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[VIDEOS] Naseem Shah - A failed experiment?

Naseem Shah last 9 t20s record

4 wickets for 228 runs.

People talk about how economical he is, but a bowler who bowls at his pace and be able to take wickets and is also opening the innings is a massive concern.

1/23 v India
0/34 v Zimbabwe
1/11 v Netherlands
1/19 v South Africa
0/15 v Bangladesh
0/30 v New Zealand
0/30 v England
1/27 v Afghanistan
0/39 v Afghanistan
 
In the last ODI series which Pakistan played, Naseem was the stand out performer. Once again Pak fans are mixing formats and making generalized statements regarding a player.
 
4 wickets for 228 runs.

People talk about how economical he is, but a bowler who bowls at his pace and be able to take wickets and is also opening the innings is a massive concern.

1/23 v India
0/34 v Zimbabwe
1/11 v Netherlands
1/19 v South Africa
0/15 v Bangladesh
0/30 v New Zealand
0/30 v England
1/27 v Afghanistan
0/39 v Afghanistan

Someone needs to sit him down and tell him these returns are unacceptable
 
Disagree. One of the few players who has the x-factor.

Whether it's hitting those two sixes to win the game or getting the direct hit like he did in this game.

Needs to be persisted with.
 
Take out his first 2 T20Is and he averages 41 with the ball at an economy of 7.45 . Is not much of a wicket taker in this format but maybe they want the control that he offers?
 
Someone needs to sit him down and tell him these returns are unacceptable

Not getting wickets is not a big deal in t20s.

It is mostly about dots, sometimes the other guy gets the wickets. Just look at Abbass Afridi, no offense he is not a great bowler, yet he was topping the charts in the PSL at an economy of 9+.

That is the way it goes down occasionally in T20s. Naseem bowled 26 overs at the World Cup at an economy of 6.23 and that's not acceptable. Jeez
 
Take out his first 2 T20Is and he averages 41 with the ball at an economy of 7.45 . Is not much of a wicket taker in this format but maybe they want the control that he offers?

Thats like 4 overs 29-0. With two overs upfront and two at the death. Would take that any day.
 
He has led the attack admirably in the past year and a half and has been more reliable at the death than shaheen.
Still the second name on the odi team sheet. One bad t20 game doesnt change that.
 
In the last ODI series which Pakistan played, Naseem was the stand out performer. Once again Pak fans are mixing formats and making generalized statements regarding a player.

That's 100% true. Let's not mix formats. Drop him from t20s but not certainly not ODIS.

He was by far the best bowler from both teams vs NZ in odis. Lots of wickets and a consistent threat when other pacers seemed toothless.
I especially like his 2nd and 3rd spells in odis with the older ball when there is a hint of reverse.
 
I don’t take T20 cricket to mean anything. That said, his problem is his now horrendous bowling action and Amir Sohail is, as he often is, right on the money. They started tampering with his action whilst allowing him to play domestic cricket right at the start of his career and ruined him; there are usually protocols in place and these do not appeared to be followed, resulting in his stress fracture and he has never been the same since. He should be, alongside Mark Wood, the fastest bowler in the world, but his action is that of a robotic medium pacer than a quick and, given his relatively short height for a quick, unless he develops serious and consistent swing and seam skills needs his pace more than ever.
 
I don’t take T20 cricket to mean anything. That said, his problem is his now horrendous bowling action and Amir Sohail is, as he often is, right on the money. They started tampering with his action whilst allowing him to play domestic cricket right at the start of his career and ruined him; there are usually protocols in place and these do not appeared to be followed, resulting in his stress fracture and he has never been the same since. He should be, alongside Mark Wood, the fastest bowler in the world, but his action is that of a robotic medium pacer than a quick and, given his relatively short height for a quick, unless he develops serious and consistent swing and seam skills needs his pace more than ever.

Completely disagree he had a slow period in the middle but he's on the upswing. His pace is decent he is a consistent 140-145 bowler. He has started getting closer to the wicket and has good skills. He is not a Mark Wood type of bowler. He is decent pace with skill, more like bhumrah.

Took 8 wickets in two odis vs new Zealand, have a look at some of those dismissals. Have a look at the way he made Williamson dance before taking his wicket on a flat track. The boy knows how to bowl.
 
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Completely disagree he had a slow period in the middle but he's on the upswing. His pace is decent he is a consistent 140-145 bowler. He has started getting closer to the wicket and has good skills. He is not a Mark Wood type of bowler. He is decent pace with skill, more like bhumrah.

Took 8 wickets in two odis vs new Zealand, have a look at some of those dismissals. Have a look at the way he made Williamson dance before taking his wicket on a flat track. The boy knows how to bowl.

And that is your prerogative. I’m sad to say that prior to his probable coaching-induced injury he was yards faster. He’s not on any upswing, he’s been bowling the same pace since he came back from injury and, with his current bowling action, will struggle to ever go past 150 clicks. The range of pace you quote is slightly generous and more of a T20 four-over range than a test match one, which is significantly lower. Unfortunately, he was in the Mark Wood potential range before your genius coaches thought they’d radically change his action to prevent an injury they likely caused, whilst allowing him to simultaneously start playing domestic cricket whilst his body was developing. I’m not interested in whether you personally believe him to be a skilled bowler, his figures clearly do not bear that out yet. The point you are missing is not that I ever claimed he’s a bad bowler either, it was a reference to his windmill bowling action that is inhibiting him from bowling with the pace and control that he can and a damning indictment of your domestic coaches who’ve taken a bowler whose standout pace was, if I recall correctly, pointed out by Waqar as having once-in-a-generation potential. If you want to talk about what a good bowler is, let’s stick to red ball cricket, getting wickets when the sole purpose is to score runs against you isn’t really anything to lay any stock on.

Contrary you your claim, I don’t really rate Bumrah nor his supposed skill - I’m with Mr. Razzaq on this one, gunbarrel straight bowler with a questionable action whose wickets are not gained through skill, but by his innate ability to release the ball a yard or more closer to the batsman on account of his unusual bowling action which batsman struggle to pick up, making him appear much faster than he actually is.
 
And that is your prerogative. I’m sad to say that prior to his probable coaching-induced injury he was yards faster. He’s not on any upswing, he’s been bowling the same pace since he came back from injury and, with his current bowling action, will struggle to ever go past 150 clicks. The range of pace you quote is slightly generous and more of a T20 four-over range than a test match one, which is significantly lower. Unfortunately, he was in the Mark Wood potential range before your genius coaches thought they’d radically change his action to prevent an injury they likely caused, whilst allowing him to simultaneously start playing domestic cricket whilst his body was developing. I’m not interested in whether you personally believe him to be a skilled bowler, his figures clearly do not bear that out yet. The point you are missing is not that I ever claimed he’s a bad bowler either, it was a reference to his windmill bowling action that is inhibiting him from bowling with the pace and control that he can and a damning indictment of your domestic coaches who’ve taken a bowler whose standout pace was, if I recall correctly, pointed out by Waqar as having once-in-a-generation potential. If you want to talk about what a good bowler is, let’s stick to red ball cricket, getting wickets when the sole purpose is to score runs against you isn’t really anything to lay any stock on.

Contrary you your claim, I don’t really rate Bumrah nor his supposed skill - I’m with Mr. Razzaq on this one, gunbarrel straight bowler with a questionable action whose wickets are not gained through skill, but by his innate ability to release the ball a yard or more closer to the batsman on account of his unusual bowling action which batsman struggle to pick up, making him appear much faster than he actually is.

You lost me when you cited Waqar Younis and Abdur Razzaq as your experts.

You also lost me when you stated that Bhumrah is gun barrel straight and solely relies on deceiving batters on an extra yard of pace. Test batters do not repeatedly get fooled by a yard of pace; they can make those adjustments.

Have a look at some of his dismissals in England, where he repeatedly moves the ball both ways including bowling outswingers to left handers from around the wicket.

You are right Naseem is probably 140-145 in 4 over spells, closer to an average speed of 138kph is tests. You are entitled to your opinion; I rate him quite highly. He was never Mark Wood for me, always a decently paced bowler with a good wrist. His action always reminded me of Andrew Caddick
 
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^ Just to follow up Abdur Razzaq is the same guy who said Ahmed Shehzad is more talented than Tendulkar. Less said about Waqar the better.
 
You lost me when you cited Waqar Younis and Abdur Razzaq as your experts.

You also lost me when you stated that Bhumrah is gun barrel straight and solely relies on deceiving batters on an extra yard of pace. Test batters do not repeatedly get fooled by a yard of pace; they can make those adjustments.

Have a look at some of his dismissals in England, where he repeatedly moves the ball both ways including bowling outswingers to left handers from around the wicket.

You are right Naseem is probably 140-145 in 4 over spells, closer to an average speed of 138kph is tests. You are entitled to your opinion; I rate him quite highly. He was never Mark Wood for me, always a decently paced bowler with a good wrist. His action always reminded me of Andrew Caddick

I never cited them as my experts, so thank you for the straw man, I merely stated I agreed with them on these specific points. They have, however, played for their country with distinction, something which you never have. It’s remarkable that you, and others on this forum, have such utter contempt and disrespect for your own former greats, instantly dismissing anything they say notwithstanding their performances and experiences in this specific field. That says more about your attitude, and perhaps indicates some kind of complex, than it does about the validity of my comments. I’m sure Waqar knows a potential world-class quick when he sees one, even if he isn’t quite so magnificent as a national coach. Bear in mind that since you decided to bring in all these foreign coaches and stopped listening to your own domestic greats you’ve started to go down the same path as hockey/squash and for the same reasons.

Again, I suggest you try to understand what I wrote rather than assuming what I didn’t imply. It’s not about Bumrah’s extra yard of pace - he’s doesn’t have one in absolute terms, it’s about the ability of the batsman to pick up the ball through his unusual action allied to the fact that he’s much closer to them when he delivers. That’s very difficult to coach against; this is known and well documented and had you played the game to decent level or had any involvement with it, you would know that. It’s his bowling action not the pace per se. A weak away-swinger, for example, delivered at 85-87mph from a 5ft 9in bowler would not cause the problems he does under normal circumstances.

Furthermore, I suggest you desist from the condescension. I’ve watched more international cricketers over the last 4-5 decades than you ever will. I don’t just watch dismissals, I watch entire spells and the fact is for the most part that he is the epitome of gunbarrel straight, certainly when compared to his predecessors and any movement he gets is minuscule for the most part, it’s just that modern batsman are so focussed on scoring in white ball mode, they just can’t leave it alone.

And again regarding Naseem Shah, I never said he was a bad bowler, I just made it clear that he could have been, and still could be, far better had it not been for your domestic coaches’ efforts. So please, read what I actually wrote and refrain from misrepresenting my posts. If you want to compare a bowler who’s approximately 5ft 9in to someone who’s not far shy of a foot taller than him and pretend their bowling actions have any relevance then I’ll leave you be. He was never Mark Wood to you because you never saw him before his injury. Anyone who knows anything knows he’s a serious quick with a medium-pace action currently.
 
I never cited them as my experts, so thank you for the straw man, I merely stated I agreed with them on these specific points. They have, however, played for their country with distinction, something which you never have. It’s remarkable that you, and others on this forum, have such utter contempt and disrespect for your own former greats, instantly dismissing anything they say notwithstanding their performances and experiences in this specific field. That says more about your attitude, and perhaps indicates some kind of complex, than it does about the validity of my comments. I’m sure Waqar knows a potential world-class quick when he sees one, even if he isn’t quite so magnificent as a national coach. Bear in mind that since you decided to bring in all these foreign coaches and stopped listening to your own domestic greats you’ve started to go down the same path as hockey/squash and for the same reasons.

Again, I suggest you try to understand what I wrote rather than assuming what I didn’t imply. It’s not about Bumrah’s extra yard of pace - he’s doesn’t have one in absolute terms, it’s about the ability of the batsman to pick up the ball through his unusual action allied to the fact that he’s much closer to them when he delivers. That’s very difficult to coach against; this is known and well documented and had you played the game to decent level or had any involvement with it, you would know that. It’s his bowling action not the pace per se. A weak away-swinger, for example, delivered at 85-87mph from a 5ft 9in bowler would not cause the problems he does under normal circumstances.

Furthermore, I suggest you desist from the condescension. I’ve watched more international cricketers over the last 4-5 decades than you ever will. I don’t just watch dismissals, I watch entire spells and the fact is for the most part that he is the epitome of gunbarrel straight, certainly when compared to his predecessors and any movement he gets is minuscule for the most part, it’s just that modern batsman are so focussed on scoring in white ball mode, they just can’t leave it alone.

And again regarding Naseem Shah, I never said he was a bad bowler, I just made it clear that he could have been, and still could be, far better had it not been for your domestic coaches’ efforts. So please, read what I actually wrote and refrain from misrepresenting my posts. If you want to compare a bowler who’s approximately 5ft 9in to someone who’s not far shy of a foot taller than him and pretend their bowling actions have any relevance then I’ll leave you be. He was never Mark Wood to you because you never saw him before his injury. Anyone who knows anything knows he’s a serious quick with a medium-pace action currently.


I really do not disagree with you on much. You say Naseem could have been Mark Wood. I am just happy to see that he is evolving from what I saw in New Zealand 2021 where he was balling wide of the crease filth.

Thanks for your clarification on Bhumrahs release point but we have all seen the videos. Naveen ul Haq has a similar one too. I just doubt that a bowler can average close to 20 bowling gun barrel straight as you say. Maybe my eyes deceive me, and you would know more since you watch more international cricket than anyone else.

As far as your assumption about some sort of disrespect towards Waqar and Razzaq, I have none. They do not seem the most technical analysts and often say politicized content. I am a huge fan of both, but I have not heard them make much analytical sense.

My Andrew Caddick comment was more to keep things lighthearted, very aware of the height differential.

Happy posting.
 
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