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Virender Sehwag vs Matthew Hayden in Tests

Hasan123

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Both played similar roles in there respected sides of taking the game to the opposition and taking on the new ball.

Who would you say is the better test player?

Discuss......
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Both played similar roles in there respected sides of taking the game to the opposition and taking on the new ball.

Who would you say is the better test player?

Discuss......

Finally, a A vs B thread that makes some sense.

Difficult choice really. The two were very very similar.

Based purely on strike rate, one would go with Sehwag.

But I think Hayden was more 'solid'. He wouldn't try to hit every ball out of the park like Sehwag.

So between the two, I would probably take Hayden for tests. But it is a difficult choice.
 
I'm not a great admirer of either batsman to be honest. But Hayden was massively superior to Sehwag, as I will demonstrate.

To me Virender Sehwag is just nothing as a batsman. He averaged 27.80 in England and 25.46 in South Africa.

But much more damningly, he averaged a pathetic 29.69 in the third innings of Test matches and 31.06 in the fourth innings.

So I view Sehwag as a slogger with a great eye, who was beneath mediocre in the second half of a Test match. He made 22 centuries in 104 innings in the first half of a Test match, but only 1 in 81 innings in the second half of a Test match.

Hayden is on a much higher plane. He only averaged less than 34 in New Zealand, where he only played 4 Tests. And while he averaged 54.96 in the first innings and 45.00 in the second innings, he averaged 53.29 in the third innings and 49.50 in the fourth innings.

So comparing Sehwag to Hayden is like comparing Martin Guptill to David Warner. There is a massive drop from Hayden to Sehwag.
 
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Finally, a A vs B thread that makes some sense.

Difficult choice really. The two were very very similar.

Based purely on strike rate, one would go with Sehwag.

But I think Hayden was more 'solid'. He wouldn't try to hit every ball out of the park like Sehwag.

So between the two, I would probably take Hayden for tests. But it is a difficult choice.


Undecided on which one to go for hence the thread.

Can remember Sehwag taking us apart a couple of times, didn't see enough of Hayden at his peak.
 
I'm not a great admirer of either batsman to be honest. But Hayden was massively superior to Sehwag, as I will demonstrate.

To me Virender Sehwag is just nothing as a batsman. He averaged 27.80 in England and 25.46 in South Africa.

But much more damningly, he averaged a pathetic 29.69 in the third innings of Test matches and 31.06 in the fourth innings.

So I view Sehwag as a slogger with a great eye, who was beneath mediocre in the second half of a Test match. He made 22 centuries in 104 innings in the first half of a Test match, but only 1 in 81 innings in the second half of a Test match.

Hayden is on a much higher plane. He only averaged less than 34 in New Zealand, where he only played 4 Tests. And while he averaged 54.96 in the first innings and 45.00 in the second innings, he averaged 53.29 in the third innings and 49.50 in the fourth innings.

So comparing Sehwag to Hayden is like comparing Martin Guptill to David Warner. There is a massive drop from Hayden to Sehwag.


Not every test player is an attritional player, you need players like Sehwag and Hayden too take the game to the opposition so we get more results in tests.

Your last paragraph I don't agree with at all.
 
Against better bowling, you d go with Hayden.

Spinners or strictly flat tracks, both good but Sehwag probably better.
 
I'm not a great admirer of either batsman to be honest. But Hayden was massively superior to Sehwag, as I will demonstrate.

To me Virender Sehwag is just nothing as a batsman. He averaged 27.80 in England and 25.46 in South Africa.

But much more damningly, he averaged a pathetic 29.69 in the third innings of Test matches and 31.06 in the fourth innings.

So I view Sehwag as a slogger with a great eye, who was beneath mediocre in the second half of a Test match. He made 22 centuries in 104 innings in the first half of a Test match, but only 1 in 81 innings in the second half of a Test match.

Hayden is on a much higher plane. He only averaged less than 34 in New Zealand, where he only played 4 Tests. And while he averaged 54.96 in the first innings and 45.00 in the second innings, he averaged 53.29 in the third innings and 49.50 in the fourth innings.

So comparing Sehwag to Hayden is like comparing Martin Guptill to David Warner. There is a massive drop from Hayden to Sehwag.
Hayden is also a flat track bully of the highest order who failed miserably in england and nz
 
I'm not a great admirer of either batsman to be honest. But Hayden was massively superior to Sehwag, as I will demonstrate.

To me Virender Sehwag is just nothing as a batsman. He averaged 27.80 in England and 25.46 in South Africa.

But much more damningly, he averaged a pathetic 29.69 in the third innings of Test matches and 31.06 in the fourth innings.

So I view Sehwag as a slogger with a great eye, who was beneath mediocre in the second half of a Test match. He made 22 centuries in 104 innings in the first half of a Test match, but only 1 in 81 innings in the second half of a Test match.

Hayden is on a much higher plane. He only averaged less than 34 in New Zealand, where he only played 4 Tests. And while he averaged 54.96 in the first innings and 45.00 in the second innings, he averaged 53.29 in the third innings and 49.50 in the fourth innings.


So comparing Sehwag to Hayden is like comparing Martin Guptill to David Warner. There is a massive drop from Hayden to Sehwag.

This has to be one of the dumbest ways to look at stats given Sehwag played most of his career on pitches that deteriorate into rank-turners by the time you approach 3rd or 4th innings.
 
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]


Sehwag slightly ahead for me.

Reason being,Sehwag struggled in ENG/SA/NZ avging in 20s.Hayden also avgd less than 35 in these places.So Hayden is slightly ahead of Sehwag in playing in pace friendly places

But as a player of spin and on turning tracks,Sehwag has few peers.
 
With due respect this is a joke of a thread, there is no comparison really. Matthew Hayden outscores Sehwag and it is daylight between the quality of the two batters.
 
What are the country wise breakup?

Without looking at stats, I would pick Sehwag in my team.

Averages 50-60 in Asia at a SR of 80-90.

And until 2010, he was pretty decent outside Asia. Didn't he average low 40s outside Asia till that time? He saved a test for India in Sydney in 2008. By scoring a 2nd innings century.

Sehwag is a super duper match winner. Sure, he may not be the best bet in a weak test team but he sure has setup tons of wins for his side with his aggressive batting.

He was a flawed genius for me.
 
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Sehwag easily for me solely because of the impact.....I would prefer him over any modern day openers

Though this comparison is very fair
 
Hayden.

Both of them have done well in the conditions familiar to them and have struggled in same countries. However, for someone like Hayden who is alien to Asian conditions, his record there is outstanding.
 
Id take Virender Sehwag as he was India's biggest match winner on flat wickets where our bowlers needed scoreboard pressure and lots of time to take 20 wickets. Hayden had it easy.
 
Hayden is better in Tests and ODi's.

Sehwag was also a very good cricketer but Hayden is something else.
 
Hayden is massively overrated , only standout thing about him is that he was very good against spin when most of his team struggled , otherwise a minnow basher .
 
Hayden is massively overrated , only standout thing about him is that he was very good against spin when most of his team struggled , otherwise a minnow basher .

Arguably, you're going in the opposite direction as reality.
 
Hayden was more consistent and thus slightly better

Having said that both struggled against quality pace but were brilliant against spin
 
Hayden.. Has been great in India and overall in Asia.

Viru averages in mid 20s in Eng, NZ and SA.
 
I'm not a great admirer of either batsman to be honest. But Hayden was massively superior to Sehwag, as I will demonstrate.

To me Virender Sehwag is just nothing as a batsman. He averaged 27.80 in England and 25.46 in South Africa.

But much more damningly, he averaged a pathetic 29.69 in the third innings of Test matches and 31.06 in the fourth innings.

So I view Sehwag as a slogger with a great eye, who was beneath mediocre in the second half of a Test match. He made 22 centuries in 104 innings in the first half of a Test match, but only 1 in 81 innings in the second half of a Test match.

Hayden is on a much higher plane. He only averaged less than 34 in New Zealand, where he only played 4 Tests. And while he averaged 54.96 in the first innings and 45.00 in the second innings, he averaged 53.29 in the third innings and 49.50 in the fourth innings.

So comparing Sehwag to Hayden is like comparing Martin Guptill to David Warner. There is a massive drop from Hayden to Sehwag.

So according to you 1st and 2nd innings is nothing! And scoring in India is nothing! (Ask Hayden himself for that). Negating the bowlers on first day morning of a test match is nothing (FYI sometimes combating seamers on a winter morning in India on a damp pitch is more difficult than in England! And also in Pakistan where Sehwag scored more runs! Those days when there were no rank-turners as today!)

Setting the Test match to win ("single-handed" without much help from "great bowlers") is nothing, but only saving the test matches, dead-rubber-draw 3rd/4th innings is more significant, is it? (In that context it is middle-order batsmen who should be compared, and not openers! Somebody like Laxman vs. Gilchrist or something!) Openers is about setting the match, so 1st/2nd innings becomes more significant!

I don't think Hayden made more impact than Sehwag to his country! Even on his first Indian tour where he was at his peak, he couldn't win/draw the series (the 3rd/4th innings you are talking about! The real test of 3rd/4th innings is in India!)
 
Both played similar roles in there respected sides of taking the game to the opposition and taking on the new ball.

Who would you say is the better test player?

Discuss......

[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]

Both brilliant match winners on their day. Sehwag is probably most under rated opener in Test, because none considers the impact he can create in Test. One major difference with him & Hayden is that, Mayden retired at first sight of decline - Sehwag dragged his career for 2/3 years which actually has dented his legacy.

One great advantage that Hyden had over Sehwag is his ability to adopt on different situation - I saw him batting for 8 hours century in UAE heat. Besides, among AUS players, he is probably the best in Asia since Border, because of his capability to play spin. But it's true as well that Hayden lost his place when AUS wasn't such dominating team - his presence felt so menacing because he played for a great side which almost always dominated the game from ball one.

Overall, I'll pick Hayden slightly ahead of Sehwag, but at their prime - Sehwag was probably more effective.
 
I will take Hayden. Sehwag was the most dangerous batsman in the world on flat pitches. If the pitch had anything in it for pacers, Sehwag was always a walking wicket.

Hayden's average of 51 in India is better than Sehwag's average of 47 in Australia.
 
I will take Hayden. Sehwag was the most dangerous batsman in the world on flat pitches. If the pitch had anything in it for pacers, Sehwag was always a walking wicket.

Hayden's average of 51 in India is better than Sehwag's average of 47 in Australia.

Stats will not tell you the full story with Sehwag. He was finished as a test player after 2010 and he needlessly played longer damaging his stats very much. Thing is that he was a player whose entire game was built on the hand eye coordination. And when he lost his eye with age, he became very poor as he did not have a good technique to back him up like Dravid or even Tendulkar. Even when the aforementioned two were struggling in their last years, they never looked ugly unlike Sehwag. Sehwag had a rapid decline towards the end of his career averaging just 28 in his last 2 years. He was so bad towards the end that he struggled even at home averaging just 28 against England and Australia at home, whereas he used to simply murder any attack in Asia.

However till 2010, he had a decent record outside asia. Overall stats will tell you that Hayden was better in India than Sehwag in Australia. But Sehwag actually averaged 60 in Australia before his last tour in 2011/12. Hayden had a great first tour of India (think he made 1000 runs in the test and ODI series alone and was averaging close to 100 when he made the Indian fans notice who Hayden was). But he was very mediocre in the next two tours averaging below 35 in them. In contrast, Sehwag was successful in the 2003/04 tour and 2007/08 tour of Australia. But he was a poor caricature of himself in his last tour in 2011/12 when he failed badly.

There is not much difference between the two actually.

Both struggled in England. Sehwag actually had a good first tour in 2002 when he averaged 40 scoring a century at Nottingham. But he missed the 2007 tour which India won. He recovered from an injury in 2011 and came into a tour when India were getting demolished and struggled real bad in the last 2 matches (got a king pair vs Anderson). Hayden never really had a good tour of England and struggled in the home of his Ashes rivals barring one century at the Oval.

Both struggled badly in New Zealand as well. Both were weak against swing in general.

Sehwag had a relatively good first tour of South Africa (he hit a century at Bloemfontain iirc). But struggled very much in the next two tours and never really made a significant contribution thereafter in South Africa. Hayden similarly had a good first tour and was average in the succeeding ones. Overall he was decent in South Africa but that is the place where most Australian batsmen find the easiest to adapt to outside of their home.

Both were very good in the west indies.

Hayden was surprisingly good in Asia for a non asian player. He didn't always succeed in India but had tons in the UAE and Sri Lanka as well. Sehwag was literally a beast in Asia barring his last year or so after his decline.

So when you think about it, there isn't much to separate the two. Sehwag was a beast in asia, had a great record in Australia and West Indies and was decent in England (prior to his decline) but was poor in South Africa and New Zealand. Hayden was fantastic at home and in the West Indies, was very good in the subcontinent, was average in South Africa and poor in England and New Zealand.

Hayden had the better stats because he retired when he declined a bit. But Sehwag, like all asian players, kept playing too long and damaged his stats very much. Overall at their primes, I would select Sehwag everywhere barring South Africa where he was poor.
 
At his peak, Sehwag was a superior version of David Warner. He was one of the biggest match winners and change the game in a session like nobody ever did (before Warner came along). He was pretty much a beast in whole of asia. But unlike Warner, he had tons in Australia, England, South Africa and the West Indies too.

But I wouldn't select a 32+ year old Sehwag in my team as he would be a huge liability without his hand eye coordination.
 
Sehwag's wife (who seems a doctor) already was guessing (at Sehwag's prime during a TV interview) that he is dependent on great hand-eye coordination, so he may fade away after he loses it over the years! And that she would take care of his eyes to the best extent (not much can be done though!). So having understood this well in advance he would have taken wiser decision about his retirement. But there is not much professionalism as yet in India (the country in general, maybe there is enough professionalism as a Cricket Board), hence we are seeing old horses like Yuvaraj, Dhoni still limping around without giving up! They feel that they will be in a better financial position (and fame) only if they keep playing. Its not just them, the board, people, media everyone should get professional (instead of being too harsh or too emotional about these legends!) Sehwag (or anyone) continues to play beyond their prime because they know that nobody is going to easily snatch their place!
 
Sehwag's wife (who seems a doctor) already was guessing (at Sehwag's prime during a TV interview) that he is dependent on great hand-eye coordination, so he may fade away after he loses it over the years! And that she would take care of his eyes to the best extent (not much can be done though!). So having understood this well in advance he would have taken wiser decision about his retirement. But there is not much professionalism as yet in India (the country in general, maybe there is enough professionalism as a Cricket Board), hence we are seeing old horses like Yuvaraj, Dhoni still limping around without giving up! They feel that they will be in a better financial position (and fame) only if they keep playing. Its not just them, the board, people, media everyone should get professional (instead of being too harsh or too emotional about these legends!) Sehwag (or anyone) continues to play beyond their prime because they know that nobody is going to easily snatch their place!

He was playing IPL with glasses iirc..

Didn't work out well.:narine
 
He was playing IPL with glasses iirc..

Didn't work out well.:narine

Didn't look good either, but he was not that bad. Left IPL at proper time I think, even international cricket he didn't pain us too much (we were lacking a strong person to replace him).

Look Australian cricket now! So low (losing even some home games and dreadful outside). They surely are facing difficulty with new players replacing old ones. But their board, media and fans are patient! Imagine India in that position (We would have come up with all kind of blame-games, theories, attacks, etc.) They are smart in building their team with strong new players (don't be surprised if they win the next world cup as well! They were on similar low last time around)
 
Hayden comfortably.

Sehwag was good on certain pitches, and hopeless on others. Hayden more consistent.
 
I will take Hayden. Sehwag was the most dangerous batsman in the world on flat pitches. If the pitch had anything in it for pacers, Sehwag was always a walking wicket.

Hayden's average of 51 in India is better than Sehwag's average of 47 in Australia.

What were their averages in New Zealand?
 
Hayden for me by a whisker, Sehwag went down hill after 2011 I believe, he became fatter, slower and lost his hand eye and the batting avg in SA & ENG declined...
 
Hayden was the superior batsman. Equally destructive as Sehwag but was also a decent batsman in difficult batting conditions, whereas Sehwag was a guaranteed failure whenever the ball moved an inch.
 
Hayden was the superior batsman. Equally destructive as Sehwag but was also a decent batsman in difficult batting conditions, whereas Sehwag was a guaranteed failure whenever the ball moved an inch.

Hayden is a failure in eng, nz and moderately successful in sa. He is a walking wicket in his early years when facing ambrose, walsh and he is poor against any swing. He is a classical flat tack bully like sehwag
 
Hayden is a failure in eng, nz and moderately successful in sa. He is a walking wicket in his early years when facing ambrose, walsh and he is poor against any swing. He is a classical flat tack bully like sehwag

He was a FTB himself but not absolute trash like Sehwag outside his comfort zone. I wouldn't have either in my team and would go with Smith and Cook from the post-2000 generation.
 
Sehwag averaged near 50 with the SR of 82..

That's truly remarkable. Only Gilly from other notable batsmen has comparable SR but Sehwag did it as an opener.
 
Hayden was the superior batsman. Equally destructive as Sehwag but was also a decent batsman in difficult batting conditions, whereas Sehwag was a guaranteed failure whenever the ball moved an inch.

Hayden with a SR of 60 was equally destructive as Sehwag with a SR of 82?
 
Hayden's SR is very good for an opener. It's just that Sehwag's SR is too freakish to compare with anyone else.

It's higher than ever Warner!
 
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Sehwag easily. I would always prefer an opener who gives me a good start in the first innings and set up the match in my favour.
 
Only stupids will not select a guy like Sehwag in their Playing Test XI at his "prime". Sure he is not the kind of guy who can play 15 years of "solid technique" cricket and remain consistent. But if you look outside of the stats and look to win test matches, then you will always select him! He gave India chances to win the test matches even where it looked absolutely impossible (if only we had a strong bowling unit to utilize the opportunity, sure we had a decent batting unit to back him and hence some good results! Imagine if we had him now with Shami, Jadeja, Ashwin around & with Kohli as captain & in middle order!)

At the same time it is also equally stupid to keep him in the team once he lost that hand-eye coordination! There is a reason why different planets rotate/revolve in different speeds & have different sizes!
 
Sehwag at his peak was better than Hayden. But overall Hayden was better.
 
Hayden with a SR of 60 was equally destructive as Sehwag with a SR of 82?

SR counts for nothing in test cricket. Hayden had the ability to accelerate whenever he wanted to, just like Sehwag. However, Hayden also had the ability to fight it out, something Sehwag didn't.
 
When you have SR in 80s it definitely means you can tilt the balance of game in 20 overs

Why would Warner be the most feared bat ATM? And his SR is even lower than Sehwag!
 
SR counts for nothing in test cricket. Hayden had the ability to accelerate whenever he wanted to, just like Sehwag. However, Hayden also had the ability to fight it out, something Sehwag didn't.

When did Hayden score a crazy fast matchwinning innings?
 
Strike rate is not important for players like afridi who couldn't score big but when there is a player like sehwag who scored regularly over 100 & 150 then it counts
 
When did Hayden score a crazy fast matchwinning innings?

Hayden has many match-winning innings among his 30 test centuries. He is a superior batsman to Sehwag, no matter how much you Indians try to argue otherwise.

Sehwag was beyond useless on anything that wasn't a road. Nothing more than a tailender in England and South Africa.
 
Hayden because just like Sehwag is greatest in Asia, he is also the greatest non Asian batsmen in Asia.

And he did well in South Africa ( moderately but has got 2 hundreds there) and West Indies unlike Sehwag.
 
Hayden overall.But on spin pitches i would pick sehwag over any other batsman except lara.Still remember what he did to murali,mendis and herath.
 
People saying Sehwag was a FTB & wasn't able to stay on the crease in difficult situations cannot be more wrong.Rather he was a genius who would keep on going with his high SR in spite of difficult batting conditions.Just watch his 201* against SRL.Whole Indian team was struggling against newly arrived A.Mendis who was spitting fire on a spinning track & he carried his bat through the inning while the team got all out for 329.There's a reason why very few spinners dominated India in 2000's.Unlike in this decade(2010's) where we lost a series to England & got mauled by Australia in Pune test.
Just to summarise Sehwag,Here's a quote from Ashwin's interview where he recalled his conversation with him,
Viru:'You know what, I don't think off-spinners are bowlers. They do not trouble me at all. I just find it easy smashing them.'

You may think Pandya is aggressive against spinners but he isn't even 30% of the level of the audaciousness shown by Sehwag against them.It might be debatable but I think he was India's greatest player of spin as he literally used to smash premium spin bowlers out of the attack in largely helpful conditions.
 
Can someone post detailed stats in around different countries/phases of their career?

Sehwag has a monstrous average/SR in SC( away from home as well). Although in England it's a whole different story :jimmy
 
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