[VIDEOS] Jammu and Kashmir pacer Umran Malik

[Pakhs]

Instead of 150 km/hr , I go by this miles scale

Express bowlers can clock 95-99 miles per hour which is 152.88+ km/hr on irregular basis.
with pretty all non slower balls overs 145 km/hrs
Barring exceptions like Akhtar , Lee who were express for majority of their career , most bowlers are express for short duration.

Fast bowlers can clock 90-94 miles per hour which is 144.81+ km/hr on regular basis.

Fast Medium bowlers can clock 85-89 miles per hour which is 136.79+ km/hr on regular basis.

Medium Fast bowler can 80-84 miles per hour hour which is 128.74+ km/hr on regular basis

Below that are the bowlers bowling at Medium pace.

Agree with the numbers 100%

 

[Pakhs]

You seem to have lost your marbles mate. Read what I said. I agree that India’s attack is better than Pakistan’s. What’s the actual problem?

We have one bowler (Rauf) who is as quick as Umran. Yup, no disagreement there. I’m not very proud of our fast bowling in recent years and I am just as critical of them as anyone would be. I’d like to see Shaheen, Rauf and Naseem bowl together. That has the makings of a great pace attack. But we won’t know or be able to say they are great for a while.

What are you jumping up n down for? India has a very good seam up attack. They should be very proud that this band of medium-fast bowlers are performing so well in the current era. Well done. I am happy for you. All I’m saying is you’re a litttle short of pace to call it a “pace attack”. Umran May fill that void.

Seriously keep your chuds on man

Umran is quick but its easy to bowl quick for 4 hours specially early on in your career. However once remember players like Lee and Akhtar did not play much T20s and had to regularly bowl quick in tests and 50 over ODIs.

We wont know exactly how quick Umran is until he debuts and plays at-least 10 matches. However one potential he is a good find and can be an exciting pacer to watch regardless to who you support.

 

[TheSultan]

How many tests have Rauf played? Naseem avgs nearly 40 in tests. Only Shaheen has been good. So your pace attack isnt world class.

What you are doing is trolling, Bumrah Shami Siraj Umesh all bowl in 140s regularly, with Bumrah hitting late 140s. Thats a pace attack.

Your denial wont change that.

I think you may have lost your chuds, betting against the Indian pace attack and betting on the pakistani new ball bowlers.

Are you having trouble reading? Seriously? Calm down!

Where did I say our attack is world class? Where am I betting on the pak attack?

Bumrah, Shami, Siraj etc are a decent workmanlike bunch. They work well together. But that pace is baby pace. It’s not pace. It’s decent sharpish pace. I am actually praising them, but you’re getting your knickers in a twist just cos I won’t say they are fast. They are not fast. No shame in that. They are a good, ok very good seam up attack. Accept what they are and move on.

 

[TheSultan]

Umran is quick but its easy to bowl quick for 4 hours specially early on in your career. However once remember players like Lee and Akhtar did not play much T20s and had to regularly bowl quick in tests and 50 over ODIs.

We wont know exactly how quick Umran is until he debuts and plays at-least 10 matches. However one potential he is a good find and can be an exciting pacer to watch regardless to who you support.

Agreed. It remains to be seen if he can keep up the pace over a longer innings or a long period of time. I did see him take a break for a drink in the middle of an over in the last game.

 

[ufcfan]

Are you having trouble reading? Seriously? Calm down!

Where did I say our attack is world class? Where am I betting on the pak attack?

Bumrah, Shami, Siraj etc are a decent workmanlike bunch. They work well together. But that pace is baby pace. It’s not pace. It’s decent sharpish pace. I am actually praising them, but you’re getting your knickers in a twist just cos I won’t say they are fast. They are not fast. No shame in that. They are a good, ok very good seam up attack. Accept what they are and move on.

Not sure about baby pace but seems you have baby acumen about cricket
A cricket fan calling SA attack fast and the other attack workmanlike attack needs to attend cricket workshops regularly not randomly,so its better to move on from quoting and replying you,
And please keep the jealousy down

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not sure about baby pace but seems you have baby acumen about cricket
A cricket fan calling SA attack fast and the other attack workmanlike attack needs to attend cricket workshops regularly not randomly,so its better to move on from quoting and replying you,
And please keep the jealousy down

Fastest ball in yesterday's Match

Shivam Mavi 147.8 km/hr

 

[TheSultan]

Not sure about baby pace but seems you have baby acumen about cricket
A cricket fan calling SA attack fast and the other attack workmanlike attack needs to attend cricket workshops regularly not randomly,so its better to move on from quoting and replying you,
And please keep the jealousy down

Nortje is miles quicker than anything India have and rabada is at least as quick as the rest of them and has a higher ceiling.

So SA do have a quicker attack, not a better attack, but a quicker attack. Read the last sentence again. If you get angry read it again s l o w l y.

I don’t know what you’re all irked by. I’m giving credit to your attack, but it is my duty to give you some home truths about their pace. This is by Indian standards a very quick attack, but you can’t call it a pace attack. Baby pace. Be proud they are accurate and bowl well as a team.

 

[ufcfan]

Nortje is miles quicker than anything India have and rabada is at least as quick as the rest of them and has a higher ceiling.

So SA do have a quicker attack, not a better attack, but a quicker attack. Read the last sentence again. If you get angry read it again s l o w l y.

I don’t know what you’re all irked by. I’m giving credit to your attack, but it is my duty to give you some home truths about their pace. This is by Indian standards a very quick attack, but you can’t call it a pace attack. Baby pace. Be proud they are accurate and bowl well as a team.

Tone down your jealousy, don't pretend to be cool
Its quite evident
Nortje is the only quick there ,neither is Rabada anymore nor others
And Nortje doesn't even bowl 145+ in all spells
We have guys who bowl/have bowled spells in around 140+
Yeah that is baby pace lol
In that metric Pakistan has pre baby pace,
We are proud because they have given us results mostly good
Hope weakest test attack in the planet takes a cue from here,they deliberately dont bowl as a unit,do they?

 

[Mesozoic]

He's a great find no doubt but this whole obsession with "express pace" is nauseating.

India's Test bowling attack , whose average pace is in the late 130s , has been the best in the world for good 4 years time while some self proclaimed phasst attacks get mauled for scores like 600/5, 580/3 etc frequently.

Now you decide what you want.

 

[TheSultan]

He's a great find no doubt but this whole obsession with "express pace" is nauseating.

India's Test bowling attack , whose average pace is in the late 130s , has been the best in the world for good 4 years time while some self proclaimed phasst attacks get mauled for scores like 600/5, 580/3 etc frequently.

Now you decide what you want.

Now this is closer to what I was saying. Finally An Indian fan who knows about his team and is not concocting some fantasy about being some kid of “pace attack”.

India is a good attack (maybe even the best attack) with average pace in the 130s.

I think you’re getting a bit excited by saying 4 years fella but they have certainly had their moments. well done, good effort

 

[Mesozoic]

Now this is closer to what I was saying. Finally An Indian fan who knows about his team and is not concocting some fantasy about being some kid of “pace attack”.

India is a good attack (maybe even the best attack) with average pace in the 130s.

I think you’re getting a bit excited by saying 4 years fella but they have certainly had their moments. well done, good effort

No Indian fan ever claimed they're a rapid daler phassht bowling attack who bowl every ball at 100 MPH. You're just using the good ol straw man to boost your non existent argument.

And yes. Indian fast bowling attack has been the best since 2018. And this has got nothing to do will my "excitement".

 

[Villager6964]

How many tests have Rauf played? Naseem avgs nearly 40 in tests. Only Shaheen has been good. So your pace attack isnt world class.

What you are doing is trolling, Bumrah Shami Siraj Umesh all bowl in 140s regularly, with Bumrah hitting late 140s. Thats a pace attack.

Your denial wont change that.

I think you may have lost your chuds, betting against the Indian pace attack and betting on the pakistani new ball bowlers.

LOL Naseem Shah is the fastest pacer from asia in terms of average speed in test cricket.
All indian pacers are way behind him in terms of average pace.

 

[Firebat]

This thread is about Umran Malik, posters are more than welcome to create new threads and discuss other topics there.

 

[cricketjoshila]

LOL Naseem Shah is the fastest pacer from asia in terms of average speed in test cricket.
All indian pacers are way behind him in terms of average pace.

Is there a proper source fir this? Would like to see.

 

[TheSultan]

India’s seam-up bowling line up could do with an injection of pace and Umran may eventually be the solution to that.

Honestly such a simple point that got all the Indians so heated up!

 

[ethan hunt]

Is there a proper source fir this? Would like to see.

These two charts from Cricviz show last three years data from test matches,
Naseem is easily the quickest in test cricket.




Its not even debatable.
In white ball cricket Haris rauf bowled at 155 kph this PSL and was the quickest at the t20 worldcup.

These are world standards let alone Asia . Now lets get back to the topic.

 

[TheSultan]

These two charts from Cricviz show last three years data from test matches,
Naseem is easily the quickest in test cricket.

View attachment 115695
View attachment 115696

Its not even debatable.
In white ball cricket Haris rauf bowled at 155 kph this PSL and was the quickest at the t20 worldcup.

These are world standards let alone Asia . Now lets get back to the topic.

Great work and research

 

[khan991]

Umran Malik is a great prospect who I admire and its the first time I am seeing an indian bowler who can provide extreme Pace and excitement. Hes the closest pace bowler to a Pakistani Player( His action resembles Waqar Younis). Lets not get ahead of ourselves and compare Pakistani bowlers to indian bowlers. We got bowlers like umran sitting on the bench or not even be selected. We dont constantly show their highlights and talk about how fast they are. Always leave the bowling to us, Never compare Pakistani pace bowlers to Indian bowlers. Its like comparing a fast maruti to a ferrari.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Some of our fans are comparing a 22 year old Umran Malik with a 19 year old Naseem Shah who is actually playing international cricket? As I said earlier, I saw similar arguments regarding Shaheen after his under 19 performances too. I also predicted that Shaheen will make his debut earlier than those under 19 Indian bowlers. Those bowlers are no where to be seen in International Cricket whereas Shaheen has become a household name after his performance against India in the T20 WC.

 

[gani999]

He's a great find no doubt but this whole obsession with "express pace" is nauseating.

India's Test bowling attack , whose average pace is in the late 130s , has been the best in the world for good 4 years time while some self proclaimed phasst attacks get mauled for scores like 600/5, 580/3 etc frequently.

Now you decide what you want.

Quite right. Don't know why Pakistanis are so much into pace. It may be a good thing to bowl fast but accuracy and consistency are important too.
I'd anyday have a Glenn McGrath who destroyed batting lineups bowling at 120 kmph over an unsteady Naseem Shah who bowls at 150 kmph but averages 40 with the ball in tests.

As for Umran Malik, he is fast but has some miles to go before becoming international material. He is too wayward at the moment, although that is starting to change very quickly under Dale Steyn's tutelage in SRH. He does have a bright future.

 

[Sidilicious]

Umran Malik is a great prospect who I admire and its the first time I am seeing an indian bowler who can provide extreme Pace and excitement. Hes the closest pace bowler to a Pakistani Player( His action resembles Waqar Younis). Lets not get ahead of ourselves and compare Pakistani bowlers to indian bowlers. We got bowlers like umran sitting on the bench or not even be selected. We dont constantly show their highlights and talk about how fast they are. Always leave the bowling to us, Never compare Pakistani pace bowlers to Indian bowlers. Its like comparing a fast maruti to a ferrari.

Except that for the last 7 years we have had a better and faster pace attack than Pakistan

 

[Sidilicious]

Some of our fans are comparing a 22 year old Umran Malik with a 19 year old Naseem Shah who is actually playing international cricket? As I said earlier, I saw similar arguments regarding Shaheen after his under 19 performances too. I also predicted that Shaheen will make his debut earlier than those under 19 Indian bowlers. Those bowlers are no where to be seen in International Cricket whereas Shaheen has become a household name after his performance against India in the T20 WC.

No, thanks. I would not want to compare any Indian bowler to Naseem Shah. There are enough talented ‘19 year old’ bowlers around in the world.

 

[Dagestani_Eagle]

Kashmiri Gujjars are different from Pakistani Gujjars. They are a nomadic cmmunity - in fact they dont even identify as Kashmiri unlike those from Kashmir valley

He's probably from Rajouri. That's why hardly any buzz about him in Kahsmir Valley.

 

[Major]

If umran malik isnt fast tracked into team and comes after some development in 2-4 years time and ends up being a good bowler, that would be a moment for Pakistan to learn from BCCI.

We fast tracked naseem, shaheen, musa, hasnain and rauf into the team after few psl games.

It took shaheen 2 years to make his mark in international cricket, while the rest still not able to hit that level.

Had umran malik been pakistani, i wouldnt had been surprised had he been making his international debut by now, only for him to be thrown back in the leagues.

Good luck to this guy, would be enjoyable to watch some.pace bowling if we ever face him

 

[daytrader]

'Pace not that important': Kapil Dev passes strong verdict on SRH quick Umran Malik's meteoric rise in IPL 2022

IPL 2022: Impressed with Umran Malik's pace, Kapil Dev reckons that while it is very heartening to see more fast bowlers coming through the ranks who can bowl at great speed, accuracy and disciplined are two equally important traits for a fast bowler.

Umran Malik's lightening quick pace has left the IPL buzzing. Umran, the Jammu & Kashmir pacer who is representing Sunrisers Hyderabad in IPL 2022 has made heads turn and left everyone impressed – from teammates to oppositions to former cricketers and India legends. Ravi Shastri has already earmarked him as one the future India players to look forward to, while Sunil Gavaskar believes Umran, in the time to come, will become an unplayable bowler for India.

After garnering praises from the whose who of Indian cricket, the legendary Kapil Dev, India's greatest cricketer and fast bowler of all time, has shared his thoughts on Umran and his tremendous rise in the IPL 2022. Impressed with Umran's pace, Kapil reckons that while it is very heartening to see more fast bowlers coming through the ranks who can bowl at great speed, accuracy and disciplined are two equally important traits for a fast bowler.

"Pace is not that important. Bowling consistently with good pace is more important. Doing it in one match is OK but doing it regularly over a period of 15-20 matches is more important. It's a great achievement. India didn't have pace bowlers earlier but we are now competing with the world thanks to the IPL," Kapil reporters in city after Karnavati University, a private university in Gandhinagar, announced the former India captain as its brand ambassador.

Kapil spoke about the emergence of new players in the IPL. Like each year, this year has seen another crop of youngsters in the likes of Ayush Badoni, Tilak Verma, Vaibhav Arora and of course Umran. Kapil feels the IPL has come a long way since its inception, and the way it has developed over the years, it is no surprise that more up and coming youngsters are making a mark in every season of the Indian Premier League.

"The Indian cricket board has placed a lot of importance on the infrastructure. This has been hugely beneficial to the young cricketers. The board has given facilities to players," added Kapil.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...ce-is-not-that-important-101650475322443.html

 

[cricketjoshila]

"Pace is not that important. Bowling consistently with good pace is more important.

Iska kya matlab hai?

 

[cricketjoshila]

If umran malik isnt fast tracked into team and comes after some development in 2-4 years time and ends up being a good bowler, that would be a moment for Pakistan to learn from BCCI.

We fast tracked naseem, shaheen, musa, hasnain and rauf into the team after few psl games.

It took shaheen 2 years to make his mark in international cricket, while the rest still not able to hit that level.

Had umran malik been pakistani, i wouldnt had been surprised had he been making his international debut by now, only for him to be thrown back in the leagues.

Good luck to this guy, would be enjoyable to watch some.pace bowling if we ever face him

Hearing he may debut for India this year, atleast in T20Is.

That would be disastrous. A 150k bowler should not be made to debut in T20Is. Better to give him chance in ODIs.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No, thanks. I would not want to compare any Indian bowler to Naseem Shah. There are enough talented ‘19 year old’ bowlers around in the world.

You are not going to but others are doing exactly that. Anyway who are the other "talented 19 year old bowlers" according to you?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

"Pace is not that important. Bowling consistently with good pace is more important.

Iska kya matlab hai?

Read the next line after that. You will get your answer.

"Doing it in one match is OK but doing it regularly over a period of 15-20 matches is more important."

 

[Ab Fan]

Umran Malik shouldn't be compared with Naseem Shah who starts bowling at 130 kph after one spell. He should set higher standards for him and look to become as good as the likes of Bumrah and Shami, the two best test bowlers from subcontinent to have debuted in this millenium. He has role models playing for India and he can take inspiration from them and learn to get his control better.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Umran Malik shouldn't be compared with Naseem Shah who starts bowling at 130 kph after one spell. He should set higher standards for him and look to become as good as the likes of Bumrah and Shami, the two best test bowlers from subcontinent to have debuted in this millenium. He has role models playing for India and he can take inspiration from them and learn to get his control better.

Umran said he likes how Bumrah bowls.

 

[TheSultan]

Umran Malik shouldn't be compared with Naseem Shah who starts bowling at 130 kph after one spell. He should set higher standards for him and look to become as good as the likes of Bumrah and Shami, the two best test bowlers from subcontinent to have debuted in this millenium. He has role models playing for India and he can take inspiration from them and learn to get his control better.

I really think Umran Malik has taken inspiration from Pakistani fast bowlers of the past. His action is a dead giveaway. And why not good on the kid. He’s not exactly gonna copy venkatesh prasad is he?

Umran doesn’t need to look up to bumrah - he’s already surpassed him in terms of speed. And bumrah has such an abomination of an action that learning off him World be difficult.

Shami is very hit n miss and only getting slower.

I think Naseem should show Umran the ropes when Umran is ready for international cricket. It will be a fantastic experience for Umran as well as a good show of unity between the two countries

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

Xciting talent. Hope he makes it and wears the hallowed india blue cap.

An out and out quickie would make such a different dimension to our attack. Hope he stays fit.
Amazing how much vitriol jazz boom attracts, especially his action. End of the day he is effective and has won us tests much more than many others people root for.
And his attitude is exemplary - fierce and competitive minus the ugly sledging and posturing - something no one gives him credit for.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

So 100s of posters on PP missed those deliveries of those bowlers that you mentioned.Nice coincidence. NOT.

He was bowling early to mid 140s with highest being 146.

You can be sarcastic all you want. However I would call it a happy coincidence.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Which side behind the keeper? Off or leg?

You are not a international bowler, or coach or captain, ofcourse Williamson,Steyn,Moody, Murali know a little bit more than you regarding fielding and field settings. Moody even mentioned that.

He is atleast 2 to 3 years from making his debut for India.

Neither. All 5 fielders behind the keeper on the boundary: Deep backward point, third man, long stop, (deep) fine leg and long leg.

I'm not. But that field setting alone goes to show the serious limitations of the spray gun in question.

If he really is 2-3 years away from making his debut for India than that's fine. All this stuff is fine. But something tells me he will be playing for India much earlier.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Umran Malik shouldn't be compared with Naseem Shah who starts bowling at 130 kph after one spell. He should set higher standards for him and look to become as good as the likes of Bumrah and Shami, the two best test bowlers from subcontinent to have debuted in this millenium. He has role models playing for India and he can take inspiration from them and learn to get his control better.

Clearly you have not watched Naseem bowl much because only that can explain you coming up with such a deluded an flat-out incorrect take.

Even during secondary spells Naseem consistently clocks 140+. Go watch his wickets against Australia a couple of weeks ago. He was dismissing Australian batters with searing pace and reverse swing. And you can't reverse the ball at 130...that's just a simple fact.

If you still have trouble believing that Naseem is quite literally one of the fastest test bowlers in the world, [MENTION=64288]ethan hunt[/MENTION] has shared a CricViz chart that accurately deficits that fact.

Umran would be lucky if he is half as good as Naseem is now three years from now. Bowling fast is one thing. Bowling fast, with skill and getting wickets against the No.1 test team in the world is another.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Umran Malik shouldn't be compared with Naseem Shah who starts bowling at 130 kph after one spell. He should set higher standards for him and look to become as good as the likes of Bumrah and Shami, the two best test bowlers from subcontinent to have debuted in this millenium. He has role models playing for India and he can take inspiration from them and learn to get his control better.

You could make that argument now. But that will change very soon when Shaheen leaves them both in the dust. No fast-bowler currently playing is as talented and gifted as Shaheen. The only pacer who is a more complete fast-bowler than Shaheen is Cummins. And none of them (Cummins included) have as much time left on their careers as Shaheen does.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

You could make that argument now. But that will change very soon when Shaheen leaves them both in the dust. No fast-bowler currently playing is as talented and gifted as Shaheen. The only pacer who is a more complete fast-bowler than Shaheen is Cummins. And none of them (Cummins included) have as much time left on their careers as Shaheen does.

You are right about Shaheen having more time than other bowlers. Shaheen has 95 wickets in 24 tests whereas Bumrah has 123 wickets in 29 tests. Bumrah is 28 and Shaheen is 22 only. I think Shaheen is going to overtake many other Pak fast bowlers in the upcoming years.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Except that for the last 7 years we have had a better and faster pace attack than Pakistan

Better, yes. Faster, no. Haris, Shaheen and Naseem is one of the fastest bowling attacks in the world. It’s a shame they go as fast to the boundary aswell most times.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You are right about Shaheen having more time than other bowlers. Shaheen has 95 wickets in 24 tests whereas Bumrah has 123 wickets in 29 tests. Bumrah is 28 and Shaheen is 22 only. I think Shaheen is going to overtake many other Pak fast bowlers in the upcoming years.

I hope he does. It's embarrassing for us that no fast-bowler since Wasim and Waqar has even been able to take 200 test wickets. Besides his young age, another big positive in Shaheen's case in that he is supremely fit. Far too often you see fast-bowlers of his age getting injured regularly. If he manages to stay fit and keep improving the sky is the limit.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You can be sarcastic all you want. However I would call it a happy coincidence.

You can lie all you want, it won't change the facts.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Better, yes. Faster, no. Haris, Shaheen and Naseem is one of the fastest bowling attacks in the world. It’s a shame they go as fast to the boundary aswell most times.

Haris doesn't even play test cricket. Naseem was dropped from tests before making a recent comeback.

Shaheen is the only constant.

 

[TheSultan]

Haris after his county stint will be a mainstay for tests. Naseem has proved his point. Shaheen we all know about.

So I think this proper PACE attack will be very exciting.

One day will see the pak PACE attack vs the Indian Seam-up bowling line up. Should be fun. I hope for viewership reasons Umran replaces one of the seam up medium pacers

 

[gazza619]

"Pace is not that important. Bowling consistently with good pace is more important.

Iska kya matlab hai?

He probably means that bowling 4 overs in a T20 circus at 150 kph is not that important. Bowling 15-20 overs in a day in a test match across a 3 test series at 142 kph is more important.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You can lie all you want, it won't change the facts.

The only liar here is you. Who is coming up with fictious speeds for his favorite bowlers just because he can't comprehend the fact that India has an awful track record of producing bowlers with some actual pace.

 

[giri26]

Don't care about pace as India have been producing bowlers who bowl at good pace and have been picking wickets. Over the years Indian bowlers have concentrated on playing longer with skill. All the current Indian bowlers came into the team for their pace. Mohammad Shami could bowl 145+ when he made his debut and so did Ishant & Bumrah. Umesh also started off bowling quick. All these bowlers over time cut down on pace and concentrated on skill and accuracy. They can still bowl that one quick spell in Tests if they want to, they were never express though. Ishant has 312 wickets, Shami 214, Umesh 158 and Bumrah 123. In the last 4 years Indian pace attack has the best average among all teams and if they can continue that as a fan I will be more happy than some arbitrary stat like who can bowl quick. There have been only 2 out and out quicks we have seen in our times Brett Lee & Shoaib Akthar. Akthar was marred by injuries and in his decade long career just played 48 Tests and could not even take 200 Test wickets. Brett Lee did better though and picked 300 Test wickets but was wayward at most times and averaged 30 in Tests.

Pakistan in almost 3 decades haven't produced a pacer who could take 200 Test wickets. They finally now have a bowler Shaheen who looks like will get there but again looking at the recent trend with Pakistan pacers, I will wait and watch.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Let’s use the right words here. India’s current attack is a good seam-up attack. They are not a “pace” attack. A couple of deliveries in the 140 region by one of two pacers is baby pace. I know it’s exciting for pace starved India, but it is still baby pace.

Umran Malik would be the first genuine pace bowler you would have on your history. And probably the best action.

I’ve seen a few Indian hype machines. They never last because their bodies can’t take it. Every hype job seems to have a bit of pace, but ultimately their actions are an abomination.

Under the covers they still have bowling actions that will make Abey Kuruvilla and Debashish Mohanty proud.

This combined with natural diet is why they cannot last.

Umran is a strong lad with a great action. If he stays fit and doesn’t get to play much for India, it will say a lot about their selection policy than him.

He would have hope in the very fair era of Kohli’s leadership. Don’t think any other captain / coach combo will be that fair

India has the best pace bowling attack in the world, period.
Dont care about anything else you have written, you don't seem to have a proper grasp of what fast bowling actually is.

Maybe Mcgrath, Ambrose, Hadlee, Anderson weren't 'pace' bowlers for you but for the more informed public they are legends.

You don’t need to have a 150+ bowler to have a great pace attack.

You keep the speed, I"ll take the wickets and averages.

 

[Ab Fan]

Naseem Shah at the moment is absolutely a nothing bowler. Bowling one spell with pace but no control doesn't make you a great bowler. He is basically what Umesh Yadav was when he started.

Any comparisons with Mohammad Shami or Jasprit Bumrah is ridiculous. He is not even 5% as good as them. If he improves which he can as age on his sides, he can become about 60% as good as Umesh Yadav level bowler by becoming as good as him as far as reverse swing skills is concerned but whether he will be able to learn the new ball art is a major question mark. In my opinion, he will do well to reach Umesh Yadav level who is actually a good test bowler but because India have number of quality pacers, he doesn't get as much games.

 

[gazza619]

Naseem Shah at the moment is absolutely a nothing bowler. Bowling one spell with pace but no control doesn't make you a great bowler. He is basically what Umesh Yadav was when he started.

Any comparisons with Mohammad Shami or Jasprit Bumrah is ridiculous. He is not even 5% as good as them. If he improves which he can as age on his sides, he can become about 60% as good as Umesh Yadav level bowler by becoming as good as him as far as reverse swing skills is concerned but whether he will be able to learn the new ball art is a major question mark. In my opinion, he will do well to reach Umesh Yadav level who is actually a good test bowler but because India have number of quality pacers, he doesn't get as much games.

Agreed. Naseem Shah at the moment has a very very low pedigree. Even lower than bad old M Sami who did win Pakistan a few games at the start of his career.

 

[Sidilicious]

I would rather Umran lost 5k of pace but was able to be spot on line and length with additional skill to make the ball talk.

Pace without control is nothing. Any bowler who can be accurate and have variations at 140K will have the chance of ending up as one of the greatest ever.

 

[TheSultan]

India has the best pace bowling attack in the world, period.
Dont care about anything else you have written, you don't seem to have a proper grasp of what fast bowling actually is.

Maybe Mcgrath, Ambrose, Hadlee, Anderson weren't 'pace' bowlers for you but for the more informed public they are legends.

You don’t need to have a 150+ bowler to have a great pace attack.

You keep the speed, I"ll take the wickets and averages.

Make your mind up. You start off saying India are pace bowlers and then at the end contradict yourself saying “keep the speed”

So overall it sounds like we’re in agreement and you spent a whole post getting angry for no reason. Mr jeeteshssaxena, please have some patience

 

[TheSultan]

I would rather Umran lost 5k of pace but was able to be spot on line and length with additional skill to make the ball talk.

Pace without control is nothing. Any bowler who can be accurate and have variations at 140K will have the chance of ending up as one of the greatest ever.

This is like accepting mediocrity. Why not ask the bowler to make the ball talk at 150?

Shoaib managed it, so did Waqar, Zahid, Lee etc.

I really think India are resigned to having medium pacers.

The other thing is no 2 bowlers need to be the same. You can have your conversational bowler who makes the ball talk and have an Enforcer who’s only job is to bowl fast and intimidate.

If you have both you’re quids-in

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I would rather Umran lost 5k of pace but was able to be spot on line and length with additional skill to make the ball talk.

Pace without control is nothing. Any bowler who can be accurate and have variations at 140K will have the chance of ending up as one of the greatest ever.

And this is why I was saying that he will lose his pace as soon he starts playing for India. This is the kind of mentality our coaches had and this is exactly the reason why India is struggling to unearth bowlers like Lee, Bond or Akhtar.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

India has the best pace bowling attack in the world, period.
Dont care about anything else you have written, you don't seem to have a proper grasp of what fast bowling actually is.

Maybe Mcgrath, Ambrose, Hadlee, Anderson weren't 'pace' bowlers for you but for the more informed public they are legends.

You don’t need to have a 150+ bowler to have a great pace attack.

You keep the speed, I"ll take the wickets and averages.

But our pace bowlers failed to take even a single wicket against Pakistan in a World Cup match recently.

 

[Sidilicious]

And this is why I was saying that he will lose his pace as soon he starts playing for India. This is the kind of mentality our coaches had and this is exactly the reason why India is struggling to unearth bowlers like Lee, Bond or Akhtar.

And neither of those 3 are actually an ATG test bowler. All ATG test bowlers bowled between 135-145K but knew how to make the ball talk.

Watching Akhtar was fun, but he was never a consistent match winner. Could not even take 200 wickets.

I would rather we have an ATG than a mediocre bowler

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Make your mind up. You start off saying India are pace bowlers and then at the end contradict yourself saying “keep the speed”

You know what I mean, by your definition of "pace" bowlers like Mcgrath, Anderson, Pollock won't qualify as pace bowlers.

I prefer 3-4 skillfull bowlers operating in 135-145 range over 150 kph rock throwers and scatterguns.

 

[Sidilicious]

This is like accepting mediocrity. Why not ask the bowler to make the ball talk at 150?

Shoaib managed it, so did Waqar, Zahid, Lee etc.

I really think India are resigned to having medium pacers.

The other thing is no 2 bowlers need to be the same. You can have your conversational bowler who makes the ball talk and have an Enforcer who’s only job is to bowl fast and intimidate.

If you have both you’re quids-in

Who in the world is Zahid in a discussion about test bowlers. Didn’t even play 5 tests.. And neither of the names mentioned were ATG. They either had the skill and the pace but could not last a full series - Akhtar and Bond, or they never had the control to be ATG level effective - Lee.

Only Waqar could be considered ATG, but he was not as fast as Akhtar/Lee/Bond.

The real bowling ATGs bowled in the high 130s and low 140s and could make the ball talk. Steyn, Akram, Marshall, Donald, IK. I would rather Umran became one of those, rather than a mediocre bowler who gets carted around or is mostly injured.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

This is like accepting mediocrity. Why not ask the bowler to make the ball talk at 150?

Shoaib managed it, so did Waqar, Zahid, Lee etc.

I really think India are resigned to having medium pacers.

The other thing is no 2 bowlers need to be the same. You can have your conversational bowler who makes the ball talk and have an Enforcer who’s only job is to bowl fast and intimidate.

If you have both you’re quids-in

Zahid? Who
Lee? 32 averaging test bowler? Sorry, no place in our side.
Waqar never bowled 150. Period.

Shoaib did that but we all know how his test career panned out, I would take a Bumrah over Shoaib anyday.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Also, this has been stated here quite a few times but lemme say it once again, Bumrah is a proper fast bowler not a medium fast pacer, Shami was a proper fast bowler not a medium pacer (due to age related issues his pace has dropped).
Similarly Prasidh and Umesh are fast bowlers not medium pacers.

None of them are express but all of them bowl 90+ quite often.

 

[Muddaser]

Zahid? Who
Lee? 32 averaging test bowler? Sorry, no place in our side.
Waqar never bowled 150. Period.

Shoaib did that but we all know how his test career panned out, I would take a Bumrah over Shoaib anyday.

Waqar never bowled 150kph? Seriously?

Here's a clip. There are many more.

 

[TheSultan]

Zahid? Who
Lee? 32 averaging test bowler? Sorry, no place in our side.
Waqar never bowled 150. Period.

Shoaib did that but we all know how his test career panned out, I would take a Bumrah over Shoaib anyday.

Waqar was timed at 153 in 1993 and was hitting 91-92mph in the odd spell 1999-2001.

He was at his fastest 1990-1994. 1991 he was an absolute speed demon. If you don’t think he hit 150, you must be a millennial who just started watching cricket a few years ago. Waqar was at least 150k if not late 150k especially 1990-91 before his back injuries.

The rest of it who you take or not is your preference master jeeteshssaxena. No issue my end at all.

But remember the true measure of the potency of a PACE / STRIKE bowler is strike rate. Averages are for the medium pace workhorses.

 

[Local.Dada]

Waqar never bowled 150kph? Seriously?

TBH I have only seen Waqar as a 135-142 bowler with the ball touching 145 once in a while. Same goes for Wasim though. However they had mad skills that made them ATGs. Doesn’t make them lesser bowlers.

I don’t think Waqar was any faster than Umesh Yadav or Shami. In fact on an average if he was faster than say someone like Umesh is also debatable because we look at some names with nostalgic eyes.

Maybe for a season or 2 Waqar hit 150 in the late 80-early 90 but there were shady/ outdated speed guns and spotty coverage so you can’t trust those.

 

[TheSultan]

Also, this has been stated here quite a few times but lemme say it once again, Bumrah is a proper fast bowler not a medium fast pacer, Shami was a proper fast bowler not a medium pacer (due to age related issues his pace has dropped).
Similarly Prasidh and Umesh are fast bowlers not medium pacers.

None of them are express but all of them bowl 90+ quite often.

Master jeeteshssaxena. Now now your another one getting excited little fella. Bumrah bowls a small fraction of his deliveries over 140k. Oh don’t get me wrong he is a wonderful medium pacer. But let’s not start dreaming.

 

[TheSultan]

TBH I have only seen Waqar as a 135-142 bowler with the ball touching 145 once in a while. Same goes for Wasim though. However they had mad skills that made them ATGs. Doesn’t make them lesser bowlers.

I don’t think Waqar was any faster than Umesh Yadav or Shami. In fact on an average if he was faster than say someone like Umesh is also debatable because we look at some names with nostalgic eyes.

Maybe for a season or 2 Waqar hit 150 in the late 80-early 90 but there were shady/ outdated speed guns and spotty coverage so you can’t trust those.

Ok riddle me this. Waqar was several notches below top pace in 1999-2003. Yet he hit almost a full 10 over spell at 90-92mph (145-148k) in 2001. In his last tournament he hit late 140s and crossed 140 on the odd occasion.

You really think he didn’t hit 150k in 1990-1994. There were no official speedguns. But you have to go by what others had said.

Dickie bird said Waqar was the fastest bowler he had ever seen.

Alec Stewart along with many England players have said Waqar was the quickest bowler through the air that they have faced.

So if Waqar was not a 150k bowler then no-one prior to 1999 was.

These kids don’t even know what they are watching

 

[TheSultan]

Maybe for a season or 2 Waqar hit 150 in the late 80-early 90 but there were shady/ outdated speed guns and spotty coverage so you can’t trust those.

Spotty coverage proves you never watched any of these players live. Ask us who watched Waqar live in the early 90s. In 1991 I watched him for Surrey and Pak live at the ground and I have never seen a keeper standing that far back since then and I’ve watched shoaib and lee bowl too live.

1992 he had noticeably lost a slight bit of pace. But 1991 Waqar was the quickest I’ve ever seen.

I never watched shoaib live in 2002, so he was probably quicker then

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

But our pace bowlers failed to take even a single wicket against Pakistan in a World Cup match recently.

- and thats the parameter/the high water mark of excellence? - not taking away any thing from pak , they were magnificient on the day and deserved winners, but no wickets in 20 overs ...wow

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

India would be lucky to have a bowler like Naseem Shah.

Naseem got 4 wickets on a dead-flat pitch against the No.1 test side in the world a month ago. His wickets were not achieved through rubbish line and length bowling that doesn't even get you wickets in most parts of the world, but by searing pace and reverse-swing.

Atleast 3 of those wickets that he took were unplayable deliveries. While the fourth was that of Steve Smith.

He is doing all this at 19 years of age.

Let me repeat, India would be lucky to have a fast-bowler like Naseem Shah. They are not. But if he was Indian, the entire Indian cricket machine would be working day and night to ensure this kid is the next big Indian bowling star. That's how desperate India is for fast-bowlers with some actual pace.

And Naseem doesn't just have that. He has skills well beyond his years too. He still has a long way to go in honing those skills, but still there is not a single fast-bowler in the world right now that is his age and as good or as developed.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

And neither of those 3 are actually an ATG test bowler. All ATG test bowlers bowled between 135-145K but knew how to make the ball talk.

Watching Akhtar was fun, but he was never a consistent match winner. Could not even take 200 wickets.

I would rather we have an ATG than a mediocre bowler

Shoaib, Bond and Lee were mediocre bowlers lol? You would rather have an ATG than a mediocre bowler? But how do you know which bowler is an ATG and which one is mediocre before even giving them a chance? If those bowlers were mediocre then what will you call Umran Malik? Shoaib not taking 200 wickets had more to do with injuries and controversies than his abilities. It seems watching too much of Pyjama Cricket has corrupted your brain.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

You know what I mean, by your definition of "pace" bowlers like Mcgrath, Anderson, Pollock won't qualify as pace bowlers.

I prefer 3-4 skillfull bowlers operating in 135-145 range over 150 kph rock throwers and scatterguns.

Also, this has been stated here quite a few times but lemme say it once again, Bumrah is a proper fast bowler not a medium fast pacer, Shami was a proper fast bowler not a medium pacer (due to age related issues his pace has dropped).
Similarly Prasidh and Umesh are fast bowlers not medium pacers.

None of them are express but all of them bowl 90+ quite often.

On one hand you are saying that you prefer 135-145 range bowlers and on the other hand you are getting offended when someone calls Bumrah medium fast pacer. Bhai kehna kya chahte ho? You want them to bowl phaasht like Akhtar, don't you?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Some of the posts by my fellow Indian posters shows why we never had express fast bowlers and their lack of knowledge about fast bowling is astonishing. India got 2-3 good bowlers and our fans have started calling bowlers like Akhtar, Lee etc mediocre.

 

[TheSultan]

On one hand you are saying that you prefer 135-145 range bowlers and on the other hand you are getting offended when someone calls Bumrah medium fast pacer. Bhai kehna kya chahte ho? You want them to bowl phaasht like Akhtar, don't you?

Exactly my point! Master jeetsaxena seems very confused!

 

[ethan hunt]

Zahid? Who
Lee? 32 averaging test bowler? Sorry, no place in our side.
Waqar never bowled 150. Period.

Shoaib did that but we all know how his test career panned out, I would take a Bumrah over Shoaib anyday.

Waqar never bowled 150 lmao


Indian really know nothing about pace , heard so much about the pace of the indian bowlers and when saw them in the t20 wc they were trundlers infront of shaheen and haris .

Similarly all this talk about speed in test cricket and naseem is the fastest bowler from Asia in tests by a country mile.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India would be lucky to have a bowler like Naseem Shah.

Naseem got 4 wickets on a dead-flat pitch against the No.1 test side in the world a month ago. His wickets were not achieved through rubbish line and length bowling that doesn't even get you wickets in most parts of the world, but by searing pace and reverse-swing.

Atleast 3 of those wickets that he took were unplayable deliveries. While the fourth was that of Steve Smith.

He is doing all this at 19 years of age.

Let me repeat, India would be lucky to have a fast-bowler like Naseem Shah. They are not. But if he was Indian, the entire Indian cricket machine would be working day and night to ensure this kid is the next big Indian bowling star. That's how desperate India is for fast-bowlers with some actual pace.

And Naseem doesn't just have that. He has skills well beyond his years too. He still has a long way to go in honing those skills, but still there is not a single fast-bowler in the world right now that is his age and as good or as developed.

Naseem presently is poor. Nothing else.

Indian bowlers have had Aussie batsman in Australia and in India. We all know what Naseem Shah did in Australia.

Thanks but presently he is rubbish and pakistan ko hi Mubarak ho.

Mcgrath Pollock Walsh Hadlee and many like them got wickets through line and length and became ATG.

Who the hell is Naseem Shah?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Zahid? Who
Lee? 32 averaging test bowler? Sorry, no place in our side.
Waqar never bowled 150. Period.

Shoaib did that but we all know how his test career panned out, I would take a Bumrah over Shoaib anyday.

You are absolutely correct about Zahid, WHO.

Waqar was a 150k bowler for 3-4 years. He was timed at 153ks in England and South Africa. He was timed at 150ks in NZ too.

But the quickest he was timed was 153ks and not more than that.

Lee was a good test bowler.

Bumrah is a better bowler than Akhtar and the stats say the same.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Master jeeteshssaxena. Now now your another one getting excited little fella. Bumrah bowls a small fraction of his deliveries over 140k. Oh don’t get me wrong he is a wonderful medium pacer. But let’s not start dreaming.

He is a fast bowler and regularly bowls above 140ks and there is no Pakistani fast bowler better than him since the 2Ws retired.

As i told you, you can crack your jokes here on PP among your pakistani brethren, outside of this, its trolling.

 

[Local.Dada]

You are absolutely correct about Zahid, WHO.

Waqar was a 150k bowler for 3-4 years. He was timed at 153ks in England and South Africa. He was timed at 150ks in NZ too.

But the quickest he was timed was 153ks and not more than that.

Lee was a good test bowler.

Bumrah is a better bowler than Akhtar and the stats say the same.

If we are talking about just clocking 150, then even Ishant Sharma, Varun Aaron have.

On an average Wasim-Waqar were slower than Umesh or even Shami.

 

[Local.Dada]

Spotty coverage proves you never watched any of these players live. Ask us who watched Waqar live in the early 90s. In 1991 I watched him for Surrey and Pak live at the ground and I have never seen a keeper standing that far back since then and I’ve watched shoaib and lee bowl too live.

1992 he had noticeably lost a slight bit of pace. But 1991 Waqar was the quickest I’ve ever seen.

I never watched shoaib live in 2002, so he was probably quicker then

I don’t think most Indians who grew up in India have watched Waqar before 91 because we did not have foreign sports networks and the kind of global coverage we have now. Since 1991-1992 however I can say I have seen a lot of Waqar Younis.

He was 135-145 range bowler at best. With a few balls at 140+. When a scruffed up ball is reverse swinging like a banana against tailenders even Unadkut would look 10k more than he does.

You are looking at it with nostalgic eyes.

I have seen Waqar bowl in Australia and barely touch 145 while Ishant Sharma was clocking 150 comfortably in 2012 tour out pacing Johnson and a young Starc. Obviously not comparing the 2.

 

[Local.Dada]

Waqar was timed at 153 in 1993 and was hitting 91-92mph in the odd spell 1999-2001.

He was at his fastest 1990-1994. 1991 he was an absolute speed demon. If you don’t think he hit 150, you must be a millennial who just started watching cricket a few years ago. Waqar was at least 150k if not late 150k especially 1990-91 before his back injuries.

The rest of it who you take or not is your preference master jeeteshssaxena. No issue my end at all.

But remember the true measure of the potency of a PACE / STRIKE bowler is strike rate. Averages are for the medium pace workhorses.

https://youtu.be/gc5verJFj_o

Don’t know how to embed the video but Wasim Waqar bowling in the early 130’s

This was 3 years before retirement. I think Pak won this game so enjoy. Razzaq and Shoaib (obviously) look sharper here. Wasim was obviously a swing bowler by then.

 

[sweep_shot]

He is continuing to impress.

A proper fast bowler.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If we are talking about just clocking 150, then even Ishant Sharma, Varun Aaron have.

On an average Wasim-Waqar were slower than Umesh or even Shami.

No. Waqar in early 90s was genuinely quick. And so was Aaron.

In early 90s Waqar was usually 145 plus and early 150s and highest being 153ks