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Virat Kohli suffers first series whitewash as captain as New Zealand seal 7-wicket win in 2nd Test

HydratedTurnip said:
Mate, Yadav is not rattling anyone...Indians claim their new found bowling prowess and yet have someone like a Yadav as a 4th choice seamer...doesn't add up!
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Bhuvneshwar would have been deadly on this pitch.

For some reason, indian selectors have a vendetta against him
 
Not watching the match but 'Someone seemed to have called "two, two" from the Indian camp as those runs were taken from Latham. Richard Kettleborough not happy with it. He immediately started wagging his finger to warn India' - cricinfo

What is this about? :inti
 
tyron_woodley said:
the same yadav will rattle australia and all Sena countries in India. Yadav is a weird one.
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But how does he do that? Someone mentioned reverse swing. But is reverse swing at 137Ks that difficult to handle?
I reckon he gets a truckload of cheap wickets with tailenders trying to slog him
 
Ashraful_Rox said:
Not watching the match but 'Someone seemed to have called "two, two" from the Indian camp as those runs were taken from Latham. Richard Kettleborough not happy with it. He immediately started wagging his finger to warn India' - cricinfo

What is this about? :inti
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Yes commies said that as well and Shaw was being showed than. So maybe when NZ batsmen were running he said two two
 
NZ is one weird team. They would lose when you expect them to win and win when you expect them to lose. Much like expect the unexpected.
 
HydratedTurnip said:
But how does he do that? Someone mentioned reverse swing. But is reverse swing at 137Ks that difficult to handle?
I reckon he gets a truckload of cheap wickets with tailenders trying to slog him
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No, he takes crucial top order wickets in India.

Asian fans have a misconception that if you bowl well with reverse in subcontinent that you will be an bsolutely invincible superman in sena.

Mohammad abbas bowled better in UAE then he did in aus and south Africa.

Some seamers are better with reverse than conventional
 
minamino said:
The only teams he can rattle in India are WI, Bangladesh and SL. He can't rattle SENA countries.
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nah he will rattle anyone in India. He is very good in Asian conditions. You will see when England gets brown washed next time they tour
 
If NZ wins this commies have said they would have beaten no 1 team twice in 6 cricketing days of two tests conbined
 
Ashraful_Rox said:
Not watching the match but 'Someone seemed to have called "two, two" from the Indian camp as those runs were taken from Latham. Richard Kettleborough not happy with it. He immediately started wagging his finger to warn India' - cricinfo

What is this about? :inti
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An old bluffing technique, where fielders try to confuse runners (both batsmen) when there is fraction run possible - that's one thinks 2/3 other thinks 1/2. Against simpleton teams this actually works sometimes.

We are watching cricket in a gentleman era hence Umpire, Match Referee needs to come in to the game for every issues, otherwise these are small things that mature people in middle can solve within themselves. Day by day, we are heading to a situation where umpires might warn: ".... you can't f*rt loudly, it's disturbing for the concentration.... smells bad as well, and it will contribute to global warming ...."
 
MMHS said:
An old bluffing technique, where fielders try to confuse runners (both batsmen) when there is fraction run possible - that's one thinks 2/3 other thinks 1/2. Against simpleton teams this actually works sometimes.

We are watching cricket in a gentleman era hence Umpire, Match Referee needs to come in to the game for every issues, otherwise these are small things that mature people in middle can solve within themselves. Day by day, we are heading to a situation where umpires might warn: ".... you can't f*rt loudly, it's disturbing for the concentration.... smells bad as well, and it will contribute to global warming ...."
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Shaw should be penalized for that especially when you have players getting banned for celebrations like Rabada.
 
Why didn't nz give england these pitches when they toured? Eng played on flat pancakes. You have to feel sorry for India. Whenever they tour sena, they always get the toughest pitches to bat on
 
sindhiboy said:
Why didn't nz give england these pitches when they toured? Eng played on flat pancakes. You have to feel sorry for India. Whenever they tour sena, they always get the toughest pitches to bat on
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Every Asian team gets the same wicket in NZ. Stop crying. People were mocking me on Day 1 of this Test when I said Babar scored a 90* on a similar pitch in Hamilton and now look at them, India got out for 100 odd runs
 
MMHS said:
An old bluffing technique, where fielders try to confuse runners (both batsmen) when there is fraction run possible - that's one thinks 2/3 other thinks 1/2. Against simpleton teams this actually works sometimes.

We are watching cricket in a gentleman era hence Umpire, Match Referee needs to come in to the game for every issues, otherwise these are small things that mature people in middle can solve within themselves. Day by day, we are heading to a situation where umpires might warn: ".... you can't f*rt loudly, it's disturbing for the concentration.... smells bad as well, and it will contribute to global warming ...."
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Salam Big Boss brother :imran hope you are well. Watched the highlights and Kohli's behavior is getting worse it seems and now this. Ver poor :facepalm:
 
sindhiboy said:
Why didn't nz give england these pitches when they toured? Eng played on flat pancakes. You have to feel sorry for India. Whenever they tour sena, they always get the toughest pitches to bat on
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Pakistan as well, especially in New Zealand. The kiwis know man, they don’t waste time on Asians and bowling them out cheaply
 
sindhiboy said:
No, he takes crucial top order wickets in India.

Asian fans have a misconception that if you bowl well with reverse in subcontinent that you will be an bsolutely invincible superman in sena.

Mohammad abbas bowled better in UAE then he did in aus and south Africa.

Some seamers are better with reverse than conventional
Click to expand...

Yeah checked his stats he clearly does! Total mystery to me how he would do it. At least 3 balls every over are down the leg and 1 out of the other 3 is short & wide..and all balls have scrambled seam presentation, with just medium pace.

I am watching this match live and yadav's overs are worse than what a Rubel hussain would bowl
 
Pant should have caught the inside edge of Blundell at this level
 
sindhiboy said:
Why didn't nz give england these pitches when they toured? Eng played on flat pancakes. You have to feel sorry for India. Whenever they tour sena, they always get the toughest pitches to bat on
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I wonder whether there’s a little bit of settling of scores going on.

If you recall, five years ago when India evaded giving Cricket South Africa acceptance of the tour program (to punish them for making Haroon Lorgat CEO by cancelling the Cape Town Test and causing economic disaster) they had double-booked themselves with New Zealand Cricket to give themselves a pretext.

New Zealand Cricket was mortified at being put in that position, and relations between the boards of South Africa and New Zealand have never really recovered

And ever since there have been mutterings that whenever India play a Test tour in NZ they should expect green wickets.
.
 
India bowled poorly here - too short, too wide. They'll lose this game if Kiwis can avoid 3/4 down by lunch. Poms were defending 124 at Leeds, 1981 and Bob Willis was struggling that time with no balls.

So, as I write from Brearley's "Art of Captaincy" - ..... Bob was struggling for footing, lost confidence and he was hiding for conceding runs. When we started to defend an hour before lunch, I called him a side and said - "don't bother for No balls or boundaries, we are not going to defend it by chocking Aussies. Go absolute flat out, make them play every ball and make them feel for every moment - I'll do the worrying for your No balls & loose boundaries". Then, he set 5 slips, 2 gullies, one short cover and a short leg ..... Willis took 8/43.

Kohli needs to talk to his bowlers here - keep 3rd men, open, no one in front of batsman and pitch every thing on driving length, within sticks to force Kiwis play at it and play on front foot. Doesn't matter if they lose it before Tea or after Tea - it's only Day 3.
 
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HydratedTurnip said:
Yeah checked his stats he clearly does! Total mystery to me how he would do it. At least 3 balls every over are down the leg and 1 out of the other 3 is short & wide..and all balls have scrambled seam presentation, with just medium pace.

I am watching this match live and yadav's overs are worse than what a Rubel hussain would bowl
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Oh please averaging 76.77, no one can come close when it comes to bowling trash ::bhajji
 
NZ just have to see off max one more over of Bumrah...use all their 9 lives if they have to...and then it'll get several folds easier to bat with Jadeja or Yadav to replace him
 
minamino said:
The only teams he can rattle in India are WI, Bangladesh and SL. He can't rattle SENA countries.
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He has done well against England and Aus in India.

Dunno averages but impactful performances.

HydratedTurnip said:
But how does he do that? Someone mentioned reverse swing. But is reverse swing at 137Ks that difficult to handle?
I reckon he gets a truckload of cheap wickets with tailenders trying to slog him
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SG ball and reverse swing.
 
Ashraful_Rox said:
Salam Big Boss brother :imran hope you are well. Watched the highlights and Kohli's behavior is getting worse it seems and now this. Ver poor :facepalm:
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He is feeling the pressure of losing this game/series - PP is a bit different place, so Indians might not admit it here .... but reality is, Kohli's much vaunted Indian side is going to lose 8 of the 10 Tests in ENG, NZ, SAF - one series win in AUS isn't enough to balance it, that too AUS without the convicts. Kohli himself knows that, and he'll hear it going back home.

But, his bigger problem is, in this series, individually he has been pathetic. He didn't score much in 2014 ENG tour, but it took some real good ones o get him out ... this series, he has gifted 3 of the 4 dismissals in match defining situation. Outcome of his frustration & anger is expected to be ugly, because he sets very high standards for himself.
 
sindhiboy said:
Why didn't nz give england these pitches when they toured? Eng played on flat pancakes. You have to feel sorry for India. Whenever they tour sena, they always get the toughest pitches to bat on
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Not sure the BCCI will be winning awards for being so hard done by any time soon.
 
Lallus like Shaw and Pant are the reason why India lost this series. India is busy in overrating them rather than giving chances to genuine FC players.
 
Clearly the Indians felt they just had to turn up to win. If you look deeply, its been a disastrous tour, they won the T20 series but the vast majority of those games were super close which went to the death, looks like they will be whitewashed in the ODI and now the test series.
 
India will be whitewashed for the 2nd time after being no.1 in test cricket. First one was in 2011 against England (0-4) and now against NZ (0-2).
 
Glad to see India lose. But this is bad sign for Pakistan - if NZ can demolish India like this, my hopes of Pakistan getting at least 1 Test win in NZ later this year have diminished. Only hope is if Babar scores big and Shaheen/Abbas take tons of wickets.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Glad to see India lose. But this is bad sign for Pakistan - if NZ can demolish India like this, my hopes of Pakistan getting at least 1 Test win in NZ later this year have diminished. Only hope is if Babar scores big and Shaheen/Abbas take tons of wickets.
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Pakistan won't win a match in NZ, maybe they can draw one, if the wicket flattens out, like Sri Lanka did in NZ in 2018.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Glad to see India lose. But this is bad sign for Pakistan - if NZ can demolish India like this, my hopes of Pakistan getting at least 1 Test win in NZ later this year have diminished. Only hope is if Babar scores big and Shaheen/Abbas take tons of wickets.
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Do you have any other good batsmen other than Babar? If you have a few and if your captain can win some crucial tosses, then you can win atleast one test in Newzealand.
 
achha. it happens. If india can regroup and get some early wickets. It's game on. Poor batting put india in this situation not the bowling. missing ishant was huge. if ishant played I don't think the n.z openers would have survived the first 10 overs.

yadav is more suited to Asian conditions. He doesn't adapt well.
 
Dingolfy said:
Do you have any other good batsmen other than Babar? If you have a few and if your captain can win some crucial tosses, then you can win atleast one test in Newzealand.
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Imam is pretty good but that's it. Shafiq only scores when the match is already lost so yeah Babar's the only one.
 
minamino said:
Lallus like Shaw and Pant are the reason why India lost this series. India is busy in overrating them rather than giving chances to genuine FC players.
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i agree. pant and Shaw, both pipsqueaks need to mature and improve their temperament. Back to the drawing board. They are clearly talented but they need more time to develop.

Gill is ready. Panchal is class but he won't get a chance because he isn't popular enough
 
Dingolfy said:
Do you have any other good batsmen other than Babar? If you have a few and if your captain can win some crucial tosses, then you can win atleast one test in Newzealand.
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The batters besides babar are beyond garbage. Especially on these pitches.

Asad and especially azhar are past their prime and should retire soon
 
MMHS said:
He is feeling the pressure of losing this game/series - PP is a bit different place, so Indians might not admit it here .... but reality is, Kohli's much vaunted Indian side is going to lose 8 of the 10 Tests in ENG, NZ, SAF - one series win in AUS isn't enough to balance it, that too AUS without the convicts. Kohli himself knows that, and he'll hear it going back home.

But, his bigger problem is, in this series, individually he has been pathetic. He didn't score much in 2014 ENG tour, but it took some real good ones o get him out ... this series, he has gifted 3 of the 4 dismissals in match defining situation. Outcome of his frustration & anger is expected to be ugly, because he sets very high standards for himself.
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Actually, I knew something was wrong with Indian batting when even our trundlers manage to restrict India to less than 350 on 2nd test. Beside Virat everyone else was struggling.
 
sindhiboy said:
Why didn't nz give england these pitches when they toured? Eng played on flat pancakes. You have to feel sorry for India. Whenever they tour sena, they always get the toughest pitches to bat on
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Nothing to be sorry for. Newzealand can prepare pitches to suit their team. Every team should be. That’s the challenge. If you are a champion team, you should be able to play well all conditions. If every pitch is the same, then it will be very boring.
 
I don't know why India doesn't select Panchal? Do they want him to play for India A for his life? What a waste of talent.
 
sindhiboy said:
The batters besides babar are beyond garbage. Especially on these pitches.

Asad and especially azhar are past their prime and should retire soon
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I think Abid Ali, Shan Masood, and Mohammad Rizwan can be pretty good.
 
tyron_woodley said:
i agree. pant and Shaw, both pipsqueaks need to mature and improve their temperament. Back to the drawing board. They are clearly talented but they need more time to develop.

Gill is ready. Panchal is class but he won't get a chance because he isn't popular enough
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How can you say Gill is ready? Based on his A-tour performance? Remember, Vihari scored a century in the warmup game too. Shaw is new and TM might have asked to go aggressive. When expereinced players like Kohli and Rahane falter, you can’t really blame kids like Shaw. To me, he improved his game much better than the first test where he struggled with his foot movement.
 
Dingolfy said:
Nothing to be sorry for. Newzealand can prepare pitches to suit their team. Every team should be. That’s the challenge. If you are a champion team, you should be able to play well all conditions. If every pitch is the same, then it will be very boring.
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this. India needs to apply themselves better. Adapt. They did so well vs Aussie bowlers on bouncer wickets.Strange how they struggled in n.z. Was winning the toss such a huge advantage here? 1st test yes but the second seemed inconsequential.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
I think Abid Ali, Shan Masood, and Mohammad Rizwan can be pretty good.
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Shan Masood is the only one out of the 3 who has a technique to survive in SENA

Dont know how Rizwan somehow ends up in everyone’s ATG list for everything
 
MMHS said:
An old bluffing technique, where fielders try to confuse runners (both batsmen) when there is fraction run possible - that's one thinks 2/3 other thinks 1/2. Against simpleton teams this actually works sometimes.

We are watching cricket in a gentleman era hence Umpire, Match Referee needs to come in to the game for every issues, otherwise these are small things that mature people in middle can solve within themselves. Day by day, we are heading to a situation where umpires might warn: ".... you can't f*rt loudly, it's disturbing for the concentration.... smells bad as well, and it will contribute to global warming ...."
Click to expand...
Its not like we used to win buckets of matches in SENA. We had way more embarrassing failures under Ganguly ( who had better batsmen but crappy bowlers) and Dhoni.
Virat has the best bowlers we ever had but batsmen are mediocre against swing . But I believe that’s a global phenomenon due to advent of T20.
 
Rana said:
Shan Masood is the only one out of the 3 who has a technique to survive in SENA

Dont know how Rizwan somehow ends up in everyone’s ATG list for everything
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He's scored domestic runs for years, and played well in Aus. Since then he's come in to bat mostly when Pakistan had a large total and he was looking to get some quick runs.
 
tyron_woodley said:
this. India needs to apply themselves better. Adapt. They did so well vs Aussie bowlers on bouncer wickets.Strange how they struggled in n.z. Was winning the toss such a huge advantage here? 1st test yes but the second seemed inconsequential.
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Our batsmen always scored well in Australia. It was our bowlers who couldn’t take 20 wickets on those pitches. Last time we got lucky with toss and our bowlers bowled brilliantly.
 
minamino said:
Abid Ali will flop in NZ. That's a given.
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How Pakistan performs in New Zealand depends upon how they prepare.

They should ideally play a couple of matches against Pakistan A in Australia and stay there to acclimatise for a fortnight before getting to NZ. They don’t need to be in a major city: they could go to any medium-sized town like Coffs Harbour or Port Macquarie and rent the local ground for $1000 per week.

Everywhere in Australia has more bounce than NZ, and will prepare them.

I’d get Pakistan to bowl with the Kookaburra ball but give Pakistan A the Dukes ball to use.

Two weeks of that and the likes of Abid Ali should be just fine.
 
Junaids said:
How Pakistan performs in New Zealand depends upon how they prepare.

They should ideally play a couple of matches against Pakistan A in Australia and stay there to acclimatise for a fortnight before getting to NZ. They don’t need to be in a major city: they could go to any medium-sized town like Coffs Harbour or Port Macquarie and rent the local ground for $1000 per week.

Everywhere in Australia has more bounce than NZ, and will prepare them.

I’d get Pakistan to bowl with the Kookaburra ball but give Pakistan A the Dukes ball to use.

Two weeks of that and the likes of Abid Ali should be just fine.
Click to expand...

I don't think PCB will take that series so seriously that they will be preparing for that weeks before the tour. Saying that, Pakistan A is non-existent and PCB needs to do something about them. They need to start playing against teams like England Lions, SL A, SA A or even Ireland Wolves.
 
Junaids said:
How Pakistan performs in New Zealand depends upon how they prepare.

They should ideally play a couple of matches against Pakistan A in Australia and stay there to acclimatise for a fortnight before getting to NZ. They don’t need to be in a major city: they could go to any medium-sized town like Coffs Harbour or Port Macquarie and rent the local ground for $1000 per week.

Everywhere in Australia has more bounce than NZ, and will prepare them.

I’d get Pakistan to bowl with the Kookaburra ball but give Pakistan A the Dukes ball to use.

Two weeks of that and the likes of Abid Ali should be just fine.
Click to expand...

Before Boult arrived at the scene, Pak would pull a Test victory away here and there. Boult has been the difference since his arrival on the scene. Pakistan cannot face him in full flow
 
Dingolfy said:
Our batsmen always scored well in Australia. It was our bowlers who couldn’t take 20 wickets on those pitches. Last time we got lucky with toss and our bowlers bowled brilliantly.
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still undefeated when he wins tosses. Kohli I mean. We din't just get lucky vs australia. We outplayed them thoroughly. I don't see the same fire to win vs n.z in n.z. It's true. The body language seems too friendly. I need to see more fire in the belly. Where is the urgency ? Need to be far more clinical and ruthless. This touch butt stuff needs to stop. Yes n.z are nice guys but? They are still the enemy. To conquer them them you need be merciless.
 
Rana said:
Before Boult arrived at the scene, Pak would pull a Test victory away here and there. Boult has been the difference since his arrival on the scene. Pakistan cannot face him in full flow
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boult is only a sher khan in England and n.z. He is found wanting everywhere else. He was toothless in India, australia and south africa last time.
 
tyron_woodley said:
still undefeated when he wins tosses. Kohli I mean. We din't just get lucky vs australia. We outplayed them thoroughly. I don't see the same fire to win vs n.z in n.z. It's true. The body language seems too friendly. I need to see more fire in the belly. Where is the urgency ? Need to be far more clinical and ruthless. This touch butt stuff needs to stop. Yes n.z are nice guys but? They are still the enemy. To conquer them them you need be merciless.
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With luck, I meant only the toss. You still have to play your skins out in Australia to win, especially if you are Asian side. Indians played really well and deserved the series win.
And you’re right in this series. I see no fire or passion. Too friendly other than ydays Kohli outburst. And no real application from batsmen. Sad to see someone like Rahane running away from 130 kph thunderbolts like a tailender.
 
tyron_woodley said:
boult is only a sher khan in England and n.z. He is found wanting everywhere else. He was toothless in India, australia and south africa last time.
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For Pakistan in New Zealand he has been the major stumbling block. Pakistan were regularly playing well against the kiwis in New Zealand before he emerged. The other guy is Kane Williamson. He also has been a massive game changer.
 
Junaids said:
How Pakistan performs in New Zealand depends upon how they prepare.

They should ideally play a couple of matches against Pakistan A in Australia and stay there to acclimatise for a fortnight before getting to NZ. They don’t need to be in a major city: they could go to any medium-sized town like Coffs Harbour or Port Macquarie and rent the local ground for $1000 per week.

Everywhere in Australia has more bounce than NZ, and will prepare them.

I’d get Pakistan to bowl with the Kookaburra ball but give Pakistan A the Dukes ball to use.

Two weeks of that and the likes of Abid Ali should be just fine.
Click to expand...

yea australia did all that and toured in u.a.e prior to facing india in 2016 and still lost rofl. India never prepared properly for an overseas win. Maybe india should play some county prior to playing England and practice in australia before commencing a series in n.z.
 
Junaids said:
How Pakistan performs in New Zealand depends upon how they prepare.

They should ideally play a couple of matches against Pakistan A in Australia and stay there to acclimatise for a fortnight before getting to NZ. They don’t need to be in a major city: they could go to any medium-sized town like Coffs Harbour or Port Macquarie and rent the local ground for $1000 per week.

Everywhere in Australia has more bounce than NZ, and will prepare them.

I’d get Pakistan to bowl with the Kookaburra ball but give Pakistan A the Dukes ball to use.

Two weeks of that and the likes of Abid Ali should be just fine.
Click to expand...

yea australia did all that and toured in u.a.e prior to facing india in 2016 and still lost rofl. India never prepared properly for an overseas win. Maybe india should play some county prior to playing England and practice in australia before commencing a series in n.z.
 
I thought Umesh learned something from his last time in SENA. But he is still the same. Should have gone with Saini.
 
Kohli should try bowling Jadeja to see whether he can exploit the footmarks or the variable bounce. Umesh is just leaking runs here.
 
Rana said:
Before Boult arrived at the scene, Pak would pull a Test victory away here and there. Boult has been the difference since his arrival on the scene. Pakistan cannot face him in full flow
Click to expand...
Take a 25 man squad to Australia and play matches against one another. And include Mohammad Amir - his job is to give practice against a Boult-clone.

Pakistan:
Abid / Masood / Azhar / Shafiq / Haris / Babar / Rizwan / Shadab / Faheem / Shaheen / Naseem

Pakistan A:
Sami Aslam / Imran Butt / Zeeshan Malik / Fawad Alam / Haider Ali / Saud Shakeel / Sarfraz Ahmed / Zafar Gohar / Amad Butt / Mohammad Amir / Mohammad Abbas

23 Ehsan Adil
24 Mohammad Hasnain
25 Haris Rauf

It’s the best way to prepare - it’s how Australia prepared for The Ashes six months ago.
 
I predicted that Kiwis could chase anything 200 easily here. And they’re exactly doing that here now. Shows how poorly India batted yday and today.
 
sweep_shot said:
Expected better from Indian pacers. 4th innings bowling has been disappointing.
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Bumrah bowled some unplayable deliveries but Kiwis played him well. And the rest have been mediocre. But then, I don’t blame them much with the mediocre score to defend.
 
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