just 17 More recently, Sadiq Con became the Mayoral President of the largest Taxi base is London. Man I tell ya, even I am guilty of making such generalizations

Don't forget our very own Moeen Toyota Corolla Ali doing pick up runs from Soho Rd to Strattford Rd which is why he can't make the PSL due these important commitments.

 

[Musakhel]

Naa these pathetic crybabies on this thread are worse. Should stop their compulsory once a year visits too TBH if they hate it so much. Like i said before, Pakistan is much much better without them. Brilliant post btw

Dw, give it 20-30 years their kids won't even recognize pakistani culture and threads like this wont exist,they will be totally assimilated.

 

[shaz619]

Don't forget our very own Moeen Toyota Corolla Ali doing pick up runs from Soho Rd to Strattford Rd which is why he can't make the PSL due these important commitments.

) Toyota Crolla Ali, how could I forget; this brother is the most stylish taxi driver in the city you should see him pierce the narrow gaps on ladypool road at speed even on a friday night!

 

[gkb101277867]

Have to say I've had a few weird experiences in Pakistan to say the least. Almost looked down upon in a sense with phrases such as BBCD etc. Also I remember being asked where I'm from in Pakistan and certain people making comments like " haha you think you're British...just wait until they kick you out one day". Some people almost seem bitter. I also recall going to Pakistan when I was a little kid and bursting into tears thinking that Britain was going to kick me out lol bcos of something someone said. Has anyone else had similar experiences?

In regards to the qs asked never say never maybe one day in the future lol. I'm not saying I'm planning on making the move I am just saying you never know how you might feel in the future. At this moment of time definitely not though.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

This is what is causing me the most sleepless nights these days.

My friend went back home last year and he works for an engineering firm that is building a dam near Jehlum and believe it or not he has crazy shifts like 22 days without a day off and long hours with no overtime. The job description said 5 days a week 9-5 job but he hasn't once left work at or before 5.

In Pakistan they treat the salaried class like slaves, and this is a highly skilled professional, now imagine what the mazdoor and low-skilled people are subjected to.

I don't think this problem only lies in Pakistan.

My cousin works for a law firm here in nyc, and he never leaves work on his "scheduled time." He's supposed to work from 9-6, but he told me that he's never left before 8pm. Sometimes he leaves at 12am. This is bound to happen when you pay is based annually instead of hourly as yossarian mentioned.

 

[gkb101277867]

I don't think this problem only lies in Pakistan.

My cousin works for a law firm here in nyc, and he never leaves work on his "scheduled time." He's supposed to work from 9-6, but he told me that he's never left before 8pm. Sometimes he leaves at 12am. This is bound to happen when you pay is based annually instead of hourly as yossarian mentioned.

Does this happen in the UK too? Everyone I know gets paid hourly

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

It is better to light a candle then to curse the darkness.

Piece of land doesn't mean much to me instead its the people. Been born and raised in a middle class family I have seen the pain of people. I hope I can do my little bit for Pakistan.

Shikwa e zulmat-e-shab sai to kahin behtar tha
apnay hissay ki koi shama'a jalatay jaatay

 

[ExpressPacer]

It is better to light a candle then to curse the darkness.

Piece of land doesn't mean much to me instead its the people. Been born and raised in a middle class family I have seen the pain of people. I hope I can do my little bit for Pakistan.

Shikwa e zulmat-e-shab sai to kahin behtar tha
apnay hissay ki koi shama'a jalatay jaatay

+1. I would live in Pakistan even if I am not able to do much to change the circumstances because this is where I belong. As they say, "Live by the sword, die by the sword.".

 

[humzy]

Not in its current state, I was born in Pakistan but came to Australia at an early age. Went back a few times but haven't been there in 10 years..

the poverty and corruption just turned me off completely ..

I don't like how family friends and some other people I met constantly tell me they can do anything in Pakistan and no rules apply to them because they have money or connections..

also the society is based around strict Islamic code which makes for a boring social setting in my eyes..

this is just my opinion so don't take it personally

 

[gkb101277867]

If I was a millionaire I would consider it. The life of the elite is so good in pak

 

[Yossarian]

+1. I would live in Pakistan even if I am not able to do much to change the circumstances because this is where I belong. As they say, "Live by the sword, die by the sword.".

So why haven't you moved there already? (assuming you're not already living thre currently)

 

[ExpressPacer]

So why haven't you moved there already? (assuming you're not already living thre currently)

Never moved out of Pakistan bro.

I have no problem if you did though. A lot of people have it tougher than in Pakistan than I do and I'm no one to judge someone else's actions without knowing the story.

 

[Amirforpresident]

Funny thing is that all those who are bashing Pakistan in this thread will not ever be considered Candian or British or whatever, they will be always Pakistani's in the eyes of the western people. Inferiority complex lol

As for myself, yes I would love to move to Pakistan. My parents are from a village where everybody knows each other and if I could get a job in a nearby city like Islamabad I would def take it.

 

[ExpressPacer]

]Funny thing is that all those who are bashing Pakistan in this thread will not ever be considered Candian or British or whatever, they will be always Pakistani's in the eyes of the western people.[/B] Inferiority complex lol

As for myself, yes I would love to move to Pakistan. My parents are from a village where everybody knows each other and if I could get a job in a nearby city like Islamabad I would def take it.

I second that. No matter what you do or no matter how much these folks tell themselves that they are equal citizens or whatever, they will always be 2nd grade citizens. But hey, if they're happy being treated as 2nd grade citizens then so be it.

As for you, hopefully you will man. I've seen economic activity rise to great levels in the past couple of years and hopefully with CPEC coming into prospect, we'll see a lot of jobs sprout.

 

[humzy]

I second that. No matter what you do or no matter how much these folks tell themselves that they are equal citizens or whatever, they will always be 2nd grade citizens. But hey, if they're happy being treated as 2nd grade citizens then so be it.

As for you, hopefully you will man. I've seen economic activity rise to great levels in the past couple of years and hopefully with CPEC coming into prospect, we'll see a lot of jobs sprout.

Not sure about this when it comes to Australia. It is a country built on immigration so half of the people have heritage from different areas of the world.

Over here you have immigrants in every position in politics, government and business. There is obviously racism to an extent however that is more ignorance coming from a minority rather then the country at large.

Equal citizenship comes from equal rights and we definitely have that. I doubt the same could be said if your an Afghan or Iranian immigrant in Pakistan.

I personally have never been treated as a 2nd grade citizen in my life and if I did i would gladly kick that person in the head because i have a right to call this my country just as much as anyone else, and no racist or bigot can take that away from me.

 

[gkb101277867]

I second that. No matter what you do or no matter how much these folks tell themselves that they are equal citizens or whatever, they will always be 2nd grade citizens. But hey, if they're happy being treated as 2nd grade citizens then so be it.

As for you, hopefully you will man. I've seen economic activity rise to great levels in the past couple of years and hopefully with CPEC coming into prospect, we'll see a lot of jobs sprout.

That's absolute RUBBISH. I've lived my whole life in the UK and I am proud to say that I am treated equally as an equal citizen. I've always had equal opportunities as others whether that is in education or employment or anything for that matter. But don't take my word for it. Some of the most successful people I know are British Pakistanis. The mayor of bloody London is Sadiq Khan for gods sake . "Treated as second class citizens " you must be having a laugh lol . Either that or you are just a jealous pakistani.

As far always being identified as a pakistani then I don't agree with that either. According to that every black person in America is African?. How about we stop referring to the white Americans as "Americans". We should refer to them as British as it was the British who colonised America in the 17th century. I could go on and on with more examples tbh

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Funny thing is that all those who are bashing Pakistan in this thread will not ever be considered Candian or British or whatever, they will be always Pakistani's in the eyes of the western people. Inferiority complex lol

As for myself, yes I would love to move to Pakistan. My parents are from a village where everybody knows each other and if I could get a job in a nearby city like Islamabad I would def take it.

Except that's not the case.

 

[Amirforpresident]

Except that's not the case.

Than please tell me how it is.

 

[ExpressPacer]

That's absolute RUBBISH. I've lived my whole life in the UK and I am proud to say that I am treated equally as an equal citizen. I've always had equal opportunities as others whether that is in education or employment or anything for that matter. But don't take my word for it. Some of the most successful people I know are British Pakistanis. The mayor of bloody London is Sadiq Khan for gods sake ����. "Treated as second class citizens " you must be having a laugh lol ����. Either that or you are just a jealous pakistani.

As far always being identified as a pakistani then I don't agree with that either. According to that every black person in America is African?. How about we stop referring to the white Americans as "Americans". We should refer to them as British as it was the British who colonised America in the 17th century. I could go on and on with more examples tbh

You don't need to get offended. This is just my opinion. Perhaps you've had different experiences but the people I've met have suffered some sort of persecution or racism over the years if not a lot. As for non immigrant Brits, the whites, they don't say too much but they're very annoyed over the increasing amount of immigrants coming into the UK and choose to live away from areas where there's a lot of immigrants.

Take for example East London, or even London on the whole, it is a White minority city now. Why? White Flight. Why? Take a walk through an East London neighborhood or just go to South Hall and you'll know. Sooner or later, there'll be more examples of racism. But I like you're optimistic.

 

[gkb101277867]

You don't need to get offended. This is just my opinion. Perhaps you've had different experiences but the people I've met have suffered some sort of persecution or racism over the years if not a lot. As for non immigrant Brits, the whites, they don't say too much but they're very annoyed over the increasing amount of immigrants coming into the UK and choose to live away from areas where there's a lot of immigrants.

Take for example East London, or even London on the whole, it is a White minority city now. Why? White Flight. Why? Take a walk through an East London neighborhood or just go to South Hall and you'll know. Sooner or later, there'll be more examples of racism. But I like you're optimistic.

Now you're changing the topic to immigration lol. Most British people (including my self) are not happy with the way immigration has been dealt with in the UK. There's nothing wrong with immigration infact its a good thing. The problem is TOO MUCH immigration.

Over the last 20 years there has just been too many people coming over. Especially eastern Europeans and from Asia. This is the result of that. There are areas in the UK where it feels like you are in Pakistan. There are areas where you feel like you are in Poland etc. Once again I'm not saying immigration is a bad thing. Just that it has to be managed properly. When it's excessive it leads to large areas such as whole towns being taken over and leads to communities being separated and integration of different cultures becomes a problem.

A lot of people are angry with the government for having such a weak stance in the past over immigration. Also it seems so easy to abuse the system too. I know of many people who have overstayed thier visas etc or came to the UK on false pretences (for example as fake students). The funny thing is a lot of the time even when such people are caught they are not even deported instead they just have to go to a police station and sign on every week. All this has led to a negative perception towards immigrants by the general public.

I can probably predict what you are going to say next. Something like "how ironic that you complain about immigration". Well my grandad came to this country in the 1950's when Britain was desperate for workers after the second world war. He never abused the system or done anything wrong. Once again there is nothing wrong with immigration but it needs to be managed properly. And the people of britain in general do not hate immigration. They are just furious with the way the whole thing has been handled by the government.

 

[the Great Khan]

Now you're changing the topic to immigration lol. Most British people (including my self) are not happy with the way immigration has been dealt with in the UK. There's nothing wrong with immigration infact its a good thing. The problem is TOO MUCH immigration.

Over the last 20 years there has just been too many people coming over. Especially eastern Europeans and from Asia. This is the result of that. There are areas in the UK where it feels like you are in Pakistan. There are areas where you feel like you are in Poland etc. Once again I'm not saying immigration is a bad thing. Just that it has to be managed properly. When it's excessive it leads to large areas such as whole towns being taken over and leads to communities being separated and integration of different cultures becomes a problem.

A lot of people are angry with the government for having such a weak stance in the past over immigration. Also it seems so easy to abuse the system too. I know of many people who have overstayed thier visas etc or came to the UK on false pretences (for example as fake students). The funny thing is a lot of the time even when such people are caught they are not even deported instead they just have to go to a police station and sign on every week. All this has led to a negative perception towards immigrants by the general public.

I can probably predict what you are going to say next. Something like "how ironic that you complain about immigration". Well my grandad came to this country in the 1950's when Britain was desperate for workers after the second world war. He never abused the system or done anything wrong. Once again there is nothing wrong with immigration but it needs to be managed properly. And the people of britain in general do not hate immigration. They are just furious with the way the whole thing has been handled by the government.

Sorry but Ive had enough of this immigration nonsense. britain should bend over backwards for immigrants who saved this country from their own hubris and stupidity. So waht if areas look like Pakistan or Poland? deal with it. Dont like it well you should have thought of that when you went trapsing around the globe

 

[gkb101277867]

Sorry but Ive had enough of this immigration nonsense. britain should bend over backwards for immigrants who saved this country from their own hubris and stupidity. So waht if areas look like Pakistan or Poland? deal with it. Dont like it well you should have thought of that when you went trapsing around the globe

Should british people suffer for what happened in the past? Do you think germans should suffer because of its nazi past too?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Now you're changing the topic to immigration lol. Most British people (including my self) are not happy with the way immigration has been dealt with in the UK. There's nothing wrong with immigration infact its a good thing. The problem is TOO MUCH immigration.

Over the last 20 years there has just been too many people coming over. Especially eastern Europeans and from Asia. This is the result of that. There are areas in the UK where it feels like you are in Pakistan. There are areas where you feel like you are in Poland etc. Once again I'm not saying immigration is a bad thing. Just that it has to be managed properly. When it's excessive it leads to large areas such as whole towns being taken over and leads to communities being separated and integration of different cultures becomes a problem.

A lot of people are angry with the government for having such a weak stance in the past over immigration. Also it seems so easy to abuse the system too. I know of many people who have overstayed thier visas etc or came to the UK on false pretences (for example as fake students). The funny thing is a lot of the time even when such people are caught they are not even deported instead they just have to go to a police station and sign on every week. All this has led to a negative perception towards immigrants by the general public.

I can probably predict what you are going to say next. Something like "how ironic that you complain about immigration". Well my grandad came to this country in the 1950's when Britain was desperate for workers after the second world war. He never abused the system or done anything wrong. Once again there is nothing wrong with immigration but it needs to be managed properly. And the people of britain in general do not hate immigration. They are just furious with the way the whole thing has been handled by the government.

Immigration has been handled by the govt in exactly the way they wanted it to be handled. They are not idiots who don't realise the consequences of their actions. Even the UKIP who were so vocal about immigration are backtracking now that Brexit is throwing up a lot of headaches when Europeans are forced to go back (which they probably won't in the end).

Inner cities need to be populated to make them work. With white flight, London would become a ghost city if it wasn't for immigrants. This isn't the land of Mary Poppins or some British version of Pleasantville where industry and business are localised and we shut ourselves off from the rest of the world.

 

[Yossarian]

I second that. No matter what you do or no matter how much these folks tell themselves that they are equal citizens or whatever, they will always be 2nd grade citizens. But hey, if they're happy being treated as 2nd grade citizens then so be it.

As for you, hopefully you will man. I've seen economic activity rise to great levels in the past couple of years and hopefully with CPEC coming into prospect, we'll see a lot of jobs sprout.

In the UK, myself, a number of family members, and many of the children/grandchildren of the Pakistanis who came to the UK in the late 50'/60's from the same villages as my parents/grandparents, have held senior positions, ranging from private industry, to the police and judiciary, to the UK civil service.

In contrast, had our fathers/grandfathers remained in their villages and never made the big leap (and sacrifices - as discussed in other other threads) of moving to the UK, then I doubt myself, my family members and the others mentioned above, would have risen to similar high positions in Pakistan considering that we wouldn't have had the privileged backgrounds and connections which are so necessary for reaching such positions in Pakistan.

So if you think that we are '2nd class citizens', often, as per our senior roles, managing/supervising '1st class citizens' (by virtue of their ancestors having lived here for many generations), then I'd rather be a '2nd class citizen' in the West than be living in Pakistan at this moment.

 

[TwilightWinter]

Most of the people here who don't want to move back to Pakistan are using the excuses that are not alien to us. They have pretty good reasons to leave, honestly. That doesn't make them a traitor and I would even say that doesn't account for the amount of love they have for Pakistan.
BUT.
Suppose the reasons they use are totally legitimate, and they were smart to leave Pakistan. Now, if they are right, then shouldn't everybody do the same? Besides, that's the smarter thing to do. Suppose everybody becomes as smart as they are, not only in Pakistan, but in even worse countries. Would that solve problems? It would only cause them. If they were right, and if everybody started thinking about himself only, then guess what? They aren't problem solvers, sorry to say. Wherever they live today, that place was a success long before they migrated. They didn't do anything for it. The people who stuck there, worked hard for it, and actually sacrificed things for it are the reason you see those places successful today.
While reading comments here, I have seen users here who are actually mocking Pakistanis for what they are going through. One can say, it's their own fault, and had they overcame what they lack and corrected their mistakes, they could've been in a better state. But they don't, even though they know they are mistaken. While others who claim to have the right thought won't come back to Pakistan. Then who is here to serve Pakistan? Greats weren't those who migrated to a better place, they made their place better. Just by typing some intelligent words in your signature textarea won't do.
It's just the way you think that matters. If you measure success by bank balance, your security and your knowledge then that's not a great thought. Success should be something that gives you satisfaction, and that earns you love, and when you die, people should feel the space.
AND.
If you can't do anything for Pakistan, then you are no one to criticize Pakistan either. Most of you even hide your nationality or lie about it when you need to. You're just a random person with a very very ordinary level of thinking, which you present as opinions. So thank you for going outside of Pakistan and letting us know how far behind we are, if we in the future become better, Inshallah, you can come back anytime, easy for you. Isn't it?

And this was my opinion, don't take it as I'm asking overseas Pakistanis to come back.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Than please tell me how it is.

Your entire premise is based on conjecture.

"they will be always Pakistani's in the eyes of the western people"

What proof do you have of this? You haven't lived in North America/Europe, so you're basing this upon?

I have lived in both Europe and North America, and no one will mention my heritage barring intrigue about where I am from and vice-versa.

There is racism/xenophobia in even Pakistan, so before you say look at America and their president, we have to look no further than Pakistan and the xenophobia we have towards non-Muslims in our own nation.

I am a successful professional who has two degrees and most if not all of my colleagues are from different ethnic backgrounds that would not be considered the typical "American".

You have no evidence to base your argument on. Literally not one shred of evidence. As in Pakistan where there are areas where certain people would be seen as as second class citizens, the same can be true in any nation, but holistically speaking, no one really looks at skin colour/religion. Shall we go into the same discussion about the treatment of Hindu's/Sikh's/Christians in Pakistan? Or is that irrelevant to the discussion?

I wake up, see people of all backgrounds, none of whom notice me for my background other than I am potentially different than their own. They do not look down upon me for that.

North America is built on immigrants. Canada is less than 200 years old and the population is as multicultural as it gets. Any racist comment can be punishable by law.

So no, I am not a second class citizen, and please do not use conjecture and your baseless opinion as fact.

 

[Amirforpresident]

Your entire premise is based on conjecture.

"they will be always Pakistani's in the eyes of the western people"

What proof do you have of this? You haven't lived in North America/Europe, so you're basing this upon?

I have lived in both Europe and North America, and no one will mention my heritage barring intrigue about where I am from and vice-versa.

There is racism/xenophobia in even Pakistan, so before you say look at America and their president, we have to look no further than Pakistan and the xenophobia we have towards non-Muslims in our own nation.

I am a successful professional who has two degrees and most if not all of my colleagues are from different ethnic backgrounds that would not be considered the typical "American".

You have no evidence to base your argument on. Literally not one shred of evidence. As in Pakistan where there are areas where certain people would be seen as as second class citizens, the same can be true in any nation, but holistically speaking, no one really looks at skin colour/religion. Shall we go into the same discussion about the treatment of Hindu's/Sikh's/Christians in Pakistan? Or is that irrelevant to the discussion?

I wake up, see people of all backgrounds, none of whom notice me for my background other than I am potentially different than their own. They do not look down upon me for that.

North America is built on immigrants. Canada is less than 200 years old and the population is as multicultural as it gets. Any racist comment can be punishable by law.

So no, I am not a second class citizen, and please do not use conjecture and your baseless opinion as fact.

Its funny you know. You are are telling me that I'm basing things upon nothing, while you are the one actually doing that.

For your information I'm born and raised in The Netherlands and this country is very multicultural, but does that mean that we are accepeted as Dutch people? NOPE
At this moment there is a deeply rooted hate in the hearts of a lot of Dutch people towards Muslims and people with other backgrounds.
I could live my entire life over here, but I would always be seen as an 'Allochtoon' which is a word they use for people with an ethnic background.

So where is my proof? I'm your living proof.
We will be never ever seen as Europeans or even equals.

And LOL at the part of me having no shred of evidence and then you go on about what happens in Pakistan. I dont care.
I love Pakistan but Im living in The Netherlands and I know what is happening here.

 

[Square Drive]

No, not at the moment because the sole reason we moved was due to my dad's health which wasn't very stable in Pakistan. Even then, it was a fluke application for Canada which somehow came through.

However, later on in life, I plan to move back and spend my retirement in Pakistan Insha'Allah. Want to die on my soul and die a proud Pakistani.

Some pathetic posts in this thread. Those whitewashed posters looking to assimilate and desperately trying to gain respect from the West should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[gkb101277867]

Its funny you know. You are are telling me that I'm basing things upon nothing, while you are the one actually doing that.

For your information I'm born and raised in The Netherlands and this country is very multicultural, but does that mean that we are accepeted as Dutch people? NOPE
At this moment there is a deeply rooted hate in the hearts of a lot of Dutch people towards Muslims and people with other backgrounds.
I could live my entire life over here, but I would always be seen as an 'Allochtoon' which is a word they use for people with an ethnic background.

So where is my proof? I'm your living proof.
We will be never ever seen as Europeans or even equals.

And LOL at the part of me having no shred of evidence and then you go on about what happens in Pakistan. I dont care.
I love Pakistan but Im living in The Netherlands and I know what is happening here.

You ARE basing things upon nothing. You mentioned the British people in your earlier post but you have never lived in Britain. According to you it happens in Netherlands and I won't dispute that as I have never lived there whereas you have. But plz keep the UK out of this.

How do people actually still think this when some of the most successful people in the UK are British Pakistanis? The mayor of London is sadiq khan for god's sake and we are second class citizens? Give me a break....

 

[IMMY69]

Born in Pakistan, brought up in U.K.

Since I'm married to a non Pakistani and have two teenagers both born and brought up in the UKI can't see myself moving back to Pakistan.

I am British through and through but retain a strong bond with Pakistan.

Both my children have visited Pakistan and are proud of their heritage.

Despite everything, never say never.
Who knows what the future may hold.

 

[Pakpak]

Have lived in Pakistan, UK, KSA and Europe. My Mrs is from Canada so I will be moving there permanently in the future. I have had a colorful history of places/careers, think I made an essay size post back in the day about it.
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION], one day I'll bump into you in Toronto

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Your entire premise is based on conjecture.

"they will be always Pakistani's in the eyes of the western people"

What proof do you have of this? You haven't lived in North America/Europe, so you're basing this upon?

I have lived in both Europe and North America, and no one will mention my heritage barring intrigue about where I am from and vice-versa.

There is racism/xenophobia in even Pakistan, so before you say look at America and their president, we have to look no further than Pakistan and the xenophobia we have towards non-Muslims in our own nation.

I am a successful professional who has two degrees and most if not all of my colleagues are from different ethnic backgrounds that would not be considered the typical "American".

You have no evidence to base your argument on. Literally not one shred of evidence. As in Pakistan where there are areas where certain people would be seen as as second class citizens, the same can be true in any nation, but holistically speaking, no one really looks at skin colour/religion. Shall we go into the same discussion about the treatment of Hindu's/Sikh's/Christians in Pakistan? Or is that irrelevant to the discussion?

I wake up, see people of all backgrounds, none of whom notice me for my background other than I am potentially different than their own. They do not look down upon me for that.

North America is built on immigrants. Canada is less than 200 years old and the population is as multicultural as it gets. Any racist comment can be punishable by law.

So no, I am not a second class citizen, and please do not use conjecture and your baseless opinion as fact.

Second class citizen is the wrong term, everyone in theory is equal in Britain, the laws are as fair as they can be to ensure there is no discrimination. But you are kidding yourself if you think that an ethnic has the same opportunities as the indigenous Brit, or even someone who could pass as one. In the invisible professions perhaps, like doctor, lawyer, reporter etc. But the ones which project public popularity like movie idols, the roles just aren't there. Not that it's anyone's fault, I would imagine that would change in the next couple of generations, but there are still restrictions based on perceptions of ethnic heritage.

Those guys who point it out are right in that in my opinion. Does that mean you would be better off living in Pakistan? Not by a long way, at least not if you are brought up with a western mindset. No disrespect to anyone, but Pakistan is better suited to those who understand it better and who have made it what it is.

 

[Syed1]

Due date coming closer and closer every day

 

[Syed1]

Have lived in Pakistan, UK, KSA and Europe. My Mrs is from Canada so I will be moving there permanently in the future. I have had a colorful history of places/careers, think I made an essay size post back in the day about it.
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION], one day I'll bump into you in Toronto

I won't be surprised if we end up having mutual friends. The Pakistanis are a close knit community here. Even though it is quite a large community you end up having some sort of connection or common friend/relative.

Mississauga (a Toronto suburb) is like little Pakistan. If Pakistan was a first world country it would be like Mississauga minus the flair and hulla gulla. I think the most spoken language in Sauga after English is Urdu.

 

[JaDed]

I won't be surprised if we end up having mutual friends. The Pakistanis are a close knit community here. Even though it is quite a large community you end up having some sort of connection or common friend/relative.

Mississauga (a Toronto suburb) is like little Pakistan. If Pakistan was a first world country it would be like Mississauga minus the flair and hulla gulla. I think the most spoken language in Sauga after English is Urdu.

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CSD&Code1=3521005&Geo2=CD&Code2=3521&Data=Count&SearchText=mississau&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom=&TABID=1

After English and French yes its urdu. It also has a very vibrant Hindu community atleast that's where my parents go for all their Hindu festivals eventhough they(Hindus) are few in number.

Also why the place is amazing is because of Hazel McCallion ,the city basically had no debt during her time although she was involved in multiple cases of conflict of interest.(similar to Shariff)

 

[ExpressPacer]

Most of the people here who don't want to move back to Pakistan are using the excuses that are not alien to us. They have pretty good reasons to leave, honestly. That doesn't make them a traitor and I would even say that doesn't account for the amount of love they have for Pakistan.
BUT.
Suppose the reasons they use are totally legitimate, and they were smart to leave Pakistan. Now, if they are right, then shouldn't everybody do the same? Besides, that's the smarter thing to do. Suppose everybody becomes as smart as they are, not only in Pakistan, but in even worse countries. Would that solve problems? It would only cause them. If they were right, and if everybody started thinking about himself only, then guess what? They aren't problem solvers, sorry to say. Wherever they live today, that place was a success long before they migrated. They didn't do anything for it. The people who stuck there, worked hard for it, and actually sacrificed things for it are the reason you see those places successful today.
While reading comments here, I have seen users here who are actually mocking Pakistanis for what they are going through. One can say, it's their own fault, and had they overcame what they lack and corrected their mistakes, they could've been in a better state. But they don't, even though they know they are mistaken. While others who claim to have the right thought won't come back to Pakistan. Then who is here to serve Pakistan? Greats weren't those who migrated to a better place, they made their place better. Just by typing some intelligent words in your signature textarea won't do.
It's just the way you think that matters. If you measure success by bank balance, your security and your knowledge then that's not a great thought. Success should be something that gives you satisfaction, and that earns you love, and when you die, people should feel the space.
AND.
If you can't do anything for Pakistan, then you are no one to criticize Pakistan either. Most of you even hide your nationality or lie about it when you need to. You're just a random person with a very very ordinary level of thinking, which you present as opinions. So thank you for going outside of Pakistan and letting us know how far behind we are, if we in the future become better, Inshallah, you can come back anytime, easy for you. Isn't it?

And this was my opinion, don't take it as I'm asking overseas to come back.

Good post.

 

[TwilightWinter]

No disrespect to anyone, but Pakistan is better suited to those who understand it better and who have made it what it is.

The OP of the quoted part is telling us that the Pakistanis who won't get out of Pakistan are of two types, (1) the ones who "understand Pakistan better" and (2) the ones who are responsible for Pakistan's plight.

1. My first thought after reading your first assumption is that you are talking about the people who are corrupt, thieves and primitives.

2. You're assuming that those who are responsible for/indulged in terrorism, poverty, corruption, illiteratacy and crimes are also the people who don't want leave Pakistan.

Opinion #1: Let us assume that immigrants were good people so they left Pakistan, but does that seriously means everyone else sitting in Pakistan are thugs? That's like saying, the guests who are not asking for ketchup are the ones who don't like ketchup. There are hundreds of other reasons for not asking for ketchup. Similarly, when someone doesn't want to leave his wretched country, that doesn't necessarily mean he/she is bad.

Opinion #2: Bizarre. There must be some problem with the climate here, I suppose, maybe that's why people become saints when they leave Pakistan. You said Pakistan is only left with bad people, even though you did not say that directly, but anyone who'll read your post will think that, and they won't think twice to go deep into the meaning.

What I am trying to say is that people in Pakistan aren't all bad, majority of them don't know the direction to follow, which is a shame. Since the 20th century Pakistanis are trying to find the right direction and have still not started sailing and now they're suppressed in more problems than they were. Root cause is no doubt illiteratacy and ignorance. But blaming everything on citizens is not a smart thing to do either. Pakistanis never got good leaders.

But every problem has a solution, escaping it isn't a choice. If everyone started escaping it, then no one will be there to solve it.

Conclusion: It's not Pakistan's fault, it's Pakistanis fault. Many Pakistanis who aren't leaving it want it to be better, not because they are bad.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The OP of the quoted part is telling us that the Pakistanis who won't get out of Pakistan are of two types, (1) the ones who "understand Pakistan better" and (2) the ones who are responsible for Pakistan's plight.

1. My first thought after reading your first assumption is that you are talking about the people who are corrupt, thieves and primitives.

2. You're assuming that those who are responsible for/indulged in terrorism, poverty, corruption, illiteratacy and crimes are also the people who don't want leave Pakistan.

Opinion #1: Let us assume that immigrants were good people so they left Pakistan, but does that seriously means everyone else sitting in Pakistan are thugs? That's like saying, the guests who are not asking for ketchup are the ones who don't like ketchup. There are hundreds of other reasons for not asking for ketchup. Similarly, when someone doesn't want to leave his wretched country, that doesn't necessarily mean he/she is bad.

Opinion #2: Bizarre. There must be some problem with the climate here, I suppose, maybe that's why people become saints when they leave Pakistan. You said Pakistan is only left with bad people, even though you did not say that directly, but anyone who'll read your post will think that, and they won't think twice to go deep into the meaning.

What I am trying to say is that people in Pakistan aren't all bad, majority of them don't know the direction to follow, which is a shame. Since the 20th century Pakistanis are trying to find the right direction and have still not started sailing and now they're suppressed in more problems than they were. Root cause is no doubt illiteratacy and ignorance. But blaming everything on citizens is not a smart thing to do either. Pakistanis never got good leaders.

But every problem has a solution, escaping it isn't a choice. If everyone started escaping it, then no one will be there to solve it.

Conclusion: It's not Pakistan's fault, it's Pakistanis fault. Many Pakistanis who aren't leaving it want it to be better, not because they are bad.

Not sure why you quoted me, I didn't say any of those things which you are highlighting as my opinions. Maybe you are addressing someone else's post assuming they are my views?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I take back what I wrote in this thread.

If Imran Khan becomes Prime Minister I will seriously consider moving to Pakistan and doing my bit by investing in the nation.

 

[Square Drive]

I take back what I wrote in this thread.

If Imran Khan becomes Prime Minister I will seriously consider moving to Pakistan and doing my bit by investing in the nation.

^^

Exactly my sentiments.

Obviously not now, but maybe after studies are complete, it might actually be a thing.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

I take back what I wrote in this thread.

If Imran Khan becomes Prime Minister I will seriously consider moving to Pakistan and doing my bit by investing in the nation.

Same, it's why I've been following this Panama case so closely. There'd be a lot of investment from expats wanting to settle in Pakistan because there's massive scope for growth and positive change

 

[KingKhanWC]

^^

Exactly my sentiments.

Obviously not now, but maybe after studies are complete, it might actually be a thing.

I think it would be hypocritical to support Imran and demand change in the country but if it happens after so much hard work people who supported this should also make a difference to Pakistan. My main issue with living in Pakistan was corruption.

I would definitely invest and live there in the winter months, doing other voluntary work as well.

Best of luck with the rest of your studies.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Same, it's why I've been following this Panama case so closely. There'd be a lot of investment from expats wanting to settle in Pakistan because there's massive scope for growth and positive change

Absolutely the potential is massive. I think IK himself said one day God willing people will come back to work in Pakistan. It seemed a lunatic statement at the time but not any more.

 

[Square Drive]

I think it would be hypocritical to support Imran and demand change in the country but if it happens after so much hard work people who supported this should also make a difference to Pakistan. My main issue with living in Pakistan was corruption.

I would definitely invest and live there in the winter months, doing other voluntary work as well.

Best of luck with the rest of your studies.

Agreed. Pakistan needs more educated people. Pakistan's the reason we're here.

Thanks bro.

 

[Abdul]

Nope. My opinion hasn't changed since the last time I posted on this thread and it won't.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

My heart belongs in this country. I loved my first year in Canada but the last month here in Pakistan has been the best month of my life. Will be sad to go back in 2 weeks

 

[Abdullah719]

Moved back.

Home is home.

 

[babajee]

Yes, once I’ve completed all my studies and qualifications and if a suitable opportunity arises.

 

[yasir]

My main gripe is with Army & Religion, and the culture it creates. Its not like we cannot fight that culture, freedom is not there to have that fight, those basis civic values will take time, it may not happen at all, whole thing has to restart, who knows... You need a vibrant liberal culture for society and country to progress, I don't see that happening anytime soon, not in my life time... Phir main na hee samjayaan

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Not in the next 10-15 years at least. Quality of education and the security situation would have to miraculously improve in the next couple years if I am to continue my higher education and start work there.

 

[aloo paratha]

Being born here in Canada, I could never imagine moving to Pakistan permanently. A part of my wishes my parents never left Pakistan so I could have spent time with all of my cousins, but after living here, I can't really see it happening. That being said I enjoyed every time I visited Pakistan, the life is just different over there, in a good way.

Even if I was to move to Pakistan, it would be for loved ones. Pakistan still has a lot of problems

 

[shokz1408]

I would like to visit Pakistan again for a couple of weeks with my family. However, being use to the luxuries in the UK, I would ideally want to stay only up to a month.

 

[Kroll]

I would like to visit Pakistan again for a couple of weeks with my family. However, being use to the luxuries in the UK, I would ideally want to stay only up to a month.

You can still live in luxury if you're willing/able to spend the dough.

 

[babajee]

I would like to visit Pakistan again for a couple of weeks with my family. However, being use to the luxuries in the UK, I would ideally want to stay only up to a month.

What luxuries do we have in UK that we couldn’t get in Pakistan?

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Moved back.

Home is home.

<3 wish you all the best

 

[shokz1408]

You can still live in luxury if you're willing/able to spend the dough.

What luxuries do we have in UK that we couldn’t get in Pakistan?

When I considered pakistan, I was thinking more the shared extended family home already there. And so, I was thinking back to my visit there several years ago, sharing rooms, the lack of UK style toilets in homes at the time, the lack of modern technology in the home, and of course the electricity going off daily.

I guess if one has a lot of money, then atleast some of these things can be addressed e.g. new house, toilets, technology etc. However, in terms of education, I would want to complete that in the UK, I believe that will provide for better opportunities here.

It becomes more ideal, if you can live in a modern home in Pakistan, in a nice area with every luxury available to you. That's tempting, and earlier in life there was a time I thought it would be nice to live in Pakistan. However, I like familiarity, so having lived 27 years in UK around a mixture of people and the culture here it would be really difficult for me to feel comfortable with such a big change, it would be like starting your life again in Pakistan with different people. If I can take family and friends with me, then I would feel more comfortable. You need the people closest to you I believe to truly be happy anywhere in the world.

 

[Abdul]

Being born here in Canada, I could never imagine moving to Pakistan permanently. A part of my wishes my parents never left Pakistan so I could have spent time with all of my cousins, but after living here, I can't really see it happening. That being said I enjoyed every time I visited Pakistan, the life is just different over there, in a good way.

Even if I was to move to Pakistan, it would be for loved ones. Pakistan still has a lot of problems

What? I've got a cousin over from Pakistan living with us for the next 4 years. Life is hell. I might just have to move out.

 

[gkb101277867]

What? I've got a cousin over from Pakistan living with us for the next 4 years. Life is hell. I might just have to move out.

Lol. Can't be that bad.

I dodged this bullet myself this year. It was touch and go regarding my cousin. He was planning on coming to study accountancy.

How is he/she coping and what do they think of the country? Which country is it btw?

 

[moghul]

I have been thinking about it, more now after listening to IK today and his 11 points agenda. If he wins, I'll make some investment in medical field in Pakistan and eventually will move back. I was very impressed with significant reduction in corruption in KP in my recent visit there, if that happens in Punjab with IK as PM, I see myself practicing and living in Lahore.

 

[aloo paratha]

What? I've got a cousin over from Pakistan living with us for the next 4 years. Life is hell. I might just have to move out.

Yeah obviously there are some weird ones as well, but as a whole they're loving.

 

[Kamil Shah]

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