Viv Richards vs Virat Kohli vs Sachin Tendulkar vs Ricky Ponting - Who is the GOAT in ODIs?

[Robert]

Richards.

He changed the way people batted in ODIs. Look at the stats for the other leading players of his day and compare to Richards.

He was one of those guys who raised the bar of what is possible.

 

[Technics 1210]

You don't think they would not have analyzed this? here you go they have done it. Based on the various metrics Tendulkar tops. Punter thanks to his world cup wins finishes second. Kohli 3rd. Richards 4th.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...-the-greatest-odi-batsman-of-all-time-1224849

Ahhh so silverware does matter. Great!

What's this though, Punter 'thanks to his world cup wins?' You spent half your time trying to convince me Ponting didn't win 3 World Cups!

 

[Hitman]

Ahhh so silverware does matter. Great!

What's this though, Punter 'thanks to his world cup wins?' You spent half your time trying to convince me Ponting didn't win 3 World Cups!

On another note, what's your opinion on your favorite bowler Waqar Younis? He won a grand total of 0 World Cups, and choked in both the World Cup matches he played against arch rivals India.

 

[jnaveen1980]

The fact you continue to assert that my definition of GOAT is only based on silverware despite me making it clear on my first response in this thread that Silverware, Captaincy and ODI career stats all contribute to GOAT definition tells me I am wasting my time with you.

You can pretend Silverware doesn't count but I bet if Tendulkar won 3 World Cups, and was a successful ODI captain, you would be singing a different tune.

As for Tendulkar facing Marshall who was a fraction of the bowler towards the end of his career is just you name dropping now. Same goes for Imran/Hadlee/Botham. Tendulkar facing twilight bowlers is just sensationalism and exaggeration for effect.

Now if Tendulkar had faced Andy Roberts, Michael Holding, Joel Garner, Malcolm Marshall and Colin Croft at their peak then you may have a point, but then Gavaskar would have something to say about that.

As for Ponting, he just faces a bowling machine in his career - didn't you know?

Hadlee in twilight of his career? He may have retired. He had a successful year both in Tests and ODIs. For Botham also that was one of the most successful ODI year. 17 matches 23 wickets. If you think that is name dropping, Patterson was at his peak at that time. Ambrose was also playing. Nobody can play all the top bowlers at their "peak" separated by 2 decades. He will have to have a career of 30 years. Fcat is he played sizable number of ATG bowlers in his time. Most of these 10k scorers run had a small window where they piled a lot of runs. Sangakkara is a classic example. So is Amla. Punter's strike rate touched 80 in his 272nd match in 2008. After 12 years of his career. True story. Viv Ricahrds strike was in the 90s when he played in the 80s with a better average.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ahhh so silverware does matter. Great!

What's this though, Punter 'thanks to his world cup wins?' You spent half your time trying to convince me Ponting didn't win 3 World Cups!

Read the story. Originally it was not there. This was an added parameter. That put him there. Otherwise he would not even be in top 3 let alone lead the table. Ponting is a "pseudo ATG" to bring down Tendulkar First Punter, Then Amla.

Ponting would not have been a contender for a top-three place in an earlier ratings analysis. Now that I have introduced the very significant major-cups related parameter, he deservedly comes in in second place. He clocked the full 12.5 PRPs possible for this parameter, which made the difference.

 

[jnaveen1980]

If Kohli's form had continued in the last 3 years he would have finished in top 2. This exercise was done in 2020.

My predictions for a similar exercise in, say, 2024: Kohli will move into second place, but he is not likely to displace the Little Master. Sharma will move into the top ten. His basic numbers are very good. Whether de Villiers also moves into the top ten depends on how South Africa perform in the next World Cup and whether de Villiers plays in it. Taylor and David Warner (currently in 25th position) have every chance of moving into the top 20.

 

[Ab Fan]

1. Viv
2. SRT
3. Ponting
4. Kohli
5. ABD

The metrics are :

1. Consistency ( runs and average)
2. Strike rate ( impact factor)
3. World Cup dominance
4. World Cup knockouts and final dominance
5. Memorable knocks with bat

Personally, I would put ABD at 1 but that might be offensive for some

 

[Technics 1210]

Hadlee in twilight of his career? He may have retired. He had a successful year both in Tests and ODIs. For Botham also that was one of the most successful ODI year. 17 matches 23 wickets. If you think that is name dropping, Patterson was at his peak at that time. Ambrose was also playing. Nobody can play all the top bowlers at their "peak" separated by 2 decades. He will have to have a career of 30 years. Fcat is he played sizable number of ATG bowlers in his time. Most of these 10k scorers run had a small window where they piled a lot of runs. Sangakkara is a classic example. So is Amla. Punter's strike rate touched 80 in his 272nd match in 2008. After 12 years of his career. True story. Viv Ricahrds strike was in the 90s when he played in the 80s with a better average.

Yes you are name dropping.

Tendulkar debuted in ODIs in Dec 1989.

He just played 4 matches vs WI involving Malcolm Marshall (who was nearing the end of his career), and you make it sound like Tendulkar played Marshall for donkey's years.

Stop pretending like Tendulkar faced the wrath of West Indian bowling, he didn't.

 

[Technics 1210]

Read the story. Originally it was not there. This was an added parameter. That put him there. Otherwise he would not even be in top 3 let alone lead the table. Ponting is a "pseudo ATG" to bring down Tendulkar First Punter, Then Amla.

Ponting would not have been a contender for a top-three place in an earlier ratings analysis. Now that I have introduced the very significant major-cups related parameter, he deservedly comes in in second place. He clocked the full 12.5 PRPs possible for this parameter, which made the difference.

It was not there because the Indian journalist (most likely is Indian) did not initially include it because Tendulkar has been an abject failure in winning ICC trophies.

Here's the thing, you do not have an opinion of your own and you are relying on a quote from Kohli, and an article in Cricinfo (written no doubt by an Indian journalist) to support your GOAT opinion.

There are users here who consider Viv the GOAT, users here who consider Kohli the GOAT, and of course myself who considers Ponting the GOAT, are we all wrong just because an article in Cricinfo says Tendulkar is the ODI GOAT?

I am only interested in people who make up their own minds and form their own opinions. I can easily search Google for articles on who is the ODI GOAT myself if I wanted to, plus you might as well stop debating if you are going to rely on the opinion of others!

 

[jnaveen1980]

It was not there because the Indian journalist (most likely is Indian) did not initially include it because Tendulkar has been an abject failure in winning ICC trophies.

Here's the thing, you do not have an opinion of your own and you are relying on a quote from Kohli, and an article in Cricinfo (written no doubt by an Indian journalist) to support your GOAT opinion.

There are users here who consider Viv the GOAT, users here who consider Kohli the GOAT, and of course myself who considers Ponting the GOAT, are we all wrong just because an article in Cricinfo says Tendulkar is the ODI GOAT?

I am only interested in people who make up their own minds and form their own opinions. I can easily search Google for articles on who is the ODI GOAT myself if I wanted to, plus you might as well stop debating if you are going to rely on the opinion of others!

He became a GOAT long back. I don't need to rely on anyone else's opinions. This pseudo GOATs popping up anytime an Indian is contending for the title is not at all surprising. A reason why you are evading the GOAT question about ODI bowlers. I consider Mcgrath as the GOAT ODI bowler. Let us leave it at that. For all i care i don't mind Viv being a GOAT or even MSD being a GOAT. I have seen Punter long enough to know that he is a level below these guys regardless of his total runs.

 

[Technics 1210]

He became a GOAT long back. I don't need to rely on anyone else's opinions. This pseudo GOATs popping up anytime an Indian is contending for the title is not at all surprising. A reason why you are evading the GOAT question about ODI bowlers. I consider Mcgrath as the GOAT ODI bowler. Let us leave it at that. For all i care i don't mind Viv being a GOAT or even MSD being a GOAT. I have seen Punter long enough to know that he is a level below these guys regardless of his total runs.

This thread is not about ODI GOAT bowlers! So don't try and change the subject because you have dug yourself into a hole.

Since you do not believe silverware is a major metric in a ODI GOAT discussion, then put your money where your mouth is and REMOVE all ICC WC and CT stats from Tendulkar's ODI career stats.

You can start by removing Tendulkar's ODI WC stats - 2278 runs, 6 centuries, and 15 50s. Then remove Tendulkar's ODI CT stats - 441 runs, 1 century, and 1 50.

Go on I dare you, let see if you really stand by your opinion and logic - I look forward to seeing what ODI AVG and SR Tendulkar ends up with minus ICC tournaments stats.

 

[atreus]

ranking as well as an equivalent to them

1.Viv Richards = Michael Jordan

2. Sachin Tendulkar = LeBron James

3. Ricky Ponting = Kobe Bryant

4. Virat Kohli = Wilt Chamberlain

You can see who is what

 

[Aman]

lol Virat is daylight from them but the other way.

I really have no clue how Indian fans could rate Kohli ahead of Sachin. Absolute delusion. Must have been under the age of 12, not seen Sachin dominate two WCs and care too much about all that JAMODI plundering.

 

[Aman]

1. Viv
2. SRT
3. Ponting
4. Kohli
5. ABD

The metrics are :

1. Consistency ( runs and average)
2. Strike rate ( impact factor)
3. World Cup dominance
4. World Cup knockouts and final dominance
5. Memorable knocks with bat

Personally, I would put ABD at 1 but that might be offensive for some

After 3 it becomes tricky tbh, you could make a case for Kohli, AB and Gilly.

I'm going to list my top 5 after the WC. If Kohli stinks up another WC, probably will be Gilly 4, AB 5 and Kohli 6.

If Kohli dominates, is the top scorer and leads India to a WC win, he's in the top 3 and Ponting goes out. You can argue the top 3 either way.

 

[Aman]

1. Viv
2. SRT
3. Ponting
4. Kohli
5. ABD

The metrics are :

1. Consistency ( runs and average)
2. Strike rate ( impact factor)
3. World Cup dominance
4. World Cup knockouts and final dominance
5. Memorable knocks with bat

Personally, I would put ABD at 1 but that might be offensive for some

I'm glad you have 3, 4 and 5 there. In terms of WCs Kohli has none of those ticked. Those metrics you can put AB in there ahead, we were fortunate in the SF that it rained otherwise he looked good for making a ton. In hindsight SA probably would have been the better bet against Aus and could have beaten them in the Final, AB was in absolutely amazing form and was dominating that WC from memory. Wasn't meant to be.

 

[Aman]

I'm glad you have 3, 4 and 5 there. In terms of WCs Kohli has none of those ticked. Those metrics you can put AB in there ahead, we were fortunate in the SF that it rained otherwise he looked good for making a ton. In hindsight SA probably would have been the better bet against Aus and could have beaten them in the Final, AB was in absolutely amazing form and was dominating that WC from memory. Wasn't meant to be.

WC dominance - being among the top run scorers and a POTT candidate.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is the GOAT ODI batsman. He is the only top order batsman in history who is also an extraordinary finisher.

In 50+ years of ODI cricket, we have seen many great top-order players & finishers, but Kohli is the only individual batsman who has successfully combined both roles.

He is essentially Tendulkar + Dhoni & Ponting + Bevan rolled into one.

He has redefined the art of chasing & is a better chaser than every other batsman in history put together.

People talk about his failures in a few big games. What failures? His so-called failures tower over the success of other batsmen.

He has done in the ODI format what no one before him could & what no one else after him will.

Winning trophies etc. depends on a lot of variables not just the performance one individual player.

Gilchrist is remembered for being the only batsman in ODI history to score three 50+ scores in World Cup finals.

What people do not remember is that Gilchrist played 7 ODI semifinals in his career & failed in every single one of them & yet, his team still carried him into the final on 6 occasions.

This is the luxury you have when you play for a legendary team. There is little dependency on one individual player.

Kohli’s India would never win 6 out 7 semifinals if he fails. This is why when Kohli failed in 2015 & 2019, India were unable to carry him to the final & give him a shot at redemption like Australia did with Gilchrist.

We are talking about Ponting’s World Cup haul while he was playing for - and leading - a team that won the 2003 World Cup without Shane Warne.

Pound for pound, Kohli is a better ODI batsman than Tendulkar & Ponting. There is nothing they could do that Kohli cannot as far as individual batting skills are concerned, but he can do stuff and he has done stuff they were never capable of.

One could make a strong case for Viv because his combination of average & SR was unheard of in his time & he played some of the greatest knocks in ODI history, but if you micro-analyze you will find holes in every career.

The two best bowling attacks during Richards’ career were that of West Indies & Pakistan.

He never played the West Indies bowlers in international cricket & the best he could face were Pakistan’s bowlers.

He averaged 30 against Pakistan with 0 hundreds in 39 ODI innings.

The moral of the story is that you can make anyone look bad if you cherry-pick certain aspects of a career because apart from maybe McGrath, you will not find a flawless record anywhere.

 

[Aman]

Kohli is the GOAT ODI batsman. He is the only top order batsman in history who is also an extraordinary finisher.

In 50+ years of ODI cricket, we have seen many great top-order players & finishers, but Kohli is the only individual batsman who has successfully combined both roles.

He is essentially Tendulkar + Dhoni & Ponting + Bevan rolled into one.

He has redefined the art of chasing & is a better chaser than every other batsman in history put together.

People talk about his failures in a few big games. What failures? His so-called failures tower over the success of other batsmen.

He has done in the ODI format what no one before him could & what no one else after him will.

Winning trophies etc. depends on a lot of variables not just the performance one individual player.

Gilchrist is remembered for being the only batsman in ODI history to score three 50+ scores in World Cup finals.

What people do not remember is that Gilchrist played 7 ODI semifinals in his career & failed in every single one of them & yet, his team still carried him into the final on 6 occasions.

This is the luxury you have when you play for a legendary team. There is little dependency on one individual player.

Kohli’s India would never win 6 out 7 semifinals if he fails. This is why when Kohli failed in 2015 & 2019, India were unable to carry him to the final & give him a shot at redemption like Australia did with Gilchrist.

We are talking about Ponting’s World Cup haul while he was playing for - and leading - a team that won the 2003 World Cup without Shane Warne.

Pound for pound, Kohli is a better ODI batsman than Tendulkar & Ponting. There is nothing they could do that Kohli cannot as far as individual batting skills are concerned, but he can do stuff and he has done stuff they were never capable of.

One could make a strong case for Viv because his combination of average & SR was unheard of in his time & he played some of the greatest knocks in ODI history, but if you micro-analyze you will find holes in every career.

The two best bowling attacks during Richards’ career were that of West Indies & Pakistan.

He never played the West Indies bowlers in international cricket & the best he could face were Pakistan’s bowlers.

He averaged 30 against Pakistan with 0 hundreds in 39 ODI innings.

The moral of the story is that you can make anyone look bad if you cherry-pick certain aspects of a career because apart from maybe McGrath, you will not find a flawless record anywhere.

The man is more comparable to Chris Martin when it comes to WC KOs.

 

[dravidthewall]

Kohli is the GOAT ODI batsman. He is the only top order batsman in history who is also an extraordinary finisher.

In 50+ years of ODI cricket, we have seen many great top-order players & finishers, but Kohli is the only individual batsman who has successfully combined both roles.

He is essentially Tendulkar + Dhoni & Ponting + Bevan rolled into one.

He has redefined the art of chasing & is a better chaser than every other batsman in history put together.

People talk about his failures in a few big games. What failures? His so-called failures tower over the success of other batsmen.

He has done in the ODI format what no one before him could & what no one else after him will.

Winning trophies etc. depends on a lot of variables not just the performance one individual player.

Gilchrist is remembered for being the only batsman in ODI history to score three 50+ scores in World Cup finals.

What people do not remember is that Gilchrist played 7 ODI semifinals in his career & failed in every single one of them & yet, his team still carried him into the final on 6 occasions.

This is the luxury you have when you play for a legendary team. There is little dependency on one individual player.

Kohli’s India would never win 6 out 7 semifinals if he fails. This is why when Kohli failed in 2015 & 2019, India were unable to carry him to the final & give him a shot at redemption like Australia did with Gilchrist.

We are talking about Ponting’s World Cup haul while he was playing for - and leading - a team that won the 2003 World Cup without Shane Warne.

Pound for pound, Kohli is a better ODI batsman than Tendulkar & Ponting. There is nothing they could do that Kohli cannot as far as individual batting skills are concerned, but he can do stuff and he has done stuff they were never capable of.

One could make a strong case for Viv because his combination of average & SR was unheard of in his time & he played some of the greatest knocks in ODI history, but if you micro-analyze you will find holes in every career.

The two best bowling attacks during Richards’ career were that of West Indies & Pakistan.

He never played the West Indies bowlers in international cricket & the best he could face were Pakistan’s bowlers.

He averaged 30 against Pakistan with 0 hundreds in 39 ODI innings.

The moral of the story is that you can make anyone look bad if you cherry-pick certain aspects of a career because apart from maybe McGrath, you will not find a flawless record anywhere.

This . Because of sheer ability to chase in pressure situation,to hold his nerve is not a cup of tea for everyone. I mentioned it above post. Tendulkar, ponting never chased the big total what kohli has done in his career.

 

[Aman]

This . Because of sheer ability to chase in pressure situation,to hold his nerve is not a cup of tea for everyone. I mentioned it above post. Tendulkar, ponting never chased the big total what kohli has done in his career.

What pressure?

What has he chased in WC KOs?

There is little pressure chasing 300 odd in a damn JAMODI on a phatta. Chasing 250-280 in a WC KO is a completely different ball game and Kohli has failed that test every chance he's gotten.

 

[TheSultan]

Viv is out and on his own as the GOAT. I shudder to think what he’d do in this era with more powerful bats, baby pace bowling etc.

No one even comes close.

Could say Ponting because unlike others he also has that icing on the cake of a World Cup final monster performance like Viv.

Kohli would def be above Tendulkar with his chasing ability but he has been terrible in crucial World Cup games.

Tendulkar - a lot of stat padding but not much else. Failed tremendously in his two cracks at a World Cup final. One word to really sum him up - soft

 

[dravidthewall]

What pressure?

What has he chased in WC KOs?

There is little pressure chasing 300 odd in a damn JAMODI on a phatta. Chasing 250-280 in a WC KO is a completely different ball game and Kohli has failed that test every chance he's gotten.

Which WC KO game sachin and ponting chased and win it for their respective team? Atleast kohli chased in 2011 WC final ,india would have serious problem if he got out early in that match . Score will be looks like 30/3 ,chasing 273 against malinga and co.

 

[Aman]

Viv is out and on his own as the GOAT. I shudder to think what he’d do in this era with more powerful bats, baby pace bowling etc.

No one even comes close.

Could say Ponting because unlike others he also has that icing on the cake of a World Cup final monster performance like Viv.

Kohli would def be above Tendulkar with his chasing ability but he has been terrible in crucial World Cup games.

Tendulkar - a lot of stat padding but not much else. Failed tremendously in his two cracks at a World Cup final. One word to really sum him up - soft

Sachin dominated two WCs. That puts in the top 3.

The thing against Ponting is his record isn't as good and he had a lot of top tier ATGs who would make the top 10 playing with him.

I say this as someone who has Ponting as one of his all time favorite batsmen. Objectively, I put Sachin and Viv ahead.

 

[Aman]

Which WC KO game sachin and ponting chased and win it for their respective team? Atleast kohli chased in 2011 WC final ,india would have serious problem if he got out early in that match . Score will be looks like 30/3 ,chasing 273 against malinga and co.

Ponting has won 3 WCs and has memorable performances in crucial matches.

Sachin dominated two WCs and was the main man/star player for India's 2011 WC win (Yuvi was instrumental as well, but that was Sachin's team).

 

[Aman]

Which WC KO game sachin and ponting chased and win it for their respective team? Atleast kohli chased in 2011 WC final ,india would have serious problem if he got out early in that match . Score will be looks like 30/3 ,chasing 273 against malinga and co.

If Kohli has another stinker in the WC and goes missing again when India need him, where are you going to rank him? Or are you another of those fans who was saying he's not top 3 three weeks back and has changed their mind because he scored 100s against Bangladesh in a dead rubber and a minnow level SL team.

I can see Kohli bombing out another WC and every Indian fan abusing him, only to start calling him GOAT after he scores 3 100s in a 5 match series against WI.

Just like Ronaldo fans. Shameless lot.

 

[dravidthewall]

Ponting has won 3 WCs and has memorable performances in crucial matches.

Sachin dominated two WCs and was the main man/star player for India's 2011 WC win (Yuvi was instrumental as well, but that was Sachin's team).

Ponting won 3 WC's . In which 1999 WC low scoring affair with pakistan and gilchrist chased that total down . 2007 worldcup again Gilchrist 100 against srilanka . Only 2003 worldcup final he played well that too foundation already Laid by gilchrist and hayden.

 

[Aman]

Ponting won 3 WC's . In which 1999 WC low scoring affair with pakistan and gilchrist chased that total down . 2007 worldcup again Gilchrist 100 against srilanka . Only 2003 worldcup final he played well that too foundation already Laid by gilchrist and hayden.

That is why Ponting isn't clearly the GOAT despite having 3 WCs and an iconic ton in a WC Final.

I have him below Sachin and Viv.

 

[Aseem_04]

Some of the users so jealous seeing Kohli, Srt , that they put inferior Ricky ponting in list so they can have name in list to bank upon, Viv Richards were failure Against Against express pace bowlers like lily and and Pakistanis that time 30 average as someone stated above , 47 Hundred in Just 250 inning no one can come close ,plus his chasing ability makes Him King OF KINGS , Undisputed GOat Kohli

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Sachin
Viv
Ponting
Some daylight
.....
.....
Kohli

 

[Major]

Hard to choose between ponting and kohli

Never seen Viv bat.

Tendulkar is no where near for me.

Kohli scores crazily and is an impact player. But on the other hand Ponting has silverware. His team dominated and plus he was a captain. 3 world cups, and that too undefeated run till 2011(Pakistan ended their streak ), so would have to say Ponting

 

[Major]

Some of the users so jealous seeing Kohli, Srt , that they put inferior Ricky ponting in list so they can have name in list to bank upon, Viv Richards were failure Against Against express pace bowlers like lily and and Pakistanis that time 30 average as someone stated above , 47 Hundred in Just 250 inning no one can come close ,plus his chasing ability makes Him King OF KINGS , Undisputed GOat Kohli

inferior ponting has 3 world cups and a chmapion trophy. Inferior ponting played in a team that stayed undefeated from 1999 till 2011 in world cups alone

 

[jeetu]

This was part of the table i made few years back taking Era performance into consideration.
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Rank [/td][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]Era SR [/td][td]Era Avg [/td][td]SR/ Era SR [/td][td]Avg/ EraAvg [/td][td]Result [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1 [/td][td]IVA Richards [/td][td]186 [/td][td]6716 [/td][td]47.30 [/td][td]90.20 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]65.92 [/td][td]29.32 [/td][td]1.37 [/td][td]1.61 [/td][td]2.21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2 [/td][td]Zaheer Abbas [/td][td]62 [/td][td]2572 [/td][td]47.63 [/td][td]84.80 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]64.70 [/td][td]28.78 [/td][td]1.31 [/td][td]1.66 [/td][td]2.17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3 [/td][td]AB de Villiers [/td][td]227 [/td][td]9577 [/td][td]53.50 [/td][td]101.10 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]80.61 [/td][td]32.77 [/td][td]1.25 [/td][td]1.63 [/td][td]2.05 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4 [/td][td]V Kohli [/td][td]222 [/td][td]10533 [/td][td]59.51 [/td][td]92.59 [/td][td]39 [/td][td]81.95 [/td][td]33.24 [/td][td]1.13 [/td][td]1.79 [/td][td]2.02 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5 [/td][td]MG Bevan [/td][td]231 [/td][td]6909 [/td][td]53.98 [/td][td]74.21 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]72.45 [/td][td]30.84 [/td][td]1.02 [/td][td]1.75 [/td][td]1.79 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6 [/td][td]JM Bairstow [/td][td]54 [/td][td]2017 [/td][td]48.02 [/td][td]104.56 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]83.16 [/td][td]33.73 [/td][td]1.26 [/td][td]1.42 [/td][td]1.79 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7 [/td][td]MS Dhoni [/td][td]333 [/td][td]10363 [/td][td]51.56 [/td][td]87.90 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]80.24 [/td][td]32.65 [/td][td]1.10 [/td][td]1.58 [/td][td]1.73 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]8 [/td][td]MEK Hussey [/td][td]185 [/td][td]5442 [/td][td]48.16 [/td][td]87.17 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]77.60 [/td][td]31.67 [/td][td]1.12 [/td][td]1.52 [/td][td]1.71 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9 [/td][td]SR Tendulkar [/td][td]463 [/td][td]18426 [/td][td]44.83 [/td][td]86.24 [/td][td]49 [/td][td]73.87 [/td][td]31.13 [/td][td]1.17 [/td][td]1.44 [/td][td]1.68 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]10 [/td][td]GS Chappell [/td][td]73 [/td][td]2331 [/td][td]40.19 [/td][td]75.71 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]63.82 [/td][td]28.55 [/td][td]1.19 [/td][td]1.41 [/td][td]1.67 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]11 [/td][td]HM Amla [/td][td]172 [/td][td]7896 [/td][td]49.97 [/td][td]89.24 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]81.95 [/td][td]33.24 [/td][td]1.09 [/td][td]1.50 [/td][td]1.64 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]12 [/td][td]DM Jones [/td][td]164 [/td][td]6068 [/td][td]44.62 [/td][td]72.57 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]66.77 [/td][td]29.91 [/td][td]1.09 [/td][td]1.49 [/td][td]1.62 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]13 [/td][td]JC Buttler [/td][td]121 [/td][td]3142 [/td][td]39.28 [/td][td]116.76 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]83.83 [/td][td]34.01 [/td][td]1.39 [/td][td]1.15 [/td][td]1.61 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]14 [/td][td]A Symonds [/td][td]195 [/td][td]5066 [/td][td]40.21 [/td][td]92.39 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]75.04 [/td][td]31.15 [/td][td]1.23 [/td][td]1.29 [/td][td]1.59 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]15 [/td][td]RG Sharma [/td][td]199 [/td][td]7799 [/td][td]48.14 [/td][td]88.61 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]81.49 [/td][td]33.10 [/td][td]1.09 [/td][td]1.45 [/td][td]1.58 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]16 [/td][td]JE Root [/td][td]121 [/td][td]4946 [/td][td]51.52 [/td][td]86.44 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]84.40 [/td][td]34.12 [/td][td]1.02 [/td][td]1.51 [/td][td]1.55 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]17 [/td][td]S Dhawan [/td][td]121 [/td][td]5159 [/td][td]45.65 [/td][td]93.70 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]82.59 [/td][td]33.61 [/td][td]1.13 [/td][td]1.36 [/td][td]1.54 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]18 [/td][td]ML Hayden [/td][td]158 [/td][td]6131 [/td][td]44.11 [/td][td]78.99 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]73.41 [/td][td]30.92 [/td][td]1.08 [/td][td]1.43 [/td][td]1.53 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]19 [/td][td]V Sehwag [/td][td]249 [/td][td]8261 [/td][td]35.15 [/td][td]104.37 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]76.07 [/td][td]31.44 [/td][td]1.37 [/td][td]1.12 [/td][td]1.53 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]20 [/td][td]IJL Trott [/td][td]68 [/td][td]2819 [/td][td]51.25 [/td][td]77.06 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]79.49 [/td][td]32.53 [/td][td]0.97 [/td][td]1.58 [/td][td]1.53 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]21 [/td][td]DA Warner [/td][td]106 [/td][td]4343 [/td][td]43.43 [/td][td]96.55 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]82.27 [/td][td]33.40 [/td][td]1.17 [/td][td]1.30 [/td][td]1.53 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]22 [/td][td]CG Greenidge [/td][td]127 [/td][td]5130 [/td][td]45.40 [/td][td]64.90 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]65.92 [/td][td]29.32 [/td][td]0.98 [/td][td]1.55 [/td][td]1.52 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]23 [/td][td]AC Gilchrist [/td][td]282 [/td][td]9616 [/td][td]36.01 [/td][td]97.01 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]74.19 [/td][td]31.00 [/td][td]1.31 [/td][td]1.16 [/td][td]1.52 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]24 [/td][td]LRPL Taylor [/td][td]213 [/td][td]7853 [/td][td]47.88 [/td][td]83.14 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]80.81 [/td][td]32.84 [/td][td]1.03 [/td][td]1.46 [/td][td]1.50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]25 [/td][td]AJ Lamb [/td][td]122 [/td][td]4010 [/td][td]39.31 [/td][td]75.55 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]66.66 [/td][td]29.74 [/td][td]1.13 [/td][td]1.32 [/td][td]1.50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]26 [/td][td]SR Watson [/td][td]175 [/td][td]5620 [/td][td]41.32 [/td][td]90.41 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]78.37 [/td][td]32.03 [/td][td]1.15 [/td][td]1.29 [/td][td]1.49 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]27 [/td][td]Babar Azam [/td][td]58 [/td][td]2438 [/td][td]51.87 [/td][td]84.56 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]85.79 [/td][td]34.59 [/td][td]0.99 [/td][td]1.50 [/td][td]1.48 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]28 [/td][td]Saeed Anwar [/td][td]247 [/td][td]8824 [/td][td]39.22 [/td][td]80.67 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]71.00 [/td][td]30.68 [/td][td]1.14 [/td][td]1.28 [/td][td]1.45 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]29 [/td][td]RT Ponting [/td][td]373 [/td][td]13694 [/td][td]42.14 [/td][td]80.38 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]75.20 [/td][td]31.27 [/td][td]1.07 [/td][td]1.35 [/td][td]1.44 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]30 [/td][td]BC Lara [/td][td]298 [/td][td]10365 [/td][td]40.33 [/td][td]79.50 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]72.51 [/td][td]30.84 [/td][td]1.10 [/td][td]1.31 [/td][td]1.43 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]31 [/td][td]DR Martyn [/td][td]197 [/td][td]5235 [/td][td]41.22 [/td][td]77.25 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]72.23 [/td][td]30.75 [/td][td]1.07 [/td][td]1.34 [/td][td]1.43 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]32 [/td][td]KP Pietersen [/td][td]135 [/td][td]4424 [/td][td]40.96 [/td][td]86.64 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]77.89 [/td][td]31.82 [/td][td]1.11 [/td][td]1.29 [/td][td]1.43 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]33 [/td][td]Q de Kock [/td][td]100 [/td][td]4166 [/td][td]43.85 [/td][td]94.17 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]84.48 [/td][td]34.21 [/td][td]1.11 [/td][td]1.28 [/td][td]1.43 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]34 [/td][td]F du Plessis [/td][td]128 [/td][td]4798 [/td][td]45.26 [/td][td]88.46 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]83.24 [/td][td]33.81 [/td][td]1.06 [/td][td]1.34 [/td][td]1.42 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]35 [/td][td]Javed Miandad [/td][td]232 [/td][td]7381 [/td][td]41.70 [/td][td]67.01 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]66.95 [/td][td]29.73 [/td][td]1.00 [/td][td]1.40 [/td][td]1.40 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]36 [/td][td]DA Miller [/td][td]116 [/td][td]2831 [/td][td]38.26 [/td][td]101.76 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]82.59 [/td][td]33.61 [/td][td]1.23 [/td][td]1.14 [/td][td]1.40 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]37 [/td][td]MJ Clarke [/td][td]243 [/td][td]7981 [/td][td]44.59 [/td][td]78.99 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]78.53 [/td][td]32.05 [/td][td]1.01 [/td][td]1.39 [/td][td]1.40 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]38 [/td][td]MD Crowe [/td][td]142 [/td][td]4704 [/td][td]38.56 [/td][td]72.64 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]67.03 [/td][td]29.91 [/td][td]1.08 [/td][td]1.29 [/td][td]1.40 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]39 [/td][td]GJ Maxwell [/td][td]88 [/td][td]2298 [/td][td]32.83 [/td][td]121.46 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]83.91 [/td][td]34.09 [/td][td]1.45 [/td][td]0.96 [/td][td]1.39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]40 [/td][td]DS Lehmann [/td][td]115 [/td][td]3072 [/td][td]38.89 [/td][td]81.27 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]73.33 [/td][td]30.95 [/td][td]1.11 [/td][td]1.26 [/td][td]1.39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]41 [/td][td]ME Trescothick [/td][td]123 [/td][td]4335 [/td][td]37.37 [/td][td]85.22 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]74.03 [/td][td]30.93 [/td][td]1.15 [/td][td]1.21 [/td][td]1.39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]42 [/td][td]ME Waugh [/td][td]241 [/td][td]8494 [/td][td]39.32 [/td][td]76.91 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]70.84 [/td][td]30.78 [/td][td]1.09 [/td][td]1.28 [/td][td]1.39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]43 [/td][td]G Gambhir [/td][td]147 [/td][td]5238 [/td][td]39.68 [/td][td]85.25 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]77.28 [/td][td]31.60 [/td][td]1.10 [/td][td]1.26 [/td][td]1.39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]44 [/td][td]NH Fairbrother [/td][td]73 [/td][td]2075 [/td][td]40.69 [/td][td]72.25 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]69.68 [/td][td]30.53 [/td][td]1.04 [/td][td]1.33 [/td][td]1.38 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]45 [/td][td]KS Williamson [/td][td]133 [/td][td]5428 [/td][td]46.00 [/td][td]83.20 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]82.59 [/td][td]33.61 [/td][td]1.01 [/td][td]1.37 [/td][td]1.38 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]46 [/td][td]WJ Cronje [/td][td]186 [/td][td]5565 [/td][td]38.65 [/td][td]76.47 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]70.46 [/td][td]30.57 [/td][td]1.09 [/td][td]1.26 [/td][td]1.37 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]47 [/td][td]TM Dilshan [/td][td]325 [/td][td]10259 [/td][td]39.16 [/td][td]86.09 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]77.53 [/td][td]31.90 [/td][td]1.11 [/td][td]1.23 [/td][td]1.36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]48 [/td][td]JH Kallis [/td][td]326 [/td][td]11578 [/td][td]44.53 [/td][td]72.90 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]75.99 [/td][td]31.53 [/td][td]0.96 [/td][td]1.41 [/td][td]1.35 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]49 [/td][td]SC Ganguly [/td][td]310 [/td][td]11352 [/td][td]40.98 [/td][td]73.68 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]72.78 [/td][td]30.88 [/td][td]1.01 [/td][td]1.33 [/td][td]1.34 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]50 [/td][td]RR Sarwan [/td][td]179 [/td][td]5792 [/td][td]42.90 [/td][td]75.70 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]76.53 [/td][td]31.59 [/td][td]0.99 [/td][td]1.36 [/td][td]1.34 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

If Kohli has another stinker in the WC and goes missing again when India need him, where are you going to rank him? Or are you another of those fans who was saying he's not top 3 three weeks back and has changed their mind because he scored 100s against Bangladesh in a dead rubber and a minnow level SL team.

I can see Kohli bombing out another WC and every Indian fan abusing him, only to start calling him GOAT after he scores 3 100s in a 5 match series against WI.

Just like Ronaldo fans. Shameless lot.

Another stinker?
He averaged 50+ in both 15 and 19 world cup, how is that a failure, maybe according to the standards he has set fpr himself every thing below 60+ avg is a failure, Btw he averages more than Sachin in world cup.

Yes he had bad knockouts in both world cup, on that note I agree with you, he needs a good knockout game.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

My Rating is

VIV
daylight
Sachin
Kohli
AbDev
Ponting
Dhoni

Three Indians among top 6, also Sharma should be there in top 10

Viv was something else, only if Kohli can produce a great performance in a world cup victory, I will rate him equal to Viv.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Remove SRT from that list.
His grand total in two wc finals is 2 runs.


He almost ended up the career without winning a single trophy, Luckily MSD and Young team lifted the trophy.

 

[Bhaijaan]

1. Tendulkar
2. Kohli
3. Richards
4. Ponting

It really should be Kohli but him not having dominated a World Cup yet goes against him in the ultimate battle vs Tendulkar in ODIs. Tendulkar has dominated an unprecedented ODI world cups and in the other 3, he played as a 19 year old in one of them, in 1999 his fathers death occurred in the middle of the tournament he still came back to have a decent tournament but not as per his standards and in 2007 India for knocked out in 3 matches.

If Virat dominates the 2023 World Cup, there’s going to be a debate.


MS Dhoni is absolutely in this conversation btw, surprised he’s not mentioned in OP. A top 3 or definitely 5 level player.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Ponting - 3 WC's
Viv Richards - 2 WC's
Sachin Tendulkar - 1 WC
Virat Kohli - 1 WC

Clearly Ponting and VIv are winners. I will pick ponting.

Coming to modern day cricket
Dhoni (1 WC + 1 CT + 1 T20 WC)
Kohli ( 1 WC + 1 CT + Two times MOT in T20 WC)
Stokes ( 1 WC + 1 T20 WC)

Kohli is modern day legend

 

[Cover Drive Six]

MSD won more trophies than SRT and played a crucial knock is wc final.

 

[Robert]

Some of the users so jealous seeing Kohli, Srt , that they put inferior Ricky ponting in list so they can have name in list to bank upon, Viv Richards were failure Against Against express pace bowlers like lily

In ODIs?

Averaged 50 against Australia, 58 against Willis’ England, 54 against Hadlee’s NZ. Only 30 against Pakistan, but he did get eight fifties at s/r 90 and I bet he mostly got out to Qadir.

Then there was his excellent career in Packer cricket against all the top quicks.

 

[Ami]

Watched em all play...
Richards. No doubt.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kohli is the GOAT ODI batsman. He is the only top order batsman in history who is also an extraordinary finisher.

In 50+ years of ODI cricket, we have seen many great top-order players & finishers, but Kohli is the only individual batsman who has successfully combined both roles.

He is essentially Tendulkar + Dhoni & Ponting + Bevan rolled into one.

He has redefined the art of chasing & is a better chaser than every other batsman in history put together.

People talk about his failures in a few big games. What failures? His so-called failures tower over the success of other batsmen.

He has done in the ODI format what no one before him could & what no one else after him will.

Winning trophies etc. depends on a lot of variables not just the performance one individual player.

Gilchrist is remembered for being the only batsman in ODI history to score three 50+ scores in World Cup finals.

What people do not remember is that Gilchrist played 7 ODI semifinals in his career & failed in every single one of them & yet, his team still carried him into the final on 6 occasions.

This is the luxury you have when you play for a legendary team. There is little dependency on one individual player.

Kohli’s India would never win 6 out 7 semifinals if he fails. This is why when Kohli failed in 2015 & 2019, India were unable to carry him to the final & give him a shot at redemption like Australia did with Gilchrist.

We are talking about Ponting’s World Cup haul while he was playing for - and leading - a team that won the 2003 World Cup without Shane Warne.

Pound for pound, Kohli is a better ODI batsman than Tendulkar & Ponting. There is nothing they could do that Kohli cannot as far as individual batting skills are concerned, but he can do stuff and he has done stuff they were never capable of.

One could make a strong case for Viv because his combination of average & SR was unheard of in his time & he played some of the greatest knocks in ODI history, but if you micro-analyze you will find holes in every career.

The two best bowling attacks during Richards’ career were that of West Indies & Pakistan.

He never played the West Indies bowlers in international cricket & the best he could face were Pakistan’s bowlers.

He averaged 30 against Pakistan with 0 hundreds in 39 ODI innings.

The moral of the story is that you can make anyone look bad if you cherry-pick certain aspects of a career because apart from maybe McGrath, you will not find a flawless record anywhere.

Without talking about whether Kohli is GOAT or not i am in full agreement with your point about what a massive it is advantage to be part of an ATG team. It is comical to suggest one guy won a world cup when they are part of a fantastic ODI side who could notch 34 world cup wins in a row. That is why i brought the hypothesis. Just switch ABDV with Punter. ABDV would have had 3 trophies in his cabinet now. Punter with 0. Don't want to go there. But let me go there anyway. Ronaldo vs Messi argument continues on. And ofcourse Messi was called a GOAT long back even before world cup win. This win will only add more points that's it. He was already a GOAT in the minds of lot of people.

 

[jnaveen1980]

In ODIs?

Averaged 50 against Australia, 58 against Willis’ England, 54 against Hadlee’s NZ. Only 30 against Pakistan, but he did get eight fifties at s/r 90 and I bet he mostly got out to Qadir.

Then there was his excellent career in Packer cricket against all the top quicks.

VIv Richards was a pioneer in this format when no one knew how to play a ODI cricket. Mike Brearely and Boycott added 129 runs for opening wicket in 39 overs chasing 286. I think Lloyd put down Boycott's catch on purpose. basically leaving others to score 157 runs in 21 overs!! England imploded for 194. People had no concept of how to approach this format atleast in the first 2 world cups. 1983 was the world cup where teams had an idea. Going into the final India had beat West indies 2-1 in their previous 3 encounters. Final was the third win in 4 encounters. INdia started believing they could beat West Indies. Lot of peple talk about his 138 in the final where Collis King made 86 in 66. But his best ODI innings was not that. His 189 against ENgland. He added like 106 for the last wicket or 9th wicket with Holding. That innings was a legendary knock. Being a trendsetter Richards is definitely a contender for GOAT. He stood way above his peers in that era. Tendulkar in the 90s. Some of them spilled over into 2000s as well. Kohli definitely 2010s. Punter was largely a stat padder. ABDV should have been in this list. Poor guy could never be part of world cup win squad. Astonishingly ABDV was never part of an IPL trophy either. It is just one of those things i suppose. In terms of pure batsmanship ABDV is right up there.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Viv followed by Kohli.

 

[Kraetoz]

Without talking about whether Kohli is GOAT or not i am in full agreement with your point about what a massive it is advantage to be part of an ATG team. It is comical to suggest one guy won a world cup when they are part of a fantastic ODI side who could notch 34 world cup wins in a row. That is why i brought the hypothesis. Just switch ABDV with Punter. ABDV would have had 3 trophies in his cabinet now. Punter with 0. Don't want to go there. But let me go there anyway. Ronaldo vs Messi argument continues on. And ofcourse Messi was called a GOAT long back even before world cup win. This win will only add more points that's it. He was already a GOAT in the minds of lot of people.

If Punter was playing for South Africa as a captain they would have won 3 world cups too not the other way around.

Dhoni has won world t20 and world cup with bowlers like Zaheer Khan, Munaf Patel, Yuvraj Singh, Joginder Sharma, Sreesanth, RP Singh. All pretty average except, only ZAK and Harbhajjan were good if you compare with the attack India has had in the past. Replace Dhoni with Sanga in that 2011 final and India would have a world cup less.

 

[Mirpuri Don]

I think it’s between Viv and Kohli for me, the former mainly because he was so much ahead against all others during his days (If I’m not wrong only Zaheer Abbas was close but was few years older so didn’t play as much).

I’ve seen Ponting play but don’t know why he just doesn’t inspire me like Kohli, in fact I’d put even ABdV ahead, just my perception.

Sachin at 3 for the same reason as Viv, basically just how much he was ahead of everyone else during the ‘90s, when ODI fast bowling was at its peak with the two Ws, Ambrose, etc (and there too there was a Pakistani closely following him, Saeed Anwar, but the ‘2000s of course created a definitive gulf in favor of SRT).

 

[jnaveen1980]

If Punter was playing for South Africa as a captain they would have won 3 world cups too not the other way around.

Dhoni has won world t20 and world cup with bowlers like Zaheer Khan, Munaf Patel, Yuvraj Singh, Joginder Sharma, Sreesanth, RP Singh. All pretty average except, only ZAK and Harbhajjan were good if you compare with the attack India has had in the past. Replace Dhoni with Sanga in that 2011 final and India would have a world cup less.

Not really. Australian side was a far superior side to everyone else with or without him. Yes Sanga would have won had he captained that side. India had several great players. You have a bunch of weak players and you want a captain to win tournament with them i would pick Dhoni. He is a master of managing weak team. Lot of times CSK was a very very weak team in comparison. He could mould it into a winning team with literally any player.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think it’s between Viv and Kohli for me, the former mainly because he was so much ahead against all others during his days (If I’m not wrong only Zaheer Abbas was close but was few years older so didn’t play as much).

I’ve seen Ponting play but don’t know why he just doesn’t inspire me like Kohli, in fact I’d put even ABdV ahead, just my perception.

Sachin at 3 for the same reason as Viv, basically just how much he was ahead of everyone else during the ‘90s, when ODI fast bowling was at its peak with the two Ws, Ambrose, etc (and there too there was a Pakistani closely following him, Saeed Anwar, but the ‘2000s of course created a definitive gulf in favor of SRT).

Because Punter was a tuktuker for long period. Even at his very best he was just accumulator. Kohli can be absolutely dominating and devastating. A pure joy to watch at his very best. A reason why Gambhir put Rohit sharma above Punter in his recent interview. There was a brief period so many players stat padded min the mid 2000s i think. Punter scored boat load of runs around that time.

 

[Kraetoz]

And ofcourse Messi was called a GOAT long back even before world cup win. This win will only add more points that's it. He was already a GOAT in the minds of lot of people.

"This win" is the stamp, a certification to be truly called a GOAT otherwise he was behind Maradona in the GOAT debate in his own country.

 

[jnaveen1980]

"This win" is the stamp, a certification to be truly called a GOAT otherwise he was behind Maradona in the GOAT debate in his own country.

It is still not unianomous. Ronaldo fans are never going to agree. Same way Messi fans considered him a GOAT long back. I very much doubt there are any new entrants to the club. Most of them already considered him a GOAT. They just use this as an argument now.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Ponting then Kohli. If Kohli can win this WC then he'll be undisputed.

SRT and Viv are wonderful but not the same impact as Punter and Kohli.

 

[Mamoon]

Ponting played 10 World Cup knockout matches in his career. Everyone knows what he did in 2003 final, but let’s analyze his performance in the other knockout matches.

1996 QF: 31 runs, Australia won

1996 SF: 15 ball duck, Australia won

1996 Final: 45 runs, Sri Lanka won

1999 SF: 37 runs, Australia won

1999 Final: 24 runs, Australia won

2003 SF: 2 runs, Australia won

2007 SF: 22 runs, Australia won

2007 Final: 37 runs, Australia won

2011 QF: 104 runs, Australia lost

Ponting averaged 21.5 in the 6 World Cup quarterfinals & semifinals that Australia won

If Ponting played for a lesser team, he might never have had the opportunity to play the 2003 final after he scored 2 (8) in the semifinal against Sri Lanka.

When your team is so strong that they can carry you over the line in World Cup knockouts on 6 occasions where you flop big time, you are bound to produce 1-2 great knocks at some point.

This is why this trophy count argument is absolute nonsense. Ponting & Gilchrist choked numerous times in World Cups but it was Warne & McGrath that bailed them out time & time again & gave them the opportunity to make amends.

When your team enables you to play a dozen World Cup knockout matches you will inevitably perform in 1-2 matches.

 

[Shafi]

1. Viv
2. SRT
3. Kohli
4. Ponting

Kohli no. 3??? On what basis Tendulqar is ahead of him? If Kohli was selfish like Tendulqar he would have 80+ average in ODI.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ponting played 10 World Cup knockout matches in his career. Everyone knows what he did in 2003 final, but let’s analyze his performance in the other knockout matches.

1996 QF: 31 runs, Australia won

1996 SF: 15 ball duck, Australia won

1996 Final: 45 runs, Sri Lanka won

1999 SF: 37 runs, Australia won

1999 Final: 24 runs, Australia won

2003 SF: 2 runs, Australia won

2007 SF: 22 runs, Australia won

2007 Final: 37 runs, Australia won

2011 QF: 104 runs, Australia lost

Ponting averaged 21.5 in the 6 World Cup quarterfinals & semifinals that Australia won

If Ponting played for a lesser team, he might never have had the opportunity to play the 2003 final after he scored 2 (8) in the semifinal against Sri Lanka.

When your team is so strong that they can carry you over the line in World Cup knockouts on 6 occasions where you flop big time, you are bound to produce 1-2 great knocks at some point.

This is why this trophy count argument is absolute nonsense. Ponting & Gilchrist choked numerous times in World Cups but it was Warne & McGrath that bailed them out time & time again & gave them the opportunity to make amends.

When your team enables you to play a dozen World Cup knockout matches you will inevitably perform in 1-2 matches.

Couldn't have put it better. Being part of an ATG sides gives you that luxury. 2003 final India's decision to bowl first was purely to negate Brett Lee nothing else as Brett Lee was in red hot form. Even while chasing even after Sachin got out cheaply India was 147/2 in 23 overs. It was an absolute road. If Martyn had come ahead of Punter we would have seen Damien martyn being 140 not out.

 

[JaDed]

If it was Mcgrath,Warne vs Pointing .. the former 2 will win.

Ricky is still great just that he was lucky never to face Mcgrath and Warne.

 

[Robert]

But his best ODI innings was not that. His 189 against ENgland. He added like 106 for the last wicket or 9th wicket with Holding. That innings was a legendary knock.

I watched it on live telly.

Four-six-four-single he’d go, then Holding would go block-block and Richard was on strike again.

On and on it went. I had seen Gooch, and Gower, and Border, and Botham, Imran, Kapil… then this guy. It was like a god was taking strike.

He chased a perfect Botham’s banana outswinger and hit it through midwicket for four. Nobody else could do that back then.

 

[TheSultan]

The 189 was the greatest ODI innings ever - period. I remember watching that live on TV too. It was literally Viv Vs England - England were bundled out for 168

 

[jnaveen1980]

I watched it on live telly.

Four-six-four-single he’d go, then Holding would go block-block and Richard was on strike again.

On and on it went. I had seen Gooch, and Gower, and Border, and Botham, Imran, Kapil… then this guy. It was like a god was taking strike.

He chased a perfect Botham’s banana outswinger and hit it through midwicket for four. Nobody else could do that back then.

Then there was an innings where Gordon Greenidge and VIv made mincemeat of bowling adding like 226 runs in 26 overs. Viv Made 149 runs ni 99 balls. Those are all memorable knocks.

 

[Buffet]

Ponting was a very good batsman, but I don't think he belongs in the list of top 3 best ever discussion.

He averaged 41 and SR of 80. A good record, but nothing great about it to elevate him to top 3 best ever position.

To put it in perspective, he played from 1995-2012, in the exact same years,

1) SRT Avg 46 & SR 87
2) Dhoni Avg 52 & SR 88



Forget about others, just in Aus

1) Gilly - Avg 35 & SR 96
2) Clarke - Avg Avg 45 & SR 78


Ponting didn't stand out enough to get into this discussion. Even in WC's , he has avg of 45 and SR of below 80. Hardly earth shattering.

Now if we start making a list of batsmen who scored big knock's in WC finals, then he will feature, but list is about career in ODI. 1-2 match is just a tiny part of career.

Dhoni and Jaya, both played well in WC final, one is remembered more due to being in winning team. But when all said and one, Dhoni or Jaya are not rated based on that knock. They are rated vastly different based on their career performance. Now things are changing a bit, but all teams used to play ODI series with full team and play seriously.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Without talking about whether Kohli is GOAT or not i am in full agreement with your point about what a massive it is advantage to be part of an ATG team. It is comical to suggest one guy won a world cup when they are part of a fantastic ODI side who could notch 34 world cup wins in a row. That is why i brought the hypothesis. Just switch ABDV with Punter. ABDV would have had 3 trophies in his cabinet now. Punter with 0. Don't want to go there. But let me go there anyway. Ronaldo vs Messi argument continues on. And ofcourse Messi was called a GOAT long back even before world cup win. This win will only add more points that's it. He was already a GOAT in the minds of lot of people.

You have a point but why don't people use this logic when they compare Babar Azam with Kohli? Kohli was part of a team which had guys like Dhawan, Rohit, Dhoni, wan't that an advantage too?

 

[Sidilicious]

You have a point but why don't people use this logic when they compare Babar Azam with Kohli? Kohli was part of a team which had guys like Dhawan, Rohit, Dhoni, wan't that an advantage too?

But Babar is rated one of the best ODi bat of these days. He obviously is not in the league of peak Kohli due to his lack of 5th gear, but even Indians call him the best ODI bat ATM.

 

[jnaveen1980]

You have a point but why don't people use this logic when they compare Babar Azam with Kohli? Kohli was part of a team which had guys like Dhawan, Rohit, Dhoni, wan't that an advantage too?

India is not an ATG side for one thing. Second thing is why is even Babar being discussed with such a low sample. As you can see Kohli is closer to GOAT status. Babar is not even the best ODI player produced by Pakistan yet.

 

[Technics 1210]

Ponting played 10 World Cup knockout matches in his career. Everyone knows what he did in 2003 final, but let’s analyze his performance in the other knockout matches.

1996 QF: 31 runs, Australia won

1996 SF: 15 ball duck, Australia won

1996 Final: 45 runs, Sri Lanka won

1999 SF: 37 runs, Australia won

1999 Final: 24 runs, Australia won

2003 SF: 2 runs, Australia won

2007 SF: 22 runs, Australia won

2007 Final: 37 runs, Australia won

2011 QF: 104 runs, Australia lost

Ponting averaged 21.5 in the 6 World Cup quarterfinals & semifinals that Australia won

If Ponting played for a lesser team, he might never have had the opportunity to play the 2003 final after he scored 2 (8) in the semifinal against Sri Lanka.

When your team is so strong that they can carry you over the line in World Cup knockouts on 6 occasions where you flop big time, you are bound to produce 1-2 great knocks at some point.

This is why this trophy count argument is absolute nonsense. Ponting & Gilchrist choked numerous times in World Cups but it was Warne & McGrath that bailed them out time & time again & gave them the opportunity to make amends.

When your team enables you to play a dozen World Cup knockout matches you will inevitably perform in 1-2 matches.

Typical pigeon holing; not an analysis.

If you are going to compare silverware stats, then compare the entire runs scored in a tournament, otherwise, Sachinistas can kiss his MOTS award in 2003 goodbye.

Ponting's stats in World Cups:

Innings: 42
Not Outs: 4
Aggregate: 1743
Highest Score: 140*
Average: 45.87
50s: 6
100s: 5
Ducks: 1
Scoring Rate 79.95
Catches: 28


Lets not even go into Ponting's captaincy stats in the World Cup, he'd wipe the floor with everyone else.

 

[Technics 1210]

Here's my pigeon holing analysis, forget WC SF and QF, lets talk about the WC Finals.

Aggregate runs scored in an ODI World Cup final:

Ponting : 240 [3 finals]
Viv : 176 [3 finals]
Kohli : 35 [1 final]
Tendulkar : 23 [2 finals!]

Both Kohli and Tendulkar are the most hyped players in ICC tournament history.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Dhoni > Everyone .Averaging infinity in the ICC final

 

[Ab Fan]

Here's my pigeon holing analysis, forget WC SF and QF, lets talk about the WC Finals.

Aggregate runs scored in an ODI World Cup final:

Ponting : 240 [3 finals]
Viv : 176 [3 finals]
Kohli : 35 [1 final]
Tendulkar : 23 [2 finals!]

Both Kohli and Tendulkar are the most hyped players in ICC tournament history.

Any reason for forgetting WC SF and QF? You need to win them first to go to finals.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Viv
Kohli
Bevan
SRT

 

[Technics 1210]

Any reason for forgetting WC SF and QF? You need to win them first to go to finals.

EXACTLY! That's why I mentioned I am pigeon holing too after Mamoon presented his QF and SF stats, which you did not respond to as you are now when I have shown Kohli and Tendulkar to be abject failures in World Cup final matches. I wonder why!?

Stats across the entire tournament matter, not selective matches - I hope you have understood the lesson here.

 

[JaDed]

Dhoni > Everyone .Averaging infinity in the ICC final

he might as well be who chased that score before him?

I still remember Lankans celebrating after making that total almost like they have done 80%..

 

[Mamoon]

Typical pigeon holing; not an analysis.

If you are going to compare silverware stats, then compare the entire runs scored in a tournament, otherwise, Sachinistas can kiss his MOTS award in 2003 goodbye.

Ponting's stats in World Cups:

Innings: 42
Not Outs: 4
Aggregate: 1743
Highest Score: 140*
Average: 45.87
50s: 6
100s: 5
Ducks: 1
Scoring Rate 79.95
Catches: 28


Lets not even go into Ponting's captaincy stats in the World Cup, he'd wipe the floor with everyone else.

This is a load of nonsense but expected from you.

Aggregate runs depends on how many matches you play.

Ponting’s aggregate tally has more to do with how strong his team was (hence the great number of matches) than how good he was.

As I showed above, he averaged 21.5 in all the World Cup quarter finals & semifinals that Australia won which means that he got to play the finals because he had a strong team.

Ponting scored 140* in the 2003 final, but he would not have played the final in the first place if he didn’t have such a strong team.

In fact, he didn’t deserve to play the final after scoring 2 in 8 balls in the semifinal against Sri Lanka.

By highlighting the aggregate tally, you are simply proving my point. The overall strength of your team plays a massive role in how many aggregate runs you score in tournaments & how many chances you to get make amends.

Ponting got infinite chances to make up for his failures in semifinals & it is not surprising to see a player of his class make amends at one point.

Give so many chances to Kohli & he will also produce a stellar final knock at some point.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kenya owns Punter lol 3 matches just 60 runs at a strike rate of 62.50 lol in the world cup

 

[Technics 1210]

This is a load of nonsense but expected from you.

No what is a load nonsense was your pigeon holing attempt to discredit Ponting to the extent that you had to exclude WC finals, and overall WC tournament performances. You know it, I know it, and every man and his dog knows it.

As for infinite chances, Tendulkar had 6 attempts at the World Cup, this is how delusional and undermining your reasoning is. Go on, I dare you to mention Tendulkar was the highest scorer in 2003 WC, and has the best WC run aggregate score in Worlds Cup tournaments.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Punter has such an appalling strike rate for a GOAT contender both in world cups and career. 79 in world cups. Better than Kallis. I will give you that. Aravinda De silva who played two crunch knock out matches has a st rike rate of 86. He played in a different era. In terms of pure batsmanship Punter is not even the same stratosphere of ABDV.

 

[Rana]

For me it’s Ponting

What a player he was!

 

[Technics 1210]

Top Kohli ODI run chases as voted by his fans:

133* (86) vs Sri Lanka - Hobart - 2012
183 (148) vs Pakistan - Dhaka - 2012
139 (126) vs Sri Lanka - Ranchi - 2014
140 (107) vs West Indies - Guwahati - 2018

Yup, feasting on the weak (Yes I know Pakistan is in the list).

On the bright side, Kohli's ODI centuries above dwarf the 4 ODI centuries Tendulkar scored against the mighty Kenya, with a complimentary ODI century vs Namibia for good measure.

 

[dravidthewall]

Top Kohli ODI run chases as voted by his fans:

133* (86) vs Sri Lanka - Hobart - 2012
183 (148) vs Pakistan - Dhaka - 2012
139 (126) vs Sri Lanka - Ranchi - 2014
140 (107) vs West Indies - Guwahati - 2018

Yup, feasting on the weak (Yes I know Pakistan is in the list).

On the bright side, Kohli's ODI centuries above dwarf the 4 ODI centuries Tendulkar scored against the mighty Kenya, with a complimentary ODI century vs Namibia for good measure.

Where is that knock when kohli chased 370 against australia

 

[dravidthewall]

360 chased against australia ..kohli 52 ball century with 7 sixes

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Kohli is the GOAT ODI batsman. He is the only top order batsman in history who is also an extraordinary finisher.

In 50+ years of ODI cricket, we have seen many great top-order players & finishers, but Kohli is the only individual batsman who has successfully combined both roles.

He is essentially Tendulkar + Dhoni & Ponting + Bevan rolled into one.

He has redefined the art of chasing & is a better chaser than every other batsman in history put together.

People talk about his failures in a few big games. What failures? His so-called failures tower over the success of other batsmen.

He has done in the ODI format what no one before him could & what no one else after him will.

Winning trophies etc. depends on a lot of variables not just the performance one individual player.

Gilchrist is remembered for being the only batsman in ODI history to score three 50+ scores in World Cup finals.

What people do not remember is that Gilchrist played 7 ODI semifinals in his career & failed in every single one of them & yet, his team still carried him into the final on 6 occasions.

This is the luxury you have when you play for a legendary team. There is little dependency on one individual player.

Kohli’s India would never win 6 out 7 semifinals if he fails. This is why when Kohli failed in 2015 & 2019, India were unable to carry him to the final & give him a shot at redemption like Australia did with Gilchrist.

We are talking about Ponting’s World Cup haul while he was playing for - and leading - a team that won the 2003 World Cup without Shane Warne.

Pound for pound, Kohli is a better ODI batsman than Tendulkar & Ponting. There is nothing they could do that Kohli cannot as far as individual batting skills are concerned, but he can do stuff and he has done stuff they were never capable of.

One could make a strong case for Viv because his combination of average & SR was unheard of in his time & he played some of the greatest knocks in ODI history, but if you micro-analyze you will find holes in every career.

The two best bowling attacks during Richards’ career were that of West Indies & Pakistan.

He never played the West Indies bowlers in international cricket & the best he could face were Pakistan’s bowlers.

He averaged 30 against Pakistan with 0 hundreds in 39 ODI innings.

The moral of the story is that you can make anyone look bad if you cherry-pick certain aspects of a career because apart from maybe McGrath, you will not find a flawless record anywhere.

As stated earlier - and not trying to take away anything from Kohli. He is indeed one of the greatest ODI player of current time. And perhaps my favorite Indian player.

However, give Kohli a paper thin bat, in an 80 meters boundary and make him play without a helmet on pitches that do not get covered overnight in an era when pace bowlers were fresh and energetic before every game since they played a lot less cricket, and there were no free-hit rules and no restrictions on the bouncers, and then make him play against the Hadlees, and Lilliees and Thmpsons, and Bothams and Imrans - and Kohli will stand a lot of a chance.

Fact of the matter is, by the time Kohli arrived on the scene, the game dynamics had been drastically changed in favor of the batsmen. Kohli definitely had God given extra ordinary talent and skill, supported by sheer hard work that made him stood apart and made him stand on the helm. However, Kohli is like a "farmy chooza" instead of an organic "Desi murghi" when you compare him with Viv.

One is raised on the farm, the other was raised in the backyard of a mud hut.

There is no comparison between the two.

 

[Ab Fan]

ABDV 54, 101 vs Ponting 42, 80

Do your maths, which is better?

 

[Aseem_04]

Kohli > Viv Richards>Abdv
I don't even consider ricky ponting in that list, he's far inferior to all of these, Abysmal strike rate and just 42 average even in that all time greatest team,
And if wc final performance all matter Than t20 wc 2007 hero Joginder sharma is better than all pak bowlers except,Wasim akram

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I am a huge Kohli and Sachin fan.. And I have seen Viv play only in highlights etc as I started watching cricket from 1996 year onwards.
But.. Viv Richards is the GOAT ODI batter. There is no question about it. No one even comes closer to the fear he put into bowlers, even without any protective gear.
He was and will remain the Greatest of All Time.