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[VIDEO] Intense Fight between Senator Hafiz Hamdullah (JUIF) & Marvi Sirmed (SAFMA)

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Hate them both Hamidullah is a JUI mullah with extreme mindset and the Marvi is a liberal fascist. Both these mindsets are destroying my country.

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Marvi says he attacked me physically later

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What a use of words like bamboo, ukhar lo, pee ker aaye ho on a national tv channel :facepalm:

I am shocked Fayaz Chohan didn't jump in otherwise he love these heated moments ;)
 
Hate them both Hamidullah is a JUI mullah with extreme mindset and the Marvi is a liberal fascist.

What exactly is a liberal "fascist"? How do you define fascism, and how does a liberal be a liberal and a fascist?
 
Disgusting. Both of these people are despicable. Most people on social media are blaming the maulvi but this double chin fat aunty is really messed up. Sounds like a cow with a high pitched voice that has had too much to drink.
 
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What exactly is a liberal "fascist"? How do you define fascism, and how does a liberal be a liberal and a fascist?

I am sorry if you find it offensive but what i mean is that i just don't like these both kinds of extreme mindsets one hiding under the name of religion while the some kind the liberals (not all liberals and i use the term liberal fascist for those few) hiding under the banner of Human Rights Activism and Secularism while both these extreme mindsets working on their own agendas.
 
I am sorry if you find it offensive but what i mean is that i just don't like these both kinds of extreme mindsets one hiding under the name of religion while the some kind the liberals (not all liberals and i use the term liberal fascist for those few) hiding under the banner of Human Rights Activism and Secularism while both these extreme mindsets working on their own agendas.

You haven't really answered the questions. How do you define fascism? How does a liberal start encroaching into fascist territory, and where is the dividing line between liberalism and fascism and how does a liberal avoid crossing it? Is it possible to be a liberal and a fascist at the same time, if so how?

I don't know who this Marvi lady is, or what she does. I'm just curious, given how often this liberal fascist term is bandied about.
 
Mullahs should get wiped off this planet. Disgusting mysognic creatures.
 
You haven't really answered the questions. How do you define fascism? How does a liberal start encroaching into fascist territory, and where is the dividing line between liberalism and fascism and how does a liberal avoid crossing it? Is it possible to be a liberal and a fascist at the same time, if so how?

I don't know who this Marvi lady is, or what she does. I'm just curious, given how often this liberal fascist term is bandied about.

Liberals can be fascists. The Jacobins, who launched the French Revolution, acted very violently against traditional (including religious) symbols (and peoples), and are the ancestors of all the criminal communist régimes, which killed tens of millions in the name of militant atheism.
 
Mullahs should get wiped off this planet. Disgusting mysognic creatures.

And let's keep the bankers, perhaps ? 'Mullahs' have lost all relevance in the modern world, unless you live in Iran or Saudi Arabia.
 
And let's keep the bankers, perhaps ? 'Mullahs' have lost all relevance in the modern world, unless you live in Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Bankers exploit people in financial terms. Mullahs exploit people in intellectual terms. I would rather keep up with the latter, hence get rid of Mullahs.
 
Liberals can be fascists. The Jacobins, who launched the French Revolution, acted very violently against traditional (including religious) symbols (and peoples), and are the ancestors of all the criminal communist régimes, which killed tens of millions in the name of militant atheism.

I hardly think the average bourgeois Pakistani with barely concealed right-wing sympathies is thinking of Jacobins, or even aware of who they were. They are just vaguely aware that fascism is bad. Since liberals are bad, or as the worn out bromide goes "as bad as the mullahs," therefore liberals must be fascists.

What has the average Pakistani "liberal fascist" done that would equate them to Jacobins, communist regimes etc?
 
Bankers exploit people in financial terms. Mullahs exploit people in intellectual terms. I would rather keep up with the latter, hence get rid of Mullahs.

In Pakistan or India they "intellectually exploit" (sic) people ? What about Bollywood, politicians, etc ? Are "mullahs" behind the corruption in Pakistan ?

I hardly think the average bourgeois Pakistani with barely concealed right-wing sympathies is thinking of Jacobins, or even aware of who they were. They are just vaguely aware that fascism is bad. Since liberals are bad, or as the worn out bromide goes "as bad as the mullahs," therefore liberals must be fascists.

What has the average Pakistani "liberal fascist" done that would equate them to Jacobins, communist regimes etc?

I'm not talking of the generic Pak "liberal", but Marvi Sirmed in particular.

But do you admit then all "mullahs" aren't the same either ?
 
Then there is the other worn out insinuation: that liberals are somehow just as bad as the maulvis. People who routinely dish out this insinuation are almost defensive when they do so: admitting very grudgingly the mayhem, death and destruction the maulvi has brought to Pakistan, then soothing their obvious sympathies with the maulvis by claiming that the liberals too are as bad.
 
I'm not talking of the generic Pak "liberal", but Marvi Sirmed in particular.

You may be, but it is hardly a term reserved for her. That's what I'm trying to understand: what exactly is a liberal fascist in the Pakistani context, and if it is reserved for a select few (which my contention is that it is hardly the case, given the ubiquitousness of the term when discussing liberals), what separates them from the run-of-the-mill non-fascist liberals, and exactly how are they just as bad as the maulvis?
 
In Pakistan or India they "intellectually exploit" (sic) people ? What about Bollywood, politicians, etc ? Are "mullahs" behind the corruption in Pakistan ?



Yes, they corrupt people's minds with their archaic, outdated thinking. So in some way or other, they are behind corruption in Pakistan.
 
In Pakistan or India they "intellectually exploit" (sic) people ? What about Bollywood, politicians, etc ? Are "mullahs" behind the corruption in Pakistan ?



I'm not talking of the generic Pak "liberal", but Marvi Sirmed in particular.

But do you admit then all "mullahs" aren't the same either ?

To support a Priest or a Mullah is like degrading mind where one has to follow as prescribed,I rather take a Banker because he is still below the law of the land and as we saw in USA the young liberals movement of occupy wall street proved that liberals don't really care who is corrupt they go for everyone sadly the Sankaracharyas or the Mullahs,Bishops are usually above the law of the land.
 
I have been in double mind for a few months now about my views on being a liberal and conservative and i realize I'm confusing myself thinking Congress leaders are Liberals,seculars and that they are hypocrites and corrupted and i rather prefer conservative capitalist in the name of BJP,what my opinion right now is that true liberals aren't congress or the lady above but one calls a spade a spade.

A conservative would never talk bad about the religious head of majority,the fake liberal would always talk bad about the same but not talk against the minority's religious head because of his fake liberalism.

True liberals like the ones we are seeing emerging in USA now in the name of Sanders and his supporters who speak well and give issue based support and criticism are the true liberals and one should thrive for the same imo.
 
I think he tried to beat her softly within the limits.
 
And let's keep the bankers, perhaps ? 'Mullahs' have lost all relevance in the modern world, unless you live in Iran or Saudi Arabia.

So the maulvis are irrelevant in Pakistan? Those that have slaughtered tens of thousands, the ones with state protection, the ones who can't be touched even when there are criminal cases against them, the ones that take the law into their own hands, the ones who get elected, the unelected ones who hold forth on legislation, the ones who strut around the streets and barge into any place they so please, they are all irrelevant?
 
Hate them both Hamidullah is a JUI mullah with extreme mindset and the Marvi is a liberal fascist. Both these mindsets are destroying my country.

Yeah, it was the liberal mindset which ravaged Pakistan and killed 60,000 Pakistanis. Wasn't it?

There is no scenario, whatsoever, which could even lead to a situation where religious extremism and liberal 'extremism' in Pakistan can be compared. The former mindset has destroyed our country for 3 decades now, killed off tens of thousands Pakistanis and we are still battling that monster in Wazirstan. While all the latter, or as you call it liberal 'fascism', is guilty of is bashing Mullahs every now and then. If that's 'extremism' for you then you need to change your definition on extremism.
 
Hate them both Hamidullah is a JUI mullah with extreme mindset and the Marvi is a liberal fascist. Both these mindsets are destroying my country.

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Marvi says he attacked me physically later

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And I should add, I find Marvi despicable too, woman has no manners either, but my earlier point still stands.
 
Yeah, it was the liberal mindset which ravaged Pakistan and killed 60,000 Pakistanis. Wasn't it?

There is no scenario, whatsoever, which could even lead to a situation where religious extremism and liberal 'extremism' in Pakistan can be compared. The former mindset has destroyed our country for 3 decades now, killed off tens of thousands Pakistanis and we are still battling that monster in Wazirstan. While all the latter, or as you call it liberal 'fascism', is guilty of is bashing Mullahs every now and then. If that's 'extremism' for you then you need to change your definition on extremism.

Precisely the point I was trying to make. How on earth are the two equivalent? People who try to feign neutrality are really struggling to disguise their obvious right-wing bent, and finding solace in this false equivalence between the "fascism/extremism" of beleaguered liberals and a marauding, blood-stained maulvi juggernaut.
 
I have never seen the terms liberal fascist or libtard used by someone who didn't have mullah sympathies or held opinions like ''American created the talibans'' or ''They take up arms because of the drone strikes''.
 
Yeah, it was the liberal mindset which ravaged Pakistan and killed 60,000 Pakistanis. Wasn't it?

There is no scenario, whatsoever, which could even lead to a situation where religious extremism and liberal 'extremism' in Pakistan can be compared. The former mindset has destroyed our country for 3 decades now, killed off tens of thousands Pakistanis and we are still battling that monster in Wazirstan. While all the latter, or as you call it liberal 'fascism', is guilty of is bashing Mullahs every now and then. If that's 'extremism' for you then you need to change your definition on extremism.

I don't understand what Pakistanis who whine about "liberal fascism" want when they claim they are also against the Jamaati goons.
 
I have never seen the terms liberal fascist or libtard used by someone who didn't have mullah sympathies or held opinions like ''American created the talibans'' or ''They take up arms because of the drone strikes''.

Or they have a soft spot for the Afghan Taliban in spite of their brutality against their people.
 
Looks like thread is already under attack by some liberals i don't mean any offense but i will repeat again i don't like both of extreme ends (mullahs and marvi types). Just because one doesn't like these marvi and asma jahagir types doesn't mean he/she likes TTP or believe in conspiracy theories and FYI i hate these TTP animals more thn you guys i have lost a family member fighting against these animal in swat operation so don't ever point a finger on my views about those animals.

Majority of Pakistanis don't claim to be liberals or mullahs so whats wrong with these 2 groups why they want to force their views on us why can't they keep their agendas out of our lives.
 
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Looks like thread is already under attack by some liberals i don't mean any offense but i will repeat again i don't like both of extreme ends (mullahs and marvi types). Just because one doesn't like these marvi and asma jahagir types doesn't mean he/she likes TTP or believe in conspiracy theories and FYI i hate these TTP animals more thn you guys i have lost a family member fighting against these animal in swat operation so don't ever point a finger on my views about those animals.

Majority of Pakistanis don't claim to be liberals or mullahs so whats wrong with these 2 groups why they want to force their views on us why can't they keep their agendas out of our lives.

You said "both these mindsets are destroying my country." They most certainly are not. Only one is.

The liberal "agenda" is easy to ignore and "keep out of our lives" if you disagree with it. The maulvi agenda is forced down your throat, has enjoyed state patronage, and is enforced through death. Slowly and slyly at first, and then blatantly and shamelessly in the last few years, it had come to enjoy widespread acceptance in Pakistan. The same can hardly be said of the liberal agenda, such as it is.

I'm still waiting for a clear explanation of who or what a liberal fascist is.
 
You said "both these mindsets are destroying my country." They most certainly are not. Only one is.

The liberal "agenda" is easy to ignore and "keep out of our lives" if you disagree with it. The maulvi agenda is forced down your throat, has enjoyed state patronage, and is enforced through death. Slowly and slyly at first, and then blatantly and shamelessly in the last few years, it had come to enjoy widespread acceptance in Pakistan. The same can hardly be said of the liberal agenda, such as it is.

I'm still waiting for a clear explanation of who or what a liberal fascist is.

Makes me think how Da'esh would be welcome with open arms if they took over Lahore or Karachi or Peshawar similarly as they did in Mosul.
 
Looks like thread is already under attack by some liberals i don't mean any offense but i will repeat again i don't like both of extreme ends (mullahs and marvi types). Just because one doesn't like these marvi and asma jahagir types doesn't mean he/she likes TTP or believe in conspiracy theories and FYI i hate these TTP animals more thn you guys i have lost a family member fighting against these animal in swat operation so don't ever point a finger on my views about those animals.

Majority of Pakistanis don't claim to be liberals or mullahs so whats wrong with these 2 groups why they want to force their views on us why can't they keep their agendas out of our lives.

You're not the only one who's lost family or friends, pal.

Secondly, last time I checked, Pakistan was an Islamic republic. A republic which has suffered grievously at the hands of religious nutters. So who is it again who was forcing down views? I only responded when you included liberalism as a mindset who was supposedly destroying our nation.

Some people boggle me. We have our country devastated due to an extremist mentality since Zia time, we are even fighting a war now as we type here(!!) We have had liberals shot and murdered for their views, we had a liberal governor murdered in broadlight when he spoke against the ridiculous blasphemy law. This is not even counting 60,000 dead Pakistanis due to suicide attacks or the war in Wazirstan by people who killed OUR fellow citizens precisely because they deemed us not following their sick brand of Islam. THIS is called forcing an agenda down peoples' throats. People like you however think a liberal mouthing off in a newspaper or for 15 minutes on a talkshow is forcing their views on you...when even comparing the two is bereft of any type of common sense.

When liberalism in Pakistan is responsible for the mayhem and carnage we have seen or when liberalism in Pakistan is responsible for the murder of innocent school kids then come and talk and equate both in the same sentence; then come and say liberalism is enforcing its 'agenda' on you.

Till then, atleast, have some respect for liberals who have not resorted to mass murder like their supposed religious extremist counterparts.
 
You're not the only one who's lost family or friends, pal.

Secondly, last time I checked, Pakistan was an Islamic republic. A republic which has suffered grievously at the hands of religious nutters. So who is it again who was forcing down views? I only responded when you included liberalism as a mindset who was supposedly destroying our nation.

Some people boggle me. We have our country devastated due to an extremist mentality since Zia time, we are even fighting a war now as we type here(!!) We have had liberals shot and murdered for their views, we had a liberal governor murdered in broadlight when he spoke against the ridiculous blasphemy law. This is not even counting 60,000 dead Pakistanis due to suicide attacks or the war in Wazirstan by people who killed OUR fellow citizens precisely because they deemed us not following their sick brand of Islam. THIS is called forcing an agenda down peoples' throats. People like you however think a liberal mouthing off in a newspaper or for 15 minutes on a talkshow is forcing their views on you...when even comparing the two is bereft of any type of common sense.

When liberalism in Pakistan is responsible for the mayhem and carnage we have seen or when liberalism in Pakistan is responsible for the murder of innocent school kids then come and talk and equate both in the same sentence; then come and say liberalism is enforcing its 'agenda' on you.

Till then, atleast, have some respect for liberals who have not resorted to mass murder like their supposed religious extremist counterparts.

I guess before quoting me you missed my post where i saw some liberals not all. And by that i means Marvi and Sethi type i am sorry if that hurts you but they are also not loyal with this country. When we say mullah that doesn't mean all mullahs because there are those who don't promote this extreme type agendas and are just busy doing immamat of masajid nothing more thn that but we use the term mullah/molvis without excluding them so the term liberal fascist wasn't for all liberals here i made it clear in my early post.
 
I guess before quoting me you missed my post where i saw some liberals not all. And by that i means Marvi and Sethi type i am sorry if that hurts you but they are also not loyal with this country. When we say mullah that doesn't mean all mullahs because there are those who don't promote this extreme type agendas and are just busy doing immamat of masajid nothing more thn that but we use the term mullah/molvis without excluding them so the term liberal fascist wasn't for all liberals here i made it clear in my early post.

How is Marvi destroying our country? As much as I agree she is a highly irritating woman, but as since she's not in power her loyalty or disloyalty is largely irrelevant.

Or better, give me 3 examples how 'extreme' liberalism is destroying our country, the same way extreme religious behavior has since you equated both of them in the same sentence.

I look forward to seeing the liberal fascist atrocities you list.
 
Lets equate Marvi, whoever she is or whatever she's guilty of, with a JUI maulvi when Marvi runs a vast network of madrasahs brainwashing little kids, or when she is able to weasel her way into every single government, or when she is an official candidate for PM and a man as popular as Imran Khan votes for her, like in 2002.
 
Good posts by [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] and [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] - you've taken the words out of my mouth. One of the biggest myths in Pakistani political discourse is to falsely equate the poisonous ideology of mullahcracy which is an ideology far deeper rooted in fascism to this so called "liberal fascism". The phrase liberal fascist is as empty as it is oxymoronic. The very meaning of liberalism is social reform not through violent enforcement like fascism, but gradual political and legislative struggle.

Infact the very creation of Pakistan was rooted in liberal ideals of individual rights and freedom.

How can anyone with any knowledge of Pakistani politics claim both are equally destructive ? Liberal fascism has not caused the deaths of tens of thousands of Pakistanis, the mass shooting of schoolchildren, honour killing, acid attacks or the destruction of girls education. No, there's only one ideology we can thank for these cancers in our society. The jamaatis hold a greatly disproportionate influence in Pakistan. Every election they are decisively rejected, mustering barely 5% of the polls yet can still hold an entire city hostage like they did after Qadri's execution and torch the streets alight.

Its a rhetorical device used by right wingers. If you don’t believe that only politicians are corrupt, and want accountability of judges, army, mullahs and the bureaucracy, you're a liberal fascist.

The fact is Pakistan had a huge liberal intelligentsia up until the 1970s. There were people from Quratul Ain Haider to Ismat Chughtai. Bhutto and then Zia's appeasement of the religious right killed off (sometimes literally) the influence of Pakistani liberalism.

Since then we have a wholly distorted political spectrum, far to the right, and liberals have to work within that confined space whereby now calling for even the most fundamental human rights for women and minorities supposedly makes one a liberal fascist.
 
personally I don't like Marvi because a)she uses his woman stature to really extreme level and b) she supports corrupt parties like PML N and PPP just because they are anti army.
 
Good posts by [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] and [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] - you've taken the words out of my mouth. One of the biggest myths in Pakistani political discourse is to falsely equate the poisonous ideology of mullahcracy which is an ideology far deeper rooted in fascism to this so called "liberal fascism". The phrase liberal fascist is as empty as it is oxymoronic. The very meaning of liberalism is social reform not through violent enforcement like fascism, but gradual political and legislative struggle.

Infact the very creation of Pakistan was rooted in liberal ideals of individual rights and freedom.

How can anyone with any knowledge of Pakistani politics claim both are equally destructive ? Liberal fascism has not caused the deaths of tens of thousands of Pakistanis, the mass shooting of schoolchildren, honour killing, acid attacks or the destruction of girls education. No, there's only one ideology we can thank for these cancers in our society. The jamaatis hold a greatly disproportionate influence in Pakistan. Every election they are decisively rejected, mustering barely 5% of the polls yet can still hold an entire city hostage like they did after Qadri's execution and torch the streets alight.

Its a rhetorical device used by right wingers. If you don’t believe that only politicians are corrupt, and want accountability of judges, army, mullahs and the bureaucracy, you're a liberal fascist.

The fact is Pakistan had a huge liberal intelligentsia up until the 1970s. There were people from Quratul Ain Haider to Ismat Chughtai. Bhutto and then Zia's appeasement of the religious right killed off (sometimes literally) the influence of Pakistani liberalism.

Since then we have a wholly distorted political spectrum, far to the right, and liberals have to work within that confined space whereby now calling for even the most fundamental human rights for women and minorities supposedly makes one a liberal fascist.

You're getting too worked up on terms . These people are known as liberal fascists because they would condemn a bombing by a so called religious group but then support the carpet bombing of hundreds as a reaction . Obama is seen as a liberal , his hands have more blood on them than the leader of ISIS.

As for the OP both people are a joke . This woman is just poison to Pakistan as a nation, no sympathy for her at all.
 
personally I don't like Marvi because a)she uses his woman stature to really extreme level and b) she supports corrupt parties like PML N and PPP just because they are anti army.


Was that intentional?
 
You're getting too worked up on terms . These people are known as liberal fascists because they would condemn a bombing by a so called religious group but then support the carpet bombing of hundreds as a reaction . Obama is seen as a liberal , his hands have more blood on them than the leader of ISIS.

As for the OP both people are a joke . This woman is just poison to Pakistan as a nation, no sympathy for her at all.

Anyone can support anything they want. Mullahs are free to support stoning people or supporting suicide attacks, just like some people support carpet bombing, as sick as both things are, everyone has freedom of thought to think whatever they want. But there is only one group in Pakistan who's turned their support and perverted thinking into actual action, resulting in mindless slaughter.

It ain't the ''liberal fascists''. And when the support of extreme ideologies is translated into actual action then that is where the problem is.

As for Obama, please don't be like Indians in this thread. Don't turn this thread into irrelevant chatter when the topic only deals with Pakistan. International wars or actions have a larger geo-political context rather just than liberalism or action based on religion or any ideology.
 
Good posts by [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] and [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] - you've taken the words out of my mouth. One of the biggest myths in Pakistani political discourse is to falsely equate the poisonous ideology of mullahcracy which is an ideology far deeper rooted in fascism to this so called "liberal fascism". The phrase liberal fascist is as empty as it is oxymoronic. The very meaning of liberalism is social reform not through violent enforcement like fascism, but gradual political and legislative struggle.

Infact the very creation of Pakistan was rooted in liberal ideals of individual rights and freedom.

How can anyone with any knowledge of Pakistani politics claim both are equally destructive ? Liberal fascism has not caused the deaths of tens of thousands of Pakistanis, the mass shooting of schoolchildren, honour killing, acid attacks or the destruction of girls education. No, there's only one ideology we can thank for these cancers in our society. The jamaatis hold a greatly disproportionate influence in Pakistan. Every election they are decisively rejected, mustering barely 5% of the polls yet can still hold an entire city hostage like they did after Qadri's execution and torch the streets alight.

Its a rhetorical device used by right wingers. If you don’t believe that only politicians are corrupt, and want accountability of judges, army, mullahs and the bureaucracy, you're a liberal fascist.

The fact is Pakistan had a huge liberal intelligentsia up until the 1970s. There were people from Quratul Ain Haider to Ismat Chughtai. Bhutto and then Zia's appeasement of the religious right killed off (sometimes literally) the influence of Pakistani liberalism.

Since then we have a wholly distorted political spectrum, far to the right, and liberals have to work within that confined space whereby now calling for even the most fundamental human rights for women and minorities supposedly makes one a liberal fascist.

Top post, agree with every word.

Any womens' bill in Parliament creates shock-waves in Pakistan, and never mind calling extreme far-right parties ''fascists''; their apologists come out in full force. I am not sure if you remember, this Wazirstan action now is only supported widely because of Peshawar killings. Before then any operation had significant domestic opposition, I still remember Swat. Yet God forbid if a liberal writes a column or has a 15 minute meltdown in the media, then it becomes very easy for certain people to thrown the despicable ''fascist'' term around.
 
Bankers exploit people in financial terms. Mullahs exploit people in intellectual terms. I would rather keep up with the latter, hence get rid of Mullahs.
Its embarrassing to listen this type of thoughts from a syed .... All mullahs are not bad ... problem is that our definition of Mullah is incorrect ... we said every bearded person A Mullah

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 
You're getting too worked up on terms . These people are known as liberal fascists because they would condemn a bombing by a so called religious group but then support the carpet bombing of hundreds as a reaction . Obama is seen as a liberal , his hands have more blood on them than the leader of ISIS.

As for the OP both people are a joke . This woman is just poison to Pakistan as a nation, no sympathy for her at all.

I hear you, I'm critical of liberal hypocrisy as much as conservative hypocrisy. I want no part of any liberal creed which supports carpet bombing of the tribal areas. Pashtun/tribal lives are just as precious as the life of a Lahori or Karachite.

However the religious right are entrenched in hypocrisy - we see some jamaatis who will cuss the hell outta the West yet send their kids to American universities, maulvis who preach forgiveness and kindness in one speech then next week are raining down insults on Shias and Ahmedis. Or claim Qadri was a courageous hero despite Qadri's best attempts to wriggle out of his deserved justice by sending appeal after appeal to the courts.

I find the latter more disingenous as these maulvis will hide behind Islam to justify their hypocrisy.
 
People should ignore liberals, outside internet forums the Pakistani public will never accept them.
 
People should ignore liberals, outside internet forums the Pakistani public will never accept them.

Yet despite being restricted to internet fora, they apparently constitute as massive a threat as the maulvis.

We punch well above our weight, us liberal types. Apparently.
 
Anyone can support anything they want. Mullahs are free to support stoning people or supporting suicide attacks, just like some people support carpet bombing, as sick as both things are, everyone has freedom of thought to think whatever they want. But there is only one group in Pakistan who's turned their support and perverted thinking into actual action, resulting in mindless slaughter.

It ain't the ''liberal fascists''. And when the support of extreme ideologies is translated into actual action then that is where the problem is.

As for Obama, please don't be like Indians in this thread. Don't turn this thread into irrelevant chatter when the topic only deals with Pakistan. International wars or actions have a larger geo-political context rather just than liberalism or action based on religion or any ideology.

If this guy has proven to do 'actual action ' which led to terrorism in Pakistan , why is he on t.v? Otherwise they just both hold extreme ideas .

Obama is seen as a liberal president , yet his forces have killed plenty . Point being people who portray themselves as liberal are really not .
 
Yet despite being restricted to internet fora, they apparently constitute as massive a threat as the maulvis.

We punch well above our weight, us liberal types. Apparently.

It's never clear what a liberal is but you seem to have a clear definition .

You say 'we' so which famous liberals does this include? What's your liberal ideology ?
 
Communists marvi has no idea what she is talking about. Pakistan was created so we can follow the rules of Islam. Not have some communists ruining our day in middle of fast.
 
So the maulvis are irrelevant in Pakistan? Those that have slaughtered tens of thousands, the ones with state protection, the ones who can't be touched even when there are criminal cases against them, the ones that take the law into their own hands, the ones who get elected, the unelected ones who hold forth on legislation, the ones who strut around the streets and barge into any place they so please, they are all irrelevant?
Yeah, it was the liberal mindset which ravaged Pakistan and killed 60,000 Pakistanis. Wasn't it?

There is no scenario, whatsoever, which could even lead to a situation where religious extremism and liberal 'extremism' in Pakistan can be compared. The former mindset has destroyed our country for 3 decades now, killed off tens of thousands Pakistanis and we are still battling that monster in Wazirstan. While all the latter, or as you call it liberal 'fascism', is guilty of is bashing Mullahs every now and then. If that's 'extremism' for you then you need to change your definition on extremism.

Which 'maulvis' killed Pakistanis ? If you're referring to 'Talibans', probably not even 1% finished the first year of their cursus in some madrassa, let alone were 'maulvis' - that's like blaming atheism because of Stalin, Mao Zedong or Pol-Pot.

And again I wasn't criticizing all liberals, they're as irrelevant to Pakistan's problems as are 'mullahs', but the Marvi Sirmed-specific type of 'liberal'.
 
You're getting too worked up on terms . These people are known as liberal fascists because they would condemn a bombing by a so called religious group but then support the carpet bombing of hundreds as a reaction . Obama is seen as a liberal , his hands have more blood on them than the leader of ISIS.

As for the OP both people are a joke . This woman is just poison to Pakistan as a nation, no sympathy for her at all.

What specific carpet bombing?
 
Since liberals are as bad, and as big a threat, and are destroying Pakistan as much as the maulvis are, we must possess, within our ranks, the following:

The liberal Sheerani, holding forth on what anti-liberal legislation passes or not, and watching smugly as politicians cow down before him. This liberal heads a supra constitutional body called the Council for Enforcement of Liberal Ideology, over and above provincial and federal legislature.

The liberal Aziza K, who set up his own little secular state in the capital, used brainwashed kids from Beacon House as human shields, engaged in a gun battle with the state, escaped in a thong and a bikini top on stiletto heels, and now dares the state to touch him.

The liberal Hafiz Saeed, Ishaq and Ludhianvi, who use taxpayers' money and receive state protection to fund their own dastardly liberal agenda.

The liberal Tariq Jamil, who decides which maulvi to convert to the cause, and then pursues them until they give up. He is head honcho of the Liberal Tableegh, who coerce innocent young Pakistanis to leave home to attend three-day hedonistic, bacchanalian love fests.

The Jamaat-e-Liberali, who run the Universities, and infiltrate other parties with their cadres.

Bands of roving liberals, who gather in their hundreds of thousands to demand that Pakistan heed the order of the Norwegians and provide troops to bomb Danish rebels.

The liberals who send mail to certain deviant liberal sects asking them to convert or leave, failing which they would be killed.

Every time a liberal hero assassinates a maulvi governor, liberals who converge at the assassin's secular funeral with secular accouterments like birth control pills, polio vaccines, guitars and Malala's autobiography.

A vast network of liberal academies, who rely on the poverty and despondency of poor Pakistanis to provide recruits, and then train them in such liberal arts as tossing rose petals, the Kama Sutra, and learning how to dance at a Sufi shrine in a haze of marijuana smoke. These academies cannot be reformed by the state.

Liberal militants, who slaughter innocent Pakistanis by the thousands, yet enjoy such support from their sympathizers that the army can't attack them. Only when they killed two hundred innocent maulvis did the army do so, after which they escaped into Rajhastan.

They must all exist. Just because I haven't met them doesn't mean they don't.
 
Which 'maulvis' killed Pakistanis ? If you're referring to 'Talibans', probably not even 1% finished the first year of their cursus in some madrassa, let alone were 'maulvis' - that's like blaming atheism because of Stalin, Mao Zedong or Pol-Pot.

And again I wasn't criticizing all liberals, they're as irrelevant to Pakistan's problems as are 'mullahs', but the Marvi Sirmed-specific type of 'liberal'.

Here we go with the ''No True Mullah'' apologists.
 
Here we go with the ''No True Mullah'' apologists.

I'm not fan of "mullahs", but they get over bashed considering their lack of importance in Pakistan's wider problems, which are more economical than ideological or religious.

And those who killed those Pakistanis have also killed many prominent "mullahs" ; they themselves are rarely "mullahs". Which Taliban has even been qualified as a "legitimate" scholar ? I can't think of many.
 
I hear you, I'm critical of liberal hypocrisy as much as conservative hypocrisy. I want no part of any liberal creed which supports carpet bombing of the tribal areas. Pashtun/tribal lives are just as precious as the life of a Lahori or Karachite.

However the religious right are entrenched in hypocrisy - we see some jamaatis who will cuss the hell outta the West yet send their kids to American universities, maulvis who preach forgiveness and kindness in one speech then next week are raining down insults on Shias and Ahmedis. Or claim Qadri was a courageous hero despite Qadri's best attempts to wriggle out of his deserved justice by sending appeal after appeal to the courts.

I find the latter more disingenous as these maulvis will hide behind Islam to justify their hypocrisy.

I have seen you post this several times and for my own information could you please present a source for this claim because I have heard he said all this stuff about him seeking pardon is made up by people, that he never appealed against the death sentence. Just curious.
 
Pakistan ka matlab kia? Laillah ha ilallah. People really need to respect Ulema-e-Ikram.
 
Warning: Do NOT engage in name-calling, personal attacks on this thread. Think carefully before posting.
 
I'm not fan of "mullahs", but they get over bashed considering their lack of importance in Pakistan's wider problems, which are more economical than ideological or religious.

And those who killed those Pakistanis have also killed many prominent "mullahs" ; they themselves are rarely "mullahs". Which Taliban has even been qualified as a "legitimate" scholar ? I can't think of many.

Agree those mullahs with taliban mindset are aate main namak ke biraaber but well lets blame all of them.
 
Take a look here:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3w1chj

Anyways don't want to start a new discussion on this matter. Thanks for sharing the link.

Weren't you the one praying for him too after his death? Which is mind boggling on its own and reflects the problem in our society. What next, praying for the Peshawar killers?

And here you are again, making him out like some brave gladiator who took death on chest puffed without asking for mercy.
 
If this guy has proven to do 'actual action ' which led to terrorism in Pakistan , why is he on t.v? Otherwise they just both hold extreme ideas .

Obama is seen as a liberal president , yet his forces have killed plenty . Point being people who portray themselves as liberal are really not .

This guy's ilk has led to extremism, I never blamed this specific person, did I? A good example is the CII's ruling on women, in a society already ravaged by honor killings, widespread violence against women and acid attacks. Another good example is the cretin Satraj Aziz who once said killings in the name of Islam in Pakistan should be legalised. This kind of insane rhetoric after tens of thousands of deaths and bomb blasts is simply insane.

I addressed your Obama point above, hence I am not going to dignify that with a response.
 
This guy's ilk has led to extremism, I never blamed this specific person, did I? A good example is the CII's ruling on women, in a society already ravaged by honor killings, widespread violence against women and acid attacks. Another good example is the cretin Satraj Aziz who once said killings in the name of Islam in Pakistan should be legalised. This kind of insane rhetoric after tens of thousands of deaths and bomb blasts is simply insane.

I addressed your Obama point above, hence I am not going to dignify that with a response.

Thanks for clarifying he is innocent of any crime . As for his ilk , there are plenty of liberals whose ilk has led to destruction of nations like Libya & Syria .
 
These useless so called talk shows must be banned, utter trash, in fact all these channels must be banned, we don't need news. There should only be one state controlled TV channel like Iran's Press TV.
 
imagine if this was US Elections and something like this would happen. The voters boost to the other party ufff :hafeez2
 
Thanks for clarifying he is innocent of any crime . As for his ilk , there are plenty of liberals whose ilk has led to destruction of nations like Libya & Syria .

Last time I checked Libya and Syria were not in Pakistan. You're being just like some Indian posters here, bringing up stuff that is not related in any shape or form to this thread.

My posts were specifically in reply to the OP's comment about liberalism in Pakistan. If you're unable to read, comprehend or have general difficulty in understanding basic English then I will take time out of my busy schedule to quote you my specific posts which specifically mention Pakistan (and implore others to stick to Pakistan too).

When we become a superpower and when our...secular...leaders invade other countries and kill thousands then I would be delighted to talk about liberalism and international geo-politik discourse with you.
 
Last time I checked Libya and Syria were not in Pakistan. You're being just like some Indian posters here, bringing up stuff that is not related in any shape or form to this thread.

My posts were specifically in reply to the OP's comment about liberalism in Pakistan. If you're unable to read, comprehend or have general difficulty in understanding basic English then I will take time out of my busy schedule to quote you my specific posts which specifically mention Pakistan (and implore others to stick to Pakistan too).

When we become a superpower and when our...secular...leaders invade other countries and kill thousands then I would be delighted to talk about liberalism and international geo-politik discourse with you.

I was trying to help you think about their mentality which can be seen working effectively in other parts of the world .

This is a woman who believes Pakistan shouldn't have been created . Wasn't it traitors who helped India in 71? I don't know much about the man in this video but if he believes Pakistan should be ruled from a different ideology than it's constitution , they a both extreme & a potential threat to the country . But they are both not criminals. To say at this point one is more dangerous is your opinion & not mine .
 
I was trying to help you think about their mentality which can be seen working effectively in other parts of the world .

This is a woman who believes Pakistan shouldn't have been created . Wasn't it traitors who helped India in 71? I don't know much about the man in this video but if he believes Pakistan should be ruled from a different ideology than it's constitution , they a both extreme & a potential threat to the country . But they are both not criminals. To say at this point one is more dangerous is your opinion & not mine .

Since liberals are as bad, and as big a threat, and are destroying Pakistan as much as the maulvis are, we must possess, within our ranks, the following:

The liberal Sheerani, holding forth on what anti-liberal legislation passes or not, and watching smugly as politicians cow down before him. This liberal heads a supra constitutional body called the Council for Enforcement of Liberal Ideology, over and above provincial and federal legislature.

The liberal Aziza K, who set up his own little secular state in the capital, used brainwashed kids from Beacon House as human shields, engaged in a gun battle with the state, escaped in a thong and a bikini top on stiletto heels, and now dares the state to touch him.

The liberal Hafiz Saeed, Ishaq and Ludhianvi, who use taxpayers' money and receive state protection to fund their own dastardly liberal agenda.

The liberal Tariq Jamil, who decides which maulvi to convert to the cause, and then pursues them until they give up. He is head honcho of the Liberal Tableegh, who coerce innocent young Pakistanis to leave home to attend three-day hedonistic, bacchanalian love fests.

The Jamaat-e-Liberali, who run the Universities, and infiltrate other parties with their cadres.

Bands of roving liberals, who gather in their hundreds of thousands to demand that Pakistan heed the order of the Norwegians and provide troops to bomb Danish rebels.

The liberals who send mail to certain deviant liberal sects asking them to convert or leave, failing which they would be killed.

Every time a liberal hero assassinates a maulvi governor, liberals who converge at the assassin's secular funeral with secular accouterments like birth control pills, polio vaccines, guitars and Malala's autobiography.

A vast network of liberal academies, who rely on the poverty and despondency of poor Pakistanis to provide recruits, and then train them in such liberal arts as tossing rose petals, the Kama Sutra, and learning how to dance at a Sufi shrine in a haze of marijuana smoke. These academies cannot be reformed by the state.

Liberal militants, who slaughter innocent Pakistanis by the thousands, yet enjoy such support from their sympathizers that the army can't attack them. Only when they killed two hundred innocent maulvis did the army do so, after which they escaped into Rajhastan.

They must all exist. Just because I haven't met them doesn't mean they don't..
[MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] covered it better than I ever would have.
 
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These useless so called talk shows must be banned, utter trash, in fact all these channels must be banned, we don't need news. There should only be one state controlled TV channel like Iran's Press TV.

These talkshows are the new form of entertainment for the public and obviously there is demanded for this otherwise no channel would spend so much money on this.
But nothing good comes out of this, they have a cup of tea, make fun of each other and then leave the studio.
 
Hamdullah is Maulana Fazlu's key spokesperson. He took offence to Marvi and other guy's comments that "Maulana Sheerani chars pee k so rahay hain". Hamdullah even said that "hamaray culture main aalim e deen ki gustakhi karnay pe jaan se maar detay hain. Marvi is a feminist and at times goes over the board with her verbal assaults.
In this case though, she didn't say much wrong but this Hamdullah guy proved he belongs to a party of nut cases who have more respect for jali mullahs like Fazlu than a woman or month of Ramzan. The idiot even said "Shohar mat bano" implying that husbands can be violent and disrespectful towards wives but not the other way around.
I am actually quite satisfied that Marvi being a woman got so much support from all around Pakistan and Hamdullah was totally blasted, this follows huge support for Shireen Mazari who was insulted by Khawaja Asif. We are heading in the right direction i believe.
 
We can never get it right.

Either we will have ultra-conservatives, trying to absolve the Mullah mentality of "their despicable behavior" by pointing to other people "Hey she, does the same too"

OR

We will have ultra-liberals who would rather "men and women hold hands" and do "PDA" because that is "liberalism in their mind".

Till, then, Pakistan will continue to struggle in the comity of nations.

Come to think of it, there is increasing tendency towards "psychopathic violence from deeply religious groups" who are frustrated and want "so-called easy path to heaven".

I honestly hope "wife beaters, suicide bombers, and would be religious ITS MY JOB TO ENFORCE LAW TYPES" are condemned to eternal hell.

And similarly, liberals who want, drinking, dancing and womanization culture in Pakistan, should rather look to settle abroad and live a happy life there.
 
Warning: Do NOT engage in name-calling, personal attacks on this thread. Think carefully before posting.

These 2 Marvi and Mullah Hamdullah are calling each other all sort of names.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
These talkshows are the new form of entertainment for the public and obviously there is demanded for this otherwise no channel would spend so much money on this.
But nothing good comes out of this, they have a cup of tea, make fun of each other and then leave the studio.

If Abid Ali still makes the tv shows then you know something is wrong with these channels.
 
I am sorry if you find it offensive but what i mean is that i just don't like these both kinds of extreme mindsets one hiding under the name of religion while the some kind the liberals (not all liberals and i use the term liberal fascist for those few) hiding under the banner of Human Rights Activism and Secularism while both these extreme mindsets working on their own agendas.

Bhai you cannot compare the two. Extremist maulvis and their backers have literally crippled the nation. Liberal activists haven't even got room to breathe.
 
ISLAMABAD: In a significant development, the National Database and Registration Authority (Nadra) has declared Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam-Fazl (JUI-F) leader, ex-minister and former senator Hafiz Hamdullah an alien, alleging that he had ‘fraudulently obtained’ his computerised national identity card (CNIC) that has now been cancelled.

“He is a confirmed Afghan and had used fraudulent means to get Pakistan’s citizenship,” said a senior official while speaking to Dawn on Saturday. His case had been “under scrutiny for years” though the decision was taken on a confirmation report from “sensitive agencies” that he was an alien, the official added.

In his reaction, the JUI-F leader blamed state institutions for his ‘political victimisation’ and said no one in his family, including his father, had ever been accused of being an alien. He said his father was an employee of the education department in 1974 and he had already provided documents to Nadra to prove it.

While the government decision had been taken two weeks ago, it came to the limelight only days before the JUI-F’s Azadi march on Islamabad for which negotiations between the two sides had remained inconclusive till the late hours of Friday night.

A notification issued by the Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority (Pemra), barring TV channels from inviting him to talk shows as a guest, referred to a Nadra letter dated Oct 11.

The senior official said foreigners having Pakistani identity documents had been given two-month amnesty starting from July 1 to surrender their CNICs, with the warning that otherwise they would have to face 14-year imprisonment.

A drive for re-verification of CNICs had been launched across the country after a startling disclosure in 2016 that Afghan Taliban chief Mullah Akhtar Mansoor had fraudulently acquired Pakistani nationality. During the campaign, thousands of dubious CNICs had been blocked.

Mullah Mansoor was killed in an attack on a taxi near Nushki district in Balochistan in May 2016. A Pakistani passport and a CNIC found near the charred wreckage of the taxi, targeted by a remotely-piloted American aircraft, identified him as Wali Mohammad. However, a DNA test later confirmed that the deceased was Mullah Mansoor who had acquired Pakistani CNIC under a fake name.

Pemra’s directive

In a notification issued on Saturday, Pemra directed the TV channels not to air the former senator as he was not a citizen of Pakistan.

Interestingly, there is no law that stops any non-Pakistani from appearing on news or entertainment channels in the country.

The Pemra notification No 13(87)/OPS/2016 signed by G.M. (Operations Broadcast) referred to Nadra’s letter dated Oct 11 that former senator Hamdullah was not a Pakistani.

The notification stated: “Since it is established that the said person is an ‘alien’, therefore all TV channels (News & Current Affairs) are directed to refrain from inviting and projecting Mr Hafiz Hamdullah Saboor in their programmes/ talk shows, news etc.”

Hafiz Hamdullah became health minister of Balochistan in 2002 after being elected to the provincial assembly on a Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA) ticket in the general election. He kept the portfolio till 2005.

Later in March 2012, as a JUI-F candidate he was elected to the upper house of parliament. His tenure as senator ended last year in March.

While talking to Dawn, a senior official of Pemra acknowledged that there was no such law that restricted non-Pakistanis from appearing on Pakistani channels in any news, current affairs or entertainment show, but declined to comment on the rationale behind issuance of the notification.

The JUI-F leader, however, held state institutions responsible for his ‘political victimisation’ and said no one in his family, including his wife and children, had ever been accused of being an alien. He said the entire case was nothing but political victimisation.

“I came to know that my ID card has been blocked in February or March this year and [when] I contacted the local Nadra office, they directed me to approach Nadra head office in Islamabad,” he recalled.

He said he had provided to Nadra several documents including his father’s chequebook issued by the National Bank of Pakistan (NBP) in 1974. “I gave the municipality report related to my birth in Chaman, my father’s chequebook of the National Bank for the year 1974 as my father was an employee of the education department in 1974,” he explained, arguing, “What else should I present?”

He said that senior Nadra officials, including its chairman, informed him that the complaint had been lodged by the “intelligence establishment and the matter could get resolved only from there”.

“Now they want me to go to Kabul or Delhi — this is what Modi is doing with Muslims in Assam,” Hafiz Hamdullah said.

Source: https://www.dawn.com/news/1513157/nadra-cancels-ex-senator-hamdullahs-citizenship.
 
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