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Viv Richards vs Virat Kohli vs Sachin Tendulkar vs Ricky Ponting - Who is the GOAT in ODIs?

No what is a load nonsense was your pigeon holing attempt to discredit Ponting to the extent that you had to exclude WC finals, and overall WC tournament performances. You know it, I know it, and every man and his dog knows it.

As for infinite chances, Tendulkar had 6 attempts at the World Cup, this is how delusional and undermining your reasoning is. Go on, I dare you to mention Tendulkar was the highest scorer in 2003 WC, and has the best WC run aggregate score in Worlds Cup tournaments.

The reason why I excluded the 2003 World Cup final is because you have to win the semifinals to get to the finals.

Ponting averages 21.5 in the semifinals that Australia won, which means he was carried over by his teammates to the final. If his team wasn’t so strong, he would not have played the 2003 World Cup final in the first place.

That is the whole point. How many matches you play in World Cups & what your trophy count is depends more on how strong your team is than how good you are.
 
The reason why I excluded the 2003 World Cup final is because you have to win the semifinals to get to the finals.

Ponting averages 21.5 in the semifinals that Australia won, which means he was carried over by his teammates to the final. If his team wasn’t so strong, he would not have played the 2003 World Cup final in the first place.

That is the whole point. How many matches you play in World Cups & what your trophy count is depends more on how strong your team is than how good you are.

Yes you have to win the SF to get to the final, and in 2003, Ponting did just that, as captain, this is the point too, and remember, Warne and Bevan were not playing in the 2003 WC.

And to even get to the final, a team has to qualify, hence performances pre knock out stages are equally important.
 
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As stated earlier - and not trying to take away anything from Kohli. He is indeed one of the greatest ODI player of current time. And perhaps my favorite Indian player.

However, give Kohli a paper thin bat, in an 80 meters boundary and make him play without a helmet on pitches that do not get covered overnight in an era when pace bowlers were fresh and energetic before every game since they played a lot less cricket, and there were no free-hit rules and no restrictions on the bouncers, and then make him play against the Hadlees, and Lilliees and Thmpsons, and Bothams and Imrans - and Kohli will stand a lot of a chance.

Fact of the matter is, by the time Kohli arrived on the scene, the game dynamics had been drastically changed in favor of the batsmen. Kohli definitely had God given extra ordinary talent and skill, supported by sheer hard work that made him stood apart and made him stand on the helm. However, Kohli is like a "farmy chooza" instead of an organic "Desi murghi" when you compare him with Viv.

One is raised on the farm, the other was raised in the backyard of a mud hut.

There is no comparison between the two.

You are not saying anything original here. People have made this logically fallacious argument countless times & they are not prepared to apply the reverse logic because it is inconvenient.

If Kohli & other legendary modern batsman cannot be compared to the great batsmen of the 70’s & 80’s because of better pitches, smaller boundaries, better helmets, better bats, batting-friendly rules, then the same logic applies to the bowlers as well.

I am ready to accept your nonsense argument if you are ready to apply the reverse logic.

The reverse logic is that the likes of Lillee, Thompson, Marshall, Holding, Imran, Wasim etc. are not comparable to Starc, Cummins, Rabada, Shaheen, Bumrah, Boult, Hazlewood etc. because those old era bowlers played in an era where bats were thin, boundaries were huge, pitches were better for bowlers, helmets were not durable, rules were not batting-friendly.

You cannot have it both ways. If you have to discredit Kohli & other modern batsmen for XYZ reasons then you have to discredit the old era bowlers for the same XYZ reasons.

Great players are great in every era. They have qualities that make them stand out. Viv would be Viv in any era & Kohli would be Kohli in any era, but if you are going to come with a nonsense argument to prove otherwise then please apply it consistently.
 
Yes you have to win the SF to get to the final, and in 2003, Ponting did just that, as captain, this is the point too, and remember, Warne and Bevan were not playing in the 2003 WC.

So now the debate has shifted to captaincy?

This thread is not about who the better captain was. This is purely about who the better ODI batsman was.

The fact that Australia won the 2003 World Cup without Bevan & Warne proves how great they were. During the early 2000’s, they had enough depth to field two world class sides together.

Ponting won a lot as captain, but it is always difficult to judge captaincy in isolation when your team is so superior. It is like judging a newly appointed Pakistani captain based on a Test series at home vs Zimbabwe. Pakistan will win regardless of who is captain.

Australia won so much not because of Ponting’s captaincy but because he just happened to be the captain of the side. It could have been Gilchrist or Warne & the results would have been the same.

When Ponting took over from Steve Waugh, he did not make any changes to the team in terms of how they played. It was simply a continuation of their dominance that started in 1999-2000.

When the stalwarts retired & things changed in 2007-08, Ponting’s struggled as captain until he resigned in 2011. If he was the master tactician behind Australia’s dominance in the 2000s, he would have proved his captaincy acumen in those three years after the team changed.

Ponting’s captaincy was as irrelevant to Australia’s success as Buchanan’s coaching.
 
So now the debate has shifted to captaincy?

Pay attention dear boy, read my first reply in this thread. I clearly mentioned Silverware, Captaincy, and ODI career stats all contribute to an ODI GOAT candidate.

Pay Attention or do not reply to me at all.

For the record, Captaincy isn't easy, even with ATG ODI teams. Viv failed to win a WC while captain, Tendulkar was an abject failure as captain, and your boy Kohli, also failed to win any silverware as Captain of the so called greatest Asian side of this era (your words).
 
A few members don't want to credit india and its players with anything, not that their certification matters. But it exposes their bitter wishes of india not getting anything cause their own team is in a sorry state since long. Prepared to support anyone just to discredit india.

Would be funny to watch these people if india wins a trophy in the near future. Their only argument will be struck down 😂
 
What's funny is Indians are the first to claim Dhoni is the best ever Asian captain because he has won the WC, CT, and WT20 as captain, yet in this thread same Indians are desperately trying to undermine silverware because they know deep down Indian GOAT candidates have pittance to show for it.

Ponting has 5 ODI Trophies. 3 WCs (2 as captain), and 2 CTs (both as captain), and his last trophy as captain was in 2009 with what was one of the weakest Australian teams.

If Tendulkar or Kohli had 3 WC wins, even as players and not as captains, Indians would be screaming till they turn blue, instead they have nothing other than SR/AVG in bilateral series.

You can bet if Kohli wins the WC 2023, Indians will come out in their droves and claim Kohli is a certified GOAT, now.
 
The 70s vs today debate is so annoying always , people can just analyse their batting styles and bowling styles and come to conclusions.

Kohli would still be a Godly Batsmen in the 70s and 80s , granted he won't average 55 at peak but would average still 51-52 , though his terminal decline this time would be significantly more......severe , I see his average in such an era falling to 45-46 if he bats like this for years.

Viv today would be monstrous , unlike the 80s where Viv seemed very unintrested , a windies who need Viv would force Viv to always go all out as well as considering the quality of bowlers and difficulty compared to those days , I can see him averaging 56-60 with 80+ SR , so In the GOAT echelon.

someone like Javed M wouldn't have his 57 average today either for a plethora of reasons, same way Babar Azam would be lucky to even average 45 in 70s and 80s.

it depends on the player , raw numbers isn't a good source for how players would do in different eras.
 
What's funny is Indians are the first to claim Dhoni is the best ever Asian captain because he has won the WC, CT, and WT20 as captain, yet in this thread same Indians are desperately trying to undermine silverware because they know deep down Indian GOAT candidates have pittance to show for it.

Ponting has 5 ODI Trophies. 3 WCs (2 as captain), and 2 CTs (both as captain), and his last trophy as captain was in 2009 with what was one of the weakest Australian teams.

If Tendulkar or Kohli had 3 WC wins, even as players and not as captains, Indians would be screaming till they turn blue, instead they have nothing other than SR/AVG in bilateral series.

You can bet if Kohli wins the WC 2023, Indians will come out in their droves and claim Kohli is a certified GOAT, now.

Stick to the topic. Clearly asked who is the best batsman of all time in ODIs. No reason to bring in captaincy, fielding, or what temperature they set the thermostat to.
 
Stick to the topic. Clearly asked who is the best batsman of all time in ODIs. No reason to bring in captaincy, fielding, or what temperature they set the thermostat to.

You asked who is the GOAT in ODI, not who is the best batsman of all time in ODIs.

Read your own OP, I pasted it below. You didn't even mention the word batsman.

I suggest you stick to the topic - Captaincy, Silverware, and career ODI stats are ALL relevent in the ODI GOAT debate.

Have a nice day.



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I think it’s time to address the elephant in the room. Mods, please add poll.

Am creating this thread because I’m torn on who out of these 4 is the true GOAT. They are all ATGs, but who stands above the rest? There’s been a lot of debate in another thread on Kohli’s validity as the best ever, and I want to see this question settle amongst the 4 players who I think have claim to the title.

Currently I’m leaning towards Viv equal to or marginally greater than SRT, then a smidge behind SRT is Kohli and Ponting as equals.

But I want to get to a clear cut conclusion. And until Kohli does something insane in his remaining years to remove any doubt altogether and truly reach GOAT status I think this topic of discussion will be a grey area. I think you can argue any of Viv, SRT, and Kohli being GOAT level with Ponting as an outside pick.

Personally, whenever this comparison comes to mind over the last year or so, my ranking of the 4 and who out of them is goat changes. The above is how I see it currently.
 
Pay attention dear boy, read my first reply in this thread. I clearly mentioned Silverware, Captaincy, and ODI career stats all contribute to an ODI GOAT candidate.

Pay Attention or do not reply to me at all.

For the record, Captaincy isn't easy, even with ATG ODI teams. Viv failed to win a WC while captain, Tendulkar was an abject failure as captain, and your boy Kohli, also failed to win any silverware as Captain of the so called greatest Asian side of this era (your words).

I do not read your posts unless you quote me. You never provide any legit insight so there is no point.
 
I do not read your posts unless you quote me. You never provide any legit insight so there is no point.

You know that's not true, plenty examples where you do read my posts and quote me instead.

Anyhow, enjoy your ODI GOAT pigeon holing debate excluding Silverware, even though you know Silverware matters just like when debating GOATs in other sports.

:)
 
Im honestly surprised this thread has went so far and the diversity of views are interesting.

To me it is only Kohli that can be considered the LOI GOAT but I can certainly understand the arguments for Viv.

But to have Tendulkar and Ponting ahead of these guys is something I cannot understand.
 
Im honestly surprised this thread has went so far and the diversity of views are interesting.

To me it is only Kohli that can be considered the LOI GOAT but I can certainly understand the arguments for Viv.

But to have Tendulkar and Ponting ahead of these guys is something I cannot understand.


There are only 3 contenders (Viv, Sachin, Kohli) who played in 3 different eras. They were well ahead of their peers. Tendulkar played across 2 eras. Picking any one of them for whatever reasons is understandable lol. But Ponting in this list based some convenient filters is a joke .
 
The reason why I excluded the 2003 World Cup final is because you have to win the semifinals to get to the finals.

Ponting averages 21.5 in the semifinals that Australia won, which means he was carried over by his teammates to the final. If his team wasn’t so strong, he would not have played the 2003 World Cup final in the first place.

That is the whole point. How many matches you play in World Cups & what your trophy count is depends more on how strong your team is than how good you are.
I have a genuine question; which players were carrying Ponting and Gilchrist(who you also mentioned in other threads as a liability in the WC) in the worldcup. If any batsman can have the privilege of carrying ponting and gilchrist, that batsman needs to be seriously rated.
 
I have a genuine question; which players were carrying Ponting and Gilchrist(who you also mentioned in other threads as a liability in the WC) in the worldcup. If any batsman can have the privilege of carrying ponting and gilchrist, that batsman needs to be seriously rated.

I don't think they need to be carried. They are good on their own. But about Mamoon's point that was not a smooth ride for Australia in 2003 as we believe. Anderw Symonds bailed Australia out in the semi final and the encounter against Pakitan. Against NZ Australia was tottering at 84/7 against shane bond, Bichel scored 60 odd batting at 9. those three are from my memory
 
You asked who is the GOAT in ODI, not who is the best batsman of all time in ODIs.

Read your own OP, I pasted it below. You didn't even mention the word batsman.

I suggest you stick to the topic - Captaincy, Silverware, and career ODI stats are ALL relevent in the ODI GOAT debate.

Have a nice day.



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You really think I will put SRT in a debate of captaincy? The fact that I have to spell it out for you alone and no one else in a multi page thread about who is the best ODI batsman of all time shows it goes without saying. It’s common sense.

No need for further mental gymnastics to force captaincy into the discussion.

If I didn’t say it explicitly in the OP because I thought it was clearly implied, then I’ll say it here. Who is the GOAT batsmen in ODIs of the names listed in the OP?

Hope that clears it up.
 
You really think I will put SRT in a debate of captaincy? The fact that I have to spell it out for you alone and no one else in a multi page thread about who is the best ODI batsman of all time shows it goes without saying. It’s common sense.

No need for further mental gymnastics to force captaincy into the discussion.

If I didn’t say it explicitly in the OP because I thought it was clearly implied, then I’ll say it here. Who is the GOAT batsmen in ODIs of the names listed in the OP?

Hope that clears it up.

If the 4 candidates in the OP didn't share the distinction that they were all ODI captains, and in a WC too, then I wouldn't have have mentioned captaincy.

If you have a problem with a debate extending multi pages, covering attributes you had never thought of, then just stick to highest AVG and SR to determine the GOAT ODI and end this 'Elephant in the room' nonsense you came up with.

And no, it's not that you can't include Tendulkar's captaincy in the debate, it's a case you will not cos he was an abysmal ODI captain, this fact irks you big time hence you got a problem with the captaincy metric.

Oh, Shubman Gill has the highest ODI AVG (71.37), and Andre Russel has the highest ODI SR (130.22) - pick your ODI GOAT.
 
Former Indian cricket team batsman Sanjay Manjrekar was asked whether Sachin Tendulkar or Virat Kohli can be considered “The Greatest Cricketer of All Time” but he had a completely different answer. Manjrekar said that both cricketers have been excellent in their respective time periods but his pick for the greatest cricketer ever was the West Indies great Viv Richards. The former India batsman explained that his numbers in ODIs and Tests are ‘earth shattering' and it makes him a massive name in cricket.

“When you look at the modern era, in the last 20 years or so, Virat Kohli is right up there. Tendulkar also one of the time all-time greats. Virat Kohli, in my book just fits in as a pure one-day player. MS Dhoni is another player that comes to my mind," Manjrekar told Star Sports.

“But, all-time one-day batter, there is nobody who can get close to Sir Vivian Richards. Now this might seem a little old-fashioned," he added.

Manjrekar also explained that the dominance shown by Richards during his playing days was quite unique for world cricket and the difference was huge when it comes to his other contemporaries.

“Viv Richards played from 70s to 90s in a time when all top-class batters, people like Gordon Greenidge averaged about 30 and strike rate in the 60s. Viv Richards, from 70s to 90s, including a World Cup final hundred, averaged 47 and a strike rate of 90. The second-best in his era was second-best by a long way."

NDTV
 
You are not saying anything original here. People have made this logically fallacious argument countless times & they are not prepared to apply the reverse logic because it is inconvenient.

If Kohli & other legendary modern batsman cannot be compared to the great batsmen of the 70’s & 80’s because of better pitches, smaller boundaries, better helmets, better bats, batting-friendly rules, then the same logic applies to the bowlers as well.

I am ready to accept your nonsense argument if you are ready to apply the reverse logic.

The reverse logic is that the likes of Lillee, Thompson, Marshall, Holding, Imran, Wasim etc. are not comparable to Starc, Cummins, Rabada, Shaheen, Bumrah, Boult, Hazlewood etc. because those old era bowlers played in an era where bats were thin, boundaries were huge, pitches were better for bowlers, helmets were not durable, rules were not batting-friendly.

You cannot have it both ways. If you have to discredit Kohli & other modern batsmen for XYZ reasons then you have to discredit the old era bowlers for the same XYZ reasons.

Great players are great in every era. They have qualities that make them stand out. Viv would be Viv in any era & Kohli would be Kohli in any era, but if you are going to come with a nonsense argument to prove otherwise then please apply it consistently.



Not sure exactly what scenario are you thinking when you talk about "reverse logic"?

There are only two.

Either, make Viv play today and face modern day bowlers (Starc and whatnot) in small grounds, on easy pitches, bigger bats and favorable rules, and free hits, and see if he performance better than Kohli?
OR
Make Kohli bat in the 70's 80's atmosphere on tough piches, thin bats, large boundaries, no bouncer limit etc, and see if he would better than Richards?

Or may be you are shooting from the hip and thinking a scenario to put modern day bowlers into the 70 and 80's atmosphere and make Viv Richards face, Starc and Cummins and whatnot, on tough pitches, thin bats. large boundaries, no free hits etc? When did Kohli ever played in this environment so that Viv have to play in the same environment to be compared?
 
Not sure exactly what scenario are you thinking when you talk about "reverse logic"?

There are only two.

Either, make Viv play today and face modern day bowlers (Starc and whatnot) in small grounds, on easy pitches, bigger bats and favorable rules, and free hits, and see if he performance better than Kohli?
OR
Make Kohli bat in the 70's 80's atmosphere on tough piches, thin bats, large boundaries, no bouncer limit etc, and see if he would better than Richards?

Or may be you are shooting from the hip and thinking a scenario to put modern day bowlers into the 70 and 80's atmosphere and make Viv Richards face, Starc and Cummins and whatnot, on tough pitches, thin bats. large boundaries, no free hits etc? When did Kohli ever played in this environment so that Viv have to play in the same environment to be compared?

What is this word salad? You are not making any sense at all. It is not rocket science - I made it very clear. Perhaps you should remove the “genius” from your username.

Let me help you out again. If you think that modern batsmen cannot be as good as old era batsmen because rules and conditions are more favorable now, then if we extend the same logic, old era bowlers cannot be as good modern bowlers if rules and conditions were more favorable back then.

In other words, if Kohli cannot be compared to Viv because Kohli plays in an era of free hits, flat pitches, big bats, short boundaries then by the same logic, Wasim cannot be compared to Bumrah because because Wasim played in an era where there were no free hits, there were bowling-friendly pitches, small bats, long boundaries.

If you still don’t get it, let me make it easier for you. If you think Kohli cannot be better than Viv because batting is easier today, then Wasim cannot be better than Bumrah because bowling is more difficult today.

The problem with your argument - and you are not the only one to make it - is the lack of application when it comes to bowlers.

If you want to say that the quality of both batsmen and bowlers have gone done then you are blinded by nostalgia and perhaps you should stop following the sport and watch highlights of old players on YouTube.
 
What is this word salad? You are not making any sense at all. It is not rocket science - I made it very clear. Perhaps you should remove the “genius” from your username.

Let me help you out again. If you think that modern batsmen cannot be as good as old era batsmen because rules and conditions are more favorable now, then if we extend the same logic, old era bowlers cannot be as good modern bowlers if rules and conditions were more favorable back then.

In other words, if Kohli cannot be compared to Viv because Kohli plays in an era of free hits, flat pitches, big bats, short boundaries then by the same logic, Wasim cannot be compared to Bumrah because because Wasim played in an era where there were no free hits, there were bowling-friendly pitches, small bats, long boundaries.

If you still don’t get it, let me make it easier for you. If you think Kohli cannot be better than Viv because batting is easier today, then Wasim cannot be better than Bumrah because bowling is more difficult today.

The problem with your argument - and you are not the only one to make it - is the lack of application when it comes to bowlers.

If you want to say that the quality of both batsmen and bowlers have gone done then you are blinded by nostalgia and perhaps you should stop following the sport and watch highlights of old players on YouTube.


It's keep getting worse for you, isn't it?

So you are saying that 70' 80' bowlers had a lot of help from the playing conditions and rules of that era. And if those bowlers were to play in today's conditions, they would not be as good.

And inversely, modern day pace bowlers are more talented and master of their skills because they came on top EVEN though, the playing conditions don't favor them.

And the example you gave is Bumrah vs Akram. And essentially, what you are saying is that Bumrah would probably had better record and more magic than Akram if he had played in the Akram's era because Bumrah is more talented to have developed the skill, in tougher conditions for the bowlers?

In other words, what you are saying is, by "reverse logic", Bumrah is better than Akram?

Yes or no?
 
It's keep getting worse for you, isn't it?

So you are saying that 70' 80' bowlers had a lot of help from the playing conditions and rules of that era. And if those bowlers were to play in today's conditions, they would not be as good.

And inversely, modern day pace bowlers are more talented and master of their skills because they came on top EVEN though, the playing conditions don't favor them.

And the example you gave is Bumrah vs Akram. And essentially, what you are saying is that Bumrah would probably had better record and more magic than Akram if he had played in the Akram's era because Bumrah is more talented to have developed the skill, in tougher conditions for the bowlers?

In other words, what you are saying is, by "reverse logic", Bumrah is better than Akram?

Yes or no?

No, I am simply playing along your nonsensical logic. Please don’t it personally when I say “your”. I am not talking about you only because you are the only one who makes this dumb argument.

My point is that a great player will be a great player in any era. The qualities that make them great will not change from one era to another.

Viv Richard’s will be Viv Richards in 70s, 80s, 90s and 2020s. Kohli will be Kohli in 70s, 80s, 90s and 2020s.

It is totally idiotic to downplay Kohli based on the assertion that he cannot be compared to Viv because the conditions and rules are more favorable to batsmen now, please revisit what you said:

“Quite an idiocy to compare Viv the rest in your list.

Viv played in an altogether different era.

Had Tendulkar, Kohli and Ponting played with a paper thin bat in 80 yard boundaries with no helmet on pitches that were not covered overnight and no b-ess rules like free hit, and one bouncer per over, and that too against the Lillies and Thompsons and Hadlees and Bothams and Imrans- they wouldve gotten their paints wet everytime. There is no comparison.”

So you are saying that Viv cannot be compared to modern batsmen like Kohli or Tendulkar or Ponting because Viv played with a thin bat on 80 yard boundaries with no free-hits. My question is - why are scared of applying the same logic to bowlers?

How come the Lillies, Thompsons and Hadlees are considered better than modern pacers when they had the luxury of bowling against thin bats on 80 yard boundaries with no free-hits?

I have no issues with you downplaying modern batsmen as long as you are consistent in your logic and apply to bowlers as well but you don’t.

There is not a shred of evidence that Tendulkar, Ponting and Kohli would wet their pants if they played against Lillee, Thompson and Hadlee. That is a nonsensical hyperbolic argument that you cannot support.
 
This is a very simple answer to Mamoon’s (with all due respect) pretty amateur and straw man argument.

Batsmen have advantages over previous eras - they benefit from shorter boundaries, bigger bats and white ball fielding rules in their favour.

Bowlers still benefit from this because batsmen due to having a lot of advantages have sacrificed areas of their batting and as a result have worse techniques and are not as good as batsmen from previous eras.

Bowlers also have some rules in their favour that previous eras didn’t have such as DRS bringing more LBWs in to the picture.

Mishits in this era go for more runs than previous eras.

If you bowl a good ball, you bowl a good ball - the bats, shorter boundaries and rules aren’t a factor with that delivery. That same ball would not have got someone out in previous eras, but the worse techniques enable the wickets in this era.

So this current era you are playing at a lower level both ways.

The current era is like watching u19 cricket of previous eras - slightly more exciting because the lower level enables more mistakes. But the big boys you get the real quality.
 
Feel like there is still some dispute over who is ODI GOAT between Kohli, Viv and SRT.

For the longest time, Kohli critics had the “but has he scored in a KO match??”, and he did that in the semis this year.

However, if he wins it for India, it may end the discussion once and for all and he will leave Viv, SRT, Ponting, Babar etc etc in the dust.

What do you think? Any other gaps in his resume to be certified GOAT?

Last chance for Ponting and SRT fans to reconsider. Invest now or suffer from FOMO if he does it.
 
Feel like there is still some dispute over who is ODI GOAT between Kohli, Viv and SRT.

For the longest time, Kohli critics had the “but has he scored in a KO match??”, and he did that in the semis this year.

However, if he wins it for India, it may end the discussion once and for all and he will leave Viv, SRT, Ponting, Babar etc etc in the dust.

What do you think? Any other gaps in his resume to be certified GOAT?

Last chance for Ponting and SRT fans to reconsider. Invest now or suffer from FOMO if he does it.

Has he got a 100 on a full moon day against South Africa at Durban under light with rain interruption?
 
Sir Vivian Richards is by far the greatest ODI batsmen because of how far ahead he was of his peers. Imagine this, Vivian Richard’s has a higher SR playing in India in the 70s and 80s than Virat Kohli has playing in India in the modern day!

On top of that, he checks every box you could ever imagine. His averages go up in knockout rounds, he won the first two World Cups, and his record remains consistent everywhere he played regardless of conditions.

Comparing across eras is generally an impossible task, but when you simply compare how far ahead someone is of their peers - then no one in ODI cricket has ever been as far ahead of his peers as Vivian Richard’s was. Nowadays there’s plenty of batsmen with averages of around 50 and a SR of 90.
 
Sir Vivian Richards is by far the greatest ODI batsmen because of how far ahead he was of his peers. Imagine this, Vivian Richard’s has a higher SR playing in India in the 70s and 80s than Virat Kohli has playing in India in the modern day!

On top of that, he checks every box you could ever imagine. His averages go up in knockout rounds, he won the first two World Cups, and his record remains consistent everywhere he played regardless of conditions.

Comparing across eras is generally an impossible task, but when you simply compare how far ahead someone is of their peers - then no one in ODI cricket has ever been as far ahead of his peers as Vivian Richard’s was. Nowadays there’s plenty of batsmen with averages of around 50 and a SR of 90.
This ! Could not have said it better. Nobody comes close to Sir Viv in odis. An all time great! Way ahead of his generation and his numbers are comparable with today's generation- just let that sink in. Also the biggest thing - he never batted with a helmet his entire career.. people underestimate that. Even the club cricket that we play - if we are hit with the club level slow medium pacers it causes serious head injury. So just imagine the speeds at international cricket.. and his era had more bouncers with uncovered pitches- again just fathom that. Sachin virat Ponting all got hit multiple times on their heads with helmets on. In viv's days that meant even if you are hit once on the head - your career is over or you are dead. Again let that sink in.. So to compare anyone with viv is an absolute joke and an insult to an ATG .
 
Sir Vivian Richards is by far the greatest ODI batsmen because of how far ahead he was of his peers. Imagine this, Vivian Richard’s has a higher SR playing in India in the 70s and 80s than Virat Kohli has playing in India in the modern day!

On top of that, he checks every box you could ever imagine. His averages go up in knockout rounds, he won the first two World Cups, and his record remains consistent everywhere he played regardless of conditions.

Comparing across eras is generally an impossible task, but when you simply compare how far ahead someone is of their peers - then no one in ODI cricket has ever been as far ahead of his peers as Vivian Richard’s was. Nowadays there’s plenty of batsmen with averages of around 50 and a SR of 90.
Bottled against India in KO, but he is greatest for me.
 
Kohli - There are only two ATGs. Viv and Sachin
Richards - It was a privilege to watch Kohli's feat
 
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For those people who claim Ponting is GOAT because of 140 in 2003.

Brothers, you are using wrong person as your hero. You should have selected Gilchrist. He was much better than Ponting in World Cup finals. Ponting failed in 2 finals.

Adam Gilchrist 54 (1999) 57 (2003) 149 (2007)
Ponting 24 (1999) 140 (2003) 37 (2007)

By the way Ponting scored just 45 in 1996 world Cup.... He just has one good performance in 4 world cup finals attempt. Gilchrist was better than him.
 
errors: Ponting failed in 3 world cup finals.

Ponting scored 45 in 1996 world cup final..
 
Viv and Kohli would be the two best batters in ODIs. They are trend setters. Viv showed the world how to bat in ODIs. His mere presence was intimidating let alone his powerful strokes.

There hasn't been a batsman that excelled in chasing a target than Kohli. His consistency and technique along with a computer in his brain has made India, a perennial poor chasers into a power house in chasing targets. No other batsman comes close.
 
Smith's body of work is half of Sachin and 70 percent of Ponting both in terms of tests played and number of years as a test cricketer. Both Sachin and Ponting have a continuous stretch of 100 odd test matches where they averaged 57-58. Same is the case with Dravid and Kallis. So Smith's superiority in tests is not as cut and dried. He's got some ways to go still.
 
Smith's peak is on par with, if not better, than Ponting. But its left to be seen if he can sustain this.

Ever since Neil Wagner and the NZ'ers forced a change in his technique in early 2020, he has struggled to score runs with the same fluency.

Ponting played 168 Tests and SRT, 200. Will Smith even get anywhere close to those 2 ? Hard to say.

Having said that what Smith did in 2016/17 India on an away tour and in Ashes 2019 against tough bowling on some very tough pitches is something neither Ponting nor SRT have done. Not to that extent anyway
 
Smith's body of work is half of Sachin and 70 percent of Ponting both in terms of tests played and number of years as a test cricketer. Both Sachin and Ponting have a continuous stretch of 100 odd test matches where they averaged 57-58. Same is the case with Dravid and Kallis. So Smith's superiority in tests is not as cut and dried. He's got some ways to go still.
Smith is aeons ahead of both. Tendulkar nor Ponting are as good in tests.
Smith carried a much weaker batting unit all by himself.
 
Smith's peak is on par with, if not better, than Ponting. But its left to be seen if he can sustain this.

Ever since Neil Wagner and the NZ'ers forced a change in his technique in early 2020, he has struggled to score runs with the same fluency.

Ponting played 168 Tests and SRT, 200. Will Smith even get anywhere close to those 2 ? Hard to say.

Having said that what Smith did in 2016/17 India on an away tour and in Ashes 2019 against tough bowling on some very tough pitches is something neither Ponting nor SRT have done. Not to that extent anyway
Both are simply not on smiths level. Anyone who disagrees is just nostalgic. I have seen all 3 at their peaks, Smith reigns supreme.

Also don't forget drs era. Sachin bhai and punter would have had more difficulties than him especially with high quality bowling in modern era
 
Punter was trash in India
He is just lucky he had mcg and Warne to support him

Have watched all 3 in their primes. It's not even close. Smith is far better. I would even say current Aussie attack overall is on par with their best ever attach of 2000 to 2005.

It's batting they are well ahead. As Smith is the only player and maybe Warner would start for that Aussie side. The other 5 batsmen have no chance.

When has tenda ever scored in high pressure away game like Smith???

2016 and 2019 Smith peak was untouchable. Like roy Jones jnr prime
 
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Both are simply not on smiths level. Anyone who disagrees is just nostalgic. I have seen all 3 at their peaks, Smith reigns supreme.

Also don't forget drs era. Sachin bhai and punter would have had more difficulties than him especially with high quality bowling in modern era
Thanks for letting us know that modern day bowling is of better quality than in the 90's.
 
Only pure nostalgic fans would put tenda and Ricky over Smith lol. Delusional fans. Sure current version of Smith is washed up bit his peak was far ahead of any of the former.

I have never ever seen saChin perform in sea countries under pressure to win a series.

Punter failed badly in India. Against spin. Very overrated and fully protected by mcg and Warne
 
Both are simply not on smiths level. Anyone who disagrees is just nostalgic. I have seen all 3 at their peaks, Smith reigns supreme.

Also don't forget drs era. Sachin bhai and punter would have had more difficulties than him especially with high quality bowling in modern era
Ponting maybe but sachin played in the 90s which were one of the hardest era for batting in history and played against so many atg bowlers and still managed to avg 58
 
Ponting maybe but sachin played in the 90s which were one of the hardest era for batting in history and played against so many atg bowlers and still managed to avg 58
They only looked atg because of the advantages they enjoyed. Only mcg was true goat. Rest all befitted from rules that were heavily in bowlers favour. Yes Sachin did bat in a tough era. But even at his best he failed a lot in west indies. Lost a key series when w.indies were on the decline etc. Bad performances in nz etc.

So many others.

I would say modern era bowling is much much better. Batsmen of yesteryear may have better defensive technique. But attacking game has improved more now
 
They only looked atg because of the advantages they enjoyed. Only mcg was true goat. Rest all befitted from rules that were heavily in bowlers favour. Yes Sachin did bat in a tough era. But even at his best he failed a lot in west indies. Lost a key series when w.indies were on the decline etc. Bad performances in nz etc.

So many others.

I would say modern era bowling is much much better. Batsmen of yesteryear may have better defensive technique. But attacking game has improved more now
Sachin averaged 58 in the 1997 series against Ambrose and walsh and averaged 50 in nz ???
 
Did they win the series. He stat pads.

Hard to rate smith. Zero series win in India, flopped hard at his own home vs India and lost the series. Failed to win a single ashes away.

Massive statpadder.
 
Lost of South Africa when they had a half decent team in 2018.

Probably one of the most IMPACTLESS batsman to come out of AUS
 
Everyone had weaknesses. Punter looked like a deer caught in headlights against Harbhajan in India lol Imagine him facing Ashwin/Jadeja/Kuldeep. Smith is probably not as talented. But he found a way to bat against these guys at least in one series. No batsman is perfect.
 
Lost of South Africa when they had a half decent team in 2018.

Probably one of the most IMPACTLESS batsman to come out of AUS
Peak Smith I put above both. What he did vs england and India was unprecedented. Single handedly with no support.

India is so strong in Asia and he led his team to a very close series loss. Unlike tenda etc lost to a declining west indies, weak nz and so on.


And have you seen the pace attack of SA inn2018?

It was very good
 
Viv Richards is clearly the ODI GOAT - largely because of how far ahead of his time he was. A 90 SR back then was completely unheard of and it speaks to how destructive of a batsman he was. Just for context, Virat Kohli, who is also a great of the game, has a SR only 3 points higher even though Viv played almost 40 years ago.

It seems this thread has also become a discussion of Test batsmen. Steven Smith is the best Test batsmen since Bradman, he’s been absolutely dominant in almost all conditions and against almost all competition.
 
Peak Smith I put above both. What he did vs england and India was unprecedented. Single handedly with no support.

India is so strong in Asia and he led his team to a very close series loss. Unlike tenda etc lost to a declining west indies, weak nz and so on.


And have you seen the pace attack of SA inn2018?

It was very good

Suddenly you are yammering about peak? What even is that? The whole career counts, not a some chunk carved out as per your preference.

Tendulkar owned the WHOLE of 90s and was unlucky to play in poverty days of BCCI - getting to play a mere 69 tests in 10 years (while averaging approx 60) when other randoms were clocking 80-90 matches. Nobody would talk about Smith and his so-called peak. Lara was similarly shafted in the 90s playing too little tests.

At least Ponting never lost shamefully to India at home, won Ashes away and captained his team to WC wins. What has Smith achieved except LOSING left right and center to his main rivals while being a total dud in LOIs.
 
Separately, if winning series/matches abroad was the criterion, then Wasim Akram probably ranks one or two places below Zaheer and maybe alongside Agarkar as a bowler :ROFLMAO:
 
Suddenly you are yammering about peak? What even is that? The whole career counts, not a some chunk carved out as per your preference.

Tendulkar owned the WHOLE of 90s and was unlucky to play in poverty days of BCCI - getting to play a mere 69 tests in 10 years (while averaging approx 60) when other randoms were clocking 80-90 matches. Nobody would talk about Smith and his so-called peak. Lara was similarly shafted in the 90s playing too little tests.

At least Ponting never lost shamefully to India at home, won Ashes away and captained his team to WC wins. What has Smith achieved except LOSING left right and center to his main rivals while being a total dud in LOIs.
Ponting is a cheat though. He was trash in India. Like utter garbage quality trash. He was carried my mcg and Warne

Tenda failed in 90s too against some decent attacks. Against declining teams unlike Smith who lost to strong india away.
 
Viv Richards is clearly the ODI GOAT - largely because of how far ahead of his time he was. A 90 SR back then was completely unheard of and it speaks to how destructive of a batsman he was. Just for context, Virat Kohli, who is also a great of the game, has a SR only 3 points higher even though Viv played almost 40 years ago.

It seems this thread has also become a discussion of Test batsmen. Steven Smith is the best Test batsmen since Bradman, he’s been absolutely dominant in almost all conditions and against almost all competition.
Kohli Is a nothing player compared to viv
Kohli just a choker.
 
Tendulkar in this era would double his centuries if he played 464 games with current rules of 2 new balls.

Tendulkar is better them kohli when it comes to batting first but kohli is 100x better then Sachin when it comes to chasing. No one in the past 25 years is on par with kohli in terms of chasing.
Im honestly surprised this thread has went so far and the diversity of views are interesting.

To me it is only Kohli that can be considered the LOI GOAT but I can certainly understand the arguments for Viv.

But to have Tendulkar and Ponting ahead of these guys is something I cannot understand.
 
Viv


Pointing

Million years gap than Kohli and Tendulkar.
 
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But.. Viv Richards is the GOAT ODI batter. There is no question about it. No one even comes closer to the fear he put into bowlers

Not really. The game of cricket evolved and bowlers became a lot more disciplined over time and other bats have a body of work 2x-3x times viv so nothing unreasonable in rating someone like Sachin or Virat above Viv.

It's all opinion anyway not some incontestable fact so no need to get agitated over it.
 
I think Ricky Ponting. Won 3 World Cups (including a match-winning century in 2003 final).

Scored over 13,000 ODI runs.

Best ODI batter of all time for me.
 
The question of the form is who is the goat in odi's. So this is kinda weird, since batting and captaincy are different breeds altogether.

Pointing is clearly the goat of captaincy statistically speaking. Yes he had an all-star team but to maintain dominate for 11 years straight is still a very very impressive feat.

Batting wise honestly idk, Viv was beyond his era, Sachin was the goat of his era, kohli the goat of his era, its tough to compare.
 
The question of the form is who is the goat in odi's. So this is kinda weird, since batting and captaincy are different breeds altogether.

Pointing is clearly the goat of captaincy statistically speaking. Yes he had an all-star team but to maintain dominate for 11 years straight is still a very very impressive feat.

Batting wise honestly idk, Viv was beyond his era, Sachin was the goat of his era, kohli the goat of his era, its tough to compare.

Punter had pathetic strike rate. Feasted on bowling on absolutely dead pitches. He shouldn't even be in the discussion because he led a GOAT side which happened to win the world cups
 
The question of the form is who is the goat in odi's. So this is kinda weird, since batting and captaincy are different breeds altogether.

Pointing is clearly the goat of captaincy statistically speaking. Yes he had an all-star team but to maintain dominate for 11 years straight is still a very very impressive feat.

Batting wise honestly idk, Viv was beyond his era, Sachin was the goat of his era, kohli the goat of his era, its tough to compare.

I think these factors should be taken into considerations:

- Impacts during knockout games (Ponting clearly edges that one).
- Number of runs scored in career.
- Batting average.
- Number of centuries.

When all things considered, Ponting wins.
 
Richards
Sachin - as he played through several eras unlike some other guys who played decently in a short window lot of matches
Kohli

Guys like Rohit, Ponting, Lara come after that. Punter failed in two matches where pitch was challenging in the 2003 world cup.
 
Tendulkar in this era would double his centuries if he played 464 games with current rules of 2 new balls.

Tendulkar is better them kohli when it comes to batting first but kohli is 100x better then Sachin when it comes to chasing. No one in the past 25 years is on par with kohli in terms of chasing.
Tendulkar struggled against heath streak, cronje, even Peter middle and Chris Lewis.

His stats vs atg bowlers is pretty average tbh.

Also struggled vs Pollock who is a tier below mcgrath wasim etc.


Only averages 36 vs australia when mcgrath played. 70 without

Averaged a pathetic 31 when donald played in tests.

Against Pakistan when akram played it was 34.

He would do well in odi but he wouldn't average over 50 in tests in modern era.
 
Akin to saying

Dale Steyn

Agarkar

Million years gap then Akram and Waqar
Please remind us when dale steyn and agrakar won a world cup. Infact wake me up when Tendulkar or kholi wins a motm in a world cup final. Seems like stating facts hurts Indian posters.
 
Richards
Sachin - as he played through several eras unlike some other guys who played decently in a short window lot of matches
Kohli

Guys like Rohit, Ponting, Lara come after that. Punter failed in two matches where pitch was challenging in the 2003 world cup.
I never rated punter In Tests. He would get owned in modern era vs modern quicks. He was pathetic vs spin

His record vs weak bowlers was great. He even struggled vs ishant lol. And was lucky to not get our due to dumb Buckner

In odi sure. That's Aussies game. Odi suits them
 
I never rated punter In Tests. He would get owned in modern era vs modern quicks. He was pathetic vs spin

His record vs weak bowlers was great. He even struggled vs ishant lol. And was lucky to not get our due to dumb Buckner

In odi sure. That's Aussies game. Odi suits them

Punter being celebrated in ODIs is a joke lol Gilchrist is easily better than him significantly. He banked on Gilly/Haydos starts.
 
You throw in irrelevant stuff and you get a befitting response. You can make what ever you want the fact remains.

Viv is miles better than Tendulkar and kholi combined.
No your parameter is chosen just to select certain players lol You should "According to me" lol
 
No your parameter is chosen just to select certain players lol You should "According to me" lol
What I said was a fact is kholi and Tendulkar better than viv?

You didn't like that and started brining in agrakar or whatever his name is.

Indians don't have to be the best in everything. The sooner you accept this fact the better it will be for you.
 
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