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Was Mohammad Sami hard done by the selectors in limited-overs cricket?

Markhor said:
The ultimate what-could-have-been player.

Sami's problem is he bowls a couple of great deliveries at top pace but then will bowl some filthy looseners.

And as you see now - his head goes down, his line and length becomes wayward, he'll start conceding extras and the pressure is written all over his face.

Wish he had a better mentality as he's always had the skills.
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Tbf he did well even last year when he was recalled for Asia cup and WT20s

He clearly isn't much of a thinker and I also think he could have been much great if he had been captained by Wasim Akram and not Inzamam
 
He really improved last year in the Asia Cup and the World T20 but then that match against Australia cost us the game where he gave like 50+ runs. we lost by like 20ish runs and he gave away so many runs in no balls and wides and was rightly dropped after that
 
Hasan123 said:
Better odi bowler than Wahab will ever be.
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I have always liked him and I'll always continue to like him. He is not a test bowler. Could have been pretty useful ODI bowler who'd finish his overs before the 44th over.
 
GoUgandaCranes said:
I have always liked him and I'll always continue to like him. He is not a test bowler. Could have been pretty useful ODI bowler who'd finish his overs before the 44th over.
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I wouldn't be surprised if inzi called him up, he was a regular under inzi.

He can be useful if he doesn't lose it mentally. He is much more threatening than Wahab
 
Hasan123 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if inzi called him up, he was a regular under inzi.

He can be useful if he doesn't lose it mentally. He is much more threatening than Wahab
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I wouldn't compare him to Wahab as both are rubbish in their own ways. I think the two new ball rule and changing the ball by 35th over has really damaged our bowlers.

But those heady days of one 150 kph bowler coming after another seem to be long gone. I mean we literally replaced Wasim and Waqar's speed (only) with Akhtar and Sami and they were faster than the W's. If only Sami had that skill set too.

Can you imagine a 155 kph Akhtar in full tilt at one end and a brutal 155 kph Sami on the other end backed up by Muhammad Asif and an all-rounder like Abdul Razzaq.

At times Pakistan cricket just seems like endless opportunities squandered, an epic Greek tragedy where literally everyone is an Icarus who has flown too close to the sun.
 
Can't trust him. He is the fast bowling version of Amit Mishra.

Bowls really when his tail is up but as soon as the opposition takes the attack to him, he loses the plot completely. One of those players you simply cannot trust under pressure and who will help the opposition win matches from 50-50 situation more often than not.
 
GoUgandaCranes said:
I wouldn't compare him to Wahab as both are rubbish in their own ways. I think the two new ball rule and changing the ball by 35th over has really damaged our bowlers.

But those heady days of one 150 kph bowler coming after another seem to be long gone. I mean we literally replaced Wasim and Waqar's speed (only) with Akhtar and Sami and they were faster than the W's. If only Sami had that skill set too.

Can you imagine a 155 kph Akhtar in full tilt at one end and a brutal 155 kph Sami on the other end backed up by Muhammad Asif and an all-rounder like Abdul Razzaq.

At times Pakistan cricket just seems like endless opportunities squandered, an epic Greek tragedy where literally everyone is an Icarus who has flown too close to the sun.
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I'm comparing him to Wahab because that is his current competition.

Sami certainly had the skill set, there is mental issue with him. Just loses confidence after being for boundaries.

Our system doesn't allow for players to grow and improve. Look at the 2ws and Imran playing county cricket in England how it improved them. That's the importance of a good domestic system.

Pcb must invest in domestic cricket now that they are getting a bigger slice of the pie from the icc.
 
Hasan123 said:
I'm comparing him to Wahab because that is his current competition.

Sami certainly had the skill set, there is mental issue with him. Just loses confidence after being for boundaries.

Our system doesn't allow for players to grow and improve. Look at the 2ws and Imran playing county cricket in England how it improved them. That's the importance of a good domestic system.

Pcb must invest in domestic cricket now that they are getting a bigger slice of the pie from the icc.
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Sami is a far superior bowler to Wahab. He should have played more limited overs cricket for Pakistan.
 
4/12

Wow
[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] please change 'ODI' to 'Limited overs' in thread title
 
A mental midget if there ever was one.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Sami is a far superior bowler to Wahab. He should have played more limited overs cricket for Pakistan.
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Though I agree on what u said. Both of them are same when it comes to contribution as a package.

Pace - (y)
Swing (Sami- y, wahab - n)
Reverse swing (y)
Consistency in line and length (n)
Death bowling (n)
Under pressure (Sami - n , wahab - ok)

Both shared one thing in similar which is easy to unsettle their line n length hence lack accuracy in their bowling which made them have short int'l career.
 
Slog said:
Today I was just flicking through channels and on Geo Super Highlights of some random BPL match were coming and Sami was bowling a spell. It brought back some old memories with him bowling at great pace (must be 87mph+ atleast). The batsman were definitely struggling to hit him and you could only think with a sigh, 'Ahh what could have been.'

Everyone knows his struggles in Tests and how he was given a long lease of life and played way too long undeservedly. However I think he was hard done by in ODIs and his Test failures were used to drop him from ODIs as well whereas in reality he had been doing fairly well in ODIs despite his test failures and the consequent effect those had on his confidence. (He was a confidence player and lacked heart imo.)

Anyways he was dropped from ODIs in 2007. However in 2007 he averaged 27 and in 2006 he had averaged 30. Even in 2012 he was recalled for 2 games and took 3/19 in one but got smashed in the other.

His overall record is an average of 29 at an economy of 5 runs which isnt half as bad.

I feel he might have been more useful in ODIs and should have been dropped from Tests long back. Why did it have to be either both or nothing with him
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No - after a few years in his career, we realized Rao Iftikhar and Rana Naved were far better bowlers.

Rao was very economical with very good control over his line and length whilst Rana Naved was a genuine wicket taking option with a lot of variation.

By 2007 Gul became world class too and offered pace and reverse swing.

Sami was always rubbish and I'd say good riddance!
 
This is one of those cases where I always am left cursing Pakistani selectors who can't get in their thick heads that different formats function differently...
 
Echoing the post earlier:

Mohammad Sami is a classic case study to show that our selectors and team managements over the years have rocks for brains with IQs comparable to a log of wood.

Yes the guy is totally useless in Tests and can't hack it in that format so what should be the result of that? Obviously for them it was to give him a gazillion more chances to get it right and when they finally drop him they drop him altogether including in ODIs where he was doing well.

He's always been a good LOI bowlers and his statistics are testament to that. But our thick selectors can't get it that you can be good in one format and poor in the other so you should only play the one you're good

Such a talent. Also very unlucky to have absolute defensive Duds as captains. Was doing great when Wasim and Rashid were his captain's but then we get inzi who uses a 150k bowler for 10 over spells
 
Slog said:
Echoing the post earlier:

Mohammad Sami is a classic case study to show that our selectors and team managements over the years have rocks for brains with IQs comparable to a log of wood.

Yes the guy is totally useless in Tests and can't hack it in that format so what should be the result of that? Obviously for them it was to give him a gazillion more chances to get it right and when they finally drop him they drop him altogether including in ODIs where he was doing well.

He's always been a good LOI bowlers and his statistics are testament to that. But our thick selectors can't get it that you can be good in one format and poor in the other so you should only play the one you're good

Such a talent. Also very unlucky to have absolute defensive Duds as captains. Was doing great when Wasim and Rashid were his captain's but then we get inzi who uses a 150k bowler for 10 over spells
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Its not the stupidity of selectors, captain, and pcb. Its grave racism, nepotism, corruption that took away the career of many promising players be it from karachi or any other part of pakistan.
 
Sami got way too many chances than he actually deserved
 
He's making Pietersen look like a bit of a mug here.
KP's been smashing every other bowler
 
"Mohammad Sami still has a chance to do something for Pakistan in the future" : Dean Jones

Having played for close to two decades, Sami brings with him oodles of experience
Mohammad Sami may be at the wrong end of 30 but the fast bowler has not lost any of his sharpness. It is not just pace but the guile that has served the man from Karachi, Sind.

Having played for close to two decades, Sami brings with him oodles of experience. He looks fit as a fiddle and continues to chip away with wickets.

And that has not been lost on Dean Jones, his coach at Islamabad United with the former Australian cricketer saying that Sami could still figure for Pakistan.

"Sami still has a chance, believe it or not, to do something for Pakistan in the future and I honestly believe that," said Jones.

"He always plays well for us. I understand what Mohammad Sami is like. He is an amazing athlete who can bowl 140-145 at this age," he added.

Sami has again been impressive in this season's HBL Pakistan Super League (PSL), snapping up 10 wickets in nine fixtures. His best bowling figures this season has been 3-21 against the Lahore Qalandars at Sharjah, a match that went into a Super Over.

With Islamabad United already qualified for the play-offs and topping the table, Jones decided to give Sami and a few others a well deserved rest in their final League fixture against the Karachi Kings on Friday night.

"We eased him off tonight for the big push," Jones said, with an eye on the Qualifier against the Karachi Kings at the Dubai International Cricket Stadium on Sunday night.

Islamabad United finished with seven wins and three losses in 10 games and Jones said he would take that.

"I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't finish winning eight-two but 7-3, that's ok," he said.

Jones was delighted with how some of the young boys have shaped up over the course of the tournament.

"There are a lot of boys who have started to put their hands up which is a good sign in the dressing room. Hussain (Talat) has been great, Asif (Ali) has been a wonderful finisher, Faheem (Ashraf) has been brilliant. People asked me why we retained Asif, now they can understand why we are doing these things," explained Jones.

Looking ahead to the Qualifier, Jones had just this advice to give his players.

"Basically, I just have to remind them or tell them why they finished number one. What were the things that we did very well compare to the other teams," he said.

"We have a terrific team atmosphere, everybody is enjoying each other. I have to say that we have done more practice sessions than anyone, we have had more pool sessions than any other franchise, we have been unbelievable aided by our analytics and our coaching staff, working on tactics and strategy. So, there is no stone unturned. Sometimes, you give them too much information and you have to be mindful of that as well. But the boys have enjoyed some of the stuff we gave and they have had some fun," he added.

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/sport/cricket/jones-feels-sami-can-still-serve-pakistan
 
Sami is a better proposition than Wahab in ODI's, while Wahab is better for Tests especially on slow wickets.
In T20is, I won't trust either. Wahab's no ball issues are alone to leave him out from LOI's altogether. Sami buckles under pressure and loses it all.
Shoaib Akhtar once said back around 2010, If you tell Sami before a game, he would do well, he would get charged up and will do well regardless of his form. But if you tell it's not going to be his day or he is in poor form, he would go so down that he would just not be able to do anything.
 
I still remember the days when I first discovered PakPassion, around 1999-2000 and there was an article on the future prospect of this new sensation Mohammed Sami bowling with Shoaib Akhtar and forming a lethal combination of express bowling.. the two S's. Unfortunately it never happened...
 
Sami has lost Pakistan many games. Don't be fooled by his domestic performances
 
Savak said:
Sami has lost Pakistan many games. Don't be fooled by his domestic performances
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Yet you continue to support utter trash like Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad who can't perform in domestic games let alone internationals...
 
Slog said:
Yet you continue to support utter trash like Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad who can't perform in domestic games let alone internationals...
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You do know Sami is nearly 40 yrs old

A decade past his sell by date
 
No stopping this man! PSL 3 - all about discovering old talent!
 
Sami wasn't utilized properly in PCB. He was never a test class bowler. But he could have been big asset in ODI. One way to bypass his mental limitation in ODI was to bowl him from 15 to 40 overs.
 
certified choker

we have plenty of young pacers. Perhaps he should have played more between 2012 and 2015 where our pacers were either injured or just plain bad, but thats the past, no reason to bring him now in any format.
 
Turned on TV to the Global Canada T20 League. Mohammad Sami bowling:

6 6 4

Enough said.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">37 years old but still taking wickets - Mohammad Sami 5-14 today including a hat-trick for Karachi Region Whites versus Lahore Region Blues <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NationalT20Cup?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NationalT20Cup</a> <a href="https://t.co/389x1BhYbC">pic.twitter.com/389x1BhYbC</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1075090147518148610?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 18, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Abdullah719 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1075090147518148610
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What an athlet! Still bowling at 140+ km/hour I think! So fast at this stage! 4 out of his 5 wickets were bowled and one LBW. Classic dismassals for a fast bowler. Pakistan not only wasted a super talent by not guiding him well,but also deprived whole world from seeing him in international matches. Sami should have been played in.ODIs only , he was never a test or T20 prospects.
 
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Looking at Sami today makes me sad to see how someone who was once a regular and a senior player in the national side remained content with being a domestic cricketer in the end.

The guy played close to 50 test matches for Pakistan and 120 plus odis and some 10-20 T20's. There is no way anyone can claim he never got chances
 
Sami's stats pretty much shows how and why he was dropped. He had a great 2003 where he averaged less than 20. After that the slide is pretty steep for him.
He could have been managed well in 2007.
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td] ODI [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]4W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]overall [/td][td]87 [/td][td]121 [/td][td]29.47 [/td][td]4.99 [/td][td]35.4 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]year 2001 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]45.66 [/td][td]4.72 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]year 2002 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]26.72 [/td][td]5.07 [/td][td]31.5 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]year 2003 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]40 [/td][td]19.22 [/td][td]4.33 [/td][td]26.6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]year 2004 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]33 [/td][td]35.15 [/td][td]5.22 [/td][td]40.3 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]year 2005 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]47.42 [/td][td]5.1 [/td][td]55.7 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]year 2006 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]30.5 [/td][td]5.25 [/td][td]34.8 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]year 2007 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]26.85 [/td][td]4.94 [/td][td]32.5 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]year 2012 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]31.33 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]31.3 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]year 2015 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]- [/td][td]7.25 [/td][td]- [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
 
Savak said:
Looking at Sami today makes me sad to see how someone who was once a regular and a senior player in the national side remained content with being a domestic cricketer in the end.

The guy played close to 50 test matches for Pakistan and 120 plus odis and some 10-20 T20's. There is no way anyone can claim he never got chances
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It’s the age old Pakistani selection problem

If a player plays he plays all formats and if he warrants being dropped from one format he is dropped altogether

Sometimes I feel just for this reason Pakistan should have independent test and odi selectors
 
Was watching Shoaib Akhtar on ptv

He said Mohammad Sami was more talented with him with the new ball and had more skills. However he was mentally very weak and if you said something to him he would hold onto it, not let it go and have his confidence affected. Shoaib said that the Pakistani dressing room at the time was very toxic and if you were not as mentally strong then your career would slowly be destroyed. He said Yasir Hameed had same problem
 
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He was ideal for middle overs in ODI cricket just like Lockie Ferguson does it for NZ.

Never a new ball or death bowler, he was poorly managed by the managment.
 
Mohammad Sami - what’s his playing status these days?

Mohammad Sami, currently 39. What's his playing status these days ?

I see he last played 3 matches in Qatar T10 League.

Played in PSL 2019. Last List A match in 2019 and last FC match in 2018.
 
No. He was not hard done by selectors. He was simply too inconsistent. Also, Pakistan had other better bowlers.
 
Its not all about pace All the great bowlers had brains, confidence, brashness and personality that came through on the pitch in their bowling

Thats what makes a good bowler n thats what sami was missing
 
In those days we didn't have white ball or red ball cricket specialists so whenever you had a terrible red ball series you automatically got dropped for the limited overs formats as well.

Sami was pretty okay in white ball cricket, but always got dropped because of his red ball failures for the reasons mentioned above.

Things are very different now in Pakistan and cricketers get selected per format instead of as a total group.
 
I believed he couldve had a good t20 career under misbah. Misbah utilize sami better with isb united than any other captain he ever had.

Sami was a treat to watch. His run up was like a butterfly flying in the air
 
Zaz said:
Its not all about pace All the great bowlers had brains, confidence, brashness and personality that came through on the pitch in their bowling

Thats what makes a good bowler n thats what sami was missing
Click to expand...

But sami had pace to defend 10 runs in an over. He can bounce one off or bowl a yorker. He was good enough for t20 cricket.

It surprises me how sohail tanvir gets the t20 contracts when sami wouls had faired better in this format
 
Every match Sami played in, he lost a game for Pakistan
 
Mohd Sami , because of his pace , got more chances than he deserved. Other than pace he did not have much to trouble the batsmen, never developed other sills and did not use his brain much
 
Pace is pace. However it can only get you so far.

People need to remember the reason why Shoaib Akhtar was successful wasn't due to only his pace, but his ability to bowl lethal swinging yorkers.

I don't remember seeing him much as it was so long ago, but feel Sami didn't have the tactical nuances to set batsman up.

I'm worried Naseem Shah is headed the same way. The kid can bowl fast - But i'm yet to see real swing and seam from him to keep the batsmen honest.
 
AlphaFighter said:
Gul was much tougher mentally. Wahab is also much tougher mentally.

Sami needed 24/7 babby sitting which might have been possible if you have Imran, Wasim, Waqar at mid off, mid on every delivery but sadly he came about in the wrong era.
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Agree Gul was mentally tough as they come. Wahab also can play under pressure. Sami was a good bowler but when he lost his confidence in an Over it would carry over to other overs and he would leak runs.
 
observer1 said:
Pace is pace. However it can only get you so far.

People need to remember the reason why Shoaib Akhtar was successful wasn't due to only his pace, but his ability to bowl lethal swinging yorkers.

I don't remember seeing him much as it was so long ago, but feel Sami didn't have the tactical nuances to set batsman up.

I'm worried Naseem Shah is headed the same way. The kid can bowl fast - But i'm yet to see real swing and seam from him to keep the batsmen honest.
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He was not a 6-5 tall, fearsome and tearaway fast bowler. He was a short skiddy bowler with pace around 140 , not hard to handle at international level.
 
Sami was just too thick to succeed in a consistent basis. His seam was also too poor to get good batsman out.
 
Was Mohammad Sami, Pakistan's most tragically unfulfilled talent?

I remember watching him bowl in the early 2000s and he was exciting he had proper pace, and great out swing.

He was highly rated by external observers, but why didn't he fulfill his potential. Was it his own short comings? Poor captaincy? or bad coaching?

Discuss.
 
wakkkLDN said:
I remember watching him bowl in the early 2000s and he was exciting he had proper pace, and great out swing.

He was highly rated by external observers, but why didn't he fulfill his potential. Was it his own short comings? Poor captaincy? or bad coaching?

Discuss.
Click to expand...

I think we all know the most unfulfilled talent is Asif, followed by Amir.

My take-away over Sami was that he just wasn't that good. He had a lot of promise when he burst onto the scene with a memorable debut against New Zealand. And the pace certainly was there even when he was bowling in the PSL at 38 years of age. But the guy had no discipline and very erratic. As a result he used to get hammered. If you go and look at his numbers you will see he has absolutely horrendous numbers in every country except New Zealand where he is mediocre. On top of that injuries were there too.

As an ODI bowler he was good. But there too his career was very start stop. Can't remember him ever being a regular for a prolonged period of time.
 
He was highly skillful and had pace, fitness yorker, swing. Everything one could image in a tear-away facebowler.

Did not get a good coach who could take maximum out of his talent. Someone needed to guide him how to stick to good length ball more often. His test bowling cost him One-day place. Was dropped prematurely in 2007, and should have returned earlier than 2012.

Him before Ehsan Adil in 2015 WC would have been ideal.

Was a decent bat as well
 
He came in at a time when cricket was changing rapidly. Pitches were getting flatter and faster, ball tampering getting punished severely and ODI scoring rates were soaring. Batsmen were getting better at handling pace and floaty pace bowlers were getting dispatched easier than ever. Anyone who has watched cricket in that period would know that bowling on ODIs was getting a lot harder already. Only the ones who get generate bounce from a length were doing reasonably well and Sami rarely got the ball to do that. Just didnt have a strong wrist snap which shorter bowlers like him needed.
 
Sami was a bowler that peaked a little too early and after 2004 it always felt like he had alot to be desired. At that time there were two other pacers that had similar pace to Sami but also known as sprayguns. Fidel Edward's and Lasith Malinga. Malinga went on to cement a place in history as one of the great limited death overs bowler in the t20 era. Fidel Edward's came and went. Sami if he kept his cool could've been someone like Lasith Malinga. But he end up being more Fidel Edward's. He would produce that odd magical delivery but was very ordinary on his mediocre days. He had a genuine outswinger but could never control it.
Still he left some great memories from early on his career. And taking out the top 3 in the Sydney test was an amazing sight. If you read the stats after the Sydney test. You would find those were his only wickets in that series. And that kind of sums up Mohammad Sami for me.
 
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wakkkLDN said:
I remember watching him bowl in the early 2000s and he was exciting he had proper pace, and great out swing.

He was highly rated by external observers, but why didn't he fulfill his potential. Was it his own short comings? Poor captaincy? or bad coaching?

Discuss.
Click to expand...

He was a terrible bowler. Period. Pakistan gave him a trillion chances. He was always toothless and disappointed for his entire career. His stock ball was short and wide and he really shouldn't have played for Pakistan for as long as he did.
 
However I do have to say that if Sami had gone to Aitchison college then he probably would've had a longer career like another of his fast bowling compatriots
 
Usman said:
He was a terrible bowler. Period. Pakistan gave him a trillion chances. He was always toothless and disappointed for his entire career. His stock ball was short and wide and he really shouldn't have played for Pakistan for as long as he did.
Click to expand...

He was seriously quick but it’s a mystery to me why he didn’t set international cricket on fire.
 
Cric_lover4487 said:
He was seriously quick but it’s a mystery to me why he didn’t set international cricket on fire.
Click to expand...

I watched his career from start to finish and trust me, it is no mystery. This guy had no control whatsoever. The very odd good ball (which were extremely rare) were mixed in with plenty of just short and wide rubbish. Honestly ranks as one of the worst bowlers to play for Pakistan.
 
His 17 ball over mentioned amongst the worst overs in cricket:

Mohammad Sami, a Pakistani fast-bower, has played international cricket for 15 years and has represented Pakistan now and again. He is the ODI cricket’s longest-ever bowler.

The 35-year-old achieved this ominous feat during a match against Bangladesh at the 2004 Asia Cup. Sami came in to bowl the third over after Bangladesh had scored just 6 runs in their first two overs. The pacer bowled seven wides and four no-balls, and the batting team added 24 runs.
 
An enigma to the day he played his last game for Pakistan - so much promise but didnt achieve what he could have

Happy Birthday Sami:

Born: 24 February 1981 (age 41 years), Karachi, Pakistan
 
I did a thread on sami the odi bowler probably 10 or so years ago on here but i doubt i will find it.

Between 2001 and 2003 he was a top class ODI bowler. After that his performances, wickets got less, strike rate, average and econ rates sky rocketed and he was rightly left out of team after a while. Also at that time both shoaib akthar and rana naveed were better bowlers for team in shorter formats.
 
Mohammad Sami speaking in an interview:

“I had bowled 164kph and 162kph in international cricket but unfortunately ICC claimed that the bowling machine was not in right working at that time.”
 
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