Too many all rounders and not enough specialists - Are Pakistan getting the balance right?

[Markhor]

I understand we are in a different era of cricket where all rounders are prized possessions in the white ball formats. However I feel playing SIX all rounders in Mohammad Hafeez, Hussain Talat, Shoaib Malik, Shadab Khan, Faheem Ashraf and Mohammad Nawaz is overkill.

Then you have Sarfraz Ahmed who takes the gloves, and two bowlers in Hasan Ali and Usman Shinwari, leaving TWO specialist batsmen in Fakhar Zaman and Asif Ali. Given we are a weak batting nation historically, how does this make sense ?

The most replaceable players out of all the ones mentioned are Hafeez (who shouldn't even be on this trip); the out of form Talat; and Nawaz who whilst an AR in theory is a pathetic batsman whose bowling is easily replaceable.

The selectors shockingly have not named a specialist spinner so Nawaz will most likely hang around but Hafeez and Talat ought to go for Sahibzada and Haris in the next match. Talat is a promising player but no way is he the finished article yet as evident by his struggles in the Pakistan Cup, in Scotland and now in this tri-series.

 

[cricketerB94]

Hafeez needs to go if he can't bowl even against aussies who have 2 left handers in top 3 and Talat needs some more time in domestics and in A tours maybe.

Remember that the inclusion of Fakhar, Shadab and Faheem has been successful in international cricket because they had successful away A tours and then PSL performances made them more visible. Where as Hussain is just a product of PSL and I don't remember any recent performance by him in any A tour. He is also horribly out of form as shown by his recent outings domestically and internationally.

Mickey needs to sort the top 3 out as it is not good enough to consistently beat top teams. I would prefer the top 3 of Fakhar, Babar and Agha in T20s. Babar and Agha should have a role that one of them holds one end through the end of innings and they can strike around 110 to 120 strike rate in first 15 overs and then they should increase their strike rate. All the other batsmen around them can play with freedom.

Sarfraz also needs to perform against good teams in big grounds and in hot weather as it seems like he has fitness issues and he loses his calm in these conditions and plays lazy shots more often.

Nawaz is good against minnows but we need to have a better option against top teams, maybe Shaheen if not Amir.

Hassan also needs to work on his batting. He has the potential of being a very good lower order slogger.

At the end, my team for T20s would be: Fakhar, Babar, Agha (off-spin option too), Sarfraz, Malik, Asif, Shadab, Faheem, Hasan, Amir/Shaheen, Usman.

 

[Ahsanax]

Even I felt we were a batsmen short in the last few matches and that got exposed today. If hafeez is playing he should bowl his full quota and then Nawaz can be rested and Sahibzada should be given a chance.

 

[ManFan]

Nawaz is not good enough to be a bowler and is a below-par batsman. He's had one good innings in NZ since his comeback.

Hafeez, the less said the better.

Talat lacks the power required for a #3 to accelerate.

Everything else is fine.

Just a bad day at the office.

 

[TeymurBlake]

I think there are certain obvious changes that can be made, with that being said maybe a rejigging the lineup could be good. Maybe move Hussain Talat for No.5 and move the other two in Sarfaraz and Malik up one. Besides this I would obviously get rid of Hafeez for Sahibzada Farhan and probably bring in another bowler for maybe Malik

 

[ads101]

We do the same thing in ODIs too. Eternally obsessed with having as many bowling options as possible even if our batting suffers. When the game is mostly about batting.

In T20s we'll get away with it, but in the longer formats it's difficult.

In T20s however in a full strength team, Amir will come in for Nawaz, and Babar for Hafeez. So we should be alright. Faheem needs to be more consistent with the bat too, but he'll get there hopefully. Should be batting above Shadab in T20s.

Not convinced Talat's a top order bat, which is an issue given we already have many middle order bats. So you might need to get someone else who can better handle pace in at three.

 

[Hasan123]

There's no need for both Hafeez and Malik. 1 of them should be selected. Nawaz should play based on conditions.

 

[Mainul]

Hafeez is as usual rubbish.Newaz is an ordinary all rounder. So these are just occupying 2 valuable spots.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Nawaz and Hafeez have always been trash. So, this is to be expected. We're basically playing with a 9 man team. One is in the team because of our kaptaan, the other is holding the PCB hostage.

 

[Mamoon]

The biggest worry is how poor the batting line-up is - comfortably one of the worst in the world.

Fakhar: a hack who can do damage against any opposition, but all eight planets have to align for him to score runs. He swings blindly and unless luck favors him, he cannot score.

Hafeez/Shehzad: Not good enough for T20s.

Babar: very prolific player, but not dynamic enough to be a leading batsman in T20s.

Talat: nothing special.

Malik: minnow-basher

Sarfraz: rubbish

Haris is not T20 material either, and there is a 99.9% chance that Farhan will not be good enough either. This is an awful batting unit that will post a below par total against a strong team 9/10 times, unless Fakhar has a fluke day.

 

[Khan12]

Nawaz and Hafeez have always been trash. So, this is to be expected. We're basically playing with a 9 man team. One is in the team because of our kaptaan, the other is holding the PCB hostage.

So basically playing with 8 then What do you make of talat so far? Do you think he can be a mainstay in our Limited overs games.

 

[Ahson8]

Nawaz and Hafeez have always been trash. So, this is to be expected. We're basically playing with a 9 man team. One is in the team because of our kaptaan, the other is holding the PCB hostage.

Nawaz isn’t bad for a second spinner, well atleast he’s better than Imad or Asghar anyway

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Nawaz isn’t bad for a second spinner, well atleast he’s better than Imad or Asghar anyway

Against Zimbabwe, yeah.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

So basically playing with 8 then What do you make of talat so far? Do you think he can be a mainstay in our Limited overs games.

Yes. Playing in the wrong position but it's alright if they've identified him as long term.

 

[Khan12]

Yes. Playing in the wrong position but it's alright if they've identified him as long term.

Good to hear. I hope so they have identified him as long term Mickey seems to like him as well.

 

[Zaz]

Agreed Just too many bits and pieces cricketers Allrounders arent gonna get you the 50s that you need to post big totals

Pakistan need a extra batsman in this lineup

 

[Syed1]

Harsh to clump Talat alongside the alrounders just because he can roll his arm over. He is a proper bat who is struggling with form perhaps due to being put in a batting position he is not used to. Shoaib Malik might have been an alrounder early on his career, but these days he plays as a proper bat and I cannot even remember when was the lat time he actually bowled.

 

[Justcrazy]

Hafeez has to go , Pakistan need couple of good middle order batters in the line up.

4 specialist bowlers plus two all rounders are enough.

 

[Pete Rose]

Malik and Hafeez are the issue.

 

[ShahidDar08]

The biggest worry is how poor the batting line-up is - comfortably one of the worst in the world.

Fakhar: a hack who can do damage against any opposition, but all eight planets have to align for him to score runs. He swings blindly and unless luck favors him, he cannot score.

Hafeez/Shehzad: Not good enough for T20s.

Babar: very prolific player, but not dynamic enough to be a leading batsman in T20s.

Talat: nothing special.

Malik: minnow-basher

Sarfraz: rubbish

Haris is not T20 material either, and there is a 99.9% chance that Farhan will not be good enough either. This is an awful batting unit that will post a below par total against a strong team 9/10 times, unless Fakhar has a fluke day.

then you only suggest some good batsmen if all these are hacks etc.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Even the all rounders like Nawaz aren’t actual all rounders. The guy is pretty awful in both disciplines especially batting. I called it even after everyone was talking about him during psl 1

 

[ShahidDar08]

Farhan should come in place of Hafeez to partner with Fakhar.

Sarfaraz should come at #3 followed by Mallik at #4, Talat at #5, Asif Ali at #6, Fahim at #7 and Shadab at #8.

 

[MMHS]

T20 is a bowling game - this is the main reason we are so poor in T20 & Afghans are better.

First strategy should be 5X4 bowlers on bowling merit. One Shadab or Shakib can stay in the XI as all-rounder mainly because batting is a sort of bonus from them - in bowling merit they make the XI. Rest 4, can be McGrath standard with bat (& preferably with ball as well).

Next comes batting. T20 is too short even for 6 batsmen. If couple can bat, often team ends up losing 3/4 wickets. Therefore, in T20 it’s extremely important to have a very good SR and more importantly instant hitting power. T20 is only format where couple of batsmen even can win a WC.

I think, for T20, I'll like to have 6 hacks coming in top 6 and go after the bowling from ball 1. Some days, team might get bundled out for 110; but playing safe doesn’t help much either. Even in ODI a team can recover from bad start, but in T20, game is too short - if you have a bad start, no point trying to play safe & reach a respectable total or while chasing try to consolidate; asking starts at 8/9, few overs of consolidation- it’ll reach 12+; then no matter how many wickets at hand, very little chance to chase 125 in 10 overs.

And, there is absolutely no place for selfish batsmen in T20 - one bad apple at the top will kill 2/3 coming next.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Nawaz and Shoaib(post 2015) are barely all rounders.Nawaz should only bowl on Asian/WI wickets.

Hafeez needs to be kicked out.

That leaves Shadab(a classy batsman),Faheem(big hitting bowling allrounder) and Talat(who is only a part time bowler).

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Don't know why people here are rating talat so much. He is a rubbish and can't deserve no 3 in t20s even he has no place in t20s

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan need to have four specialist bowlers at least for 20 20. Bowlers on bowling merit.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

We do the same thing in ODIs too. Eternally obsessed with having as many bowling options as possible even if our batting suffers. When the game is mostly about batting.

In T20s we'll get away with it, but in the longer formats it's difficult.

In T20s however in a full strength team, Amir will come in for Nawaz, and Babar for Hafeez. So we should be alright. Faheem needs to be more consistent with the bat too, but he'll get there hopefully. Should be batting above Shadab in T20s.

Not convinced Talat's a top order bat, which is an issue given we already have many middle order bats. So you might need to get someone else who can better handle pace in at three.

This team has 11 people who have some ability with the bat.

It's a good thing. Being incapable of batting does not make anyone a better bowler, and the converse also.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

The biggest worry is how poor the batting line-up is - comfortably one of the worst in the world.

Fakhar: a hack who can do damage against any opposition, but all eight planets have to align for him to score runs. He swings blindly and unless luck favors him, he cannot score.

Hafeez/Shehzad: Not good enough for T20s.

Babar: very prolific player, but not dynamic enough to be a leading batsman in T20s.

Talat: nothing special.

Malik: minnow-basher

Sarfraz: rubbish

Haris is not T20 material either, and there is a 99.9% chance that Farhan will not be good enough either. This is an awful batting unit that will post a below par total against a strong team 9/10 times, unless Fakhar has a fluke day.

It's one of the best.

The freedom to hit because 7, 8, 9 and even 10 and 11 can hit well or survive is the most under-rated thing in the world.

This is actually the #1 team, but this forum has no sense of proportion and expects the team to win 100% of games convincingly or they go ballistic.

 

[Usman Chadda]

It's one of the best.

The freedom to hit because 7, 8, 9 and even 10 and 11 can hit well or survive is the most under-rated thing in the world.

This is actually the #1 team, but this forum has no sense of proportion and expects the team to win 100% of games convincingly or they go ballistic.

Couldn't agree more. We swing from one extreme to the other. Indian fans might put a lot of pressure on their cricketers, but the way our fans literally rip into them even now, shows the immaturity. Either our cricket is the best in the world or its finished and we deserve the humiliation. Such fans are an embarrassment to our cricket

 

[Dagestani_Eagle]

Fakhar
Talat
Babar (farhaan for this series)
Shadab
Asif
Faheem


This should be core of pakistani batting

 

[Mamoon]

Couldn't agree more. We swing from one extreme to the other. Indian fans might put a lot of pressure on their cricketers, but the way our fans literally rip into them even now, shows the immaturity. Either our cricket is the best in the world or its finished and we deserve the humiliation. Such fans are an embarrassment to our cricket

I agree. That day I saw a poster claim that this current Pakistan team will start as heavy favorites against any opposition other than England.

Now that is what I call embarrassing. I think you might be familiar with that poster.

 

[Mamoon]

It's one of the best.

The freedom to hit because 7, 8, 9 and even 10 and 11 can hit well or survive is the most under-rated thing in the world.

This is actually the #1 team, but this forum has no sense of proportion and expects the team to win 100% of games convincingly or they go ballistic.

It is clearly not one of the best when you dissect the lineup individually. Pakistan might be the ‘actual’ number one team, but we all know that it is an artificial ranking built on playing far too many games in quick succession against weak opposition.

You give the fixtures that Pakistan have enjoyed since the last WT20 to India, Australia, England or South Africa, and they will find themselves at number one as well.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Yeah you need to invest in specialist batsmen and bowlers always. You don't need more than 1 quality allrounder in any team in any format imo. But i'm surprised at this thread. A couple of years of back on PP, i remember folks complaining that there were hardly any allrounders coming through. Isn't this what everyone wanted.

 

[ads101]

Yeah you need to invest in specialist batsmen and bowlers always. You don't need more than 1 quality allrounder in any team in any format imo. But i'm surprised at this thread. A couple of years of back on PP, i remember folks complaining that there were hardly any allrounders coming through. Isn't this what everyone wanted.

You don't even need an allrounder if you can make up the last 10 overs with part timers.

Allrounder is a luxury not a requirement. Great to have one, not disastrous if you don't have one.

I dislike allrounders who don't tend to make it solely on one facet however bat or ball. The best batting allrounders don't weaken batting strength by being in it and the best bowling allrounders rival the fulltime bowlers, they aren't distinctly worse and generally should be capable of completing a full quota of 10 overs consistently themselves.

When you start fitting in lots of allrounders in a team thinking you're covering holes, you tend to reduce batting strength. There's also no guarantee you're improving bowling either if due to the multitude of your bowling options, some don't get a bowl, or your best bowlers as a result dont bowl full quota.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

You don't even need an allrounder if you can make up the last 10 overs with part timers.

Allrounder is a luxury not a requirement. Great to have one, not disastrous if you don't have one.

I dislike allrounders who don't tend to make it solely on one facet however bat or ball. The best batting allrounders don't weaken batting strength by being in it and the best bowling allrounders rival the fulltime bowlers, they aren't distinctly worse and generally should be capable of completing a full quota of 10 overs consistently themselves.

When you start fitting in lots of allrounders in a team thinking you're covering holes, you tend to reduce batting strength. There's also no guarantee you're improving bowling either if due to the multitude of your bowling options, some don't get a bowl, or your best bowlers as a result dont bowl full quota.

Agreed. Genuine allrounders are rare and a luxury and the rest are usually bits and pieces players who are usually much worse than specialist bats and bowlers. However, i don't necessarily agree with the part timers bit. In today's LOI cricket of flat pitches and monster bats, 10 overs of part timers can be taken for even 120 runs by a strong batting lineup. Better to invest in a specialist fifth bowler if there is no genuine allrounder imo.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I agree. That day I saw a poster claim that this current Pakistan team will start as heavy favorites against any opposition other than England.

Now that is what I call embarrassing. I think you might be familiar with that poster.

Its not. It's a fair opinion and not swinging on a pendulum like some of you lot. Also, starting as favourtes doesn't mean you won't lose games here and there. India knows that feeling pretty well

 

[moinsahil]

in T20I its better but in odi and test pakistan team have to stick on specialist
also talat, nawaz, and hafeez can not perform away from UAE so .

 

[The_Odd_One]

You do not need 6 specialist batsmen in T20s. The game is all about posting a decent score and then choking your opposition with bowling.