What's new

[VIDEOS] Is Babar Azam the best all format batter in the world currently?

Mamoon said:
Yes because I expect Babar to achieve those things in the coming years. He has already done really well considering the fact that Pakistan has a poor batting culture and he had average batsmen to share the dressing room with (except Younis who was world class in Tests only) while the likes of Kohli shared the dressing room with Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag etc.
Click to expand...
What do you expect Babar to achieve, can you please lay it out?

Also Sachin Shared the room with Azhar Manoj Prabhakar Manjrekar… dressing room sharing has nothing to do on the outcome.
 
JaDed said:
What do you expect Babar to achieve, can you please lay it out?

Also Sachin Shared the room with Azhar Manoj Prabhakar Manjrekar… dressing room sharing has nothing to do on the outcome.
Click to expand...
Sachin was an anomaly. A prodigy. How many batsmen at 16 can score runs against Richard Hadlee on a green top. In general, mentorship matters because not everyone can find their own way.

I expect Babar to score lots and lots of runs over the next 5-6 years, and end up with 30+ ODI centuries and 20+ Test centuries, become Pakistan’s top run getter across formats etc.

Whether any of that translates into tangible success for Pakistan as a group or not depends on other players not Babar.
 
Babar Azam is for purists, who want to see the best cover drive. Not for unsophisticated folks who want to see teams take turns to hit the ball and count the highest aggregator as the winner. It is an insult to his class that instead of admiring him for what he brings, people dismiss him for trivial things like the match outcome and his role in it.
 
mominsaigol said:
Except babar was never quality. His competiton isn't Pakistan, he's competing with the rest of the planet and as an opener in t20 and a top order I'm odi he's nowhere close to quality.

Quality is measurement metric, it doesn't stand on its own. Ask yourself if babar as a t20 opener is superior to butler, Quinton, Travis, Gurbaz and various others who have consistently been outperforming him.

Bangladeshi players top scored in 2016 wc, that doesn't mean you'd keep them, 2021 isn't a metric. Babar 39 of 34 in SF would have been under scrutiny had falhar not did what he did. Babar left us at 70 in the first 10?

Babar technique wise is very very very poor on the backfoot and always has been. He'll keep failing from here on out with the exception of c string series and maybe in CT 2025 as that'll be played in Pakistan and Pakistan will have the Indian advantage of 2023 where they could curate pitches.

So babar would carry his gaddafi and pindi exploits due to curating pitches with no grass and bully sides like he did against Nepal.

Otherwise he's failing non stop in every thing from here on out.

He peaked from 2016-2021. He was always a marketing propaganda for quality as people wrongfully and still now assume that he'd be pakistan's answer to their batting woes and he hasn't been, he's been in the same mould as hafeez, Haris sohail type batters but even less impactful albeit more consistent in scoring.
Click to expand...
Babar is a quality batsman by any measure.There is no doubt whatsoever that he is comfortably the finest batsman that Pakistan has produced in the last 20 years and the only batsman since Mohammad Yousuf’s debut who had the game for all formats.

How he compares to some of the best batsman in the world is a different story and of course that can be debated.

I’m not interested in comparisons with T20 dashers because Babar is a completely different player. As a batsman, he is comparable in style and approach to the likes of Kohli, Root, Smith, Williamson.

As a white ball batsman, he is at the same level as all of them except Kohli. Yes we can talk about whether he has played a big match innings like Smith did in the 2015 World Cup semifinal or hasn’t score 500 runs in an ODI World Cup like Root did in 2019 etc., but a lot of that has to do with the situation.

I compare players by the impact on the respective teams if you swap them. For example, if you swap prime Smith and prime Babar (that can be current Babar but in form) in ODIs, does Australia become weaker and Pakistan become stronger? No I don’t think so.

Similarly, you add Babar to the 2015-2019 England white ball team and add Joe Root to the Pakistan team, does anything change for the two teams? I don’t think so.

But of course, you swap him with those two in Test cricket and it makes a big difference because both are far better Test batsmen than him and similarly, if you swap him with prime Kohli across formats, it will have a huge impact on both teams as well.

So Babar is clearly comparable to players like Smith, Root and Williamson in multiple ways and one can also argue that he is somewhat comparable to Kohli as a Test batsman because apart from a 4 year period (2016-2019), Kohli has not uprooted any trees in the format. He was nothing special from 2012 to 2015 and he has been nothing special from 2020 to 2024.

I feel Babar is certainly capable of having a Kohli 2016-2019 type stretch in Test cricket in the next few years where he scores 3-4 double centuries and gets his average to 50+.

Babar’s blind game go overboard with the praise but unfortunately, it is also true that some of his critics go overboard as well and undervalue him far more than he deserves.

He is not the best thing since sliced bread but he is also not average, mediocre etc. either. Both are ridiculous positions to hold.
 
Mamoon said:
one can also argue that he is somewhat comparable to Kohli as a Test batsman because apart from a 4 year period (2016-2019), Kohli has not uprooted any trees in the format. He was nothing special from 2012 to 2015 and he has been nothing special from 2020 to 2024.
Click to expand...
He has 1 century in SENA lol, the same as jadeja. His away avg is also half of his home one.
 
I just joined this forum and I see lot of posts comparing Babar to Kohli...is this for real??? Even in some show they were showing how Umar Akmal was better than Kohli...very interesting.
 
Mamoon said:
Babar is a quality batsman by any measure.There is no doubt whatsoever that he is comfortably the finest batsman that Pakistan has produced in the last 20 years and the only batsman since Mohammad Yousuf’s debut who had the game for all formats.

How he compares to some of the best batsman in the world is a different story and of course that can be debated.

I’m not interested in comparisons with T20 dashers because Babar is a completely different player. As a batsman, he is comparable in style and approach to the likes of Kohli, Root, Smith, Williamson.

As a white ball batsman, he is at the same level as all of them except Kohli. Yes we can talk about whether he has played a big match innings like Smith did in the 2015 World Cup semifinal or hasn’t score 500 runs in an ODI World Cup like Root did in 2019 etc., but a lot of that has to do with the situation.

I compare players by the impact on the respective teams if you swap them. For example, if you swap prime Smith and prime Babar (that can be current Babar but in form) in ODIs, does Australia become weaker and Pakistan become stronger? No I don’t think so.

Similarly, you add Babar to the 2015-2019 England white ball team and add Joe Root to the Pakistan team, does anything change for the two teams? I don’t think so.

But of course, you swap him with those two in Test cricket and it makes a big difference because both are far better Test batsmen than him and similarly, if you swap him with prime Kohli across formats, it will have a huge impact on both teams as well.

So Babar is clearly comparable to players like Smith, Root and Williamson in multiple ways and one can also argue that he is somewhat comparable to Kohli as a Test batsman because apart from a 4 year period (2016-2019), Kohli has not uprooted any trees in the format. He was nothing special from 2012 to 2015 and he has been nothing special from 2020 to 2024.

I feel Babar is certainly capable of having a Kohli 2016-2019 type stretch in Test cricket in the next few years where he scores 3-4 double centuries and gets his average to 50+.

Babar’s blind game go overboard with the praise but unfortunately, it is also true that some of his critics go overboard as well and undervalue him far more than he deserves.

He is not the best thing since sliced bread but he is also not average, mediocre etc. either. Both are ridiculous positions to hold.
Click to expand...

A lot of utopian praise.

However, no innings of impact.

Even Abdul Razzaq has better match winnings than babar.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
CricketCartoons said:
Babar Azam is for purists, who want to see the best cover drive. Not for unsophisticated folks who want to see teams take turns to hit the ball and count the highest aggregator as the winner. It is an insult to his class that instead of admiring him for what he brings, people dismiss him for trivial things like the match outcome and his role in it.
Click to expand...
Because the match outcome gets affected by his batting, like how Indian team criticised Dravid in ODI then he changed gears for 2003.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
A lot of utopian praise.

However, no innings of impact.

Even Abdul Razzaq has better match winnings than Zimbabar.
Click to expand...
Why should Babar carry the burden of your expectations? You want innings of impact? Then go and watch Ben Stokes or Gilchrist.

Babar is only for the purists who have an eye for the best cover drive. And it is not an acquired taste.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Why should Babar carry the burden of your expectations? You want innings of impact? Then go and watch Ben Stokes or Gilchrist.

Babar is only for the purists who have an eye for the best cover drive. And it is not an acquired taste.
Click to expand...

He can lump his cover drive to himself.

I want winners, not purity.
 
Statpadder Inc said:
He has 1 century in SENA lol, the same as jadeja. His away avg is also half of his home one.
Click to expand...
That's the thing with arbitrary filters. They can show a lot but they can also hide more than they show.

It is a statistical fact that Babar has only 1 century in SENA so far. Agreed. However, this does reveal the 90* in NZ in 2016 where none of the the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20 against a rampant NZ attack. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal the 97 that he scored in Brisbane where where none of the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20, and it was against a rampant Starc who produced one of his best ever spells in Test cricket. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal his 68* at Lords in 2018 before he suffered a fracture and had to retire. It was one of the most impressive knocks by an Asian batsman in English conditions against Anderson, Broad and Wood because he was rarely troubled in that innings and almost never beaten outside his off-stump. The Guardian wrote that if any half-centurion deserved to be on the Lord's Honours Board it was that innings.

In addition, the Lord's YouTube channel still has a video on its account titled: "Should Babar Azam be on the Honours Board?"

There are many great half-centuries and 80s and 90s in cricket history that were more than several hundreds but they have been lost in history and their value was never recognized and appreciated by those who were enslaved by short-sighted and quick filters.

Nonetheless, even if we ignore the above innings, I don't see a problem with calling Babar as a very good batsman based on his body of work so far if we can call Ponting one of the greatest batsmen of all time (and rightly so) in spite of batting like a clown in India across multiple tours, and if we can Warne the greatest spinner of all time (and rightly so) in spite of bowling like Shadab on the most spin-friendly pitches in the world.

​

 
Dr_Bassim said:
A lot of utopian praise.

However, no innings of impact.

Even Abdul Razzaq has better match winnings than Zimbabar.
Click to expand...
Babar has played several knocks that resulted in wins. You are free to list all those innings and explain, innings by innings, why Babar doesn't deserve credit for those wins.
 
Mamoon said:
That's the thing with arbitrary filters. They can show a lot but they can also hide more than they show.

It is a statistical fact that Babar has only 1 century in SENA so far. Agreed. However, this does reveal the 90* in NZ in 2016 where none of the the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20 against a rampant NZ attack. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal the 97 that he scored in Brisbane where where none of the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20, and it was against a rampant Starc who produced one of his best ever spells in Test cricket. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal his 68* at Lords in 2018 before he suffered a fracture and had to retire. It was one of the most impressive knocks by an Asian batsman in English conditions against Anderson, Broad and Wood because he was rarely troubled in that innings and almost never beaten outside his off-stump. The Guardian wrote that if any half-centurion deserved to be on the Lord's Honours Board it was that innings.

In addition, the Lord's YouTube channel still has a video on its account titled: "Should Babar Azam be on the Honours Board?"

There are many great half-centuries and 80s and 90s in cricket history that were more than several hundreds but they have been lost in history and their value was never recognized and appreciated by those who were enslaved by short-sighted and quick filters.

Nonetheless, even if we ignore the above innings, I don't see a problem with calling Babar as a very good batsman based on his body of work so far if we can call Ponting one of the greatest batsmen of all time (and rightly so) in spite of batting like a clown in India across multiple tours, and if we can Warne the greatest spinner of all time (and rightly so) in spite of bowling like Shadab on the most spin-friendly pitches in the world.

​

Click to expand...
So Babar Azam has

1. 1 test hundred in SENA
2. 1 90 in Brisbane
3. 1 68 in Lords

Bonus - Lords youtube channel has a video on Babar Azam !

Truly GOAT stuff !
 
Mamoon said:
That's the thing with arbitrary filters. They can show a lot but they can also hide more than they show.

It is a statistical fact that Babar has only 1 century in SENA so far. Agreed. However, this does reveal the 90* in NZ in 2016 where none of the the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20 against a rampant NZ attack. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal the 97 that he scored in Brisbane where where none of the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20, and it was against a rampant Starc who produced one of his best ever spells in Test cricket. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal his 68* at Lords in 2018 before he suffered a fracture and had to retire. It was one of the most impressive knocks by an Asian batsman in English conditions against Anderson, Broad and Wood because he was rarely troubled in that innings and almost never beaten outside his off-stump. The Guardian wrote that if any half-centurion deserved to be on the Lord's Honours Board it was that innings.

In addition, the Lord's YouTube channel still has a video on its account titled: "Should Babar Azam be on the Honours Board?"

There are many great half-centuries and 80s and 90s in cricket history that were more than several hundreds but they have been lost in history and their value was never recognized and appreciated by those who were enslaved by short-sighted and quick filters.

Nonetheless, even if we ignore the above innings, I don't see a problem with calling Babar as a very good batsman based on his body of work so far if we can call Ponting one of the greatest batsmen of all time (and rightly so) in spite of batting like a clown in India across multiple tours, and if we can Warne the greatest spinner of all time (and rightly so) in spite of bowling like Shadab on the most spin-friendly pitches in the world.

​

Click to expand...
Tbh that's nothing, there are 20 batsman from Asia who have done better in SENA.

A couple of 90s in losing causes are soft, meaningless runs
 
Would Babar Azam be considered a better batsman than a Zaheer Abbas, Saeed Anwar or a Javed?
 
Statpadder Inc said:
Tbh that's nothing, there are 20 batsman from Asia who have done better in SENA.

A couple of 90s in losing causes are soft, meaningless runs
Click to expand...
That’s not the point, the point is that not scoring more than 1 hundred in SENA after X number of matches, that too before his peak years, doesn’t disqualify an Asian batsman from being considered a very good player just like the reverse will not disqualify a SENA batsman with 1 hundred in Asia.

However, this is where the inferiority complex of subcontinent fans kick in.

Furthermore, the innings that I listed were not soft & meaningless. It is clear you were not aware of those innings forget about having watched them. One can expect such assessment from scoreboard readers though, because there is a massive difference between watching an innings and reading a scorecard.

My favorite example of the difference between watching and scorecard reading is Kohli’s 35 (49) in the 2011 WC final.

Scorecard readers today would say that it was one of those classic WC knockout chokes by Kohli, but those of us who saw that innings live would agree that it was better than most half-centuries and maybe even some hundreds.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
sweep_shot said:
Anwar
Afridi
Ijaz
Inzi

Legendary lineup.
Click to expand...
Yup, and sometimes Moin/Latif , Wasim Azhar Mehmood coming to the party.

The team was complete with Razzaq(was one down in 99wc games) , Sawlain and Akhtar. Can’t believe until this day their 1999 performance, no weak link at all.
 
NishanKonar said:
So Babar Azam has

1. 1 test hundred in SENA
2. 1 90 in Brisbane
3. 1 68 in Lords

Bonus - Lords youtube channel has a video on Babar Azam !

Truly GOAT stuff !
Click to expand...
Both 2,093 and 2,102 answer your comment. If you want to ignore it just because you can slide in a cheeky remark to compensate for your lack of coherence, that is fine. You can have the last word.
 
kach said:
Would Babar Azam be considered a better batsman than a Zaheer Abbas, Saeed Anwar or a Javed?
Click to expand...
If he retires today, no, but considering his age and body of work so far, he will be right up there depending on how much he can on the next 5-6 years which should be the best period of his career.
 
Mamoon said:
That’s not the point, the point is that not scoring more than 1 hundred in SENA after X number of matches, that too before his peak years, doesn’t disqualify an Asian batsman from being considered a very good player, just like the reverse will not disqualify a SENA batsman with 1 hundred in Asia.

However, this is where the inferiority complex of subcontinent fans kick in.

Furthermore, the innings that I listed were not soft & meaningless. It is clear you were not aware of those innings forget about having watched them. One can expect such assessment from scoreboard readers though, because there is a massive difference between watching an innings and reading a scorecard.

My favorite example of the difference between watching and scorecard reading is Kohli’s 35 (49) in the 2011 WC final.

Scorecard readers today would say that it was one of those classic WC knockout chokes by Kohli, but those of us who saw that innings live would agree that it was better than most half-centuries and maybe even some hundreds.
Click to expand...
His 97 came in the same match where even Yasir Shan scored a ton and Warner scored a triple century, what a great, fighting knock in tough conditions. So meaningful
 
Mamoon said:
That’s not the point, the point is that not scoring more than 1 hundred in SENA after X number of matches, that too before his peak years, doesn’t disqualify an Asian batsman from being considered a very good player, just like the reverse will not disqualify a SENA batsman with 1 hundred in Asia.

However, this is where the inferiority complex of subcontinent fans kick in.

Furthermore, the innings that I listed were not soft & meaningless. It is clear you were not aware of those innings forget about having watched them. One can expect such assessment from scoreboard readers though, because there is a massive difference between watching an innings and reading a scorecard.

My favorite example of the difference between watching and scorecard reading is Kohli’s 35 (49) in the 2011 WC final.

Scorecard readers today would say that it was one of those classic WC knockout chokes by Kohli, but those of us who saw that innings live would agree that it was better than most half-centuries and maybe even some hundreds.
Click to expand...
Can u name 1 SENA batter who had 1 test century in Asia and is rated as a great batter ?

Almost every SENA batter who is rated great - Joe Root, Kevin Pietersen, Steve Waugh , Jacques Kallis , Graeme Smith, Matt Hayden, Michael Clarke had many test tons in Asia

Some players had average record in 1 country like Ponting in India but he did score overall 4 in Asia
 
Babar Azam has 1 test century in SENA. That's really pathetic for someone considered as Pakistan's top test batter

Unless he scores at least 4-5 test tons in SENA before his career ends , any comparison with Saeed Anwar, Zaheer Abbas or Javed Miandad is ludicrous. I mean people used to cricticse Javed Miandad's poor record overseas and he actually scored hundreds at Perth & Trinidad !

But with Babar's technique - thats very unlikley. He has too many loose ends in his technique
 
Mamoon said:
Babar is a quality batsman by any measure.There is no doubt whatsoever that he is comfortably the finest batsman that Pakistan has produced in the last 20 years and the only batsman since Mohammad Yousuf’s debut who had the game for all formats.

How he compares to some of the best batsman in the world is a different story and of course that can be debated.

I’m not interested in comparisons with T20 dashers because Babar is a completely different player. As a batsman, he is comparable in style and approach to the likes of Kohli, Root, Smith, Williamson.

As a white ball batsman, he is at the same level as all of them except Kohli. Yes we can talk about whether he has played a big match innings like Smith did in the 2015 World Cup semifinal or hasn’t score 500 runs in an ODI World Cup like Root did in 2019 etc., but a lot of that has to do with the situation.

I compare players by the impact on the respective teams if you swap them. For example, if you swap prime Smith and prime Babar (that can be current Babar but in form) in ODIs, does Australia become weaker and Pakistan become stronger? No I don’t think so.

Similarly, you add Babar to the 2015-2019 England white ball team and add Joe Root to the Pakistan team, does anything change for the two teams? I don’t think so.

But of course, you swap him with those two in Test cricket and it makes a big difference because both are far better Test batsmen than him and similarly, if you swap him with prime Kohli across formats, it will have a huge impact on both teams as well.

So Babar is clearly comparable to players like Smith, Root and Williamson in multiple ways and one can also argue that he is somewhat comparable to Kohli as a Test batsman because apart from a 4 year period (2016-2019), Kohli has not uprooted any trees in the format. He was nothing special from 2012 to 2015 and he has been nothing special from 2020 to 2024.

I feel Babar is certainly capable of having a Kohli 2016-2019 type stretch in Test cricket in the next few years where he scores 3-4 double centuries and gets his average to 50+.

Babar’s blind game go overboard with the praise but unfortunately, it is also true that some of his critics go overboard as well and undervalue him far more than he deserves.

He is not the best thing since sliced bread but he is also not average, mediocre etc. either. Both are ridiculous positions to hold.
Click to expand...
Babar is a quality batsman by any measure.There is no doubt whatsoever that he is comfortably the finest batsman that Pakistan has produced in the last 20 years and the only batsman since Mohammad Yousuf’s debut who had the game for all formats.

How he compares to some of the best batsman in the world is a different story and of course that can be debated.

The measure that most people use is comparison, you determine the quality of a player through comaprisons with others, not their individual milestones against Nepal. And it is not debatable, Butler, Travis, quinton, Makram etc etc are miles superior to Bobby.

I compare players by the impact on the respective teams if you swap them. For example, if you swap prime Smith and prime Babar (that can be current Babar but in form) in ODIs, does Australia become weaker and Pakistan become stronger? No I don’t think so.

Prime Smith has smacked a 62 ball 100 against full strength india on tours, their wasnt a single batter who was superior to him in 2015, not even kohli had better showings in 2015 then him, kohli had better showings in 2016 though. If you swapped Prime Smith for Babar, Australia would lose the game against india in the SF as Smith basically dismantled the side while the rest did average, and Babar is crap against India with only 2021 being his outlier innings, Even then he for sure as heck ain't scoring a 70 ball 100 against 2015 Indian pacers. Also this Prime Babar is current Babar but inform is a hypothetical, he doesn't exist as of yet so he isn't a valid argument. Hypothetically anyone cam be put anywhere.

Lastly if Smith was in Pakistan team in 2015, Pakistan would have beaten India, since Misbah would have done his typical stat padding, but Smith at the other end would be good enough to dismantle. As long as he has someone with him who can hold the line. Babar can't do that. Babar against NZ in wc was the one holding the line while fakhar was doing his thing.

Similarly, you add Babar to the 2015-2019 England white ball team and add Joe Root to the Pakistan team, does anything change for the two teams? I don’t think so.

Root in odi was the weakest link even in 2019, England should have gone with Hales, Root may have stat padded, but each game was carried by one of the top 7 besides Root kicking off, be it Morgan dismantling Afghanistan, Stokes clutch innings in final, Bairstow and Roy hailstorm against India etc etc. You're overating Root way too much by relying on top tournament scorecards.

"He is not the best thing since sliced bread but he is also not average, mediocre etc. either. Both are ridiculous positions to hold."

No one cares about these types of narratives. If you're going to compare him to Prime Smith then he needs to showcase such odi performances with sides that don't include Nepal. People are calling Babar medicore due to how crap his 2022, 2023 and 2024 form was in tournaments.

Babar at his absolute peak has been in the years 2016 till 2021, and at his absolute peak he is nowhere close to Prime Smith. Even in 2021 which was his absolute best, he topped the charts by being a wall and being an opener who got the most screen time. His run chases against India, NZ and scores against Australia where all accumulative scores irrespective of the situation.





 
Mamoon said:
That's the thing with arbitrary filters. They can show a lot but they can also hide more than they show.

It is a statistical fact that Babar has only 1 century in SENA so far. Agreed. However, this does reveal the 90* in NZ in 2016 where none of the the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20 against a rampant NZ attack. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal the 97 that he scored in Brisbane where where none of the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20, and it was against a rampant Starc who produced one of his best ever spells in Test cricket. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal his 68* at Lords in 2018 before he suffered a fracture and had to retire. It was one of the most impressive knocks by an Asian batsman in English conditions against Anderson, Broad and Wood because he was rarely troubled in that innings and almost never beaten outside his off-stump. The Guardian wrote that if any half-centurion deserved to be on the Lord's Honours Board it was that innings.

In addition, the Lord's YouTube channel still has a video on its account titled: "Should Babar Azam be on the Honours Board?"

There are many great half-centuries and 80s and 90s in cricket history that were more than several hundreds but they have been lost in history and their value was never recognized and appreciated by those who were enslaved by short-sighted and quick filters.

Nonetheless, even if we ignore the above innings, I don't see a problem with calling Babar as a very good batsman based on his body of work so far if we can call Ponting one of the greatest batsmen of all time (and rightly so) in spite of batting like a clown in India across multiple tours, and if we can Warne the greatest spinner of all time (and rightly so) in spite of bowling like Shadab on the most spin-friendly pitches in the world.

​

Click to expand...
That's some serious straw clutching. When I look at records of people like Lara, Sachin, Ponting or Kohli.... Babar's impact is negligible in front of them.

Inzamam was a better batsman than Babar.
 
Statpadder Inc said:
@Mamoon , look up Smith's record in the 2015 wc knockouts, Babar could never dream of replicating that.
Click to expand...
2015 Smith is literally superior to every version of Kohli except 2023 Kohli who in home conditions at no 3 was a completly different beast and 2016 Kohli.

He was the best player of the tournament. Babar has never ever been the best player of any tournament. And no him being the top scorer of 2021 doesn't make him the best player of the tournament.

By this logic Travis head was one of the worst players of 2023 even though he was clearly the best opener of the tournament. Had he played all games in his favourite Indian conditions you'd be seeing IPL level video game fireworks.
 
Statpadder Inc said:
What are you talking about lol, I was praising Smith. Head was incredible in 2023, no disagreements.

Smith overall is an average odi player, nothing great. The worst of the fab 4 for me.

2015 was the only time he was superior to kohli as an odi batter
Click to expand...
I was agreeing with you my dude. Not attacking you .
 
Baba Azam has two more ODI WC in him. He can make amends and upend all the sassy comments leveled against him!
 
RidiculousMan said:
Hugely disappointing tournaments from Babar the batter since 2022.

Hope he can find the right form and mindset to deliver in the big events in the coming years. A player like him shouldn't be struggling like this in big events. That's all I can say.
Click to expand...
He has been a failure for some time now. 30 plus as well, he seems lazy and does not have the work ethic to turn it around. Talent alone is not enough.
 
Hitman said:
Not 30 yet.
Click to expand...
He is on paper 30. Which means he is at least 33-34

Almost all Pakistanis fake their ages by at least 3-4 years

So if Babar is 33-34 , there is little chance of a grand comeback. One bcoz he lacks the fitness & work ethic of someone like Kohli
 
I don’t even get “Babar is for the purists”. Just because he plays a nice cover drive doesn’t make him a purist. He actually doesn’t have great technique, his foot movement isn’t great either. Yes some of his shots ooze class - so what?

Im not saying you need great footwork and technique to be a great. But then don’t give me this purist nonsense.

The thing is people are trying to shoehorn many things with babar and hope one sticks. Does Babar have ability? Yes. Unfortunately he just does not have the mentality. I’ve never seen him stamp any authority on a game. I’ve never seen him try dominate anyone. The opposition don’t even seem to be that bothered by him like they are with other great players. He just does not have that fear factor.

Personally, he his hyped simply because in this era, we have literally zero decent batsmen. So is he overall the best of a bad bunch, sure if you’re happy with that.
 
Mamoon said:
Babar is a quality batsman by any measure.There is no doubt whatsoever that he is comfortably the finest batsman that Pakistan has produced in the last 20 years and the only batsman since Mohammad Yousuf’s debut who had the game for all formats.

How he compares to some of the best batsman in the world is a different story and of course that can be debated.

I’m not interested in comparisons with T20 dashers because Babar is a completely different player. As a batsman, he is comparable in style and approach to the likes of Kohli, Root, Smith, Williamson.

As a white ball batsman, he is at the same level as all of them except Kohli. Yes we can talk about whether he has played a big match innings like Smith did in the 2015 World Cup semifinal or hasn’t score 500 runs in an ODI World Cup like Root did in 2019 etc., but a lot of that has to do with the situation.

I compare players by the impact on the respective teams if you swap them. For example, if you swap prime Smith and prime Babar (that can be current Babar but in form) in ODIs, does Australia become weaker and Pakistan become stronger? No I don’t think so.

Similarly, you add Babar to the 2015-2019 England white ball team and add Joe Root to the Pakistan team, does anything change for the two teams? I don’t think so.

But of course, you swap him with those two in Test cricket and it makes a big difference because both are far better Test batsmen than him and similarly, if you swap him with prime Kohli across formats, it will have a huge impact on both teams as well.

So Babar is clearly comparable to players like Smith, Root and Williamson in multiple ways and one can also argue that he is somewhat comparable to Kohli as a Test batsman because apart from a 4 year period (2016-2019), Kohli has not uprooted any trees in the format. He was nothing special from 2012 to 2015 and he has been nothing special from 2020 to 2024.

I feel Babar is certainly capable of having a Kohli 2016-2019 type stretch in Test cricket in the next few years where he scores 3-4 double centuries and gets his average to 50+.

Babar’s blind game go overboard with the praise but unfortunately, it is also true that some of his critics go overboard as well and undervalue him far more than he deserves.

He is not the best thing since sliced bread but he is also not average, mediocre etc. either. Both are ridiculous positions to hold.
Click to expand...
Same as Kohli?

Kohli made 650+ runs in the tour of aus , babar has no such performances.
Also averaged 50+ with a century against Dale Steyn SA in SA, what has babar done of the same measure ?

Similarly he scored a century against Prime Swann and Panesar, and was still scoring heavily against all teams in Indian conditions
 
Mamoon said:
That's the thing with arbitrary filters. They can show a lot but they can also hide more than they show.

It is a statistical fact that Babar has only 1 century in SENA so far. Agreed. However, this does reveal the 90* in NZ in 2016 where none of the the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20 against a rampant NZ attack. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal the 97 that he scored in Brisbane where where none of the other top 5 batsmen in the team could cross 20, and it was against a rampant Starc who produced one of his best ever spells in Test cricket. That innings was better than most hundreds.

It also does not reveal his 68* at Lords in 2018 before he suffered a fracture and had to retire. It was one of the most impressive knocks by an Asian batsman in English conditions against Anderson, Broad and Wood because he was rarely troubled in that innings and almost never beaten outside his off-stump. The Guardian wrote that if any half-centurion deserved to be on the Lord's Honours Board it was that innings.

In addition, the Lord's YouTube channel still has a video on its account titled: "Should Babar Azam be on the Honours Board?"

There are many great half-centuries and 80s and 90s in cricket history that were more than several hundreds but they have been lost in history and their value was never recognized and appreciated by those who were enslaved by short-sighted and quick filters.

Nonetheless, even if we ignore the above innings, I don't see a problem with calling Babar as a very good batsman based on his body of work so far if we can call Ponting one of the greatest batsmen of all time (and rightly so) in spite of batting like a clown in India across multiple tours, and if we can Warne the greatest spinner of all time (and rightly so) in spite of bowling like Shadab on the most spin-friendly pitches in the world.

​

Click to expand...
When one has to go back years and years to come up with knocks that had an impact (including losses) shows you how pathetic Babar has been since 2022.
 
NishanKonar said:
He is on paper 30. Which means he is at least 33-34

Almost all Pakistanis fake their ages by at least 3-4 years

So if Babar is 33-34 , there is little chance of a grand comeback. One bcoz he lacks the fitness & work ethic of someone like Kohli
Click to expand...
He is well over 30 and his fitness is deteriorating very quick. I mean he is a skinny lad with a tummy!
 
Doesn't matter. If Babar has a tummy, Rohit sharma has the king of tummies and he still going strong and scoring runs at the world stage.
 
mominsaigol said:
Rohit is scoring, Babar isn't.
Click to expand...
Who is Pakistan's top scorer for this WC, for the series before WC, for the series before that series, for the series before that series and for the series before that series? The run machine, Babar Azam
 
heddie19 said:
Who is Pakistan's top scorer for this WC, for the series before WC, for the series before that series, for the series before that series and for the series before that series? The run machine, Babar Azam
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with rohit being superior to him? Or Travis being superior to him? Or butler being superior to him?

You shove babar to near Bradman levels and this is the 5th tournament where he's rushed back home in shame
 
mominsaigol said:
What does that have to do with rohit being superior to him? Or Travis being superior to him? Or butler being superior to him?

You shove babar to near Bradman levels and this is the 5th tournament where he's rushed back home in shame
Click to expand...
None of those hacks are superior to him, Babar has more runs than Rohit in less number of innings, More centuries in succesfully chasing 200+ and not. The players you mentioned aren't even fit to tie Babar's shoe lace
 
heddie19 said:
None of those hacks are superior to him, Babar has more runs than Rohit in less number of innings, More centuries in succesfully chasing 200+ and not. The players you mentioned aren't even fit to tie Babar's shoe lace
Click to expand...
Who is better as a batsmen, Sachin or Babar
 
heddie19 said:
None of those hacks are superior to him, Babar has more runs than Rohit in less number of innings, More centuries in succesfully chasing 200+ and not. The players you mentioned aren't even fit to tie Babar's shoe lace
Click to expand...
Babar isn't even as good as Axar Patel. Won't match Rohit in another lifetime
 
heddie19 said:
Babar is the greatest T20 player in the history of the game. Fastest to 10k Runs. 11 T20 centuries. 3 international centuries. 2 Centuries in succesfully chasing 200+ runs. GOAT at the age of 29.
Click to expand...
Atleast change your pfp 🤣
 
Zimbabar is the best batsman. He is the greatest ever we agree with all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rohit is not even a fit to tie Babar's shoe lace. His innings per game is way too less than Babar. He should be compared to players like Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shezzy at best. Babar as I mentioned is the GOAT T20 player.
 
Babar Azam moves up 1 spot in the latest ICC Test batter's ranking as he moves up to the number 3 spot now.

He lost his number 4 spot in the t20s though and is now at the number 5 spot in T20 Batter's rankings.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Babar Azam moves up 1 spot in the latest ICC Test batter's ranking as he moves up to the number 3 spot now.

He lost his number 4 spot in the t20s though and is now at the number 5 spot in T20 Batter's rankings.
Click to expand...
Biggest joke ranking ever. He hasn't even played test since Australia?
 
BouncerGuy said:
Babar Azam moves up 1 spot in the latest ICC Test batter's ranking as he moves up to the number 3 spot now.

He lost his number 4 spot in the t20s though and is now at the number 5 spot in T20 Batter's rankings.
Click to expand...
Who’s controlling these rankings? Feels like it’s Mohsin Naqvi rewarding mediocrity
 
Rana said:
Who’s controlling these rankings? Feels like it’s Mohsin Naqvi rewarding mediocrity
Click to expand...
I do know for a fact given my past visit to CA, that rankings are manipulated somewhat.

Kohli use to be ranked no 1, but ICC had in the past deliberately awarded extra points to babar to get him no 1.

The points are heavily biased towards Asian teams, Mainly because India is the most popular nation so any controversy with them will spark more interest and more money to the sport.

Babar is a household name, CA and ECB know he's medicore which is why no foreign league hires him, However from a marketing standpoint think of it this way

Kohli has been no 1 ranked for years and then a kid from an under developed country cones forth and just takes the crown. Now imagine from a pr standpoint what type of publicity that achieves for a 1.3B and 225M population as well as many overseas Indians and pakistani who can spread the word out?

ICC wants to keep bobby at the top for a reason. Someone like root or Williamson no 1 won't really spark more interest.

It is a business at the end of the day
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

mominsaigol
[PICTURES] A message for Babar Azam and his fans: Focus on ODIs and retire from Test and T20I
2 3 4
Replies
311
Views
11K
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
R
  • Poll Poll
Would you pick a classical batter in the mould of Babar Azam over a slogger like Abhishek Sharma in the white ball?
2
Replies
150
Views
6K
RizwanT20Champ
R
mominsaigol
Why is Babar Azam so poor in fielding?
Replies
25
Views
838
Rana
Rana
FearlessRoar
Michael Vaughan names Babar Azam among top-three Pakistan batters of all-time
2
Replies
108
Views
3K
mominsaigol
mominsaigol
Rana
Chris Gayle versus David Warner versus Kevin Pietersen versus AB de Villiers: Who is the greatest all format batter of the modern era?
2 3
Replies
175
Views
6K
mominsaigol
mominsaigol
Back
Top