[VIDEO] Gay and Muslim: Family wanted to 'make me better'

[MenInG]

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When Asad came out as gay in 2020, some family members discussed taking him to see an imam to make him "better".

In the months that followed, his mental health declined and he had suicidal thoughts.

This story is all too familiar to Matt, whose partner Naz took his own life in 2014 when his family rejected him after he came out.

We got Asad and Matt together on a Zoom call. They discussed their experiences and the need for better support for gay people coming out in religious families.

 

[Robert]

Oh dear. It must be hard to be born gay into a family with a strict religious code.

 

[Barragan]

You can't be gay and muslim.

You can denounce Islam, be gay and live your life as you please.

If he still wants remain gay and a Muslim, then he has to face the punishment according to Islamic laws.

 

[street cricketer]

You can't be gay and muslim.

You can denounce Islam, be gay and live your life as you please.

If he still wants remain gay and a Muslim, then he has to face the punishment according to Islamic laws.

What is the punishment according to the Islamic laws?

 

[James]

You can't be gay and muslim.

You can denounce Islam, be gay and live your life as you please.

If he still wants remain gay and a Muslim, then he has to face the punishment according to Islamic laws.

No such thing as thought crime. The mind is a private space, and it was always made that way. Surely any censure depends only on the actions taken (or not).

 

[Gilly]

What is the punishment according to the Islamic laws?

Its not Islamic laws, in Britain the law of the land overrides Islamic law and its illegal to discriminate someone due to their sexual preferences. So any muslim in Britain understands they cannot discriminate anyone due to sexual preferences.

 

[Barragan]

What is the punishment according to the Islamic laws?

Death.

No such thing as thought crime. The mind is a private space, and it was always made that way. Surely any censure depends only on the actions taken (or not).

He has clearly indulged in homosexuality activities, so it's not just thoughts.

Just denounce Islam and move on, not very hard.

Just seeking attention and nothing more.

 

[Gilly]

Death.

.

Who is going to kill him, its against Islam to kill anyone.

 

[Barragan]

What is the punishment according to the Islamic laws?

Who is going to kill him, its against Islam to kill anyone.

No one is going to kill him.

Same way death penalty is the law in some countries for murder, same in Islam.

Just leave Islam and move on with life - simple.

 

[street cricketer]

No one is going to kill him.

Same way death penalty is the law in some countries for murder, same in Islam.

Just leave Islam and move on with life - simple.

Murder involves causing bodily harm to another person though.

You or me might not prefer homosexuality. But what's the problem if two consenting adults are in a homosexual relationship as long as they're not causing any harm to others..

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What is the punishment according to the Islamic laws?

Why does that matter? He's living in Britain not Syria.

 

[James]

No one is going to kill him.

Same way death penalty is the law in some countries for murder, same in Islam.

Just leave Islam and move on with life - simple.

It's less simple here, because there is not just the religious system to take into account. There is also the culture of his home country and the laws of the society. This makes the scenario more complex.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There's some Sikh guy who's doing a health talk show on tv as well. Never watched it, but he's gay apparently. Dr Raj Singh. I think he talked about issues with his family as well.

 

[Justcrazy]

You can't be gay and muslim.

You can denounce Islam, be gay and live your life as you please.

If he still wants remain gay and a Muslim, then he has to face the punishment according to Islamic laws.

I do not agree with the statement. Being a gay is a sin in Islam. If an alcoholic person can remain a Muslim , so will a gay.

Sins does not take a person out of fold of Islam.

 

[Barragan]

What is the punishment according to the Islamic laws?

Murder involves causing bodily harm to another person though.

You or me might not prefer homosexuality. But what's the problem if two consenting adults are in a homosexual relationship as long as they're not causing any harm to others..

It is the law and the person involved knows it as well.

No need to complicate anything, just leave the religion and be happy.

 

[Barragan]

I do not agree with the statement. Being a gay is a sin in Islam. If an alcoholic person can remain a Muslim , so will a gay.

Sins does not take a person out of fold of Islam.

Some sins are worse than others.

Even alcoholic's shouldn't be shown leniency either.

If you don't refrain from the forbidden acts, then why would you call yourself a Muslim?

Just live and be happy being an atheist, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Barragan]

It's less simple here, because there is not just the religious system to take into account. There is also the culture of his home country and the laws of the society. This makes the scenario more complex.

Not too fussed about the cultural aspect.

That's not much of a problem.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

That's the same in every distinct culture. Not specific to a religion or culture

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Just denounce Islam and move on, not very hard.

It's not that easy, many of us are born into religious families but are not religious ourself.

Being a Muslim is an identity for him, When Trump banned travellers from few Muslim countries, he didn't cared if people are religious or not. Iranians living in Canada are not religious at all and drink party everything yet they couldn't enter US.

This guy was born in a Muslim family, has a Muslim name, he cannot change these facts even after denouncing Islam.

Toughest part is exclusion from friends and families, we humans are social animals. This same blackmail tactic is used by other religious groups such as Mormons, Jehovahs, Mennonites. Denouncing religion could mean never talking to parents and siblings ever again. Easier said than done.

You feel hurt and want to hurt back this Asad guy by forcing him to denounce religion and thus punishing him. This is what desi's are best at, this is what Jinnah did to his daughter. This is how honour killings happen. You feel hurt and you want to hurt them back.

 

[sweep_shot]

Islam is very clear about homosexuality. It is prohibited and is considered as a very big sin.

Not just Islam but also Christianity and Judaism prohibit it.

 

[Barragan]

It's not that easy, many of us are born into religious families but are not religious ourself.

Being a Muslim is an identity for him, When Trump banned travellers from few Muslim countries, he didn't cared if people are religious or not. Iranians living in Canada are not religious at all and drink party everything yet they couldn't enter US.

This guy was born in a Muslim family, has a Muslim name, he cannot change these facts even after denouncing Islam.

Toughest part is exclusion from friends and families, we humans are social animals. This same blackmail tactic is used by other religious groups such as Mormons, Jehovahs, Mennonites. Denouncing religion could mean never talking to parents and siblings ever again. Easier said than done.

You feel hurt and want to hurt back this Asad guy by forcing him to denounce religion and thus punishing him. This is what desi's are best at, this is what Jinnah did to his daughter. This is how honour killings happen. You feel hurt and you want to hurt them back.

It's very easy to change name.

If this is what makes him happy, then why all the drama?

Leave and be happy.

Seems like a ploy to make money and some publicity - which is clearly working.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Cannot be gay and Muslim. Simple.

 

[street cricketer]

It is the law and the person involved knows it as well.

No need to complicate anything, just leave the religion and be happy.

Well isn't leaving Islam punishable by death sentence as well in an islamic country?

A gay muslim in such a country would be caught between a rock and hard place in that case.

 

[dildilpak]

Cannot be gay and Muslim. Simple.

What about those Mullahs then who are accused of homosexual harassment of their students? Shouldnt they be subject to death sentence too?

 

[Gilly]

Islam is very clear about homosexuality. It is prohibited and is considered as a very big sin.

Not just Islam but also Christianity and Judaism prohibit it.

The catholic church has a different opinion.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states "men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies ... must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."[16] "Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided." They oppose criminal penalties against homosexuality.[17]

 

[Gilly]

Islam is very clear about homosexuality. It is prohibited and is considered as a very big sin.

Not just Islam but also Christianity and Judaism prohibit it.

Judaism is also different.

Discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation was prohibited in 1992

 

[sweep_shot]

The catholic church has a different opinion.

Please read these Bible verses:

Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus form part of the Holiness code and list prohibited forms of intercourse, including the following verses:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Chapter 18 verse 22[9]

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Chapter 20 verse 13[10]

Relevant links:

1) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus 20:13&version=NIV.

2) https://biblia.com/bible/esv/leviticus/18/22.

 

[Gilly]

Christians accept that the Bible is inaccurate and does not reflect today's values. It was a sin but is now accepted as normal. Islam also accepts that in today's world homosexuality is not something you can discriminate against.

 

[Barragan]

Well isn't leaving Islam punishable by death sentence as well in an islamic country?

A gay muslim in such a country would be caught between a rock and hard place in that case.

No there isn't a punishment for leaving Islam.

All media hyped.

Unless you can prove it via a verse from the Holy Quran?

It is written in there regarding defectors.

 

[street cricketer]

No there isn't a punishment for leaving Islam.

All media hyped.

Unless you can prove it via a verse from the Holy Quran?

It is written in there regarding defectors.

A lot of muslim countries have capital punishment laws for apostasy, no?

 

[Barragan]

A lot of muslim countries have capital punishment laws for apostasy, no?

They have a lot of laws, but can you prove it from the Holy Quran?

 

[street cricketer]

They have a lot of laws, but can you prove it from the Holy Quran?

"If he still wants remain gay and a Muslim, then he has to face the punishment according to Islamic laws."

Okay I got confused. When you were saying he has to face punishment according to Islamic laws, were you talking about the after life?

I assumed you were talking about him facing punishment in this world, which was a bit confusing to me because he lives in England where shariah laws don't exist.

 

[Robert]

Death.



He has clearly indulged in homosexuality activities, so it's not just thoughts.

Just denounce Islam and move on, not very hard.

Just seeking attention and nothing more.

Ah, but that would mean denouncing the very meaning of his life.

It’s a difficult one as his body has needs which his religion says are wrong. He can either remain pious and suffer without sexual fulfilment, which USC’s massive ask, if he can fulfil his body’s needs and reject his life’s meaning, which is psychologically devastating.

I’m not gay but I left the religion I was born into and that’s really hard as the people closest to you are hurt and upset.

 

[cricket4all]

Personally think being gay is wrong, but it is upto the individual, and everyone should have a right to live their life without discrimination whether gay, straight, muslim, christian, blac, white, asian etc.

Being gay and muslim I think is allowed as is being gay and most religions. What isn't allowed in Islam nd I believe in most Abrahmic religions is for example acting out or carrying out a gay act(s). I think it's allowed being if you don't practice as some people can not change how they feel (and I am not saying they should). Each to their own and have a right to being gay, straight, muslim, christian etc.

I suppose there are some people who are muslim don't practice fully either but are still muslim. So gay feelings (but not actions) and practiing is allowed but actually doing gay acts as a muslim is not. I maybe wrong as I am not overly religous and also don't know how gay people feel.

 

[topspin]

You can't be gay and muslim.

You can denounce Islam, be gay and live your life as you please.

If he still wants remain gay and a Muslim, then he has to face the punishment according to Islamic laws.

Your knowledge and application of Islam is appalling.

Being gay does not take you out of the fold of Islam.

You just come across as a homophobic individual. Mind your own business and worry about your own sins.

 

[Tubs]

I am glad to see everyone's true colours once again.

'He is not Muslim'

'He would be killed under shariah'

'B-b-but other religions are against it too'

I admire the honesty.

 

[Barragan]

"If he still wants remain gay and a Muslim, then he has to face the punishment according to Islamic laws."

Okay I got confused. When you were saying he has to face punishment according to Islamic laws, were you talking about the after life?

I assumed you were talking about him facing punishment in this world, which was a bit confusing to me because he lives in England where shariah laws don't exist.

No, there is no compulsion in religion, as it is mentioned in the Holy Quran.

People can leave whenever they want and these laws of death for apostates is completely wrong.

 

[Barragan]

Your knowledge and application of Islam is appalling.

Being gay does not take you out of the fold of Islam.

You just come across as a homophobic individual. Mind your own business and worry about your own sins.

Have you ever read the Holy Quran?

Have you ever heard of a Prophet called Lut or Lot?

Do you even know the story?

It is the other way around, regarding knowledge of Islam.

 

[Technics 1210]

Death.



He has clearly indulged in homosexuality activities, so it's not just thoughts.

Just denounce Islam and move on, not very hard.

Just seeking attention and nothing more.

Where in the Qur’an does it state Gays should be sentenced to death?

 

[Barragan]

Where in the Qur’an does it state Gays should be sentenced to death?

Read the story of Prophet Lut.

See what happened to them.

 

[sweep_shot]

Where in the Qur’an does it state Gays should be sentenced to death?

I believe it is in the Hadith.

 

[Technics 1210]

Read the story of Prophet Lut.

See what happened to them.

That’s not what I asked you.

You see, I know you cannot cite a verse from the Qur’an that ordains death to gays, and for this reason your views are the problem, which give Islam a bad name. Why? You recite in Arabic but never actually understand what you are reciting.

Go read the Qur’an in a language you understand then come back with claims you can substantiate.

 

[Technics 1210]

PS: The story of Lut in the Qur’an mentions DIVINE RETRIBUTION on sinful people.

The Qur’an neither ordains nor permits the death of gays at the hands of humans.

 

[Barragan]

That’s not what I asked you.

You see, I know you cannot cite a verse from the Qur’an that ordains death to gays, and for this reason your views are the problem, which give Islam a bad name. Why? You recite in Arabic but never actually understand what you are reciting.

Go read the Qur’an in a language you understand then come back with claims you can substantiate.

Here it is mate:

When their brother Lot said unto them: Will ye not ward off (evil)? (161)
Lo! I am a faithful messenger unto you, (162)
So keep your duty to Allah and obey me. (163)
And I ask of you no wage therefor; my wage is the concern only of the Lord of the Worlds. (164)
What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, (165)
And leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk. (166)
They said: If thou cease not, O Lot, thou wilt soon be of the outcast. (167)
He said: I am in truth of those who hate your conduct. (168)
My Lord! Save me and my household from what they do. (169)
So We saved him and his household, every one, (170)
Save an old woman among those who stayed behind. (171)
Then afterward We destroyed the others. (172)
And We rained on them a rain. And dreadful is the rain of those who have been warned. (173)
Lo! herein is indeed a portent, yet most of them are not believers. (174)

If you want to know for reference, then it is 26:161-174

There are also hadiths regarding it as well.

 

[Barragan]

Here it is mate:

When their brother Lot said unto them: Will ye not ward off (evil)? (161)
Lo! I am a faithful messenger unto you, (162)
So keep your duty to Allah and obey me. (163)
And I ask of you no wage therefor; my wage is the concern only of the Lord of the Worlds. (164)
What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, (165)
And leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk. (166)
They said: If thou cease not, O Lot, thou wilt soon be of the outcast. (167)
He said: I am in truth of those who hate your conduct. (168)
My Lord! Save me and my household from what they do. (169)
So We saved him and his household, every one, (170)
Save an old woman among those who stayed behind. (171)
Then afterward We destroyed the others. (172)
And We rained on them a rain. And dreadful is the rain of those who have been warned. (173)
Lo! herein is indeed a portent, yet most of them are not believers. (174)

If you want to know for reference, then it is 26:161-174

There are also hadiths regarding it as well.

PS: The story of Lut in the Qur’an mentions DIVINE RETRIBUTION on sinful people.

The Qur’an neither ordains nor permits the death of gays at the hands of humans.

The sin was of sodomy.

Even in the bible it is mentioned.

 

[Technics 1210]

Here it is mate:

When their brother Lot said unto them: Will ye not ward off (evil)? (161)
Lo! I am a faithful messenger unto you, (162)
So keep your duty to Allah and obey me. (163)
And I ask of you no wage therefor; my wage is the concern only of the Lord of the Worlds. (164)
What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, (165)
And leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk. (166)
They said: If thou cease not, O Lot, thou wilt soon be of the outcast. (167)
He said: I am in truth of those who hate your conduct. (168)
My Lord! Save me and my household from what they do. (169)
So We saved him and his household, every one, (170)
Save an old woman among those who stayed behind. (171)
Then afterward We destroyed the others. (172)
And We rained on them a rain. And dreadful is the rain of those who have been warned. (173)
Lo! herein is indeed a portent, yet most of them are not believers. (174)

If you want to know for reference, then it is 26:161-174

There are also hadiths regarding it as well.

Googled did you? Where does it say to kill gays? At best the verses you have cited command gays to be outcasted, not death as you claimed.

The Hadiths were tabulated 200 years AFTER the Qur’an was revealed.

Show me where God instructed gays to be killed in the Qur’an - the divine message before Hadith.

 

[Technics 1210]

The sin was of sodomy.

Even in the bible it is mentioned.

And? We are not talking about sin, but punishment.

Qur’an, the bedrock and cornerstone of Islam states no such punishment other than divine retribution.

Bible mentions homosexuality is an abomination. This is totally different from your death claim.

 

[Barragan]

Googled did you? Where does it say to kill gays? At best the verses you have cited command gays to be outcasted, not death as you claimed.

The Hadiths were tabulated 200 years AFTER the Qur’an was revealed.

Show me where God instructed gays to be killed in the Qur’an - the divine message before Hadith.

And? We are not talking about sin, but punishment.

Qur’an, the bedrock and cornerstone of Islam states no such punishment other than divine retribution.

Bible mentions homosexuality is an abomination. This is totally different from your death claim.

I've read it multiple times, so don't need to Google it.

They were destroyed for practising homosexuality.

The gays wanted to drive out Prophet Lot from their town, when he warned them (if you can read it properly)

There is still residues of sulphur found in Israel, where this occurred.

If you want to interpret differently, then that is up to you.

 

[Technics 1210]

I've read it multiple times, so don't need to Google it.

They were destroyed for practising homosexuality.

The gays wanted to drive out Prophet Lot from their town, when he warned them (if you can read it properly)

There is still residues of sulphur found in Israel, where this occurred.

If you want to interpret differently, then that is up to you.

Basically your post is a euphemism for you cannot cite a verse from the Qur’an the states the punishment for being gay is death.

It’s not a matter of interpretation, the verses you Googled didn’t include the term ‘death’.

This is how easy it is to expose the blind followers of Islam, the embarrassments, simply ask them to cite a verse.

Carry on spreading falsehoods, you are doing no favours to Islam.

 

[Barragan]

Basically your post is a euphemism for you cannot cite a verse from the Qur’an the states the punishment for being gay is death.

It’s not a matter of interpretation, the verses you Googled didn’t include the term ‘death’.

This is how easy it is to expose the blind followers of Islam, the embarrassments, simply ask them to cite a verse.

Carry on spreading falsehoods, you are doing no favours to Islam.

It clearly states they were destroyed:

Then afterward We destroyed the others. (172

You can have your own version, but it'll be your own version.

None of those people were spared, who were practicising homosexuality.

 

[Technics 1210]

No such thing as thought crime. The mind is a private space, and it was always made that way. Surely any censure depends only on the actions taken (or not).

Side point, there is such a thing as thought crime - Holocaust denial. (Albeit in a number of countries)

 

[Technics 1210]

It clearly states they were destroyed:

Then afterward We destroyed the others. (172

You can have your own version, but it'll be your own version.

None of those people were spared, who were practicising homosexuality.

DIVINE RETRIBUTION!

Here is what you said - now read carefully - If he still wants remain gay and a Muslim, then he has to face the punishment according to Islamic laws.

Cite me the Islamic law you speak of in the Qur’an.

Last chance.

 

[topspin]

Have you ever read the Holy Quran?

Have you ever heard of a Prophet called Lut or Lot?

Do you even know the story?

It is the other way around, regarding knowledge of Islam.

I'm no Islamic scholar but what I do know is there is only one act that takes you out of the fold of Islam and that is Shirk.

I don't personally agree with homosexuality but gay male Muslims are still our brothers in Islam, whether you like it or not.

I think you need to learn how to apply the principles of Islam.

 

[Barragan]

DIVINE RETRIBUTION!

Here is what you said - now read carefully - If he still wants remain gay and a Muslim, then he has to face the punishment according to Islamic laws.

Cite me the Islamic law you speak of in the Qur’an.

Last chance.

The divine punishment is the islamic punishment. They were destroyed to show everyone what would happen, if they were homosexuals and that is the whole point of this verse.

It is also followed up by Hadiths as well.

Both have mentioned death, so that is the punishment for homosexuality.

If only Hadiths mentions death and nothing about the destruction of gays in the Holy Quran, then you would have a point, but that is not the case here.

 

[Barragan]

I'm no Islamic scholar but what I do know is there is only one act that takes you out of the fold of Islam and that is Shirk.

I don't personally agree with homosexuality but gay male Muslims are still our brothers in Islam, whether you like it or not.

I think you need to learn how to apply the principles of Islam.

So, were not the people of Prophet Lut his brothers?

What about his wife also being destroyed for agreeing with the towns people?

Why the destruction of a whole region, if homosexuality is forgivable?

 

[Technics 1210]

Divine punishment is not Islamic Law.

Hadith is not a divine revelation.

FACTS.

 

[Barragan]

Divine punishment is not Islamic Law.

Hadith is not a divine revelation.

FACTS.

The Holy Quran mentions a punishemnt, then it is followed up by a Hadith = punishment for the act.

That is exactly how it works.

FACTS

 

[realitygaf]

Considering that the fact that thinking of yourself as Trans or considering yourself as Gay is more of a persons mindset, Depression and mental fragility is not too far from many folks . You can tell from studies recently

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...s-between-gay-straight-suicide-deaths-n978211

Gay individuals are 5x more likely to commit suicide compared to Straight individuals. That is because they already suffer from the mental affliction that triggers their need to be Gay or Trans. This doesnt mean we should treat them with disrespect, It means we should show sympathy towards them not feel hatred towards gay individuals who have a clear mental affliction

Why are people who suffer from prejudice due to their faith or color of their skin not suffering from the same suicide rates as those who think they are lgtbq

 

[topspin]

I am glad to see everyone's true colours once again.

'He is not Muslim'

'He would be killed under shariah'

'B-b-but other religions are against it too'

I admire the honesty.

And all those making this views are simply ignorant about their own faith. They are simply homophobic.

Unfortunately, too many people use religion to hide their ignorance and hatred.

 

[street cricketer]

Considering that the fact that thinking of yourself as Trans or considering yourself as Gay is more of a persons mindset, Depression and mental fragility is not too far from many folks . You can tell from studies recently

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...s-between-gay-straight-suicide-deaths-n978211

Gay individuals are 5x more likely to commit suicide compared to Straight individuals. That is because they already suffer from the mental affliction that triggers their need to be Gay or Trans. This doesnt mean we should treat them with disrespect, It means we should show sympathy towards them not feel hatred towards gay individuals who have a clear mental affliction

Why are people who suffer from prejudice due to their faith or color of their skin not suffering from the same suicide rates as those who think they are lgtbq

Maybe because when a white person mistreats you for faith or race, you'll have thousands of brown people to give you solidarity. But those same brown people would wish you death if you said to them you were gay. The more politer ignorant ones would say you have a mental illness that should be treated. That's the difference. Lgbtq are often the most marginalised within marginalised communities.

 

[Mamoon]

I am proudly homophobic, but to claim that homosexuals are not Muslims is a load of garbage.

There are only two things that takes you out of the fold Islam - shirk and renouncing your faith.

Apart from that, regardless of how big of a sinner you are, you will still remain a Muslim.

 

[Robert]

So, were not the people of Prophet Lut his brothers?

What about his wife also being destroyed for agreeing with the towns people?

Why the destruction of a whole region, if homosexuality is forgivable?

In the Christian tradition, the story is less about homosexuality and more about lack of hospitality. The cities of the plain get nuked from orbit because they treat guests badly.

As there are no men left to marry, Lot’s daughters have to get their father drunk and seduce him in order to get pregnant. Not much of a moral example!

 

[the Great Khan]

The Holy Quran mentions a punishemnt, then it is followed up by a Hadith = punishment for the act.

That is exactly how it works.

FACTS

Sorry but I don't think your in any position to explain the shariah on here. Especially around sexual misconduct within the shariah.

If you don't have the requisite knowledge please don't say anything without studying the subject first.

 

[the Great Khan]

So, were not the people of Prophet Lut his brothers?

What about his wife also being destroyed for agreeing with the towns people?

Why the destruction of a whole region, if homosexuality is forgivable?

Bro every sin is forgivable other than shirk. End of. But only Allah swt can decided if you bare forgiven. You will only find out on judgement day.

With regards to homosexuality its better kay purdah daalo. What one does in their four walls is between them and the creator.

 

[James]

I am proudly homophobic, but to claim that homosexuals are not Muslims is a load of garbage.

There are only two things that takes you out of the fold Islam - shirk and renouncing your faith.

Apart from that, regardless of how big of a sinner you are, you will still remain a Muslim.

Proudly homophobic?

Interesting way of putting it.

 

[Barragan]

Sorry but I don't think your in any position to explain the shariah on here. Especially around sexual misconduct within the shariah.

If you don't have the requisite knowledge please don't say anything without studying the subject first.

Bro every sin is forgivable other than shirk. End of. But only Allah swt can decided if you bare forgiven. You will only find out on judgement day.

With regards to homosexuality its better kay purdah daalo. What one does in their four walls is between them and the creator.

There are Hadiths regarding it, so might as well prove me wrong with sources and discrediting my claims.

No point of saying "don't talk, you don't know anything".

 

[realitygaf]

Maybe because when a white person mistreats you for faith or race, you'll have thousands of brown people to give you solidarity. But those same brown people would wish you death if you said to them you were gay. The more politer ignorant ones would say you have a mental illness that should be treated. That's the difference. Lgbtq are often the most marginalised within marginalised communities.

America and the west society where gays are more accepted than Muslims disagrees with you

 

[realitygaf]

Proudly homophobic?

Interesting way of putting it.

Many are blinded and don’t realize that being gay is not a norm and just the concept of individualism has accelerated the notion that outliers are not really outliers but common . For example to blend development disability folks into society they are treated as functionally the same as those without the condition despite everyone knowing they are not functionally the same . We treat them with care but forget they need more care than normal , despite that if you say they are not fully functional part of society you get frowned upon for stating cold facts.

 

[street cricketer]

America and the west society where gays are more accepted than Muslims disagrees with you

What if he's born in a muslim country though?

 

[albinogonk]

Death.



He has clearly indulged in homosexuality activities, so it's not just thoughts.

Just denounce Islam and move on, not very hard.

Just seeking attention and nothing more.

With all due respect, some of your statements in this thread show a distinct lack of fiqhi knowledge. Calling yourself gay and having homosexual thoughts are not things that take you out of the fold of Islam nor are they punishable by death or any other form of punishment. Islam doesn't punish thought crimes. Homosexual acts are what can be punished (in an islamic state of course and after a trial with eyewitnesses etc- no one should be supporting any type of vigilante action).

The act of participating in homosexual activity is a sin but doesn't take you out of the fold of Islam UNLESS the person thinks they aren't sinning at all thereby denying a clear part of the Quran where these acts are called an abomination. There is one thing giving in to the whispers of shaytaan (just like those who drink alcohol or commit zina do) but another thing altogether trying to change the religion itself.

 

[realitygaf]

What if he's born in a muslim country though?

The suicide rates are lower in Muslim countries

 

[Barragan]

With all due respect, some of your statements in this thread show a distinct lack of fiqhi knowledge. Calling yourself gay and having homosexual thoughts are not things that take you out of the fold of Islam nor are they punishable by death or any other form of punishment. Islam doesn't punish thought crimes. Homosexual acts are what can be punished (in an islamic state of course and after a trial with eyewitnesses etc- no one should be supporting any type of vigilante action).

The act of participating in homosexual activity is a sin but doesn't take you out of the fold of Islam UNLESS the person thinks they aren't sinning at all thereby denying a clear part of the Quran where these acts are called an abomination. There is one thing giving in to the whispers of shaytaan (just like those who drink alcohol or commit zina do) but another thing altogether trying to change the religion itself.

The discussion isn't about thoughts.

No one knows what another person is thinking.

The discussion is about, if a person is partaking in sodomy and what would be the punishment.

 

[albinogonk]

The discussion isn't about thoughts.

No one knows what another person is thinking.

The discussion is about, if a person is partaking in sodomy and what would be the punishment.

Your earlier statements were you cant be gay and Muslim. Which is incorrect as outlined by my post. You can be a sinner and remain a Muslim. You can also have gay thoughts, like a well known Muslim such as Paul Williams has admitted to, yet not partake in any homosexual activity and be an active religious Muslim.

 

[Barragan]

Your earlier statements were you cant be gay and Muslim. Which is incorrect as outlined by my post. You can be a sinner and remain a Muslim. You can also have gay thoughts, like a well known Muslim such as Paul Williams has admitted to, yet not partake in any homosexual activity and be an active religious Muslim.

That's the whole debate.

You can't be because you would have to face the punishment for homosexuality.

What is the punishment?

 

[James]

The discussion isn't about thoughts.

No one knows what another person is thinking.

The discussion is about, if a person is partaking in sodomy and what would be the punishment.

No I think you have moved the goalposts there, with respect.

 

[James]

With all due respect, some of your statements in this thread show a distinct lack of fiqhi knowledge. Calling yourself gay and having homosexual thoughts are not things that take you out of the fold of Islam nor are they punishable by death or any other form of punishment. Islam doesn't punish thought crimes. Homosexual acts are what can be punished (in an islamic state of course and after a trial with eyewitnesses etc- no one should be supporting any type of vigilante action).

The act of participating in homosexual activity is a sin but doesn't take you out of the fold of Islam UNLESS the person thinks they aren't sinning at all thereby denying a clear part of the Quran where these acts are called an abomination. There is one thing giving in to the whispers of shaytaan (just like those who drink alcohol or commit zina do) but another thing altogether trying to change the religion itself.

Good measured post.

This is also my understanding.

 

[albinogonk]

That's the whole debate.

You can't be because you would have to face the punishment for homosexuality.

What is the punishment?

In an islamic state, i believe most theologians deem it be the same as adultery ie the death penalty. It doesn't mean you're excommunicated from the religion though, just like adulterers arent.

Neither does your statement take into account gay Muslims who live in non Muslim countries abd therefore are not liable to recieve the islamic punishment. Your whole reasoning comes across as confused

 

[Robert]

Many are blinded and don’t realize that being gay is not a norm and just the concept of individualism has accelerated the notion that outliers are not really outliers but common ..

Of course homosexuality is part of the norm, has been since the beginning of our species and for at least two hundred species more.

 

[Barragan]

No I think you have moved the goalposts there, with respect.

No, I haven't.

I'd like to see where I have.

 

[Barragan]

Who is going to kill him, its against Islam to kill anyone.

No one is going to kill him.

Here I've said no one should take any action.

In an islamic state, i believe most theologians deem it be the same as adultery ie the death penalty. It doesn't mean you're excommunicated from the religion though, just like adulterers arent.

Neither does your statement take into account gay Muslims who live in non Muslim countries abd therefore are not liable to recieve the islamic punishment. Your whole reasoning comes across as confused

He would face the punishment and be gone, so ofc both don't go together.