Top overseas Test batsmen

[Joseph Gomes]

For batsmane who played more than 100 tests, Tendulkar has the best average in alien conditions (53.2 in Aus, 54.31 in Eng, 49.52 in NZ and 46.44 in SAF). That's right, the little master averages more than 45 each and every one of these countries.

Ironically, Tendulkar's lowest average is 40 in Zimbabwe, which was one of the weakest sides (still a pretty decent team in the 90s). Still 40 is a healthy average and nowhere near bad. Tendulkar doesn't average below 40 in any test nation.

I am not counting batsman who have less than 100 tests since sample size is too small, and average is often inflated for that reason.

So who is the second best overseas after the master blaster?

 

[vandokkum]

Both Allan Border (56) and Steve Waugh (55) have a better away average than Tendulkar (54).

 

[marlonbrowndo]

100 tests is too large a cutoff. Should be 50

 

[Bilal7]

Amla's averages against the top sides in their home (or neutral) conditions:

Australia: 45+
England: 70+
India: 60+
New Zealand: 45+
Pakistan (UAE): 70+
Sri Lanka: 38+

Along with averaging 50 in South Africa, which is easily the toughest place to bat, especially for a top order batsman.

If anyone has better numbers, than the aforementioned Little Master, I have yet to know about them.

 

[Bilal7]

Younis Khan's averages are pretty good too:

Australia: 50+
England: 50+
New Zealand: 40+
India: 50+
Sri Lanka: 40+
South Africa: mid-30s, which tells you more about South African pitches than Younis Khan.

 

[Chrish]

Am I right in saying that Sachin is the only player to average 40 in each country playing 100 or more tests??

Only can think of AB de Villiers as other player if you exclude 1 test in Zimbabwe..

If we go back, Rohan Kanhai averaged 40 minimum in each country but didn't quite play 100 tests.

 

[Ab Fan]

Am I right in saying that Sachin is the only player to average 40 in each country playing 100 or more tests??

Only can think of AB de Villiers as other player if you exclude 1 test in Zimbabwe..

If we go back, Rohan Kanhai averaged 40 minimum in each country but didn't quite play 100 tests.

Doesn't Chappell also avg 40+ everywhere?

 

[Abdullah719]

Doesn't Chappell also avg 40+ everywhere?

87 Tests, but yes.

 

[Chrish]

Doesn't Chappell also avg 40+ everywhere?

He doesn't qualify in my book because of tendency to avoid certain tours on purpose.

 

[Abdullah719]

Am I right in saying that Sachin is the only player to average 40 in each country playing 100 or more tests??

Only can think of AB de Villiers as other player if you exclude 1 test in Zimbabwe..

If we go back, Rohan Kanhai averaged 40 minimum in each country but didn't quite play 100 tests.

Border is 45+ everywhere except for in South Africa where he played only 3 Tests (which were all in the last year of his career).

 

[Chrish]

Border is 45+ everywhere except for in South Africa where he played only 3 Tests (which were all in the last year of his career).

If we start excluding one country then lot of people would chime in..

Gavaskar averaged 40 everywhere except Lanka for ex.

 

[Abdullah719]

If we start excluding one country then lot of people would chime in..

Gavaskar averaged 40 everywhere except Lanka for ex.

True but these weren't quite normal circumstances, with South Africa not playing any international cricket for most of Border's career due to apartheid.

Nevertheless, both Border and Gavaskar have superb records.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Both Allan Border (56) and Steve Waugh (55) have a better away average than Tendulkar (54).

Border averages 38 in SAF but is actually better than Tendulkar away overall. Criminally underrated batsman outside white belt. But Sachin is probably the only 100+ test batsman who has 40+ average everywhere I guess

 

[Hawkeye]

Younis Khan's averages are pretty good too:

Australia: 50+
England: 50+
New Zealand: 40+
India: 50+
Sri Lanka: 40+
South Africa: mid-30s, which tells you more about South African pitches than Younis Khan.

Example of how stats alone can deceive you.

 

[Convict]

If we start excluding one country then lot of people would chime in..

Gavaskar averaged 40 everywhere except Lanka for ex.

Bit hard on Border when the only reason he didn't average over 40 in South Africa is because South Africa were banned from cricket during his career.

Played against some great attacks as well

 

[ExpressPacer]

Younis Khan's averages are pretty good too:

Australia: 50+
England: 50+
New Zealand: 40+
India: 50+
Sri Lanka: 40+
South Africa: mid-30s, which tells you more about South African pitches than Younis Khan.

If he plays in South Africa now, I think it is safe to say his average would be in the high 40's if not close to 50. A declining Steyn, a good but new Rabada and an inconsistent Philander wont stop him from at least scoring 1 century. And we all know that when he does get a hundred, it is a big one.

 

[HateKiller]

Sachin was something special- even his enemies will accept.

 

[Mamoon]

If he plays in South Africa now, I think it is safe to say his average would be in the high 40's if not close to 50. A declining Steyn, a good but new Rabada and an inconsistent Philander wont stop him from at least scoring 1 century. And we all know that when he does get a hundred, it is a big one.

Depends on the pitches. If they are green, he will get his fishing rod out and embarrass himself like he did in NZ.

On flat wickets, he will probably score a hundred, although not necessarily a big one because the extra pace and bounce in South Africa is quite challenging, even if there isn't much lateral movement.

He did well in SA in 2006 and 2013, but fared poorly in 2002, which was the story of his career till 2005 - got exposed by the ATG 90's bowlers like Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock, McGrath and Warne time and time again due to which he could not establish himself till the tour of India in 2005.

 

[Indiafan]

If he plays in South Africa now, I think it is safe to say his average would be in the high 40's if not close to 50. A declining Steyn, a good but new Rabada and an inconsistent Philander wont stop him from at least scoring 1 century. And we all know that when he does get a hundred, it is a big one.

Yep Sachin corrected his stats for SA in his last tour there in 2010 (?). He did handle an inform Steyn well though. Before that his stats in SA were in the 30s I think

 

[ExpressPacer]

Yep Sachin corrected his stats for SA in his last tour there in 2010 (?). He did handle an inform Steyn well though. Before that his stats in SA were in the 30s I think

Yeah, Sachin was terrific. I would say that was peak Steyn with Kallis still there too.

 

[Ab Fan]

He doesn't qualify in my book because of tendency to avoid certain tours on purpose.

Then you shouldn't add AB de Villiers too...

 

[Romali_rotti]

Yep Sachin corrected his stats for SA in his last tour there in 2010 (?). He did handle an inform Steyn well though. Before that his stats in SA were in the 30s I think

Correct SRT's avg in South Africa was 39 prior to 2010 I believe, Cronje, Brian McMillan etc had a lot to do with this. SRT was not comfortable facing the above bowlers...

 

[Cricfan4eva]

The real question is Sachin even the best overseas batsman from India?

RD and Sunny might disagree...

If stats alone are to be taken at face value, there is no one that can compete with SRT, his numbers are just out of this world.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Younis Khan's averages are pretty good too:

Australia: 50+
England: 50+
New Zealand: 40+
India: 50+
Sri Lanka: 40+
South Africa: mid-30s, which tells you more about South African pitches than Younis Khan.

YK and Sanga have good records but no one rates them as top tier bats because they have largely come in the last few years with most teams struggling to replace their top bowlers who retired. Sanga YK didn't do half as much in last decade when most teams had a solid bowling attack.

 

[Mamoon]

YK and Sanga have good records but no one rates them as top tier bats because they have largely come in the last few years with most teams struggling to replace their top bowlers who retired. Sanga YK didn't do half as much in last decade when most teams had a solid bowling attack.

Sangakkara is most definitely a top-tier batsman. He was below Dravid and Miandad for most of his career but he was incredible in all formats in his last 4-5 years, and I think now as far as Asian batsmen are concerned, only Tendulkar and Gavaskar are ahead of him.

 

[Bewal Express]

Every other day there is a discussion about how good Tendulkar was and no doubt he was great but stop this nonsense about him being the best ever. The best ever don't get hit in the head by FM bowlers as often as he did. If you extrapolate, the poor guy would have been killed by Lillee, Thompson and the Windies quad in the 70s and 80s.

 

[jeetu]

There are many ways to check batsman consistency.
One of the standard is how a player performs in a country and his record vs each country.
So i compiled a list of nearly every players with more than 8000 test runs and see how they fit in this criteria.
So i used Tendulkar as baseline as he has 40+average in each country and also 40+ average vs each country.
I have listed record of each player where his average falls under 40.

S.Tendulkar
9/9
10/10

R.Ponting
9/9
9/11 (26.48 in Ind, 37.80 in Zim)

J.Kallis
8/9 (38.86 vs SL)
8/11 (31.50 in BD, 35.33 in Eng, 35.33 in SL)

R.Dravid
7/9 (38.67 vs Aus, 33.83 vs SA)
8/10 (29.71 in SA, 33.10 in SL)

K.Sangakkara
9/9
8/11 (36.50 in Ind, 35.75 in SA, 34.00 in WI)

B.Lara
8/9 (34.55 vs Ind)
7/9 (33.00 in Ind, 36.90 in NZ)

S.Chanderpul
8/9 (35.72 vs Zim)
6/11 (30.20 vs Aus, 32.54 in Pak, 37.08 in SA, 25.25 in UAE, 31.00 in Zim)

M.Jayawardene
7/9 (33.41 vs Aus, 32.44 vs Pak)
6/11 (31.42 in Aus, 35.81 in Eng, 27.71 in Eng, 27.87 in SA , 29.90 in UAE)

A.Border
5/7 (33.11 vs SA, 39.46 vs WI)
7/8 (38.00 in SA)

S.Waugh
7/9 (38.51 vs NZ, 34.59 vs Pak)
8/10 (35.26 in NZ, 16.60 in SL)

S.Gavaskar
5/6 (38.20 vs Eng)
6/7 (37.20 in SL)

A.Cook
6/8 (39.20 vs Aus, 35.53 vs SA)
7/9 (34.90 in NZ, 31.40 in SA)

G.A.Smith
6/9 (32.57 vs Aus, 37.96 vs Ind, 35.00 vs SL)
8/10 (39.36 in Aus, 35.91 in Ind)

Y.Khan
7/9 (39.60 vs SA, 38.94 vs WI)
9/11 (32.60 in SA, 23.44 in WI)

G.Gooch
5/7 (33.31 vs Aus, 23.16 vs SA)
5/8 (33.00 in Aus, 32.20 in NZ, 26.50 in SL)

J.Miandad
5/7 (29.78 vs WI, 28.60 vs Zim)
4/7 (38.07 in Aus, 15.75 in SL, 33.75 in WI)

Inzamam-ul-Haq
7/9 (31.40 vs Aus, 32.27 vs SA)
8/11 (30.87 in Aus, 31.78 in SA, 25.00 in UAE)

V.Laxman
6/9 (39.00 vs BD, 30.64 vs Eng, 37.53 vs SA)
7/10 (39.00 in BD, 34.47 in Eng, 37.42 in Pak)

M.Clarke
5/8 (25.50 vs BD, 33.37 vs Pak, 39.29 vs WI)
5/9 (25.50 in BD, 39.86 in Eng, 14.25 in UAE, 39.54 in WI)

M.Hayden
7/9 (33.60 vs BD, 36.55 vs NZ)
5/9 (35.66 in BD, 34.50 in Eng,28.14 in NZ, 34.66 in SA)

V.Sehwag
7/9 (35.20 vs BD, 29.32 vs Eng)
6/10 (35.20 in BD, 27.80 in Eng, 20.00 in NZ, 25.46 in SA)

V.Richards
5/5
5/6 (19.25 in NZ)

D.Gower
5/6 (32.82 vs WI)
5/7 (37.20 in Ind, 17.25 in NZ)

K.Pietersen
7/8 (30.20 vs Pak)
6/10 (38.22 in NZ, 33.50 in Pak, 25.88 in SA, 11.16 in UAE)

G.Boycott
4/6 (38.16 vs NZ, 37.30 vs SA)
6/7 (22.37 vs NZ)

AB de Villiers
7/9 (17.25 vs BD, 39.00 vs NZ)
9/11 (33.00 in BD, 7.00 in Zim)

G.Sobers
4/5 (23.76 vs NZ)
4/6 (15.10 in NZ, 32.00 in Pak) - See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ncy-Standards&highlight=#sthash.JoqSVkRu.dpuf

 

[Bilal7]

YK and Sanga have good records but no one rates them as top tier bats because they have largely come in the last few years with most teams struggling to replace their top bowlers who retired. Sanga YK didn't do half as much in last decade when most teams had a solid bowling attack.

By everyone, I think you mean you and maybe a couple other like-minded individuals. Because the rest of the cricketing world surely rates both of these as elite batsmen and bonafide ATGs.

What teams have been struggling to replace their top bowlers? The Saffers haven't had a better attack than they have had this decade, arguably. The Asians have their spinners, Australia have had MJ, Harris, Starc and Hazelwood, New Zealand have Boult, Southee and Henry. England, again, had their best modern day attack with Anderson, Broad and Swann.

So it is completely false to say that these two, or their contemporaries haven't been playing against good attacks. The lull in bowling attacks came in the mid-2000s.

 

[Bilal7]

Example of how stats alone can deceive you.

Considering the fact that I saw him construct these numbers with my own eyes, I'm not the one deceived.

 

[Chrish]

Then you shouldn't add AB de Villiers too...

He wasn't acting this way up until now.. Chappell exhibited this behavior all his career

 

[Chrish]

Bit hard on Border when the only reason he didn't average over 40 in South Africa is because South Africa were banned from cricket during his career.

Played against some great attacks as well

Didn't mean it that way.. Border also played 156 consecutive tests without skipping single one iirc. Phenomenal feat indeed

 

[Tusker]

For batsmane who played more than 100 tests, Tendulkar has the best average in alien conditions (53.2 in Aus, 54.31 in Eng, 49.52 in NZ and 46.44 in SAF). That's right, the little master averages more than 45 each and every one of these countries.

Ironically, Tendulkar's lowest average is 40 in Zimbabwe, which was one of the weakest sides (still a pretty decent team in the 90s). Still 40 is a healthy average and nowhere near bad. Tendulkar doesn't average below 40 in any test nation.

I am not counting batsman who have less than 100 tests since sample size is too small, and average is often inflated for that reason.

So who is the second best overseas after the master blaster?

I think the best stat that highlights how good Tendulkar was in foreign conditions is that he is the only player who as a teenager registered 100s in his first ever visits to Eng, SA and AUS Thats a more remarkable achievement in my opinion. And to just hammer the point he did it again in his 2nd visit to those countries and then again !!

Don't think anyone can come close to that sort of achievements ... extremely high standards.

 

[Hasan123]

Lol at putting Younis up there with Waugh,Border, Sachin, Sanga, .

 

[Junaids]

Why 100 Tests minimum?

Why not 200 Tests minimum?

Why not 15,000 Test runs minimum?

The effect would be the same.

 

[Buffet]

Why 100 Tests minimum?

Why not 200 Tests minimum?

100 tests have 66 players.

Why will you put 200 tests when only one playerr has played 200 tests?

 

[Junaids]

100 tests have 66 players.

Why will you put 200 tests when only one playerr has played 200 tests?

Because this thread's parameters are already biased towards Tendulkar.

Why not have a minimum qualification of 100 First Class centuries? I'd accept that.

 

[Snatch]

Stupid thread title.

It should be "Is Tendulkar the best overseas batsman >100 tests?"

The thread title is both arrogant and pointless as commenting indicates people agree with the premise.

 

[Abdullah719]

On topic please.

 

[Abdullah719]

Stupid thread title.

It should be "Is Tendulkar the best overseas batsman >100 tests?"

The thread title is both arrogant and pointless as commenting indicates people agree with the premise.

You're welcome to respond to OP with a counter-argument for that.

 

[Sachin136]

Because this thread's parameters are already biased towards Tendulkar.

Why not have a minimum qualification of 100 First Class centuries? I'd accept that.

Over 60 players have 100 matches, and playing for that long in international matches implies that they are quality players. On the other hand, only around 20 players have 100 first class centuries, and almost all of those are English players who benefited from playing a lot of FC matches.

 

[Junaids]

One of the best things about this thread is how it steals other player's complimentary nicknames and gives them to Sachin.

To me the Little Master is Hanif Mohammad or Sunil Gavaskar. Nope, it's Sachin

To me the Master Blaster is Viv Richards. Nope, it's Sachin.

So from now on I am going to assume that any mention of Freddie, KP, Mitch, Smithy or Whispering Death is also a reference to Sachin.

By the way, I just consulted StatsGuru.

In his career of 200 Tests, Tendulkar's away fourth innings average was just

28.92

Unfortunately for him, there is the world's biggest sample size to confirm his mediocre record.

By way of modern comparison, Jacques Kallis averaged 41.92, Ricky Ponting averaged 50.93, Kumar Sangakkara averaged 48.36 and Brian Lara - whom I memorably once bracketed with Tendulkar you might recall - averaged 25.08.

Meanwhile the REAL Master Blaster Viv Richards averaged 50.30 in the fourth innings, away.

Looks like the Sachin worshippers will have to go back to relying on testimonials, since the facts about overseas Test batsmen expose Sachin as what he really was.

 

[Chrish]

Why not do the damage in 1st or 2nd inning? Why wait for the 4th inning to begin with?

 

[Messiah]

Why not do the damage in 1st or 2nd inning? Why wait for the 4th inning to begin with?

4th innings records show how the player performs under pressure? What are you even trying to say

 

[Junaids]

Why not do the damage in 1st or 2nd inning? Why wait for the 4th inning to begin with?

Because the fourth innings is when you have to save the match.

Lots of FTBs - Sehwag most notably - have stellar records in the first half of a match. But the fourth innings is when the pitch has deteriorated, and is the ultimate test of both technique and character.

 

[Tusker]

One of the best things about this thread is how it steals other player's complimentary nicknames and gives them to Sachin.

To me the Little Master is Hanif Mohammad or Sunil Gavaskar. Nope, it's Sachin

To me the Master Blaster is Viv Richards. Nope, it's Sachin.

So from now on I am going to assume that any mention of Freddie, KP, Mitch, Smithy or Whispering Death is also a reference to Sachin.

By the way, I just consulted StatsGuru.

In his career of 200 Tests, Tendulkar's away fourth innings average was just

28.92

Unfortunately for him, there is the world's biggest sample size to confirm his mediocre record.

By way of modern comparison, Jacques Kallis averaged 41.92, Ricky Ponting averaged 50.93, Kumar Sangakkara averaged 48.36 and Brian Lara - whom I memorably once bracketed with Tendulkar you might recall - averaged 25.08.

Meanwhile the REAL Master Blaster Viv Richards averaged 50.30 in the fourth innings, away.

Looks like the Sachin worshippers will have to go back to relying on testimonials, since the facts about overseas Test batsmen expose Sachin as what he really was.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...nnings;size=200;template=results;type=batting

So you consider Hobbs, Younis Khan, Boon, Chanderpaul, Langer etc etc to be better batsmen than SRT going by that criteria ?

 

[Messiah]

Sachin was great and all but he wasn't the clear cut best away batsman. The cherry picking stats type of argument in Op is misleading. There are various factors that can affect a batsmen average in certain countries, such as: how many matches they played there, were most or few of the matches played when the player was in his prime, the era in which the matches were played ( Sachin wudnt have had 40 avg in WI playing in the 80s), etc. So if you decide to conclude Sachin is the best away batsmen based on this type of flawed criteria, it's not very convincing.

 

[Messiah]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...nnings;size=200;template=results;type=batting

So you consider Hobbs, Younis Khan, Boon, Chanderpaul, Langer etc etc to be better batsmen than SRT going by that criteria ?

He didn't say he is measuring how good a player is based on that one single criteria. All he is saying is that particular criteria should also be considered when measuring how good a player is. He is bringing a very decent criteria to the table. Nothing wrong with that

 

[Tusker]

Because the fourth innings is when you have to save the match.

Lots of FTBs - Sehwag most notably - have stellar records in the first half of a match. But the fourth innings is when the pitch has deteriorated, and is the ultimate test of both technique and character.

Except that its the Indian pitches that deteriorate much more than anywhere else in the world. There are just 3-4 Indian batsmen who have made a 4th inngs 100 in India.

 

[Junaids]

Except that its the Indian pitches that deteriorate much more than anywhere else in the world. There are just 3-4 Indian batsmen who have made a 4th inngs 100 in India.

Yet I only counted AWAY Test fourth innings records.

Tendulkar was a terrific batsman. One of the best of his generation.

On a par with Ponting and Lara and Kallis and Steve Smith and Joe Root and Kane Williamson.

An ATG.

But not even close to GOAT status. In fact, in his generation, he was unquestionably an inferior overall Cricketer compared to Jacques Kallis, Adam Gilchrist and Shane Warne and arguably also Wasim Akram.

At least they were all in the All-Time Top Two in their discipline. Sachin wasn't even close.

 

[Chrish]

4th innings records show how the player performs under pressure? What are you even trying to say

Because the fourth innings is when you have to save the match.

Lots of FTBs - Sehwag most notably - have stellar records in the first half of a match. But the fourth innings is when the pitch has deteriorated, and is the ultimate test of both technique and character.

Steve Waugh is the mentally toughest batsman I saw and lot of people would choose him to bat for their life.

The guy averaged 25 in 4th inning.. Shows you how meaningless the stat is.

Prevention is always better than cure..

 

[Tusker]

Yet I only counted AWAY Test fourth innings records.

Which is why stats without context and substantiation thru proper cricketing reasoning are not conclusive.

( I know this thread is about away stats )

Tendulkar was a terrific batsman. One of the best of his generation.

On a par with Ponting and Lara and Kallis and Steve Smith and Joe Root and Kane Williamson.

An ATG.

But not even close to GOAT status. In fact, in his generation, he was unquestionably an inferior overall Cricketer compared to Jacques Kallis, Adam Gilchrist and Shane Warne and arguably also Wasim Akram.

At least they were all in the All-Time Top Two in their discipline. Sachin wasn't even close.

You do realize that you are in the 1% Minority even if you want to pretend that All Indian fans are parochial and all Aussies and Saffies are the most objective of fans devoid of any bias.

Curious to know why you think they are better overall cricketers.

 

[Messiah]

Which is why stats without context and substantiation thru proper cricketing reasoning are not conclusive.

( I know this thread is about away stats )



You do realize that you are in the 1% Minority even if you want to pretend that All Indian fans are parochial and all Aussies and Saffies are the most objective of fans devoid of any bias.

Curious to know why you think they are better overall cricketers.

Kallis has similar averages to Sachin AND was a decent bowler.
Warne is by far the best spinner of all time. There are many batsmen who came close and exceeded Sachins averages. Not many have done what Warne did.
Gilchrist averaged close to Sachin while being a top WK.

Seems pretty clear to me. And no many Indian fans are not delusional. It's just the vocal minority

 

[Tusker]

Kallis has similar averages to Sachin AND was a decent bowler.
Warne is by far the best spinner of all time. There are many batsmen who came close and exceeded Sachins averages. Not many have done what Warne did.
Gilchrist averaged close to Sachin while being a top WK.

Seems pretty clear to me. And no many Indian fans are not delusional. It's just the vocal minority

The thing is I have never heard anyone who seriously followed Tendulkars Career thru the 90s and 00s even mention those names alongside Tendulkar in a serious discussion. Not even the gentlemen themselves would do that. Why you ask ? See my earlier post # 32 as just one of many many reasons.

 

[Messiah]

The thing is I have never heard anyone who seriously followed Tendulkars Career thru the 90s and 00s even mention those names alongside Tendulkar in a serious discussion. Not even the gentlemen themselves would do that. Why you ask ? See my earlier post # 32 as just one of many many reasons.

I trust the stats more than human memory. Even if someone watched all those players throughout their careers, humans only remember certain parts and forget a lot of important things. And I don't think Tendulkar himself would say he was better than any of those people mentioned himself either. You don't say these stuff in public

 

[street cricketer]

I thought the conditions overseas were difficult to bat in the first day and gets easier as the days progress and vice versa in India (&SL and Pakistan).

Seems like I had things mixed up all this time..

 

[Messiah]

And I have watched all those players and I think Warne was by far better than Tendulkar. I don't think there is any spinner close to Warner caliber.

 

[street cricketer]

And I have watched all those players and I think Warne was by far better than Tendulkar. I don't think there is any spinner close to Warner caliber.

Failed badly against the best spin playing team of his era. If he was Asian, he would've been branded as a home track bully and drug cheat by the anglo media.

All cricketers have loopholes in their record if you look deep into it (including Sachin). More obvious in the case of Warne though, so I fail to understand how Warne was a "far better" cricketer than Sachin.

 

[Messiah]

Failed badly against the best spin playing team of his era. If he was Asian, he would've been branded as a home track bully and drug cheat by the anglo media.

All cricketers have loopholes in their record if you look deep into it (including Sachin). More obvious in the case of Warne though, so I fail to understand how Warne was a "far better" cricketer than Sachin.

So which spinner was better or even close. Other than murali who had some chucking issues I don't want to get into right now. Point is. You can't directly compare a batsman to a bowler. You have to compare how much better a batsman or bowler is to other batsmen or bowler. Anyways I did mention in the previous post that I trust stats more than human memory. And this may be an example of that if I am proven wrong by stats

 

[Tusker]

I trust the stats more than human memory. Even if someone watched all those players throughout their careers, humans only remember certain parts and forget a lot of important things.

This is why you have arrived at a faulty conclusion ... I will give you a very simple example ... there is an inngs in the Carribean against Amby and Co where Tendulkar batted in difficult conditions and it wasnt even a 50 ... it is rated very highly by all those who saw that inngs because of how difficult it was to bat ... ditto in NZ in 2002 and that 136 and the 50 odd on the dust bowl in Mumbai ... the 111 against Donald and so on. The thing is in most of those inngs his contribution is not something that will impact his stats like a big triple hundred not out but those who watched it will remain in doubt that this guy could bat like no one else could.

Bit like Kohli vs Jadhav the other day ... Kohli played a superior inngs as far as batting aesthetics is concerned.

And I don't think Tendulkar himself would say he was better than any of those people mentioned himself either. You don't say these stuff in public

Agreed but they all have said that Tendulkar is the greatest there ever was or words to that effect and it really is a no brainer unless you want to look at 53.7 and say hey I can find 10 guys with better stats than that .... cricket doesnt work like that.

In any case there is a mega thread on Tendulkar that has answers to all of these questions and some.

 

[Abdullah719]

On topic please.

A reminder. Warne's status amongst best cricketers, etc. has no relevance to the thread.