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Virat Kohli - A bottler in ODI knockouts?

lol mamoons desperation is beyond funny haha:yk

Way i see it me and other amla fans have already accepted amla's shortcomings in the knock out matches and we are not really digging up amla's clutch knocks from the test arena to big him up

and i respect a lot of the indian kohli fans accepting kohli's issues in the knockouts...but there is one PAKISTANI who is trying to force the tiranga club to still try to demolish amla because kohli is better in t20's...makes a lot of sense lol....no tests no t20s...as far as odis are concerned both have not performed upto potentional and no point trying to big up any of the two for a 30 odd or a 70 etc...both have MASSIVELY underperformed and both need to correct that....and kohli has more time on his hands to correct it no doubt about that so lets wait and watch....but no our mamoon has to desperately post the same bs in every thread to show why his love kohli is still sooooooooooo goooood lol....let it be man...both have not done enough...and before you bring up t20s kohli is a proven performer in t20s compared to amla right now...so yes kohli is better there no doubt about it...stop dragging irrelevant stuff to big up kohli because FACT is that both amla and kohli have been failures in knockouts of world cups...case closed
 
pakistani pride said:
Wow this joker will cross all boundaries to defend his parosee hero.
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lol yes and i dont get why he is acting so desperate after kohli's failure in the semis...dont see amla fans doing it...i think he is hurt right now...he keeps posting bs....give him some time and he may even try to make a case for kohli being as clutch as ponting/gilly/viv in knock outs...he is becoming a pretty boring troll now...and knowing him and considering his 50 k odd posts on pp he will continue posting the same bs long after others stop talking about the issue....
 
You guys are going on and on about this topic as if both players have played 20-25 knockouts in ODIs . Here is entire list of knockouts in ODIs for both,

.
Amla:
knockouts_amla.jpg
.
.

Knokcouts-kohli.jpg

So Amla has played 4 knockouts and Kohli has played 7. So not a huge sample size for both here. Kohli did have some decent knocks and Amla has none but Kohli has played 3 extra knockouts. So this entire knockout discussion is useless in my opinion.

Now, if you ask me who I will pick for bigger stage then I will pick Kohli. Kohli has more substantial knocks in WC, Champions trophy and world T20 than Amla. But talking about their knockouts in ODI as comparison hardly makes much sense.
 
Kohli has damaged his reputation big time. What he did was utter garbage. It would have been fine had he gotten out in a conventional way, but what he did.. that was criminal. Anyone can get out cheaply of course but Kohli did what Pakistani batsmen do.. a brainless shot! A batsmen of Kohli's caliber should have realized the following things

a) He needed to take singles and stay on the wicket to move the game forward.
b)Clarke brought Johnson back to get his wicket.
c)When johnson tastes blood he goes for the kill, which he did by getting rid of Rohit too soon after.
d)Kohli had 20/30 overs from lesser quality bowlers to cash in after seeing off johnson.

He played like as if he was totally oblivious to these facts.
 
Amla and Kohli both have been well below par at WC. Kohli averages 32 after 10 matches while Amla averages 31 after 9 matches. (against non-minnows)
 
Mamoon said:
Kohli has actually been out of form for a while now, but :amla bhai came into the tournament with a bohemian average of 100 in 2015. Another factor that counts against bhai.
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kohli scored 4 centuries in tests against australia in same conditions, so 'out of form' argument is quite flawed.
 
asif81 said:
kohli scored 4 centuries in tests against australia in same conditions, so 'out of form' argument is quite flawed.
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Not necessary.

He has bottled in WC knockouts but out of form isn't a stupid argument.

Here's why:

1. Flopped in England away ODI series
2. Did well against SL and WI ODI home series but played at No 4 and never looked the same
3. Flopped big time in the Aus tri series

Then scratchy innings against Pak and SA and some minnow 50s and then complete flop against Bang and Aus.

Test series he was like in dream mode but the tri series post test, he could hardly score any runs fast.
 
Anfield said:
Kohli has damaged his reputation big time. What he did was utter garbage. It would have been fine had he gotten out in a conventional way, but what he did.. that was criminal. Anyone can get out cheaply of course but Kohli did what Pakistani batsmen do.. a brainless shot! A batsmen of Kohli's caliber should have realized the following things

a) He needed to take singles and stay on the wicket to move the game forward.
b)Clarke brought Johnson back to get his wicket.
c)When johnson tastes blood he goes for the kill, which he did by getting rid of Rohit too soon after.
d)Kohli had 20/30 overs from lesser quality bowlers to cash in after seeing off johnson.

He played like as if he was totally oblivious to these facts.
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Indeed. He has damaged his reputation big time as of now.

But I think shot wasn't stupid.

He planned to keep it down but couldn't.

He was standing so front of the crease that he didn't have the time to execute it.

I blame it on poor execution and not shot selection. The same shot he has literally played countless times against Mitch in Aus in the test series and he kept the ball down.
 
Why should there be even a debate. He's bottled it and with it also frittered away a chance to be counted among true ODI greats. He may go onto to pile on more 100s till the next WC but these two knocks will be remembered longer than those 100s.

Imagine if Yasir Shah had taken the catch he offered when he was batting on 3! Would have been a complete meltdown. Biggest disappointment of the WC.
 
cricketindiafan said:
Why should there be even a debate. He's bottled it and with it also frittered away a chance to be counted among true ODI greats. He may go onto to pile on more 100s till the next WC but these two knocks will be remembered longer than those 100s.

Imagine if Yasir Shah had taken the catch he offered when he was batting on 3! Would have been a complete meltdown. Biggest disappointment of the WC.
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That's true. :))

Yasir's catch was harder. Imagine Akmal taking a simple catch.

Gosh....today's era makes a lot of batsmen look way better than what they are.

Its hard to judge.

When useless and unreliable Rohit can average 50 as opener, there is no hope.

Yes this will go down as bottling but more than bottling, Kohli has been consistently poor in ODIs for over a year now. Out of zone I would so. With that being said, if one has to be counted among ODI greats, one has to perform.

Flopping in 2 WCs in this batting era is CRIMINAL to say the least.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Guys...I think both Kohli and Amla average 50 odd in WC 2015.

That's modern ODI for you. :)))
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Modern ODis have nothing to do with it. Kohli was lucky against Pakistan, and has few not out innings too in this WC.Hence his avg is 50+. Amla scored a 150+ runs against a minnow, and hence the average. What modern ODI has to do with it!
 
Enforcer said:
Modern ODis have nothing to do with it. Kohli was lucky against Pakistan, and has few not out innings too in this WC.Hence his avg is 50+. Amla scored a 150+ runs against a minnow, and hence the average. What modern ODI has to do with it!
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In the old times, matches against minnows would have main teams scoring 250 odd and minnows getting bowled out for 100-150...or maybe 175.

In today's times, matches against minnows has main teams scoring 400 and them getting bowled out for 200.

Big big difference.

Minnow bashing has been 1000X more effective in today's times.

Moeen Ali scored a 120 against Scotland or else his average would have been less than 20 in this WC.

Plus against main teams too...avg score has increased which is why we could pile up runs against Pak and SA when we batted first and Aus piled up runs against us when they batted first.

It has got everything to do with modern ODIs buddy.
 
Champions Trophy Final.
Wt20 Final.
WC Final (Ignore the score board but situation)
 
Strike Rate said:
oh yea Afridi is ATG pressure player because he performed in World T20 so lets use it for ODI WC too just like we are doing for Kohli!
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you forgot to mention umer akmal for 2011 t20 semi final against AUS and 41 against SA in 2012 t20 wc.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
In the old times, matches against minnows would have main teams scoring 250 odd and minnows getting bowled out for 100-150...or maybe 175.

In today's times, matches against minnows has main teams scoring 400 and them getting bowled out for 200.

Big big difference.

Minnow bashing has been 1000X more effective in today's times.

Moeen Ali scored a 120 against Scotland or else his average would have been less than 20 in this WC.

Plus against main teams too...avg score has increased which is why we could pile up runs against Pak and SA when we batted first and Aus piled up runs against us when they batted first.

It has got everything to do with modern ODIs buddy.
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Minnow Bashing existed in the past too. In 1996 WC, Srilanka smashed 398 against Kenya. In 2015 WC Australia Smashed 417 against Afghanistan. And if you consider the depth of batting Aussie have, i don't Know how modern cricket influenced Minnow-bashing.
 
Enforcer said:
Minnow Bashing existed in the past too. In 1996 WC, Srilanka smashed 398 against Kenya. In 2015 WC Australia Smashed 417 against Afghanistan. And if you consider the depth of batting Aussie have, i don't Know how modern cricket influenced Minnow-bashing.
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Those stuff were rare in the past.

India too made 373 against SL in the 90s that too in England in WC 1999.

Doesn't mean batting in 90s was super easy.
 
Enforcer said:
Minnow Bashing existed in the past too. In 1996 WC, Srilanka smashed 398 against Kenya. In 2015 WC Australia Smashed 417 against Afghanistan. And if you consider the depth of batting Aussie have, i don't Know how modern cricket influenced Minnow-bashing.
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19 centuries were scored against minnow teams in this world by top 8 nation players i think in previous worldcups the highest was 9 centuries against minnows.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Those stuff were rare in the past.

India too made 373 against SL in the 90s that too in England in WC 1999.

Doesn't mean batting in 90s was super easy.
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check my post above i checked some stats and are surprised to see the number of centuries scored by top 8 nation players against minnows in this world cup that's even more than double if you compare it with highest number of centuries against minnows by top nation players in past world cups
 
Modern cricket rules, pitches, bats made batting easy which in turn made minnow's bowling even weaker.

Hence the disparity.

If India had batted first against UAE, Zim and Ireland, Indian players would have averaged 20 runs more.

Kohli would have slammed a century or a 150 along with a couple of 50s.

Easy peasy.

Rohit may have had a 200.

That's the problem with modern ODIs.
 
Strike Rate said:
check my post above i checked some stats and are surprised to see the number of centuries scored by top 8 nation players against minnows in this world cup that's even more than double if you compare it with highest number of centuries against minnows by top nation players in past world cups
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yup.....Good point.

Teams with weaker bowling would get creamed in today's era.

India chased 270 against Ireland with absolute ease. If we had batted first, I am sure we would have had 2 centurions and maybe a Rohit 200.
 
^interestingly Australia couldn't defend 434 runs against SouthAfrica at wanderers back in 2006. It happened in an era, with old field restrictions, with one new ball rule. It happened in pre T20/IPL era! Do you think southAfrica or any country can do this again, against Australia? Especially against the likes of Johnson and starc??

If no then Why? Moral of the story - Mediocre talents will be perished, and the real one will flourish, irrespective of eras and rules.
 
Enforcer said:
^interestingly Australia couldn't defend 434 runs against SouthAfrica at wanderers back in 2006. It happened in an era, with old field restrictions, with one new ball rule. It happened in pre T20/IPL era! Do you think southAfrica or any country can do this again, against Australia? Especially against the likes of Johnson and starc??

If no then Why? Moral of the story - Mediocre talents will be perished, and the real one will flourish, irrespective of eras and rules.
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Exceptions don't become rules.

Anwar scored 194 in 90s.
Ganguly scored 183 in 90s.
Kapil scored 175 in 80s on a pacer friendly track.
SRT scored a 183 (2000 odd), 175 , etc before 2 new balls.

In a large sample set, you always get the right picture.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
In the old times, matches against minnows would have main teams scoring 250 odd and minnows getting bowled out for 100-150...or maybe 175.

In today's times, matches against minnows has main teams scoring 400 and them getting bowled out for 200.

Big big difference.

Minnow bashing has been 1000X more effective in today's times.

Moeen Ali scored a 120 against Scotland or else his average would have been less than 20 in this WC.

Plus against main teams too...avg score has increased which is why we could pile up runs against Pak and SA when we batted first and Aus piled up runs against us when they batted first.

It has got everything to do with modern ODIs buddy.
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SIF buddy, minnows were thrashed in all WCs. Which is why they were labelled minnows. Most of the highest individual scores and team scores stood against the minnows, from times immemorial. Nowadays, minnows are more competitive than ever before. The batting averages of test playing nations against the minnows in WC jump between 25-100% compared to test playing nations and this trend has existed from the early days.
 
IndianWillow said:
SIF buddy, minnows were thrashed in all WCs. Which is why they were labelled minnows. Most of the highest individual scores and team scores stood against the minnows, from times immemorial. Nowadays, minnows are more competitive than ever before. The batting averages of test playing nations against the minnows in WC jump between 25-100% compared to test playing nations and this trend has existed from the early days.
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Minnows were always bashed,.

But this WC, we have twice the amount of centurions against minnows compared to last WC (which itself was very batting friendly).

How can you deny it bro?

Minnow bashing is super easy in this era.
 
[MENTION=132861]asif81[/MENTION]

I hope that unlike others, you have the intelligence and the capacity to understand the point.

The likes of Umar, Afridi, Tharanga etc. are simply not comparable to the likes of Amla bhai. Just because they performed in a couple of ICC knockouts does not make them better players.

Munaf Patel took a 3 fer in a World Cup semifinal, while Steyn was taken to the cleaners. Does this make Patel a better bowler? Absolutely not. They aren't even comparable by any stretch of imagination.

Elliot has won his country two semifinals, does that mean he is better than Amla bhai and Kohli? Again, absolutely not. He isn't even competing with him.

Now is Elliot better than someone comparable to him because of his perfomance in knockouts? definitely.

Amla bhai and Kohli are players of comparable stature, ability and record. They are regularly touted as among the best batsmen in the game.

Compared to Amla bhai, Kohli has done better in ICC knockouts.

He has done well in Champions Trophy, World T20 and has been poor in the World Cup

Amla bhai has been miserable in Champions Trophy, World T20 and the World Cup

Amla bhai isn't a T20 player, but neither is Kohli - he is not a power hitter. However, he has found a way to succeed in T20s while Amla bhai hasn't. This simply shows that he has a greater range and adaptability.

Amla bhai at the moment is ahead in Test cricket, but if Kohli's performance in the recent Australian series is anything to go by, he will probably catch up to bhai by the time he's bhai's age. Already, he deserves to be considered a better Limited Overs cricketer based on the aforementioned reasons.

Even if take World Cups in isolation, Kohli's World Cup final 2011 knock in context is a much better innings than any of Amla bhai's World Cup knockout knocks. It is hardly something to talk about, but it counts when you compare him to Amla bhai's body of work.

Kohli has scored a World Cup hundred vs. Pakistan, while both of Amla bhai's World Cup hundreds have come against Associates.

Kohli was criticized for not being able to scoring runs while batting first, and he responded with a hundred against Pakistan in the most highly anticipated group game of the tournament.

Amla bhai was criticized for being a poor chaser, and he responded by failing against India, Pakistan and even Sri Lanka (while chasing a meagre total).

It is interesting that Kohli's drop catches vs. Pakistan is being used to put down his innings, while at the same time ignoring the fact that Amla bhai was dropped at 10 vs. Ireland, and then he went on to score 159. How will you justify these double standards?

If we start taking dropped catches into account, the records of a lot of batsmen/bowlers will have to be readjusted, because in the long-run, every batsman with a significant body of work has benefited from dropped catches/missed chances, and has also been at the receiving end of some brutally fantastic fielding.

Similarly, a lot of bowlers have been unlucky due to fielders dropping dollies and at the same time, they have been lucky because they have managed to take wickets on poor deliveries because of the brilliance of the fielders.

We will also have to disregard Amla bhai's half-century vs. Pakistan in the Champions Trophy 2013 because he was dropped on 7.

If Amla bhai does well in the 2019 World Cup and Kohli fails, he will go down as a better pressure player. Similarly at the moment, Sangakkara deserved to be considered a greater pressure batsman than both Amla bhai and Kohli based on his brilliance in this World Cup.

I hope its clear now.
 
Strike Rate said:
19 centuries were scored against minnow teams in this world by top 8 nation players i think in previous worldcups the highest was 9 centuries against minnows.
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Check Indian team of 2011 WC and the check this team of 2015 WC. There we had all the top 6 players having 85+ S/R, now we have some one like Rahane who is still striking at 70s. There we smashed bangladesh for 370+ runs, here we just able to reach over 300. Check Dhoni's S/R in 2011 and Now. Can you see any change?

We had modern players with IPL experience, modern rules, then why this??
 
For those putting down Kohli's hundred vs. Pakistan because of the dropped catches, Amla bhai was dropped on 10 by Joyce, but lets not talk about that because it is haram :amla

The double standards will give me cancer.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Minnows were always bashed,.

But this WC, we have twice the amount of centurions against minnows compared to last WC (which itself was very batting friendly).

How can you deny it bro?

Minnow bashing is super easy in this era.
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Just because we have some gifted players now. Devillers, Mccullum, maxwell has taken the game to another level. They can play some shots that was never seen or heard before. And it is called evolution of a game.
 
Enforcer said:
Just because we have some gifted players now. Devillers, Mccullum, maxwell has taken the game to another level. They can play some shots that was never seen or heard before. And it is called evolution of a game.
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If the said players can whack it when the going gets tough, its truly an evolution of the game.

Against NZ in a good pitch - Aus collapsed.
Against WI in a good pitch - India collapsed.
Against Pak in a good pitch - SA collapsed.
Against Pak in a normal pitch - Aus huffed and puffed to chase 213.
Against Zim in Zim on a decent track - Didn't Aus lose 1 game
Against Eng in CT 2013 SF, SA collapsed
Against SA in a tougher spin Syndey track, SL collapsed
Against SL in a greener track in SL, India collapsed to 150 allout (we won the series 4-1 cos other tracks weren't like this)

When these batsmen can own bowlers in good tracks consistently, we can say batsman have evolved to play anywhere.

For now, they are evolved in shot making which works in easy and decent tracks ONLY.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Minnows were always bashed,.

But this WC, we have twice the amount of centurions against minnows compared to last WC (which itself was very batting friendly).

How can you deny it bro?

Minnow bashing is super easy in this era.
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Century making itself is not a criterion by itself. In fact, there were more centuries made against regular sides as well. Sanga alone made 4 centuries this WC and three were against non minnows. Minnows made centuries against minnows too - how is that bashing of minnows by big sides? The S/R in this world cup is about 10% higher than the previous WC, which will necessarily mean that more runs are scored. A part of the extra runs will go under the "minnow bashing" head, but on a relative scale minnows put up better fight that ever before.
 
He doesn't seem to fail much against Pakistan. He is a world class player without a doubt.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk
 
IndianWillow said:
Century making itself is not a criterion by itself. In fact, there were more centuries made against regular sides as well. Sanga alone made 4 centuries this WC and three were against non minnows. Minnows made centuries against minnows too - how is that bashing of minnows by big sides? The S/R in this world cup is about 10% higher than the previous WC, which will necessarily mean that more runs are scored. A part of the extra runs will go under the "minnow bashing" head, but on a relative scale minnows put up better fight that ever before.
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In my first post you qouted I did say batting against all has become easier and against minnows who have weak bowling, it has become MORE easier.

Case in point runs scored against minnows and centuries.

Everyone gets bashed.

Minnows get bashed a lot more.
 
Mamoon said:
[MENTION=132861]asif81[/MENTION]

I hope that unlike others, you have the intelligence and the capacity to understand the point.

The likes of Umar, Afridi, Tharanga etc. are simply not comparable to the likes of Amla bhai. Just because they performed in a couple of ICC knockouts does not make them better players.

Munaf Patel took a 3 fer in a World Cup semifinal, while Steyn was taken to the cleaners. Does this make Patel a better bowler? Absolutely not. They aren't even comparable by any stretch of imagination.

Elliot has won his country two semifinals, does that mean he is better than Amla bhai and Kohli? Again, absolutely not. He isn't even competing with him.

Now is Elliot better than someone comparable to him because of his perfomance in knockouts? definitely.

Amla bhai and Kohli are players of comparable stature, ability and record. They are regularly touted as among the best batsmen in the game.

Compared to Amla bhai, Kohli has done better in ICC knockouts.

He has done well in Champions Trophy, World T20 and has been poor in the World Cup

Amla bhai has been miserable in Champions Trophy, World T20 and the World Cup

Amla bhai isn't a T20 player, but neither is Kohli - he is not a power hitter. However, he has found a way to succeed in T20s while Amla bhai hasn't. This simply shows that he has a greater range and adaptability.

Amla bhai at the moment is ahead in Test cricket, but if Kohli's performance in the recent Australian series is anything to go by, he will probably catch up to bhai by the time he's bhai's age. Already, he deserves to be considered a better Limited Overs cricketer based on the aforementioned reasons.

Even if take World Cups in isolation, Kohli's World Cup final 2011 knock in context is a much better innings than any of Amla bhai's World Cup knockout knocks. It is hardly something to talk about, but it counts when you compare him to Amla bhai's body of work.

Kohli has scored a World Cup hundred vs. Pakistan, while both of Amla bhai's World Cup hundreds have come against Associates.

Kohli was criticized for not being able to scoring runs while batting first, and he responded with a hundred against Pakistan in the most highly anticipated group game of the tournament.

Amla bhai was criticized for being a poor chaser, and he responded by failing against India, Pakistan and even Sri Lanka (while chasing a meagre total).

It is interesting that Kohli's drop catches vs. Pakistan is being used to put down his innings, while at the same time ignoring the fact that Amla bhai was dropped at 10 vs. Ireland, and then he went on to score 159. How will you justify these double standards?

If we start taking dropped catches into account, the records of a lot of batsmen/bowlers will have to be readjusted, because in the long-run, every batsman with a significant body of work has benefited from dropped catches/missed chances, and has also been at the receiving end of some brutally fantastic fielding.

Similarly, a lot of bowlers have been unlucky due to fielders dropping dollies and at the same time, they have been lucky because they have managed to take wickets on poor deliveries because of the brilliance of the fielders.

We will also have to disregard Amla bhai's half-century vs. Pakistan in the Champions Trophy 2013 because he was dropped on 7.

If Amla bhai does well in the 2019 World Cup and Kohli fails, he will go down as a better pressure player. Similarly at the moment, Sangakkara deserved to be considered a greater pressure batsman than both Amla bhai and Kohli based on his brilliance in this World Cup.

I hope its clear now.
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amla is definitely bottler, this fact requires no justification.
But this is also a fact that kohli was not able to cope with pressure against australia, you dont play 2 overs to get yourselves in , in a world cup semi final chasing 329.
Problem with kohli is that when things are going his way, he will demolish you. but as soon as he gets out of his comfort zone he looses his cool, same happened in semi final as well. Australia very smartly did not allow him any easy single which made him loose his cool and play a risky stroke.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
In my first post you qouted I did say batting against all has become easier and against minnows who have weak bowling, it has become MORE easier.

Case in point runs scored against minnows and centuries.

Everyone gets bashed.

Minnows get bashed a lot more.
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By the same token, top sides got bashed by minnows more than ever before. Three hundreds were scored by the minnows against regular sides in this WC compared to six combined in all the nine previous WC!!
 
IndianWillow said:
By the same token, top sides got bashed by minnows more than ever before. Three hundreds were scored by the minnows against regular sides in this WC compared to six combined in all the nine previous WC!!
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Batting became easy neutralizing bowling so minnows scored more.

When the main sides batted, they destroyed minnows.

Minnows became more competitive due to their batting but the main sides batting strength was too much.

Scoring 400 and letting a minnow score 250 would look like minnows bashed main team's bowling but the reality is not.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Indeed. He has damaged his reputation big time as of now.

But I think shot wasn't stupid.

He planned to keep it down but couldn't.

He was standing so front of the crease that he didn't have the time to execute it.

I blame it on poor execution and not shot selection. The same shot he has literally played countless times against Mitch in Aus in the test series and he kept the ball down.
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In test series it's fine because bowlers can bowl longer spells and batsmen have to do something to upset their rythm. But in such a high pressure WC match where Johnson was specially brought in for this over it was a very stupid shot to play IMO. Kohli was struggling to get going and he knew Johnson won't bowl more than 2-3 overs spell here, it was best to negate him.
 
Anfield said:
In test series it's fine because bowlers can bowl longer spells and batsmen have to do something to upset their rythm. But in such a high pressure WC match where Johnson was specially brought in for this over it was a very stupid shot to play IMO. Kohli was struggling to get going and he knew Johnson won't bowl more than 2-3 overs spell here, it was best to negate him.
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If it pops up in tests, he would be crucified more.

But yeah I agree he could have played it calm. The earlier dot balls made him do it.
 
Virat Kohli is nowhere near Viv Richards, Sachin Tendulkar or Ricky Ponting

Each big game, he fails. SF ave of ~4.
Pressure game - he goes missing.
 
Here we og again.. Can India win this one so Kohli can get another chance in the Final?
 
Virat Kohli's struggles in World Cup semi-finals

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TV commentators saying Virat Kohli's scores in his 3 World Cup semi-finals:<br><br>9<br>1<br>1<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CWC19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CWC19</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvNZ?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvNZ</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1148900866549800960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Difficult to compare different era and Kohli is still playing. So once his career ends only then we will get to know where he stands.
 
big_gamer007 said:
Difficult to compare different era and Kohli is still playing. So once his career ends only then we will get to know where he stands.
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Agreed.

In the meanwhile, if Kohli fans stop making him the GOAT, it would be nice.

He's nowhere near them atm.

Thanks.
 
He did play a crucial knock of 25 in 2011 world cup final.

However Tendulkar, Ponting had a to face some of the greatest bowlers like Warne, McGrath, Donald, Murali, Wasim, Waqur, Ambrose, Walsh, Steyn, Pollock.
 
big_gamer007 said:
Difficult to compare different era and Kohli is still playing. So once his career ends only then we will get to know where he stands.
Click to expand...

Not really. 3 SF's and CT final is a good sample of 'big pressure' games. He bottles it. The other three, esp IVA and RP, would light up the biggest stage. VK doesn't.
 
Shhhhh.....
Keep your mouth sealed. He is above criticism.
Criticism is only reserved for Grandpa Dhoni.
 
His fans get upset but he hasn’t done anything in big tournament matches . Too emotional imo.

Viv could hook a fast bowler for 6 without a helmet , chewing gum in a final . Coolest & GOAT :viv
 
Unless India pull off a miraculous chase tonight and he makes up for it in the final, this is a damning statistic, especially taking into account his failure in the CT 2017 final as well
 
KingKhanWC said:
His fans get upset but he hasn’t done anything in big tournament matches . Too emotional imo.

Viv could hook a fast bowler for 6 without a helmet , chewing gum in a final . Coolest & GOAT :viv
Click to expand...

No one who has seen all these guys would put anymore in the same league as Viv. 2023 will probably be VK's last chance to go down in that top bracket. Fans be damned, facts are evident.
 
hate kholi (cricketing rivalary) but he is def better than SRT... i would say some miles ahead... is he better than King Viv, never thought he was ... Viv would thrive under pressure and take on at the international stage... kholi seems to falter... if this was a bilateral game, he would finish it in 30 overs but on a big tournament pressure, he is faltering... SF-2011, SF-WC-2015, CT-2017 final, and today... disappointing ...

but he is still a king ..
 
Rellu_Katta said:
hate kholi (cricketing rivalary) but he is def better than SRT... i would say some miles ahead... is he better than King Viv, never thought he was ... Viv would thrive under pressure and take on at the international stage... kholi seems to falter... if this was a bilateral game, he would finish it in 30 overs but on a big tournament pressure, he is faltering... SF-2011, SF-WC-2015, CT-2017 final, and today... disappointing ...

but he is still a king ..
Click to expand...

Viv and Ponting were lions. 🦁
 
Rellu_Katta said:
hate kholi (cricketing rivalary) but he is def better than SRT... i would say some miles ahead... is he better than King Viv, never thought he was ... Viv would thrive under pressure and take on at the international stage... kholi seems to falter... if this was a bilateral game, he would finish it in 30 overs but on a big tournament pressure, he is faltering... SF-2011, SF-WC-2015, CT-2017 final, and today... disappointing ...

but he is still a king ..
Click to expand...

Oh be serious, SRT can't do worse than Virat Kohli.
 
Tiger96 said:
Oh be serious, SRT can't do worse than Virat Kohli.
Click to expand...

as a cricketer, Kholi is miles ahead... i wont just look at how he bats but how he makes others around him bat, how he takes the team with him... SRT never got his team going ... never had that effect on others, kholi does...

same reason why i feel Ganguly, Dhoni and now kholi are indian giants n Kapil dev and SRT are on the lower ladder.
 
bujhee kom said:
Not really. 3 SF's and CT final is a good sample of 'big pressure' games. He bottles it. The other three, esp IVA and RP, would light up the biggest stage. VK doesn't.
Click to expand...

What if he scores big in next final? Or he makes India win 2023 world cup single handlely?

Point is Kohli is still playing, once his career is over only then people will know where he stands.
 
Rellu_Katta said:
as a cricketer, Kholi is miles ahead... i wont just look at how he bats but how he makes others around him bat, how he takes the team with him... SRT never got his team going ... never had that effect on others, kholi does...

same reason why i feel Ganguly, Dhoni and now kholi are indian giants n Kapil dev and SRT are on the lower ladder.
Click to expand...

With due respect to Kohli, SRT was a God like Viv in the 90s, Kohli has always been in ABD and Rohit's shadow.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Strawman Fallacy. In soccer, club matches are the main format, in cricket it's World Cup.
Click to expand...

:ibutt

I was actually talking about club matches. But yes, WC too.

He's long been criticized for not scoring enough in CL knockout matches.
 
big_gamer007 said:
What if he scores big in next final? Or he makes India win 2023 world cup single handlely?

Point is Kohli is still playing, once his career is over only then people will know where he stands.
Click to expand...

If he turns it around in 2023 - fine. But the record as it stands is that he is a huge choker.
 
Indian batsmen in World Cups and Champions Trophy knockouts

Qualification was at least 150 runs in KO matches of WC and CT vs top 8 teams

I know Kohli is still young but 8 KO matches he played are not a small sample.


RpBRlFn.png
 
Kohli's only fifty in these 8 innings was against his favorite Lanka in CT13
 
I've grown to like Virat Kohli over the years and there is no doubt that he's going to go down in the history books as a great player but seriously, his record in WC KO matches makes him the greatest choker of all-time.

2011 WC quarter-final: 24 (33) - "Kohli has thrown it away totally against the run of play, full toss on the stumps, he threw his bat wildly at it..."

2011 WC semi-final: 9 (21) - "It landed on a length around off and angled away, Virat played a strange shot as if he was surprised by how it seamed away - Wahab hardly gets the ball to bend in - and had a weak waft at it."

2011 WC final: 35 (49) - "Kohli drives and tries to get it back past the bowler, towards long-on, but Dilshan just sticks his right hand up in the air, almost in front of the non-striker's face, and plucks a magnificent catch! Could that be a decisive moment? It could very well be!"

2015 WC semi-final: 1 (13) - "bouncer from Mitch, top-edged and gone - Kohli has cracked! Slow start, quick end for Virat, took on the Johnson short ball and emphatically lost."

2015 WC quarter-final: 3 (8) - "Delivers a fullish length delivery, pitched wide outside off, as Kohli is instinctively drawn into the drive, with the ball catching the outside edge to fly over to the keeper."

2019 WC semi-final: 1 (6) - "Full again, starts on leg stump and swings back in towards middle. Kohli stretches across and plays around his front pad."

An overall average of 12 at an unmentionable strike-rate, that stand in stark contrast to his numbers outside of the World Cup would usually be enough to tell the whole story, but in this case, the manner in which he has been throwing his wicket away and/or fluffing up shots that he would otherwise play perfectly in his sleep is jarring. If we add in the 2017 Champions Trophy final to the conversation, Virat Kohli is undoubtedly the greatest choker we've ever seen in the 50 overs game.
 
kingusama92 said:
:ibutt

I was actually talking about club matches. But yes, WC too.

He's long been criticized for not scoring enough in CL knockout matches.
Click to expand...

He's done ok, Kohli has been a pure tailender in WC knockout matches. Messi has never been that bad (he also won an Olympic for Argentina, whatever's that worth).
 
Yuvraj was a champion player not just with the bat but he also delivered with the ball
 
It's not just these three. Most sensible people would pick several batsmen over Kohli to bat for them in an actual pressure situation in ODI cricket. For example, that innings by Inzamam in 92' and Imran's own innings in the final of the same tournament is better than anything Kohli has done in ODIs thus far. Heck, Mohammad Hafeez has played a better innings in ICC tournaments than Kohli has.
 
Bilal7 said:
It's not just these three. Most sensible people would pick several batsmen over Kohli to bat for them in an actual pressure situation in ODI cricket. For example, that innings by Inzamam in 92' and Imran's own innings in the final of the same tournament is better than anything Kohli has done in ODIs thus far. Heck, Mohammad Hafeez has played a better innings in ICC tournaments than Kohli has.
Click to expand...

u just might lose a few teeth (just joking) by mentioning Haffez and kholi in 1 sentence with former better than later lol ....
 
So Kohli is at the bottom with lowest average but still above Rahul Dravid if we talk about Strike rate... #NotBad
 
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