[VIDEOS] Naseem Shah - A failed experiment?

[Hasan123]

Biggest failed experiment ever.

I wonder what happened to that piece of paper with people's names on it who predicted Naseem would struggle. Wouldn't be surprised if it got misplaced.

 

[Indiafan]

the kid bowled 14 no balls in two test when he shortened his runup at the direction of WY, isnt that enough to suggest ??

How do you know Waqar directed him and not him doing himself because of his injury?

 

[Slog]

He has regressed , he wasnt that bad when he came onto the scene. He could bowl a few jaffas here and there with a lot of pace.

I dont want to poin fingers but is waqar younis devenomizong our bowlers?He hasnt learny any new tricks and lost the ones he had in his bag

He was always bad. And he didn’t have many skills before either. Could bowl 5-7kph fast but that alone won’t give you many wickrts

 

[Slog]

So where did those 10K’s go?

It’s natural to lose pace when you start playing more regularly

 

[JibranAnsari]

He was always bad. And he didn’t have many skills before either. Could bowl 5-7kph fast but that alone won’t give you many wickrts

you dont lose pace within few months , nobodybis asking why is he bowling with shorter runup and why all of the sudden he is overstepping a lot

His runup.gave him momentum which helped him quick , not only is he overstepping in search to bowl quick but also his lengths are worse than before.

Its not natural to lose pace this quickly , someone tweaked with his run up. We have seen things happen to anwae ali in the past.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

It’s natural to lose pace when you start playing more regularly

no its not

 

[Slog]

no its not

It totally is. Pakistani fans get too excited

 

[Shoaibbtt]

My recommendation is that he spends more time on the domestic circuit, he's far too inexperienced at the moment but he has youth on his side and inshAllah he succeeds.

 

[Slog]

My recommendation is that he spends more time on the domestic circuit, he's far too inexperienced at the moment but he has youth on his side and inshAllah he succeeds.

Asides from all his other issues; he clearly does not know how to set up batsmen or bowl with a plan in mind. Thag can only be learnt with practise and international cricket ain’t the place for that

 

[Usman Chadda]

While I'm disappointed by how Naseem has performed thus far in his career, I really want him to somehow fluke a spell so some of us can go downtown on the losers thrashing this young kid today.

Just for the laughs.

 

[Slog]

While I'm disappointed by how Naseem has performed thus far in his career, I really want him to somehow fluke a spell so some of us can go downtown on the losers thrashing this young kid today.

Just for the laughs.

A fluke spell today would just result in more egg on your faces in the future. The only loser here is the young kid and the people who selected him to make fools of the fan base

 

[Hasan123]

While I'm disappointed by how Naseem has performed thus far in his career, I really want him to somehow fluke a spell so some of us can go downtown on the losers thrashing this young kid today.

Just for the laughs.

I get what your saying but when you say “ I like to see the fear in the batsmen eyes and I don’t know any England players apart from Root and Stokes”, then you get hammered by those unknown players . You will get stick, if you can’t handle that or Naseem can’t handle that then he shouldn’t say such comments.

 

[Shazzam]

The real issue is technical mismanagement. I pray he gets the attention and advice he needs and deserves, so that one day when he’s on top of the world, the people writing him off now will be haply to be proven wrong (and others don’t really want to be proven wrong in the interest of seeing Pakistan fail, which is a sorry state of affairs). Bring in Ian Pont is what I say.

This is a nice fantasy. For him to be on top of the world requires him to actually have a good bowling brain. He does not have one. Unrealistic expectations is why people are bashing him right now. He is the most overhyped bowler who has hardly produced notable results. Only ones he did are against low tier teams.

 

[Hasan123]

I don’t think I have been to harsh on Naseem, I have said he isn’t ready and I don’t see the ability in him which others do. But when you make the statements he made, get so much hype from the media and fans, labelled as a special talent, then you don’t perform you will get stick. Also this is international cricket. If you don’t perform you will get criticised if you don’t perform. There is no getting away from that. You can caveat that by saying he is young, but like I said when you make the statements he did and get the hype he did you will be mocked and criticised for not performing.

 

[MenInG]

I don’t think I have been to harsh on Naseem, I have said he isn’t ready and I don’t see the ability in him which others do. But when you make the statements he made, get so much hype from the media and fans, labelled as a special talent, then you don’t perform you will get stick. Also this is international cricket. If you don’t perform you will get criticised if you don’t perform. There is no getting away from that. You can caveat that by saying he is young, but like I said when you make the statements he did and get the hype he did you will be mocked and criticised for not performing.

Its just as well he cannot read English. Some of the stuff being said here is OTT and incredible.

 

[Slog]

I don’t think I have been to harsh on Naseem, I have said he isn’t ready and I don’t see the ability in him which others do. But when you make the statements he made, get so much hype from the media and fans, labelled as a special talent, then you don’t perform you will get stick. Also this is international cricket. If you don’t perform you will get criticised if you don’t perform. There is no getting away from that. You can caveat that by saying he is young, but like I said when you make the statements he did and get the hype he did you will be mocked and criticised for not performing.

If he is hurt and wants not be criticises due to his tender age then he should be playing Under 19 cricket.

Just because you’ve managed to register yourself as a 17 year old, it doesn’t mean there should be different standards for you compared to other senior team members

 

[Slog]

Its just as well he cannot read English. Some of the stuff being said here is OTT and incredible.

Not being able to read English is fine though.

Problem is he can’t read the batsmen and the pitch either lol

 

[Shazzam]

Not being able to read English is fine though.

Problem is he can’t read the batsmen and the pitch either lol

He’ll get his reading lessons in domestic. For now he can play international cricket till the management sees his time is up. Or they can continue this experiment for another two years till Misbah and Waqar are fired.

 

[Hasan123]

If he is hurt and wants not be criticises due to his tender age then he should be playing Under 19 cricket.

Just because you’ve managed to register yourself as a 17 year old, it doesn’t mean there should be different standards for you compared to other senior team members

I haven’t heard him complain about criticism. But if you aren’t performing, you will be criticised.

 

[Saj]

The lad is in his teens on late 30s.

He has a lot of work to do, but way too early to write him off.

Give him time, let's see.

 

[Hasan123]

You can check my comments earlier in the thread where I have mentioned he should just be focusing hard on his cricket, and not say such nonsense. However, the shodaybaaz mummy daddy losers on this forum need to be schooled and I really hope Naseem flukes a spell here, so they can get ripped apart. This is a young kid, with hardly any FC experience. He may be good enough or not, but to see the amount of bashing he is receiving while Abbas and Shaheen escape criticism is sickening.

I saw comments about Abbas being a club level bowler and getting other stick. It’s international cricket, if you aren’t performing be prepared for stick.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I haven’t heard him complain about criticism. But if you aren’t performing, you will be criticised.

This kid is getting bashed everywhere. It's not criticism, it's a sustained thrashing of a young talent. I myself agree he is bowling utter filth, and should be nowhere near the team if he is going to be trundling. But I won't make it a point to go to every thread and call him every name there is to call him.

How about the double standards two-faced losers here shine some light on the 'world-class' Shaheen or the ever so economical but pedestrian Abbas for once?

 

[Bigboii]

Its just as well he cannot read English. Some of the stuff being said here is OTT and incredible.

Yep people are being really toxic since last night, I mean he dint say I am a special talent other people said it about him, from the looks of it he looks like a easy going, nice guy not at all arrogant

I think some posters hyped him up too much and some posters didn't think his skills were up to par (including me) but now the naysayers are having the last laugh and the poor guy is the causality

I am all for sending him back to domestic and learning the trade but please this getting to toxic, now I am feeling bad for the guy

 

[Bigboii]

The lad is in his teens on late 30s.

He has a lot of work to do, but way too early to write him off.

Give him time, let's see.

Yeah no

enough is enough this is not apprenticeship where you learn on the job this is PCT for crying out loud

He needs to go back to domestics

 

[Saj]

from the looks of it he looks like a easy going, nice guy not at all arrogant

He's a lovely kid who has already been through some tough times with injuries and the sad loss of his mother. No arrogance at all, no ego, just the wish to succeed.

 

[Kroll]

Really it should be Misbah and Waqar that should be in the firing line exposing the young kid to be mocked senseless like this.

Okay, he had the series in Australia, he then had another chance in England. It wasn't working out, rather than take a step back, admit your mistakes, what does Misbah do? Selects him for another tough tour where we all know what the outcome is going to be.

I bet these two douche bags are sat chortling away to themselves while the kid gets it in the neck.

 

[Shazzam]

This kid is getting bashed everywhere. It's not criticism, it's a sustained thrashing of a young talent. I myself agree he is bowling utter filth, and should be nowhere near the team if he is going to be trundling. But I won't make it a point to go to every thread and call him every name there is to call him.

How about the double standards two-faced losers here shine some light on the 'world-class' Shaheen or the ever so economical but pedestrian Abbas for once?

What do you expect from a international bowler? If someone performs horribly they will get thrashed harshly. Its why there is a forum to begin with. Its to let opinions out of both sides. I hear this “young” talent a lot. He is a international bowler. If age was a concern for the management than they should have never picked a “young” bowler. They should have picked a mature bowler.

 

[Slog]

This kid is getting bashed everywhere. It's not criticism, it's a sustained thrashing of a young talent. I myself agree he is bowling utter filth, and should be nowhere near the team if he is going to be trundling. But I won't make it a point to go to every thread and call him every name there is to call him.

How about the double standards two-faced losers here shine some light on the 'world-class' Shaheen or the ever so economical but pedestrian Abbas for once?

If being a young talent is his defence and why we should be easy on him, then he should be playing under 19 cricket and not international senior cricket.

 

[Slog]

Really it should be Misbah and Waqar that should be in the firing line exposing the young kid to be mocked senseless like this.

Okay, he had the series in Australia, he then had another chance in England. It wasn't working out, rather than take a step back, admit your mistakes, what does Misbah do? Selects him for another tough tour where we all know what the outcome is going to be.

I bet these two douche bags are sat chortling away to themselves while the kid gets it in the neck.

Well the kid should have also realised that he’s a club level talent and not given joke statements like ‘like to see fear in eyes of batsmen’ because all that does is make him more of a laughing stock than he was.

Misbah (as head coach and chief selector) and rest of management picked him purely because a ‘teenager’ shields them from scrutiny and criticism because they can throw the old ‘young, talented side’ excuse which are fans are more than happy to lap up. And it clearly worked too. Some are thankfully waking up now but even now the majority on this forum only (let alone twitter wastelands) think Naseem is some generational talent whereas his skill set shows he would be lucky to have a Mohammad Sami type career.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

This is a nice fantasy. For him to be on top of the world requires him to actually have a good bowling brain. He does not have one. Unrealistic expectations is why people are bashing him right now. He is the most overhyped bowler who has hardly produced notable results. Only ones he did are against low tier teams.

Well, many would have said the same about Stuart Broad early in his career. You can develop a good bowling brain. It’s not like Naseem is particularly dumb, he’s just not understood enough yet.

Secondly, unrealistic expectations are NOT why people are bashing him right now. People are bashing him right now because they are judging the 135kph shortened runup Naseem, who I too am bashing.

I don’t think Naseem will become a Malcolm Marshall, but he IS one of the only decent fast bowlers available in Pakistan’s domestic setup. And he DOES have very decent growth potential.

 

[mazkhan]

While naseems story is sad boy from remote upper dir lost his mum , same with musa a poor boy from a remote area ethnic group in kohistan you can't just keep them for sympathy because there are millions of people in pakistan kids who are suffering from poverty , disease war , afghan refugees in camps, orphans from kashmir earthquake so these 2 shouldn't get a free pass for daal pani , because there are millions out there eating stale bread and going through a lot of suffering.

Misbah is to blame for selecting them he has probably mentally destroyed these 2 boys as well

 

[Mamoon]

While I'm disappointed by how Naseem has performed thus far in his career, I really want him to somehow fluke a spell so some of us can go downtown on the losers thrashing this young kid today.

Just for the laughs.

Looks like he is too mediocre to even fluke wickets when the batsmen are swinging at every ball. Hopefully you will get your chance in the future, whenever that maybe.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Abbas has gotten criticism too. And unlike Naseem he atleast has a pedigree in international matches and how won us games.

Shaheen hasn’t received same criticism because his bowling has been at a higher level. He is still not as good as our fan base would like to believe he is but he has been the best of this bunch by a long shot

What good has Shaheen's 'higher level' done for us? Naseem has been diabolical, but Shaheen has been pathetic too no matter how much you people try ro spin it. He is not good enough to lead a bowling attack in Tests, one or two good balls here and there don't make a world-class Test bowler.

All three of Abbas, Shaheen and Naseem should be immediately removed from the Test team.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Looks like he is too mediocre to even fluke wickets when the batsmen are swinging at every ball. Hopefully you will get your chance in the future, whenever that maybe.

You can continue to live in a world where you bash a young kid, while terming a mediocre Test bowler like Shaheen as 'world-class' or Rizwan the 'best keeper in the world'.

 

[Hawkeye]

Perfect example of how fans here hype up a young player.

They want everyone dropped so that their new favorite young guy can be selected, and once he is, they start abusing the same guy(plus coach) cause obviously there's no good young talent in Pak.

Naseem story isn't new. It's repeated numerous times in the last decade. Another recent example is everyone wanted Hafeez dropped for Khushdil etc.

Goodness me thanks Misbah stuck with Hafeez.

Now need Umar back.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

What good has Shaheen's 'higher level' done for us? Naseem has been diabolical, but Shaheen has been pathetic too no matter how much you people try ro spin it. He is not good enough to lead a bowling attack in Tests, one or two good balls here and there don't make a world-class Test bowler.

All three of Abbas, Shaheen and Naseem should be immediately removed from the Test team.

Theres a difference between Shaheen and the guy who just delivered the worst bowling performance by a test seamer in history.

 

[Rayyman]

He is not the same bowler post-injury.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

This kid is getting bashed everywhere. It's not criticism, it's a sustained thrashing of a young talent. I myself agree he is bowling utter filth, and should be nowhere near the team if he is going to be trundling. But I won't make it a point to go to every thread and call him every name there is to call him.

How about the double standards two-faced losers here shine some light on the 'world-class' Shaheen or the ever so economical but pedestrian Abbas for once?

Shhh - didn't you get the memo that Naseem is the single reason behind this absolute shambles of a performance...?

Shaheen and Abbas have been absolute garbage as well for some time but that goes against the narrative of some people doesn't it?

Some people just love on this forum just love to toot their own horn. And then we wonder why our cricket is in such a mess when our fanbase can't even arrive to logical and respectful conclusions.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Perfect example of how fans here hype up a young player.

They want everyone dropped so that their new favorite young guy can be selected, and once he is, they start abusing the same guy(plus coach) cause obviously there's no good young talent in Pak.

Naseem story isn't new. It's repeated numerous times in the last decade. Another recent example is everyone wanted Hafeez dropped for Khushdil etc.

Goodness me thanks Misbah stuck with Hafeez.

Now need Umar back.

Are you trolling?

 

[Darkrai]

Perfect example of how fans here hype up a young player.

They want everyone dropped so that their new favorite young guy can be selected, and once he is, they start abusing the same guy(plus coach) cause obviously there's no good young talent in Pak.

Naseem story isn't new. It's repeated numerous times in the last decade. Another recent example is everyone wanted Hafeez dropped for Khushdil etc.

Goodness me thanks Misbah stuck with Hafeez.

Now need Umar back.

Didn't Babar say he wanted Hafeez and Malik in the team after Misbah dropped them?

 

[Usman Chadda]

Theres a difference between Shaheen and the guy who just delivered the worst bowling performance by a test seamer in history.

Shaheen is not good enough to lead a Test bowling attack. I'm all for criticising Naseem, as he has shown garbage club level performance so far but it angers me that Shaheen always escapes criticism for mediocre bowling performances. He is the main culprit of bowling a costly no-ball in this innings, as at 72-4 things would have been different.

But no, all the nazla is falling on Naseem.

 

[Hawkeye]

Are you trolling?

No new young player has been discovered in the last 5-10 years who can dominate pace attacks and hit cleanly. In the middle/late order.

So, what other choice do we have?

 

[MeanAndGreen]

No new young player has been discovered in the last 5-10 years who can dominate pace attacks and hit cleanly. In the middle/late order.

So, what other choice do we have?

And you think Umar Akmal is the solution?

I think a better conclusion to make is that the barrel is empty rather than being in favour of Umar returning.

 

[Hawkeye]

All three of Abbas, Shaheen and Naseem should be immediately removed from the Test team.

Ah yes. And replaced with?
Talha, Bilawal Bhatti, Asad Ali, Umar Gul.

 

[Hawkeye]

Didn't Babar say he wanted Hafeez and Malik in the team after Misbah dropped them?

He wanted to try all the possible combinations. Massive media and awaam pressure to drop Hafeez just cause he's a senior.

Good he was brought back in time.

 

[Hawkeye]

And you think Umar Akmal is the solution?

I think a better conclusion to make is that the barrel is empty rather than being in favour of Umar returning.

Barrel is empty indeed. But you play your best options. No matter if they're seniors or old now.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Shaheen is not good enough to lead a Test bowling attack. I'm all for criticising Naseem, as he has shown garbage club level performance so far but it angers me that Shaheen always escapes criticism for mediocre bowling performances. He is the main culprit of bowling a costly no-ball in this innings, as at 72-4 things would have been different.

But no, all the nazla is falling on Naseem.

Shaheen may not be uprooting trees but he has looked miles better than naseem to be honest. He deserves criticism but hes making that new ball talk. Him and Abbas are taking a wicket or 2 upfront but then you have naseem and the spinner going at 5 an over or over that. How exactly are you supposed to exert control collectively? Heck, even faheem Ashraf has been solid for a fourth seamer.

 

[Mamoon]

You can continue to live in a world where you bash a young kid, while terming a mediocre Test bowler like Shaheen as 'world-class' or Rizwan the 'best keeper in the world'.

I can sense your frustration after seeing Rizwan establish himself as a highly valuable cricketer and perform at a high level for our pathetic standards.

You were always dismissive of him and thought Sarfraz was Gilchrist compared to him. Now he has closed the door on him for good.

Similarly, Shaheen remains our most threatening bowler unlike Naseem, he is here to stay.

Both Shaheen and Rizwan will be in the team for a very long time but Naseem won’t be.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Ah yes. And replaced with?
Talha, Bilawal Bhatti, Asad Ali, Umar Gul.

What exactly are the strengths of these three?

Shaheen is semi-decent with the new ball, woeful with the old ball.

Abbas is semi-decent with the new ball, but with that pace it's easy for the batsmen to play him out. Useless with the old ball.

Naseem has no skill right now, it's just gun-barrel straight rubbish.

Shaheen is the only one who could be kept around the squad, but he has no idea how to set up Test level batsmen and pick up wickets. Replace him with someone like Waqas Maqsood, who was successfully moving the ball in the air on Pakistani pitches. The other two you can replace with anyone currently in good rhythm.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Shaheen is a bogs-average test match bowler who is closer to the level of a first-change domestic bowler in Shield cricket.

The post-injury Abbas is club level and is finished at this level.

Naseem Shah is an U19 bowler who despite the absolute bombardment he has recevied on this forum, I thought was very talented for his age, as did the entire international circuit when they saw him intimidate Australia A's top order. This along with his very promising early numbers in junior and his first few first class matches + a test hattrick and 5-for in his first test season at home was enough reason to be excited. The extremists of the Pakistani fanbase extrapolated these early signs to an insane level, heralding him as Lillee reincarnated.

He has clearly regressed and is not ready for this level however and should play domestic cricket until he figures it out.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I can sense your frustration after seeing Rizwan establish himself as a highly valuable cricketer and perform at a high level for our pathetic standards.

You were always dismissive of him and thought Sarfraz was Gilchrist compared to him. Now he has closed the door on him for good.

Similarly, Shaheen remains our most threatening bowler unlike Naseem, he is here to stay.

Both Shaheen and Rizwan will be in the team for a very long time but Naseem won’t be.

Like the fact you toot Rizwan's horn, call him the 'best keeper in the world' and then immediately add 'for our pathetic standards' to save your behind.

Yes, Shaheen is our most threatening bowler 'for our pathetic standards'. Correct?

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Shaheen may not be uprooting trees but he has looked miles better than naseem to be honest. He deserves criticism but hes making that new ball talk. Him and Abbas are taking a wicket or 2 upfront but then you have naseem and the spinner going at 5 an over or over that. How exactly are you supposed to exert control collectively? Heck, even faheem Ashraf has been solid for a fourth seamer.

I agree with the above except Shaheen making the new ball talk. His spell yesterday with the new ball was average at best. Hardly any deliveries making the batsman come forward and play. Blundell could have closed his eyes and left insincitively.

 

[Mercurial]

I don't blame him much, he was selected on the basis of some good performances in FC cricket but the sample size was too small, same goes for Shaheen. Both should be sent back to FC cricket in order to improve and prove themselves. Shaheen is good in LOIs though.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Shaheen may not be uprooting trees but he has looked miles better than naseem to be honest. He deserves criticism but hes making that new ball talk. Him and Abbas are taking a wicket or 2 upfront but then you have naseem and the spinner going at 5 an over or over that. How exactly are you supposed to exert control collectively? Heck, even faheem Ashraf has been solid for a fourth seamer.

So the criteria of people calling Shaheen a 'world-class' bowler is that he is better than a mediocre, undercooked U19 pacer? This is what stinks on this forum, protecting a player based on agendas. Throw Naseem out, throw Abbas out but Shaheen somehow always escapes criticism. Forget about uprooting trees, what has he achieved at Test level? One or two wickets here and there, then looking average for the whole day is not good enough for international level.

 

[Mamoon]

Like the fact you toot Rizwan's horn, call him the 'best keeper in the world' and then immediately add 'for our pathetic standards' to save your behind.

Yes, Shaheen is our most threatening bowler 'for our pathetic standards'. Correct?

Rizwan is the best pure keeper in the world along with de Kock. I know you don’t understand cricket but if you had watched him keep over the past 12 months with an open eye, you would have seen how brilliant his glove work is.

Yes he dropped a sitter, but even Bradman got out for a duck. It means nothing.

Shaheen is an excellent new ball bowler. He is world class with the new ball but he needs to improve his fitness to bowl quicker with the old ball, because that is an area where he is struggling at the moment.

Anyway, no point in explaining this to someone who doesn’t understand cricket. Your posts before the 2018 Asia Cup summed up your caliber.

You can continue defending a nothing bowler like Naseem and criticize others for criticizing him for running his mouth before achieving anything.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

So the criteria of people calling Shaheen a 'world-class' bowler is that he is better than a mediocre, undercooked U19 pacer? This is what stinks on this forum, protecting a player based on agendas. Throw Naseem out, throw Abbas out but Shaheen somehow always escapes criticism. Forget about uprooting trees, what has he achieved at Test level? One or two wickets here and there, then looking average for the whole day is not good enough for international level.

I'm not sure what you are seeing but I dont see why it's an issue that Naseem gets criticised more.

Shaheen has a vastly higher workload - he usually bowls more overs in a test innings than naseem does. You can check almost all the matches they have played together and you can see for yourself. He takes a wicket or two with the new ball and creates more chances.

Cricviz observed that Shaheen found more swing and seam in England than James Anderson in one of the tests and even here in NZ hes getting massive swing but at times his line hasnt been consistent enough but that control comes with time.
Shaheen also offers a great deal more control . He was the most economical bowler on display while naseem was going at twice that rate.

What's more, Shaheen plays all 3 formats and so far, , has not shown any proclivity to break down every other match which Naseem has shown. Was Pakistans most impact seamer at the World Cup and was crucial for Pakistans wins against teams like NZ. Naseem has not even shown the X factor that he was selected for I.e. pace . He was bowling harmless length deliveries and never looked like prising out a wicket.

To top it all off, Naseem has come to with the worst bowling performance ever for a test seamer.

Not sure what is so surprising here.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Rizwan is the best pure keeper in the world along with de Kock. I know you don’t understand cricket but if you had watched him keep over the past 12 months with an open eye, you would have seen how brilliant his glove work is.

Yes he dropped a sitter, but even Bradman got out for a duck. It means nothing.

Shaheen is an excellent new ball bowler. He is world class with the new ball but he needs to improve his fitness to bowl quicker with the old ball, because that is an area where he is struggling at the moment.

Anyway, no point in explaining this to someone who doesn’t understand cricket. Your posts before the 2018 Asia Cup summed up your caliber.

You can continue defending a nothing bowler like Naseem and criticize others for criticizing him for running his mouth before achieving anything.

Shaheen has no old ball skills, it's not about him being quicker. He is bowling at the same pace as he does with the new ball, but he just doesn't understand Test match bowling. Neither is he can 'excellent' new ball bowler, merely decent as the MINIMUM requirement for a Test match pace bowler. However, the utter lack of old ball skills means he is not good enough for Test cricket right now.

Don't fall into the trap of doing bhangra too early for someone like Rizwan, as you might be too young to remember what happened back in 2013/14 with Sarfraz.

Where did I or anyone defend Naseem? I'm also criticising him, but not to the extent that I term him the reason for this loss. But I forgot, this is your way of turning the narrative into another direction based on your agenda, rather than understanding what is being said.

Stop pushing your agendas amid the veil of 'understanding cricket'. For me and for a lot of posters here, you are a meme who was criticising ICC for considering a 36/9 as 36 all out. So don't speak about caliber, when you have no clue about cricket besides making long posts about how Virat Kohli is good enough to be your life partner or the state of Pakistan cricket, which anyone can do to be honest.

 

[Majestic]

Shaheen is a Zaheer Khan level bowler while Naseem is a Varun Aaron level.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I'm not sure what you are seeing but I dont see why it's an issue that Naseem gets criticised more.

Shaheen has a vastly higher workload - he usually bowls more overs in a test innings than naseem does. You can check almost all the matches they have played together and you can see for yourself. He takes a wicket or two with the new ball and creates more chances.

Cricviz observed that Shaheen found more swing and seam in England than James Anderson in one of the tests and even here in NZ hes getting massive swing but at times his line hasnt been consistent enough but that control comes with time.
Shaheen also offers a great deal more control . He was the most economical bowler on display while naseem was going at twice that rate.

What's more, Shaheen plays all 3 formats and so far, , has not shown any proclivity to break down every other match which Naseem has shown. Was Pakistans most impact seamer at the World Cup and was crucial for Pakistans wins against teams like NZ. Naseem has not even shown the X factor that he was selected for I.e. pace . He was bowling harmless length deliveries and never looked like prising out a wicket.

To top it all off, Naseem has come to with the worst bowling performance ever for a test seamer.

Not sure what is so surprising here.

I'm not sure why Shaheen fans don't get the point some of us here are trying to make. You can find my post earlier where I have said Shaheen is much more skilled than Naseem, so I dont know why you had the need to write such a long and useless post proving otherwise. Neither do I want Naseem Shah to stay in the team. He is bowling trash and the sooner he is back in domestic cricket, the better.

What I have an issue with is, is that despite all these wonderful praises for Shaheen in your post, can you remember ONE noteworthy spell from Shaheen in Test cricket? Why does he always escape criticism? I don't have an issue with people criticising Naseem more as he deserves it, but why protect Shaheen on the other hand? He is constantly bowling rubbish too, but not ONE thread on him for his below par performance?

Infact, I remember one spell from Shaheen, which was match-losing. Woakes absolutely took him to town and destroyed our 'world-class' bowler, by changing the complexion of the game at 100-odd/5 where this bowler was content on giving him a load of half-vollies to bash.

 

[Hawkeye]

What exactly are the strengths of these three?

Shaheen is semi-decent with the new ball, woeful with the old ball.

Abbas is semi-decent with the new ball, but with that pace it's easy for the batsmen to play him out. Useless with the old ball.

Naseem has no skill right now, it's just gun-barrel straight rubbish.

Shaheen is the only one who could be kept around the squad, but he has no idea how to set up Test level batsmen and pick up wickets. Replace him with someone like Waqas Maqsood, who was successfully moving the ball in the air on Pakistani pitches. The other two you can replace with anyone currently in good rhythm.

Yes,

You tell us about their wonderful talented replacements.

Kick Shaheen, Naseem, Abbas out.

Bring in who?

 

[Savak]

Shaheen kept racing and charging in all his spells. Even when NZ reached 650 he was still touching 140 km/hr. Easily our best bowler on this tour inspite of his imperfections. He has a genuine cause to complain about lack of support from the others

 

[sindhiboy]

Yes,

You tell us about their wonderful talented replacements.

Kick Shaheen, Naseem, Abbas out.

Bring in who?

Shaheen is still pretty good and will only get better. Abbas is necessary as he is the only experienced seamer

Sameen gul, 21 years old, with 91 wickets in 24 fc matches avg 18. Should have debuted instead of Naseem last year

 

[sindhiboy]

Shaheen has no old ball skills, it's not about him being quicker. He is bowling at the same pace as he does with the new ball, but he just doesn't understand Test match bowling. Neither is he can 'excellent' new ball bowler, merely decent as the MINIMUM requirement for a Test match pace bowler. However, the utter lack of old ball skills means he is not good enough for Test cricket right now.

Don't fall into the trap of doing bhangra too early for someone like Rizwan, as you might be too young to remember what happened back in 2013/14 with Sarfraz.

Where did I or anyone defend Naseem? I'm also criticising him, but not to the extent that I term him the reason for this loss. But I forgot, this is your way of turning the narrative into another direction based on your agenda, rather than understanding what is being said.

Stop pushing your agendas amid the veil of 'understanding cricket'. For me and for a lot of posters here, you are a meme who was criticising ICC for considering a 36/9 as 36 all out. So don't speak about caliber, when you have no clue about cricket besides making long posts about how Virat Kohli is good enough to be your life partner or the state of Pakistan cricket, which anyone can do to be honest.

)

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Really it should be Misbah and Waqar that should be in the firing line exposing the young kid to be mocked senseless like this.

Okay, he had the series in Australia, he then had another chance in England. It wasn't working out, rather than take a step back, admit your mistakes, what does Misbah do? Selects him for another tough tour where we all know what the outcome is going to be.

I bet these two douche bags are sat chortling away to themselves while the kid gets it in the neck.

These are tough tours for batsmen to play against the bounce and pace to score runs.. But for pace bowling , these SENA tours are the paradise...They can take wickets at fun , enjoy bowling under overcast conditions and greeny pitches...

Having said that they need to have control on their own bowling, run up, action, line and length (all these you will learn by playing more FC games in domestic) OK now u can bring Shaheen as a comparison who comparatively played less FC games, but his action is smooth first of all + he has played enough ODIs before getting the chance in TESTs + with his height can extract that extra bounce..

This kid is at max 175cm from what we can see in the TV.

As Hafeez said unfinished products should not be i intl arena represneting the national side, rather get moulded, developed in the domestics...

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Shaheen is a Zaheer Khan level bowler while Naseem is a Varun Aaron level.

A very good one-liner..

 

[BreadPakoda]

Shaheen is a Zaheer Khan level bowler while Naseem is a Varun Aaron level.

Shaheen is winning you a World Cup and Naseem is going to break someone's nose.

 

[Mamoon]

Shaheen has no old ball skills, it's not about him being quicker. He is bowling at the same pace as he does with the new ball, but he just doesn't understand Test match bowling. Neither is he can 'excellent' new ball bowler, merely decent as the MINIMUM requirement for a Test match pace bowler. However, the utter lack of old ball skills means he is not good enough for Test cricket right now.

Don't fall into the trap of doing bhangra too early for someone like Rizwan, as you might be too young to remember what happened back in 2013/14 with Sarfraz.

Where did I or anyone defend Naseem? I'm also criticising him, but not to the extent that I term him the reason for this loss. But I forgot, this is your way of turning the narrative into another direction based on your agenda, rather than understanding what is being said.

Stop pushing your agendas amid the veil of 'understanding cricket'. For me and for a lot of posters here, you are a meme who was criticising ICC for considering a 36/9 as 36 all out. So don't speak about caliber, when you have no clue about cricket besides making long posts about how Virat Kohli is good enough to be your life partner or the state of Pakistan cricket, which anyone can do to be honest.

You don’t need to throw your toys out of the pram because I reminded you of your humiliation during the Asia Cup. Your posts then were meme content.

The fact that you are comparing Sarfraz in 2014-15 to Rizwan shows your lack of cricket acumen.

Sarfraz had a great patch with the bat but his keeping was never as reliable as Rizwan. He was always a shaky keeper.

I am old enough to remember that period but maybe you are not because you have messed up the date by mentioning 2013.

In 2013, Sarfraz was rabbit in headlights in South Africa.

You are just another delusional Pakistani fan with no cricket knowledge. I have dealt with hundreds like you and will continue to do so.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

To emphasize on Hafeez comments, about the product delivered to intl cricket from domestics. Only in Pakistan not just players but even the coach learnt coaching in international cricket. Now I also feel hafeez not just took dig at the players but MISBAH indirectly with that tweet as well lol...

He was allowed to coach in PSL citing reasons that he can learn coaching. This very reason was from the PCB itself lol..

What more can we laugh at PCB

 

[sindhiboy]

Shaheen may not be uprooting trees but he has looked miles better than naseem to be honest. He deserves criticism but hes making that new ball talk. Him and Abbas are taking a wicket or 2 upfront but then you have naseem and the spinner going at 5 an over or over that. How exactly are you supposed to exert control collectively? Heck, even faheem Ashraf has been solid for a fourth seamer.

Shaheen has bowled better than boult this series

 

[hitthestump]

Thank God it's over for the time being. Kiwi's have showed mercy by declaring.

Good luck in domestics, Naseem.

 

[saeedhk]

Another feckless bowler along with Harris Rauf. Both are in the same category as Bhatti, Cheema and other two-bit bowlers Pakistan has produced in the last decade.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Shaheen is still pretty good and will only get better. Abbas is necessary as he is the only experienced seamer

Sameen gul, 21 years old, with 91 wickets in 24 fc matches avg 18. Should have debuted instead of Naseem last year

Sameen currently looks ordinary this domestic season. He is decent, but he is no silver bullet solution and Naseem is still far better.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Shaheen has bowled better than boult this series

Comfortably the best bowler after Kyle this series. He was drawing false shots from Williamson with the new ball and KW looked in absolute control against other bowlers. Had Rizwan attacked a bit more and kept an extra slip for him and Pakistan's catching been a bit better, NZ would have not reached anywhere near this.

 

[Rajdeep]

Lol...why are people going after Shaheen? He along with Babar is the only world class player Pakistan has. Infact, all up and coming fast bowlers from Pakistan should have Shaheen as their role model. No OTT statements, no badmaashi, just a workhorse who runs in day in and day out in every format giving his all. I have never heard any bad press or off field reports about him. Any team would love to have a character like Shaheen.

And people going after him?

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

How do you know Waqar directed him and not him doing himself because of his injury?

he is the bowling coach and changed his run up, you think tke kid knew the this secret ?

 

[coy0607]

Naseem should retire from Tests, focus on white ball cricket

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I can sense your frustration after seeing Rizwan establish himself as a highly valuable cricketer and perform at a high level for our pathetic standards.

You were always dismissive of him and thought Sarfraz was Gilchrist compared to him. Now he has closed the door on him for good.

Similarly, Shaheen remains our most threatening bowler unlike Naseem, he is here to stay.

Both Shaheen and Rizwan will be in the team for a very long time but Naseem won’t be.

The experiment has failed.. No doubt about it but that is because Pakistan's team management made a wrong call by picking Naseem so early in his career.

Its like India picking Kartik Tyagi for tests right now... I am damn sure he would get pummeled.
But if we give him 2 years time in domestic and A tours and then pick him for tests then we can pass a judgement on him and that too won't be final coz i have seen Ishant Sharma's transition he literally changed from a harmless pie chucker to a world class bowler... So never say never.
Even if naseem is 21 currently he still has a long time to make a comeback.

 

[Slog]

Lol...why are people going after Shaheen? He along with Babar is the only world class player Pakistan has. Infact, all up and coming fast bowlers from Pakistan should have Shaheen as their role model. No OTT statements, no badmaashi, just a workhorse who runs in day in and day out in every format giving his all. I have never heard any bad press or off field reports about him. Any team would love to have a character like Shaheen.

And people going after him?

They think that by throwing him under the bus ; they can lessen the pathetic-ness of Naseem’s performances.

Numbers wise both may come out with similar stats after this series. (Not sure what they are). But anyone who’s watched the games can tell Shaheen’s been far and above Naseem. He still isn’t world class though but nothing wrong with that.

 

[Slog]

I'm not sure why Shaheen fans don't get the point some of us here are trying to make. You can find my post earlier where I have said Shaheen is much more skilled than Naseem, so I dont know why you had the need to write such a long and useless post proving otherwise. Neither do I want Naseem Shah to stay in the team. He is bowling trash and the sooner he is back in domestic cricket, the better.

What I have an issue with is, is that despite all these wonderful praises for Shaheen in your post, can you remember ONE noteworthy spell from Shaheen in Test cricket? Why does he always escape criticism? I don't have an issue with people criticising Naseem more as he deserves it, but why protect Shaheen on the other hand? He is constantly bowling rubbish too, but not ONE thread on him for his below par performance?

Infact, I remember one spell from Shaheen, which was match-losing. Woakes absolutely took him to town and destroyed our 'world-class' bowler, by changing the complexion of the game at 100-odd/5 where this bowler was content on giving him a load of half-vollies to bash.

One noteworthy spell came in the first test of this series only. You don’t need to look too far back.

He had NZ reeling in the first morning of the test and had then 3 down fairly quickly. If he had ANY support from Abbas and Naseem then the complexion of Test could have changed. .

 

[Mamoon]

This whole argument of Pakistan picking Naseem at the wrong time etc. doesn’t make sense.

This guy is a nothing bowler at this point. He has no skills and even at his fastest, he was not out of this world quick. It is not as if he was some Shaun Tait type speed demon who could clock 96 or 97 mph.

He was just ‘normal’ fast and now he is a trundler.

There is nothing to suggest that he would have developed into an elite bowler if he wasn’t fast-tracked.

Whoever fudged his age did him great service because it enabled him to play international cricket.

If the lie of him being a 16 year old wasn’t sold, he wouldn’t have been close to international selection. It was the only reason he was hyped in the first place. It wasn’t because of his domestic performance.