Was County Cricket the only reason why Pakistan fielded GOAT teams during the 80s-90s?

[Suleiman]

Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Javed Miandad
Waqar Younis

4 of the all time greatest to have played the game. We can even say they are GOATs in one way or the other.

All 4 played in English county cricket and ended up becoming greats.. Was county cricket what pushed them to become the best ever?

Was the Pakistan domestic cricket system as bad then as it has been in recent years, that we mooched off a superior system abroad to fine tune our hidden talented players?

If not county cricket then what was the reason? How do we explain the sudden drop in quality, class and courageousness from 1980s-1990s to 2000s then to 2010s and beyond?

 

[Heisenberg111]

Well in 2000's Pakistan had a good team. Pakistan's highest ever rating in test cricket (120 points) was achieved in 2006, when Pak won against England, India and Sri Lanka in a row. But the last decade saw some serious drop in quality from the 80's and the 90's thats for sure.

 

[Ab Fan]

I may not be completely right but my understanding is also the same. That Pakistan team always had genuine talent and those talents excelled and brought results because they were fine tuned by the county cricket stint.

In 70s and 80s, both Pakistan and India had poor cricket administration. Things obviously changed for India post 2000.

 

[Savak]

I don't agree with county cricket being the reason for the success of Pakistan Cricket. Sure it may have helped polish your personality but back then in that era, country cricket was the IPL level pay for the cricketers of that time.

So many of our players after the W's played county cricket but none of them became world beaters

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Cricket became more structured and sophisticated in starting from late 90s and before that only England, Australia, South Africa and NZ had a proper infrastructure.
Other teams followed suit by restructuring their system, Pakistan like we all know were too hesitant/proud/reluctant to change the ways. Now we are paying the price.

 

[Varun]

I have a tangential question: how come county cricket polished so many sub-continental players (also Tendulkar, Ganguly, Zaheer, Dravid, Pujara) to make them good/great players but England are always such a bog average mid-tier team relying on South African imports?

 

[szrana007]

I have a tangential question: how come county cricket polished so many sub-continental players (also Tendulkar, Ganguly, Zaheer, Dravid, Pujara) to make them good/great players but England are always such a bog average mid-tier team relying on South African imports?

How is England a mid tier team?lol. They have won everywhere in test cricket in the last 20 years. Also won a WC and a WT20.

 

[Varun]

How is England a mid tier team?lol. They have won everywhere in test cricket in the last 20 years. Also won a WC and a WT20.

They always seem to be #3 or #4 or #5 and when they won in Australia or India these teams were at their lowest ebb and they had to rely on Pietersen and Trott and South African imports. These days they lose tests to everyone at home - West Indies, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Pakistan, you name it. Until the last few years, they were quite a terrible ODI team as well.

 

[Hasan123]

A major reason not the sole reason.

 

[pillionrider]

I have a tangential question: how come county cricket polished so many sub-continental players (also Tendulkar, Ganguly, Zaheer, Dravid, Pujara) to make them good/great players but England are always such a bog average mid-tier team relying on South African imports?

You can polish a diamond. What do you do if all you have is coal

 

[Ab Fan]

They always seem to be #3 or #4 or #5 and when they won in Australia or India these teams were at their lowest ebb and they had to rely on Pietersen and Trott and South African imports. These days they lose tests to everyone at home - West Indies, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Pakistan, you name it. Until the last few years, they were quite a terrible ODI team as well.

Their cricketers don't have innate talent. The innate talent mostly goes to soccer.

County cricket follow the policy, "Sadak se uthakar star bana dunga isse".

 

[NishanKonar]

I have a tangential question: how come county cricket polished so many sub-continental players (also Tendulkar, Ganguly, Zaheer, Dravid, Pujara) to make them good/great players but England are always such a bog average mid-tier team relying on South African imports?

Coz their best athletes play football , not cricket

Given that cricket is not most popular sport in England & pays peanuts compared to football, its remarkable how England has given good account for themselves in cricket

 

[Varun]

Coz their best athletes play football , not cricket

Given that cricket is not most popular sport in England & pays peanuts compared to football, its remarkable how England has given good account for themselves in cricket

I don't even watch football but I know England get smashed there too.

Germany, Brazil, France etc. are the good football teams.

 

[karthikc]

I don't even watch football but I know England get smashed there too.

Germany, Brazil, France etc. are the good football teams.

How many countries play competitive football?

How many countries play competetive cricket?

 

[Pakhs]

How many countries play competitive football?

How many countries play competetive cricket?

Football and cricket has no comparison. England is a footballing giant you would be a footballing giant even if you can stay in top 10 every now and then. Cricket is a sport played between 3/4 serious cricket teams.

 

[Pakhs]

I am not sure which county cricket can produce players like Imran and Wasim? Those types of players do not need county its the other way around. These players did not go and play county cricket ad became good they were smashing it from the first day.

 

[Zaz]

It doesnt explain why the likes of saeed anwar inzy and yousuf were stars

They hardly played any county cricket in their formative years

 

[Hyperion66]

Counties were massively benefitted from them as well. People talk as if counties did them a favor letting them play. Actually some people are still struggling to come to terms with the fact that right now what Pak is facing is a severe talent drought, which may change in future but right now Pak simply doesn't have exciting talents bar a couple I think and I am being generous. No matter how many county matches Abbas play he will stay a middle aged trundler with questionable fitness.

County or not Imran, Waqar and Wasim were destined to be greats of the game. Pak fielded their best team in history because they had the best talents in their history during 80's and 90's. On the current lot, jitni bhi county khilalo inhe kuch nehi hone wala.

 

[Zeshan547]

Counties were massively benefitted from them as well. People talk as if counties did them a favor letting them play. Actually some people are still struggling to come to terms with the fact that right now what Pak is facing is a severe talent drought, which may change in future but right now Pak simply doesn't have exciting talents bar a couple I think and I am being generous. No matter how many county matches Abbas play he will stay a middle aged trundler with questionable fitness.

County or not Imran, Waqar and Wasim were destined to be greats of the game. Pak fielded their best team in history because they had the best talents in their history during 80's and 90's. On the current lot, jitni bhi county khilalo inhe kuch nehi hone wala.

Thread Closed, you nailed it.

 

[Buffet]

Well in 2000's Pakistan had a good team. Pakistan's highest ever rating in test cricket (120 points) was achieved in 2006, when Pak won against England, India and Sri Lanka in a row. But the last decade saw some serious drop in quality from the 80's and the 90's thats for sure.

You are correct about peak rating in history by Pakistan happening in 2006, but not about 120 points. Pakistan's peak rating in test cricket is 112. One point above Misbah's team got.

Here are rating points after Pakistan won against Eng, India, and SL.

 

[Varun]

How many countries play competitive football?

How many countries play competetive cricket?

So England are average in a sport where lots of teams play. And England are middling in a sport where fewer teams play. What's your point?

 

[shah_1]

Nooooooooo

We had strong club cricket in Pakistan, it hardly exists now. All of the greats are product of club cricket

 

[Saj]

No.

Work ethic, their desire to play Test cricket, their desire to win matches for their country, their hunger to succeed, their desire to play for their country.

 

[Markhor]

I am not sure which county cricket can produce players like Imran and Wasim? Those types of players do not need county its the other way around. These players did not go and play county cricket ad became good they were smashing it from the first day.

That's totally mistaken and not based in reality of how cricketers develop. None of the top cricketers are "smashing it from day one" but have been trained and nurtured through a system. Now because Pakistan's domestic system even then was so dysfunctional, County Cricket became the finishing school.

Imran debuted in Tests in 1971 and admitted he was nowhere near ready. He didn't even know how to mark his runup. It was John Parker at Worcestershire, who did coaching courses under Harry Crabtree, that helped remodel his whole action.

He moved to Sussex in the mid-1970s and John Snow helped him further.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

No. We had good school cricket. Good club cricket. Our country was in a better place overall and you had intelligent and well educated people pursuing cricket. Now we have no school cricket. Awful club cricket. And mostly uneducated poor people from villages pursuing cricket. I do not mean to sound classist here at all but it’s the truth

 

[Heisenberg111]

You are correct about peak rating in history by Pakistan happening in 2006, but not about 120 points. Pakistan's peak rating in test cricket is 112. One point above Misbah's team got.

Here are rating points after Pakistan won against Eng, India, and SL.

View attachment 105952

Pakistan achieved 120 rating points after the annual update on 12 July 2006. They were ranked 2nd back then not 3rd.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2006...-above-england-in-world-test-rankings/1800622

 

[Zaz]

No.

Work ethic, their desire to play Test cricket, their desire to win matches for their country, their hunger to succeed, their desire to play for their country.

But why is this? In the past there wasnt a choice It was test cricket and later odi cricket or bust You had to have desire to play these formats to become a succesful pakistani cricketer and get county contracts

this has changed since t20 cricket came to the fore
How many of our players look to play and improve their 4 day game? Everyone seems to be only interested in t20 contracts and the leagues now Quick n short cricket hardly anyone looks to put serious work into test cricket anymore Amir is a perfect example Harris like youve documented last played fc over a year back

Until pakistan doesnt give less priority to t20 cricket and put the focus back on 4 day cricket the demise of our longer formats will continue

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan achieved 120 rating points after the annual update on 12 July 2006. They were ranked 2nd back then not 3rd.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2006...-above-england-in-world-test-rankings/1800622

Here is July - Pakistan with 109 points. In Aug Pakistan got to 112 points. In June Pakistan had 109 points. That's why I said 112 was the peak and Misbah also got to 111 points if I recall it right.

I am looking at ICC website directly.

 

[moghul]

In 80s and prior to that, almost all the player were coming from Lahore and Karachi, and the pool of the players was much smaller, but the quality was much better. The main reason was school and club cricket was very well established.

Many, if not most of the school kids used to play some game and cricket was the most popular sport. I have many school going nephews in Pakistan and hardly anyone of them is actively playing cricket and hardly any school has a decent cricket team or game in their calendar.

 

[Junaids]

Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Javed Miandad
Waqar Younis

4 of the all time greatest to have played the game. We can even say they are GOATs in one way or the other.

All 4 played in English county cricket and ended up becoming greats.. Was county cricket what pushed them to become the best ever?

Was the Pakistan domestic cricket system as bad then as it has been in recent years, that we mooched off a superior system abroad to fine tune our hidden talented players?

If not county cricket then what was the reason? How do we explain the sudden drop in quality, class and courageousness from 1980s-1990s to 2000s then to 2010s and beyond?

Yes, but it started a decade earlier.

This was the full-strength late seventies team:

1. Sadiq Mohammad (Gloucestershire)
2. Majid Khan (Glamorgan)
3. Zaheer Abbas (Gloucestershire)
4. Asif Iqbal (Kent)
5. Javed Miandad (Sussex)
6. Mushtaq Mohammad (Northants)
7. Imran Khan (Sussex)
8. Sarfraz Nawaz (Northants)
9: Intikhab Alam (Surrey)
10. Wasim Bari
11. Sikander Bakht

9 out of 11 were County cricketers!

 

[MMHS]

Yes, but it started a decade earlier.

This was the full-strength late seventies team:

1. Sadiq Mohammad (Gloucestershire)
2. Majid Khan (Glamorgan)
3. Zaheer Abbas (Gloucestershire)
4. Asif Iqbal (Kent)
5. Javed Miandad (Sussex)
6. Mushtaq Mohammad (Northants)
7. Imran Khan (Sussex)
8. Sarfraz Nawaz (Northants)
9: Intikhab Alam (Surrey)
10. Wasim Bari
11. Sikander Bakht

9 out of 11 were County cricketers!

Wasim Rana probably played for minor County and Asif Masood in County as well.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Here is July - Pakistan with 109 points. In Aug Pakistan got to 112 points. In June Pakistan had 109 points. That's why I said 112 was the peak and Misbah also got to 111 points if I recall it right.

I am looking at ICC website directly.


View attachment 105958

Before the annual update on 12th July 2006, Pakistan's rating points were 109. On 12th July 2006, rating points were increased 120 after the update. After losing the test series in England on 20th August 2006, the rating points got reduced to 112. So for a month and a bit, Pakistan's rating was 120 points which is the best ever for Pakistan.

 

[Yk313]

Were Imran, Majid and Burki in the Aitchison team? I do not mean together but at some point played for it, if I am not mistaken?

Zaheer was captain at GC and KU if I am not mistaken?

To echo the point of another poster above, none of my nephews, cousins or anyone I know of plays cricket at school. Practically abandoned the sport at school level.