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Virat Kohli vs Kane Williamson vs Joe Root vs Steven Smith: Who would you pick in your team?

Slog said:
Bangladesh is not a major series. Don't care about Bangladesh regardless of who the batsman is
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You don't care doesn't mean they aren't important.. They just drew series against two major Cricket teams meaning they aren't slouch in their own backyard.
 
Chrish said:
You don't care doesn't mean they aren't important.. They just drew series against tow major Cricket temas meaning they aren't slouch in their own backyard.
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We both know where Bangladesh stand and how important they are taken. You are being petty here.

Yes this series is huge and he has failed unlike last tour when Steyn was fit and #1, Philander was brilliant and Mirkel was very good
 
Slog said:
We both know where Bangladesh stand and how important they are taken. You are being petty here.

Yes this series is huge and he has failed unlike last tour when Steyn was fit and #1, Philander was brilliant and Mirkel was very good
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Seems like you don't if you still think they are the same team who were getting carted left and right for fun like a decade ago. Beating Bangladesh is a challenge for every non-asian team ATM.

And Smith still has an inning left to get things straight (or may be 3 innings). I will reserve my judgement until the series is over for him.
 
Chrish said:
Seems like you don't if you still think they are the same team who were getting carted left and right for fun like a decade ago. Beating Bangladesh is a challenge for every non-asian team ATM.

And Smith still has an inning left to get things straight (or may be 3 innings). I will reserve my judgement until the series is over for him.
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This series is done for him unless he plays an ATG knock.

You can nitpick a pointless Bangladesh series but no one else will hold it against Smith and Smith doesn't care either and you know that. Reason is that it's a two match tour not given much attention because of the team lacking pedigree and also there being no need for Smith to prove his spin playing credentials. Similarly Kohli wouldn't care about a failed series at home because we know he does well there generally. However he does Care about his current record in England.

And if we are being petty to the extreme this will only be Smiths second failed series since Nov 2013 I believe. Kohli on the other hand has failed in SIX series in this same time period
 
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Since November 2013 (Smith's home series return)

Smith has had ONE series where he has averaged below 40 (Bangladesh away 2017). Two if you include this current SA tour

Kohli has had SIX (West Indies home Nov 2013, England away 2014, Bangladesh away 2015, SL away 2015, South Africa home 2015, Australia home 2017)

So [MENTION=138493]Chrish[/MENTION] - even if we count Bangladesh, Smith has had much less poor series

Kohli may overtake Smith in the future but right now Smith has enough credit in the bank to go through a lean patch of 2,3 poor to mediocre series over the next couple of years and still remain ahead.

You are being hasty to try to anoint Kohli as overtaking Smith based on one failed series in a country which he has already conquered when the opposition had Steyn, Morkel and Philander at their peak
 
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Slog said:
Since November 2013 (Smith's home series return)

Smith has had ONE series where he has averaged below 40 (Bangladesh away 2017). Two if you include this current SA tour

Kohli has had SIX (West Indies home Nov 2013, England away 2014, Bangladesh away 2015, SL away 2015, South Africa home 2015, Australia home 2017)

So [MENTION=138493]Chrish[/MENTION] - even if we count Bangladesh, Smith has had much less poor series

Kohli may overtake Smith in the future but right now Smith has enough credit in the bank to go through a lean patch of 2,3 poor to mediocre series over the next couple of years and still remain ahead.

You are being hasty to try to anoint Kohli as overtaking Smith based on one failed series in a country which he has already conquered when the opposition had Steyn, Morkel and Philander at their peak
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LOL no one is saying that Kohli has or will overtake Smith anytime soon. But if Smith completely fails this series and if Kohli has a great English series then things might look different.

Disagree about Bangladesh being irrelevant but I am not here to change anyone's opinion.
 
As of now, each player has his strengths and weaknesses.

Kohli: Hands down the best in LOI. Not even a competition. Has performed in extremely tough SA conditions which have removed doubt of his ability to handle swing, seam, un-even bounce, etc.
Smith: Has the highest average in Tests, are several questions on his ability to handle genuine swing, seam, in even bounce, is currently struggling in SA in more batting friendly conditions than what Kohli faced. A proven match-winner when under pressure and in big events, such as the WC 15’.
Root: The most consistent player out of all four. Scores in all conditions, has no glaring weaknesses, is excellent in playing an anchor role in all formats. Struggles to convert and make a big score when set. Has no match-winning performance against strong competition or in big events.
Williamson: The player who is most adequate in handling tough conditions. Does not struggle in any format and can score on pace-friendly wickets. Scores at a lower-strike rate than the other three and lacks the intensity that they have in LOI’s.

Speaking on their record up to the present moment, Kohli is the best batsman of the group.
 
Hasan123 said:
When Smith was in good form he was being called a GOAT. When he fails in 1 series , he's called rubbish and ovverated.

He is allowed to have 1 bad series. He did well in 2014 series vs SA.
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Agreed. It was dumb to call him the GOAT before and it is dumb to rate him below Kohli now.
 
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Slog said:
Not really in terms of where his batting stands

The discussion here is as a batsman not a person or leader
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Character does define players stature along with stats, as things are shaping up currently... Looks like Smith's capatincy is on stake now. Not looking good for Bradman :smith

Coach should have taken more blame instead of Captain, as Lehman is going out by next year !
 
WildSwing said:
You say there's an enormous difference between waqar and zaheer but did you fail to notice an even more enormous difference between a batsman averaging just 41 vs a batsman averaging freaking 58?

You come out with million excuses for waqar but did you forget that kohli played his first world cup as a rookie and he's still got 2 more world cups in him. Your so called criteria of "performing when it matters" would also put gambhir over lara, Double check mate
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Missing a world cup at your peak is not an excuse, it is fact. I NEVER said Smith is ahead of Kohli in ODI , i merely said Smith wasn't mediocre in ODI. You are wrong
 
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Bilal7 said:
Agreed. It was dumb to call him the GOAT before and it is dumb to rate him below Kohli now.
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The gap between them wasn't as much as people on this forum made out. If Kohli maintains his form from SA series, he'll surpass Smith.
 
hk031992 said:
Missing a world cup at your peak is not an excuse, it is fact. I NEVER said Smith is ahead of Kohli in ODI , i merely said Smith wasn't mediocre in ODI. You are wrong
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Let me tell you some real facts, a player with an odi average of 42 and a strike rate of 84 is mediocre in today's era.

Here's the performance of odi batters in the last 5 years, just check how many batsmen are above smith

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Let me tell you another fact, smith's away average in odis is 28, that's not mediocre, that's downright pathetic.

Finally let me give one last clue, steve smith has never been ranked above 7 in odis, 7th is his best rank and he's currently ranked 17th, and he's in the prime of his career, if this is his best then yes he's mediocre.
 
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WildSwing said:
Let me tell you some real facts, a player with an odi average of 42 and a strike rate of 84 is mediocre in today's era. You need to get a clue yourself before calling others clueless.

Here's the performance of odi batters in the last 5 years, just check how many batsmen are above smith

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Let me tell you another fact, smith's away average in odis is 28, that's not mediocre, that's downright pathetic.

Finally let me give one last clue, steve smith has never been ranked above 7 in odis, 7th is his best rank and he's currently ranked 17th, and he's in the prime of his career, if this is his best then yes he's mediocre. Don't quote me if you are going to post one line nonsense again, only reply if you have a meaningful reply to my points
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Okay, fair enough. I must admit i do not pay too much attention to numbers and rankings in ODI's. I was judging Smith based on how well he played in the world cup and some other odi tournaments he has played. I think that because he plays for such a strong odi side, and has so many strong batsmen in the team, he doesn't always need to score big. He has performed when it has mattered, and in my opinion, that makes him a very good odi batsman.
 
hk031992 said:
Okay, fair enough. I must admit i do not pay too much attention to numbers and rankings in ODI's. I was judging Smith based on how well he played in the world cup and some other odi tournaments he has played. I think that because he plays for such a strong odi side, and has so many strong batsmen in the team, he doesn't always need to score big. He has performed when it has mattered, and in my opinion, that makes him a very good odi batsman.
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But u can't overlook Australia has one of the best odi bowling attack in the world during 2015 with a rampaging Starc firing all cylinders, that alone cannot be neglected, remember Starc played a much more important role in aussie victory than anyone.
 
hk031992 said:
Okay, fair enough. I must admit i do not pay too much attention to numbers and rankings in ODI's. I was judging Smith based on how well he played in the world cup and some other odi tournaments he has played. I think that because he plays for such a strong odi side, and has so many strong batsmen in the team, he doesn't always need to score big. He has performed when it has mattered, and in my opinion, that makes him a very good odi batsman.
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Smith is nto a very good ODI batsman, he's average. There are well over a dozen batsman in ODIs better than Smith
 
Root can never be as good as Smith or Kohli. These two are ruthless. Root can never play an innings like smith played in 1st test of ashes or kohli played in SA.
He gets out way too early to make an impact on the result.
Even in day night test match in Aus. He had a chance to play a great innings but yet again got out after 50
 
Smith is banned. Root thinks that you're not allowed to score more than 60-70 runs. Williamson barely plays tests. ABD is retired.

There is only one king of kings. :kohli
 
Is it the big 4 or big 2 ?

I think that Root and Williamson can not come close to Kohli and Smith. Right now only Kohli
 
Kohli is in a league of his own. I have accepted this. Easily the best batsmen of this era.
 
I will take Kohli.Smith isn't far behind in tests as well.

Root and Williamson aren't that good as those two but they might well end up as the greatest batsmen for their country as far as the modern era is concerned.
 
I've been calling it the Big 2 for a while.

Kane and Root are not in the same league as the other two.
 
I'm disappointed in Kane Williamson.

He should rate higher than Root especially considering how good he was as a teenager. I'm guessing it has to do with a lack of matches and not being able to milk the good times as much as the others.
 
Smith is a beast hasn't played for about 3 months and still the best Test batsman in the world.
 
Williamson for me has really underachieved in tests. Probably has the best technique to survive difficult batting conditions.
 
Should the fab 4 discussion end ?

Have been following the careers of these people for a while and it is safe to say that Williamson and root are not in the same league as kohli and smith . They are really good players but it would be unfair to compare them 4 across the same benchmark. Right now it’s kohli until Smith comes back and challenges him .
 
Smith cannot challenge Kohli across formats. Kohli is the only king among men, and the greatest batsman of his generation by some distance.

There is no Fab Four since 2016, and Smith fought for a while when he was going through a purple patch in white ball cricket, but he too does not have the class to dominate all formats like Kohli.

Smith, Root and Williamson are very close if you take all formats into consideration. Smith is the best in Tests, but Root is better in ODIs and Williamson is not far behind either.
 
Hasn;t it been already ended?

It is just a marketting gimmick used since 90's maybe earlier. During 90's it used to be Tendulkar vs Mark Waugh or Tendulkar vs Lara or Tendulkar vs Aravinda DeSilva.. Then Tendulkar vs Ponting.

Same ways pundits and media will portray it as Kohli vs others.

But fact is like his predecessor Tendulkar, Kohli is better than his contemporaries by some distance.
 
mkyawar said:
Have been following the careers of these people for a while and it is safe to say that Williamson and root are not in the same league as kohli and smith . They are really good players but it would be unfair to compare them 4 across the same benchmark. Right now it’s kohli until Smith comes back and challenges him .
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Overall, there is no fab 4, 3 or 2... we know who #1 is. :kohli

In Tests however, we do have a Fab 2 and Kohli surpassing Smith was only a matter of how he performs in England. Now, while Kohli leads in this format, Smith too is not far behind. It's a real shame that he won't be playing for a while though.
 
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Wish Williamson played more tests. He is much better than root and better all format cricketer than Smith.
 
Please leave Root out of this - he is a step below the other three.

eg: Kohli has more away centuries than Root has total.
 
Kane Williamson goes past 10,000-run mark in first-class cricket

Kane Williamson, the New Zealand captain, topped 10,000 first-class runs as he brought the curtains down on his Yorkshire stint for the ongoing county season.

Williamson ticked off his latest batting milestone with a composed 51 in Yorkshire's defeat to Somerset. The match was Williamson's 131st in first-class cricket, and he's now reached 10,039 runs at an impressive average of 48.03. Sixty-five of those matches have been Tests, in which he boasts an even better average of 50.35. In the MRF Tyres ICC Test Player Rankings for batsmen, Williamson is placed at No.3 behind only Virat Kohli and Steve Smith.

Williamson played three first-class and 10 Twenty20 matches for Yorkshire but will now leave to rest ahead of a busy international season, including an away tour of the United Arab Emirates to play Pakistan, followed by home series against Sri Lanka, India and Bangladesh. In the three long-form matches, he scored 218 runs at 36.33, while scoring 280 runs in the shortest format at a strike rate of 148.

Following a short break, Williamson will meet new New Zealand coach Gary Stead, and join his teammates for a pre-tour preparation camp in Lincoln between September 26 and 28.

New Zealand's series against Pakistan starts late in October, and will feature three T20 Internationals, three one-day internationals and three Tests.

Yorkshire will have Williamson's compatriot Jeet Raval replace him as the overseas professional, and Williamson is confident that the opener will succeed in his maiden county stint: "It's a newish experience, but with his technique and patience, I certainly hope he does, and expect him to do, a really good job at the top of the order."

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/844084
 
Kohli is in a league of his own .

Smith is the best out of the other 3 and I think he will better than them at the end of his career as well.
 
Kane Williamson once again digging New Zealand out of a hole here.
 
giri26 said:
Kane Williamson once again digging New Zealand out of a hole here.
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In this case he contributed to digging the hole with a slow paced innings. If he gets out without making up for those dot balls this innings will be futile
 
Kane Williamson loses his wicket at a crucial time for New Zealand after a well-made 67. Is this a successful innings, or has Williamson failed in not batting till the end and anchoring the innings?
 
We will how this innings pans out in context once India have had a go. But I thought he was quite good till he got out. Batted the condition; the bowling, the pitch and that start NZ got; almost perfectly.
 
As a Captain+Batsman i will pick Kane any day of the week...
 
Barely performed in the previous matches but still manages to score 60 odd when his team was 15-3.
What a player.
 
Arsal_AK said:
We will how this innings pans out in context once India have had a go. But I thought he was quite good till he got out. Batted the condition; the bowling, the pitch and that start NZ got; almost perfectly.
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Turned out to be a brilliant knock in the end. Bumrah and Bhuvi were really good upfront and he made sure that NZ didn't crumble. And then as I said batted the conditions to perfection.
 
Taking everything into consideration, it is:-

Kohli
Smith/Kane
Root
 
Kane Williamson is an absolute legend in my book, but it's funny how much love there is for Williamson all of a sudden on PP,for a guy whose SR is worse than Babar Azam.
And babar would get pelters for it, despite playing a similar role to KW
 
Abdullah said:
Kane Williamson is an absolute legend in my book, but it's funny how much love there is for Williamson all of a sudden on PP,for a guy whose SR is worse than Babar Azam.
And babar would get pelters for it, despite playing a similar role to KW
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This is so true.
 
KW is superior to Babar, who is not even in the picture, and everyone else mentioned in this thread - he doesn’t bottle it under pressure. SS has the same quality however KW is more pleasing to watch.
 
Vegitto1 said:
KW is superior to Babar, who is not even in the picture, and everyone else mentioned in this thread - he doesn’t bottle it under pressure. SS has the same quality however KW is more pleasing to watch.
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Williamson is definitely more mentally strong at the moment. But hopefully the innings vs NZ, propels Babar to new highs- more meaningful contributions, especially chasing.
 
Out of these four, I pick Steven Smith. He can bowl too and he is a very dynamic cricket batsman.
 
Once Williamson scored those 2 centuries against Pakistan in UAE last year to win the test series from an improbable situation, he positioned himself as numero uno, above Smith in tests. And then this world cup was just a testimony to the fact that he's the very best. Kohli for all his heroics has missed several opportunities to win India some thrilling test matches - Adelaide, 2 in England last year, and now with his embarrassing record in semis, he is way too behind Kane.
 
it still has to be Virat .... All said and done Virat leads Kane by 12 in avg: , 11 in str & 28 in 100s in ODIs which is a huge gap in itself even if Kane is some 1.75 years younger to Virat. If Kane played that 67 in semi so has Virat that 35 in final in 2011 in 2nd inns.Virat has some clutch performances in champions trophy knock outs too. So all in all in ODIs it is still a no contest. In tests it is more or less at the same level . So Virat over Kane.

Smith leads in tests & Kane in ODIs to one another .But Smith leads by a bit more in tests from Kane than what is in ODIs vice versa.So Smith is 2nd.

Kane 3rd

Root 4rth
 
Kohli.

Kohli is a beast.

He will come back stronger.

Mark my words.
 
People are undermining Kohli how quickly time changes he is King for me.
Kohli
Williamson
Smith.
I don't rate root. He is not in this league even Babar at this young age is better
 
Those who don't bring Babar in this discussion will have to eat their words. Babar is arguably the best batsman Pakistan has ever produced. He will be the batsmen in coming years.
 
heddie19 said:
Those who don't bring Babar in this discussion will have to eat their words. Babar is arguably the best batsman Pakistan has ever produced. He will be the batsmen in coming years.
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yeah..definitely ... he can be that batsman of Pakistan what Sachin used to be for India . He is that much talented. Sachin scored 16 100s and avg:ed 55 in tests before 25 years .Babar with only 1 100 and 35 avg: needs to do a lot of catching up to outweigh Sachin.

I think he needs to be made captain of Pakistan team which would do wonders for his confidence .
 
S.Smith is the Goat.Greatest player after Bradman.Another clutch knock in tough conditions.Unlike someone jis se nahi hota chase
 
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