[VIDEOS] Jewish people against Zionism

[WhenSultansBowled]

These last few days a lot of Jewish people have raised voices against Zionist bombing of Gaza.

Just for sake of clarity, it is very important to have a clear definition of Jew and Zionist:

Jew
1: a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people
2: one whose religion is Judaism

First Known Use of Jew
13th century

Zionism
an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel

First Known Use of Zionism
1890

Source Merriam-Webster

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Many Zionists (Evangelical Americans, European Atheist Bankers and lately Indians etc. etc.) have nothing to do with religion of Judaism. As a matter of fact these people don't even know basics of Abrahamic religions.

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IJAN: International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network

http://www.ijan.org/who-we-are/charter/

Charter of the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network

We are an international network of Jews who are uncompromisingly committed to struggles for human emancipation, of which the liberation of the Palestinian people and land is an indispensable part. Our commitment is to the dismantling of Israeli apartheid, the return of Palestinian refugees, and the ending of the Israeli colonization of historic Palestine.

From Poland to Iraq, from Argentina to South Africa, from Brooklyn to Mississippi, Jews have taken up their quest for justice, and their desire for a more just world, by joining with others in collective struggles. Jews participated prominently in the workers’ struggle of the depression era, in the civil rights movement, in the struggle against South African Apartheid, in the struggle against fascism in Europe, and in many other movements for social and political change. The State of Israel’s historic and ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people from their land contradicts and betrays these long histories of Jewish participation in collective liberation struggles.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Zionism

the founding and current ideology that manifested in the State of Israel—took root in the era of European colonialism and was spread in the aftermath of the Nazi genocide. Zionism has been nourished by the most violent and oppressive histories of the nineteenth Century, at the expense of the many strains of Jewish commitment to liberation. To reclaim them, and a place in the vibrant popular movements of our time, Zionism, in all its forms, must be stopped.

Source: IJAN.org International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network
[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] please read it. This is what I was trying to say with my limited English in other thread.

 

[RexRex]

can any Jew who wants Israel to exist be called a Zionist ? There should be more clarity to this term.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

can any Jew who wants Israel to exist be called a zionist ?

Any person (Jew, Muslim, Christian, Hindu or Atheist etc.) who supports Israel is called Zionist.

 

[RexRex]

Any person (Jew, Muslim, Christian, Hindu or Atheist etc.) who supports Israel is called Zionist.

So it is not a perjorative term? I see it used in such a manner by so many people on social media.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Toronto activists paint Israeli consulate steps with 'river of blood' after more than 200 Palestinia

Jews around the world are raising their voices against Israel's terror against Palestine

Toronto activists paint Israeli consulate steps with 'river of blood' after more than 200 Palestinians killed, 66 children

TORONTO -- The steps of the Israeli consulate in Toronto were painted red today as some members of the Jewish community and other activists condemned Israel’s violence in Gaza that led to the death of more than 200 Palestinians, including 66 children.

Source: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-...200-palestinians-killed-66-children-1.5438653

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

So it is not a perjorative term? I see it used in such a manner by so many people on social media.

On the contrary.

Zionists exploit the horrors of Holocaust to justify Israel terrorism.

Imagine for a second, you are descendent of one of the Jews who were murdered by Nazis in 1940s in Auschwitz... and they use your family's suffering to justify murder of Palestinian children...

Spoiler

"I don't care about crocodile tears. If you have heart, you should cry for Palestenians"
-- Norman Finkelstein

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Neturei Karta

Neturei Karta (a Jewish group) opposed the establishment of and retain all opposition to the existence of the so-called "State of Israel"!

https://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/index.cfm

Neturei Karta is a Jewish group whose controversial solution to the bloodshed in Gaza is to bring about the end of the Israeli state. RT.com spoke to Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss, who explained why they think this is necessary.
It’s not often you encounter a Rabbi with a Palestinian flag pinned to their jacket. But then Neturei Karta are anything but conventional.

They are a religious group of Haredi Jews whose name in Aramaic means ‘Protectors of the City’. The city in question is Jerusalem and the group is founded on their refusal to accept or recognise the state of Israel. Confused?

One of their main figures, Rabbi Weiss, explained their position to RT. He said, “Zionism is the transformation of Judaism, from religion, from subservience to God, into a material concept of nationalism. This is unacceptable to the ones who want to serve God. In order to create this nationalism, they are removing God from the equation.

“We were warned by the prophets that we would be expelled from the land and that happened with the destruction of the temple [in Jerusalem] 2,000 years ago. We were not to return in mass – it’s a godly decreed exile – and we’re also not to rebel against any nation we reside in. We are to be loyal citizens and pray for the well-being of the land that is our hosts. We also should never make any attempt to end exile.”

For those unfamiliar with the Torah – the central part of the Jewish bible – these sentiments may be fairly revolutionary. Neturei Karta believe they are following their holy book, and that leaving Palestine was an act of God. They also think their religion commands them to publicly protest against what they deem transgressions in the name of Judaism. They particularly want to make people understand there is a fundamental difference between an Israeli and a Jew.

Rabbi Weiss continued, “[Zionists’] goal was to have their material state, and whatever stood in their way didn’t bother them. The Torah says thou shall not steal’ so every concept of Zionism is breaching the Torah. They knew our religion does not call for us to take up arms and take over the land. On the contrary, we are forbidden.”

Israel was formed in 1948 and the following year was admitted into the United Nations. There’s a widely accepted narrative of how Israeli forces seized the land and property of the Palestinians, who were mostly Muslim. This was all done under the premise of creating “a national home for the Jewish people” and the British government had set this in motion during World War I with the Balfour Declaration.

Israel is now a modern country with a formidable army and successful technology industry. However, the way the state has treated the Palestinian people, who have been annexed into Gaza and the West Bank with limited rights, has left it open to criticism.

Rabbi Weiss said, “They mooched the Star of David from us and claim to the world they are doing God’s will, that is to intimidate so that anybody who dares to speak up against them is an anti-Semite. It’s ludicrous, and a tragedy, as they don’t represent our Torah. “

Neturei Karta claims to represent Jewish communities and says Israel has created a fake legitimacy. Although Israel has a Chief Rabbi and a Rabbinate, the Jewish faith also has this structure independently. It’s via this religious doctrine that Israel justifies its continued seizing of Palestinian land, which Israeli settlers then live on – and this process is one of the major flashpoints between the two states. It was an attempt to remove Palestinians from Sheikh Jarrah that sparked the recent spate of conflict.

Rabbi Weiss added, “The Zionists constantly try to incorporate the Torah into their monster called the state of Israel. They have a Chief Rabbi, a Rabbinate; it’s all window dressing, they rubber stamp whatever Israel does and create an aura of holiness.

“There are, unfortunately, many college students, most from non-religious families or nominally religious, who fall into the trap of Zionist propaganda and speak with emotion by saying ‘for 2,000 years we’ve been in exile, we’ve suffered and God is giving us back the land’. But that’s ignoring what it says in the Torah.

“People think to be a hero for Judaism they have to go back to Israel and go to the settlements. We’re not condoning violence, but they are inciting it by throwing out the Arab people like they’re doing now in Sheikh Jarrah. An action beings a reaction; what do you expect? That’s why there is bloodshed.”

But not everyone agrees and there are those who are critical of Neturei Karta’s “willingness to meet with the vilest of extremists.” Group members admit they’ve met the leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah, both regarded by many countries as terrorist organisations. They’ve also spoken to former Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the late PLO leader Yasser Arafat and Gaza’s de facto ruler Ismail Haniyeh. And they have even shared a platform with the former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke.

Rabbi Weiss said, “The leadership of Hamas say they have nothing against Jews and want to live together. Both Hamas and Hezbollah want a peaceful dismantlement of the state; we also want that. We understand the core issue is not Hamas, the problem is in 1948 they ratified a monster called the Zionist state of Israel that came and occupied another people. Everything that is happening is only a reaction to this terrible injustice.

“Before I start interviews, they ask me do you condemn Hamas? And if not, psychologically they say ‘he is not condemning them, so it’s not worth it to listen to him because he is a terrorist’.”

“The terrorism is the creation of the state and the ongoing existence of that state, so that every day a child is born in Palestine and they suffer. They see their family members die and they have an ingrained hate for the Jewish people if it’s not clarified to them. It’s being done in our name, with our symbols; the hypocrisy is beyond words.”

Another accusation levelled at Neturei Karta is that they are Holocaust deniers. Rabbi Weiss refutes this. He stressed, “My grandparents were killed in Auschwitz as were the majority of my family [on] both sides. My father escaped when the Nazis came to Hungary and almost entirely all of our anti-Zionist communities are immigrant people who are the remnants of families who escaped from Hitler. So, we don’t deny the Holocaust because it’s in our blood.”

According to Rabbi Weiss, part of the complexity of the situation is that many Jews in Israel feel no loyalty to the state, but are unable to speak out.

He confirmed that if he was to visit Israel, he would expect to be arrested and put in jail. “Many of us don’t go visit on principle… [and] every boy and girl from our community becomes a criminal when they turn 17 as they refuse to go there to do national service in the IDF [Israel Defense Forces].

“They are always accusing us of being evil simply because we’re practising Judaism; they can only vilify the Jews who stand up and say, ‘I’ve been living with my Palestinian neighbours in peace for years’, we have a distinctly different religion but we lived together in peace. They came with their selfish, politically flawed concept without asking the indigenous people.”

Neterei Karta’s mission is not just to highlight the difference between Zionism and Judaism; it wants to see the peaceful destruction of Israel. Understandably, many see the removal of a state and its 9.4-million population as a bizarre concept.

Rabbi Weiss explained, “Every 10 years or so the state of Israel has a war, they never have true peace. We believe it’s what God told us. We believe Israel will end because it’s a direct rebellion against God, we are forbidden to have a Jewish state. We have to speak up and try to plead with world leaders to stop supporting this occupation and try to bring relief to the Palestinian people, but ultimately, it’s the Almighty who will bring an end.

“You may think Israel is set in stone but it doesn’t have to go on. It was only 73 years ago and the world went on hunky dory without them coming along. We could live without them.”

The Rabbi believes Israel should be renamed and a Palestinian state created in its place. He then feels it could be a home to both Jewish and Muslim people, like it was for hundreds of years before.

He reflected, “South Africa looked hopeless, but once there was pressure to stop apartheid, the whole concept changed. The whole concept of Palestine could be changed from a so-called Jewish state to a Free State of Palestine. What would be so bad? It’s only an aberration of the last 70-odd years that we’ve not been living in peace. We lived together as brothers and sisters in Palestine, and flourished.”


Some critics refuse to offer Neutrei Karta a platform due to the accusations around its conduct and relationships. But the group is adamant it will continue to do its work, as, for them, it’s a God-given mandate.

Rabbi Weiss admitted, “We’re jaded a little; we have seen so many atrocities… in Gaza and the West Bank. There are always people who are pleasantly surprised and some who are shocked. Of course, the ones who are Zionists are aghast; they say we’re anti-Semitic and what we are doing will cause Jewish bloodshed.

“They attack Gaza with drones, people are murdered day in, day out – and every person has a family. Every member is affected and all those in the refugee camps living in squalor, do you think they grow up loving Jews?

“We tell them we hurt with you, and tell them the Jewish people don’t accept what Zionists are doing. It totally defies logic on every level, but the world buys into the Zionist propaganda and their PR machine. We want to stop the bloodshed and build bridges.”

Think your friends would be interested? Share this story!

Source: https://www.rt.com/op-ed/524455-neturei-karta-rabbi-weiss-israel/

This is for the Islamophobe neo-Zionists who are spreading lies, hate and misinformation at PakPassion in these past few weeks.

 

[Zaz]

Many many jews around the world are against the violence apartheid and subjugation of the palestinians by the zionist state

They feel rightly so that their religion and past sufferings have been hijacked to continue and justify the violence on the palestinians

 

[Itachi]

I have cited OP already in another thread.

Why zionism is bad?

Muslims wants to prosper their own people.

Then why it is wrong if a Jewish person wants the same?

 

[Zaz]

I have cited OP already in another thread.

Why zionism is bad?

Muslims wants to prosper their own people.

Then why it is wrong if a Jewish person wants the same?

Its discriminatory in nature thats why As we are seeing in what is happening in palestine at the moment

Theres not a problem with wanting your people to prosper but it shouldnt be at the expense of others

 

[Itachi]

Its discriminatory in nature thats why As we are seeing in what is happening in palestine at the moment

Theres not a problem with wanting your people to prosper but it shouldnt be at the expense of others

How it is a discrimination?

 

[Zaz]

How it is a discrimination?

Like i said at the expense of others is discriminatory

You dont think segregation, no votes or legal nationality, seperation barriers or illegally occupying palestinian land isnt discrimination?

State laws should be equal for all its residents no?

 

[Itachi]

Like i said at the expense of others is discriminatory

You dont think segregation, no votes or legal nationality, seperation barriers or illegally occupying palestinian land isnt discrimination?

State laws should be equal for all its residents no?

This comes to age old philosophy.

The world has limited resources. Hence, if you are doing something yourself, for you, another person will face hard time.

For example, I am sure you have a job. Had you not apply, who knows there could have been a guy or girl who got the job who has ill parents at home to look after in the brink of financial downfall due to years of treatment.

If you are going for something, there will always be someone at the receiving end.

 

[Firebat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jewish New Yorkers stand with Palestine. That’s it. That’s the tweet. <a href="https://t.co/hyNzmGLtSc">pic.twitter.com/hyNzmGLtSc</a></p>— Jewish Voice for Peace NYC #SaveSheikhJarrah (@jvpliveNY) <a href="https://twitter.com/jvpliveNY/status/1396139657205792774?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Zaz]

This comes to age old philosophy.

The world has limited resources. Hence, if you are doing something yourself, for you, another person will face hard time.

For example, I am sure you have a job. Had you not apply, who knows there could have been a guy or girl who got the job who has ill parents at home to look after in the brink of financial downfall due to years of treatment.

If you are going for something, there will always be someone at the receiving end.

Lol serious? Your comparing this to a job

Theres more than a slight difference between that and me coming and thowing you out of your home, with violence maybe killing you and violating your rights daily

Lets get real Why are you so determined to play it out like some real estate dispute rather than calling it out for what it is really is ?

 

[Itachi]

Lol serious? Your comparing this to a job

Theres more than a slight difference between that and me coming and thowing you out of your home, with violence maybe killing you and violating your rights daily

Lets get real Why are you so determined to play it out like some real estate dispute rather than calling it out for what it is really is ?

Because the initiation of any event is a complex phenomenon where prior incidents adds up thus triggering a chain of reaction.

world war 1 or world war 2 didn't happen in one day. Of course there were events that triggered it but as a whole it was boiling and boiling for years only to erupt at some point of time which it did.

You can not take a narrow time of frame and declare who is innocent or who is guilty party. You'll have to take overall picture.

This is why, even in international court of law, while giving judgement, the court traces back to treaties that were signed in early 1900s in order to trace back origin rather than just taking narrow time range.

Read the cases of Palestine vs Israel in ICJ. It's very transparent there and written in details.

 

[Zaz]

This comes to age old philosophy.

The world has limited resources. Hence, if you are doing something yourself, for you, another person will face hard time.

For example, I am sure you have a job. Had you not apply, who knows there could have been a guy or girl who got the job who has ill parents at home to look after in the brink of financial downfall due to years of treatment.

If you are going for something, there will always be someone at the receiving end.

Should state laws discriminate between people along ethnic or religious lines ? Its a simple qs

 

[Itachi]

Should state laws discriminate between people along ethnic or religious lines ? Its a simple qs

No. I believe egalitarian.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

True antisemitism is to justify violence in the name of Judaism.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Einstein Letter Warning Of Zionist Facism In Israel

Einstein Letter Warning Of Zionist Facism In Israel

Letter That Albert Einstein Sent to the New York Times
1948, Protesting the Visit of Menachem Begin

Letters to the Editor
New York Times
December 4, 1948

TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.


Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement. The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.


Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants ? 240men, women, and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin. The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model. During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ
HANNAH ARENDT
ABRAHAM BRICK
RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO
ALBERT EINSTEIN
HERMAN EISEN, M.D.
HAYIM FINEMAN
M. GALLEN, M.D.
H.H. HARRIS
ZELIG S. HARRIS
SIDNEY HOOK
FRED KARUSH
BRURIA KAUFMAN
IRMA L. LINDHEIM
NACHMAN MAISEL
SEYMOUR MELMAN
MYER D. MENDELSON
M.D., HARRY M. OSLINSKY
SAMUEL PITLICK
FRITZ ROHRLICH
LOUIS P. ROCKER
RUTH SAGIS
ITZHAK SANKOWSKY
I.J. SHOENBERG
SAMUEL SHUMAN
M. SINGER
IRMA WOLFE
STEFAN WOLF.

New York, Dec. 2, 1948

Source: http://wilsonweb.physics.harvard.ed...tter_Warning_Of_Zionist_Facism_In_Israel.html

More information regarding terrorist organization Albert Einstein is referring to: Irgun Zvai Leumi https://www.britannica.com/topic/Irgun-Zvai-Leumi

 

[Zaz]

No. I believe egalitarian.

So why are you backing the zionists states policies and principles? Their policy is run on zionism

 

[Zaz]

A state for jews is not the issue these days

Hamas Fatah etc have all said under the right conditions they will accept the reality of the state of israel

The problem is that the rights of palestinians are not being given whether thats under one state or a two state solution The palestinian live as 2nd class citizens They are being marginalised based on religion and ethnicity

 

[Itachi]

So why are you backing the zionists states policies and principles? Their policy is run on zionism

So does Islamic states including Pakistan (discrimination via religion). Why israel should make a difference?

 

[Zaz]

So does Islamic states including Pakistan (discrimination via religion). Why israel should make a difference?

No it doesnt, there maybe discrimination just like in india but its not state sanctioned discrimination

Pakistan doesnt have apartheid walls, doesnt ethnically cleanse people based on race or religion , doesnt annex non muslim land or property, all are citizens and have one vote etc etc

Its not apartheid state like israel

 

[Itachi]

No it doesnt, there maybe discrimination just like in india but its not state sanctioned discrimination

Pakistan doesnt have apartheid walls, doesnt ethnically cleanse people based on race or religion , doesnt annex non muslim land or property, all are citizens and have one vote etc etc

Its not apartheid state like israel

Pakistan doesn't discriminate based upon religion? you sure about that?

Because the constitution of Pakistan tells otherwise and IT IS state sanctioned discrimination since it's in the constituition itself.

 

[Zaz]

Pakistan doesn't discriminate based upon religion? you sure about that?

Because the constitution of Pakistan tells otherwise and IT IS state sanctioned discrimination since it's in the constituition itself.

Does pakistan have apartheid walls, checkpoints for non muslims or ID cards, steal non muslim land or property or not give non muslims non citizenship or no vote etc etc?

Simple question

 

[Zaz]

So does Islamic states including Pakistan (discrimination via religion). Why israel should make a difference?

Pakistan is now being compared to israel now on discrimination lol

Pls stop with the jokes

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Pakistan doesn't discriminate based upon religion? you sure about that?

Because the constitution of Pakistan tells otherwise and IT IS state sanctioned discrimination since it's in the constituition itself.

Almost all of the discrimination based upon religion in Pakistan effects Muslims not non Muslims.

1 - Its not legal for Muslims to drink alcohol.
2 - Muslim women are not allowed to marry non Muslim men, while Muslim men can marry Christian and Jewish women legally.
3 - Their is a religious based quota in parliament and for jobs, which discriminates against Muslims, as non Muslims can still contest general seats and apply for jobs in the non minority section.
4 - Sunni Muslims have to pay zakat. banks take 2.5% out every year.
5 - A Muslim sect called Ahmadi were declared non Muslim.


For non Muslims you cant be PM or President. Which while wrong, in a country that is 97% Muslim, would be almost impossible anyway.

 

[Itachi]

Does pakistan have apartheid walls, checkpoints for non muslims or ID cards, steal non muslim land or property or not give non muslims non citizenship or no vote etc etc?

Simple question

How will I know? I haven't been to Pakistan.

But state sanctioned does exist because it's in the constituition itself. No matter what the govt will be, it will follow the same state sanctioned discrimination since it's in the constituition itself.

 

[Itachi]

delete.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Can a non muslim contest for head of the country in case of Pakistan?

Yes or no?

That was already in my post. Its the last sentence.

 

[Itachi]

For non Muslims you cant be PM or President. Which while wrong, in a country that is 97% Muslim, would be almost impossible anyway.

I have no words for your justification. I will let others to decide. While talking about equality and justice for palestinians, you one the same hand uttering above.

That's the hypocrisy now a days many Muslims does have.

 

[Zaz]

How will I know? I haven't been to Pakistan.

But state sanctioned does exist because it's in the constituition itself. No matter what the govt will be, it will follow the same state sanctioned discrimination since it's in the constituition itself.

So you dont know if pakistan is an apartheid state or not like israel but you were quick to compare the discrimination in israel to muslim states like pakistan

Thankyou

 

[Itachi]

Pakistan is now being compared to israel now on discrimination lol

Pls stop with the jokes

Gharib Aadmi has better knowledge in this regard and though I do oppose his views, he does gives out explanation which I do respect.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I have no words for your justification. I will let others to decide. While talking about equality and justice for palestinians, you one the same hand uttering above.

That's the hypocrisy now a days many Muslims does have.

How did i justify it when i said it was wrong?

 

[Itachi]

So you dont know if pakistan is an apartheid state or not like israel but you were quick to compare the discrimination in israel to muslim states like pakistan

Thankyou

Its about principles.

You asked whether state sanctioned discrimination exists or not.

The answer is, it exists in most countries.

You are ignoring the state sanctioned discrimination of Islamic states while opposing israel.

That's double standard.

 

[Itachi]

How did i justify it when i said it was wrong?

You justified it via since probability will be low, so the discrimination doesn't matter much in the end.

But discrimination isn't about consequences rather why it exists in the first place since state sanctioned discrimination is a parasite which grows from one root and then starts to engulf over the years.

 

[Zaz]

Its about principles.

You asked whether state sanctioned discrimination exists or not.

The answer is, it exists in most countries.

You are ignoring the state sanctioned discrimination of Islamic states while opposing israel.

That's double standard.

The only one like gharib said is pm or president post What other state sanctioned is there like one that affects the day to day life on the avge non muslim?

Pakistan isnt perfect but there is no comparison as you are making out with israel No comparison whatsoever

You seem to be deliberately refusing to discuss the apartheid system israel has for the palestinians

 

[Zaz]

Israel should tear the walls of apartheid down and go down the one vote one country route

A country for the jews but not subjugate and oppress the non jew

The crimes theyve committed theyve done But redeem themselves accept your errors and learn from the mistakes Have a reconciliation

They ll never get anywhere or have peace by killing and discriminating the palestinians

 

[Itachi]

The only one like gharib said is pm or president post What other state sanctioned is there like one that affects the day to day life on the avge non muslim?

Pakistan isnt perfect but there is no comparison as you are making out with israel No comparison whatsoever

You seem to be deliberately refusing to discuss the apartheid system israel has for the palestinians

The subject is, I am reminding you, state sanctioned discrimination.

discrimination based upon state policy/constitution can take any shape or form.

Its about principles. Since state discrimination exists in the Islamic in favor of muslims, why if israel does it, it is to be blamed?

 

[Itachi]

Israel should tear the walls of apartheid down and go down the one vote one country route

A country for the jews but not subjugate and oppress the non jew

The crimes theyve committed theyve done But redeem themselves accept your errors and learn from the mistakes Have a reconciliation

They ll never get anywhere or have peace by killing and discriminating the palestinians

The successful first world countries are built by exploitation through colony to sustain the high development in medieval and industrial era. Reality is different than what one may wishes for.

Israel has held up high and earned the respect from the community.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You justified it via since probability will be low, so the discrimination doesn't matter much in the end.

But discrimination isn't about consequences rather why it exists in the first place since state sanctioned discrimination is a parasite which grows from one root and then starts to engulf over the years.

If it was up to me i would get rid of the law. And if tomorrow the govt gets rid of i would say good riddance. I support a secular Pakistan, like how Jinnah wanted it.

However I do think we need to weigh the impact that the discrimination of the law will have when deciding on how much outrage one should have over it.

For example its wrong that Muslims cant legally drink in Pakistan. However whether you are rich, middle class, poor, you can get alcohol easily, and the government does not really care. So its not a huge deal.

 

[Zaz]

The successful first world countries are built by exploitation through colony to sustain the high development in medieval and industrial era. Reality is different than what one may wishes for.

Israel has held up high and earned the respect from the community.

I agree hence why i can understand why the western govts would turn a blind eye They did the same in south africa because human rights dont matter Money matters

Its on an individual level where my concern is why some would think this is acceptable

 

[Zaz]

The subject is, I am reminding you, state sanctioned discrimination.

discrimination based upon state policy/constitution can take any shape or form.

Its about principles. Since state discrimination exists in the Islamic in favor of muslims, why if israel does it, it is to be blamed?

Why was apartheid soutb africa abhorred and been done with?

Its not difficult to understand Because the killing of a set of people and apartheid of them is generally unacceptable in this day and age Its not just discrimination in israel alone it is ethnic cleansing

Arr you ok for this to happen?

 

[Itachi]

Why was apartheid soutb africa abhorred and been done with?

Its not difficult to understand Because the killing of a set of people and apartheid of them is generally unacceptable in this day and age Its not just discrimination in israel alone it is ethnic cleansing

Arr you ok for this to happen?

Its not ethnic cleansing if two groups are fighting among each other.

Its a clash between two ethno groups.

Otherwise, most conflicts in this world will point to ethnic cleansing.

 

[Itachi]

If it was up to me i would get rid of the law. And if tomorrow the govt gets rid of i would say good riddance. I support a secular Pakistan, like how Jinnah wanted it.

However I do think we need to weigh the impact that the discrimination of the law will have when deciding on how much outrage one should have over it.

For example its wrong that Muslims cant legally drink in Pakistan. However whether you are rich, middle class, poor, you can get alcohol easily, and the government does not really care. So its not a huge deal.

As I said earlier, it's more about the principle than the consequences. Because who decides which discrimination have "low impact" and which have "high impact"?

Where will you draw the line?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Its not ethnic cleansing if two groups are fighting among each other.

Its a clash between two ethno groups.

Otherwise, most conflicts in this world will point to ethnic cleansing.

In that case, why have any laws or morality itself for that matter?

Just do whatever you want to and claim, 'it is a clash between two groups'.

If you have already everything figure out then write a new charter and post it to UN.

 

[Itachi]

In that case, why have any laws or morality itself for that matter?

Just do whatever you want to and claim, 'it is a clash between two groups'.

If you have already everything figure out then write a new charter and post it to UN.

Why I'll write a charter?

conflict over self interest is a natural human phenomenon and it will exist till the last day human exist.

Why I'll disobey what God has intended?

 

[IAJ]

How will I know? I haven't been to Pakistan.

But state sanctioned does exist because it's in the constituition itself. No matter what the govt will be, it will follow the same state sanctioned discrimination since it's in the constituition itself.

Oh stop it please. You are embarrasing yourself and digging a bigger hole for yourself.

 

[Zaz]

Its not ethnic cleansing if two groups are fighting among each other.

Its a clash between two ethno groups.

Otherwise, most conflicts in this world will point to ethnic cleansing.

Is that what you called the holocaust as well? A clash between two ethno groups?

Wow itachi your falling to new lows here

 

[Giannis]

I have cited OP already in another thread.

Why zionism is bad?

Muslims wants to prosper their own people.

Then why it is wrong if a Jewish person wants the same?

It's one thing for wanting your people to prosper and another thing steal land from other people and occupy their homes. It'd be like your neighbor taking over your house and then kicking out you and your family because they want their family to prosper. You see how ridiculous that sounds.

 

[PakLFC]

Plenty of Jews hate Israel and Zionism. are they racists too?

 

[Itachi]

Is that what you called the holocaust as well? A clash between two ethno groups?

Wow itachi your falling to new lows here

Holocaust was attempted cleansing because it wasn't a clash. Jews in German never retaliate, they didn't have institution in parallel to govt and never could challenge.

 

[Itachi]

Plenty of Jews hate Israel and Zionism. are they racists too?

Yes. You can be racist towards your own people.

 

[PakLFC]

Yes. You can be racist towards your own people.

No you can hate Zionism that itself is a racist movement. Not all Jews are Zionists neither are all Zionists Jews.

 

[Itachi]

No you can hate Zionism that itself is a racist movement. Not all Jews are Zionists neither are all Zionists Jews.

I disagree with your frame of reference.

 

[Itachi]

It's one thing for wanting your people to prosper and another thing steal land from other people and occupy their homes. It'd be like your neighbor taking over your house and then kicking out you and your family because they want their family to prosper. You see how ridiculous that sounds.

There is nothing in life that you can receive without harming others intentionally or unintentionally. If you prosper, there will be always someone at the receiving end whether you like it or not.

 

[PakLFC]

If "Islamic terrorism" seems to be an acceptable term then why not other religions or political movements?. Why are we not allowed to say Jewish terrorists, Hindu terrorists, Christian terrorists etc or associate Zionism with terrorism? Most Muslim's have nothing to do with terrorism as is the case with believers in all religions. Zionism is not a religious belief but a racist movement of people who look upon themselves as chosen ones.

How is Shah Mehmood saying Jews having "deep pockets" racism?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Holocaust was attempted cleansing because it wasn't a clash. Jews in German never retaliate, they didn't have institution in parallel to govt and never could challenge.

European Jews did retaliate. There are several Hollywood movies on the subject.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

So, my question to you is, do you still support Hitler and his evil murderers?



----

And also, the Zionist terrorist group called Irgun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun started getting funding in 1800s (maybe earlier).

They have nothing to do with Holocaust or European Jews in Nazi Camps but just for the sake of your stupid post, these Zionist terrorists used to go into unarmed Palestinian villages and massacre them in 1920s/30s/40s/50s/60s/70s/80s/90s/2000s/10s/20s.

They have successfully exploited Holocaust horrors and suffering to justify their terror against Palestine.

As later this European Zionist funded terrorist became what we know today as IDF (Israel Defense Force). They still get funds to this day.

Until Hamas was formed in 1987 to counter their barbarism against unarmed Palestine.

Seriously, you Hinduvta Indian guys need to do some basic Wikipedia research before spitting bee-ess.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Emily Wilder

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My statement on my termination from The Associated Press. <a href="https://t.co/kf4NCkDJXx">pic.twitter.com/kf4NCkDJXx</a></p>— emily wilder (@vv1lder) <a href="https://twitter.com/vv1lder/status/1396142932583874563?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Associated Press journalist fired amid row over pro-Palestinian views

The Associated Press has fired a news associate, Emily Wilder, for violating the company’s social media policies, a move that drew backlash from journalists after it became clear that Wilder had been targeted by rightwing media outlets for her pro-Palestinian activism in college.

Wilder confirmed to the Guardian that she was “terminated for violating the company’s social media policies in their News Values and Principles sometime between my start date on May 3 and yesterday”. Wilder said the AP did not detail which of her tweets broke its policies.

A spokesperson for the AP said that while the organization “generally refrains from commenting on personnel matters, we can confirm Emily Wilder’s comments on Thursday that she was dismissed for violations of AP’s social media policy during her time at AP”.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ress-emily-wilder-fired-pro-palestinian-views

Only thing the Zionist fascists are good at are destroying peoples' homes and livelihoods.

Zionist lobby controls world news media. Follow their agenda or they will come after you.

Similar to Nazis.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Yes. You can be racist towards your own people.

Anti Zionism is NOT equal to Anti Semitism.

 

[mazkhan]

Well the banks, fiat currency and whole financial monetary system, usury , is controlled by zionists and oil is pegged with the dollar

So its not racist calling out what is a fact

Most of the big multinational corporations are controlled by zionists or are in their pockets.

Even pakistan is enslaved by debt and the zioinist monetary system

Anyone who challenges it and the Americans is reduced to rubble Iraq and libya are good examples when they wanted to use gold .

At the end of the day it's up to these arabs in gcc the day they ditch the dollar will be the day of freedom.

But it will crash everything and usa would be ready to bomb everyone back to the stoneage.

They are looting countries of natural resources with their fake paper money system .

No wonder poor countries can't break off the shackles .

There's a reason why gold was the standard and islamic system utilised barter trade the original form of trade .

Only way the break off can happen is when muslim countries can produce fully indigenous weapons .
China and Russia can hence are more or less untouchable

 

[Itachi]

European Jews did retaliate. There are several Hollywood movies on the subject.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

So, my question to you is, do you still support Hitler and his evil murderers?



----

And also, the Zionist terrorist group called Irgun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun started getting funding in 1800s (maybe earlier).

They have nothing to do with Holocaust or European Jews in Nazi Camps but just for the sake of your stupid post, these Zionist terrorists used to go into unarmed Palestinian villages and massacre them in 1920s/30s/40s/50s/60s/70s/80s/90s/2000s/10s/20s.

They have successfully exploited Holocaust horrors and suffering to justify their terror against Palestine.

As later this European Zionist funded terrorist became what we know today as IDF (Israel Defense Force). They still get funds to this day.

Until Hamas was formed in 1987 to counter their barbarism against unarmed Palestine.

Seriously, you Hinduvta Indian guys need to do some basic Wikipedia research before spitting bee-ess.

Warsaw is in Poland and not only Jews but there were polish prisoners also. That changes the dynamics of the uprising.

 

[Itachi]

Anti Zionism is NOT equal to Anti Semitism.

Yes. where I denied that?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Yes. where I denied that?

Anti-Semitism = a racial matter.

Anti-Zionism = a political matter. Lately humanitarian.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Only simplistic and inferior minds make black and white distinctions such as anti-Pakistanism, anti-Semitism, Fascism, Islamophobia, anti-this, anti-that etc. etc.

The reality is that it is never black and white. There are different shades of grey.

Contrary to what your fascist Zionist and Hindutva masters teach you... rest of the world (including Anti-Zionist Jews) do not condone bombing of schools and hospitals and so protest and raise their voices against tyranny.


But hey, whatever color of grey lets you sleep at nights.


As I said in another post, I beg you, do not change sides. Remain loyal to Zionists, Hindutvas and other fascists.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Warsaw is in Poland and not only Jews but there were polish prisoners also. That changes the dynamics of the uprising.

The underground movement was in multiple places across Europe, controlled by Nazi empire, here is the map:

https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/holocaust/about/related/maps/uprisings.pdf

More info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_resistance_in_German-occupied_Europe

 

[Itachi]

The underground movement was in multiple places across Europe, controlled by Nazi empire, here is the map:

https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/holocaust/about/related/maps/uprisings.pdf

More info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_resistance_in_German-occupied_Europe

Did you actually read the link you posted?

it echoes what I wrote.

Here and there some conflicts doesn't constitute uprising. it was just an unorganized conflicts for various other reasons where some of them constitutes local issues.

 

[Itachi]

Anti-Semitism = a racial matter.

Anti-Zionism = a political matter. Lately humanitarian.

I disagree with your version of conclusion.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I disagree with your version of conclusion.

You are free to.

Did you actually read the link you posted?

it echoes what I wrote.

Here and there some conflicts doesn't constitute uprising. it was just an unorganized conflicts for various other reasons where some of them constitutes local issues.

These people fought back with resources they had in their disposition. If they had tanks they would have used them against Nazis.

People don't sit around while their whole families are getting butchered.

A Holocaust, a genocide or a massacre is never a 'clash between two groups'.

Of course if you listen to Nazis or Hindutva fascists and wanna eat propaganda, here have a dose and feel good about yourself

 

[Itachi]

You are free to.



These people fought back with resources they had in their disposition. If they had tanks they would have used them against Nazis.

People don't sit around while their whole families are getting butchered.

A Holocaust, a genocide or a massacre is never a 'clash between two groups'.

Of course if you listen to Nazis or Hindutva fascists and wanna eat propaganda, here have a dose and feel good about yourself

Where did I say holocaust, genocide or massacre is clash between two groups?

I did agree with you. it isn't.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Where did I say holocaust, genocide or massacre is clash between two groups?

I did agree with you. it isn't.

Post #46.

Its not ethnic cleansing if two groups are fighting among each other.

Its a clash between two ethno groups.

Otherwise, most conflicts in this world will point to ethnic cleansing.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

UK Jews against Zionism

VICE embeds with the London branch of the Neturei Karta, a group of controversial Ultra Orthodox Jews who campaign against Zionism and for the immediate dismantling of the state of Israel.

Because of their unusual views, and support of people like ex-Iranian president Ahmadinejad and groups like the Hungarian far right Jobbik party, other Jewish people often label them as extremists.

Reporter Milène Larsson goes behind the closed doors of this secretive community to understand why this Jewish group's anti-Israel sentiment has led them to join Palestinians protesting Israeli occupation and burn Israeli flags.

 

[Itachi]

Post #46.

heh? how my last post contradicts post #46? last post was continuation of post #46.

If two groups are fighting among each other, it's not ethnic cleansing.

genocide can be ethnic cleansing.

How these two statements are contradictory?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

heh? how my last post contradicts post #46? last post was continuation of post #46.

If two groups are fighting among each other, it's not ethnic cleansing.

genocide can be ethnic cleansing.

How these two statements are contradictory?

Then, I didn't understand it.

 

[Technics 1210]

There is not point in trying to explain Isreal to athiests given Isreal is claimed to be the promised land by God

Don't waste your time with resident athiests, they have no clue, to the extent they support Isreal and its divine right - which smacks in the face of the atheism they alledgedly practice.

Nothing to see here folks.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

There is not point in trying to explain Isreal to athiests given Isreal is claimed to be the promised land by God

Don't waste your time with resident athiests, they have no clue, to the extent they support Isreal and its divine right - which smacks in the face of the atheism they alledgedly practice.

Nothing to see here folks.

Zionists and their bigot supporters will do anything to divert.

Their classic response is calling the other party "Anti-Semite".

But it turns out there are millions and millions of Jews all around the world who do not support Zionism, Israel and its relentless terror against Palestine.

I don't care about these neo-Zionists, but I created this thread because it is very important to recognize origin of Zionism.

Of course, from a religious point of view, these people are doomed and there is no permanent victory for them in this world and they will answer for their mischiefs to The Creator.

 

[Manunited18]

The true teachings of Jewdism is completely against what Zionism stands for, usually the Zionist sympathisers have themselves the trates of this facist, evil , corrupt regime.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

heh? how my last post contradicts post #46? last post was continuation of post #46.

If two groups are fighting among each other, it's not ethnic cleansing.

genocide can be ethnic cleansing.

How these two statements are contradictory?

What are you on about? The West Bank is meant to be autonomous but Israel act violently towards the Palestinians when they've no right. Gaza is under a blockade and Israel use it for bombing practice.

Children, women beaten and imprisoned by men. This is an apartheid state.