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Virat Kohli vs Kane Williamson vs Joe Root vs Steven Smith: Who would you pick in your team?

Kohli is the worst slogger among them imo,has no idea how to slog at all.Root ,Smith are better in that department.
 
transitional said:
If this was only test match debate, then I will say Root. Kohli had stellar 2016, but he needs to "win" more tests. Yes, he has 100s in RSA, NZ, Aus, but all in losses or draws.
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That's the same for Root. Most of his 100s away from home have come in draws or losses.

Kohli - centuries in wins away from home.
200 vs WI in Antigua

Root - centuries in wins away from home.
182* vs WI in St'George
110 vs SA in J'burg

Smith is the best test player of the three but the worst LOI player.
 
So its been established that all of these guys did not have a purple patch or something but are rather terrific players. All three among the runs all the time. Smith is by far the best Test player, followed by Root, KW and then VK.

As for ODI's, its Virat Kohli all the way followed by Root and then Smith & KW.
 
ExpressPacer said:
So its been established that all of these guys did not have a purple patch or something but are rather terrific players. All three among the runs all the time. Smith is by far the best Test player, followed by Root, KW and then VK.

As for ODI's, its Virat Kohli all the way followed by Root and then Smith & KW.
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Don't put smith and Williamson in the same league in ODIs. Smith is only behind Kohli in ODIs and unlike Kohli he has been an absolute beast in World Cup knockout games
 
aliasad1998 said:
Don't put smith and Williamson in the same league in ODIs. Smith is only behind Kohli in ODIs and unlike Kohli he has been an absolute beast in World Cup knockout games
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True. KW hasn't really proven to be that good in ODI's, which is why he is last in ODI's. However, I'd have Root before Smith. Root is always among the runs. He just had a terrific tour of West Indies and has a lot of hundreds too. But Kohli is easily better than all of them when it comes to LOI's. Lets see who leads the contest in the future.
 
ExpressPacer said:
So its been established that all of these guys did not have a purple patch or something but are rather terrific players. All three among the runs all the time. Smith is by far the best Test player, followed by Root, KW and then VK.

As for ODI's, its Virat Kohli all the way followed by Root and then Smith & KW.
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Nah.

It's Smith and Kohli, the other two have proven to be below those two.
 
HitWicket said:
Bit harsh on Root, think he has a very strong claim at being the 2nd best of the 4 in all 3 formats.
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Smith is far stronger in Tests and I'd take him over Root in ODi's. How is it even debatable who second is?

Only Kohli is ahead and that's because he's T20 GOAT and on his way to being ODI GOAT.
 
Aman said:
Smith is far stronger in Tests and I'd take him over Root in ODi's. How is it even debatable who second is?

Only Kohli is ahead and that's because he's T20 GOAT and on his way to being ODI GOAT.
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Was referring to each individual format on its own. Smith being ahead of Root in ODIs is fairly debatable.
 
Aman said:
Nah.

It's Smith and Kohli, the other two have proven to be below those two.
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I disagree. It's Root for me. Just look at his average. Almost 50. And he's always played clutch knocks, so has Smith but Root has carried his ODI batting unit forward.
 
ExpressPacer said:
I disagree. It's Root for me. Just look at his average. Almost 50. And he's always played clutch knocks, so has Smith but Root has carried his ODI batting unit forward.
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Smith's WC record in the finals trumps anything Root has done in JAMODI's.

I have Kohli ahead because of the skill he has shown in the format and his ability to win games alone.
 
Aman said:
Smith is far stronger in Tests and I'd take him over Root in ODi's. How is it even debatable who second is?

Only Kohli is ahead and that's because he's T20 GOAT and on his way to being ODI GOAT.
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Kohli is T20 GOAT?! LOL. Yeah, he's really good but are you serious?! He just had one good year. He doesn't even have a 100 in T20i's LOL. And the one good year he did have is severely overhyped because of his IPL hundreds. He isn't even Twenty20 or IPL GOAT, let alone T20i GOAT.

God, are you delusional..
 
ExpressPacer said:
Kohli is T20 GOAT?! LOL. Yeah, he's really good but are you serious?! He just had one good year. He doesn't even have a 100 in T20i's LOL. And the one good year he did have is severely overhyped because of his IPL hundreds. He isn't even Twenty20 or IPL GOAT, let alone T20i GOAT.

God, are you delusional..
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Who else is there? Gayle?

Smith and Root's numbers in ODI's are quite similar despite Smith playing a lot of games as a A/R early on in his career.
 
Aman said:
Who else is there? Gayle?

Smith and Root's numbers in ODI's are quite similar despite Smith playing a lot of games as a A/R early on in his career.
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Gayle is leagues, in fact lightyears ahead of him when it comes to Twenty20 and so is Brendon McCullum. As for T20i's, both Gayle and Brendon are still ahead of him. Kohli, as of now, falls in the Finch, Maxwell, etc category. To become a T20i ATG, he really needs a couple of hundreds and lots of sixes, if not anything more.

He is undeniably a future GOAT for ODI's though.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Gayle is leagues, in fact lightyears ahead of him when it comes to Twenty20 and so is Brendon McCullum. As for T20i's, both Gayle and Brendon are still ahead of him. Kohli, as of now, falls in the Finch, Maxwell, etc category. To become a T20i ATG, he really needs a couple of hundreds and lots of sixes, if not anything more.

He is undeniably a future GOAT for ODI's though.
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I wouldn't rate McCullum ahead of him.

If you're including domestic T20's, Gayle is the GOAT.

T20I's, I personally have Kohli ahead of both.
 
In LOIs, Williamson is the weakest of the lot, but it will be interesting to see where each stands across all three formats after 10 years. However, as I said before, there is no point in discussing the credentials of The Big Four on series-by-series basis, because it leads to knee-jerk reactions.

Smith was supposed to be a FTB after he failed on green-tops in the 2015 Ashes, now he is the best in the world by far; Kohli was supposed to be an average Test batsman, but then 2016 happened; Root was supposed to fail outside England, but he scored a high class hundred in South Africa and was England's best batsman in India, and God knows how many runs he would have piled up if he was facing the pies of Moeen, Rashid and Ansari like Kohli, instead of facing Ashwin and Jadeja. His main issue so far has been his conversion rate, but he is good enough to deal with any bowling in any conditions, and he will score a lot of hundreds in the future.

In LOIs, Kohl is a certified ATG, so it will be almost impossible for Smith or Root to catch him, while Smith is a certified ATG in Tests but Kohli and Root will get there in the future as well. As far Smith vs Root in LOIs is concerned, it depends on how Root does in the upcoming Champions Trophy and World Cup at home. If dominates with the bat, he will surpass Smith in LOIs, because he is already well ahead in T20Is.

Williamson has the class to match them in Tests, but in LOIs, he is the second coming of Amla.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Kohli is T20 GOAT?! LOL. Yeah, he's really good but are you serious?! He just had one good year. He doesn't even have a 100 in T20i's LOL. And the one good year he did have is severely overhyped because of his IPL hundreds. He isn't even Twenty20 or IPL GOAT, let alone T20i GOAT.

God, are you delusional..
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One good year? He was man of the tournament in 2014 too (as well as 2016). He's the T20I GOAT.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Kohli is T20 GOAT?! LOL. Yeah, he's really good but are you serious?! He just had one good year. He doesn't even have a 100 in T20i's LOL. And the one good year he did have is severely overhyped because of his IPL hundreds. He isn't even Twenty20 or IPL GOAT, let alone T20i GOAT.

God, are you delusional..
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kohli is a certified goat in t20. but in odi he is quiet overrated. he wasas poor in world cups.
 
None of these guys will come close to Virat in LOI's . Smith second in ODIs and Joe root in T20s .
Smith definitely a notch above the rest in Tests followed by Root/Virat and Williamson in that order .
 
ExpressPacer said:
So its been established that all of these guys did not have a purple patch or something but are rather terrific players. All three among the runs all the time. Smith is by far the best Test player, followed by Root, KW and then VK.

As for ODI's, its Virat Kohli all the way followed by Root and then Smith & KW.
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you are underrating smith in ODIs , yes Root has a better game for the format but at thisp point for any opposition Smith would be a more prized wicket than Root .
 
Smith > Kohli> Root>Kane

As per now, this is the order.Root plays for England and hence he will play lots of tests(he is just 25) and even though his conversion rate is poor, he will end up with 30 hundreds unless he regresses.
 
Ab Fan said:
Smith > Kohli> Root>Kane

As per now, this is the order.Root plays for England and hence he will play lots of tests(he is just 25) and even though his conversion rate is poor, he will end up with 30 hundreds unless he regresses.
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No right now it's

Smith>Root>Kohli=Kane

Kohli has surpassed Kane for me from WI away series to Eng home series but this current poor series along with Kane's return to form means both are equal again for me
 
jusarrived said:
you are underrating smith in ODIs , yes Root has a better game for the format but at thisp point for any opposition Smith would be a more prized wicket than Root .
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True. I can't disagree there. Root is ahead statistically and has some great knocks but Smith would be the more prized wicket. But then again, for ODI's, an even more prized wicket would be Warner even though Smith is better than him as we all know. So you see, I was comparing them on the basis of statistics and clutch knocks.
 
kohli is king of this era. best batsman in the world. root smith and wiliamson are below him but they are on the same level.
 
Still Smith for tests, can't believe how good this guy is, especially around 5 years ago this guy was termed a slogger. Never seen a batsman improve so much.
 
in tests root n smith are top two. Kohli is most susceptible in tests has proven himself on bouncy tracks and turners now but has a poor record on seaming tracks and swinging conditions.
 
Coming in at 3/2 on a tough pitch and playing so freely,root is such high class player

He makes feels that he bats on different pitch altogether
 
Smith, Root and Kohli all three will end up a notch higher than Williamson taking all major yardsticks into consideration.
 
Smith is ahead for now. Root needs to improve his conversion rate. But even in difficult conditions at times he's looked a class apart from his team mates and scores at a good strike rate. He'll come good in this area eventually.
 
Big fan of Williamson, he is a class act. However, I feel in the long run his credentials will suffer as a result of playing for New Zealand. New Zealand have improved considerably in recent years, but is still the weakest team among the ones the other three play for. It is unlikely Williamson will get to play in as many knockout games in big ICC tournaments because of this reason, where one is really able to prove himself as an ATG. Recent example of this was the Champions Trophy, Williamson looked in amazing form but his team failed to progress past the preliminary round, hence, his performances were largely looked over.
 
Williamson just scored two hundreds against SA in last series albeit he was rubbish for a while before that. Kohli was trash last series but prior to that he had two godly home series. Not sure who is better.

Smith > Root >> Kohli = Ken.
 
All four are top tier batsmen, suggesting one is better than the other makes no sense, has anyone watched all innings by all players?.
 
In order:

Kohli - so far ahead of the rest in LOIs, excellent in tests too, looks good against seam and swing too now
Kane - best player of fast bowling in the group, extremely underrated
Root - all condition player but needs to be more consistent
Smith - worst of all against seam and swing and in LOIs, scores majority on pattas
 
Princejain191 said:
In order:
Kohli - so far ahead of the rest in LOIs, excellent in tests too, looks good against seam and swing too now
Kane - best player of fast bowling in the group, extremely underrated
Root - all condition player but needs to be more consistent
Smith - worst of all against seam and swing and in LOIs, scores majority on pattas
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Root is extremely consistent . He hust needs to convert better
Smith is just not in form. And you are feasting on that :kohli :root
 
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I doubt anyone will match the kind of test peak that Smith has in the past few years. But he's going to have the steepest decline of the lot as well, when his technique that relies on hand-eye coordination so much starts giving way.

Overall across formats it's Kolhi and it's not even close at this point.
 
This forum is so fickle. When Smith was in good form he was being called a GOAT. When he fails in 1 series , he's called rubbish and ovverated.

He is allowed to have 1 bad series. He did well in 2014 series vs SA.
 
Hasan123 said:
This forum is so fickle. When Smith was in good form he was being called a GOAT. When he fails in 1 series , he's called rubbish and ovverated.

He is allowed to have 1 bad series. He did well in 2014 series vs SA.
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Tbf it's mostly Indian fans or huge Kohli diehards... Smith hasn't given them any opportunity for almost four years now so now it's time to finally make some posts they haven't had the chance to make :)))
 
Slog said:
Tbf it's mostly Indian fans or huge Kohli diehards... Smith hasn't given them any opportunity for almost four years now so now it's time to finally make some posts they haven't had the chance to make :)))
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Indian fans are the last people on earth who should call him ovverated. He has given them many sleepless nights.
 
And the usual stuff continues here. Since, Smith has already failed in first 5 innings, he should continue failing in three more and gift SA this series.

You can regain your form back after this series, Smith.
 
In all honesty, picking a world XI, you'd have all 4 because they bat in different positions (mainly). Williamson is the only one brave enough to be a consistent number 3, and imo the classiest and grittiest to watch. Root and Kohli and switch between 4 and 5 and both have chickened out of the number 3 position too often. Although Root played at 3 for longer. Smith obviously comes at the end.
 
Steve Smith will remain the best Test batsman out of those 4 until he keeps failing consistently for many more months, which is highly unlikely though.
 
Slog said:
Tbf it's mostly Indian fans or huge Kohli diehards... Smith hasn't given them any opportunity for almost four years now so now it's time to finally make some posts they haven't had the chance to make :)))
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Much like how you Pak fans love bringing up Kohli's record in England like a broken record, which is the only area where you can knock on him :D
 
Slog said:
Tbf it's mostly Indian fans or huge Kohli diehards... Smith hasn't given them any opportunity for almost four years now so now it's time to finally make some posts they haven't had the chance to make :)))
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kohli is bashed non stop on this forum for one single bad series in England 4 years ago
 
Hitman said:
Much like how you Pak fans love bringing up Kohli's record in England like a broken record, which is the only area where you can knock on him :D
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which coincidently was also 4 years ago
 
Smudger said:
Root is extremely consistent . He hust needs to convert better
Smith is just not in form. And you are feasting on that :kohli :root
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I have somehow always had a soft corner for Root. Wrong choice of words, but yes, needs better conversion rate. Only behind Virat in LOIs among the four and looks good against spin, seam and swing but just gets out after the 50s. But he is 27 and he can become a beast.

Nope, said that about Smith when he was scoring runs for fun in Ashes. Extremely over-hyped. Could see how he hasn't changed a bit by how he looked under lights in Adelaide.
 
Smith Vs Kohli - averages

Test: ODI: T20
61.92/53.40 : 41.84/58.10 : 21.55/50.84

Kohli leads Smith easily in overall cricket stats at the moment. Virat might get closer to Smith in Tests, but the gap in ODI's and T20's looks huge.
 
Oligochaetes said:
Smith Vs Kohli - averages

Test: ODI: T20
61.92/53.40 : 41.84/58.10 : 21.55/50.84

Kohli leads Smith easily in overall cricket stats at the moment. Virat might get closer to Smith in Tests, but the gap in ODI's and T20's looks huge.
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In terms of importance weightage of tests is more than ODI and t20s put together
 
Oligochaetes said:
Smith Vs Kohli - averages

Test: ODI: T20
61.92/53.40 : 41.84/58.10 : 21.55/50.84

Kohli leads Smith easily in overall cricket stats at the moment. Virat might get closer to Smith in Tests, but the gap in ODI's and T20's looks huge.
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I would say the importance ratio between Tests, ODI and T20s is something like 60:30:10

So, Smith is still ahead of Kohli for me, just by a whisker. If Kohli has a decent Test series in England (a couple of 100s and averages in 40s at least) he will take over Smith.
 
Sidilicious said:
I would say the importance ratio between Tests, ODI and T20s is something like 60: 30:10

So, Smith is still ahead of Kohli for me, just by a whisker. If Kohli has a decent Test series in England (a couple of 100s and averages in 40s at least) he will take over Smith.
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0.60 x 8.52 : 0.3 x -16.26 : 0.1 x 29.29

+5.11 : -4.87 : -2.92

Kohli is still ahead.... I am poor in Math, am sure my method is wrong.:49: Pls explain your calculations
 
Oligochaetes said:
0.60 x 8.52 : 0.3 x -16.26 : 0.1 x 29.29

+5.11 : -4.87 : -2.92

Kohli is still ahead.... I am poor in Math, am sure my method is wrong.:49: Pls explain your calculations
Click to expand...

Its not an exact science.

For ODIs, even though the Average has a difference of 16, but Smith should get some extra brownie points for his WC performance. Kohli should also get sine brownie points for this T20 WC performances (though not as many as Smith's WC).

Smith has also played some clutch innings in Test Cricket, which Kohli has only recently started to replicate. So Smith should get some extra brownie points for that.


In the end, I still believe Smith is ahead only by a whisker. A couple of good series or good WC and Kohli will overtake Smith. I believe in the long run, Kohli will end up being the better batsman.
 
Sidilicious said:
Its not an exact science.

For ODIs, even though the Average has a difference of 16, but Smith should get some extra brownie points for his WC performance. Kohli should also get sine brownie points for this T20 WC performances (though not as many as Smith's WC).

Smith has also played some clutch innings in Test Cricket, which Kohli has only recently started to replicate. So Smith should get some extra brownie points for that.


In the end, I still believe Smith is ahead only by a whisker. A couple of good series or good WC and Kohli will overtake Smith. I believe in the long run, Kohli will end up being the better batsman.
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Why is Smith ahead by only a whisker? if he has performed better in WC which he won for his country and has many more clutch test innings, shouldn't he be comfortably ahead? :shrug

Anyways I just said Kohli is statistically better. I will leave the allocation of weightage to statistical values to Expert Cricket Statisticians :thumbsup
 
In kohli you get a top 2 batsman in all formats
In Smith you get probably the best test batsman of his generation but a very mediocre player in limited overs
In Williamson you get a world class test bat and decent limited over bat
In root you get a good batsman in all formats

It is pretty clear that if you could pick only 1 batsman out of this lot then it has to be King Kohli, Kohli is comfortably the best overall batsman of this decade, it's not even a debate
 
WildSwing said:
In kohli you get a top 2 batsman in all formats
In Smith you get probably the best test batsman of his generation but a very mediocre player in limited overs
In Williamson you get a world class test bat and decent limited over bat
In root you get a good batsman in all formats

It is pretty clear that if you could pick only 1 batsman out of this lot then it has to be King Kohli, Kohli is comfortably the best overall batsman of this decade, it's not even a debate
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the mediocre ODI player, in Smith, outplayed Kohli in the world cup, when it actually mattered. Yes, there is a debate. Both AB and Smith are better than Kohli
 
hk031992 said:
the mediocre ODI player, in Smith, outplayed Kohli in the world cup, when it actually mattered. Yes, there is a debate. Both AB and Smith are better than Kohli
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lol the same excuse every smith apologist comes up with, the world cup was at smith's home, smith was in the form of his life, it doesn't take much to play good innings. Hold a world cup right now in India and kohli will break all world cup records. Using your stupid logic of world cup performance "where it actually mattered" lol , zaheer khan >>>>> Waqar younis, Check mate
 
hk031992 said:
the mediocre ODI player, in Smith, outplayed Kohli in the world cup, when it actually mattered. Yes, there is a debate. Both AB and Smith are better than Kohli
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Mahmudullah has better World Cup stats than 90% of batsmen, that doesn't make him any better than he is. Same for Smith.
 
WildSwing said:
lol the same excuse every smith apologist comes up with, the world cup was at smith's home, smith was in the form of his life, it doesn't take much to play good innings. Hold a world cup right now in India and kohli will break all world cup records. Using your stupid logic of world cup performance "where it actually mattered" lol , zaheer khan >>>>> Waqar younis, Check mate
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Nonsense. Waqar missed a world cup at his peak in 92, had one bad game in 96, and was well past his prime then. Plus, there is an enormous difference between the two.

Wickets in Aus were relatively flat, Kohli had plenty of experience and still failed to perform when it counts. My point isnt that Kohli isn't better in ODI's, he is. However, Smith is not mediocre in ODI's.
 
hk031992 said:
Nonsense. Waqar missed a world cup at his peak in 92, had one bad game in 96, and was well past his prime then. Plus, there is an enormous difference between the two.

Wickets in Aus were relatively flat, Kohli had plenty of experience and still failed to perform when it counts. My point isnt that Kohli isn't better in ODI's, he is. However, Smith is not mediocre in ODI's.
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lol you are the one spouting nonsense. You say there's an enormous difference between waqar and zaheer but did you fail to notice an even more enormous difference between a batsman averaging just 41 vs a batsman averaging freaking 58?

You come out with million excuses for waqar but did you forget that kohli played his first world cup as a rookie and he's still got 2 more world cups in him. Your so called criteria of "performing when it matters" would also put gambhir over lara, Double check mate
 
hk031992 said:
the mediocre ODI player, in Smith, outplayed Kohli in the world cup, when it actually mattered. Yes, there is a debate. Both AB and Smith are better than Kohli
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So that means Munaf patel is better than Waqar Younis, amirite?
 
Smith after accepting today's ugly incident of ball tampering (cheating) by his team under his leadership, lost many honest supporters of him... It will be big black mark in his career :facepalm:
 
IndianFan2018 said:
Smith after accepting today's ugly incident of ball tampering (cheating) by his team under his leadership, lost many honest supporters of him... It will be big black mark in his career :facepalm:
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Not really in terms of where his batting stands

The discussion here is as a batsman not a person or leader
 
I doubt Smith will be allowed to play the 4th game but if fails this series then it will reduce the gap between him and Kohli considering Kohli had a good series in much worse batting conditions. Also, lot will depend on how Kohli does in England.

Smith ahead at the moment.
 
Slog said:
Tbf it's mostly Indian fans or huge Kohli diehards... Smith hasn't given them any opportunity for almost four years now so now it's time to finally make some posts they haven't had the chance to make :)))
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Just like you bringing in Kohli’s one series every time.i know Kohli has been giving you hard time since that tour.:))) have some patience, kohli will fail sometime down a line.
 
Chrish said:
I doubt Smith will be allowed to play the 4th game but if fails this series then it will reduce the gap between him and Kohli considering Kohli had a good series in much worse batting conditions. Also, lot will depend on how Kohli does in England.

Smith ahead at the moment.
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It's smith first poor major series in years (from 2013 I believe). The Pak away and SA home ones were poor but he still averaged 40+

Really one series won't make much of a difference at this point.

But yes Kohli is on upward trend so regardless was getting close
 
Slog said:
It's smith first poor major series in years (from 2013 I believe). The Pak away and SA home ones were poor but he still averaged 40+

Really one series won't make much of a difference at this point.

But yes Kohli is on upward trend so regardless was getting close
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Well series by series performances are vastly important. Current SA bowling attack is one of the best ever and it would certainly affect every player's legacy on how well they perform against them. Also, keeping in mind that Smith might not come back here till next 3-4 years.

Moreover, Smith "failed" against Bangladesh if that's what you are looking for but it went unnoticed due to low profile opposition.
 
Chrish said:
Well series by series performances are vastly important. Current SA bowling attack is one of the best ever and it would certainly affect every player's legacy on how well they perform against them. Also, keeping in mind that Smith might not come back here till next 3-4 years.

Moreover, Smith "failed" against Bangladesh if that's what you are looking for but it went unnoticed due to low profile opposition.
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Bangladesh is not a major series. I said 'major series.' Don't care about Bangladesh regardless of who the batsman is

Current SA attack is not better than Steyn, Morkel and Philander which he faced last time
 
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