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Virat Kohli - Countdown to 100 100s

He can get 500 centuries and I would not rate him in my top 10 all time. Pitches are dead, scores are crazy and boundaries are in.
 
ar2020 said:
He can get 500 centuries and I would not rate him in my top 10 all time. Pitches are dead, scores are crazy and boundaries are in.
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Last year was the most bowling friendly test year in decades. And Kohli came out as the best batsman hands down.

Also, i doubt you saw the last Ind-Aus ODI. The pitch was tricky to bat on (no other batsman scored even half as much as Kohli) Its as if he was batting on a different pitch, the commentators were gushing about it too.

Also, there have been plenty of flat pitches throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. I can point out to countless boring run feasts / series during older eras that produced hyper inflated averages of mediocre batsmen.
 
ar2020 said:
He can get 500 centuries and I would not rate him in my top 10 all time. Pitches are dead, scores are crazy and boundaries are in.
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Kohli would be devastated to know that. In fact he’d quit cricket right now if he manages to read your post.
 
Dead Ball said:
Last year was the most bowling friendly test year in decades. And Kohli came out as the best batsman hands down.

Also, i doubt you saw the last Ind-Aus ODI. The pitch was tricky to bat on (no other batsman scored even half as much as Kohli) Its as if he was batting on a different pitch, the commentators were gushing about it too.

Also, there have been plenty of flat pitches throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. I can point out to countless boring run feasts / series during older eras that produced hyper inflated averages of mediocre batsmen.
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Hitman said:
Kohli would be devastated to know that. In fact he’d quit cricket right now if he manages to read your post.
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Maybe I shouldn't have said top 10 but I can easily name 5 ahead of him at the top of my head:

Tendulkar
Lara
Ponting
Bradman
Viv Richards
 
Other than Bradman, Kohli is right up there with best of them. He is the greatest ODI batsman ever. If he scores another 15 test 100s, he will be the greatest batsman.
 
It would be unfair on previous generation players to be compared to Kohli because of the quality of bowling and pitches then. Same way, it would be unfair on Kohli to be compared to those players because he can't play those bowlers or pitches to make it a fair comparison. This is why it is a futile exercise to compare eras. Every cliche is not just a worthless statement.

Fans here comparing eras is like blind men describing an elephant.
 
Lara is not in the same league as Kohli in odis, Viv Richards for all his greatness only scored 11 100s in 189 matches.Sachin was nowhere dependable as this guy. Kohli has taken Batting to a new level of consistency which has never happened in odis.

2018 he proved he is on in his way to becoming one of the greatest in tests too by scoring runs on most bowler friendly pitches.
 
jadaja said:
Lara is not in the same league as Kohli in odis, Viv Richards for all his greatness only scored 11 100s in 189 matches.Sachin was nowhere dependable as this guy. Kohli has taken Batting to a new level of consistency which has never happened in odis.

2018 he proved he is on in his way to becoming one of the greatest in tests too by scoring runs on most bowler friendly pitches.
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In ODI's kohli just needs a great world cup and he legitimately earns the GOAT title, in tests he isn't even in the same region as tendulkar had a horrible 2 years at his end that dragged his 55+ average to 52, kohli at his peak is averaging 52. Tendulkar i think after 55-60 games averaged 60+ in tests. Kohli is good but he shouldn't be in test GOAT conversation.
 
jagatk said:
In ODI's kohli just needs a great world cup and he legitimately earns the GOAT title, in tests he isn't even in the same region as tendulkar had a horrible 2 years at his end that dragged his 55+ average to 52, kohli at his peak is averaging 52. Tendulkar i think after 55-60 games averaged 60+ in tests. Kohli is good but he shouldn't be in test GOAT conversation.
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Kohli's test record has started improving only in last few years.
 
This nonsense Sachin fans put up as if Sachin played on most bowling friendly wickets and dominated bowlers.

Sachin in 24 years scored one away odi hundred in NZ, SA, Australia and England . People have some nerve to compare Sachin to Kohli.He is shattering the record books and made 49 100s by Sachin in 460 matches as irrelvant.

Kohli averaged 133 and scored 1200 plus playing just 14 matches in 2018 with 9 matches in SA and England. How is that for a year.
 
jagatk said:
In ODI's kohli just needs a great world cup and he legitimately earns the GOAT title, in tests he isn't even in the same region as tendulkar had a horrible 2 years at his end that dragged his 55+ average to 52, kohli at his peak is averaging 52. Tendulkar i think after 55-60 games averaged 60+ in tests. Kohli is good but he shouldn't be in test GOAT conversation.
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Kohli after 77 tests - AVG - 54

Tendulkar after 177 tests - AVG 57

Kohli vs Tendulkar will be a debate in tests only once Kohli has managed to keep his standards high for 120-130 odd tests....
 
ar2020 said:
Maybe I shouldn't have said top 10 but I can easily name 5 ahead of him at the top of my head:

Tendulkar
Lara
Ponting
Bradman
Viv Richards
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I think it would be fair to gauge where Virat is in 4-5 years and then compare them to these legends. But he is going through an insane purple patch which is prompting a lot of us to predict that he will surely end up among the batsmen you mentioned once he retires...
 
jagatk said:
In ODI's kohli just needs a great world cup and he legitimately earns the GOAT title, in tests he isn't even in the same region as tendulkar had a horrible 2 years at his end that dragged his 55+ average to 52, kohli at his peak is averaging 52. Tendulkar i think after 55-60 games averaged 60+ in tests. Kohli is good but he shouldn't be in test GOAT conversation.
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Yes he needs to have a good world cup but it is not a must. When did Sachin play on the these sort of bowler friendly pitches in tests .

Test matches are now being played on very bowler friendly wickets all over world except UAE.

After 77 tests Kohli has scored more test 100s than Sachin and is averaging 53 compared to Sachin's 55.

Sachin average got boosted due to playing on so many flat tracks in 1990s.This notion that Sachin was better in tests in also false.

Sachin never had ablity to carry his team on his back in tests.
 
jadaja said:
This nonsense Sachin fans put up as if Sachin played on most bowling friendly wickets and dominated bowlers.

Sachin in 24 years scored one away odi hundred in NZ, SA, Australia and England . People have some nerve to compare Sachin to Kohli.He is shattering the record books and made 49 100s by Sachin in 460 matches as irrelvant.

Kohli averaged 133 and scored 1200 plus playing just 14 matches in 2018 with 9 matches in SA and England. How is that for a year.
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So now we are comparing home and away records in LOI as well? A guy who has a fantastic away record in tests cannot score runs in away ODIs should be more of a statistical anomaly than anything else.
 
Scenes when Kohli retires at his peak on 99 just because he doesn't want to go past Sachin.
 
WengerOut said:
So now we are comparing home and away records in LOI as well? A guy who has a fantastic away record in tests cannot score runs in away ODIs should be more of a statistical anomaly than anything else.
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Statistical anomaly is for an instance happening one or twice. 38 out 49 100s of Sachin have been scored in Asia. Outside Asia rest of are against Nambias and Kenyas.

In tests Sachin never faced Wasim and Waqar in their prime.Nor did he play West Indies with Walsh and Ambrose that much and did well. He averaged under 40 in SA before 2011 and scored his 50th 100 when match was long gone.

Against Mcgrath he only played once in Australia.

Sachin is not even in same ball park as Kohli in Odis. It is ridiculous to compare Sachin who scored 49 100s in 462 mathes with a guy who had already scored 40 100s in less than half matches.
 
jadaja said:
Statistical anomaly is for an instance happening one or twice. 38 out 49 100s of Sachin have been scored in Asia. Outside Asia rest of are against Nambias and Kenyas.

In tests Sachin never faced Wasim and Waqar in their prime.Nor did he play West Indies with Walsh and Ambrose that much and did well. He averaged under 40 in SA before 2011 and scored his 50th 100 when match was long gone.

Against Mcgrath he only played once in Australia.

Sachin is not even in same ball park as Kohli in Odis. It is ridiculous to compare Sachin who scored 49 100s in 462 mathes with a guy who had already scored 40 100s in less than half matches.
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Your definition of statistical anomaly is way off the mark. And yes he has faced the Ws in their prime. What is with you nitpicking bowlers. Asian batsmen playing in SENA is more about adapting to conditions than bowlers. Bowlers generally are much potent in their home conditions. There were good bowlers bowling under their home conditions before Mcgrath. He had a good series in 1999 as well. Nobody came close from Asia in SA conditions in Donald era. It is more difficult to adapt to SENA from Asia than other way round. I am not sure why you ignore SA 2010. It had peak Steyn and Morkel. He has great record in NZ and Eng as well.


Viv Richards never faced his own bowlers. Ricky Ponting same. Kohli failed against peak Anderson and Cummins. See what you can achieve if you can nitpick criteria that suits your agenda.


As far as ODI exploits away of Sachin that you are scuffing at when in fact he has a great away test record , it is akin to saying "He can run but he can't walk". Kohli is comparable to sachin in ODIs. But in tests, not in the same region.
 
WengerOut said:
Your definition of statistical anomaly is way off the mark. And yes he has faced the Ws in their prime. What is with you nitpicking bowlers. Asian batsmen playing in SENA is more about adapting to conditions than bowlers. Bowlers generally are much potent in their home conditions. There were good bowlers bowling under their home conditions before Mcgrath. He had a good series in 1999 as well. Nobody came close from Asia in SA conditions in Donald era. It is more difficult to adapt to SENA from Asia than other way round. I am not sure why you ignore SA 2010. It had peak Steyn and Morkel. He has great record in NZ and Eng as well.


Viv Richards never faced his own bowlers. Ricky Ponting same. Kohli failed against peak Anderson and Cummins. See what you can achieve if you can nitpick criteria that suits your agenda.


As far as ODI exploits away of Sachin that you are scuffing at when in fact he has a great away test record , it is akin to saying "He can run but he can't walk". Kohli is comparable to sachin in ODIs. But in tests, not in the same region.
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I am not ignoring 2010 SA, I told before 2010 Series in SA he was averaging under 40 in SA.

Kohli is no way inferior to Sachin in tests after 77 tests and he is so far superior to Sachin in odis it is not even a comparision.

So how does Sachin become better than Kohli.
 
jadaja said:
I am not ignoring 2010 SA, I told before 2010 Series in SA he was averaging under 40 in SA.

Kohli is no way inferior to Sachin in tests after 77 tests and he is so far superior to Sachin in odis it is not even a comparision.

So how does Sachin become better than Kohli.
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You are confusing ODIs and tests. Sachin was averaging 57 after 177 tests with an away average of more than 50 ( among the only 2 who averaged more than 50 away from Asia). He had a pretty mediocre decline towards the end. Even after that his average is equal to Kohli who is clearly at his peak and is showing signs of less intensity. So in tests, it is no comparison ( atleast right now)

In ODIs, they are comparable. But just to confirm it, Kohli needs a solid WC. He is clearly behind Sachin in WC exploits.

Just for the record, I am a fan of both players. But you just can't scoff at a player who performed at the elitist level for 200 tests just to glorify another, albeit great in his own right, who has only played a third of former.
 
WengerOut said:
So, the opinion that somebody declining from his lofty standards is equal to the opinion that the same guy is not worth rating? :babar
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I thought it was pretty strange to start talking about his decline because he didn't score in two games.... I don't think there's any question of a decline right now. He is at his peak.
 
Abdullah719 said:
I thought it was pretty strange to start talking about his decline because he didn't score in two games.... I don't think there's any question of a decline right now. He is at his peak.
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At the risk of sounding very pedantic, he did not say "I don't rate Kohli" . He simply said "Kohli is declining . Both are different. Just leave it, it was all in jest :-)
 
Abdullah719 said:
You mean it was a troll thread? :srt
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More of a reverse jinxing thread just to pacify his own mind. On a serious note, i do think Kohli has lost some of the intensity or concentration or something since the England tour though. He is getting out at the wrong time, not finishing innings, or getting dismissed the same way in multiple matches etc.
 
WengerOut said:
You are confusing ODIs and tests. Sachin was averaging 57 after 177 tests with an away average of more than 50 ( among the only 2 who averaged more than 50 away from Asia). He had a pretty mediocre decline towards the end. Even after that his average is equal to Kohli who is clearly at his peak and is showing signs of less intensity. So in tests, it is no comparison ( atleast right now)

In ODIs, they are comparable. But just to confirm it, Kohli needs a solid WC. He is clearly behind Sachin in WC exploits.

Just for the record, I am a fan of both players. But you just can't scoff at a player who performed at the elitist level for 200 tests just to glorify another, albeit great in his own right, who has only played a third of former.
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I am not scoffing at Sachin but his record is built on longetivity rather than excellence. I would rate Kohli better than Sachin.
 
WengerOut said:
More of a reverse jinxing thread just to pacify his own mind. On a serious note, i do think Kohli has lost some of the intensity or concentration or something since the England tour though. He is getting out at the wrong time, not finishing innings, or getting dismissed the same way in multiple matches etc.
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Maybe he's just taking it a little easy until the World Cup. It's not humanly possible to be 'in the zone' all the time.
 
jadaja said:
I am not scoffing at Sachin but his record is built on longetivity rather than excellence. I would rate Kohli better than Sachin.
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You can say the number of runs is due to longevity. But you can't say the rate of scoring those runs is due to longevity. That is elite level consistency and performance for a very long time. You can rate Kohli though, your opinion.
 
WengerOut said:
You can say the number of runs is due to longevity. But you can't say the rate of scoring those runs is due to longevity. That is elite level consistency and performance for a very long time. You can rate Kohli though, your opinion.
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He has played 200 tests and 463 odis. So he sure will have stats. Give me one dominant series Sachin had where he was best batsman from both sides away from home like Kohli was in SA and England.
 
jadaja said:
he has played 200 tests and 463 odis. So he sure will have stats. Give me one dominant series sachin had where he was best batsman from both sides away from home like kohli was in sa and england.
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wc 2003.
 
jadaja said:
He has played 200 tests and 463 odis. So he sure will have stats. Give me one dominant series Sachin had where he was best batsman from both sides away from home like Kohli was in SA and England.
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What a flawed logic!!. Just because the opposition batsmen did not perform, Kohli is better? You can only look at the players performance. Sachin performed in SENA series where India drew and won in Eng (2002 and 2007). He performed in SA 2010 when India drew. He performed in NZ when India won. Give me one series away where Kohli helped to win. You won't have any.

Infact he has failed against the best 3 bowling attacks at home even, let alone away. Eng 2012, Aus 2017, SA 2015.

The above facts i put were just to prove the flawed logic that you put forward. A player can only be rated by his own performance not by opposition batsmen or the eventual result. It is a team game after all. You need other players to do their part also.
 
jadaja said:
He has played 200 tests and 463 odis. So he sure will have stats. Give me one dominant series Sachin had where he was best batsman from both sides away from home like Kohli was in SA and England.
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Kohli has a better bowling attack in his team by a margin. There are many series that he dominated but opposition batsmen plundered the Indian trundlers of his time. So i don't think that's a fair comparison.
 
Having said that - given a choice, i would take Kohli of 2010's over 90's Tendulkar in both formats.
 
Even though Kohli keeps saying century count as just a number, we know this is not a trivial achievement.
Scoring 100 at will requires fool-proof game, concentration, fitness level, motivation.
 
WengerOut said:
What a flawed logic!!. Just because the opposition batsmen did not perform, Kohli is better? You can only look at the players performance. Sachin performed in SENA series where India drew and won in Eng (2002 and 2007). He performed in SA 2010 when India drew. He performed in NZ when India won. Give me one series away where Kohli helped to win. You won't have any.

Infact he has failed against the best 3 bowling attacks at home even, let alone away. Eng 2012, Aus 2017, SA 2015.

The above facts i put were just to prove the flawed logic that you put forward. A player can only be rated by his own performance not by opposition batsmen or the eventual result. It is a team game after all. You need other players to do their part also.
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What did Sachin do in 2002 and 2007 in England when they had weakest bowling lineups. Ian Chappell wrote his infamous article asking him to retire after 2007 when Sachin was having hard time to score on fairly flat wickets.

Sachin was never dominant at home either, he never reach 500 runs in series in his whole career.You are taking without any logic any batsman can have bad series.Other than Bradman every batsman has/will in future will have bad series.Kohli had bad series at home in 2017 Australia.

What they do when in form is the question, Kohli when in form will carry his team for whole series. Sachin never could do that in his whole career.

2015 SA was low scoring series nobody scored any runs there.

Sachin played as part of the strongest batting lineup in history of game for last 15 years of his career.
 
jadaja said:
What did Sachin do in 2002 and 2007 in England when they had weakest bowling lineups. Ian Chappell wrote his infamous article asking him to retire after 2007 when Sachin was having hard time to score on fairly flat wickets.

Sachin was never dominant at home either, he never reach 500 runs in series in his whole career.You are taking without any logic any batsman can have bad series.Other than Bradman every batsman has/will in future will have bad series.Kohli had bad series at home in 2017 Australia.

What they do when in form is the question, Kohli when in form will carry his team for whole series. Sachin never could do that in his whole career.

2015 SA was low scoring series nobody scored any runs there.

Sachin played as part of the strongest batting lineup in history of game for last 15 years of his career.
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According to you , Sachin was never dominant at home or away but still he has better record than Kohli. Bravo !!!

What did Sachin do in 2002 and 2007 in England when they had weakest bowling lineups. Ian Chappell wrote his infamous article asking him to retire after 2007 when Sachin was having hard time to score on fairly flat wickets.
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You know , simply splattering the phrases like 'flat wickets` and 'dominant` does not make it a fact. And the fact that you resorted to those intangibles proves that you dont have anything meaningful to argue. First it was about the quality of opposition batsmen , now it is a random figure of 500.

Look at his record in the 1990, 1996 and 2002 series in England. Look at his record in the Aus series in 1998, 2008 and 2010. I know you deep dived into statistics and zeroed in on the figure of 500 . What you mentioned was the number of matches played in those series.Sachin had a tremendous 1996 series in Eng better than Kohli in 2018. He only played 3 matches while Kohli played 5. Similarly in 1993 against Eng in india. He scored 493 runs in 4 test series in Australia when india actually competed ( not for moral victories ). It is a fact that he played mostly in 3 test series. Only in the latter part of his career did he play 4 test series. I believe he has not played 5 test series. Even in those series his rate of scoring was far better than Kohli.

Now that you have brought bowlers quality even after my earlier explanation , lets do this. Kohli scored all those 500 runs against an ageing England bowling. He was still dancing to Anderson and was lucky more often than not. He was rubbish against Aus in 2017 and pretty average in 2018-19. Against SA he failed dismally for the first 3 tests on spinning wickets. On the flatter Delhi pitch in a dead rubber match , he scored and made his stats look somewhat ok. His whole career highlight will project 3 series. He failed in 2012 against high quality Eng spinners.

2013-14 against Aus - Highway road pitches.
2016-2017 against Eng - Most mediocre england bowlers to visit India ( I mean Adil Rashid and Moeen in India !!! )
2018 against Eng - I will give credit for this but it was not peak Anderson or Broad . He still was having problems.

And you dodged WC stats. Sachin scored

1996 - 523 runs ( top scorer at age 22 )
1999 - 253 at an Avg 42 ( Good but below his lofty standards . Missed some matches too )
2003 - Do i want to explain more
2011 - I mean really !!!

So he dominated WC at a young age , during his peak years and during his twilight years as well. Kohli is yet to have a meaningful WC let alone dominating.


PS: I have already mentioned that you can rate Kohli more . The fact that you have to belittle other player shows that you dont have valid arguments. For the umpteenth time , they are comparable in ODIs . But if you are being honest to yourself , you will admit that he needs a good WC. Longevity is not a thing you can laugh at.
 
This is how it feels like being [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] and others while encountering Kohli worshippers :kakmal
 
The moment you need to put on player down to elevate the other, you know kuch garbar hain. BTW, Kohli is my hero in current day cricket.
 
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