Slog
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Said following about Naseem (and others) in the summer. Literally I would say all of it still applies. We are frozen in time.
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[VIDEOS] Naseem Shah - A failed experiment?
- Thread starter Kenpachi
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Said following about Naseem (and others) in the summer. Literally I would say all of it still applies. We are frozen in time.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Misbah-ul-Haq regarding Naseem Shah "We should not write off players after just a couple of matches. I still back him and firmly believe that he will perform well for Pakistan in the future" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1348573557505318914?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 11, 2021</a></blockquote>
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He’s a young kid, he’s not the first and last player to have had a poor run. He’ll get better with time InshAllah.
Kroll
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The question is how far into the future? If he can't perform now for the team, does he justify a spot?
Hes had enough opportunities i would let work on his action and run up in the academy set up
gazza619
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Dump him for 3 years in domestic cricket.
International cricket is not the place to learn.
International cricket is not the place to learn.
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Waqar Younis on Naseem Shah:
“Naseem Shah has performed well at home and has also taken a hat-trick. He is learning fast. Other bowlers have also had massive improvements despite the epidemic"
“We try to prepare the players for the tough circumstances of Test cricket but the conditions did not allow us to fully prepare them"
“Naseem Shah has performed well at home and has also taken a hat-trick. He is learning fast. Other bowlers have also had massive improvements despite the epidemic"
“We try to prepare the players for the tough circumstances of Test cricket but the conditions did not allow us to fully prepare them"
observer1
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If he can find his speed again, the potential is there. He is young.
Teams will always struggle in NZ and Australia. He should be given an opportunity again.
If he can't find his speed again, it's going to be difficult for him
Teams will always struggle in NZ and Australia. He should be given an opportunity again.
If he can't find his speed again, it's going to be difficult for him
Ahson8
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Has a hamstring niggle according to the Chief Selector so no.
There's nothing wrong with him, he is 100% fit.
I guess just being rested after the shocking NZ effort.
Bewal Express
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Naseem needs to get his pace and sharpness back. He has no future as a 85mph bowler because he doesn't have the skills to take wickets at that pace.
hoshiarpurexpress
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Go back to domestics.. learn from mistakes and further improve bowling fitness.
I would advise him to go talk to Hasan Ali about mental aspect of things about making a comeback.
Learn to seam the bowl, if not swing.
He will be back then.
I would advise him to go talk to Hasan Ali about mental aspect of things about making a comeback.
Learn to seam the bowl, if not swing.
He will be back then.
imranyounus
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probably was not fit to play in NZ in first place. Didn't bowl at full speed on entire tour
Thunderbolt14
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If you’re in contact with him please ask about the shortened runup. Hate to see him lose his effectiveness because of Waqar’s modifications.
Bewal Express
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Most of the young bowlers start well( in particular PK bowlers) and decline, its whether they can come back that will determine their long term future. He cant complain about over bowling because in the last year he has bowled comparatively few overs.
He has asked. He's waiting for the PCB to approve it.
Pacy with wisdom
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Can you ask him on what technical alterations have been made to his bowling over the last year?
It is obvious that there have been changes, but I would like to hear it directly from him.
Rana
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he might get slaughtered in that as well and then he will be completely decimated mentally
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Who is Naseem's mentor? There should be one - a training partner - possibly a senior bowler.
Fact is that Naseem was identified as an asset and you dont discard assets like that.
Fact is that Naseem was identified as an asset and you dont discard assets like that.
Savak
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First step would be to hold Waqar to account. Waqar is the biggest conman out there, a guy who himself operated at 144-150 km/hr in his prime days and then tells youngsters pace is not everything and that i will prefer a 120 km/hr bowler who takes wickets vs a 140 km/hr who is not taking wickets. You cannot do that to a young pacer who has time, youth and the fitness to bowl quick, to change his action without any justified reason and making him pedestrian is ridiculous
personally i would take him to the high performance centre and work on his action run ect then go back to domestic hes proberly mentally drained after his performance in new zealand
HappyWarsFan
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He is mediocre. Just a spray gun.
The Naseem Shah that made his debut - that’s the bowler that has potential. Completely different bowler. Different run up, action, attitude, mindset, body language and pace.
Maybe he was introduced too early, but that bowler had the raw ingredients to work with. I don’t know what they’ve done to him. Seems like a different person now
Someone needs to work with THAT bowler, get him performing in domestics and bring him back. Would be a real waste if that didn’t happen
Maybe he was introduced too early, but that bowler had the raw ingredients to work with. I don’t know what they’ve done to him. Seems like a different person now
Someone needs to work with THAT bowler, get him performing in domestics and bring him back. Would be a real waste if that didn’t happen
Pakistanis dont like future planning. 2 years is a long time.
Thunderbolt14
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Completely agree. And to answer your question about what they did with him - they shortened his runup and modified his action.
freezerburn
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I keep hearing this, can you share a specific source that Waqar is solely responsible for his modified run-up etc? There’s gotta be more to the story
Ok, so let’s look at the facts.
1. Naseem started his international career with a longer run up. He was bowling 142-147 for the vast majority of deliveries.
2. Naseem now has a shortened run up. His speed now is 132-138 (and the 138 is not that regular), topping at around 140 for the very very odd delivery.
3. Waqar has been the Pakistan bowling coach throughout this whole time.
The possiblities are:
(a) Waqar shortened his run up
(b) Naseem decided all by himself to reduce his run up.
(c) Some domestic coach told him to shorten his run up
Regardless, it is clear it has reduced his pace and disturbed his rhythm, making him a much less effective bowler. Even if Waqar didn’t reduce his run up. Why has Waqar allowed Naseem to play? International cricket is not the place to try out a new run up or action.
So doesn’t matter who did it, Waqar is either clueless to select him or clueless to change his run up. Take your pick
Yes exactly and not only that - he seems to have a completely different attitude and body language.
Sometime I wonder whether some of our team management get bonuses to send our players backwards
freezerburn
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Totally agree, about allowing him to play so early, but I feel the blame goes to the whole system for this example
Thunderbolt14
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Specifically (regarding attitude and approach) he’s clearly been given instructions to focus on line and length and keep the bouncers back. That’s all he’s been bowling unless there’s a specific directive from the captain to bowl bouncers.
Mamoon
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Considering the hype that he had, and the amount of chances he got against major sides, he is surely the worst fast bowler to ever play for Pakistan.
Zero talent and a big mouth. A deadly combination.
Zero talent and a big mouth. A deadly combination.
Savak
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Not really, no one can beat Sami. It takes someone very special to play 40-50 test matches and average 52 with the ball
Mamoon
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Sami was genuinely express and had a lot of skill. He had no bowling intelligence which is why he could not set the batsmen up. With a good bowling brain, Sami would have been a top bowler.
Naseem on the other hand has no skill in addition to his lack of bowling intelligence. He simply has no ability.
His hype was all fake.
Rightarmfast
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When Sami had made his debut, he was fast medium. And then he worked on his pace and became express. However, during the first couple of years, Sami did show promise. Dont know what went wrong with him. But I remember, as an Indian, we were in awe of him in the initial years.
Amjid Javed
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Naseem needs to play more domestic cricket and also county cricket to help develop him as a bowler. I feel sorry for most of our current young bowlers in test side as they have no experienced bowlers to learn from while in the side.
Savak
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Naseem will not be averaging 52 with the ball
What skill did Sami have that naseem doesn't.
Muhammad Saad
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Skill to have all the ingredients of a complete and great test class fast bowler yet somehow ends up averaging 50+ with the ball.
I definitely don't want Naseem to have THAT skill ever.
Muhammad Saad
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If some Sami had told himself that no matter what the situation is and who the batsmen is, he is going to bowl 4 Outswingers in an over at goodish length just outside offstump and experiment while mixing up with the remaining two deliveries against every batsmen in the world , I am pretty sure his average would have been under 30.
Mamoon
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If plays a few more series against quality lineups, he will average 52+.
Mamoon
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Sami was quicker, he could move the ball both ways, and he had a brilliant yorker. Naseem doesn’t possess the same skill-set.
Varun
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He's on the way there, 42.5 currently after playing in seam friendly Eng, NZ etc.
Slog
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The most amazing thing is that this guy averages 42+ after playing in NZ and England which are places bowlers of his type usually end with their best figures
Nikhil_cric
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He's still very young. Hes probably gonna turn 21 this year. If he doesnt start producing results by 2024 ish , then yes I would say that he wont go anywhere as a bowler.
Steyn at 21(2004) was just like him. He had pace but nothing else. 3 years later he had become a fantastic bowler.
Steyn at 21(2004) was just like him. He had pace but nothing else. 3 years later he had become a fantastic bowler.
JaDed
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While the hype is too much , I think he can be a good option if a county team signs him up, don’t see Waqar helping him..
If Faheem Ashraf can turn it around with the bat, then it's hardly a stretch of the imagination that Naseem can turn it around with the ball. Everyone on PP and their moms, aunties and pen pals didn't have faith in Faheem before the NZ tour. Yes, for now Naseem should work on his overall consistency as a bowler and stay properly fit (bowling 140+ km/h consistently) by playing in domestics and hopefully make a successful comeback.
Sami was not quicker. They both are in the 138-144kph range with occasional spells that are quicker. Sami had an out swinger and sometimes when the seam is angled towards Slip the ball would cut in. This does not count as moving the ball both ways. Its just natural variation and naseem has it too.
Naseem actually showed good seam presentation during the tour. He just swung it from outside off. If he can get closer to the stumps and move it from the stumps he will be pretty good. Too many people judge players without critically watching.
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Thunderbolt14
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I don’t think you understand. This is the worst comparison. Naseem does not have pace. Not anymore, after Waqar shortened his runup.
This kid one year ago had the ability to swing the ball and extract bounce at pace. His average in England and especially in NZ is the result of some idiot telling him to shortening his runup and forcing him to bowl 135kph line and length which is not his natural bowling.
If he fails and gets smacked when he’s bowling naturally, so be it. That’s where the comparison to Sami comes in. Will he improve or won’t he?
But the way knives are coming out on this thread to dissect him and conveniently ignoring the changes, they make it seem like he’s always been a nothing bowler. You have a somewhat measured opinion and you’re saying he’s still young, but the rest of the people here are making some absolutely disgusting comments.
He should not be anywhere near the national side the way he’s bowling right now. But to take his performance in NZ as representative of how he is as a bowler or what his potential is, that’s not fair to him at all. And to call him Sami when he doesn’t even have pace!
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Buffet
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You guys are being too harsh. Newbie bowlers often do poorly in different conditions. Yes, I know what Indian bowlers are doing in Aus, but that's not the norm.
I am not saying that he will do better by default in the future, but I won't take avg in the first tour literally. Based on what I have seen, he should be playing first-class cricket and learning to set up batsmen. Just running and bowling is not going to get wickets. It's not his fault that he is in playing XI. Selectors/captain should be criticized.
YousafTheBeast
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Sami was much quicker. Even at the end of his career he was bowling 140+KPH in the PSL.
I find it amusing why some posters are so triggered by the mention of Naseem Shah. If he is that useless, don't worry about him.
As followers of the Pakistan team, we're discussing options - what's the problem? If we are wasting our time, then let us waste our time - we're not wasting yours (although quite amusing that you choose to waste your own, by repeating the same thing...yet again).
Naseem at his fastest is still quicker than anything Aus or India currently have. This is a mediocre era of express bowling. Before we had Shoaib, Lee, Sami, Fidel Edwards bowling at 97mph+. Nowadays people are just thankful to hit 90. And even the ones that can hit 94/95 like Archer and Wood have no stamina to do it in test cricket. We get the odd spell in T20Is and that's it
On the point of Sami, yes he had more potential than Naseem. Personally, he was great to watch at his best.
As followers of the Pakistan team, we're discussing options - what's the problem? If we are wasting our time, then let us waste our time - we're not wasting yours (although quite amusing that you choose to waste your own, by repeating the same thing...yet again).
Naseem at his fastest is still quicker than anything Aus or India currently have. This is a mediocre era of express bowling. Before we had Shoaib, Lee, Sami, Fidel Edwards bowling at 97mph+. Nowadays people are just thankful to hit 90. And even the ones that can hit 94/95 like Archer and Wood have no stamina to do it in test cricket. We get the odd spell in T20Is and that's it
On the point of Sami, yes he had more potential than Naseem. Personally, he was great to watch at his best.
Nikhil_cric
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Naseem does have pace. He does does not have run up and an action that is repeatable enough for him to hit those speeds safely. Moreover, I don't think his body has matured yet to take the rigors of test match workloads yet.
Just my opinion though. Because I'm no expert. There are plenty of examples though of bowlers who were introduced too early and had to be sidelined before being unleashed a few years later -Steyn, Starc, Cummins etc. .
Naseem still has time to turn things around. The reason he gets a lot of heat is because plenty on here hyped him as the next ATG pacer at 16 , fastest pacer in Asia after 1 bowling innings etc.
Varun
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He hyped himself.
"I want to see fear in the batsman's eyes."
"I respect Kohli but don't fear him."
Big words for somebody who is shaping up to be their VRV Singh.
Nikhil_cric
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Yeah, he might have got a bit big headed after all that adulation and hes learnt some tough lessons about life as a test match bowler.
But the good thing is he has time on his side. Too early to write him off even if we take into consideration his fake age. Very few bowlers have, historically, had a consistently impactful run in test cricket at his age.
Sami was express
Thunderbolt14
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Bro these are questions put forward by journalists. Like our journalists say things like “aksar humnay dekha hai pakistan india matches mai virat kohli jesay batsmen se humaray cricketers dar jatay hain tou aap kya kehna chahen gay is baray mai”
What else should Naseem say? Tell me, please.
Don’t fall into a vicious cycle of picking up the lines that are repeated by certain posters on this forum. Do your own research and listen to the interviews yourself if you really find a statement that you can’t believe.
This is one of the quietest, most humble kids I’ve ever seen. Go see for yourself and for god’s sake stop using the gloom and doom brigade as your source of info about Pakistani players.
Thunderbolt14
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Ask Waqar please. It seems like Naseem’s almost afraid, because the shortened runup is there for everyone to see.
Just did. His answer, No, not at all.
speed_thrills
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What's wrong in Kohli statement?
thecrusade911
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I won't be sure about that.
thecrusade911
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There you go. Personally I don't think he did something amazing in his debut tour as well. He was mediocre then. He is mediocre now.
sharmaji
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I like Naseem. Came across as a nice kid (scared and confused ofcourse) in that infamous press conference in NZ. He has a lot of talent for someone who is just 17. He can change his action entirely, learn new skills, build stamina and do so many things to become a better bowler. I hope he doesn't get depressed with his performance so far and instead channel his energy into become a physically and mentally stronger athlete and a skilful bowler that Pakistan could use. He needs a physical trainer, a bowling mentor and a psychologist to help him get there.
Mamoon
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Sami was far quicker. He was a genuine fast bowler and capable of clocking 96 mph+.
Seriously, this is the main reason everyone hates him. And it is frankly ridiculous that responding to questions in a positive way can be seen as being arrogant.
What part of what he said bigs himself up or claims he's an amazing bowler?
Something doesn't look right to me.
I'm not seeing the same bowler we saw at the start of his career. The pace isn't there, the swing isn't there, the zip isn't there.
There are some technical issues no doubt.
I don’t understand. Regardless of his perceived talent or lack thereof, wasn’t his run up something everyone picked up on? Him and Waqar could make the case about the action (subtle changes which can be argued about) but didn’t the commentators also pick up on his run up? Maybe I am mixing things here.
shaaik
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I remember Mohammed Wasim saying it in the press conference that Naseem is injured and isn’t available for selection. So it’s almost certain that he was carrying an injury on the tour and was either forced by the management to play or it perhaps was his own decision to play despite of the injury.
Mamoon
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Mohammad Wasim has used this “injury” excuse for several dropped players. It seems to be his tactic of protecting the dropped players from criticism.
BalluBalleBaaz
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Test cricket or 4 day cricket is hard grind. Might make a big comeback soon.
shaaik
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Several dropped players like ??
Only imaam and naseem he stated injuired cant remember him saying any other
He clarified that Imam would not have been selected even if fit. Imam counts as a drop.
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