heddie19
Local Club Regular
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Runs
- 1,435
The last time babar played a test away against a proper side is more than 3 years ago.
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I missed the could have part sorry, am a bit tired today lol.That is what I meant from "could've" because he is retiring. I expected better from you.
I don't disagree with your era para but what about Lara, Ponting, Hayden, Sangakkara and De Villiers? Missing out so many greats not just Babar.
Eh, don't think babar will ever catch up.Wasim Akram:
"It is a very difficult decision, that is why I don't become a selector. I'll probably get a lot of slack back home, but I will definitely pick Virat Kohli over Babar Azam. Babar is on the way, there is no doubt. He is one of the modern greats, but it will take some time. He will catch up, but it will take time"
Fair assessment?
Lara and Pointing are slightly below Kohli tier, their not am entire tier Below him, but their slightly below.That is what I meant from "could've" because he is retiring. I expected better from you.
I don't disagree with your era para but what about Lara, Ponting, Hayden, Sangakkara and De Villiers? Missing out so many greats not just Babar.
Thread is all format best batsman. All format best batsmen are expected to score heavily in opposition den. If they have not played then they have not scored.The last time babar played a test away against a proper side is more than 3 years ago. Please stop showing your mental caliber here and do some research before posting absurd stats.
I don't think Gill will surpass kohli, just saying.Indian transition usually coincides. Only time it didn't coincide was when Sachin took over from Sunny. Sunny -> Sachin -> Kohli -> Gill
Ofcourse he won't. Cricketing landscape has changed. ODIs have reduced significantly. It is going to be a balance between T20 and ODI. So he is not going to replicate that. This is going to be a different kind of legacy for sure. Kohli absolutely dominated both ODIs and T20s equally well.I don't think Gill will surpass kohli, just saying.
Maybe he'll > Kohli stats wise cause the guy already has 9 international centuries but I've seen kohli chase 28 of 8 lol.
Big big shoes to fill to surpass the king of chasing
Ofcourse he won't. Cricketing landscape has changed. ODIs have reduced significantly. It is going to be a balance between T20 and ODI. So he is not going to replicate that. This is going to be a different kind of legacy for sure. Kohli absolutely dominated both ODIs and T20s equally well.
IMO sachin was also gr8 chaser, give just 2 examplesI'm aware it's changed but imo kohli is the most complete batter India has ever produced even more so then Sachin.
People who argue for Sachin has the excuse that he faced much much tougher bowlers in the ball tampering and one ball era.
But kohli is 100x superior when it comes to game awareness and being a solid all format batter, test + odi + t20, where Sachin didn't play t20 beyond franchise.
Idk who's superior but I do know kohli is > When it comes to chasing and dominating atleast. Sachin is likely overall better though.
Gill filling the shoes will be tough, but Gill is defo the next era.
Sachin carried the burden of a billion hopes all alone for a decade. He transformed the game like no other. We will never know if kohli or anyone can match that level of expectation ever.IMO sachin was also gr8 chaser, give just 2 examples
1) 1998 Ind Vs Aus final in Coca Cola cup.. sachin scored 134 runs in 131 balls.. India won Coca Cola cup
2) 2003 India V/s. Pakistan at Centurion… sachin scored 98 runs… India won the match…
In Sachin’s era, our batting wasn’t strong as it is today.. when sachin gets out ppls switching off their TVs… there was huge pressure on sachin while batting…whereas Virat is having less pressure due to strong batting lineup.
1998 was a goat performance.IMO sachin was also gr8 chaser, give just 2 examples
1) 1998 Ind Vs Aus final in Coca Cola cup.. sachin scored 134 runs in 131 balls.. India won Coca Cola cup
2) 2003 India V/s. Pakistan at Centurion… sachin scored 98 runs… India won the match…
In Sachin’s era, our batting wasn’t strong as it is today.. when sachin gets out ppls switching off their TVs… there was huge pressure on sachin while batting…whereas Virat is having less pressure due to strong batting lineup.
If that’s the logic for Sachin then Kohli hasn’t played a single great inning coz Rauf is a nothing bowler even against end of ropes Wasim Waqar.1998 was a goat performance.
2003, the problem with 2003, is that waqar, wasim were at the end of their ropes. Great innings but it wasn't prime wasim he faced nor prime waqar. Waqar by 2003 was frustratingly bowling short non stop and getting tonked and had lost a bit of pace.
Brother stop attacking me on every post and thread relentlessly.If that’s the logic for Sachin then Kohli hasn’t played a single great inning coz Rauf is a nothing bowler even against end of ropes Wasim Waqar.
Also remember Shoaib was still a huge threat in 2003.
Gill, Harry Brook, Bewald Brewis that African T20 monster Gonna dominate this decade.You think Gill will lead the next era once kohli era ends? Likely kohli era is ending 2027. I think 2027 is the end for kohli, but I do see him playing till 2027 because the dude is mad fit.
Sikander Raza is a good all-rounder. Knockout chokin crown will be passed to Gill? Well, let gill score half of the runs Babar scored in England WC and then you may talk like thisNo one cares about individual awards in cricket because it doesn’t take so many things into account just like player ranking system doesn’t.
It is not like the Ballon D’or in football. Not even close.
Sikandar Raza was also nominee last year and he plays 99% of his matches against associate teams.
Babar era never started and never will. Kohli will pass the crown to Gill.
The remaining 4,5 tiers must be on your roof where you and your younger brother play bat/ball.Eh, don't think babar will ever catch up.
Only person to have ever come close to kohli in the past decade since he started playing was de villers and Sangakara.
But both Sangakara and de villers aren't = Kohli, their comfortably a tier below him, which is still impressive considering players like babar, Williamson, Smith are atkeast 4 to 5 tiers below kohli.
Raza just played a blinder of an innings and single handedly helped Zimbabwe chase 200 in t20 against Namibia todaySikander Raza is a good all-rounder. Knockout chokin crown will be passed to Gill? Well, let gill score half of the runs Babar scored in England WC and then you may talk like this![]()
No their in the dug out filled with babar's tears and his choclate cake left overs.The remaining 4,5 tiers must be on your roof where you and your younger brother play bat/ball.
Rohit Sharma has also played 28 away Tests with only 2 Test away centuries.Thread is all format best batsman. All format best batsmen are expected to score heavily in opposition den. If they have not played then they have not scored.
Anyway, Babar has played 28 away tests with grand total of 2 away tons. That includes all kinds of oppositions. In the nest 28 away test, he will have to get 8-10 tons to get his count in double digit.
He is not considered a good test batsman for this exact same reason. He is at the same level as Babar in test and no one says Rohit is some gun test batsman. Rohit is only considered gun batsman in ODI format.Rohit Sharma has also played 28 away Tests with only 2 Test away centuries.
What's your point?
Babar is a very fine batsman. The best batsman Pakistan has produced in a very long time and that itself is a cause for celebration.
Babar’s biggest enemies are not his critics but his cult fan base who forced him into comparisons with a batsman who belongs in the upper pantheons of batting greats next to Tendulkar, Sir Viv, Lara and Ponting.
There are great batsmen and then there are batsmen like Kohli. It isn’t Babar’s fault that he is not in his league and never will be simply because he doesn’t have the same gift.
Babar should have never been compared to him. He didn’t ask for this comparison. Instead, he was forced into it and now he is suffering because he is losing a battle he can never win.
Babar’s brand was built to rival Kohli. He was given the ”King” moniker and he was constantly compared to Kohli by misusing statistics “fastest to XYZ runs”, “beat Kohli’s record” etc. that ignored obvious context.
All that PR and artificially generated hype is going to damage Babar’s legacy and it has already started. He would have faced a lot less scrutiny for the same output if this narrative of him being better than Kohli didn’t exist in the first place.
In that case, Babar’s performances in the upcoming Australia tour will be a good benchmark of his progression in test cricket.He is not considered a good test batsman for this exact same reason. He is at the same level as Babar in test and no one says Rohit is some gun test batsman. Rohit is only considered gun batsman in ODI format.
Babar is never going to be gun in ODI but I think he can improve in test and be really good for Pakistan when playing away. There is no pressure or skills needed to hit big in test. He should be scoring heavily on non-turning away tracks.
I would like to see him score when match is alive. Other batsmen from Pakistan has been outbattling him in away series. He needs to be the main scoring person and get 1-2 draws by batting big. Winning may be hard, but getting a draw shouldn't be hard. He just needs to step up and score big. Pakistan has actually batted reasonably well in Aus in recent times.In that case, Babar’s performances in the upcoming Australia tour will be a good benchmark of his progression in test cricket.
Rohit Sharma has also played 28 away Tests with only 2 Test away centuries.
What's your point?
That is why i say never make local a selector. Wasim Khan was best in this regard.Never seen a batsman who is good against pace but goof against spin the difference is glaring
"Babar and Rizwan have issues playing in spin... Sarfraz over Rizwan"That is why i say never make local a selector. Wasim Khan was best in this regard.
When you select the team you see pros and cons of every players. Babar and Rizwan both have issue playing spin and in Asia track we will lost to every mid core team because our main batsman cannot play spin. That is why i wanted Sarfarz over Rizwan and Harris Sohail over Muhammad Harris in the squad.
Babar vs pace is also an exaggeration. Last year Mark Wood made him look like a tailender with his 95 mph thunderbolts in the T20I series.Never seen a batsman who is good against pace but goof against spin the difference is glaring
How many times did Wood get him out ?Babar vs pace is also an exaggeration. Last year Mark Wood made him look like a tailender with his 95 mph thunderbolts in the T20I series.
Wood played 2 out of 7 matches and got Babar out for single digit scores on both occasions.How many times did Wood get him out ?
Abdul Razzaq on Babar Azam's innings against Afghanistan said:
“As I said earlier, how can you be number one in the world when you cannot hit a straight six? Have a look at Babar's balance and shot on a delivery on which he got out, and who was the bowler? It was Noor Ahmed who was making his debut, and it was not a delivery to get out on. Every delivery has its importance, and you have scored 74 runs on 92 balls. This difference of 3 overs cost us the match against Afghanistan. Had Shadab and Iftikhar faced more balls, we could have scored more runs.”
It is good to see Razzaq have to eat his words.
Straight 6 hit.
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Yes I'm sure he's waiting to post this statement on twitter. Can't wait for theHe is going through a rough patch for his standards, too much pressure + controversy, yet he has 4 50-plus scores in this WC. Truly speaks about his stature, how big of a player he is.
What standards? All the 'standards' you are speaking of has been showed so far against B and C sides in bilaterals. This WC he is playing full strength sides, and has shown his quality.He is going through a rough patch for his standards, too much pressure + controversy, yet he has 4 50-plus scores in this WC. Truly speaks about his stature, how big of a player he is.
That's because of the bowling attack we have now compared to the joke of a bowling attack we had till around 2002/03.Look guys , here is my perspective as an Indian . Babar Azam is a batsman I love to watch, probably as much as Gill . His balance at the crease ,his cover drive , his elegance , timing are all beautiful .
But as an Indian fan , does he get me worried when he walks in to bat against us? The answer is a big no . I remember having nightmares about even Ijaz Ahmad who really was a very ordinary batsman technically , but morphed into a monster when he saw India .
Babar is mentally soft , and I still haven’t seen him play one knock to turn around a crucial match . FZ , however hacky he is , gets me far more worried
2002/03 we were atleast ok, Ijaz was a menace against V prassad, Kuruvilla etcThat's because of the bowling attack we have now compared to the joke of a bowling attack we had till around 2002/03.
To be honest, any one dimensional hack could have scored runs against guys like Venkatesh Prasad, Abbey Kuruvilla, Sunil Joshi, Sairaj Bahutule, Dodda Ganesh, Harvinder Singh, Rajesh Chauhan, Venkatpati Raju, Debashish Mohanty, and others in the long line of imbeciles who played as bowlers for India in the 90's.2002/03 we were atleast ok, Ijaz was a menace against V prassad, Kuruvilla etc
Partly true . But I think there is more to it than just that . For example , I am already worried about Rachin Ravindra / Williamson playing a blinder in the SF against us .That's because of the bowling attack we have now compared to the joke of a bowling attack we had till around 2002/03.
Too be fair to babar I have observed and watched him for some time now.
He has 2 great shots, the cover drive and that flick on leg side to inswing.
The issue with babar is his lack or ability to come forward, the lack of ability to play innovative shots like the sweep or paddle scoop and his lack of ability to utilise the back foot.
It's why he's so garbo at playing the pull shot, why he gets out lbw, caught behind or catch out of a spinner pitches the ball at good length and why he gets bowled when trying to cut the ball.
All these shots require the backfoot, and babar's backfoot is non existent.
B to c string bowlers keep over pitching or bowling half trackers like ish sodhi etc.
I've seen Bobby make a statement this world cupWatch Babar make a statement with Gabba century. I dare you would not talk about his backfoot again. Such is the command. You probably haven't seen this innings as it is against your A string bowling attack![]()
A more apt comparison would be Kallis in the same tournament. While Shoaib had insane hype & made some controversial remarks, he didn't have any such crap of "number 1", "goat", record breaker etc associated with him. Remember despite all the hype & expectations he was still not the biggest star of the side, the W's grabbed more limelight than him.The 2023 World Cup is for Babar Azam what 2003 WC was for Shoaib Akhtar
Remember the insane hype over Shoaib Akhtar before the 2003 WC. He was supposed to lead Pakistan to glory. He even made big statements like how he did not care about Indian batters. And then Centurion happened & Shoaib's image took a huge beating among his own fans. After the WC many fans started calling him out for his arrogance & prima donna attitude & started questioning his lack of discipline & focus
Babar is now going through the same phase - although to be fair he is lot more disciplined & humble than Shoaib. But people are definitely questioning his inability to deliver on the big stage
The 2023 World Cup is for Babar Azam what 2003 WC was for Shoaib Akhtar
Remember the insane hype over Shoaib Akhtar before the 2003 WC. He was supposed to lead Pakistan to glory. He even made big statements like how he did not care about Indian batters. And then Centurion happened & Shoaib's image took a huge beating among his own fans. After the WC many fans started calling him out for his arrogance & prima donna attitude & started questioning his lack of discipline & focus
Babar is now going through the same phase - although to be fair he is lot more disciplined & humble than Shoaib. But people are definitely questioning his inability to deliver on the big stage
Fans will say the no 1 batsmen in the world is not a six hitter it isn't his natural gameBabar Azam is his entire ODI career (114 innings) has hit 60 SIXES.
Rohit Sharma this year in 2023 alone in 24 ODI's so far (24 innings) has hit 60 SIXES.
His home average is 71 and away average is 37.In December 2022, Babar Azam’s Test average was at its highest of 49.25.
His loss of form and lack of runs has meant that his average now stands at 46.13 – a remarkable drop of 3.12 runs in the space of just over a year.
In December 2022, Babar Azam’s Test average was at its highest of 49.25.
His loss of form and lack of runs has meant that his average now stands at 46.13 – a remarkable drop of 3.12 runs in the space of just over a year.
So , where was the century in Australia again?Watch Babar make a statement with Gabba century. I dare you would not talk about his backfoot again. Such is the command. You probably haven't seen this innings as it is against your A string bowling attack![]()
The Gabba you indians keep whining about for Pant and Gill, who have never scored a century thereSo , where was the century in Australia again?
The Gabba you indians keep whining about for Pant and Gill, who have never scored a century there
This tour that tour what even. You did not win this worldcup or that worldcup, or the worldcup before that, or even the CT before that, or the WC before that, or the WC before that. How does it sound?He didn't score on this tour did he?
I agree, it sounds as pathetic as Babar's mental fortitude and stats against sena A teamsThis tour that tour what even. You did not win this worldcup or that worldcup, or the worldcup before that, or even the CT before that, or the WC before that, or the WC before that. How does it sound?![]()
Once you go through his stats against A SENA teams, you would be ashamed of what you have been commenting. Aus, SA, NZ and England are actually his bunnies.I agree, it sounds as pathetic as Babar's mental fortitude and stats against sena A teams
This tour that tour what even. You did not win this worldcup or that worldcup, or the worldcup before that, or even the CT before that, or the WC before that, or the WC before that. How does it sound?![]()
Can u pls post the stats as I don't recollect any thing .pls post stats when sena teams have fielded their a team not when random net bowler is bowling.as far as I know , vaas,nehra,zoysa have more average than babar in the 4th innings chases in aus.Aswin saved sydney match.Agarkar too scored a century in lords and yasir shah in Adelaide.Once you go through his stats against A SENA teams, you would be ashamed of what you have been commenting. Aus, SA, NZ and England are actually his bunnies.
Why don't you check it yourself. You'd be surprised to see that he averages like a mammoth while playing against A side SENA teams.Can u pls post the stats as I don't recollect any thing .pls post stats when sena teams have fielded their a team not when random net bowler is bowling.as far as I know , vaas,nehra,zoysa have more average than babar in the 4th innings chases in aus.Aswin saved sydney match.Agarkar too scored a century in lords and yasir shah in Adelaide.
You have said he bashed all those teams like minnows while evryone else was not buying it.Show the proof for all Ur opposition to hail the kingWhy don't you check it yourself. You'd be surprised to see that he averages like a mammoth while playing against A side SENA teams.
Simon Doull was sent death threats for raising this questionOutside of the roads in Rawalpindi and Karachi , Bobby averages a measly 38 in Test cricket.
Very ordinary career so far.