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"Too early to be talking about Virat Kohli being one of the greats" : Ricky Ponting

Abdullah719

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Abu Dhabi: Virat Kohli is the greatest batsmen in world cricket but not the “complete, all-round package” and therefore cannot be considered greater than his illustrious Indian compatriot Sachin Tendulkar.

That’s the view of the former Australia captain, Ricky Ponting, who is well placed to assess the pair given that he was one of the finest batsmen ever and played against both.

Ponting, who retired in 2012, is second in the list of all-time leading Test run-scorers with 13,378 runs behind Tendulkar’s 15,921 accumulated in 200 Tests.

The current India captain Kohli, 28, has amassed 4,209 runs from 53 Tests — but it his devastating prowess in all forms of the game that have led to some calling him superior to Tendulkar.

After 177 One-Day International matches, Tendulkar had scored 5,211 runs, while Kohli has 7,692.

“Is he the best batsman in the world? Yeah, he probably is,” Ponting told Gulf News in an exclusive interview in Abu Dhabi on Monday.

“I thought he was six or seven months ago and he’s probably taken it to another level since then.”

Ponting added that there “was always a question mark over his Test batting” but that Kohli’s “pretty special” form in India’s recent 4-0 evisceration of England, when he scored two tons and 655 runs in eight innings at an average of 109.16, had helped quash this theory.

“He’ll continue to improve, especially now that he’s the captain as well and his team’s winning,” the 42-year-old added at a press conference at the Park Hyatt hotel on Saadiyat Island ahead of the Gary Player Invitational golf event at Saadiyat Beach Golf Club.

“Is it too premature to call him the best ever? You can probably say that right now as far as his One-day cricket is concerned. His One-day record is outstanding and probably better than anybody that’s ever played the game given how many hundreds (27) he’s made, but let’s give him a few years yet in the Test series side of things.

“It’s too early yet to be taking about him being one of the greats. I think the great players we always talk about, the Tendulkars, the Laras, the Kallises, those guys played 120, 130-200 Test matches.

“Virat’s not even halfway along that path.”

Ponting, who retired after a stellar 17-year-career with Australia, was emphatic in his response when asked whether it was too early to call Kohli better than Tendulkar.

“Oh, absolutely. The great thing about Sachin was his longevity in the game. To think about someone playing 200 Test matches is quite remarkable and still maintain the standards over such a long period of time.

“I think that’s the difference between the really, really great players and the great players is the longevity and how long they can perform at a certain level for.”

Ponting agreed that Kohli needed to “dominate in England and South Africa” in order to cement his greatness.

His only previous Test appearances in England, for example, came in 2014, when he made 134 runs in five Tests at 13.40 in England’s 3-1 series win.

“He’s not the complete, all-round package yet,” Ponting said.

Ponting’s former Australia teammate, Mike Hussey, recently advised the Baggy Greens not to sledge the combustible Kohli when they travel to India for a four-Test series later this month.

Ponting is unsure whether he agrees with this, although he admits that “you leave some players, such as Brian Lara, alone” as any provocation can inspire rather than rile them.

But he added: “The one thing about Virat Kohli is whenever there’s any confrontation, he does get a little bit outside of his comfort zone. You can see that he gets ultra-aggressive, which may be a good thing for him or maybe good for the opposition.

“We will wait and see what happens. I think he’s a similar sort of character to me as well. He wears his heart on his sleeve. He’s pretty animated. He’s a very aggressive player.”

If he were still Australia captain — he performed this role between 2004 and 2011 — how would he attempt to neutralise Kohli’s impact?

“The Aussies will know any chink in the armour that he might have and they’ll try and expose it.

“One thing I learnt about playing in India is the momentum that the home team can create, you have to try and stop that.

“Someone like Virat, you have to take his boundary-scoring areas away and make him score his runs in different areas or make him bat for a longer time to make his runs.”

http://gulfnews.com/sport/cricket/i...li-not-better-than-sachin-tendulkar-1.1974294
 
“I think that’s the difference between the really, really great players and the great players is the longevity and how long they can perform at a certain level for.” --- Ponting

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Interesting views from Ponting here. While I agree that it's incredible hard to maintain high standards for longer period, everyone is not blessed with talent to debut early enough to play 130-150 tests. But if you do that with high standards then it does put you at a level higher.
 
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Kohli will surpass Ponting and the latter knows it. I back him to become the greatest batsman of all time, ahead of Tendulkar.
 
“I think that’s the difference between the really, really great players and the great players is the longevity and how long they can perform at a certain level for.” --- Ponting

------------

Interesting views from Ponting here. While I agree that it's incredible hard to maintain high standards for longer period, everyone is not blessed with talent to debut early enough to play 130-150 tests. But if you do that with high standards then it does put you at a level higher.

Longevity is underrated on PP because most Indians have passed this test while most Pakistanis have failed it, especially the spinners, but I personally think longevity plays a significant role. It is what separates legends from great players.

It is the biggest reason why I believe that Tendulkar has the strongest claim at the GOAT batsman title. He ticks more boxes than the dinosaur Bradman - he maintained world class standards for about 20 years, performed against bowlers of three different generations in different conditions, formats and match situations.

Other batsmen have bettered him in different aspects, but no other batsman in history ticks as many boxes than Tendulkar.
 
He isn't one of the greats now,but by the time his careers end,he will surpass each and every great.
 
“I think that’s the difference between the really, really great players and the great players is the longevity and how long they can perform at a certain level for.” --- Ponting

------------

Interesting views from Ponting here. While I agree that it's incredible hard to maintain high standards for longer period, everyone is not blessed with talent to debut early enough to play 130-150 tests. But if you do that with high standards then it does put you at a level higher.

If only some people will realise the meaning of that and the meaning of "All Round Player"
 
Kohli is already a great in LOIs.

Any doubts being raised are due to lack of his world cup performances. He just needs to have one good world cup where he helps his team in pressure situations and he is set to be called the GOAT.

In any case, Asian batsmen have to pass more tests to be called the best in the business so yeah.
 
Is it too premature to call him the best ever? You can probably say that right now as far as his One-day cricket is concerned. His One-day record is outstanding and probably better than anybody that’s ever played the game given how many hundreds (27) he’s made, but let’s give him a few years yet in the Test series side of things.

“It’s too early yet to be taking about him being one of the greats. I think the great players we always talk about, the Tendulkars, the Laras, the Kallises, those guys played 120, 130-200 Test matches.

“Virat’s not even halfway along that path.”

Don't think one can disagree what he said.
 
Very fair comments by Punter. He's a very good test batsman but calling him great is stretching the truth. In ODIs , he's one if the best ever no doubt.
 
Ponting is right.

Kohli's test career is still a long way to go.I

In odis, he is one of the all-time greats.
 
Kohli is nowhere near great in the test format. He has a long way to go.
 
It is quite normal for players to be called great based on their potential before they actually get there. It happens in every sport, because it is very obvious for certain players barring some bizarre unexpected even such as injury, inexplicable loss of form etc.

As things stand, Kohli isn't a great in Tests yet but it is extremely obvious that he will get there based on his talent, skill-set, work ethic and the hunger to succeed.

Most of the legends in different sports were earmarked for greatness before they actually got there. Now if Kohli wakes up one day and loses the motivation to perform or gets a career ending injury, it doesn't mean that people who earmarked him for greatness were wrong; its just that they didn't see it (the unforeseen circumstances) coming, but the chances of that happening are very low.
 
In my opinion it's way too early to decide on a player's ATG status till he completes at least 10 years of International cricket.
 
These ex players have the tendency to big up players from their generation, so no biggie. Kohli is already a better player than Tendulkar and Ponting in ODIs, and only behind Ponting in Tests.
 
Kohli is easily the most overrated player playing this sport today. Done nothing of note in test cricket, has quite a few holes in the ODI game too and T20 is not prestigious enough to be calling him the best batsman in the world even if he has been unbelievably good in the shortest format.

He's a very good batsman, with the potential to be an ATG, but there are still ways to go until that happens. As for being the best batsman in the world? No, that is Steven Smith.
 
Kohli is easily the most overrated player playing this sport today. Done nothing of note in test cricket, has quite a few holes in the ODI game too and T20 is not prestigious enough to be calling him the best batsman in the world even if he has been unbelievably good in the shortest format.

He's a very good batsman, with the potential to be an ATG, but there are still ways to go until that happens. As for being the best batsman in the world? No, that is Steven Smith.

Nothing of note? If having around centuries in Australia, SA, NZ and WI doesn't count, then players like Younis and Misbah have done nothing of note in tests either.

It would be great if you can get past the hand waving and actually talk about some specifics, like which holes he has in his ODI game.
 
Nothing of note? If having around centuries in Australia, SA, NZ and WI doesn't count, then players like Younis and Misbah have done nothing of note in tests either.

It would be great if you can get past the hand waving and actually talk about some specifics, like which holes he has in his ODI game.

Did you just compare Kohli to Younis? Are you serious? Younis Khan is an ATG test veteran, who has 30+ centuries, nearly 10,000 runs after 100+ matches. Let Kohli play more than three matches in those countries and then start comparing him to batsmen who are way out of his league in the longest format. Misbah is a decent player nothing more, why bring him up?

Well, I don't know, maybe his record in Australia, England and South Africa, against the home attacks for starters? He doesn't have a single century in a win in these countries and averages a measly 20 in matches that India has actually won. Then you have his performances in the first innings of a match which makes one wonder if he lacks the ability to judge the pitch and if he needs to know exactly what to do in order to perform. Then his World Cup record, despite having one of them take place in his own backyard.
 
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Nothing of note? If having around centuries in Australia, SA, NZ and WI doesn't count, then players like Younis and Misbah have done nothing of note in tests either.
what? Younis has scored a century in all 11 nations that hosted test cricket, he's the only one to do it, Misbah got the Most Test wins as an Asian Captain outside of Asia
 
Nothing of note? If having around centuries in Australia, SA, NZ and WI doesn't count, then players like Younis and Misbah have done nothing of note in tests either.
Younis's average is almost the same as Tendulkar's, and he's scored the same number of 100s as Lara, Jayawardene and Gavaskar.
 
Kohli is easily the most overrated player playing this sport today. Done nothing of note in test cricket, has quite a few holes in the ODI game too and T20 is not prestigious enough to be calling him the best batsman in the world even if he has been unbelievably good in the shortest format.

He's a very good batsman, with the potential to be an ATG, but there are still ways to go until that happens. As for being the best batsman in the world? No, that is Steven Smith.

I'd love to hear the logic behind Steven Smith being the best batsman.

Average ODI record outside Australia. Rubbish T20 record.

Best test batsman? Sure.

Best batsman? Not a chance.
 
No way in hell kohli is an atg. Guys like Tendulkar got their centuries back when there was a balance between batsman and bowler. Back then, 230 was a good score. Now 340 is a good score. How are people already claiming kohli is greatest odi player. People must have short memory or this forum is filled with teenagers
 
No way in hell kohli is an atg. Guys like Tendulkar got their centuries back when there was a balance between batsman and bowler. Back then, 230 was a good score. Now 340 is a good score. How are people already claiming kohli is greatest odi player. People must have short memory or this forum is filled with teenagers

The guy is the greatest ODI chaser of all time.

He's not putting up empty stats.
 
You can recognise greatness at a very early stage. Virat has it in him for sure, no doubt about it. Could be that Ricky is jealous for some reason.
 
Nothing of note? If having around centuries in Australia, SA, NZ and WI doesn't count, then players like Younis and Misbah have done nothing of note in tests either.

It would be great if you can get past the hand waving and actually talk about some specifics, like which holes he has in his ODI game.

I understand you guys really like Kohli. He's a great players, but come on...

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=3;opposition=3;template=results;type=batting

He has a 37.33 average against SA in SA. I wouldn't call that nothing, but it isn't exactly great either.
 
I understand you guys really like Kohli. He's a great players, but come on...

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=3;opposition=3;template=results;type=batting

He has a 37.33 average against SA in SA. I wouldn't call that nothing, but it isn't exactly great either.

What is so special about ODI in SA that tests dont have?.He had an avg of 48.25 before last series in SA. Its not that he can't bat in those conditions. There's something called 'out of form'
 
Good on Punter to say things bluntly.

Virat is at least 3-4 good seasons from becoming a great. He's had two great seasons as a Test batsman is only an upward curve right now. At 28, he's got very similar Test stats to Ponting at 28 (Jan ( Virat - 4200 runs@50, 15 100s in 53 tests, Punter 4200+ runs@49, 62 tests, 14 100s)
 
AB has a beastly average of 33 in England and it even enters bradmanesque territory of 28 when playing against them . Does that mean he can't bat in England when he is having a decent record in tests.

I wasn't comparing them.

The poster asked for specific holes in his ODI game. Those a gaping holes to me.
 
Pujara, Rahane and the opener guy, all three of them are better than Virat (test cricket)

But it is premature to judge him as an ATG or not an ATG. Kohli has still a long career ahead.
 
Pujara, Rahane and the opener guy, all three of them are better than Virat (test cricket)

But it is premature to judge him as an ATG or not an ATG. Kohli has still a long career ahead.

Neither of them are. They are very good but lack the ability to dominate the opposition. KL Rahul is potentially India's second best batsman of this generation ahead of the other three.
 
“I think that’s the difference between the really, really great players and the great players is the longevity and how long they can perform at a certain level for.” --- Ponting

------------

Interesting views from Ponting here. While I agree that it's incredible hard to maintain high standards for longer period, everyone is not blessed with talent to debut early enough to play 130-150 tests. But if you do that with high standards then it does put you at a level higher.

To be frank ... Ponting is being a bit "Captain Obvious" here ... Nobody who seriously understands the game needs to be told this. This is like saying the Sun is Bright. Though only on PP can there be discussions going on for pages to "prove" that longevity means nothing in cricket.
 
Younis's average is almost the same as Tendulkar's, and he's scored the same number of 100s as Lara, Jayawardene and Gavaskar.

Heard about having an "All Round Game"everyone has seen how YK jumps around the pitch againist fast bowlers when there is even a little bit in the pitch.

And who told you Jayawardene is equal to Lara or Gavaskar?
 
Heard about having an "All Round Game"everyone has seen how YK jumps around the pitch againist fast bowlers when there is even a little bit in the pitch.

And who told you Jayawardene is equal to Lara or Gavaskar?

oh please! Younis's jumping only lasted for a few months and he don't do it anymore, he's widely regarded as a modern great batsman, and one of the best players of spin in the history of the game
did you forget what happened to Tendulkar towards the end of his career? almost all big players have bad patches towards the end of their careers

I didn't say Jayawardene is equal to Lara or Gavaskar, I said Younis have the same numbers of test 100s as those 3, and those 3 are greatest batsmen the world has ever seen, and also Younis took the least number of matches to get it
 
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He may not be an All time great yet but I think its fair to say that he is better than Root and Williamson across all formats and only behind Smith in tests although well ahead of him in limited formats.
 
Did you just compare Kohli to Younis? Are you serious? Younis Khan is an ATG test veteran, who has 30+ centuries, nearly 10,000 runs after 100+ matches. Let Kohli play more than three matches in those countries and then start comparing him to batsmen who are way out of his league in the longest format. Misbah is a decent player nothing more, why bring him up?

Well, I don't know, maybe his record in Australia, England and South Africa, against the home attacks for starters? He doesn't have a single century in a win in these countries and averages a measly 20 in matches that India has actually won. Then you have his performances in the first innings of a match which makes one wonder if he lacks the ability to judge the pitch and if he needs to know exactly what to do in order to perform. Then his World Cup record, despite having one of them take place in his own backyard.

lol only a pakistani can call steve smith a best batsmen and younis khan as an ATG. what a joke. Kohli is already million times ahead of any younis khan or steve smith. Younis khan was just a FTB and nothing more. When people talk about great batsmen no one even thinks abt any pakistani batsmen. It is a harsh reality which obviously you would not like to accept. There are better batsmen than younis khan and yousuf youhana in India's domestic ranji trophy.
 
I understand you guys really like Kohli. He's a great players, but come on...

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=3;opposition=3;template=results;type=batting

He has a 37.33 average against SA in SA. I wouldn't call that nothing, but it isn't exactly great either.

How many matches has kohli played in SA? I'm sure he will have much better average in SA and ENG than an SA or ENG batsmen in India.
for your info, ponting averages just 20 in India and played many matches in India. Kohli on the other hand is still in early stages of his test career and already has 16 centuries.
 
He just might end up finishing as the greatest batsmen of all time, if he can keep this up for another 10 years.
 
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Longevity is underrated on PP because most Indians have passed this test while most Pakistanis have failed it, especially the spinners, but I personally think longevity plays a significant role. It is what separates legends from great players.

It is the biggest reason why I believe that Tendulkar has the strongest claim at the GOAT batsman title. He ticks more boxes than the dinosaur Bradman - he maintained world class standards for about 20 years, performed against bowlers of three different generations in different conditions, formats and match situations.

Other batsmen have bettered him in different aspects, but no other batsman in history ticks as many boxes than Tendulkar.

Bradman maintained his high standards over 20 years as well.
 
Bradman maintained his high standards over 20 years as well.

Absolutely no comparison between playing 52 Tests and 200 Tests + 463 ODIs in more varied conditions against many different opponents.
 
lol only a pakistani can call steve smith a best batsmen and younis khan as an ATG. what a joke. Kohli is already million times ahead of any younis khan or steve smith. Younis khan was just a FTB and nothing more. When people talk about great batsmen no one even thinks abt any pakistani batsmen. It is a harsh reality which obviously you would not like to accept. There are better batsmen than younis khan and yousuf youhana in India's domestic ranji trophy.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Younis Khan has some seriously good numbers and has historically turned up for Pakistan in the longer format.

That he is terrible in coloured clothing and is a sook shouldn't cloud this issue.
 
oh please! Younis's jumping only lasted for a few months and he don't do it anymore, he's widely regarded as a modern great batsman, and one of the best players of spin in the history of the game
did you forget what happened to Tendulkar towards the end of his career? almost all big players have bad patches towards the end of their careers

I didn't say Jayawardene is equal to Lara or Gavaskar, I said Younis have the same numbers of test 100s as those 3, and those 3 are greatest batsmen the world has ever seen, and also Younis took the least number of matches to get it

YK was never good againist fast bowling.Never.He isnt widely regarded as a ATG.Neither he is one of the best players of spin in history as his record againist the greatest spinner of all time is poor.

I will let [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] handle this lest you accuse me of bias.
 
Bradman maintained his high standards over 20 years as well.

1. There was a cricket hiatus of 6 years (World War 2).
2. Bradman played only in 2 countries in his entire career.
3. 70% of the games against a single opposition.

Again, no one can deny that he was heads and shoulders above his contemporaries and that's where his true greatness lies. The players in those times were nowhere close to match his credentials.
 
YK was never good againist fast bowling.Never.He isnt widely regarded as a ATG.Neither he is one of the best players of spin in history as his record againist the greatest spinner of all time is poor.

I will let [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] handle this lest you accuse me of bias.

The 'ATG' has never played a single quality innings against lateral movement at any stage in his career. People point out to Old Trafford in 2006 but that pitch had extra bounce, not lateral movement.

The he failed in NZ few months ago summed up his technique against the moving ball, and he is a seasoned veteran who has played enough cricket overseas. Kohli's poor outing in England was more due to his inexperience against swing bowling rather than lack of ability.
 
Younis isn't a atg. Tbh it's only a couple of posters who consider him atg. Most on this forum know he is a Pakistani great and that's it. Not even close to atg level.
 
Bradman maintained his high standards over 20 years as well.
Bradman didn't play in the professional era... Still think McGrath, Warne, Steyn etc. have a better claim to being the greatest cricket of all time.
 
There's no stopping this guy anymore. He's figured it all out. I just can't see him failing in England again. Unlike the last tour, he's technically equipped to deal with lateral movement.
 
Good player. Should have scored a 300. He fully deserved it for the way he played.
 
Kohli is a strong contender for GOAT ODI batsman, but he's not even a great in test atm. He needs to improve his average outside India and Australia.

And Ponting is > Kohli, so his opinion is very much noteworthy. Kohli needs to play at least 100 test to be even considered as a great, and at least 130 test to be considered ATG.
 
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