Was Joe Root's 100 today selfish by Pakistani fan's standards?

[W63L35]

Around 2 weeks ago, Babar Azam scored following 100 vs England on this very ground at Nottingham.

Many of us Pakistani fans crucified Babar for playing a "selfish" innings when setting up a target of 341. Babar scored 115 runs at a S/R of 102.67.

Today Joe Root scores 107 runs at almost IDENTICAL S/R of 102.88 while chasing 348 runs on the same ground.

Question to the Pakistani fans who labelled Babar's inning as selfish, would they also labell Root's 100 as selfish? If yes, why? If no, why not?

Keep in mind, Root exactly what total he was supposed to chase? So he should have batted at much better S/R but he did not.

Babar was setting the target, so he had to play each ball on it's merit.


Score cards for both innings:






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Not to mention, nobody called Babar's innings from today's match a selfish inning where he scored 63 runs at a much lower S/R of 95.45. Wonder why?

 

[chacha kashmiri]

The 92 curse struck England today
Not sure they’re guaranteed a place in the final on that billing

 

[Ronaldo7]

"He couldn't finish the game off so was selfish" is the general pakistani perception when someone scores a hundred and then gets out.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Nobody called Babar's innings selfish because the intent was visible. He was actually trying to play for his team.

 

[waleed88]

Around 2 weeks ago, Babar Azam scored following 100 vs England on this very ground at Nottingham.

Many of us Pakistani fans crucified Babar for playing a "selfish" innings when setting up a target of 341. Babar scored 115 runs at a S/R of 102.67.

Today Joe Root scores 107 runs at almost IDENTICAL S/R of 102.88 while chasing 348 runs on the same ground.

Question to the Pakistani fans who labelled Babar's inning as selfish, would they also labell Root's 100 as selfish? If yes, why? If no, why not?

Keep in mind, Root exactly what total he was supposed to chase? So he should have batted at much better S/R but he did not.

Babar was setting the target, so he had to play each ball on it's merit.


Score cards for both innings:


View attachment 92053



.

View attachment 92054






Not to mention, nobody called Babar's innings from today's match a selfish inning where he scored 63 runs at a much lower S/R of 95.45. Wonder why?

Stats without context are irrelevant.

Root's 100 was a contribution after his team lost 4 wickets for 100 runs chasing 350, and unlike Babar Azam they never come in during a run chase. His partnership with Butler brought them back in the game. In isolation his innings wouldn't be enough if they didn't have Butler on the other side.

Another case of dishonest stats from @W65L35

Please provide me stats of the last run chase Babar Azam scored a century in... and if we were in the game by the end of the match with Babar standing on the crease.

I can help you, it is the Pakistan vs Australia game in a dead rubber ODI from 2017

 

[asadee]

No it was not selfish and Pakistan fans are the worst and deserve all these embarrassments and CT win was a fluke according to mamoo

 

[gazza619]

Root has an identical role to Babar in the England team. Both very similar players.

I know Babar gets too defensive after reaching 80 as if he is just waiting to score a 100.

Hard to compare the two knocks though.,

To be honest England batting is full of power hitters so Root can play like Root. Babar does need to find a way to improve his SR by 10%.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Nope. Was an excellent knock. Just like Babars knocks which ARENT selfish

 

[waleed88]

Root has an identical role to Babar in the England team. Both very similar players.

I know Babar gets too defensive after reaching 80 as if he is just waiting to score a 100.

Hard to compare the two knocks though.,

Comparitively Root was accelerating from 80 to 100, and almost took no time to reach his century

 

[Zaz]

The difference is we dont have a buttler at the other end

Hence why some fans are harsh on babar and want him to play faster as theres no one on the other side who can make up the diff like butler can

 

[GenericBrand]

His SR was still 100+ which translates to 6 runs an over which was fine for the chase, especially when you consider he saw a middle order collapse unfold in front of him

 

[Sirris]

I don't care about Root.

Babar needs to develop a faster gear and clutch innings playing ability.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

His SR was still 100+ which translates to 6 runs an over which was fine for the chase, especially when you consider he saw a middle order collapse unfold in front of him

Root really only had butler and moeen for company
Stokes and Morgan didn’t really stick around

Weirdly Similar to sarfraz having to come in early after none of the top 3 stay in after getting starts

 

[Abdullah]

Yeah basically if Babar had done exactly same, he would be "blamed " for the loss
Was actually a good good innings from root, in real terms ( fans who know cricket)

 

[ads101]

yep, he lost his side the game today. I mean England scored two centuries yet didn't cross the line when the opposition scored zero.

When you score big, you have to accelerate. That was the difference, Root didn't do that, he went around a run a ball entire innings.

The reason why Root is tolerated as he's the only one who plays like that in the team and he scores big. Just like Babar. And those sort of players are useful in bowling friendly conditions where guys like for example Hales will get out as they don't have the technique for it.

The problem with Pakistan is that literally all the batsmen are like Root, incapable of acceleration except for Fakhar and Hafeez. Hence really to make huge totals, we have to bank on one of those scoring big. When Babar or Imam score big (and just them) he don't usually score big or quick enough for the pitch.

I guess also maybe harsh to criticise Babar, maybe he'd be more aggressive in a more aggressive better batting line up. Root doesn't have the same excuse unfortunately.

Babar is great for us because of our batting line up, and his SR is actually good compared to the rest even if he lacks acceleration, as he doesn't start slow either. But wouldn't be surprised if Root is slowly forced out of the team tbh, I can see Hales taking Root's spot eventually.

 

[waleed88]

Yeah basically if Babar had done exactly same, he would be "blamed " for the loss
Was actually a good good innings from root, in real terms ( fans who know cricket)

Last time Babar scored a 100 chasing a total? Even a total we managed to get close to that was over 300?

 

[QalandarFan]

Neither played “selfish” innings. The only thing is Babar slowed down a bit while getting to his hundred which, may have just been a case of being unable to find the gaps, etc.

 

[Abdullah]

Last time Babar scored a 100 chasing a total? Even a total we managed to get close to that was over 300?

Even if it was batting first and the other team chased down with a couple of overs left
Point still stands ( not going hard enough)

 

[barah_admi]

If this was Babar, we would have the likes of...well I won't mention his name, saying he should be dropped. Laughable clowns on here at times.

 

[The Viper]

yep, he lost his side the game today. I mean England scored two centuries yet didn't cross the line when the opposition scored zero.

When you score big, you have to accelerate. That was the difference, Root didn't do that, he went around a run a ball entire innings.

The reason why Root is tolerated as he's the only one who plays like that in the team and he scores big. Just like Babar. And those sort of players are useful in bowling friendly conditions where guys like for example Hales will get out as they don't have the technique for it.

The problem with Pakistan is that literally all the batsmen are like Root, incapable of acceleration except for Fakhar and Hafeez. Hence really to make huge totals, we have to bank on one of those scoring big. When Babar or Imam score big (and just them) he don't usually score big or quick enough for the pitch.

I guess also maybe harsh to criticise Babar, maybe he'd be more aggressive in a more aggressive better batting line up. Root doesn't have the same excuse unfortunately.

Babar is great for us because of our batting line up, and his SR is actually good compared to the rest even if he lacks acceleration, as he doesn't start slow either. But wouldn't be surprised if Root is slowly forced out of the team tbh, I can see Hales taking Root's spot eventually.

Root will be a mainstay of the England team. There is no one consistent as him. He plays pace and spin well, his batting is even more valuable on tough pitches. This England team, could collapse at any moment so they need some security which Root provides.

 

[sindhiboy]

the main point was that he came very early and eng were 117-4 when he was batting, he had to rebuild and stabilize

babar scored that century at run a ball when he came at 117-1.

Massive difference between the two innings

But I do think that root has not shown the ability to accelerate at the end of the innings. Williamson, Smith and obviously kohli are much better and know how to rapidly score towards the end

Maybe root needs to go to the ipl and learn how to hit

 

[Green Patriot]

Yes there would be 10 threads calling Babar selfish,unable to finish a match,leaving the team at clutch positions,getting a 100 and out,knowing the total and yet not accelerating,when the time to accelerate came he got out, just can't hit a 6 to save his life,how can he bat at a 100 SR on a ground like Trent Bridge which has the highest totals recorded,put pressure on his partner, yadi yadi yadi and a particular poster claiming on each of the 10 threads how selfish Azam is in the team because of his connections.

 

[Chokli]

Root has Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Butler, Stokes, Moeen.

Babar has Zaman, Imam, Hafeez, Sarfraz, Asif, Malik


...It's pretty self explanatory, I hope I don't have to explain anything.

 

[emranabbas]

Trust me people would get their answers if they actually watch the game rather than looking at stats on Cricinfo

 

[Joseph Gomes]

The difference is we dont have a buttler at the other end

Hence why some fans are harsh on babar and want him to play faster as theres no one on the other side who can make up the diff like butler can

I duuno why people would Babar change his batting style because there's not Buttler in Pakistan side? That's not Babar's job and he should never compensate for the team's failure.

 

[Hasan123]

Selfish is only used by Pakistan fans. Root can't play the way Butrler can so it isn't selfish. He can accelerate to a decent level but not like Buttler can. He is the reason they got so close anyway.

More analysis should be done on Morgan and Stokes ear weaknesses on facing off spin.

 

[angrypathan]

Babar is called selfish because he decelerated between 80 and 100 just to get the milestone.

 

[Bewal Express]

Let Babar be Babar. He is an excellent player and he needs to play a game he is comfortable with,if he fails then more often than not, PK will fail.

 

[Titan24]

Eng were 118/4 at one stage so Root had to stay. Still in overall context Babar and Root play a similar role but Babar pushed himself today when he hit Rashid for number of boundaries in one over.

On flat wicket if wickets are in hand both need to push harder but on difficult wickets there wickets are more important to their teams than any other wicket.

 

[giri26]

To be frank, can't compare both innings as it is not like to like comparison. Babar's criticism stemmed from the fact that Pakistan were batting first and were just 2 down for 220 odd when Hafeez got out. Babar did not push for runs in that game. Today's game England were 118/4 with some good hitters gone and Root had to consolidate allowing Buttler to do the demolition job. Both chalk and cheese, we cannot compare them. Different situations and scenarios.

 

[MRSN]

Root has Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Butler, Stokes, Moeen.

Babar has Zaman, Imam, Hafeez, Sarfraz, Asif, Malik


...It's pretty self explanatory, I hope I don't have to explain anything.

Pakistan's batting can collapse at any stagr so it's very very vital for Baber to keep one end safe and play run a ball. We all saw how Pak batting collapsed when they Baber got out playing reckless cricket to please some fans about his sr. He should play the way he does. Baber's role is very vital and he has a lot of pressure while batting for Pakistan. For me he is an essential part of our team. If he stays there we have higher chance of getting good scores.

 

[MRSN]

Let Babar be Babar. He is an excellent player and he needs to play a game he is comfortable with,if he fails then more often than not, PK will fail.

Some people need to see this post before uttering nonse about Baber. We all saw what Pakistan batting is capable of against WI.

 

[Red Devil]

Talking about his overall strike rate is pointless really. Babar was criticized because he slowed down when he was nearing his personal milestone. Look at Hafeez's innings from yesterday's game, he played with a sense of urgency throughout his innings and got out trying to accelerate even when he was in the 80s and could have played for his hundred. Babar on the other hand, decelerated and scored the last 20 runs at a painstakingly slow rate.

The last 25 balls he faced before reaching his hundred were as follows:

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 0 1

This stark contrast of run rate between his first 80 and the next 20 runs is why he was criticized. So again, showing his overall strike rate is simply pointless.

That being said, I think Babar is an amazing player and easily my favorite in the current lot but that doesn't mean we should pedestalize him and not criticize him when he makes such costly mistakes.

 

[James]

Root played a top quality innings.

At 120/4 the team could have easily unravelled and then folded way short of the target. As it was they got very close. This is important in the context of the tournament - if you are going to lose, then go down in flames with your pride intact. Joe is the Test captain and an experienced player - he knows this.

Root is not an accelerator, nor is he a finisher. His job in the side is to drop anchor - which he did exceptionally well yesterday.

It is well understood within the team that Bairstow, Morgan and Stokes should be the quick-scoring partner when Root is at the other end, and all three of them failed him.

Root and Buttler are heroes in defeat. Blame those who did not contribute.

 

[Ab Fan]

Not sure about Pakistan standards but overall both Root and Butter played solid innings. Root is an excellent ODI batsmen while Buttler is heading on his way to top 5-6 greatest ODI bats of all-time.

Chasing 348 is almost like a miracle and when you have a batting lineup like England have and still fails, tell you more about how tough it was to chase that total.

 

[Mobashir]

Root played brilliantly yesterday just like Babar did in that innings. And also like Babar is doing for some time now.

It was really funny to see Babar haters praising Root’s innings. That’s exactly the way he plays.
When Babar does it, it is called slow but when Root does it, it is called a brilliant innings.

 

[MRSN]

Talking about his overall strike rate is pointless really. Babar was criticized because he slowed down when he was nearing his personal milestone. Look at Hafeez's innings from yesterday's game, he played with a sense of urgency throughout his innings and got out trying to accelerate even when he was in the 80s and could have played for his hundred. Babar on the other hand, decelerated and scored the last 20 runs at a painstakingly slow rate.

The last 25 balls he faced before reaching his hundred were as follows:

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 0 1

This stark contrast of run rate between his first 80 and the next 20 runs is why he was criticized. So again, showing his overall strike rate is simply pointless.

That being said, I think Babar is an amazing player and easily my favorite in the current lot but that doesn't mean we should pedestalize him and not criticize him when he makes such costly mistakes.

Because Hafeez's role is not Baber's just like Butler's role is not Root. Baber is an anchor and he scores most of the boundaries in gaps mostly fours. He does not try big shot because that is not his game if he does likw he did last day there is high chance of getting out and then people will blame him for throwing his wicket away. Baber looks dynamic sometimes because he scores a lot of boundaries in PP overs and when the field is up. Once field is spread he can rotate strike and find odd boundaries.

 

[Boxer]

great way of comparing 2 different score cards and putting up a point

 

[bujhee kom]

Root is not an impact player.

 

[hadi123]

Root played a good innings. Wickets were falling all around him yet he stayed there and gave Buttler, the big hitting finisher, great support. If their partnership was even 5 overs longer, England would have won easily.

 

[W63L35]

Talking about his overall strike rate is pointless really.

Why?
Overall S/R is the one that contributes towards the total. Both teams scored 334 and 340 respectively.... and both totals were strictly based on overall S/R.

Babar was criticized because he slowed down when he was nearing his personal milestone. Look at Hafeez's innings from yesterday's game, he played with a sense of urgency throughout his innings and got out trying to accelerate even when he was in the 80s and could have played for his hundred. Babar on the other hand, decelerated and scored the last 20 runs at a painstakingly slow rate.

The last 25 balls he faced before reaching his hundred were as follows:

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 0 1

This stark contrast of run rate between his first 80 and the next 20 runs is why he was criticized. So again, showing his overall strike rate is simply pointless.

Let me explain with another example why your argument of "slowing down closer to milestone" is totally invalid and pointless.

Here are score cards on two Pakistani innings of identical scores of 364 each. Once vs NZ and another vs Zimbabwe.

vs NZ
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-zealand-tour-of-united-arab-emirates-2014-15

vs Zimbabwe
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/.../zimbabwe-vs-pakistan-5th-odi-pak-in-zim-2018

Total:
Pakistan 364/7 50.0 7.28 v NZ Sharjah 14 Dec 2014
Pakistan 364/4 50.0 7.28 v ZIM Bulawayo 22 Jul 2018



Scores at the end on 40 overs:
END OF OVER:40 | PAK: 239/4 | RR: 5.97 - vs NZ
END OF OVER:40 | PAK: 266/2 | RR: 6.65 - vs ZIM

Runs scored in last 10 overs:
Last 10 Overs: 125/3 | RR: 12.50 - vs NZ
Last 10 Overs: 98/2 | RR: 9.80 - vs ZIM


Does it matter why one team batted slow in first 40 overs and the pressed the gas.....or why the other team batted at a great S/R in first 40 but could only score 98 runs in last 10?

Point is - at the end of the day, both innings totals were 364 runs! Everything else is pointless.



Going back to Babar's 100... here is the break down of his total runs --- broken down by the intervals of 20 balls;



Even Babar got out at his 100th ball, he would scored 94 runs - that is a S/R of 94!!! We are unhappy with that??????

Babar scored that 100 (101 runs) in 104 balls.... that is a S/R of 97!! We are unhappy with that??????


Please recall, not too long ago most of us were deeply in love with the batsmen who could not score an ODI 100 if their life depended on it.

Please recall, not too long ago we used to be jumping up and down with joy at those 50s scored at the S/R 70-75..... and now were are questioning a 100 scored at a S/R of 102.67?

That being said, I think Babar is an amazing player and easily my favorite in the current lot but that doesn't mean we should pedestalize him and not criticize him when he makes such costly mistakes.

No. It's not about putting him on the pedestal.... or criticizing him. It's about our double standards!

 

[W63L35]

Root played brilliantly yesterday just like Babar did in that innings. And also like Babar is doing for some time now.

It was really funny to see Babar haters praising Root’s innings. That’s exactly the way he plays.
When Babar does it, it is called slow but when Root does it, it is called a brilliant innings.

Exactly.
That was the whole point of my OP.

 

[W63L35]

Stats without context are irrelevant.

Root's 100 was a contribution after his team lost 4 wickets for 100 runs chasing 350, and unlike Babar Azam they never come in during a run chase. His partnership with Butler brought them back in the game. In isolation his innings wouldn't be enough if they didn't have Butler on the other side.

So why did Root not bat like Butler? If he had, they would have won the match....as Babar was accused of not batting like Roy in that same very match in which Babar scored a 100!

Forget Butler, had Root batted even like Hafeez, they would have won the match!

Another case of dishonest stats from @W65L35

That's your opinion!!! No evidence!

Stats never lie. Stats are never dishonest.
People's opinions can be lies.
People's opinions can be dishonest.

I just copied and pasted scorecards from Cricinfo. You are most welcome to complain to Cricinfo if you find any on the number you find dishonest.

Please provide me stats of the last run chase Babar Azam scored a century in... and if we were in the game by the end of the match with Babar standing on the crease.

I can help you, it is the Pakistan vs Australia game in a dead rubber ODI from 2017

I was comparing two specific innings... not the whole history.

 

[W63L35]

To be frank, can't compare both innings as it is not like to like comparison. Babar's criticism stemmed from the fact that Pakistan were batting first and were just 2 down for 220 odd when Hafeez got out. Babar did not push for runs in that game. Today's game England were 118/4 with some good hitters gone and Root had to consolidate allowing Buttler to do the demolition job. Both chalk and cheese, we cannot compare them. Different situations and scenarios.

Please don't try to offend the posters here who were trying to compare Babar's 100 with Roy's 100 in that match!

 

[waleed88]

So why did Root not bat like Butler? If he had, they would have won the match....as Babar was accused of not batting like Roy in that same very match in which Babar scored a 100!

Forget Butler, had Root batted even like Hafeez, they would have won the match!



That's your opinion!!! No evidence!

Stats never lie. Stats are never dishonest.
People's opinions can be lies.
People's opinions can be dishonest.

I just copied and pasted scorecards from Cricinfo. You are most welcome to complain to Cricinfo if you find any on the number you find dishonest.





I was comparing two specific innings... not the whole history.

You have a history of posting stats to suit your agenda. Hence the dishonest stats.

You are posting comparing stats a batsman who scored an runs in the first innings to someone who batted in the second innings.

I have yet to see Babar bat chasing a 350, scoring at a run a ball 100 with his team losing 4 wickets.

In context Babar is an inferior batsman to Root because he has never even managed to chase a total, let alone score a steady century and keep in his team in the game in process.

 

[Robert]

Root played a top quality innings.

At 120/4 the team could have easily unravelled and then folded way short of the target. As it was they got very close. This is important in the context of the tournament - if you are going to lose, then go down in flames with your pride intact. Joe is the Test captain and an experienced player - he knows this.

Root is not an accelerator, nor is he a finisher. His job in the side is to drop anchor - which he did exceptionally well yesterday.

It is well understood within the team that Bairstow, Morgan and Stokes should be the quick-scoring partner when Root is at the other end, and all three of them failed him.

Root and Buttler are heroes in defeat. Blame those who did not contribute.

This. Root is the anchorman around whom others play shots. The rest of the top five are the thunderbats who left Buttler too much to do.

 

[Mobashir]

Exactly.
That was the whole point of my OP.

One major difference is that despite 10 years of experience Root, Williamson, Kohli and Smith can count and do count on others to accelerate so they can play at the pace they wish to.
Babar Azam, in his first World Cup has to do everything by his own.

If, from the other end, Buttler was striking it at 80-100, the RRR would have gone up to 10 very quickly and this same innings by Root would have been called poor. This is what Babar Azam has to deal with every match; batting first or chasing a target.

 

[Slim]

Why is Root being used as benchmark? Hes not a top ODI player. Hes just above average and suffers from similar issues as Babar.

 

[pratiktc]

Ofcourse it is.
By fan logic even Ricky Ponting 164 in 434 game is selfish

Benchmark of non selfish/non cowardly inns
1) Team must win
2) Best bowler of opposition team must be taken for atleast 2 15+ run overs
3) Batsman strike rate must never drop for any reason whatsoever throughout inns
4) Batsman must go from 80 to 100 in maximum 8-10 balls to show world that he is not concerned with milestones
5) Batsman must not celebrate his milestones with any exuberance lest people misconstrue him not to be team player
6) Batsman should get himself out just before innings/match is over to avoid accusations of playing for not out inns to boost average

 

[dhump]

Root while playing for England got the luxury to bat the way he bats he got big hitting players around him whom can accelerate the match for them Babur is unfortunate to be surrounded by players who mostly cant bat just 50 overs let alone accelerating as Butler and co could.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Kohli got 82 off 77 today despite coming in in a really comfortable position and batting till the 50th over, dare we call him selfish?

 

[W63L35]

Kohli got 82 off 77 today despite coming in in a really comfortable position and batting till the 50th over, dare we call him selfish?

Only after Kohli changes his name to Babar and starts playing for Pakistan!