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Waqar Younis - Performance as bowling coach

topspin said:
It's rare for sure. The one that I can recall last was Amir's terrific wicket maiden against Dilshan in the 2009 WT20 final.

Also shows what a good cricketing brain Younis Khan had as well.
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Yes I remember that great over. Amir was a thinking bowler since his younger days and having someone as someone like Younis as captain meant we actually went in that tournament with some plan and strategy. Younis read the game pretty well actually, he could have been a top captain for Pak but cricket politics and his own emotions were the obstacles.
 
Tbh we were doing better with Azhar Mehmood as a bowling coach...
 
topspin said:
It's rare for sure. The one that I can recall last was Amir's terrific wicket maiden against Dilshan in the 2009 WT20 final.

Also shows what a good cricketing brain Younis Khan had as well.
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In my mind, the best one to come with captaincy material in the last decade or two.

Can think of a few other occasions too:
- Junaid Khan to Graeme Smith in SA: I think he kept shuffling too much and YK asked JK to bowl behind him and JK bowled him (Misbah was captain though)
- Keeping a slip in: 2005 ENG tour of PAK with Inzamam the actual captain in the series and YK was Vice Capt. Inzi went off the field while ENG were chasing and I think it was the fourth or fifth ODI and ENG needed 14 in the last over and Akhtar was bowling. YK kept a slip in when most captain may not have and have just kept a fine third man. The slip was YK himself and he took a great catch off an Anderson edge. [Was a while ago so maybe some details are slightly off]
- The Shannon Gabriel thing in WI in 2017 (‘ot sure if I would call that a data-orientated plan though)

In my opinion had the best on-field brain but was too demanding and rigid from a set of players who were neither keen to work hard nor dreamt of leaving legacies.

Still remember that WT2009 semi final I think where Amir was bowling, the batsmen hit to long on where Malik was fielding and tried to run two. Malik hit the stumps from long on and Pakistan were probably in a good position already but cameras captured YK scolding Amir for just loitering about and not coming behind the stumps to collect Malik’s throw. Idea being that if he had missed, Amir’s brain fade could have cost Pakistan a missed chance. Lol, he was the kind of guy who would not paper over cracks even if a poor performance won us a game. Not a made for Pakistan work ethic/player. Used to fight for the team, and was sandwiched between a power hungry board and talented but lazy bums.
 
Yk313 said:
In my mind, the best one to come with captaincy material in the last decade or two.

Can think of a few other occasions too:
- Junaid Khan to Graeme Smith in SA: I think he kept shuffling too much and YK asked JK to bowl behind him and JK bowled him (Misbah was captain though)
- Keeping a slip in: 2005 ENG tour of PAK with Inzamam the actual captain in the series and YK was Vice Capt. Inzi went off the field while ENG were chasing and I think it was the fourth or fifth ODI and ENG needed 14 in the last over and Akhtar was bowling. YK kept a slip in when most captain may not have and have just kept a fine third man. The slip was YK himself and he took a great catch off an Anderson edge. [Was a while ago so maybe some details are slightly off]
- The Shannon Gabriel thing in WI in 2017 (‘ot sure if I would call that a data-orientated plan though)

In my opinion had the best on-field brain but was too demanding and rigid from a set of players who were neither keen to work hard nor dreamt of leaving legacies.

Still remember that WT2009 semi final I think where Amir was bowling, the batsmen hit to long on where Malik was fielding and tried to run two. Malik hit the stumps from long on and Pakistan were probably in a good position already but cameras captured YK scolding Amir for just loitering about and not coming behind the stumps to collect Malik’s throw. Idea being that if he had missed, Amir’s brain fade could have cost Pakistan a missed chance. Lol, he was the kind of guy who would not paper over cracks even if a poor performance won us a game. Not a made for Pakistan work ethic/player. Used to fight for the team, and was sandwiched between a power hungry board and talented but lazy bums.
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Top post. This response is a testament to your posts on here and shows you are a good addition to PP.

I've watched cricket since the 1999 WC and there is no one who comes even close to matching Younis Khan's on-field brain and overall tactical nous over the last 20 years of Pakistan cricket. He was primarily the reason why we managed to win the 2009 WT20 and reach the semis of the CT, later that year.

I have always maintained that Pakistan cricket would have been in a better place if Misbah was replaced by Younis as captain of the test side, after that embarrassing drawn series in Zimbabwe, seven years ago. Even Misbah's die hard supporters deep down know this is true.
 
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topspin said:
Top post. This response is a testament to your posts on here and shows you are a good addition to PP.

I've watched cricket since the 1999 WC and there is no one who comes even close to matching Younis Khan's on-field brain and overall tactical nous over the last 20 years of Pakistan cricket. He was primarily the reason why we managed to win the 2009 WT20 and reach the semis of the CT, later that year.

I have always maintained that Pakistan cricket would have been in a better place if Misbah was replaced by Younis as captain of the test side, after that embarrassing drawn series in Zimbabwe, seven years ago. Even Misbah's die hard supporters deep down know this is true.
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Really kind of you bro!! I was incredibly happy when the account got approved, as I have been following the content here for a while now. Really enjoy your posts and the overall feel of this forum. Your post made me re-watch the highlights of WT2009 semi against SAF. Think the fielder at long on was Fawad (and not Malik as I mistakenly said) - man how time flies.

Genuinely feel that we failed to utilise YK the captain. Had Oathgate not happened, who knows how the 2010 tour of ENG would have gone. No Salman Butt as captain, far smaller chances of no balls. Amir and Asif playing under YK in those conditions. Could even have beaten AUS in ENG that year instead of the 1-1.

Anyway, I felt that once YK relinquished captaincy post Oathgate, he stopped giving his input as often and would often be seen in his trademark pose just biding time between deliveries. He did not become the kind of former captain who comes up to the actual captain time and time again and offers advice. Instead it was left to MuH to seek it mostly. In that sense, I feel PAK missed out big time.

When we lost that test to ZIM, I think I stopped watching for a while. And I mean not even checking Cricinfo. Aah well. The regard YK holds in the team can be seen from how Shan and Fawad (people who like to sweat it out in nets and gym) look up to him. AA and AS have just regressed so much that I do not want to mention them here. Bit of a shame BA did not play as much with him, that would have been something.

I think with YK speaking in Pushto, Yasir, Rizwan, Shaheen and I think even Naseem will be having a bit of a ball lol.
 
Doesn’t look thrilled.

oiF3jSx.png
 
I was saying before his appointment that he is not the right choice, like how Misbah and Azhar weren't the right choices.

These 3 guys need to resign or be sacked after this series. They had plenty of time to acclimitise to English conditions. Waqar has played a lot of cricket here. No excuse for this performance.

If the fast bowlers can't be effective in England how will they perform in Asia?
 
The bowling has been horrible today.

England’s batsman have destroyed them.

No improvement has been shown so far on any bowler, they have regressed in fact.
 
Is Waqar the right guy to be the bowling coach for the T20 team? He barely played the format himself
 
Every time Waqar returns to a management role, we look a shambles with no discernible tactical preparation or technical improvements of the bowlers.
 
Another damning blow to Bekaar Younis's coaching.

Once again we see batsmen taking on the bowlers and they have no answer. This has been England's strategy since the 2nd innings in the 1st test and they're still getting away with it.

Misbah and Younis are truly exposed now and both have got to go.
 
I honestly was expecting much better but, has been absolutely pathetic till now.
 
Will take another 2 years for this pcb regime to understand how incompetent waqar younis is as a coach
God he has become the intikhab alam of this generation
 
Mir jibran said:
Will take another 2 years for this pcb regime to understand how incompetent waqar younis is as a coach
God he has become the intikhab alam of this generation
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It has been how many stints of coaching and still we don’t learn from our mistakes.
 
Shane Bond, Allan Donald are some decent candidates available from outside with a decent track record and Shoaib Akhtar has showed his interest at local level multiple times.:misbah3
 
How is Shaheen going to develop and improve under a proven failure like Waqar?
 
Waqar has a great record as a bowler. What qualities does he possess to be considered a bowling coach?
 
Misbah - Waqar -Azhar Ali combination is the worst in Pakistan history

They can keep on bragging about their UAE success in 2013-2016 , and the truth is they never played India in that UAE.
 
I can't believe I'm saying this but even Azhar Mahmood might have been a better bowling coach than Waqar. Only in Pakistan a three time flop coach can get another chance.

Zero tactics, hardly any change ups, no bowling plans. We can only hope dumb Wasim Khan realizes how Misbah and Waqar are destroying our cricket.
 
Titan24 said:
Shane Bond, Allan Donald are some decent candidates available from outside with a decent track record and Shoaib Akhtar has showed his interest at local level multiple times.:misbah3
Click to expand...

shoaib is the only one to my knowledge in Pakistan who has a knowhow about coaching fast bowlers.

The W's especially are a joke.
 
Whenever a PAK player does well and wins a MOM award and then he gives the Award winning speech and the scripted words that comes out of most players are that the "coaches and support staff motivated me and supported me"

this MOTIVATION and SUPPORT seems to be invisible especially when PAK is put under pressure in this ENG series
 
Waqar was almost exclusively a reverse swing bowler, he often didn't even take the new ball even at his peak. Wasim Akram and Aqib Javed used to get the new ball because they could get some away swing.

It's possible that Waqar can coach stuff which he couldn't produce himself, but he always struck me as someone who bowled on pure instinct rather than intelligence. Same goes for Akram really, even though he was a fabulous bowler, just don't think he has the capacity to do coaching. Being a great player doesn't necessarily make you a great coach.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Waqar was almost exclusively a reverse swing bowler, he often didn't even take the new ball even at his peak. Wasim Akram and Aqib Javed used to get the new ball because they could get some away swing.

It's possible that Waqar can coach stuff which he couldn't produce himself, but he always struck me as someone who bowled on pure instinct rather than intelligence. Same goes for Akram really, even though he was a fabulous bowler, just don't think he has the capacity to do coaching. Being a great player doesn't necessarily make you a great coach.
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Under his coaching, it appears that bowling a bouncer is a gunah. The bowlers are very predictable i.e. bowling full or outside the off stump. Morgan and Woakes have known issues against the short ball early on in their innings and they haven't been tested against bouncers early on. Warner was tortured by Stuart Broad in the Ashes and the Pakistani bowlers barely bowled around the wicket to him.

Wth is Waqar getting paid to do exactly?
 
For me, the most frustrating thing with Waqar is there are no plans being utilize to combat the weaknesses of the batsman. Instead of focusing on the technical aspect of bowling, Waqar seems to believe in intuition. Very few bowlers can know what to bowl themselves, especially younger bowlers - they need guidance. If you look at any interview, when Waqar is given a question on how the bowlers can improve, he just gives a generic response, there is no mention of what he is specifically focusing on. This does not give account of his abilities as a bowling coach.
 
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

This is so true for this failed coach.
 
We need technical bowling coach with advance technology who can improve our bowlers .Waqar school of thought are from 90s which won't work in modern cricket
 
saeed5646 said:
We need technical bowling coach with advance technology who can improve our bowlers .Waqar school of thought are from 90s which won't work in modern cricket
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Who would you recommend as a technical bowling coach
 
[VIDEO] A brief overview of Waqar Younis' bowling coaching methodology and style

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/4e5ttu" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

Lol, i don't really see any earth shattering technical advice or strategic analysis, discussion
 
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Savak said:
<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/4e5ttu" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

Lol, i don't really see any earth shattering technical advice or strategic analysis, discussion
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It’s a day in the life video, I don’t really expect him to be giving an entire technical breakdown a day before a Test match. At best you’ll get something like the bit about load he was telling Musa Khan about at the end of the video.

He’s achieved some decent results in getting Shaheen, Rauf, and Hasnain to improve. I don’t think the stint has been as bad as his Head Coach stints.
 
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Thunderbolt14 said:
It’s a day in the life video, I don’t really expect him to be giving an entire technical breakdown a day before a Test match. At best you’ll get something like the bit about load he was telling Musa Khan about at the end of the video.

He’s achieved some decent results in getting Shaheen, Rauf, and Hasnain to improve. I don’t think the stint has been as bad as his Head Coach stints.
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He is an economical decent/okayish option for the PCB. Just like they thought they would save some money by giving Misbah two jobs.

Not a bad idea by Wasim Khan, but competence should be the first criteria.
 
This is his 4th stint as the national bowling coach (to add to his 2 spells as head coach). Sure he was an incredible bowler, an ATG, but perhaps it’s time to admit that he’s just not cut out for coaching at the very highest level. The PCB should utilise his skills elsewhere.
 
Lol. Bharat arun is 10 times better than the burewala express.
Every single indian pacer has improved, even the perennialy average one, meanwhile Mr Younis has nothing to show.
 
Posters: being an ATG bowler doesn’t mean you’ll be a good bowling coach.

Also posters: let’s hire Muhammad Asif.
 
The most shameless and useless coach in our history.

Repeatedly fails in every single tenure, learns nothing, sits in commentary box and when another vacancy comes has the gall to ask for another turn.
 
fast bowlers bowling no balls is standard now with Pakistan cricket,

But spinners are also starting to partake in this trend.
 
7 no balls in the first innings by Pakistani bowlers

6 no balls already in the second innings.
 
One of the most dull coach I have ever seen.Since PCB runs by most incompetent people wonder people Waqar keep getting job. Even Fiji/Kenya will not hire him for job. This guy has no talent, lazy attitude and only good in self-promoting.
 
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another test where opposition seamers have out performed pakistans so far.
 
Waqar is a failed coach there's no doubt about that he is not competent or professional to even be at that position an elite level requirment for intl bowling coach.

But not all blame lies with him and to pin everything on him is unfair , its domestic cricket coaching at fc level and domestic pitches that we are not producing pacers that are of sound domestic quality where a crop can transition to intl level quality, atm we are producing club level cricketers with suspect fitness and athleticism .

Now hasan ali has always blown hot and cold he is a white ball cricketer , jury has always been out whether he test quality with red ball.

Shaheen has all the ingredients but I have a funny feeling he is hitting his ceiling ability wise and has fudged his age by 6/7 yrs I'm not seeing any development where you see the transition from an Good bowler to a bowler like eg rabada average in low 20s and strike rate under 50 , having no proper partner is also effecting him .
 
No justification at all for further regression in fast bowling department let alone any improvement. He has worked with a lot of Pak pacers at international level by now and we are yet to see a single memorable performance other than maybe against Srl and BD.

Currently I dont think him being in the dressing room is making any difference.
 
Here’s what England’s data team, cricviz, said (before the last burst of wickets):

Our Expected Wickets model suggests that Pakistan have bowled far better than the scorecard suggests. The Expected Score is 162-5, but Pakistan - through a mixture of good batting and dropped catches - have taken just 1 wicket. Impressive resistance from South Africa

———
No need to panic.
 
mazkhan said:
Waqar is a failed coach there's no doubt about that he is not competent or professional to even be at that position an elite level requirment for intl bowling coach.

But not all blame lies with him and to pin everything on him is unfair , its domestic cricket coaching at fc level and domestic pitches that we are not producing pacers that are of sound domestic quality where a crop can transition to intl level quality, atm we are producing club level cricketers with suspect fitness and athleticism .

Now hasan ali has always blown hot and cold he is a white ball cricketer , jury has always been out whether he test quality with red ball.

Shaheen has all the ingredients but I have a funny feeling he is hitting his ceiling ability wise and has fudged his age by 6/7 yrs I'm not seeing any development where you see the transition from an Good bowler to a bowler like eg rabada average in low 20s and strike rate under 50 , having no proper partner is also effecting him .
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Hasan's strength is red ball cricket.
Right now he running well below his capacity because he is fatigued from playing 9 first class matches in a span of a month and a half.
His pace is 10 kph down and his body is just not responding.

This comes down to the bowling coach again, who didn't have hasan in his plans and didn't instruct him midway of the playing season to conserve his body so that he could be in good condition for this test series.

Even i could see in the practice sessions that hasan was well below par, yet waqar couldn't see it and played him in this test when his body was not ready.
Similar case with Naseem who was persisted even though he was not in form.
 
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Thunderbolt14 said:
Here’s what England’s data team, cricviz, said (before the last burst of wickets):

Our Expected Wickets model suggests that Pakistan have bowled far better than the scorecard suggests. The Expected Score is 162-5, but Pakistan - through a mixture of good batting and dropped catches - have taken just 1 wicket. Impressive resistance from South Africa

———
No need to panic.
Click to expand...

Less bright side of things:
Pakistan have been much shorter with the new ball so far, compared to the first innings. Their average length has been 90cm shorter, and their pitched up percentage has dropped from 36% to just 8%. As a consequence, they are finding 40% less swing.

———
In other words, Shaheen and Hassan were good but not good enough with the new ball.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Less bright side of things:
Pakistan have been much shorter with the new ball so far, compared to the first innings. Their average length has been 90cm shorter, and their pitched up percentage has dropped from 36% to just 8%. As a consequence, they are finding 40% less swing.

———
In other words, Shaheen and Hassan were good but not good enough with the new ball.
Click to expand...

Hasan is a non factor in this test. His body is just not responding. Compare his bowling in this test to how he was doing in the QEA trophy. He is down on 10 kph atleast. The strength is just not there.
Unfortunate but I hope they rest him in the next test. It serves no purpose by playing him in this condition.
 
Waqar is a great technical coach. He needs a role like M. Yousuf has and should work with bowlers at the national/domestic level. Bowlers should be technically sound before they play at the international level because once you’re in the Pakistan team...it’s all about execution. Right now our international bowlers are fixing their flaws and unable to execute simple bowling plans.
 
Pakistani's fast bowlers have never been as ineffective as they have been during Waqar's various tenures as coach, bowling coach, captain.

He seems to have an ability of taking young promising bowlers with real pace, and turning them into medium pacers who can't get wickets. Sami, Amir, Naseem, Faheem, increasingly Shaheen etc etc
 
Why not judge him on his claim that he would make Shaheen, Naseem and Abbas world beaters within 2 years?

Somehow two of them have been sacked before he has :))

Not only is it high time for Waqar to leave he also needs to be blacklisted for any future coaching roles.
 
coy0607 said:
Pakistani's fast bowlers have never been as ineffective as they have been during Waqar's various tenures as coach, bowling coach, captain.

He seems to have an ability of taking young promising bowlers with real pace, and turning them into medium pacers who can't get wickets. Sami, Amir, Naseem, Faheem, increasingly Shaheen etc etc
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Shaheen was as fast as Nortje today. But yes I generally agree.
 
Waqar Younis and fast bowlers.

Well. Just a thought came to my mind after listening to former fast bowlers' views on Waqar's coaching style of work hard work hard.

Can't really put into words. But just noticed a pattern.

He is into his 4th coaching tenure now.

1. 2006. Only lasted a few months. Less than 6 I believe. So too small of a sample size. Umar Gul played 7 tests in that tenure. Did well in the home series against WI.

2. 2010-2011. Umar Gul suffers multiple injuries and his career virtually ends in 2012 after declining at an alarming rate post 2011 wc.

3. 2014-2016. Junaid Khan suffers serious injuries. Is never the same bowler after his return. Mohammad Irfan breaks down during WC and is out of action for a long time. Sohail Khan get injured during WC as well.

4. 2019-present. Mohd Amir's dwindling career comes to a halt by a retirement(or unavailability) after a scuffle with Waqar.
 
How is it ok for Naseem and Shaheen to bowl No balls regularly in Tests?

Who is going to explain this?
 
I was personally expecting a bit better as bowling coach than what he has done so far. None of the pacers that have been with him have improved much in any aspect other than maybe Shaheen’s inswing but other than that even with Shaheen who appears to be a keen learner he hasnt been able to do much especially in red ball cricket.

It will be his two years now in few months and to be honest nothing much to show for his performance.
 
The ineffectiveness and mediocrity of our bowling, pacers in particular, over the entirety of his current tenure is yet another clear indictment of his coaching ability. As if he hadn't been given enough chances before.
 
Waqar on criticism of him and Misbah:

"Criticism is always good. Critics make you a better person. They give you an opportunity to eradicate any weaknesses. I’m not really bothered about who is criticising whom. If someone is criticising me then I look into what is being said and see what I can improve upon. I just try to focus on my job and work on improving Pakistan’s bowlers."
 
Waqar younis, a bad bad bowling coach

Before being made the bowling coach waqar said that if given 2 years with fast bowlers he will make them world class. But wt we see that most of our bowlers to spend time with him have regressed.
With today's bowling performance from our fast bowlers on a pitch offering both seam n swing our fast bowlers have been bad to say the least so much so that on a fast bowlers track spinners are bowling.
Had eng won the toss they surely would have dismissed our team for under a 100 again today.
If waqar has an iota of shame he should resign n notcome near the Pak cricket team again.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Coaches will say they can only do so much. Once the players enter the field, it's down to them <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvsPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvsPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/guMGqJ2yCl">pic.twitter.com/guMGqJ2yCl</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1416082022724931586?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 16, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Listening to Waqar Younis's commentary, you can understand why he was a bad coach

So listening to Waqar Younis and his views are ridiculous. Now even i get why he was a bad coach.

He says he would had played Hasan Ali here just because of experience. Even though Hasan Ali has fallen in the pecking order.

He even said that sending in Shadab khan above the order is a bad move because he takes time to get settle in, has this guy not watched shadab at Islamabad united?

Baffling views and no surprise why he was a bad coach.
 
Major said:
So listening to Waqar Younis and his views are ridiculous. Now even i get why he was a bad coach.

He says he would had played Hasan Ali here just because of experience. Even though Hasan Ali has fallen in the pecking order.

He even said that sending in Shadab khan above the order is a bad move because he takes time to get settle in, has this guy not watched shadab at Islamabad united?

Baffling views and no surprise why he was a bad coach.
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Gautam Gambhir seems to know more than Waqar about Pak cricket. He's the one suggesting promoting shadab.
 
Major said:
So listening to Waqar Younis and his views are ridiculous. Now even i get why he was a bad coach.

He says he would had played Hasan Ali here just because of experience. Even though Hasan Ali has fallen in the pecking order.

He even said that sending in Shadab khan above the order is a bad move because he takes time to get settle in, has this guy not watched shadab at Islamabad united?

Baffling views and no surprise why he was a bad coach.
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What baffles me is that you think Shadab is the new Inzy after shadab’s performance in the ‘PSL’ which is far inferior than international cricket
 
Waqar also saying that 'he's surprised by Babar's defensive field settings, can't win without wickets', which is accurate. Not as bad of a coach as people make him to be
 
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