Those who live outside Pakistan - Would you move back there if you could?

[ExpressPacer]

Unfortunately you are the victim of blind patriotism. There are a lot of problems with Pakistan. I would be a fool to leave England for Pakistan. Never understand why some people get so sensitive just because others don't share the same blind love for their country.

All this sounds like a fairy tale written in a book. I have observed Pakistan long and hard to know all this is a false lie.

Guys, please refer to my reply to KingKhanWC for your answers.

 

[ExpressPacer]

It's hilarious when these same crybabies wear the green shirt and upload selfies on instagram before a big cricket match with hashtags like #pakistanzindabad. If you're gonna bash Pakistan in public then there's no need for your fake patriotism either.

Haha, yeah, that's funny but what disappoints me more is that instead of being realistic and trying to look for the true picture of Pakistan, they, very much like the believe whatever the read in the papers and see in the media. This is the epitome of disappointment for a Pakistani living in Pakistan.

 

[ExpressPacer]

One more thing I'd like to add is that these people bashing Pakistan on here are the very same who are ready to smash their keyboards and announce a cyber-war against Indians whenever there is a cricket match or any debate regarding India and Pakistan but when it comes to such questions, instead of just answering Yes or No, they will go to new heights of making Pakistan look like a planet far off from Earth inhabited by monsters and cavemen.

I think I finally understand why India is on its way of becoming the next Superpower. Indian's or at least their "NRI's" have a sense of ghairat or as we call it in the English Language, "Honor". I have seen so many Indians return to India after they have made some sort of a life for themselves abroad and work for tirelessly for their nation - which is the main reason why they are where they are today. They feel a sense of belonging. And mind you, India was and still is in much worse condition than Pakistan ever was and never will be. With the majority of their HUGE 1.5 billion population in poverty, illiteracy and over 55% people (right now) with no access to sanitation, I think it was safe to say that they had no chance of ever eclipsing this. But they are doing, and they will, soon. Because of the people who loved their country.

Anyway, Pakistan doesn't you. Pakistan is becoming a better country and more developed country by the day and soon even the mass media will be a witness of it and will be forced to show the world the truth. Pakistan doesn't need you. But what angers every other Pakistani is that you, as an Overseas "Pakistani" should at least try to look for the truth instead of just being keyboard warriors believing whatever you read on the internet.

 

[the Great Khan]

one other thing. Whenever I go back to Pakistan I feel free. Truly free. i can walk around amongst my own and hear the azaan, and just take in the atmosphere. Warts and all. No other country gives me that feeling. The closest I came to it was in Turkey. The UK is home for now but Pakistan is where the spirit will always reside. For my children I dont know. They are way more brit than me but with a sense of what pakistan is. I guess they will learn as they grow.

Growing up in the 80's and 90's in pakistan was an experience that I will never forget..

 

[the Great Khan]

Anotehr thing I have noticed, the go getting nature of pakistanis as opposed to the gloomy slave mentality here in the UK..

 

[Yossarian]

Most British Pakistani's do work as Taxi drivers and the rich one's have their own mobile phone shops.

Obviously an expert on British Pakistani's.

 

[the Great Khan]

Obviously an expert on British Pakistani's.

I better get some passengers instead of spending time in my professional job..

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think I finally understand why India is on its way of becoming the next Superpower. Indian's or at least their "NRI's" have a sense of ghairat or as we call it in the English Language, "Honor". I have seen so many Indians return to India after they have made some sort of a life for themselves abroad and work for tirelessly for their nation - which is the main reason why they are where they are today. They feel a sense of belonging.

Ouch. When I was growing up we used to laugh at the Indians trying too hard to fit in, changing their names and indulging in ingratiating behaviour towards the locals who used to laugh at them behind their backs.

Seems like the tables have turned. Or maybe it's just we now hear the views of US Pakistanis since the age of the web, and generally US Pakistani immigrants on the whole tend to be more critical of their origins.

 

[Mamoon]

Coming from the guy who goes vacationing in the UK.

When we were in Pakistan we couldn't even dream of vacationing in such places. Our vacation was going to a slightly fancy restaurant.

Not all of us were from upper class families in Pakistan, hence we come from different realities.

If I was rich in Pakistan I wouldn't want to leave either because I could live in an upper class liberal bubble.

I very well understand the rationale behind people moving out of Pakistan to better their prospects since more than half of my extended family have been settled in the UK for more than 20 years now, and I am also aware of the reasoning that they provide due to which they are unwilling to move back now.

However, as far as you are concerned, and since you made this personal and I'm happy to exchange pleasantries, I'm not interested in your list of excuses, but who are you trying to fool by claiming that you don't want to return to Pakistan because of corruption? You might be a saint and I appreciate that, but it is most definitely not the reason why you don't want to move back to Pakistan. Let's just stick to your other excuses since they are valid.

 

[Mamoon]

Why would any sane person leave Europe or North America to return to Pakistan? If it was good they wouldn't have left in the first place.

Different people have different reasons, but one thing is common, i.e. they all want to better their lives somehow. Similarly, different people have different reasons why they come back/don't come back, but the excuse that 'oh we don't want to come back because Pakistan is corrupt' is a complete rubbish excuse that no one is dumb enough to buy into. There is no point in being dishonest about why you are not willing to come back.

Secondly, the gross generalization that if you are content in Pakistan then you must belong to a corrupt family is quite nonsensical, and given your posting history, it is not surprising that you managed to think that way.

 

[Mamoon]

not pathetic posts actually.

these people are being realistic and dont live in fantasy world and these are the kind of people i like.

Lets face it, in Pakistan the only way to survive is being street smart or else you will just rot. ANd i'm not even 1% street smart

No one is living in a fantasy world and no one is oblivious to the problems that people in Pakistan face and even people like you and me face even though we are financially secure.

Secondly, no one is forcing them to return to Pakistan with their brown angraiz kids, AKA American Born Confused Desis and British Born Confused Desis, but at least they should be honest about why they don't want to move back to Pakistan.

Do you honestly believe the legitimacy of the excuse that 'I don't want to return to Pakistan because of corruption and because I don't trust my neighbors'?

The holier-than-thou attitude is what irks me.

 

[Syed1]

I'm thinking about moving back in July-August.

But I'm getting a case of severe cold feet. Haven't slept well since the year started.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] has summed it up well and I will say it again. Some extremely pathetic and awful posts in this thread, very sickening to read.

So what I learned is that overseas Pakistanis who have the resources and the financial security/stability to return are not willing to do so because there is corruption in Pakistan and they are the beacons of honesty and can also be referred to as saints. Apparently, you cannot buy a bottle of ketchup in Pakistan without bribing someone. Clearly, everyone who is living in Pakistan must be corrupt.

I also learned that some of these folks are not willing to return to Pakistan because they cannot trust anybody, not even their neighbors.

Now having lived in Pakistan for 26 years, I am not sure which country they are referring to. Surely, we have our problems. Corruption is a major one, but it is certainly possible to not get into the corruption business if you desire, and much to their disappointment, majority of the people are not corrupt.

As far as not being able to trust your neighbors and having your mobile snatched, not every city in Pakistan is Karachi, and your neighbors will care about you than your neighbors in the West who probably don't give a crap about you or your existence. My cousin who lives in Warrington, has met his next door neighbor about 3 times in 7 years while my uncle, who lives in the Isle of Man, almost managed to get sued by his neighbor because his chickens in the backyard were too noisy.

The exaggerations in this thread are ridiculous. I'm from a financially secure background but that does not mean that everyone in my social circle is and I am not aware of - and haven't seen - the 'aam admi' problems in this country. The 'rich man bubble' that these people try to paint every one into exists but it is very minute. Generally, when you live in Pakistan, you are exposed to a lot of obstacles regardless of your financial background and my profession has allowed to see things even more clearly.

Nothing is worse than these people who will run away from the country at first opportunity and then talk crap and crap and crap all day long over how bad Pakistan is, even though they have hardly spent time in Pakistan other than the great 'ehsaan' that they do on their homeland by visiting for a few weeks every few years or so.

These people are as bad as those overseas Pakistanis who are completely oblivious to the problems in Pakistan and pretend that everything is nice and dandy. Both represent two extremes.

 

[Yossarian]

Secondly, no one is forcing them to return to Pakistan with their brown angraiz kids, AKA American Born Confused Desis and British Born Confused Desis, but at least they should be honest about why they don't want to move back to Pakistan..

Do you honestly believe the legitimacy of the excuse that 'I don't want to return to Pakistan because of corruption and because I don't trust my neighbors'?

The holier-than-thou attitude is what irks me.

As someone with, to use your words, "brown angraiz kids" please don't lump all of us as being "British Born Confused Desis" using corruption as the excuse for not moving back. For some of us it's real down-to-earth practical reasons why we won't move back.

Nope.

*** Grown up in the UK (born in Pakistan but taken to the UK at a very early age, before the age of schooling)

*** All education in the UK. Meaning little formally educated knowledge of Pakistani literature, history, culture, arts, music.

*** Ability to read/write urdu only at a fairly basic level (only taught a little at home, none in a formal educational institution by professional teachers). Therefore at a disadvantage compared with Pakistan educated professionals if I was to try and obtain a job in Pakistan.

*** Even if I was able to obtain such, my level of urdu grammar and vocabulary, when reading/writing memo's or documents in urdu if/when the need arose, would make me stand out like a sore thumb and may cause problems to my employers.

Foreigners working in Pakistan is not a fair comparison because they are working as expats, and hired because of their specialised skill set which probably required very little knowledge of urdu. Besides, translators and/or interpreters would be made available for expats - not so for non-expat employees, which one would be if they moved there on a permanent basis.

*** My own children are now at school and being educated as per the the national curriculum for England, and therefore would face similar issues if moved to Pakistan.

Having said all of the above, I have lived & worked in the USA, with my children attending American state schools whilst we were there. They had virtually no problems adjusting to the different educational systems, both when moving to the USA as well as when moving back. This was solely due to the similar everyday language, cultures and environment of the UK and USA, which would not be the case if we moved to Pakistan.


Overall, it would be naive in the extreme for anyone whose entire education was at UK (or USA) state schools to then believe that they would be able to compete on an equal footing with other potential candidates educated in Pakistani educational institutions (either in Pakistan itself or in Pakistani schools outside Pakistan) if their job required a decent knowledge of urdu (which would be expected of anyone considered as a 'local' employee. Different of course if they were classed as an 'expat' employee)

 

[Mamoon]

^ These are all valid reasons and I have acknowledged them already. I wasn't referring to the likes of you because I didn't see you mention corruption and unfriendly neighbors as your justifications for not being willing to move back.

 

[Yossarian]

^ These are all valid reasons and I have acknowledged them already. I wasn't referring to the likes of you because I didn't see you mention corruption and unfriendly neighbors as your justifications for not being willing to move back.

Corruption occurs everywhere. It's just that the British have had centuries of practice, have become the experts of experts at carrying it out, and are therefore much more subtle in their corrupt practices. It's the British 'stiff upper lip' that pulls the wool over everyone's eyes.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] has summed it up well and I will say it again. Some extremely pathetic and awful posts in this thread, very sickening to read.

So what I learned is that overseas Pakistanis who have the resources and the financial security/stability to return are not willing to do so because there is corruption in Pakistan and they are the beacons of honesty and can also be referred to as saints. Apparently, you cannot buy a bottle of ketchup in Pakistan without bribing someone. Clearly, everyone who is living in Pakistan must be corrupt.

I also learned that some of these folks are not willing to return to Pakistan because they cannot trust anybody, not even their neighbors.

Now having lived in Pakistan for 26 years, I am not sure which country they are referring to. Surely, we have our problems. Corruption is a major one, but it is certainly possible to not get into the corruption business if you desire, and much to their disappointment, majority of the people are not corrupt.

As far as not being able to trust your neighbors and having your mobile snatched, not every city in Pakistan is Karachi, and your neighbors will care about you than your neighbors in the West who probably don't give a crap about you or your existence. My cousin who lives in Warrington, has met his next door neighbor about 3 times in 7 years while my uncle, who lives in the Isle of Man, almost managed to get sued by his neighbor because his chickens in the backyard were too noisy.

The exaggerations in this thread are ridiculous. I'm from a financially secure background but that does not mean that everyone in my social circle is and I am not aware of - and haven't seen - the 'aam admi' problems in this country. The 'rich man bubble' that these people try to paint every one into exists but it is very minute. Generally, when you live in Pakistan, you are exposed to a lot of obstacles regardless of your financial background and my profession has allowed to see things even more clearly.

Nothing is worse than these people who will run away from the country at first opportunity and then talk crap and crap and crap all day long over how bad Pakistan is, even though they have hardly spent time in Pakistan other than the great 'ehsaan' that they do on their homeland by visiting for a few weeks every few years or so.

These people are as bad as those overseas Pakistanis who are completely oblivious to the problems in Pakistan and pretend that everything is nice and dandy. Both represent two extremes.

This post strikes me as true. I have sometimes wondered about what it would be like if I had no choice but to live in Pakistan, and the obstacles I always saw were more cultural than anything else. In England I can hold my own against most in any conversation or social event. In Pakistan I'd be a mental pygmy.

Even if I could buy the best and flashiest car and lived in the most swish city, you still know the driving standards there would be non-existent. Foreign countries make nice holidays in my view, and that's it. Otherwise stick with where you belong. Beats me how immigrants who can't speak good English manage to have any sort of life over here for the same reason. I can only assume they turn England into a mini Pakistan enclave.

 

[yasir]

One more thing I'd like to add is that these people bashing Pakistan on here are the very same who are ready to smash their keyboards and announce a cyber-war against Indians whenever there is a cricket match or any debate regarding India and Pakistan but when it comes to such questions, instead of just answering Yes or No, they will go to new heights of making Pakistan look like a planet far off from Earth inhabited by monsters and cavemen.

I think I finally understand why India is on its way of becoming the next Superpower. Indian's or at least their "NRI's" have a sense of ghairat or as we call it in the English Language, "Honor". I have seen so many Indians return to India after they have made some sort of a life for themselves abroad and work for tirelessly for their nation - which is the main reason why they are where they are today. They feel a sense of belonging. And mind you, India was and still is in much worse condition than Pakistan ever was and never will be. With the majority of their HUGE 1.5 billion population in poverty, illiteracy and over 55% people (right now) with no access to sanitation, I think it was safe to say that they had no chance of ever eclipsing this. But they are doing, and they will, soon. Because of the people who loved their country.

Anyway, Pakistan doesn't you. Pakistan is becoming a better country and more developed country by the day and soon even the mass media will be a witness of it and will be forced to show the world the truth. Pakistan doesn't need you. But what angers every other Pakistani is that you, as an Overseas "Pakistani" should at least try to look for the truth instead of just being keyboard warriors believing whatever you read on the internet.

Indians and Chinese went back because of opportunities, not solely for the love of country, billion plus is big market for anything... Those countries are somewhat stable, people started flocking back as economics and political stability curve was in right direction...

Overseas Pakistanis are no different, they would love to comeback when the tide will start shifting, Pakistan has gone from bad to worse in last 30 years, our army lives in their own world, they run the show, they don't realize its not 1980 anymore, their policies have failed and made country less stable, keep investing in those policies will further deteriorate the country, their vision has resulted in more extremism, less tolerant, and no economic progress... politicians and bureaucrats have field day in this env, they can milk lot of money...Problem is that environment is attracting wrong kind of crowd, not long ago, Pakistan was silicon valley of terrorist, everybody and anybody can do whatever they wanted too...People forget, it takes few hours to destroy a building or house, but takes years to make it, creating vibrant and open culture is far more difficult than creating

BTW: Once I heard Imran Khan saying 1.2-1.5M US Pakistanis make more money than 200M living in Pakistan. He also claimed that, he get more charity money from here in US than anywhere else, I am not surprised if that is the case...So its not like overseas Pakistanis hate Pakistan, we hate policies of Pakistan, the environment that is there right now...And its not just us, people living there wants to go out in large number...Once I heard, Shahid Khan(a US Pakistani billionaire, who was featured on CBS 60 minutes), the size of beards have to come down, society has to be more open for people to come back or build business relationship back home...

I can give you some number of my fellow Engineers, out of my EE batch of 120, I know for sure 40+ live in USA, another 20 in Europe and 30 in middle east...There are only 20/30 odd live in Pakistan and half of them are CSP officers(nothing to do with engineering) or have their own family business, other half went back (some because of family problems, others who have family business to take care), 5/7 are working in our University as professors, you can see how brain is drained out of our country...

Again there is nothing wrong with Pakistani genes, its the environment and culture that needs to change...Unless you allow liberals to thrive, people are not going to comeback and more will be drained in that suffocating environment...People don't trust that env to have fair chance and opportunity... And believe me, if US becomes a place where fair chance goes down the drain, people will flock from here too...

You don't realize, we cannot hold a Cricket match in Pakistan...No major airline has direct flight to Pakistan, that was not the case 15 years ago, we have gone in wrong direction for long time...With Raheel Sharif being made head of some Islamic Army, is another bad news, so Army is doubling down on Islam, that is terrible investment, it has served us no good in last 30/40 years...Keep drinking the cool aid of religion, lets see how far it takes you

 

[Mamoon]

This post strikes me as true. I have sometimes wondered about what it would be like if I had no choice but to live in Pakistan, and the obstacles I always saw were more cultural than anything else. In England I can hold my own against most in any conversation or social event. In Pakistan I'd be a mental pygmy.

Even if I could buy the best and flashiest car and lived in the most swish city, you still know the driving standards there would be non-existent. Foreign countries make nice holidays in my view, and that's it. Otherwise stick with where you belong. Beats me how immigrants who can't speak good English manage to have any sort of life over here for the same reason. I can only assume they turn England into a mini Pakistan enclave.

I think this is more of a first generation vs second generation debate. Being born to immigrant parents or immigrating at a very young age is certainly better than immigrating yourself and thus, not being able to assimilate properly. Most of these people don't have any foreign friends either in spite of working there for years. The cultural barrier becomes too big to overcome after a certain point. The younger you are, the better it is.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], you are the champion of this thread

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], you are the champion of this thread

Few other people have done a good job as well, and obviously no one cares if these people are not willing to return to Pakistan but is the lame excuses - as well as the gross exaggerations and generalizations - that some of them came up with to justify their stance that irked me.

I'm done with this discussion/thread though. Don't have anything further to add, only expecting lamer justifications to save the previous lame justifications.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] has summed it up well and I will say it again. Some extremely pathetic and awful posts in this thread, very sickening to read.

So what I learned is that overseas Pakistanis who have the resources and the financial security/stability to return are not willing to do so because there is corruption in Pakistan and they are the beacons of honesty and can also be referred to as saints. Apparently, you cannot buy a bottle of ketchup in Pakistan without bribing someone. Clearly, everyone who is living in Pakistan must be corrupt.

I also learned that some of these folks are not willing to return to Pakistan because they cannot trust anybody, not even their neighbors.

Now having lived in Pakistan for 26 years, I am not sure which country they are referring to. Surely, we have our problems. Corruption is a major one, but it is certainly possible to not get into the corruption business if you desire, and much to their disappointment, majority of the people are not corrupt.

As far as not being able to trust your neighbors and having your mobile snatched, not every city in Pakistan is Karachi, and your neighbors will care about you than your neighbors in the West who probably don't give a crap about you or your existence. My cousin who lives in Warrington, has met his next door neighbor about 3 times in 7 years while my uncle, who lives in the Isle of Man, almost managed to get sued by his neighbor because his chickens in the backyard were too noisy.

The exaggerations in this thread are ridiculous. I'm from a financially secure background but that does not mean that everyone in my social circle is and I am not aware of - and haven't seen - the 'aam admi' problems in this country. The 'rich man bubble' that these people try to paint every one into exists but it is very minute. Generally, when you live in Pakistan, you are exposed to a lot of obstacles regardless of your financial background and my profession has allowed to see things even more clearly.

Nothing is worse than these people who will run away from the country at first opportunity and then talk crap and crap and crap all day long over how bad Pakistan is, even though they have hardly spent time in Pakistan other than the great 'ehsaan' that they do on their homeland by visiting for a few weeks every few years or so.

These people are as bad as those overseas Pakistanis who are completely oblivious to the problems in Pakistan and pretend that everything is nice and dandy. Both represent two extremes.

I don't think it's about corruption alone but their lives ought to improve significantly seeking fruits elsewhere given that there are more options for progression, folk that are financially secure in pak don't have as many responsibilities when it comes to providing for their entire family including extended which is what I've seen from 1st Pak immigrants in the UK, they were extremely poor people who managed to come here and contribute to our great country of England through business etc there family's are in a better position now to. I don't think they owe you anything, I respect that Pakistan has its issues and one mustn't derail where they come from and there are many who do not but I think it's disgusting to want a fellow countrymen to remain in poverty and suffer along with their family in Pakistan chasing a dream which privileged people have the leeway to pursue.

Now sure once they settle and things go well then you probably say why are they not coming back now? well it's simple, they have settled along with their family in the UK which doesn't make it convenient to move back but that doesn't mean they can't help you guys whilst basing in a foreign land, I know folk who have opened businesses in their local villages and built roads/mosques in Pak whilst regularly contributing to charity whilst basing out of the UK but again, it's not a rule I don't think they owe you anything and I say that as someone who has an aspiration to help the folk where I grew up.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] has summed it up well and I will say it again. Some extremely pathetic and awful posts in this thread, very sickening to read.

So what I learned is that overseas Pakistanis who have the resources and the financial security/stability to return are not willing to do so because there is corruption in Pakistan and they are the beacons of honesty and can also be referred to as saints. Apparently, you cannot buy a bottle of ketchup in Pakistan without bribing someone. Clearly, everyone who is living in Pakistan must be corrupt.

I also learned that some of these folks are not willing to return to Pakistan because they cannot trust anybody, not even their neighbors.

Now having lived in Pakistan for 26 years, I am not sure which country they are referring to. Surely, we have our problems. Corruption is a major one, but it is certainly possible to not get into the corruption business if you desire, and much to their disappointment, majority of the people are not corrupt.

As far as not being able to trust your neighbors and having your mobile snatched, not every city in Pakistan is Karachi, and your neighbors will care about you than your neighbors in the West who probably don't give a crap about you or your existence. My cousin who lives in Warrington, has met his next door neighbor about 3 times in 7 years while my uncle, who lives in the Isle of Man, almost managed to get sued by his neighbor because his chickens in the backyard were too noisy.

The exaggerations in this thread are ridiculous. I'm from a financially secure background but that does not mean that everyone in my social circle is and I am not aware of - and haven't seen - the 'aam admi' problems in this country. The 'rich man bubble' that these people try to paint every one into exists but it is very minute. Generally, when you live in Pakistan, you are exposed to a lot of obstacles regardless of your financial background and my profession has allowed to see things even more clearly.

Nothing is worse than these people who will run away from the country at first opportunity and then talk crap and crap and crap all day long over how bad Pakistan is, even though they have hardly spent time in Pakistan other than the great 'ehsaan' that they do on their homeland by visiting for a few weeks every few years or so.

These people are as bad as those overseas Pakistanis who are completely oblivious to the problems in Pakistan and pretend that everything is nice and dandy. Both represent two extremes.

Champion Post !!! 100% Agree to every bit of it......

You have woken the Pakistani in me brother !!

 

[Zohaib Shah]

I personally think national pride should not come between a better life. In the Quaran there is no such thing as Pakistan. Which means the whole world could be our home.

Pakistan is developing structure wise. The way to run those things is a bit crappy. Like that new Metro fit in too many people. It had free wifi yet so many people squeezed in to the point where you could never even hold your cell phone.

 

[shaz619]

It makes me said to think of what has become of Pakistan, whenever am able to contribute to charity I always send help to Pakistan above any other place overseas. There are a quiet few of us born in the UK who do help when we're able to, one of the high profile examples is none other then Amir Khan; off course we rather make fun of his personal life then highlight the good he does. More expats should help in some way as well I guess once they have sorted themselves out

 

[Moiza]

I'm thinking about moving back in July-August.

But I'm getting a case of severe cold feet. Haven't slept well since the year started.

Which city will you be returning to?

 

[Syed1]

Which city will you be returning to?

Karachi..

 

[ExpressPacer]

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] has summed it up well and I will say it again. Some extremely pathetic and awful posts in this thread, very sickening to read.

So what I learned is that overseas Pakistanis who have the resources and the financial security/stability to return are not willing to do so because there is corruption in Pakistan and they are the beacons of honesty and can also be referred to as saints. Apparently, you cannot buy a bottle of ketchup in Pakistan without bribing someone. Clearly, everyone who is living in Pakistan must be corrupt.

I also learned that some of these folks are not willing to return to Pakistan because they cannot trust anybody, not even their neighbors.

Now having lived in Pakistan for 26 years, I am not sure which country they are referring to. Surely, we have our problems. Corruption is a major one, but it is certainly possible to not get into the corruption business if you desire, and much to their disappointment, majority of the people are not corrupt.

As far as not being able to trust your neighbors and having your mobile snatched, not every city in Pakistan is Karachi, and your neighbors will care about you than your neighbors in the West who probably don't give a crap about you or your existence. My cousin who lives in Warrington, has met his next door neighbor about 3 times in 7 years while my uncle, who lives in the Isle of Man, almost managed to get sued by his neighbor because his chickens in the backyard were too noisy.

The exaggerations in this thread are ridiculous. I'm from a financially secure background but that does not mean that everyone in my social circle is and I am not aware of - and haven't seen - the 'aam admi' problems in this country. The 'rich man bubble' that these people try to paint every one into exists but it is very minute. Generally, when you live in Pakistan, you are exposed to a lot of obstacles regardless of your financial background and my profession has allowed to see things even more clearly.

Nothing is worse than these people who will run away from the country at first opportunity and then talk crap and crap and crap all day long over how bad Pakistan is, even though they have hardly spent time in Pakistan other than the great 'ehsaan' that they do on their homeland by visiting for a few weeks every few years or so.

These people are as bad as those overseas Pakistanis who are completely oblivious to the problems in Pakistan and pretend that everything is nice and dandy. Both represent two extremes.

Thanks bro. Also, I could not help but laugh out loud at the first two paragraphs. The ignorance of some people has reach its absolute zenith.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Indians and Chinese went back because of opportunities, not solely for the love of country, billion plus is big market for anything... Those countries are somewhat stable, people started flocking back as economics and political stability curve was in right direction...

Overseas Pakistanis are no different, they would love to comeback when the tide will start shifting, Pakistan has gone from bad to worse in last 30 years, our army lives in their own world, they run the show, they don't realize its not 1980 anymore, their policies have failed and made country less stable, keep investing in those policies will further deteriorate the country, their vision has resulted in more extremism, less tolerant, and no economic progress... politicians and bureaucrats have field day in this env, they can milk lot of money...Problem is that environment is attracting wrong kind of crowd, not long ago, Pakistan was silicon valley of terrorist, everybody and anybody can do whatever they wanted too...People forget, it takes few hours to destroy a building or house, but takes years to make it, creating vibrant and open culture is far more difficult than creating

BTW: Once I heard Imran Khan saying 1.2-1.5M US Pakistanis make more money than 200M living in Pakistan. He also claimed that, he get more charity money from here in US than anywhere else, I am not surprised if that is the case...So its not like overseas Pakistanis hate Pakistan, we hate policies of Pakistan, the environment that is there right now...And its not just us, people living there wants to go out in large number...Once I heard, Shahid Khan(a US Pakistani billionaire, who was featured on CBS 60 minutes), the size of beards have to come down, society has to be more open for people to come back or build business relationship back home...

I can give you some number of my fellow Engineers, out of my EE batch of 120, I know for sure 40+ live in USA, another 20 in Europe and 30 in middle east...There are only 20/30 odd live in Pakistan and half of them are CSP officers(nothing to do with engineering) or have their own family business, other half went back (some because of family problems, others who have family business to take care), 5/7 are working in our University as professors, you can see how brain is drained out of our country...

Again there is nothing wrong with Pakistani genes, its the environment and culture that needs to change...Unless you allow liberals to thrive, people are not going to comeback and more will be drained in that suffocating environment...People don't trust that env to have fair chance and opportunity... And believe me, if US becomes a place where fair chance goes down the drain, people will flock from here too...

You don't realize, we cannot hold a Cricket match in Pakistan...No major airline has direct flight to Pakistan, that was not the case 15 years ago, we have gone in wrong direction for long time...With Raheel Sharif being made head of some Islamic Army, is another bad news, so Army is doubling down on Islam, that is terrible investment, it has served us no good in last 30/40 years...Keep drinking the cool aid of religion, lets see how far it takes you

Bro, let me clarify one thing, I too am against the religious extremism and the Islamism. But the fact is that there are two sides to every story. While such atrocious decisions are being made, the good ones cannot be ignored. Anyway, my point of writing this paragraph was not to say that Pakistani's are earning more or whatever. I just wanted to address the patriotism of individuals from a particular country. I was not trying to encourage anyone to come to Pakistan nor was I trying to show a false story of Pakistan and make it look like a 1st world country. But however, I don't think it would be right of me to just sit on my back and let people feed their delusion as to how "pathetic" life is in Pakistan. Or how if you are born into a poor family, you will always be poor. Or how everyone with a stable financial background is corrupt. Or how you can't trust your neighbors. Or how we have no source of entertainment and our lives are pathetic. Sorry, but no.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I personally think national pride should not come between a better life. In the Quaran there is no such thing as Pakistan. Which means the whole world could be our home.

Pakistan is developing structure wise. The way to run those things is a bit crappy. Like that new Metro fit in too many people. It had free wifi yet so many people squeezed in to the point where you could never even hold your cell phone.

That's the sort of thing that would annoy me, but then it's a privilege of living in countries with western standards where people can afford comfort and where regulations would be in place to ensure personal space and overcrowding wouldn't happen. Most developing countries are probably still decades away from catching up in that regard. I would just accept that rather than whine like an auntie as some do on here when they have to face up to the reality of where they came from.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Indians and Chinese went back because of opportunities, not solely for the love of country, billion plus is big market for anything... Those countries are somewhat stable, people started flocking back as economics and political stability curve was in right direction...

Overseas Pakistanis are no different, they would love to comeback when the tide will start shifting, Pakistan has gone from bad to worse in last 30 years, our army lives in their own world, they run the show, they don't realize its not 1980 anymore, their policies have failed and made country less stable, keep investing in those policies will further deteriorate the country, their vision has resulted in more extremism, less tolerant, and no economic progress... politicians and bureaucrats have field day in this env, they can milk lot of money...Problem is that environment is attracting wrong kind of crowd, not long ago, Pakistan was silicon valley of terrorist, everybody and anybody can do whatever they wanted too...People forget, it takes few hours to destroy a building or house, but takes years to make it, creating vibrant and open culture is far more difficult than creating

BTW: Once I heard Imran Khan saying 1.2-1.5M US Pakistanis make more money than 200M living in Pakistan. He also claimed that, he get more charity money from here in US than anywhere else, I am not surprised if that is the case...So its not like overseas Pakistanis hate Pakistan, we hate policies of Pakistan, the environment that is there right now...And its not just us, people living there wants to go out in large number...Once I heard, Shahid Khan(a US Pakistani billionaire, who was featured on CBS 60 minutes), the size of beards have to come down, society has to be more open for people to come back or build business relationship back home...

I can give you some number of my fellow Engineers, out of my EE batch of 120, I know for sure 40+ live in USA, another 20 in Europe and 30 in middle east...There are only 20/30 odd live in Pakistan and half of them are CSP officers(nothing to do with engineering) or have their own family business, other half went back (some because of family problems, others who have family business to take care), 5/7 are working in our University as professors, you can see how brain is drained out of our country...

Again there is nothing wrong with Pakistani genes, its the environment and culture that needs to change...Unless you allow liberals to thrive, people are not going to comeback and more will be drained in that suffocating environment...People don't trust that env to have fair chance and opportunity... And believe me, if US becomes a place where fair chance goes down the drain, people will flock from here too...

You don't realize, we cannot hold a Cricket match in Pakistan...No major airline has direct flight to Pakistan, that was not the case 15 years ago, we have gone in wrong direction for long time...With Raheel Sharif being made head of some Islamic Army, is another bad news, so Army is doubling down on Islam, that is terrible investment, it has served us no good in last 30/40 years...Keep drinking the cool aid of religion, lets see how far it takes you

I don't disagree with you, but the problem is, in countries like Pakistan a majority of the people don't want to give up the cool aid of religion, if they did, then it would be gone by now. What happens instead is that people like you will leave and then spend too much time taking potshots at Pakistan from wherever you are sitting now.

Me on the other, I will just say, if that's how you want to live, fine by me, who am I to argue? I guess the US was like that as well 100 years ago in some respects, overly religious, apartheid, slavery and crushing of the indigenous population and so on. Change takes time and best just to get on board with it and leave it to time to do it's work.

 

[shaz619]

Even back in the day how good were things if we're being honest? upper and middle class in Karachi and Lahore must have done quiet well for themselves including the elite and privileged. But Pak geographically mostly consists of villages, in such regions you have very few options; join the army or break your back ploughing the fields. Some managed to save just enough to make a trip to the UK where they would break their backs in factories this time except for better pay and getting themselves in a position where the quality of their family's lives improved significantly, very few know the struggles of suck folk so it's easy to belittle their decision to leave. It's not about corruption or having a disrespect for where they come from, many would tell you that nothing is quiet like being home but sacrifices had to be made for humanity because if we don't look out for each other then what more is there to life? family is everything.

 

[Black Zero]

I'm 18. I am dependent on my parents.

If it was upto me, I wouldn't have left Pakistan in the first place.

That makes sense.

Thanks

 

[speed]

Being literate in urdu is not a problem for those who wan't to move back. 45% of the population can't read or write but many are doing well, Plus it shouldn't be very difficult to learn since most people can speak and understand it.

 

[Yossarian]

Being literate in urdu is not a problem for those who wan't to move back. 45% of the population can't read or write but many are doing well, Plus it shouldn't be very difficult to learn since most people can speak and understand it.

45% of the population that can't read or write, but are doing well, are not trying to compete for employment in senior management/ project management roles or opportunities in white collar professions.

As far as urdu not being difficult to learn, being able to speak the language fluently as against attempting to read/write it from a basic level, to the level expected of a university educated professional, during your adulthood, and that too when you've been an adult for many years, is a tad more difficult than you might imagine.

 

[Adil_94]

No i wouldnt my family is from very humble backgrounds from a village in rural Punjab where most people lived in poverty its cos of U.K that we got some wealth and its improved the villlage and local area a lot.
Also prefer the lifestyle here compared to Pakistan village life which is boring. Im happy living in the U.K but i also send money back to Pakistan when i can.

 

[Moiza]

45% of the population that can't read or write, but are doing well, are not trying to compete for employment in senior management/ project management roles or opportunities in white collar professions.

What makes you think that urdu is needed to compete at the top level? I was taking your posts seriously before this.

Almost all of the top university graduates absolutely suck at writing urdu while some of them can read it a bit. Proficiency Urdu at no level in a professional career is of any importance in Pakistan anymore. Its shameful that people of this country can't read or write in urdu but that's how it is.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Please. If you're calling it an emotionally charged post just to feed your delusion, then I'm sorry, I can't do anything about that. You are saying that I'm not being realistic by saying that Pakistani's do not have better life than those of the Westerners. I don't buy that. Sorry, but we do. If you look at the average white collar person from both Pakistan and the West, you will see that Pakistani's in fact lead much better lives.

As for corruption, I don't really agree with you there. What facts and figures do you have to prove it? I'm sorry but if reading what the biased media tells you and forming an opinion from there is what you call your "proof", then you can keep it to yourself. Sure, there is corruption. But where is there not? Only 2016 American Anti Corruption department reported an assumed corruption of 200 billion US Dollars. So much for First World, West etc.

If you're going to try and sugarcoat things and think you sound very true and sophisticated, then let me assure you, you do. But that doesn't mean it is the truth. Anyway, I don't feel the need to argue with you anyway given how composed your oh so dear Western Education has made. Blaming someones family for corruption when all you know about them is through a cricket forum on the internet. Heck, you don't even know if his family is in the Govt. or not. He could be the son of a former princely state King for all you know..

As for talking about professionals, then if you are speaking of Pakistani Taxi Drivers in the UK then I'm sure that's such a promotion from being a salesman at McDonald's. Yes, I'm afraid this is the sad reality, my friend. No matter how much you deny it. Most British Pakistani's do work as Taxi drivers and the rich one's have their own mobile phone shops.

So what is the average wage of a white collar worker? Office based work can vary from administration work to management.

Corruption in Pakistan runs in all levels of society. You don't have to bribe police here if you don't have your vehicle documents, I think this point went above your head.

What evidence can you provide to prove MOST are taxi drivers? Not that there is anything wrong in driving a taxi for a living.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Different people have different reasons, but one thing is common, i.e. they all want to better their lives somehow. Similarly, different people have different reasons why they come back/don't come back, but the excuse that 'oh we don't want to come back because Pakistan is corrupt' is a complete rubbish excuse that no one is dumb enough to buy into. There is no point in being dishonest about why you are not willing to come back.

Secondly, the gross generalization that if you are content in Pakistan then you must belong to a corrupt family is quite nonsensical, and given your posting history, it is not surprising that you managed to think that way.

As you mention different reasons for different people. I was stating my reason which is corruption. I find it disgusting I get asked to pay bribes when I'm only going about my daily businesses. This might be the norm for you but it's a real turn off for me.

It was actually your posting history which encouraged me to make such a comment. You have defended the corrupt Nooras on here more than their own lawyers and you've probably done a better job too But I assume your family pays every rupee of tax they should?

 

[Yossarian]

What makes you think that urdu is needed to compete at the top level? I was taking your posts seriously before this.

Well if lack of proficiency in one's own national language for being hired for senior/ professional roles is not an impediment, especially if/when competing with other candidates with similar experience and qualifications other than the fact that they are, and unlike oneself, proficient in the national language, then that says quite a lot about the country and the chasm between the (as another poster mentioned) 45% of the population who can't even read/write and the educated/professional elite.

Almost all of the top university graduates absolutely suck at writing urdu while some of them can read it a bit. Proficiency Urdu at no level in a professional career is of any importance in Pakistan anymore. Its shameful that people of this country can't read or write in urdu but that's how it is.

In which case that could explain quite a lot about many aspects of Pakistan's economy, development, politics, the divide between the rich and poor, the literacy rate, the quality of schooling, the entrance requirements of Pakistan's educational institutions and their levels of achievement.

 

[King-Misbah]

Nope, I will not move back at all. These are my reasons:

- My life being at a risk due to lack of and incompetent security.
- I have to deal with corrupt individuals on a daily basis for small things.
- There are lack of job opportunities.
- General public is money hungry.
- Pakistani healthcare is crap and expensive.
- Pakistani universities are crap and education system produces robots.
- Lack of energy & infrastructure.
- There is a Pakistan within a Pakistan. A different Pakistan for the rich and a different Pakistan for the poor.
- Having a corrupt Prime Minister called Nawaz Sharif.

To conclude, some people are taking this the wrong way and call people like me unpatriotic. However, blame the Pakistani people who made Pakistan into a hell hole. People like me are just realistic and state the facts. The truth is bitter for some to digest it seems.

 

[The_KING]

You'd be surprised to know that not everyone hates Pakistan just because it's not more like the UK and the US. Really shocking if you ask me.

I don't hate Pakistan if you are implying that about me. I like Pakistan and I like going there for holidays but I wouldn't ever think of permanently settling there.

 

[blackanhyellow]

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] has summed it up well and I will say it again. Some extremely pathetic and awful posts in this thread, very sickening to read.

So what I learned is that overseas Pakistanis who have the resources and the financial security/stability to return are not willing to do so because there is corruption in Pakistan and they are the beacons of honesty and can also be referred to as saints. Apparently, you cannot buy a bottle of ketchup in Pakistan without bribing someone. Clearly, everyone who is living in Pakistan must be corrupt.

I also learned that some of these folks are not willing to return to Pakistan because they cannot trust anybody, not even their neighbors.

Now having lived in Pakistan for 26 years, I am not sure which country they are referring to. Surely, we have our problems. Corruption is a major one, but it is certainly possible to not get into the corruption business if you desire, and much to their disappointment, majority of the people are not corrupt.

As far as not being able to trust your neighbors and having your mobile snatched, not every city in Pakistan is Karachi, and your neighbors will care about you than your neighbors in the West who probably don't give a crap about you or your existence. My cousin who lives in Warrington, has met his next door neighbor about 3 times in 7 years while my uncle, who lives in the Isle of Man, almost managed to get sued by his neighbor because his chickens in the backyard were too noisy.

The exaggerations in this thread are ridiculous. I'm from a financially secure background but that does not mean that everyone in my social circle is and I am not aware of - and haven't seen - the 'aam admi' problems in this country. The 'rich man bubble' that these people try to paint every one into exists but it is very minute. Generally, when you live in Pakistan, you are exposed to a lot of obstacles regardless of your financial background and my profession has allowed to see things even more clearly.

Nothing is worse than these people who will run away from the country at first opportunity and then talk crap and crap and crap all day long over how bad Pakistan is, even though they have hardly spent time in Pakistan other than the great 'ehsaan' that they do on their homeland by visiting for a few weeks every few years or so.

These people are as bad as those overseas Pakistanis who are completely oblivious to the problems in Pakistan and pretend that everything is nice and dandy. Both represent two extremes.

There you go again, with that bubble.

You have no idea.

 

[moghul]

I am well settled here in USA, a high tech professional person but still miss Pakistan, more than ever now.

Security is the one thing I would like to be better, rest I can handle. Moving back is still not out of my mind yet and you never know.

 

[Moiza]

Well if lack of proficiency in one's own national language for being hired for senior/ professional roles is not an impediment, especially if/when competing with other candidates with similar experience and qualifications other than the fact that they are, and unlike oneself, proficient in the national language, then that says quite a lot about the country and the chasm between the (as another poster mentioned) 45% of the population who can't even read/write and the educated/professional elite.

In which case that could explain quite a lot about many aspects of Pakistan's economy, development, politics, the divide between the rich and poor, the literacy rate, the quality of schooling, the entrance requirements of Pakistan's educational institutions and their levels of achievement.

I don't get something, if we hold onto our culture and all we're labeled backward and not evolving with times but if we don't and get on with times by learning the world's most common language even then people have a problem. It seems to me that people are intentionally picking out things to have a problem with.

As to those mentioning corruption, yes it does exist but as Mamoom correctly pointed out it is not like you have to be bribe someone to buy a potato. In my 21+ years of existence I have only had to bribe an officer once and that too because I didn't have my driving license on me and I couldn't go home and get it. Similarly my dad has reached 60 years of age and he has never bribed anyone in his entire life and was about to eat me up whole when I told him that I did what I did.

Corruption does exist but whether you take part in it is totally up to you and this is absolutely incorrect that you need to get involved in corruption just to live. It makes life easier since you take unfair advantage of people around you but if you good morals you won't indulge in those practice in the first place. Even in government offices you can get work done without paying someone but Pakistanis have this superiority complex which prevents them from standing in line waiting hence they need to "bribe" someone just to make things move faster. These same Pakistanis turn into "insan kay bachay" when they leave the country.

 

[Yossarian]

....... In my 21+ years of existence I have only had to bribe an officer once and that too because I didn't have my driving license on me and I couldn't go home and get it.

[.....]

Corruption does exist but whether you take part in it is totally up to you and this is absolutely incorrect that you need to get involved in corruption just to live. It makes life easier since you take unfair advantage of people around you but if you good morals you won't indulge in those practice in the first place. Even in government offices you can get work done without paying someone but Pakistanis have this superiority complex which prevents them from standing in line waiting hence they need to "bribe" someone just to make things move faster. These same Pakistanis turn into "insan kay bachay" when they leave the country.

So on the one occasion during your relatively short adulthood thus far that you had a (very minor) issue with the law, you decided to bribe your way out of it?

The pertinent question should be "what prompted you to go down that route of bribing the traffic policeman instead of accepting the consequences?"

Was it lack of "good moral values" which you mention that at the first sign of a problem. you decided to resort to bribery in order to solve it?

Furthermore, you haven't mentioned why he stopped you in the first place to check your licence?

 

[Moiza]

So on the one occasion during your relatively short adulthood thus far that you had a (very minor) issue with the law, you decided to bribe your way out of it?

The pertinent question should be "what prompted you to go down that route of bribing the traffic policeman instead of accepting the consequences?"

Was it lack of "good moral values" which you mention that at the first sign of a problem. you decided to resort to bribery in order to solve it?

Furthermore, you haven't mentioned why he stopped you in the first place to check your licence?

When you dont have your license they give you the fine on your ID card and I couldnt afford to not have my ID card because I cant enter my institute without it. I had to pay an equivalent amount of the fine I would have gotten otherwise and I dont know if the policeman kept it for himself or not. It still is my fault and rather than the fault of the whole country like you have made it out to be in your earlier posts. The reason I was stopped was because I was overtook a car a little recklessly.

Either way I was addressing the notion you have that even the right to breathe in Pakistan requires you to pay a bribe which is certainly not the case.

 

[ExpressPacer]

So what is the average wage of a white collar worker? Office based work can vary from administration work to management.

Corruption in Pakistan runs in all levels of society. You don't have to bribe police here if you don't have your vehicle documents, I think this point went above your head.

What evidence can you provide to prove MOST are taxi drivers? Not that there is anything wrong in driving a taxi for a living.

I feel as though people are targeting [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] for being from a financially stable background. Not like its a sin. I'm sorry to say this, but either your parents or YOU yourself just didn't work hard enough to secure yourself a decent life in Pakistan. I think a lot of us living in Pakistan would agree that you can find a lot of success in Pakistan in terms of money and quality of life despite being from a poor family if you get educated and look for a decent job. Yeah, of course, it would take time, you're not gonna be the manager in your first year. Just like ya'll have to work at McDonald's or a coffee shop to support yourself early on. - Not even Lower Middle-Class. Poor.

As for those talking about corruption at every level, I'm sorry but living seven seas away, I don't hold your statement to be any true. It's simply not valid. You don't live here, you wouldn't know. The only department very famous for bribery in Pakistan is the police however, please refrain from stereotyping the entire police force on the basis of one province or even city. In fact, the police force in KPK in absolutely corruption free. There have been very few episodes of bribery. Mismanagement, maybe. Corruption? Not so much. I think Mamoon would second me on this as he has experience of living in KPK. The population of KPK is very much happy with the police, the same police you called corrupt.

If we start generalizing and stereotyping entire departments and institutions on the basis of one or a couple of examples then we can find more than just a few flaws in the West. Let's take America for example, the level of crime rate in Detroit is at frightening levels, much higher than that of Karachi. Heck, even NYC has a higher crime rate than Karachi but you could let that go considering it is a metropolis. So, I would request you to stop generalizing entire institutions.

As for my evidence of proving British Pakistani cab drivers, well I don't need to prove it. It's a well known fact, unlike what you're saying. But if you still insist, go to London, the most populated city and sit in a cab. I'm 100% sure he'll be a Pakistani. And not like there's anything wrong with that, there isn't.

 

[the Great Khan]

I feel as though people are targeting [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] for being from a financially stable background. Not like its a sin. I'm sorry to say this, but either your parents or YOU yourself just didn't work hard enough to secure yourself a decent life in Pakistan. I think a lot of us living in Pakistan would agree that you can find a lot of success in Pakistan in terms of money and quality of life despite being from a poor family if you get educated and look for a decent job. Yeah, of course, it would take time, you're not gonna be the manager in your first year. Just like ya'll have to work at McDonald's or a coffee shop to support yourself early on. - Not even Lower Middle-Class. Poor.

As for those talking about corruption at every level, I'm sorry but living seven seas away, I don't hold your statement to be any true. It's simply not valid. You don't live here, you wouldn't know. The only department very famous for bribery in Pakistan is the police however, please refrain from stereotyping the entire police force on the basis of one province or even city. In fact, the police force in KPK in absolutely corruption free. There have been very few episodes of bribery. Mismanagement, maybe. Corruption? Not so much. I think Mamoon would second me on this as he has experience of living in KPK. The population of KPK is very much happy with the police, the same police you called corrupt.

If we start generalizing and stereotyping entire departments and institutions on the basis of one or a couple of examples then we can find more than just a few flaws in the West. Let's take America for example, the level of crime rate in Detroit is at frightening levels, much higher than that of Karachi. Heck, even NYC has a higher crime rate than Karachi but you could let that go considering it is a metropolis. So, I would request you to stop generalizing entire institutions.

As for my evidence of proving British Pakistani cab drivers, well I don't need to prove it. It's a well known fact, unlike what you're saying. But if you still insist, go to London, the most populated city and sit in a cab. I'm 100% sure he'll be a Pakistani. And not like there's anything wrong with that, there isn't.

I think the problem we have is there is a Pakistan for those that go there on holiday and there is a Pakistan for those that live there. I have done both. And it is different. I'll be honest , I loved growing up there especially islamabad. When Iw as in karachi i just wanted to go back to the UK but islamabad well i wanted to stay there. i didnt want to leave. But as is the norm with pakistani parents you go where they go.

My uncle didnt leave pakistan. he studied under a streetlight in karachi and eventually became CEO/Gm of PSO. My other uncle didnt leave the village and worked on his fields while earning some money working for the local council. He died young (65) of lung cancer coz he smoked too much. But they were happy and got on with things. My uncle (PSO one) eventually passed recently but his son is now finance director of cadbury's asia. they never left Pakistan. But other cousins did and some didnt. most of the ones in the village or small tons left because the job opportunities and the lure of valiat. Some came here and went back..it goes both ways..

Moving onto other issues, I married a pakistani, my Mum lives in pakistan, my in laws are in pakistan, but my kids wont be pakistani. Theyll be british. and they will lose out. Pakistan made me. End of. Britain nearly broke me. And then a pakistani fixed me again. So i owe it.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I think the problem we have is there is a Pakistan for those that go there on holiday and there is a Pakistan for those that live there. I have done both. And it is different. I'll be honest , I loved growing up there especially islamabad. When Iw as in karachi i just wanted to go back to the UK but islamabad well i wanted to stay there. i didnt want to leave. But as is the norm with pakistani parents you go where they go.

My uncle didnt leave pakistan. he studied under a streetlight in karachi and eventually became CEO/Gm of PSO. My other uncle didnt leave the village and worked on his fields while earning some money working for the local council. He died young (65) of lung cancer coz he smoked too much. But they were happy and got on with things. My uncle (PSO one) eventually passed recently but his son is now finance director of cadbury's asia. they never left Pakistan. But other cousins did and some didnt. most of the ones in the village or small tons left because the job opportunities and the lure of valiat. Some came here and went back..it goes both ways..

Moving onto other issues, I married a pakistani, my Mum lives in pakistan, my in laws are in pakistan, but my kids wont be pakistani. Theyll be british. and they will lose out. Pakistan made me. End of. Britain nearly broke me. And then a pakistani fixed me again. So i owe it.

Very happy for your uncle and his son. That is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't buy this theory of there being no jobs in Pakistan, especially for those people who have work experience in the West, as this thread is about people moving back to Pakistan. My parents do not come from exorbitant backgrounds but with just a bit of hard work, they have provided themselves with a financially secure background. And us as children with lives many would dream of. And now this is becoming the norm, more and more people are getting educated and breaking into the higher class of the society.

As for Islamabad, well, I too grew up in Islamabad. In fact, I still am and honestly, I don't think I can ever leave. Islamabad is just so full of life and beauty. Everything you would ever want. You get that first world feel here. Also, just so you know, growing up in Islamabad and studying in different schools and colleges, I've seen a lot of British Pakistani kids having moved back to Pakistan and loving it. So, not like there isn't any hope.

 

[Kean0]

I was born in the UK and spent 8 year from years 2-9.

I am 33 now.

I used to think one day I would like to go back but i think, I like many, have become very comfortable in our UK (or any other country) life styles.

I will always have a place for Pak in my heart, I will always be proud of my heritage, will be proud of Pakistan and will bring my kids up to speak Urdu/Punjabi and encourage them to be proud of their ethnicity.

Having said that I would not live in Pakistan given the gaping margin between the rich and the poor. I could very easily afford an easy going lavish lifestyle in Pakistan but I can not bring myself to live like that when many other around me suffer. I will not have my kids be brought up thinking they have a silver spoon in their mouths.

I think the final nail is the culture in Pakistan, rich stay rich and the poor get used like door mats.

On a more personal note and this is not true for every family but I have seen my cousins sit on their a$$ as they live off their rich parents and have no drive to achieve anything in life.

I'll be staying in the UK, do my 9-5 job, pay the bills and taxs and finally go to my grave.

 

[Yossarian]

When you dont have your license they give you the fine on your ID card and I couldnt afford to not have my ID card because I cant enter my institute without it. I had to pay an equivalent amount of the fine I would have gotten otherwise and I dont know if the policeman kept it for himself or not. It still is my fault and rather than the fault of the whole country like you have made it out to be in your earlier posts. The reason I was stopped was because I was overtook a car a little recklessly.

Either way I was addressing the notion you have that even the right to breathe in Pakistan requires you to pay a bribe which is certainly not the case.

Nope, I've never said. You're making up a false accusation with your attempt to excuse your own act of bribery.

The fact that your ID card would have shown that you broke the law (with your reckless driving ) and thus may have affected your ability to enter your institute is something that you should have thought of before breaking the law.

Reckless driving kills people, and your reckless driving put innocent lives in danger. And after being caught by the law for doing so, you avoided the consequences with a further act of breaking the law, ie bribery.

And yet here you are having the gall to criticise others on the topic of corruption!

 

[Moiza]

Nope, I've never said. You're making up a false accusation with your attempt to excuse your own act of bribery.

The fact that your ID card would have shown that you broke the law (with your reckless driving ) and thus may have affected your ability to enter your institute is something that you should have thought of before breaking the law.

Reckless driving kills people, and your reckless driving put innocent lives in danger. And after being caught by the law for doing so, you avoided the consequences with a further act of breaking the law, ie bribery.

And yet here you are having the gall to criticise others on the topic of corruption!

Overtaking a car without using the indicator is not a fineable offense in Pakistan The officer upon seeing how young I was and what I did stopped me, it had nothing to do with me breaking the law.

 

[Yossarian]

Overtaking a car without using the indicator is not a fineable offense in Pakistan The officer upon seeing how young I was and what I did stopped me, it had nothing to do with me breaking the law.

To use your own words, you 'overtook a car a little recklessly'.

The reason I was stopped was because I was overtook a car a little recklessly..

Reckless driving kills. Period. Perhaps that why Pakistan has such high road accident fatality rates due to reckless driving. Especially if the well off can get away with it if/when caught using bribery, as you admit you have done (you have to be reasonably well off by Pakistani standards if you own or have the personal use of a car at around the age of 20)

 

[Moiza]

To use your own words, you 'overtook a car a little recklessly'.
Reckless driving kills. Period. Perhaps that why Pakistan has such high road accident fatality rates due to reckless driving. Especially if the well off can get away with it if/when caught using bribery, as you admit you have done (you have to be reasonably well off by Pakistani standards if you own or have the personal use of a car at around the age of 20)

My father was an orphan (from 17 years old) from kashmir who studied throughout his life on scholarships and loans. My dad has reached 60 and now we are considered middle class in islamabad. Yeah, I'd say we have had it better than most of Pakistan

And I'm pretty sure people in other countries too overtake a car without giving the indicator and in a little reckless manner.

 

[Yossarian]

And I'm pretty sure people in other countries too overtake a car without giving the indicator and in a little reckless manner.

Yes they do. But if they get caught, unlike your own admission, they don't bribe the police to let them off. They have to pay the consequences of breaking the law by driving recklessly and getting caught, whereas trying to bribe the police will result in a lengthy jail sentence - no matter how rich and powerful you are.

Moiza, there's a saying in England "When you're in a hole, stop digging".

You started off by claiming that you paid a bribe for not showing your driving licence. Followed by, when asked as to why the police wished to see your driving licence, admitting that you were stopped because you were caught driving recklessly. See the trend? I suggest you stop digging.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Sometimes you are forced to be signed In.


Does Islam or Humanity or Humanism or whatever teaches one generalisation and indirect or direct accusations at people or their families when you do not even have a clue ?


I remember few months ago someone took digs at me and my family that since I have moved out of Pakistan for MSc I am damaging Pakistan by opting for a Top 100 ranked University. As if it was my mistake if my country doesn't have a good university or research oppurtunities in the field I have chosen.


Than somebody assumed that I am able to pay the fee because my family have earned money through corruption and we are tax evaders aswell as otherwise there is no way a 50 plus couple can afford his child studying abroad. I even did not mention whether I am getting any funding or not.


Than there were also many other personal shots aimed at my family.



Than I had to open up and write a booklet on struggles of my family where my grandfathers did not even have a cycle yet he lived his entire life with dead honesty and their prayers, surveillance and guidance helped their children to study through government schools, colleges and universities and make decent careers Alhamdoulillah.



Ex-Pakistanis or Ex Pats or Overseas Pakistanis do not need to target posters they know nothing about. Every well off person in Pakistan is not corrupt, immoral.



Islamic or Semi Islamic people should know that Allah promises to give Rizq if you strive. Allah never says that if you are living in X country for instance in Pakistan than your financial status cannot improve despite striving or your Rizq will be limited.



Love of Your Country Is Part of Your Eemaan Prophet Muhammad Pbuh


If we love our country than do not call our love for our homeland as blind patriotism. You love your country we don't have any issues and also support your country which you call your home when it competes with Us in Sports aswell. As per Islam your country should come first for you than why you support the country which is not your home ? A country which you don't think is your homeland ? Why ? Do you have some identity crisis ?


Do not defame Pakistan needlessly on Internet forums by saying You cannot come out of Airport in Pakistan without bribing. Open up why you feel the need to bribe people for your legitimate belongings and legitimate documents.


Do you even know what a " Blaa " PSO CEO is ?

Do you know what is the pay of Boiler Engineer in PPL ?


Do you know about friends who used to buy 1 book and cut it from centre and share it ? Because they could not afford it ? Not you but ALLAH blessed their hardwork and they became chief engineers.



Those who could not afford a cold drink more than twice yearly today after 2-3 decades are established higher middle class or lower eliter class people with honesty and hardwork.



Rizq jis ne dena hai wo UK, USA, CANADA, AUSTRALIA, PAKISTAN, INDIA etc etc sub ka same hai.



Those of you who have called Pakistan
" Hell Hole " , " Slum " , " Filth " etc etc I wonder with which face you will be supporting Pakistan Cricket Team.



Do justified criticism. If Pakistan is or was only your holidays destination than don't try to become experts about Pakistan when you know nothing.



Love your country. May Allah lead you all to happy successful blessed lives in your home your countries. Keep investing your energies for the progress and prosperity of your Countries. May your home flourish and progress even more with you putting in your DUE hand as you are indebted to your blue, red or whatever Passports morally ethically but


Don't take dig at Country and its Citizens you know not in this case PAKISTAN.

 

[Yossarian]

Don't take dig at Country and its Citizens you know not in this case PAKISTAN.

Most of the digs at Pakistan on this forum generally are by those who live in, and not outside, Pakistan. In fact, most of those who live outside Pakistan are more understanding of what goes on inside Pakistan, and the trials and tribulations of everyday life by the average Pakistani, as compared with the comments of posters who reside inside Pakistan itself.

 

[Moiza]

Yes they do. But if they get caught, unlike your own admission, they don't bribe the police to let them off. They have to pay the consequences of breaking the law by driving recklessly and getting caught, whereas trying to bribe the police will result in a lengthy jail sentence - no matter how rich and powerful you are.

Moiza, there's a saying in England "When you're in a hole, stop digging".

You started off by claiming that you paid a bribe for not showing your driving licence. Followed by, when asked as to why the police wished to see your driving licence, admitting that you were stopped because you were caught driving recklessly. See the trend? I suggest you stop digging.

This is my last attempt to explain something to you. What I did was not an offense. It's quite common in Pakistan for Underage children to be driving so the traffic police stops teens quite often to check if they have their license or not. I was stopped not for bre

aking the law but for checking if I have the license to drive. Do you understand?

 

[Moiza]

Most of the digs at Pakistan on this forum generally are by those who live in, and not outside, Pakistan. In fact, most of those who live outside Pakistan are more understanding of what goes on inside Pakistan, and the trials and tribulations of everyday life by the average Pakistani, as compared with the comments of posters who reside inside Pakistan itself.

Please go through this thread once again to see whether the persons taking a dig at Pakistan are living in Pakistan or not. : )

Obviously the posters outside Pakistan understand what we go through better than the poster living in Pakistan, afterall we just live in Pakistan and there's no way we might be right without being "fake patriotics". I'm sure the posters who reside outside are well aware of everything that goes on here based on the news you hear and read and the holiday trips they're forced to make.

Im not saying every post by posters abroad is wrong. Many of the posts were 100% true but there are some who have made Pakistan look like a 3rd world slum with no future unless you're born rich or in a corrupt family which unfortunately for those posters isn't true.

 

[Zohaib Shah]

but there are some who have made Pakistan look like a 3rd world slum with no future unless you're born rich or in a corrupt family which unfortunately for those posters isn't true.

You do know this thread is about posters who live aboard and there thoughts on moving back to Pakistan right? If they see no future there it means they see it where they live. Why would anyone go back to another country when they already have a settled living?

Now as for you Pakistani's living in Pakistan thats a whole different story. You were raised there, you were born there that means you have already gotten used to the living standards there. What ever you think won't be the same for a outsider. Adjusting into a business culture in Pakistan is very difficult. For someone who has worked outside most of there life. Thats not the same for a Pakistani living in Pakistan however.

 

[Zohaib Shah]

I am going to be honest. There is a lot of corruption in the states. Its not just from the higher ups but from the people themselves. I used to work in a cell phone service providing franchise. Over there I met all kinds of people ready to rip me off as I was with them. The major difference is though the consquences they would have to pay for breaking the law. The fear of police is the cause of making things more diciplined. Thats not the same in Pakistan. Pakistan in general is not so developed professionally. Education is the key to making the culture seem more professional. Its professional in some places but not all places. Which is one reason why those living aboard would not wanna live there.

 

[Syed1]

I would know the day Pakistan has changed when people would stop at a red light even in a secluded road late at night.

Whenever I visit Pakistan and do the Canadian thing off stopping at red lights, I get honked from behind. Mein bhi dheet hoon, aek inch agay nahi bharta, bajatay rahay apna horn hehe

 

[Yossarian]

This is my last attempt to explain something to you. What I did was not an offense. It's quite common in Pakistan for Underage children to be driving so the traffic police stops teens quite often to check if they have their license or not. I was stopped not for bre

aking the law but for checking if I have the license to drive. Dothat you understand?

Now you're changing what you've written before. You stated

The reason I was stopped was because I was overtook a car a little recklessly.

Driving recklessly is breaking the law. Everywhere. In every country.

Had you been in the right (and not broken the law), you wouldn't have bribed a policeman to let you off! Innocent people don't bribe traffic policemen to let them off. Unless of course you are saying that the policeman who stopped you was corrupt and he deliberately stopped you in order to extort money from you?

Put simply, you have admitted paying a bribe. Now that can only be for one of
two reasons:

1. The policeman was corrupt, and he stopped you for no reason, but simply to extort money from you.
or
2. The policeman stopped you because you broke the law. And in order to avoid punishment, you bribed the policeman to let you off.

Either way, there was bribery and corruption, and possible extortion. And you are complaining about some posters suggesting corruption is rife in Pakistan?

Although I was not one of the posters who claimed there was widespread corruption in Pakistan, however, going by the denial ... admission ... denial hip-hop you've shown in your posts, I'm coming around to their point of view!

 

[Syed1]

You do know this thread is about posters who live aboard and there thoughts on moving back to Pakistan right? If they see no future there it means they see it where they live. Why would anyone go back to another country when they already have a settled living?

Now as for you Pakistani's living in Pakistan thats a whole different story. You were raised there, you were born there that means you have already gotten used to the living standards there. What ever you think won't be the same for a outsider. Adjusting into a business culture in Pakistan is very difficult. For someone who has worked outside most of there life. Thats not the same for a Pakistani living in Pakistan however.

This is what is causing me the most sleepless nights these days.

My friend went back home last year and he works for an engineering firm that is building a dam near Jehlum and believe it or not he has crazy shifts like 22 days without a day off and long hours with no overtime. The job description said 5 days a week 9-5 job but he hasn't once left work at or before 5.

In Pakistan they treat the salaried class like slaves, and this is a highly skilled professional, now imagine what the mazdoor and low-skilled people are subjected to.

 

[Moiza]

Now you're changing what you've written before. You stated

Driving recklessly is breaking the law. Everywhere. In every country.

Had you been in the right (and not broken the law), you wouldn't have bribed a policeman to let you off! Innocent people don't bribe traffic policemen to let them off. Unless of course you are saying that the policeman who stopped you was corrupt and he deliberately stopped you in order to extort money from you?

Put simply, you have admitted paying a bribe. Now that can only be for one of
two reasons:

1. The policeman was corrupt, and he stopped you for no reason, but simply to extort money from you.
or
2. The policeman stopped you because you broke the law. And in order to avoid punishment, you bribed the policeman to let you off.

Either way, there was bribery and corruption, and possible extortion. And you are complaining about some posters suggesting corruption is rife in Pakistan?

Although I was not one of the posters who claimed there was widespread corruption in Pakistan, however, going by the denial ... admission ... denial hip-hop you've shown in your posts, I'm coming around to their point of view!

I'm wrong, you are right, Pakistan definitely is one of the most corrupt places on earth : )

 

[Zohaib Shah]

This is what is causing me the most sleepless nights these days.

My friend went back home last year and he works for an engineering firm that is building a dam near Jehlum and believe it or not he has crazy shifts like 22 days without a day off and long hours with no overtime. The job description said 5 days a week 9-5 job but he hasn't once left work at or before 5.

In Pakistan they treat the salaried class like slaves, and this is a highly skilled professional, now imagine what the mazdoor and low-skilled people are subjected to.

Dang that sounds like a horrible experience bro. I hope your friend gets out of it as soon as possible. There are times when a job is ruining your health, this is one of those cases.

 

[Zohaib Shah]

That's the sort of thing that would annoy me, but then it's a privilege of living in countries with western standards where people can afford comfort and where regulations would be in place to ensure personal space and overcrowding wouldn't happen. Most developing countries are probably still decades away from catching up in that regard. I would just accept that rather than whine like an auntie as some do on here when they have to face up to the reality of where they came from.

I think people here are giving off there personal views of why they would never move to Pakistan. I don't think it means they hate Pakistan or anything. It has to do with them being realistic of there life style. In a thread like this, one should expect to see this. I prefer it over blind love for a country that does not feed you.

I actually dislike blind patriotism. I see no reason for it to exist, as this whole world is our playground. Lets not forget we were known as Indians way back. If we really go by our roots there is a lot of connection with a country we hate.

 

[DW44]

This is my situation in a nutshell: Made the move back to Pakistan in 2011 after getting my degree, mostly for emotional(read patriotic) reasons despite having the option to stay in the UK(Post Study Work visas were still a thing then). Lost my religious beliefs about a year after returning. Tried to power through the obstacles you face as a liberal, irreligious person but life became harder due to things that previously didn't bother me now being major inconveniences along with the fact that I get strongly affected by what goes on around me even if doesn't necessarily concern me. After about three and a half years, I decided that life in Pakistan as an irreligious person is a waste of a life so, with a heavy heart, decided to leave the country again. In a year or two, I hope to be gone. This will off course come with a significant hit to standard of living but that's a small price to pay for the freedom that a secular, liberal society offers.

 

[ExpressPacer]

My father was an orphan (from 17 years old) from kashmir who studied throughout his life on scholarships and loans. My dad has reached 60 and now we are considered middle class in islamabad. Yeah, I'd say we have had it better than most of Pakistan

And I'm pretty sure people in other countries too overtake a car without giving the indicator and in a little reckless manner.

Moiza, bro, I would suggest you to stop wasting your time and energy on this thread, like I have. It breaks my heart to see that some people are so adamant with their hate towards Pakistan. I wouldn't call it "hate", actually, because I know they don't necessarily hate Pakistan but it is their pessimistic attitude, negativity and refusal to see the truth despite being shown so many paths to it is that has made me realize that no matter how much we try and convince them, their opinion will not change.

Also, as a fellow Islamabadi, I think its safe to say we have our lives much easier than those of many in the West. Only if they just try and look at how perfect everything here is.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I think people here are giving off there personal views of why they would never move to Pakistan. I don't think it means they hate Pakistan or anything. It has to do with them being realistic of there life style. In a thread like this, one should expect to see this. I prefer it over blind love for a country that does not feed you.

I actually dislike blind patriotism. I see no reason for it to exist, as this whole world is our playground. Lets not forget we were known as Indians way back. If we really go by our roots there is a lot of connection with a country we hate.

What angers these people you label to be "blind patriots" is this title itself. You clearly refuse to understand what they are trying to say. You just read it and just leave it alone because you are assuming them to have this undying love for their country. The thing is, the reason why these "blind patriots" as taking it so negatively is because all these reasons expats are citing for not moving to Pakistan are false. I'm not calling them liars, I'm just calling them lazy people who form opinions through biased news and from the life that they had when they lived in Pakistan or from what they saw in Pakistan when they were forced to visit for a week and they went to their village somewhere in remote inner-Punjab.

 

[Zahid87]

What angers these people you label to be "blind patriots" is this title itself. You clearly refuse to understand what they are trying to say. You just read it and just leave it alone because you are assuming them to have this undying love for their country. The thing is, the reason why these "blind patriots" as taking it so negatively is because all these reasons expats are citing for not moving to Pakistan are false. I'm not calling them liars, I'm just calling them lazy people who form opinions through biased news and from the life that they had when they lived in Pakistan or from what they saw in Pakistan when they were forced to visit for a week and they went to their village somewhere in remote inner-Punjab.

So do you see absolutely zero drawbacks or negatives for someone considering moving to Pakistan from another country? No differences at all?

 

[sshakir411]

Would not move to Pakistan. Work life balance is important to me so is the quality of life. I'm far too used to life in the US and moving to any country would be a step back in every way. Plus I have an even playing field here, not sure if that would be the case in Pakistan.

 

[Syed1]

What angers these people you label to be "blind patriots" is this title itself. You clearly refuse to understand what they are trying to say. You just read it and just leave it alone because you are assuming them to have this undying love for their country. The thing is, the reason why these "blind patriots" as taking it so negatively is because all these reasons expats are citing for not moving to Pakistan are false. I'm not calling them liars, I'm just calling them lazy people who form opinions through biased news and from the life that they had when they lived in Pakistan or from what they saw in Pakistan when they were forced to visit for a week and they went to their village somewhere in remote inner-Punjab.

Instead of ridiculing the other party how about you try and understand their point of view.

Going back to Pakistan is massive step in ones life and is a major SACRIFICE. There are no two ways about it.

I'll give you my own example, I graduated around 2.5-3 years ago and have been working since then. I have worked for two employers and in both jobs I was hired completely on merit and nothing other than my skills or experience mattered to the people hiring me. They didn't care about the color of my skin, my race or my religion. In Pakistan if you want to get hired first of all you need a massive source then often times things like religion and sect come into play.

Now a guy who has been working for just 2.5 years can afford a good standard of living, can live in a nice place, can drive a nice car and can eat out several times a month and still have money leftover to put in a savings account. Is that possible for someone in Pakistan?

A guy working here falls sick, the government and his employer foot major part of the bill and ensure he gets the right medical care that he needs. Is that possible for someone in Pakistan?

I open the tap, I get fresh, clean water that I can directly drink from. Is that possible in Pakistan?

I turn on the lights and they come on, 10 times out of 10. Is that possible in Pakistan?

So before ridiculing "expat Pakistani" make sure you walk a mile in their shoes. Moving back to Pakistan is a massive hit on your standard of living and is not an easy task by ANY stretch of the imagination.

 

[ExpressPacer]

So do you see absolutely zero drawbacks or negatives for someone considering moving to Pakistan from another country? No differences at all?

Not at all. I'm not even saying that there would be no drawbacks. There'd be a lot of cons, probably much higher than those of living in the West and nor did I at one stage on this thread state that there wouldn't but what I have been trying to say repeatedly is that many of the things mentioned here by the people are not true. There may be other cons and drawbacks, but certainly not the ones people have mentioned on here making Pakistan look like a distant, desolated planet inhabited by monsters and beasts.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Instead of ridiculing the other party how about you try and understand their point of view.

Going back to Pakistan is massive step in ones life and is a major SACRIFICE. There are no two ways about it.

I'll give you my own example, I graduated around 2.5-3 years ago and have been working since then. I have worked for two employers and in both jobs I was hired completely on merit and nothing other than my skills or experience mattered to the people hiring me. They didn't care about the color of my skin, my race or my religion. In Pakistan if you want to get hired first of all you need a massive source then often times things like religion and sect come into play.

Now a guy who has been working for just 2.5 years can afford a good standard of living, can live in a nice place, can drive a nice car and can eat out several times a month and still have money leftover to put in a savings account. Is that possible for someone in Pakistan?

A guy working here falls sick, the government and his employer foot major part of the bill and ensure he gets the right medical care that he needs. Is that possible for someone in Pakistan?

I open the tap, I get fresh, clean water that I can directly drink from. Is that possible in Pakistan?

I turn on the lights and they come on, 10 times out of 10. Is that possible in Pakistan?

So before ridiculing "expat Pakistani" make sure you walk a mile in their shoes. Moving back to Pakistan is a massive hit on your standard of living and is not an easy task by ANY stretch of the imagination.

Well bro, I hope you find more success with you life as a citizen of where you are. What I am simply trying to say is that many of the drawbacks mentioned here are not true. There may be a lot of cons of living in Pakistan. Infinite. But certainly not the ones mentioned here. For example, you talk of job opportunities, I have seen many of my friends graduate from good Universities in Pakistan and get a job relatively easily. As for those of my friends and people I know who have graduated from a Uni in the West, very much like yourself - they get jobs even quicker.

But yes, I would agree over the religious intolerance and sectarianism that you mention. I've said it before on this thread and I'll say it again, that is the only thing that disgusts me and makes me feel ashamed of being a Pakistani, religious intolerance and sectarianism.

 

[yasir]

What angers these people you label to be "blind patriots" is this title itself. You clearly refuse to understand what they are trying to say. You just read it and just leave it alone because you are assuming them to have this undying love for their country. The thing is, the reason why these "blind patriots" as taking it so negatively is because all these reasons expats are citing for not moving to Pakistan are false. I'm not calling them liars, I'm just calling them lazy people who form opinions through biased news and from the life that they had when they lived in Pakistan or from what they saw in Pakistan when they were forced to visit for a week and they went to their village somewhere in remote inner-Punjab.

Instead of ridiculing the other party how about you try and understand their point of view.

Going back to Pakistan is massive step in ones life and is a major SACRIFICE. There are no two ways about it.

I'll give you my own example, I graduated around 2.5-3 years ago and have been working since then. I have worked for two employers and in both jobs I was hired completely on merit and nothing other than my skills or experience mattered to the people hiring me. They didn't care about the color of my skin, my race or my religion. In Pakistan if you want to get hired first of all you need a massive source then often times things like religion and sect come into play.

Now a guy who has been working for just 2.5 years can afford a good standard of living, can live in a nice place, can drive a nice car and can eat out several times a month and still have money leftover to put in a savings account. Is that possible for someone in Pakistan?

A guy working here falls sick, the government and his employer foot major part of the bill and ensure he gets the right medical care that he needs. Is that possible for someone in Pakistan?

I open the tap, I get fresh, clean water that I can directly drink from. Is that possible in Pakistan?

I turn on the lights and they come on, 10 times out of 10. Is that possible in Pakistan?

So before ridiculing "expat Pakistani" make sure you walk a mile in their shoes. Moving back to Pakistan is a massive hit on your standard of living and is not an easy task by ANY stretch of the imagination.

I would put it more simply, [MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] Can you moved from Islamabad to interior Punjab? - Why you cannot help out poor in those areas, after all 60% Pakistan still lives in those areas. Pakistan can be great again only if rular areas are vibrant and brought back to mainstream... Sitting in Islamabad, which is nothing like Pakistan, you are complaining to Overseas Pakistanis

 

[ExpressPacer]

I would put it more simply, [MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] Can you moved from Islamabad to interior Punjab? - Why you cannot help out poor in those areas, after all 60% Pakistan still lives in those areas. Pakistan can be great again only if rular areas are vibrant and brought back to mainstream... Sitting in Islamabad, which is nothing like Pakistan, you are complaining to Overseas Pakistanis

Bro, I would love to if I had the means but I hope you realize that is not the crux of this very thread. This thread is about whether an Overseas Pakistani would move to Pakistan or not. And I'm sure the majority of those who would move back, would not move to interior Punjab. Don't change this thread into what the problems of Pakistan are or anything like that.

As for you calling me out for "Sitting in Islamabad", please keep such statements to yourself because it only reflects your ignorance. I know what the conditions are there and what is going on but that is not the main aim of this thread. I would advise you to educated yourself on what this specific thread was for.

 

[yasir]

Bro, I would love to if I had the means but I hope you realize that is not the crux of this very thread. This thread is about whether an Overseas Pakistani would move to Pakistan or not. And I'm sure the majority of those who would move back, would not move to interior Punjab. Don't change this thread into what the problems of Pakistan are or anything like that.

As for you calling me out for "Sitting in Islamabad", please keep such statements to yourself because it only reflects your ignorance. I know what the conditions are there and what is going on but that is not the main aim of this thread. I would advise you to educated yourself on what this specific thread was for.

As I said before, moving to Pakistan for overseas Pakistani is same kind of move as moving from City to Village/small town...Even people who come from villages/small town, never go back, why?? - Very same reasons apply, largely to people moving out of country to another country, if things really turn around, people will move to villages/small towns or to Pakistan....

 

[ExpressPacer]

As I said before, moving to Pakistan for overseas Pakistani is same kind of move as moving from City to Village/small town...Even people who come from villages/small town, never go back, why?? - Very same reasons apply, largely to people moving out of country to another country, if things really turn around, people will move to villages/small towns or to Pakistan....

Okay, you live in some futuristic world which is far, far ahead of Pakistan. Mere years would be too small to measure how far ahead your adopted country in the West is. Pakistan is just a village compared to wherever you are. My apologies for having thought to question your futuristic country. After all, I am only writing from such a pathetic, third-word slum! Thank God for the internet otherwise I would have no idea as to what cities are like and how life is in the futuristic world of yours because we are deprived of all these benefits here. You win bro.