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[VIDEOS] Is Babar Azam the best all format batter in the world currently?

Aman said:
We're in very lean on batting if Babar in his current state is the best in all formats.

Hindrance in T20s, quality accumulator in ODIs and decent in Tests.
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I am not sure lean on batting being the reason. Competition for all format batsman was pretty much between Babar and Rizwan, because very few batsman now play all 3 formats and also all games. Between Babar and Rizwan, I will pick Babar.
 
Buffet said:
It's never a fault of batsman if batsman only gets to play at home or only on roads or only against poor bowling units, but cricket fans are going to judge performance based on context and won't hype performance if it's not deserved.

Babar is a top class ODI batsman, but not due to the last 11 innings.
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Tbh I don't watch much of Babar, what I have seen of him he's been a solid accumulator like Kane who holds an end with match winners around him to score quick runs. He's useful in small chases but in big chases you tend to rely on other batsmen to play the impact innings.
 
Buffet said:
I am not sure lean on batting being the reason. Competition for all format batsman was pretty much between Babar and Rizwan, because very few batsman now play all 3 formats and also all games. Between Babar and Rizwan, I will pick Babar.
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Few years back Kohli, AB, Warner, Kane, Smith etc were all class.

Now you can be in this discussion by being world class in one format and being decent in one or two others.
 
I don't think Babar or Rizwan are elite batsmen to warrant the title of best in all formats.

Because of the dearth of performances across format they have gotten in this discussion.

Babar Azam is elite only on name by Pakistanis so far. He needs to dominate the top teams away and ICC tournaments to become an elite batsman which he hasn't done so far.

Pakistani fans have jumped the gun because they're so desperate to have an elite batsmen. It reminds me of our reaction to Kane, the over the top praise for fans and commentators while being behind the likes of Kohli and Smith for long periods.
 
Aman said:
Tbh I don't watch much of Babar, what I have seen of him he's been a solid accumulator like Kane who holds an end with match winners around him to score quick runs. He's useful in small chases but in big chases you tend to rely on other batsmen to play the impact innings.
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He has his limitations like Kane. He can't dictate a high scoring match. He is much safer choice if score is middling one. Still a top class in ODI in Amla's mold. Can't change scoring rate even if it's needed, but scores consistently. Others has to play impact innings in high chase.

In test, he is decent. But a horrible choice for T20 due to same limitations.
 
Aman said:
I don't think Babar or Rizwan are elite batsmen to warrant the title of best in all formats.
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They are not elite by any standard. For that you go to score big in opposition's den or score big on tough surfaces.

Babar couldn't even score big to draw tests on roads at home against good oppositions. He has grand total of 2 tons when playing away. Kane is miles ahead with 12 tons away from home. Babar has a long way to reach to Kane's level let alone Kohli's/Smith's level.
 
Buffet said:
He has his limitations like Kane. He can't dictate a high scoring match. He is much safer choice if score is middling one. Still a top class in ODI in Amla's mold. Can't change scoring rate even if it's needed, but scores consistently. Others has to play impact innings in high chase.

In test, he is decent. But a horrible choice for T20 due to same limitations.
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He reminds me so much of Kane.

Rather than comparing him to Kohli, he should really be compared to Kane.

Kohli at present may be done but at his best was a different level to Kane and Babar.
 
Buffet said:
They are not elite by any standard. For that you go to score big in opposition's den or score big on tough surfaces.

Babar couldn't even score big to draw tests on roads at home against good oppositions. He has grand total of 2 tons when playing away. Kane is miles ahead with 12 tons away from home. Babar has a long way to reach to Kane's level let alone Kohli's/Smith's level.
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It is akin to Amla in 2010-11. In under an year scored scored a lot of centuries, fifties. During that 10 month period where he rose to no.1 ranking this was the stat Look at the guys in the list. Multiple MOM awards, MOS awards. But he did it for a longer period


Screenshot-2023-01-10-190956.jpg
 
Aman said:
He reminds me so much of Kane.

Rather than comparing him to Kohli, he should really be compared to Kane.

Kohli at present may be done but at his best was a different level to Kane and Babar.
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More of Kane.He reminds me of Hashim Amla who had scored deadly hundreads ,but keep on missing in 2nd innings when team needed the most. They play freely when pressure not there on them.
 
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He is in Amla mould in LOIs and Kane in Tests. Nothing wrong with that but not comparable to the likes of Kohli, Smith, de Villiers or Root.
 
Ab Fan said:
He is in Amla mould in LOIs and Kane in Tests. Nothing wrong with that but not comparable to the likes of Kohli, Smith, de Villiers or Root.
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He’s significantly better than Smith or Root ever were in ODI’s or T20. Significantly higher average at a better strike rate in both formats.
 
Aman said:
He reminds me so much of Kane.

Rather than comparing him to Kohli, he should really be compared to Kane.

Kohli at present may be done but at his best was a different level to Kane and Babar.
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Kane can only dream of averaging 55+ in ODIs.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Kane can only dream of averaging 55+ in ODIs.
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Babar can only dream of leading his team to the WC Final and winning the POT or leading his team to a WTC.

Think all Kiwis would take that over an average of 55 heavily built on scoring soft runs in JAMODIs and stat padding on roads and weak attacks.
 
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Ab Fan said:
He is in Amla mould in LOIs and Kane in Tests. Nothing wrong with that but not comparable to the likes of Kohli, Smith, de Villiers or Root.
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True, he's closer to Amla than Kane in ODIs. Both never really scored runs in the big moments.
 
Aman said:
Babar can only dream of leading his team to the WC Final and winning the POT or leading his team to a WTC.

Think all Kiwis would take that over an average of 55 heavily built on scoring soft runs in JAMODIs and stat padding on roads and weak attacks.
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To be fair, Williamson winning the player of the tournament in the 2019 World Cup was a scandalous decision.

We all know the best player of the World Cup was Stokes & by some distance. Williamson at best had a strong case of being the distant number two but even that is debatable.

Stokes was robbed off the award & Williamson was gifted the award as a compensation for the way New Zealand lost the final. Had they lost under normal circumstances, Stokes would have won the award & rightly so.
 
The stats obsessed generation who look at numbers alone have ruined cricket.

No idea of impact and quality.

They'd point you to numbers when if you actually watched the batsmen, you;d see they're more of a detriment to the team than an asset (Babar in T20s).
 
Mamoon said:
To be fair, Williamson winning the player of the tournament in the 2019 World Cup was a scandalous decision.

We all know the best player of the World Cup was Stokes & by some distance. Williamson at best had a strong case of being the distant number two but even that is debatable.

Stokes was robbed off the award & Williamson was gifted the award as a compensation for the way New Zealand lost the final. Had they lost under normal circumstances, Stokes would have won the award & rightly so.
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Regardless, he scored in the WT20 and guided his country to their first world championship.

Kane would have won the award if NZ won, we basically lost a WC on some ** rule which made no sense.
 
And just so you know - what you do in WCs and international tournaments is a lot more important than the billion runs you score on flat high ways. These games are all warm up games for the big dance.

Once you've experienced multiple WC Finals, you realize how insignificant all these bilateral series are.

I've started to understand why the Aussies don't give a damn about them (ODI series).
 
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Aman said:
And just so you know - what you do in WCs and international tournaments is a lot more important than the billion runs you score on flat high ways. These games are all warm up games for the big dance.

Once you've experienced multiple WC Finals, you realize how insignificant all these bilateral series are.

I've started to understand why the Aussies don't give a damn about them (ODI series).
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In football terms they are like international friendlies.
 
SamNJ said:
In football terms they are like international friendlies.
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Pretty much.

Over time I've started to lose interest in them and see them more as an opportunity to watch new players and get a squad together for ICC events.

I use to be baffled by how little Aussies cared about ODI series, but they've won 5 WCs so it makes sense that these games would mean nothing. It's only the WC that matters.
 
Aman said:
Regardless, he scored in the WT20 and guided his country to their first world championship.

Kane would have won the award if NZ won, we basically lost a WC on some ** rule which made no sense.
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Have to agree to disagree on this. If the freak overthrow did not happen in the last over & New Zealand would have won, Stokes would still have won the player of the tournament award.

Williamson would have won had he played a big knock in the final & Stokes failed.

Handing Williamson the award was an emotional reaction to the events of the final & it was wrong in my opinion.

Nevertheless, although Williamson does get overrated as a batsman quite a bit, but there is no doubt he has played some great knocks under pressure across formats & is an excellent captain. Babar so far has been found wanting on both fronts.
 
Aman said:
Babar can only dream of leading his team to the WC Final and winning the POT or leading his team to a WTC.

Think all Kiwis would take that over an average of 55 heavily built on scoring soft runs in JAMODIs and stat padding on roads and weak attacks.
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Kohli is the ultimate Jamodi basher and mediocre in tournaments, speaking of odis strictly.

Babar's very 1st wc was better than any Kohli has played and he has played 3.

Food for thought for your line of thinking.
 
Marooned said:
Kohli is the ultimate Jamodi basher and mediocre in tournaments, speaking of odis strictly.

Babar's very 1st wc was better than any Kohli has played and he has played 3.

Food for thought for your line of thinking.
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It's true, Kohli has failed come the big moments as well - and you can make a case for Kane being better, but that's a discussion I don't really want to get into. It's tricky assessing it because you're comparing like 20 centuries to 50. If Kane does outperform Kohli in this year's WC, you could probably make a good case for it though.

But Kohli has scored runs in Tests all over the world and is a much better T20 batsmen. On those fronts he has Kane beat.
 
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Aman said:
Babar can only dream of leading his team to the WC Final and winning the POT or leading his team to a WTC.

Think all Kiwis would take that over an average of 55 heavily built on scoring soft runs in JAMODIs and stat padding on roads and weak attacks.
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Good to know that your definition of success is coming second place in a World Cup final. To most other people, that doesn't qualify as success. Also, last I checked WTC stood for World Test Championship, not World ODI Championship.

Think all Kiwis would take that over an average of 55 heavily built on scoring soft runs in JAMODIs and stat padding on roads and weak attacks.

This line would be funny and meaningful if New Zealand's only bilateral series wins since the last World Cup weren't against Scotland, Ireland, Netherlands, Bangladesh (twice), West Indies and India C.
 
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Aman said:
It's true, Kohli has failed come the big moments as well - and you can make a case for Kane being better, but that's a discussion I don't really want to get into. It's tricky assessing it because you're comparing like 20 centuries to 50. If Kane does outperform Kohli in this year's WC, you could probably make a good case for it though.

But Kohli has scored runs in Tests all over the world and is a much better T20 batsmen. On those fronts he has Kane beat.
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Let's not mix formats. Kohli's legend is built on his odis prowess, and it's in this format he has failed cometh the hour.

Whatever way we slice it it's a huge negative against him.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Good to know that your definition of success is coming second place in a World Cup final. To most other people, that doesn't qualify as success. Also, last I checked WTC stood for World Test Championship, not World ODI Championship.

Think all Kiwis would take that over an average of 55 heavily built on scoring soft runs in JAMODIs and stat padding on roads and weak attacks.

This line would be funny and meaningful if New Zealand's only bilateral series wins since the last World Cup weren't against Scotland, Ireland, Netherlands, Bangladesh (twice), West Indies and India C.
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Like I care but we've done in JAMODIs since the WC.

We've made 2 WC Finals in consecutive WCs. For a country like NZ where cricket isn't one of the top sports, it's incredible accomplishment.

As for the Test championship, this thread is about Babar across formats. Babar has yet to prove anything on the world stage, across formats.

It's why a lot don't consider him an elite batsmen like Pakistanis.
 
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Marooned said:
Let's not mix formats. Kohli's legend is built on his odis prowess, and it's in this format he has failed cometh the hour.

Whatever way we slice it it's a huge negative against him.
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I'm one of Kohli's biggest critics when it comes to his ability to score in international tournaments, but he's been basically dubbed the "GOAT" in ODIs and if I were to suggest Kane is better given his career stats, I would offend many and get into needless arguments. And in that instance you could argue his sheer numbers trumps Kanes edge in world tournaments. Another WC where Kane shows up and Kohli doesn't and it becomes something the other side would at least consider, for me it would cement it for me.
 
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Aman said:
Like I care but we've done in JAMODIs since the WC.

We've made 2 WC Finals in consecutive WCs. For a country like NZ where cricket isn't one of the top sports, it's incredible accomplishment.

As for the Test championship, this thread is about Babar across formats. Babar has yet to prove anything on the world stage, across formats.

It's why a lot don't consider him an elite batsmen like Pakistanis.
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Well then you shouldn't have made JAMODIs the center of your argument. Because all New Zealand has done in the last 3 years is beat minnows. Fact is, ICC ODI tournaments take place once every 2-4 years. And despite playing in just 2 ICC ODI tournaments, Babar has already played quite a few consequential, match-winning knocks. You should know, the most consequential one came against your team in the World Cup.

Like I said, losing a final means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. There are no prizes for coming second place. This is the same as when Pakistani posters here boast about Pakistan making the Asia Cup and WT20 finals. Doesn't mean a damn thing. Have also gotten pretty tired of this "we are a small country argument". At the end of the day, cricket is a sport played between 11 men from both teams, not millions of people. And your small population gives you alot of benefits too that developing countries don't have.

I don't think that Kane Williamson's soft runs in Tests is a can of worms you want to open. And while Babar may not be on Kane's level in tests, he has been a far better batsman than him for a couple of years now and is also much higher ranked than him in all formats. Which is also why most people consider him an elite batsman and mention him in the same breath as Smith, Kohli, Root and Williamson these days.
 
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RedwoodOriginal said:
Well then you shouldn't have made JAMODIs the center of your argument. Because all New Zealand has done in the last 3 years is beat minnows. Fact is, ICC ODI tournaments take place once every 2-4 years. And despite playing in just 2 ICC ODI tournaments, Babar has already played quite a few consequential, match-winning knocks. You should know, the most consequential one came against your team in the World Cup.

Like I said, losing a final means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. There are no prizes for coming second place. This is the same as when Pakistani posters here boast about Pakistan making the Asia Cup and WT20 finals. Doesn't mean a damn thing. Have also gotten pretty tired of this "we are a small country argument". At the end of the day, cricket is a sport played between 11 men from both teams, not millions of people. And your small population gives you alot of benefits too that developing countries don't have.

I don't think that Kane Williamson's soft runs in Tests is a can of worms you want to open. And while Babar may not be on Kane's level in tests, he has been a far better batsman than him for a couple of years now and is also much higher ranked than him in all formats. Which is also why most people consider him an elite batsman and mention him in the same breath as Smith, Kohli, Root and Williamson these days.
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Kane's soft runs in Tests? He's played plenty of match winning knocks for us - either when need to save a match, win a world title, dominated a series in Aus, secured a series win in the UAE etc.
 
Kohli and Kane are not elite batsmen today in any format. Neither have really dominated in years.

Considered it on reputation and past performances.
 
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Aman said:
Kohli and Kane are not elite batsmen today in any format. Neither have really dominated in years.

Considered it on reputation and past performances.
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trying to drag kohli along with kane hahaha. kohli's bat will give a fitting response.
 
Aman said:
Kane's soft runs in Tests? He's played plenty of match winning knocks for us - either when need to save a match, win a world title, dominated a series in Aus, secured a series win in the UAE etc.
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Almost half of his runs have come in New Zealand. He averages 33 in India, 30 in England, 26 in Sri Lanka, 21 in South Africa. The only oppositions he has truly dominated are West Indies, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. And the only major away series that he has won was the one in UAE. So yeah, I'd say he is the king of soft runs.

There was a time when I was a big fan of him. In certain respects I still am. But as hard as it is for me to admit, the simple fact is that he has failed to reach the heights of the other three: Kohli, Root and Smith. Even with the wretched last two years that Kohli has had, he still has a vastly superior and more successful test career to Williamson.

A great player and a Kiwi legend. But that's about it.
 
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RedwoodOriginal said:
Almost half of his runs have come in New Zealand. He averages 33 in India, 30 in England, 26 in Sri Lanka, 21 in South Africa. The only oppositions he has truly dominated are West Indies, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. So yeah, I'd say he is the king of soft runs.

There was a time when I was a big fan of him. In certain respects I still am. But as hard as it is for me to admit, the simple fact is that he has failed to reach the heights of the other three: Kohli, Root and Smith. Even with the wretched last two years that Kohli has had, he still has a vastly superior and more successful test career to Williamson.

A great player and a Kiwi legend. But that's about it.
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He's had series where he has dominated away.

Lack of consistency and overall average record in those countries is why the likes of Smith, Kohli and Root are ahead.
 
Aman said:
Maybe against Afghanistan, SL and Zimbabwe with nothing on the line or a road.
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i mean he has recently played one of the best ever, if not the best, T20I knocks against PAK in WT20 in AUS but whatever. you can wish for him to fail against afg, sl and zim too, nobody is stopping. his bat will answer again and people need to find new excuses again.
 
Marooned said:
Tells us dussen is no. 2, Imam no. 3.
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Is Imam truly world no.3? it tells you the kind of opposition he plays against. Also lot of noobs like Shreyas Iyer, Gill have to have longer samples to break into top rankings despite playing more away matches than Babar. Babar including Holland, played 6 away matches during that "11 innings run" averaging 66 at strike rate of 92. During the same period Gill played 11 matches averaging 93 at strike rate of 104. Imam Ul Haq during the same period played 5 awa matches scored 65 runs at an average of 13 with a strike rate of 61.90.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Is Imam truly world no.3? it tells you the kind of opposition he plays against. Also lot of noobs like Shreyas Iyer, Gill have to have longer samples to break into top rankings despite playing more away matches than Babar. Babar including Holland, played 6 away matches during that "11 innings run" averaging 66 at strike rate of 92. During the same period Gill played 11 matches averaging 93 at strike rate of 104. Imam Ul Haq during the same period played 5 awa matches scored 65 runs at an average of 13 with a strike rate of 61.90.
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That makes no sense than I want kohlis ranking and average changed as most of his runs are against Sri Lanka and West Indies as India play them the most at home . That would be having two different rankings for away and home that makes no sense
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Imam is no.3, vander dussen no.2 What does that tell you?
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That they have both done really well in ODIs on a consistent basis. You might be unaware of the rest of the cricketing world but the rest of us know how well Imam has done in this format for the last 5 years. He averages 50 or 50+ against every opposition except India and New Zealand.

van der Dussen on the other hand has been an incredible ODI player ever since he debuted against Pakistan 4 years ago. He averaged 70 in his first series and he averages 69 right now.
 
And these are called "soft runs" - scoring at a 55-60 rate leaving others to slog out and get out while Babar happily pads his stats without intent. Pathetic!!
 
Will the Najam Sethi administration put some heat on this over rated cricketer?
 
Just seems to be batting for a 100 today irrespective of the result.
 
*No other Pakistani Batsmen scores over 28 runs*
Wow why did Babar Azam not score 170 runs off of 70 balls and win the game?
 
Never took initiative to go for the win today. Poor batting by Babar today. It appeared he just wanted to remain not out and improve his average.
 
A nothing innings by the most selfish batsman in the world. [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] would have been distributing mithai had Kohli played this innings today.
 
He was hoping the tail would stick around so he could get his 25 runs remaining for his 100 and remain not out - unfortunately, luck eventually caught up with the "best batter across all formats" (massive lol) and he got stumped.
 
One thing is for certain.


If Sarfraz gets his 70s, he will get them at a 90 to 130 SR.

He would have won many matches that Babar lost for us.
 
Mamoon said:
A nothing innings by the most selfish batsman in the world. [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] would have been distributing mithai had Kohli played this innings today.
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I can't imagine Kohli playing like this even today let alone at his peak.
 
The usual bandwagoners are in hiding today and will surface when this blows away. Like some acknowledge he's a good batsman, but let's just leave it at that, obviously as we can see rankings are not an indication of impact.
 
Seriously … it wasn’t a challenging total and what does the “best all format” batter do coming in at #3? ….plays a selfish defensive innings where he doesn’t even attempt to shepherd the team to a win … pathetic.

Think Babar fans are going to go “He is still young and he will learn from this..” but don’t think it is going to convince anyone else
 
charlie007 said:
The usual bandwagoners are in hiding today and will surface when this blows away. Like some acknowledge he's a good batsman, but let's just leave it at that, obviously as we can see rankings are not an indication of impact.
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I think most of us here agree he is a very good batsman. But claims like "he is better than others by a country mile" is what draws criticism
 
He is definitely a top contender for the best all format batsman as of now but that tells us that after the fab 4s decline
, standards of all format batting are at an all time low.


Conway also deserves a shout out, he is definitely another contender for best in the world.
 
Been saying that Babar is stat padder. Today game is the perfect example of that...He only bother about his personal runs...not required run to get. Last test series because of sarfraz they drew else they would have lost it.
 
Babar is an absolute class. He does not have that natural striking ability and talent to single handily win games that someone like Inzamam had. But due to his work ethic, I think he will go down as greatest Pakistani batsman ever. The only thing missing in his armour is sweep shot due to which he struggles against spin sometimes on a turning track.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
That was in response to his claim "He is "miles better" than others". No he is not. Imam ul haq has performed equally well with better strike rate. We have to take these 'bilaterals' against under-strength teams with a pinch of salt not using them to make tall claims.
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He is miles better than others.with a better strike rate I think you need to double check that.
 
shamaan said:
He is miles better than others.with a better strike rate I think you need to double check that.
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No he is not. Today it was proven. Dashun Shanaka with 202/8 added 100 runs with last batsman with no.11 not going to come up only yesterday. Babar on the other hand left all the strike to tailenders.
 
shamaan said:
He is miles better than others.with a better strike rate I think you need to double check that.
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By the way Babar's strike rate is not even more than Imam ul haq in the matches they played together. Imam 93. Babar 89 in the last one year.
 
He is the best batsman in the world in one day and Test cricket. He is Pakistan`s best batsman in T20 cricket.
 
Buffet said:
Not sure what point you are arguing here?

Kohli average of 60 came on turning tracks where 9-10 batsmen are not scoring runs for fun. It came on pitches where visiting teams are not scoring runs for fun. Kohli has plenty of dominating away series with multiple tons against good bowling units. Not the case with Babar.

There is a good reason no one even speculated that Kohli ordered flat pitches in India to boost his average. It may not be true, but commentators and fans are asking this questions from Babar based on something. Labuschagne is not a captain and irrelevant here.
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I think your confused I didn't say Kohli doesn't have multiple tons away and is a much better.

So only captains are irrelevant okay.
 
Babar got want he wanted today. Took his average to 60.11

He now averages more than 60 in ODI cricket.

Wins are an afterthought in this Pakistan team.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
By the way Babar's strike rate is not even more than Imam ul haq in the matches they played together. Imam 93. Babar 89 in the last one year.
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So you are Jerry picking stats.Imaam ul Haq best strike rate 94 in all years Babar Azam best strike rate 108

Altogether strike rate babar azam 89
Imaam ul haq strike rate 82
 
shamaan said:
So you are Jerry picking stats.Imaam ul Haq best strike rate 94 in all years Babar Azam best strike rate 108

Altogether strike rate babar azam 89
Imaam ul haq strike rate 82
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In current form Imam has done well in most of the matches that Babar did well. If he is better than everyone by country mile shouldn't he be better than Imam? I picked only the matches they played together in order to be fair in the last one year. So there is no real evidence he is country miles better than his own team mates let alone players from other countries.
 
Another good knock today on a very scrappy pitch where the 2nd highest of team was 28*. Unbelievable grit. Shame no one was able to provide him a good partnereship. Reason why he is the best batter of the world currently. Reminds of Tendulkar era tbh, where all the other batters were slightly older than him (Lara, Anwar, Inzi). What a consistent performer. Also that stump out was a little shady too.
 
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