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Unlike PSL, IPL isn't producing players for the national team - Why?

I think people here are overreacting.

Better thread would've been "unlike PSL,why IPL hasn't produced any/many exciting talent in last 2 years?"(since PSL also started in 2016).

Anyway,Ipl is very important for the future of Indian cricket Team.
 
rhony said:
To question the Op's answer, IPL facilitated the come backs of quite a few players. Raina, Ashwin, Jadeja, Rohit, Dhawan can thank IPL. Rohit was persisted with in the middle overs and even moved to opening slot just so that he can be in the team. This was after his exploits with Deccan Chargers. Bumrah and Pandya haven't done much in first class and are products of IPL.

However, players are just a small part of the impact of IPL. It's the attitude of the players and the way Indian team went to the next level because of IPL. Players aren't scared to face great bowlers or batsman in other countries anymore. Indian players have found ways to win from difficult situations because of the IPL experience. No Indian player is awe struck anymore.
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This has been the case since Ganguly ( natwest final, kolkata test 01 etc.) It's got nothing to do with IPL. Bumrah is good but Pandya is rubbish. 1 fifty in a tour does not a good player make.
 
Indian's are overhyping their own domestic structure.... Anyone remember how Gambhir was before IPL. His whole game plan was "nudge it off-side and give the strike to Sehwag". IPL is what transformed him into an attacking batsman.


Same with Dinesh Karttick - without IPL he wouldn't have played the innings that he did yesterday.



Indians disregarding IPL to counter PSL praise
 
Adijazz1706 said:
This has been the case since Ganguly ( natwest final, kolkata test 01 etc.) It's got nothing to do with IPL. Bumrah is good but Pandya is rubbish. 1 fifty in a tour does not a good player make.
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He's played several knocks of 40+ at 100+ SR to finish ODI chases. Against teams like NZ and Australia. Its not just "1 fifty".
 
Madplayer said:
Sharjeel, shadab, Faheem, Rumman, Hasan ali would have made it easily. Maybe even Fakhar but i think you will go with Sharjeel.

Dont say no, its pointless. You know current Indian team needs such players. Quality fast bowlers, all rounders ( a leggie and a pace bowling one), a belligerent left handed opener (maybe a second choice one but required nevertheless)
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The reason you are putting players like Sharjeel and Fakhar ahead of Rahul is because latter hasn't got many chances to cement his place at the top of the order because of presence of stable opening partnership already in the team. If he was playing for a team with weaker batting, he would already be an established batsman and you wouldn't choose Fakhar or Sharjeel ahead of him or conversely Sharjeel or fakhar wouldn't get the chance to showcase their talent at international level if they were playing for India.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Really?
Dhawan, rohit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sharjeel(so sharjeel would only have been a bench warmer, justblike kl rahul)
Pandya has not perforemed consistently but he already has some really good innings including a man of the series vs aus, faheem has potential but he hasn't proved anything yet, so pandya is atm better.
Hassan can easily be the lead bowler, no doubt about that.
Kuldeep, chahal have performed better than shadab, and we also have some untested talents like Washington and krunal.
Rumman not at all.
Fakhar is brilliant but no batting lineup in the world can replace our top 3.
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I would take any of Warner or Fakhar over Rohit who for me is massively overrated.

Rohit has been around for a while but hasn't done anything of note in ICC ODI tournaments (other than a couple of innings v Bangladesh) because he is a choker unlike Fakhar. He's a beast on small grounds with perfect batting conditions but his lazy attitude away from home (particularly outside Asia) isn't going to win India matches against decent bowling attacks as we saw last year in the CT final and 2015 WC semi. His strike rate in the powerplay epitomises this.

Fakhar Zaman was a one man army for Pakistan during the CT and played clutch knocks in every game. For me the best 3 openers in ODIs are him, Warner and Dhawan. The latter 2 I would say are the best.
 
backfootpunch said:
I would take any of Warner or Fakhar over Rohit who for me is massively overrated.

Rohit has been around for a while but hasn't done anything of note in ICC ODI tournaments (other than a couple of innings v Bangladesh) because he is a choker unlike Fakhar. He's a beast on small grounds with perfect batting conditions but his lazy attitude away from home (particularly outside Asia) isn't going to win India matches against decent bowling attacks as we saw last year in the CT final and 2015 WC semi. His strike rate in the powerplay epitomises this.

Fakhar Zaman was a one man army for Pakistan during the CT and played clutch knocks in every game. For me the best 3 openers in ODIs are him, Warner and Dhawan. The latter 2 I would say are the best.
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I can understand Warner over Rohit but Fakhar over rohit seriously? Rohit played a key role in 2013 CT too.
 
Syed1 said:
Indian's are overhyping their own domestic structure.... Anyone remember how Gambhir was before IPL. His whole game plan was "nudge it off-side and give the strike to Sehwag". IPL is what transformed him into an attacking batsman.


Same with Dinesh Karttick - without IPL he wouldn't have played the innings that he did yesterday.



Indians disregarding IPL to counter PSL praise
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Why will Indians disregard their own crown jewel IPL to counter newbie PSL praise ... ? Not convincing for me atleast !
 
IndianFan2018 said:
Why will Indians disregard their own crown jewel IPL to counter newbie PSL praise ... ? Not convincing for me atleast !
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Read the thread... all of them are saying that these new players are products of Indian domestic and not IPL. The reality is IPL is what shaped them into world beaters. India always had the domestic structure but your team really surged forward after the IPL.


Also, the new players in the PSL are not some kids who were roaming the streets and asked to come participate - they are also product of Pakistan domestic, and just like IPL had a major positive impact on Indian LOI sides, the PSL is already making a huge impact on Pakistan LOI side.
 
Can somebody start a thread comparing the ads shown between overs in IPL and PSL matches? I believe that is the only thing left
 
WengerOut said:
Can somebody start a thread comparing the ads shown between overs in IPL and PSL matches? I believe that is the only thing left
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Funnily enough most of these comparison threads are being started by Indians.
 
Syed1 said:
Read the thread... all of them are saying that these new players are products of Indian domestic and not IPL. The reality is IPL is what shaped them into world beaters. India always had the domestic structure but your team really surged forward after the IPL.


Also, the new players in the PSL are not some kids who were roaming the streets and asked to come participate - they are also product of Pakistan domestic, and just like IPL had a major positive impact on Indian LOI sides, the PSL is already making a huge impact on Pakistan LOI side.
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All players come from domestic system first ..IPL and PSL will be launching platform for talented players from respective country.

From enormous IPL riches BCCI improve overall domestic system/facilities across India (form where players are produced before IPL).

So IPL and domestic system of India complement each other in my view.
 
Whenever someone ask IPL fans about the players who made it into the Indian team through IPL only two names come up i.e Ashwin and Jadeja. As if IPL stopped after finding these two diamonds who are not even part of the team currently but guys like Dhoni, Karthik, Raina are still playing for India.

Someone ask these fans from where did IPL team find Kohli? From an under 19 wc winning team or streets of delhi?

You guys think Kohli wouldn't have made it into the indian team if there was no IPL lol? May be you new IPL fans don't even know from where did Yuvi, Irfan, Kaif, Dhawan, Uthappa got recognition. Tell me names who were found by Pyjama League franchises and then made their way into Indian team.
 
PSL stars who would make Indian team:
Hasan (obviously)
Fakhar (backup opener)
Shadab (spinning all rounder)
Talat (middle order batsman, India is clearly suffering in this department)
Shinwari ($1 billion superstar Unadkat cannot wipe his shoes)
 
babajee said:
PSL stars who would make Indian team:
Hasan (obviously)
Fakhar (backup opener)
Shadab (spinning all rounder)
Talat (middle order batsman, India is clearly suffering in this department)
Shinwari ($1 billion superstar Unadkat cannot wipe his shoes)
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Unadkat was a member of Nidahas Trophy winning team. Beat that. :inti
 
CRIC_FANtastic said:
Do you mean to say in ODI and T20I. Because in Tests, both Ashwin and Jadeja are miles ahead of Shadab. In ODI also, India will only select a fast bowling all round. That is why, only Hasan Ali has any chance of getting picked into Indian Team.
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Yes in LOI

shadab is untested so far in the longer version
 
babajee said:
PSL stars who would make Indian team:
Hasan (obviously)
Fakhar (backup opener)
Shadab (spinning all rounder)
Talat (middle order batsman, India is clearly suffering in this department)
Shinwari ($1 billion superstar Unadkat cannot wipe his shoes)
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I rate Babar ahead of Rahane.

Both are fragile batsmen though
 
babajee said:
PSL stars who would make Indian team:
Hasan (obviously)
Fakhar (backup opener)
Shadab (spinning all rounder)
Talat (middle order batsman, India is clearly suffering in this department)
Shinwari ($1 billion superstar Unadkat cannot wipe his shoes)
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Fakhar as backup Opener? No thanks! We have KL Rahul already as a backup. Rahul is a better batsman that Fakhar!
Shinwari ? Who's he? never heard of him. But Unadkat is never a part of Indian A side and he's bought for the huge chunk of money by an IPL franchise cause they were blinded by his once in a blue moon performance against SL. Our National side would never let him play in ODIs or Tests ever again. He's no more in the picture.
Shadab- Nah! We already have better options in W.Sundar!
Talat - Has he played international cricket? sorry mate! Let him prove himself in the international cricket before hyping him too much. I heard good things about him and I'm sure he will be great prospect, but he has to prove against international sides.
Hasan - a definite yes! He would be fantastic addition and would turn into a lethal pace attack.
 
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Bleedgreen4ever said:
I rate Babar ahead of Rahane.

Both are fragile batsmen though
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Only good inning Rahane played in ODIs was against South Africa in World Cup 2015. He batted lile AB D that day. He has underachieved in LOIs and should now stick to test cricket only. Or may be take up wicket keeping like Rahul Dravid.
 
Tyler Durden said:
Fakhar as backup Opener? No thanks! We have KL Rahul already as a backup. Rahul is a better batsman that Fakhar!
Shinwari ? Who's he? never heard of him. But Unadkat is never a part of Indian A side and he's bought for the huge chunk of money by an IPL franchise cause they were blinded by his once in a blue moon performance against SL. Our National side would never let him play in ODIs or Tests ever again. He's no more in the picture.
Shadab- Nah! We already have better options in W.Sundar!
Talat - Has he played international cricket? sorry mate! Let him prove himself in the international cricket before hyping him too much. I heard good things about him and I'm sure he will be great prospect, but he has to prove against international sides.
Hasan - a definite yes! He would be fantastic addition and would turn into a lethal pace attack.
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Oh so you say “let him prove himself in the international cricket” about Talat but Sundar is better than Shadab after performing in a minnow trophy. Sundar is unproven.

Usman Khan Shinwari is better than any Indian bowler apart from Bumrah.

Just because KL looks good and can play some Kohli style shots doesn’t mean he’s better than Fakhar. There is more to batting.
 
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Adijazz1706 said:
This has been the case since Ganguly ( natwest final, kolkata test 01 etc.) It's got nothing to do with IPL. Bumrah is good but Pandya is rubbish. 1 fifty in a tour does not a good player make.
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Yes Ganguly brought the fearlessness but IPL is the reason why you see Indians chase big runs. They can play well under pressure. 1 fifty is what you look at as an outsider. Look at this bowling figures in ODIs in SA. Look at his run outs and fielding. He brings balance to the side and the team has confidence in him to play under pressure. He is the best fielder in the team, can score quick runs and can bowl a few decent overs. He has a knack of picking wickets and picked AB in 2 games. He is still very young and will improve over time.
 
DRsohail said:
Where are those 140 kph bowlers.Some of indian posters were saying that indian domestic team have 2 bowlers each who clocks 140kph.
If true these selctors should be hanged.
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After looking at indian selectors criteria to select bowlers those 140k bowlers are training hard to bowl slower than guys like Shankar and Unadkat.
 
babajee said:
Oh so you say “let him prove himself in the international cricket” about Talat but Sundar is better than Shadab after performing in a minnow trophy. Sundar is unproven.

Usman Khan Shinwari is better than any Indian bowler apart from Bumrah.

Just because KL looks good and can play some Kohli style shots doesn’t mean he’s better than Fakhar. There is more to batting.
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Dude! KL Rahul is a better opening bastmen than Fakhar! Just because Fakhar scored a century in the CT final, doesn't automatically make him a greatest opener ever! Is he atleast a part of your playing Test eleven? KL rahul plays in all the three formats of the game and proved in overseas conditions too. Fakhar's sample size is very small to call him the better opener! Let him play few more games in all formats, then you can argue !

Yes! Sundar played against the same minnow Lanka that defeated your full test team in your own backyard and that definitely qualifies as an international outing! And Sundar is the man of the series award winner in an international tri-series outing! Talat is a nobody as of now when it comes to international arena and no matter how high you talk about him, it doesn't matter to neutral fans unless he proves himself against international sides!
 
rhony said:
Yes Ganguly brought the fearlessness but IPL is the reason why you see Indians chase big runs. They can play well under pressure. 1 fifty is what you look at as an outsider. Look at this bowling figures in ODIs in SA. Look at his run outs and fielding. He brings balance to the side and the team has confidence in him to play under pressure. He is the best fielder in the team, can score quick runs and can bowl a few decent overs. He has a knack of picking wickets and picked AB in 2 games. He is still very young and will improve over time.
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Rahul Dravid's team before IPL had a record of winning 16 consecutive matches chasing the target.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Rahul Dravid's team before IPL had a record of winning 16 consecutive matches chasing the target.
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Could be. India was never considered a good chasing team. It was always bat first at the toss. Now they don't care. They even prefer chasing. IPL's contribution is getting these players battle heardened. They will lose a few like CT final but they are winning consistently.
 
rhony said:
Could be. India was never considered a good chasing team. It was always bat first at the toss. Now they don't care. They even prefer chasing. IPL's contribution is getting these players battle heardened. They will lose a few like CT final but they are winning consistently.
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Indian team got the confidence to chase down targets after Natwest Trophy final in 2002.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
I can understand Warner over Rohit but Fakhar over rohit seriously? Rohit played a key role in 2013 CT too.
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Yes an average of 35-36 @SR of 76 fantastic! - Misbah esque numbers those are.

He's played in 3 ICC ODI events and failed to make an impact in every single one (except against Bangladesh bowling) whereas Fakhar has played 4 clutch knocks from the same number of matches in last year's CT - he was a one man army.

Yes he has technical issues and doesn't have the same talent as Rohit, but however gifted you are you need other attributes like mental, work ethic, playing for the best interests in the team which is where Rohit falls short. India may be successful in next year's WC but you can bank on this guy failing.
 
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babajee said:
Oh so you say “let him prove himself in the international cricket” about Talat but Sundar is better than Shadab after performing in a minnow trophy. Sundar is unproven.

Usman Khan Shinwari is better than any Indian bowler apart from Bumrah.

Just because KL looks good and can play some Kohli style shots doesn’t mean he’s better than Fakhar. There is more to batting.
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Shinwari
Hight of Overhyping someone
I Give Up
 
Tyler Durden said:
Dude! KL Rahul is a better opening bastmen than Fakhar! Just because Fakhar scored a century in the CT final, doesn't automatically make him a greatest opener ever! Is he atleast a part of your playing Test eleven? KL rahul plays in all the three formats of the game and proved in overseas conditions too. Fakhar's sample size is very small to call him the better opener! Let him play few more games in all formats, then you can argue !

Yes! Sundar played against the same minnow Lanka that defeated your full test team in your own backyard and that definitely qualifies as an international outing! And Sundar is the man of the series award winner in an international tri-series outing! Talat is a nobody as of now when it comes to international arena and no matter how high you talk about him, it doesn't matter to neutral fans unless he proves himself against international sides!
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Ok tell me how KL Rahul is a better one day batsman than Fakhar... all the guy has done is score a 100 against Zimbabwe :))
 
Some pakistani are so delusional. Fakhar is lucky in every innings. Lol at mentally strong. And who the hell is shinwari.....
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Rahul Dravid's team before IPL had a record of winning 16 consecutive matches chasing the target.
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Was that because of super sub rule? I remember us winning a lot of matches when the super sub rule was there.. That rule was perfect for us as it removed our weakness of not having any decent all rounder.. Pity it got scrapped.
 
babajee said:
He is a better bowler than BK, Pandya, Thakur, Unadkat, Siraj etc etc.
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Ashok Dinda is better than Wasim, Waqar, IK etc etc.

Anyone can make sweeeping statements like these, let shinwari dude play first and if he is actually as good as you claim him to be then good for you else no point making such statement about any unknown bowler..
 
big_gamer007 said:
Ashok Dinda is better than Wasim, Waqar, IK etc etc.

Anyone can make sweeeping statements like these, let shinwari dude play first and if he is actually as good as you claim him to be then good for you else no point making such statement about any unknown bowler..
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He’s played.

Took a 5fer in his second game lol and they weren’t cheap wickets.
 
babajee said:
Not just one innings... an entire tournament.
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13 ODIs
Look at the Sample Size sir
No question he is great prospect but atleast let him settled at International level
One good inning one good tournament watever you people Overhyping him so much and comparing him with a guy who is beast in odi...3 double centuries in ODI
Well i can just imagine the mayhem if tomorrow any Pakistani batsman able hit a 200 in ODI...
 
babajee said:
He’s played.

Took a 5fer in his second game lol and they weren’t cheap wickets.
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He’s played 2 games.. Let him play 30+ games before passing such comments.. I shouldn’t really indulge with arguments seeing how you are just trolling but just wanted to put that there
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Indian team got the confidence to chase down targets after Natwest Trophy final in 2002.
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Like I said, that was a one off and was considered a shocker. Indian team now chasing 300 plus scores in not a shocker anymore.
 
Some really outlandish opinions on here.

Fakhar isn't better than Rohit or Dhawan in ODI's. Yet. But anyone who's claiming that he isn't better than Rahul needs to get their heads checked. He's achieved far more in the ODI arena that Rahul has. And more than Rohit probably will, when it comes to a world-tournament final, considering how he becomes practically useless in those games. Dhawan I rate cause he's clutch.

None of the Indian fast bowlers in this tournament were impressive. Yes Thakur won a MOM, but he got smacked around in the other games and seems to have made the knuckle ball his stock delivery. Will go as far as saying that he didn't even know how to use the new ball and only seemed decent bowling 100 kmph cutters/knuckle balls in the death. Don't see how that skill-set will succeed in anything but T20's. Unadkat was horrible, Shankar is just a part-timer and Siraj is just tripe. Like absolute stink-the-place up kind of tripe. Any observer could have noticed that.

The thing is none of them look like proper fast bowlers which is a nebulous term but refers to their wicket-taking abilities in tests. Where you can't rely on the batsman trying to hit every ball in the last few overs and you sneaking some miscue wickets in. In that sense, I rate those young Indian quicks in the U19 more cause they have those basics in place. That's probably why Shinwari gets rated so highly here. The raw material is there, and isn't a fast spinner masquerading as a quick bowler.
 
Rishta Aunty said:
Fakhar isn't better than Rohit or Dhawan in ODI's. Yet. But anyone who's claiming that he isn't better than Rahul needs to get their heads checked. He's achieved far more in the ODI arena that Rahul has.
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Aunty jee there is a certain “expert” here who will tell you that there are batsmen in every nook and cranny of India better than Fakhar. Every Indian batsman > Every Pakistani batsman.
 
Ravindra jadeja >>>>>>>>>waqar younis
Absolutely smokes him in knockout games, ct 2013.
Yaar ek hadd hoti hai, one good tournament and the player becomes better than rohit who has hit 3 doubles avgs 45.
 
Rishta Aunty said:
Some really outlandish opinions on here.

Fakhar isn't better than Rohit or Dhawan in ODI's. Yet. But anyone who's claiming that he isn't better than Rahul needs to get their heads checked. He's achieved far more in the ODI arena that Rahul has. And more than Rohit probably will, when it comes to a world-tournament final, considering how he becomes practically useless in those games. Dhawan I rate cause he's clutch.

None of the Indian fast bowlers in this tournament were impressive. Yes Thakur won a MOM, but he got smacked around in the other games and seems to have made the knuckle ball his stock delivery. Will go as far as saying that he didn't even know how to use the new ball and only seemed decent bowling 100 kmph cutters/knuckle balls in the death. Don't see how that skill-set will succeed in anything but T20's. Unadkat was horrible, Shankar is just a part-timer and Siraj is just tripe. Like absolute stink-the-place up kind of tripe. Any observer could have noticed that.

The thing is none of them look like proper fast bowlers which is a nebulous term but refers to their wicket-taking abilities in tests. Where you can't rely on the batsman trying to hit every ball in the last few overs and you sneaking some miscue wickets in. In that sense, I rate those young Indian quicks in the U19 more cause they have those basics in place. That's probably why Shinwari gets rated so highly here. The raw material is there, and isn't a fast spinner masquerading as a quick bowler.
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Nobody is boasting about India's fast bowlers Unadkats or Thakurs here! Why such over exaggrated reaction for nothing? It's our dumb selectors to blame! We Indians trolled these guys ourselves and we don't want to see these trundlers anywhere near the national side anymore. And we do know that our Fast bowlers Bhuvi and Bumrah have their own limitations and no complaints about it. We are happy with our current stock of Fast bowlers and hopefully this year's IPL will unleash atleast one young pace bolwer as a backup to Bhuvi or Bumrah! Take a chill-pill!
 
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Tyler Durden said:
Nobody is boasting about India's fast bowlers Unadkats or Thakurs here! Why such over exaggrated reaction for nothing? It's our dumb selectors to blame! We Indians trolled these guys ourselves and we don't want to see these trundlers anywhere near the national side anymore. And we do know that our Fast bowlers Bhuvi and Bumrah have their own limitations and no complaints about it. We are happy with our current stock of Fast bowlers and hopefully this year's IPL will unleash atleast one young pace bolwer as a backup to Bhuvi or Bumrah! Take a chill-pill!
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Hey man I'm chill! It's just a serious cricketing point, no animosity. If the fast bowling talent is there like so many Indian PP'rs claim, and much better than what the PSL is putting forward, this was a terrible advertisement for it. That's all that I'm saying. It's good to be realistic about your options; that always takes you ahead irrespective of everything else going on.
 
babajee said:
Aunty jee there is a certain “expert” here who will tell you that there are batsmen in every nook and cranny of India better than Fakhar. Every Indian batsman > Every Pakistani batsman.
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Fair Baba jee. I'm new here; I'll learn who the real experts are as time goes on.

In general my belief is that the average Indian batting product is usually better than the average Pakistani product. They just have tighter techniques, better balance at the crease, and just 'look the part'. However, this isn't a hard and fast rule. For example, I can totally see Fakhar going on to have a much better ODI career than many other Indian newbies out there. And that's despite ready technical limitations that are visible to any seasoned cricket watcher.

Equally, the average Pakistani pacer just has that natural oomph that the average Indian pacer doesn't. It's the difference between landing properly in terms of body shape at the popping crease; something that truly sets up the best from the rest.

It's good to be unbiased and argue cricket. That's what we're here for afterall :)
 
Rishta Aunty said:
Hey man I'm chill! It's just a serious cricketing point, no animosity. If the fast bowling talent is there like so many Indian PP'rs claim, and much better than what the PSL is putting forward, this was a terrible advertisement for it. That's all that I'm saying. It's good to be realistic about your options; that always takes you ahead irrespective of everything else going on.
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You have a point Aunty ji. Not even a single phaast bowler was selected for this tri series. It seems our love for trundlers won't end.
 
Rishta Aunty said:
Fair Baba jee. I'm new here; I'll learn who the real experts are as time goes on.

In general my belief is that the average Indian batting product is usually better than the average Pakistani product. They just have tighter techniques, better balance at the crease, and just 'look the part'. However, this isn't a hard and fast rule. For example, I can totally see Fakhar going on to have a much better ODI career than many other Indian newbies out there. And that's despite ready technical limitations that are visible to any seasoned cricket watcher.

Equally, the average Pakistani pacer just has that natural oomph that the average Indian pacer doesn't. It's the difference between landing properly in terms of body shape at the popping crease; something that truly sets up the best from the rest.

It's good to be unbiased and argue cricket. That's what we're here for afterall :)
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You use the same logic when u say a trundler who have played 2 odis better than all indian pacers
 
Rishta Aunty said:
Hey man I'm chill! It's just a serious cricketing point, no animosity. If the fast bowling talent is there like so many Indian PP'rs claim, and much better than what the PSL is putting forward, this was a terrible advertisement for it. That's all that I'm saying. It's good to be realistic about your options; that always takes you ahead irrespective of everything else going on.
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Honestly speaking, there aren't many options available. A couple of guys from U-19 team look promising, and there are a few like Sidharth Kaul, Thampi! But the one guy I'm eagerly waiting to see on Indian colors is Khaleel. Hope he performs well in this IPL!
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Ravindra jadeja >>>>>>>>>waqar younis
Absolutely smokes him in knockout games, ct 2013.
Yaar ek hadd hoti hai, one good tournament and the player becomes better than rohit who has hit 3 doubles avgs 45.
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I clearly said, “big match performance”

Jadeja got the phainty of a lifetime in CT 2017 :)
 
babajee said:
Aunty jee there is a certain “expert” here who will tell you that there are batsmen in every nook and cranny of India better than Fakhar. Every Indian batsman > Every Pakistani batsman.
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Mate! I didn't mean every Indian bat is better than Fakhar! The discussion was specifically about KL vs Fakhar! If you think otherwise, try to have a healthy argument. Calling 'experts' and educating other posters with your sarcasm only shows your low grade mentality ! I rest my case here!
 
Tyler Durden said:
Mate! I didn't mean every Indian bat is better than Fakhar! The discussion was specifically about KL vs Fakhar! If you think you otherwise, try to have a healthy argument? Calling experts and educating other posters with your sarcasm only shows your low grade mentality ! I rest my case here!
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Chill out. You aren’t the “expert” I am referring to :ashwin

Relax man. Relax.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
You have a point Aunty ji. Not even a single phaast bowler was selected for this tri series. It seems our love for trundlers won't end.
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Any names that you have in mind from what you have seen?

CricCrazyNick said:
You use the same logic when u say a trundler who have played 2 odis better than all indian pacers
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Where did I say that? Don't misquote me bud. I rate Bhuvneshwar (in certain conditions more so than others), Bumrah and Shami. I even don't think Yadav is that bad, though he's got serious control issues with his delivery stride. That's simply cause they've all got the basics of bowling correct. Rather let me put it this way: I can see them getting wickets in a test match on any reasonably helpful deck. They bowl a good heavy ball, can generate actual swing (though Bumrah is more of a hit-the-deck seamer), and bowl good pace.

That's the problem I have with the Indian bowlers we saw this tournament. All of them have the slower delivery as their stock ball. Most of the bowling plans were completely defensive; there's no way that you couldn't have seen that however biased a fan you may be.

Tyler Durden said:
Honestly speaking, there aren't many options available. A couple of guys from U-19 team look promising, and there are a few like Sidharth Kaul, Thampi! But the one guy I'm eagerly waiting to see on Indian colors is Khaleel. Hope he performs well in this IPL!
Click to expand...

Let's see. While people discount IPL/PSL performance, I feel that's generally more true for batsman than bowlers. You can usually make out bowlers that have their fundamentals straight.
 
Rishta Aunty said:
Some really outlandish opinions on here.

Fakhar isn't better than Rohit or Dhawan in ODI's. Yet. But anyone who's claiming that he isn't better than Rahul needs to get their heads checked. He's achieved far more in the ODI arena that Rahul has. And more than Rohit probably will, when it comes to a world-tournament final, considering how he becomes practically useless in those games. Dhawan I rate cause he's clutch.

None of the Indian fast bowlers in this tournament were impressive. Yes Thakur won a MOM, but he got smacked around in the other games and seems to have made the knuckle ball his stock delivery. Will go as far as saying that he didn't even know how to use the new ball and only seemed decent bowling 100 kmph cutters/knuckle balls in the death. Don't see how that skill-set will succeed in anything but T20's. Unadkat was horrible, Shankar is just a part-timer and Siraj is just tripe. Like absolute stink-the-place up kind of tripe. Any observer could have noticed that.

The thing is none of them look like proper fast bowlers which is a nebulous term but refers to their wicket-taking abilities in tests. Where you can't rely on the batsman trying to hit every ball in the last few overs and you sneaking some miscue wickets in. In that sense, I rate those young Indian quicks in the U19 more cause they have those basics in place. That's probably why Shinwari gets rated so highly here. The raw material is there, and isn't a fast spinner masquerading as a quick bowler.
Click to expand...

Rohit is overrated and a liability when the stakes are high i.e. ICC tournaments, can't just write off someone because one has a small sample size. This isn't a question of who's achieved more and has more hundreds, it's about who would you pick out of these 2 today for next year's WC. Are you honestly going to say that you trust Rohit to deliver in a big game (like a semi or a final against a good bowling attack) more than Fakhar who knows how it's done?

Rohit without his double hundreds (in perfect batting conditions on small grounds) wouldn't be rated half of what he's made out to be. The double hundreds at home is the only feat he has actually done that has given this exaggerated false reputation.

His SR under 100 runs is woeful, in all the hundreds he's scored all his runs up to the ton mark have been made at a SR of just 80 and he is to blame for India's run rate problem from overs 1 - 10.

His performances since the CT 2013 have been abysmal (except Bangladesh), his performances were slated by Indian fans after the WC 2015 semi and 2017 CT final - mark my words this will happen again and this love-hate relationship the supporters have with him will continue. He doesn't have the mentality or the nerves of steel to deliver on the big stage when the stakes are high. The likes of Kohli and Dhawan rise to the occasion but he crumbles...

Some will point to his averages and say he had an >50 average from last year's CT but what they need to be reminded is that this figure is inflated from cheap runs against a poor Bangladesh bowling attack and a selfish and lazy knock with no rhythm to his batting in the group game against Pakistan. For nearly all of the innings his SR was hovering around 60 and ended with around 75-77.
It just shows when he's out of his comfort zone; whether it be batting outside Asia, ICC tournaments, lateral movement and quality pace bowling he's not good enough. Kohli and Yuvi were able to mask his Shehzad-esque innings.

From an Indian fans perspective who actually rate Rohit highly (and more than Fakhar) will probably think I just have have my green tinted specs on but I've also called out and exposed particular pper for his well known hate of Kohli.
 
Last edited:
Sidilicious said:
:)) fair comeback

But you know what I mean. 1 great performance in a final does not make fakar > Rohit
Click to expand...

It’s not just the final - it’s the entire tournament which shows his mental toughness.

Yes at this moment he can’t be rated as better but imo if Fakhar keeps singlehandedly carrying Pakistan’s batting like he has been then he will definitely be rated higher.
 
CricCrazyNick said:
If Rohit Sharma is Pakistani you would have rated him ahead of Tendulker
I bet you on ths
Click to expand...

I don't think he would whether he be a biased or not because anyone with basic critical thinking skills and analysis can see Rohit is a liability.

We've got Indian PPers claiming Dhawan and Rohit are the best openers in ODIs. Dhawan yes he's fantastic but at the other end he has a liability against quality pace attacks, ICC tournaments and big matches especially, so it can't be the best.
 
backfootpunch said:
I don't think he would whether he be a biased or not because anyone with basic critical thinking skills and analysis can see Rohit is a liability.

We've got Indian PPers claiming Dhawan and Rohit are the best openers in ODIs. Dhawan yes he's fantastic but at the other end he has a liability against quality pace attacks, ICC tournaments and big matches especially, so it can't be the best.
Click to expand...

Rohit is an upgraded version of Ahmed Shehzad.
 
backfootpunch said:
Rohit is overrated and a liability when the stakes are high i.e. ICC tournaments, can't just write off someone because one has a small sample size. This isn't a question of who's achieved more and has more hundreds, it's about who would you pick out of these 2 today for next year's WC. Are you honestly going to say that you trust Rohit to deliver in a big game (like a semi or a final against a good bowling attack) more than Fakhar who knows how it's done?

Rohit without his double hundreds (in perfect batting conditions on small grounds) wouldn't be rated half of what he's made out to be. The double hundreds at home is the only feat he has actually done that has given this exaggerated false reputation.

His SR under 100 runs is woeful, in all the hundreds he's scored all his runs up to the ton mark have been made at a SR of just 80 and he is to blame for India's run rate problem from overs 1 - 10.

His performances since the CT 2013 have been abysmal (except Bangladesh), his performances were slated by Indian fans after the WC 2015 semi and 2017 CT final - mark my words this will happen again and this love-hate relationship the supporters have with him will continue. He doesn't have the mentality or the nerves of steel to deliver on the big stage when the stakes are high. The likes of Kohli and Dhawan rise to the occasion but he crumbles...

Some will point to his averages and say he had an >50 average from last year's CT but what they need to be reminded is that this figure is inflated from cheap runs against a poor Bangladesh bowling attack and a selfish and lazy knock with no rhythm to his batting in the group game against Pakistan. For nearly all of the innings his SR was hovering around 60 and ended with around 75-77.
It just shows when he's out of his comfort zone; whether it be batting outside Asia, ICC tournaments, lateral movement and quality pace bowling he's not good enough. Kohli and Yuvi were able to mask his Shehzad-esque innings.

From an Indian fans perspective who actually rate Rohit highly (and more than Fakhar) will probably think I just have have my green tinted specs on but I've also called out and exposed particular pper for his well known hate of Kohli.
Click to expand...

All fair points that I effectively alluded to even in my comment. I rate Dhawan much more than Rohit; however, removing my green tinted specs, the average neutral will still pick him over Fakhar right now. With right now being the qualifying statement; Fakhar simply has had too short a career. With more such performances I can definitely see him getting there, but right now I'd say that would be a step too far. Give Fakhar a year and sure; he's got technical flaws but delivering on a big day is something that he has been there and done. The closest Rohit innings was against Bangladesh in the 2015 World Cup QF; which obviously says a lot about him by itself.

The thing with Rohit is I actually feel that attack matters less than how true the pitch is. He can smoke the best attack going (done a fair few times against Aus) on a good deck. And most ODI decks nowadays are pretty much that. Can you otherwise imagine a Jason Roy doing what he did against Aus?
 
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