Turkey coup: military attempt to seize power from Erdogan as low flying jets and gunfire heard

[Varun]

Turkey wobbling away for the last 3 years; what has happened over this period has probably set it back a good 10-15 years or so.

They need to get their act together, and fast.

 

[Robert]

Dunno how I feel about this. Had visions of another Ataturk emerging to install truer democracy. Now the authoritarian Erdogan's position will be strengthened.

 

[LongHorn]

Yes, I know most Turk civilians did military service so the awe of a person in uniform isnt there, but still public images of uniformed soldiers being whipped by belt wielding civilians isnt going to be good in the long run

 

[irfan]

Dunno how I feel about this. Had visions of another Ataturk emerging to install truer democracy. Now the authoritarian Erdogan's position will be strengthened.

so you support democracy when it suits you?

 

[godzilla]

so you support democracy when it suits you?

its a very telling comment isnt it, and disappointing how widespread this type of opinion is the lands of the liberated free.

 

[dayvancowboy]

its a very telling comment isnt it, and disappointing how widespread this type of opinion is the lands of the liberated free.

You have Muslims in the West who support forced veiling in Muslim countries but then cry foul over niqab bans in the West.

It's not like either side has any high moral ground here.

 

[godzilla]

You have Muslims in the West who support forced veiling in Muslim countries but then cry foul over niqab bans in the West.

It's not like either side has any high moral ground here.

?

for a self appointed liberal society which prides itself on democratic principles enough to kill millions of people in the name of liberty, to compare their hypocrisy with closed illiberal societies i think says more about a poor grasp of logic as well as setting your standards according to those of thing you hate.

bizarre and pointless.

 

[Robert]

so you support democracy when it suits you?

Hitler was elected democratically, and Erdogan is beginning to act like a tyrant, abolishing free press and killing the Turkish Kurds so yes, I am saying that. Democracy is not God, it's a tool.

 

[Mamoon]

In 2003, when Erdogan became PM of Turkey, 1 USD was equivalent to 1,640 Turkish liras.

Today, 1 USD is equivalent to 1.32 Turkish liras.

No doubt despite internal differences, all political parties support him today. The West is unhappy the coup did not succeed.

In addition, he is re-embracing Putin; he apologized for shooting down the Russian plane and Russia is opening up trade, which acceptable to the U.S.

However, this is the Western/American point of view.

The Turkish point of view is more important.

All Turkish political parties came out to save democracy; he turned out to be the main beneficiary by being the incumbent.

This shows how Turkish people and economy has benefited from four decades of democracy. As a result, after this, the threat of another intervention will minimal.

I really hope this will have an indirect impact on our internal situation and other developing countries too.

We don't leave our governments in peace from day one. Leave democratically elected governments in charge and let them complete their tenures without military coups, things will only improve.

 

[Varun]

In 2003, when Erdogan became PM of Turkey, 1 USD was equivalent to 1,640 Turkish liras.

Today, 1 USD is equivalent to 1.32 Turkish liras.

Please read up on why that is the case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_lira#Second_Turkish_lira_.282005.E2.80.93present.29

It's just glorified juggling of accounts.

 

[dayvancowboy]

Hitler was elected democratically, and Erdogan is beginning to act like a tyrant, abolishing free press and killing the Turkish Kurds so yes, I am saying that. Democracy is not God, it's a tool.

Hungarian leader Orban has been doing the same to its free press and brutalizing refugees, so why don't you extend the same criticism to him as well?

Besides, there's no death penalty in Turkey so comparing him to Hitler is idiotic. And yes I have said the same thing to many far-left clowns who said the same thing about Bush being Hitler (and I was vehemently anti-Bush then and still am).

 

[dayvancowboy]

Those who are cheering this coup, do you remember what happened the last time a "West-leaning" European nation was a victim of a military coup? Take a good look at Greece circa 1967. America, along with the rest of Western Europe, were staunch supporters of the junta. And ask any Greek to this day, almost 5 decades later, that they still hate America for that.

They still hate America, in spite of President Clinton himself apologizing to the Greek nation in November 1999 for its role in supporting it.

Anti-Western sentiment will be even more prominent in Turkey thanks to this attempted coup.

 

[Saeed]

Hitler was elected democratically, and Erdogan is beginning to act like a tyrant, abolishing free press and killing the Turkish Kurds so yes, I am saying that. Democracy is not God, it's a tool.

Agreed about free press. I hope this little coup taught him a lesson. Kurdish conflict has been going on long before Erdogan came to power. Even Ataturk didn't favor them. Read about kocgiri rebellion. Kurds want independence and you're mistaken if you think military rule is going to let them break Turkey apart.

 

[Robert]

The Kurds should have been given a homeland after the Ottoman Empire was busted up.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The Kurds should have been given a homeland after the Ottoman Empire was busted up.

The good ol British empire, made sure the European Jews got a homeland by giving them someone else homeland but didn't have the same love for the Kurds I guess.

On topic, Erdogan will do pretty much he likes now.

 

[speed]

NATO military coup failed, surprisingly just a few days after Erdogen wanted to normalise ties with Russia.

 

[Robert]

The good ol British empire, made sure the European Jews got a homeland by giving them someone else homeland but didn't have the same love for the Kurds.

Poor old Kurds did not have such good PR in London.

 

[dayvancowboy]

Poor old Kurds did not have such good PR in London.

Neither did Assyrians.

 

[Nostalgic]

NATO military coup failed, surprisingly just a few days after Erdogen wanted to normalise ties with Russia.

If it had really been orchestrated by NATO, wouldn't they have got the chief of the military and the top generals on board, rather than this amateurish attempt by a few units?

 

[speed]

If it had really been orchestrated by NATO, wouldn't they have got the chief of the military and the top generals on board, rather than this amateurish attempt by a few units?

European leaning generals for sure.

 

[dayvancowboy]

If it had really been orchestrated by NATO, wouldn't they have got the chief of the military and the top generals on board, rather than this amateurish attempt by a few units?

Exactly. Speed just likes to come up with any rubbish to fit his anti-Western narrative without any evidence. Same guy that says Ataturk is a Western puppet when it was him that liberated Anatolia from European colonial powers.

 

[Saeed]

NATO military coup failed, surprisingly just a few days after Erdogen wanted to normalise ties with Russia.

NATO, White House, EU, Germany and UN said they back the democratic government of Turkey.

 

[speed]

NATO, White House, EU, Germany and UN said they back the democratic government of Turkey.

Only after it was clear that the coup was a failure.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hitler was elected democratically, and Erdogan is beginning to act like a tyrant, abolishing free press and killing the Turkish Kurds so yes, I am saying that. Democracy is not God, it's a tool.

Would you prefer that tool to be at the mercy of those outside of the people of the nation? It's the one reason I always backed democracy, at least the blame couldn't be laid at someone else's door.

 

[Thivagar]

The Kurds should have been given a homeland after the Ottoman Empire was busted up.

It is all your fault. But at least I get to live in a nice country, where I have more options of various food. Yum Yum Yum. Just remember that just like how US/Canada/Australia/NZ/ and South America will never be ethnically pure or be ran by the natives, England will also start becoming more multicultural and religious.

 

[LongHorn]

I wasn't supporting the coup, as the Generals would have been worse than Erdogan, but after seeing the worshipping of him, particularly by fellow Bengalis, Pakistanis and Somalis, as "leader Of Ummah", "Hero of Palestine", "lion" and some sort of symbol of democracy, please let us remind ourselves that:

1) He never considered ISIS as "bad" until Turkey was attacked

2) Does not tolerate any criticism of him, in Turkey and anywhere else - very democratic indeed

3) The Kurds, well....

4) Corruption in his family, many Pakistanis seem to think Nawaz is corrupt and Erdogan is squeaky clean, well...

 

[dayvancowboy]

I wasn't supporting the coup, as the Generals would have been worse than Erdogan, but after seeing the worshipping of him, particularly by fellow Bengalis, Pakistanis and Somalis, as "leader Of Ummah", "Hero of Palestine", "lion" and some sort of symbol of democracy, please let us remind ourselves that:

1) He never considered ISIS as "bad" until Turkey was attacked

2) Does not tolerate any criticism of him, in Turkey and anywhere else - very democratic indeed

3) The Kurds, well....

4) Corruption in his family, many Pakistanis seem to think Nawaz is corrupt and Erdogan is squeaky clean, well...

Those three groups seem to have a fixation towards 'fair-skinned Muslims'. Why so surprised?

 

[Robert]

It is all your fault.

How am I personally responsible for a decision taken decades before I was born?

England, or rather the UK is already a multiculture. Though it will become even less religious over time, I predict. More and more people realise you don't need religion to be happy.

 

[Convict]

It is all your fault. But at least I get to live in a nice country, where I have more options of various food. Yum Yum Yum. Just remember that just like how US/Canada/Australia/NZ/ and South America will never be ethnically pure or be ran by the natives, England will also start becoming more multicultural and religious.

By the logic people are beginning to use England was never run by the natives because Saxons are from Germany.

 

[Aviator]

These traitors must be brought to justice...
Minimum punishment = Death.
Execute them in front of public.
Give a clear message so that no one ever dare to repeat this..

 

[Thivagar]

How am I personally responsible for a decision taken decades before I was born?

England, or rather the UK is already a multiculture. Though it will become even less religious over time, I predict. More and more people realise you don't need religion to be happy.

By the logic people are beginning to use England was never run by the natives because Saxons are from Germany.

You take responsible for everything that has occurred prior to 1940s as you are from that generation. Jokes, well just saying that England continue to lose its "Englishness" down the road. Religion will die out within the next half a century. People will follow it as more of a tradition than someone dictating from the skies.

By the same logic we are all from Africa anyway.

 

[Thivagar]

These traitors must be brought to justice...
Minimum punishment = Death.
Execute them in front of public.
Give a clear message so that no one ever dare to repeat this..

Please be never become a politician in your life.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

In 2003, when Erdogan became PM of Turkey, 1 USD was equivalent to 1,640 Turkish liras.

Today, 1 USD is equivalent to 1.32 Turkish liras.

No doubt despite internal differences, all political parties support him today. The West is unhappy the coup did not succeed.

In addition, he is re-embracing Putin; he apologized for shooting down the Russian plane and Russia is opening up trade, which acceptable to the U.S.

However, this is the Western/American point of view.

The Turkish point of view is more important.

All Turkish political parties came out to save democracy; he turned out to be the main beneficiary by being the incumbent.

This shows how Turkish people and economy has benefited from four decades of democracy. As a result, after this, the threat of another intervention will minimal.

I really hope this will have an indirect impact on our internal situation and other developing countries too.

We don't leave our governments in peace from day one. Leave democratically elected governments in charge and let them complete their tenures without military coups, things will only improve.

The exchange rate of a currency in and of itself doesn't say anything about the strength of that country's economy. Although the trend of might (don't know as I'm not an economist).

But the Bangladeshi taka is "worth" more than the Japanese yen...so exchange rates itself don't mean much.

 

[Robert]

Would you prefer that tool to be at the mercy of those outside of the people of the nation? It's the one reason I always backed democracy, at least the blame couldn't be laid at someone else's door.

I note that the Turkish military has intervened several times to restore Turkish democracy to Ataturk's model.

Now Erdogan has arrested thousands of soldiers, civil servants and judges. Is comparison with the early thirties Hitler that far off the mark?

 

[chacha kashmiri]

I note that the Turkish military has intervened several times to restore Turkish democracy to Ataturk's model.

Now Erdogan has arrested thousands of soldiers, civil servants and judges. Is comparison with the early thirties Hitler that far off the mark?

We can argue at least turkey has a democratically elected head of state
Something which is not replicated sadly in the rest of the world

I do agree erdogan is a control freak but the coup proves why ironically enough

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I note that the Turkish military has intervened several times to restore Turkish democracy to Ataturk's model.

Now Erdogan has arrested thousands of soldiers, civil servants and judges. Is comparison with the early thirties Hitler that far off the mark?

Either you believe in democracy or you don't. Erdogan is answerable to Turks first and foremost, that is his role. In the world sphere he might not last if he rubs up world powers the wrong way, but that is another issue.Here we are talking about him as Turkish PM only, and his right to serve the term as the chosen leader of the Turkish people.

 

[dayvancowboy]

I note that the Turkish military has intervened several times to restore Turkish democracy to Ataturk's model.

Now Erdogan has arrested thousands of soldiers, civil servants and judges. Is comparison with the early thirties Hitler that far off the mark?

You do realize that the Turkish military had no problem supporting Islamist movements in the 80s as a counterpoint to secular leftist movements that were the biggest threat at that time?

 

[Convict]

You take responsible for everything that has occurred prior to 1940s as you are from that generation. Jokes, well just saying that England continue to lose its "Englishness" down the road. Religion will die out within the next half a century. People will follow it as more of a tradition than someone dictating from the skies.

By the same logic we are all from Africa anyway.

I can agree with that.

Not sure England will lose it's Englishness just that Englishness in 2100 will be different to 2000 as it currently different to 1900

 

[Convict]

Either you believe in democracy or you don't. Erdogan is answerable to Turks first and foremost, that is his role. In the world sphere he might not last if he rubs up world powers the wrong way, but that is another issue.Here we are talking about him as Turkish PM only, and his right to serve the term as the chosen leader of the Turkish people.

In any case once people went out on the streets it certainly is not the rule of the Turkish military to gun down it's own civilians.

Erdogan, like Putin is not a liberal western democrat.
But both clearly have the support of their native populations.

As with let's say Brexit sometimes a democracy needs to reflect the people

 

[Junaids]

I note that the Turkish military has intervened several times to restore Turkish democracy to Ataturk's model.

Now Erdogan has arrested thousands of soldiers, civil servants and judges. Is comparison with the early thirties Hitler that far off the mark?

This was obviously not a real coup from the outset.

This was Erdogan setting fire to the Reichstag. A bogus coup - most of the conscripted soldiers were told that they were on training manouevres - in order to create a pretext to smash the judiciary and the army.

 

[Convict]

This was obviously not a real coup from the outset.

This was Erdogan setting fire to the Reichstag. A bogus coup - most of the conscripted soldiers were told that they were on training manouevres - in order to create a pretext to smash the judiciary and the army.

I think you'll find that in most coups the conscripted soldiers are told that they're doing normal exercises.

 

[Robert]

You take responsible for everything that has occurred prior to 1940s as you are from that generation.

Prior to 1940s? Am I immortal?

 

[Slog]

Dunno how I feel about this. Had visions of another Ataturk emerging to install truer democracy. Now the authoritarian Erdogan's position will be strengthened.

what is truer democracy?

one where the ruler is compliant to western interests?

 

[Slog]

I note that the Turkish military has intervened several times to restore Turkish democracy to Ataturk's model.

Now Erdogan has arrested thousands of soldiers, civil servants and judges. Is comparison with the early thirties Hitler that far off the mark?

so somehow Turkish military's interventions are being praised today after decades of it being demonized

 

[Slog]

Everytime a civilian govt moves away from Kemal Ataturks idea of Turkey somehow the Army interferes.

this is the problem with many armies in general that they think they are the safeguard of the nation's direction and identity and they have been ordained to set the direction and be the savior

same happens in many south american countries as well

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

To maintain democratic order they attempted coup?How stupid is the Army there?

That's the standards western strategy for the Middle East, a painfully short term one

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

what is truer democracy?

one where the ruler is compliant to western interests?

Naturally

That's why pincochet, Batista, the shah, Mubarak and so many more were considered great guys


Nobody is perfect but the hypocrisy displayed by some here in this thread and in wider forgein policy is cringe worthy

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Why do you pretend to be a liberal when you are just another hypocrite?

Well put

Most Islamists have also read Lenin and are much more socialist than these wannabe liberals

 

[dayvancowboy]

what is truer democracy?

one where the ruler is compliant to western interests?

I bet Robert has a soft spot for Augusto Pinochet, Ngo Dinh Diem, Suharto, Gen. Zia ul Haq, Fulgencio Batista, and Alfred Stroessner now.

 

[JaDed]

Instead of a coup ,people should had protested and written against Erdogan which in long term would had a more powerful impact than doing a coup,everyone wants democracy but have no patience to achieve the desirable.

 

[enkidu_]

This was obviously not a real coup from the outset.

This was Erdogan setting fire to the Reichstag. A bogus coup - most of the conscripted soldiers were told that they were on training manouevres - in order to create a pretext to smash the judiciary and the army.

For once, the Western media is on the same tune, which is ironic for all their "anti conspirational" tropisms. Then you also agree that 9/11 was just for the US to facilitate its imperialism in the MENA region.

 

[Convict]

Well put

Most Islamists have also read Lenin and are much more socialist than these wannabe liberals

Lenin is like the complete opposite of a liberal

 

[Robert]

what is truer democracy?

Free and fair elections, one person one vote, no taxation without representation, upholding human rights, free press, free speech, freedom of religion, freedom from state persecution, effective anti-corruption systems, trial by jury, habeus corpus, non-interference by the state in the day-to-day functioning of the judiciary.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Lenin is like the complete opposite of a liberal

Most people that call themselves liberal would much prefer Amsterdam or disneyworld to a Che ran Havana or even chavez's and mujica' South America

 

[enkidu_]

Free and fair elections, one person one vote, no taxation without representation, upholding human rights, free press, free speech, freedom of religion, freedom from state persecution, effective anti-corruption systems, trial by jury, habeus corpus, non-interference by the state in the day-to-day functioning of the judiciary.

Democracy is consented oligarchy. There are well known intellectuals who wrote about the "élite theory", and how the rulers are from the same socio-economical "breed", but "democracy" ("human rights", etc) at least is a good cosmetic slogan to have a moral high-ground in order to justify travelling thousands of kms just to kill foreign populations on their home soil and steal their resources (not consented in this case).

 

[MenInG]

Anniversary today - more repurscussions continue in Turkey from that event.

 

[Adil_94]

erdogan is tilting towards Putin and China away from the West after he's realised Turkey will never get E.U Membership.

He's Turkeys most charismatic President since Ataturk and just like Ataturk shaped the Turkey of the 20th century. He will shape Turkey of the 21st century. He could be in power till 2029 under the new constitutional changes. which would mean almost 3 decades in power.

Clearly not a fan of dissent and criticism. Family is involved in a lot of shady deals and corruption Noora style.

He has purged tens of thousands of civil servants teachers human rights activists rotting in Turkish jails.

Seems like Turkey is entering a different type of authoritaranism.
But Erdogan does have a lot of support in Turkey. He is a marmite figure either u love him or hate him. Have Turkish friends who are both for and against him. The country is very polarised atm.

this whole saviour of the ummah thing is just propaganda from his supporters mainly from the West.

He will do things what he feels is Turkeys national interest over any pan islamic solidarity. He is more supportive of the Palestinians rights for sure but he also has restored ties with Israel after a few years of no diplomacy. He also sent planes to help Israel during its wildfire epidemic recently. So he is a very clever and calculating politician.

 

[s28]

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