Toss Advantage: Is this the new 'Home' advantage in Test cricket?

[Shandarchowka]

We're seeing an era where all teams are relatively weak in test cricket, displaying some weakness even at home. Is the toss the most crucial to win matches these days? Case in point - England tour of Sri Lanka where Joe Root won all tosses and won the series. Also the ongoing Australia - India series. Kohli has won 3 tosses and this test is also going in a familiar direction. Should toss be abandoned altogether and a better system put in place? Maybe the touring side/team ranked lower deciding what can be done? It will be a true challenge for teams which are stronger. It will also make sure that fair pitches are given for all teams (unlike the one we recently saw at Centurion) and makes test matches more interesting!

Discuss.

 

[BreadPakoda]

True. India lost all tosses in England. What could have been a 3-2 or 4-1 in India’s favour ended in a 1-4 loss. Same in SA. We won all the games where we won the toss. Could have been a 2-1 or even 3-0 had we won two more tosses.

Pakistan lost a once in a lifetime opportunity against this weak SA in the last game. After winning the toss, they should have won the game.

 

[BreadPakoda]

However I disagree with abandoning toss and giving the advantage to the visitors. Lets keep it the way it is.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Unfortunately test cricket has become a lottery these days with the toss advantage. I think we can all agree that there is no outstanding team these days and all teams can beat the other, regardless of ranking, with that advantage.

 

[TM Riddle]

Now it is.

 

[Iqbal6]

True. India lost all tosses in England. What could have been a 3-2 or 4-1 in India’s favour ended in a 1-4 loss. Same in SA. We won all the games where we won the toss. Could have been a 2-1 or even 3-0 had we won two more tosses.

Pakistan lost a once in a lifetime opportunity against this weak SA in the last game. After winning the toss, they should have won the game.

England tour of India 2016-2017 - 5 Match Test Series

England won 4 out of 5 Toss and lost all 4 matches.

Series ended with 4-0

 

[Rahul1]

I think you guys won the toss in the first test against South Africa.

 

[BreadPakoda]

England tour of India 2016-2017 - 5 Match Test Series

England won 4 out of 5 Toss and lost all 4 matches.

Series ended with 4-0

One of the bigger exceptions these days. And that’s because India is GOAT at home.

 

[Shandarchowka]

One of the bigger exceptions these days. And that’s because India is GOAT at home.

Australia too is, of course with Smith and Warner in the team. Without those two, they're struggling.

 

[Sin Nombre]

Shandarchowka

India lose in England - lol, India got smashed. Dey so bad.

India win in Australia - winning toss too big an advantage.


PP, never change.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Unfortunately test cricket has become a lottery these days with the toss advantage. I think we can all agree that there is no outstanding team these days and all teams can beat the other, regardless of ranking, with that advantage.

Incorrect. Poor teams will lose despite winning toss. Eg. Pakistan lost against SA and IIRC Zimbabwe too lost similarly.
And as someone pointed out India won against England despite losing tosses. So good teams will overcome it.

That’s why I want it to remain as is.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Its a problem when the teams are near about at the same level as it tilts the scale in the favour of the team that wins the toss.

E.g. India in England is as good as England at home. India was as good as SA in SA, and definitely better than the current depleted SA.

In these two cases, toss played a huge role.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Incorrect. Poor teams will lose despite winning toss. Eg. Pakistan lost against SA and IIRC Zimbabwe too lost similarly.
And as someone pointed out India won against England despite losing tosses. So good teams will overcome it.

That’s why I want it to remain as is.

The same Indian team lost to England (much improved with Mooen firing and the all round talent flowing).

 

[BreadPakoda]

The same Indian team lost to England (much improved with Mooen firing and the all round talent flowing).

Because of losing the toss, as you rightly pointed out. Had India won the tosses, it would have been 3-2 or even 4-1.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Toss + Home advantage is massive . Good teams like India win at least at home even when we lose tosses and win away when we win the toss. Weaker teams can't win even at home if they don't win the toss and cant press their toss advantage either away.

 

[BreadPakoda]

India at home is GOAT. Away, as good as you can get this decade, with results marred by continuous toss losses.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Toss + Home advantage is massive . Good teams like India win at least at home even when we lose tosses and win away when we win the toss. Weaker teams can't win even at home if they don't win the toss and cant press their toss advantage either away.

This thread hurts. Makes me realise we could have won 3 tours in SEA with just a bit of luck at the toss. Would have been epic.

 

[Sin Nombre]

This thread hurts. Makes me realise we could have won 3 tours in SEA with just a bit of luck at the toss. Would have been epic.

Definitely would have won in England with even 2 tosses won.

 

[WengerOut]

Could somebody post a list of matches won by teams away after losing the toss?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

This thread hurts. Makes me realise we could have won 3 tours in SEA with just a bit of luck at the toss. Would have been epic.

Doesn't matter. We are not an ATG side. Merely better than the rest and the rankings reflect just that. Luck will come and go. Nothing we can do about it. Interestingly, I think India is the only place where toss doesn't seem to matter much - India win no matter who seems to win the toss - Pune test being the sole exception in the last 6 years. So, if they were to get rid of the toss ad give visiting teams the choice to bat or bowl first, it would benefit the Indian team more than anyone else.

 

[JaDed]

Didn't get England lose against India in India in spite of winning the toss?

 

[BreadPakoda]

Definitely would have won in England with even 2 tosses won.

Even in SA. Although this is an AB-less SA, Pakistan had its moments against it after winning the toss.
We could have won against SA. We should change the captain during the toss.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Doesn't matter. We are not an ATG side. Merely better than the rest and the rankings reflect just that. Luck will come and go. Nothing we can do about it. Interestingly, I think India is the only place where toss doesn't seem to matter much - India win no matter who seems to win the toss - Pune test being the sole exception in the last 6 years. So, if they were to get rid of the toss ad give visiting teams the choice to bat or bowl first, it would benefit the Indian team more than anyone else.

Combination of bad squad selection and injury also played some role in not getting better results.

 

[Kaptan]

It does play a role especially when both the teams are evenly matched.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Root is one lucky man. Won all tosses against India, home and away and won all in SL as well.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Didn't get England lose against India in India in spite of winning the toss?

England was not playing well back then. Moeen was truly awful. He was rightfully dropped and he came back and thumped India back on unhelpful pitches in England. Also, they added extra depth in Curran as well. Not right to bring that awful team into discussion.

 

[Ramsay]

England was not playing well back then. Moeen was truly awful. He was rightfully dropped and he came back and thumped India back on unhelpful pitches in England. Also, they added extra depth in Curran as well. Not right to bring that awful team into discussion.

What about Pakistan?

Is Pakistan awful too, as it lost the last test against SA after winning the toss? Lol

 

[JaDed]

England was not playing well back then. Moeen was truly awful. He was rightfully dropped and he came back and thumped India back on unhelpful pitches in England. Also, they added extra depth in Curran as well. Not right to bring that awful team into discussion.

Are you kidding, everyone expected England to do well then after first test lol and are you saying they would beat us if they come now? Mate Moen in England and Moen in India are diff, we would smack Smack Rashid and Moen so let it go and accept India in India is very hard for any team, only Aus won a single test here.

 

[JaDed]

I like the excuses for England getting smacked 4-0 in India, man would had been amazing had India won tosses in England would had seen some posters whine about it.

Hopefully PCT again wins the toss

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Combination of bad squad selection and injury also played some role in not getting better results.

But that is the manangement's fault. No one else's. We haven't managed injuries and workload and not given the Indian cap to deserving youngsters like Siraj. Also not having a single practice game in England was a disaster imo. But can we really blame anyone for that? I don't think so. Just hope that on the bnext away cycle we don't make such pathetic choices.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Are you kidding, everyone expected England to do well then after first test lol and are you saying they would beat us if they come now? Mate Moen in England and Moen in India are diff, we would smack Smack Rashid and Moen so let it go and accept India in India is very hard for any team, only Aus won a single test here.

Also, Moen had the massive toss advantage in England too as the OP rightly pointed out.

 

[Robert]

We're seeing an era where all teams are relatively weak in test cricket, displaying some weakness even at home. Is the toss the most crucial to win matches these days? Case in point - England tour of Sri Lanka where Joe Root won all tosses and won the series. Also the ongoing Australia - India series. Kohli has won 3 tosses and this test is also going in a familiar direction. Should toss be abandoned altogether and a better system put in place? Maybe the touring side/team ranked lower deciding what can be done? It will be a true challenge for teams which are stronger. It will also make sure that fair pitches are given for all teams (unlike the one we recently saw at Centurion) and makes test matches more interesting!

Discuss.

No. We live in an era where batters are stereotyped and do not know how to bat on away wickets.

Also they are all about scoring fast rather than crease occupation and do not know how to force draws.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kohli has lost way too many tosses in his career.

Lost in SA
Lost in England
Lost at home against England 4 times.

 

[BlackShadow]

True, currently India is the only team in the world that can whitewash any side at home despite losing every single toss. Others however are very much reliant on toss.

 

[Shandarchowka]

True, currently India is the only team in the world that can whitewash any side at home despite losing every single toss. Others however are very much reliant on toss.

Remember Pune back in India? Smith actually singlehandedly dismantled full strength Indian team on a rankturner.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Remember Pune back in India? Smith actually singlehandedly dismantled full strength Indian team on a rankturner.

Of course, everyone remembers. The number of times India's sole home loss in 5 years is mentioned on this forum makes sure everyone remembers.

 

[BlackShadow]

Remember Pune back in India? Smith actually singlehandedly dismantled full strength Indian team on a rankturner.

Lmao, how is this relevant to your point unless your only objective is trolling.

Indians win 90% of the matches despite losing the toss in India, so surely they are an exception among other inferior sides that are only good when they win the toss. Pakistan in UAE is a good example of that, can't do jack when they lose the toss.

 

[BlackShadow]

Imagine India winning some tosses in England and South Africa. All those South African and Sam Curran heroics would have been thumping victories for India.

Too bad king Kohli seemed cursed when it came to toss.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Lmao, how is this relevant to your point unless your only objective is trolling.

Indians win 90% of the matches despite losing the toss in India, so surely they are an exception among other inferior sides that are only good when they win the toss. Pakistan in UAE is a good example of that, can't do jack when they lose the toss.

Of course, it is in line with your point. I just gave you counter argument that India didn't whitewash Australia after losing toss at Pune. In fact they go thrashed.

 

[BlackShadow]

Of course, it is in line with your point. I just gave you counter argument that India didn't whitewash Australia after losing toss at Pune. In fact they go thrashed.

When highlighting trends, arguments aren't based on exceptions, but the norm.

Of course teams will lose a match every now and then.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Imagine India winning some tosses in England and South Africa. All those South African and Sam Curran heroics would have been thumping victories for India.

Too bad king Kohli seemed cursed when it came to toss.

True. 3 series wins in SEA would have been epic. Kohli has been unlucky.

 

[Zakaz]

Lol, are you trying to say that we Pakistanisare so miserable that we lose after winning tosses? Straight after losing home series to New Zealand?

 

[BreadPakoda]

Another chance for Pakistan to bat first. They have to take advantage of this and the weak SA to win the game and prove they are capable of playing against the big boys.

 

[Balthazar]

It seems like Faf don't really rate Pakistan team that much. He opted to bowl first?

 

[Savage]

Tbh Toss advantage > Home advantage in 2018.Let's see what 2019 has in store.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Tbh Toss advantage > Home advantage in 2018.Let's see what 2019 has in store.

More like batting first > Home advantage

That's why Pakistan losing twice batting first would be criminal in this day and age..

 

[Savage]

More like batting first > Home advantage

That's why Pakistan losing twice batting first would be criminal in this day and age..

Can't disagree on that.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Of course, it is in line with your point. I just gave you counter argument that India didn't whitewash Australia after losing toss at Pune. In fact they go thrashed.

In 6 years we have only lost test at home REGARDLESS if toss. That's a record that other teams can only hope to have.

 

[latecut]

Being able to score runs against high class bowling- this is the advantage that matters. If your team cannot last for even three sessions then winning or losing toss becomes immaterial, as is being demonstrated right now in South Africa.

 

[Robert]

More like batting first > Home advantage

That's why Pakistan losing twice batting first would be criminal in this day and age..

The decision to bat or bowl first can be tricky in England as the weather could be better for bowling on day one or two. Thought bowling first can be seen as giving away the initiative.

Bradman said bat first regardless, but he was a super-genius who made his own rules.

 

[Smbhayi]

not really.. most of the Indian loss due to selection blunders..

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

I agree that the toss should be abandoned.

One option would be for the visiting side to choose whether to bat or bowl for all the tests.

A second option would be for the visiting side to choose whether to bat or bowl for the first test. For the second, the home side. And then continue to alternate from there.

One team losing all the tosses on tour just skews the results so much in favor of the home side.

 

[Mamoon]

Clearly does not apply to Pakistan.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Clearly does not apply to Pakistan.

It does for their "home" tests. It would hopefully encourage more sporting pitches.

 

[hadi123]

The toss plays a big part, I believe it's as big as home advantage.

 

[MMHS]

The toss plays a big part, I believe it's as big as home advantage.

Sarfraz would have batted first for sure here. Faf gave PAK a New Year’s gift on this track with Yasir in, batsmen blew it before lunch. Had SAF batted first, they could have ended the day 303/4, then 551 just after Tea on Day 2. It’s the gap between the teams, not toss. Test is a 2 innings game - you don’t loose it by one toss.

 

[Buffet]

Toss is a factor when teams are close to each other in certain conditions. I don't think toss has been too big a factor when team visits India. Plenty of them win toss, but result is still the same. Margin of defeat gets reduced, but gap is too wide to change final result.

Toss does plays a part when gap is not big enough.

 

[The Viper]

Toss is a factor when teams are close to each other in certain conditions. I don't think toss has been too big a factor when team visits India. Plenty of them win toss, but result is still the same. Margin of defeat gets reduced, but gap is too wide to change final result.

Toss does plays a part when gap is not big enough.

Agree with this. Pak are nowhere near SAF with the pathetic batting. So the toss does not benefit them. But if the teams are closely matched then it would make a diffrence. E.g- India have the batsman to succeed in Aus batting first.

 

[Ab Fan]

Clearly does not apply to Pakistan.

It does.

On home/UAE pitches: -

If Pakistan wins toss: - Pakistan wins
Loses toss: - Opposition wins

Away from home except England: -

Loses tosses: - Opposition wins
Wins toss: - Opposition wins here as well though

 

[Ab Fan]

Faf actually trolled Pakistan team and Sarfaraz by asking them to bat on a first day bat pitch and his bowlers have managed to stood up on Faf's decision.

 

[Tusker]

We're seeing an era where all teams are relatively weak in test cricket,displaying some weakness even at home.

What weakness does India have at home ?

 

[Mamoon]

It does.

On home/UAE pitches: -

If Pakistan wins toss: - Pakistan wins
Loses toss: - Opposition wins

Away from home except England: -

Loses tosses: - Opposition wins
Wins toss: - Opposition wins here as well though

My point was that we lost the first Test after winning the toss. Also, Faf clearly humiliated us by opting to bowl first on a good batting surface because he is aware of the fact that our batting is worth nothing. Had we won the toss, we would have opted to bat first as well.

We are 2-0 down here after effectively winning two tosses. This shows that while winning the toss and batting first is a big advantage, you still have to bat well to make it count.

 

[K4Kohli]

Haha. This forum suddenly realized the advantage of toss when India won more tosses this series but were silent when India lost all the tosses in England. But I am glad people realized this atleast now. Even Faf du plesis said this when they were touring Srilanka. Although giving the total advantage to the touring side is unfair but it should be divided I feel. There should be even number of matches and each team would choose the preference in alternate matches and toss should exist only for the first match.

 

[AAli98]

Toss or no toss, if pak batsman are not going to apply themselves & score 400/500 bat once & bat big, like SA are doing at the moment then 0-3 are going to be a regular occurrence.

If they applied themselves in the moring session pitch got flatter as the day went on.

 

[K4Kohli]

But I am proud to say for the true No1 India

Home - India will win regardless of the toss. Also not just home in any other countries except SENA.
In SENA - Win the toss win the match lost the toss and loss the match. Although I feel India can compete with current SA and New zealand regarless of toss and vice versa as well.

 

[K4Kohli]

but ROFL bhai, ye tho self goal hogaya

 

[BaankeJi]

My point was that we lost the first Test after winning the toss. Also, Faf clearly humiliated us by opting to bowl first on a good batting surface because he is aware of the fact that our batting is worth nothing. Had we won the toss, we would have opted to bat first as well.

We are 2-0 down here after effectively winning two tosses. This shows that while winning the toss and batting first is a big advantage, you still have to bat well to make it count.

Faf opted to bowl because he is not confident of his team's batting.

 

[BDfanforever]

It's not the toss, IND would beat this Aussie side even after losing the toss. Current Aus is ranked number 5 and number 6 in ODI for a reason. If you take away their 2015 WC performance, they would slide below Bangladesh in ODI. That tells you how bad they have been playing ever since winning that world cup.

 

[WengerOut]

What weakness does India have at home ?

Playing Australia at Pune in Feb 2017. That weakness cannot be corrected ever.

 

[Tusker]

Playing Australia at Pune in Feb 2017. That weakness cannot be corrected ever.

takes a lot of trolling skills to take that one loss and keep trolling month after month as though we lost that series

 

[Enforcer]

That is why he is their captain.

 

[Ab Fan]

My point was that we lost the first Test after winning the toss. Also, Faf clearly humiliated us by opting to bowl first on a good batting surface because he is aware of the fact that our batting is worth nothing. Had we won the toss, we would have opted to bat first as well.

We are 2-0 down here after effectively winning two tosses. This shows that while winning the toss and batting first is a big advantage, you still have to bat well to make it count.

I was saying that about Pakistan only. They seem to be losing matches even when they win toss away from home.

 

[Mamoon]

Faf opted to bowl because he is not confident of his team's batting.

Perhaps not, but he was confident that our inept batsmen would fail to take advantage of batting first. So far, the game has panned out exactly the way he wanted.

In spite of not having confidence in his batting, he wouldn’t have risked bowling first against other teams.

 

[Mamoon]

^ With the exception of Australia.

 

[yasir]

India has not lost a match in last 3 years, when they won the toss, regardless of where match is played, that is remarkable.

We don’t have batting to take advantage of toss, because when you win toss, you bat first and we don’t have batting to take advantage of day 1 wicket, we are usually out of f the game in first session except in uae

 

[Napa]

Auction and no more tosses is the right answer

At this point it is undeniable that the winner of the toss gets a big advantage. A game should be a competition in which each team is given the same opportunity, and not something in which luck plays a major role.

Auction is the answer. Let both teams A and B inspect the pitch, study the weather forecast etc. After that say A bids 30 runs and B bids 33 runs (it can be secret bids or competitive bids). Then B gets to choose who bats first, but A begins its innings at 33/0.

It will make the game more interesting. Pundits will write dozens of articles dissecting and criticizing the amount of runs bid by the teams. PP will have multiple threads in the same vein.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Sarfraz would have batted first for sure here. Faf gave PAK a New Year’s gift on this track with Yasir in, batsmen blew it before lunch. Had SAF batted first, they could have ended the day 303/4, then 551 just after Tea on Day 2. It’s the gap between the teams, not toss. Test is a 2 innings game - you don’t loose it by one toss.

This is what i was saying. Faf literally gifted every advantage to PAK by letting them bat on first day when there were no cracks and batting was at its easiest. PAK batting second would have been a humiliation beyond compare. The gulf between the bowling attacks in these conditions is huge.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Perhaps not, but he was confident that our inept batsmen would fail to take advantage of batting first. So far, the game has panned out exactly the way he wanted.

In spite of not having confidence in his batting, he wouldn’t have risked bowling first against other teams.

Certainly not against current NZ, India, England. Against other teams he might risk this strategy again.