Was Sourav Ganguly a better match winner than Javed Miandad in Test cricket?

[Hitman]

I remember a similar thread created by another poster a few years ago comparing Younis Khan and Sachin Tendulkar. I thought of creating this one. Please don't accuse me of being biased, I'm using the same logic that particular poster used.

Sourav Ganguly has won 6 MOM awards in 113.
Javed Miandad has won 5 MOM awards in 124 Tests.

Despite playing 11 less Test matches, Ganguly has won 1 more MOM award than Miandad in Test cricket. Doesn't this prove than Sourav Ganguly was a better match winner than Javed Miandad in Test cricket?

Link:

Test matches | Individual records (captains, players, umpires) | Most player-of-the-match awards | ESPNcricinfo

Find records of Most player-of-the-match awards in Test matches only on ESPNcricinfo.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Ab Fan]

Not much to seperate between them. Ganguly on his best days was also capable of running through lineups like a mini Stuart Broad.

In America and Europe,

Ganguly averages 54
Miandad averages 41

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Ganguly was also a superior ODI bat while Miandad played match losing knocks vs India in 1992 World Cup, England in 1992 WC Final( saved by Imran and Wasim) and again vs India in 1996 World Cup Quarter Final.

In 1992 World Cup, a 19 year Tendulkar outperformed him and won India the match vs some extremely dangerous fast bowlers. That's a match winner right there.

 

[TheSultan]

A match losing knock in a match you won? First I’ve heard of that!

MoM means nothing simply because sometimes it just comes down to the adjudicator and what they value. Invariably Pakistan’s superior matchwinning bowling compared to India’s historically pedestrian attack resulted in the bowlers getting MoM awards.

This topic is a bit of nonsense.

But what I will say is that Ganguly rightfully has won many matches for India and is probably the biggest Indian matchwinner between 1996-2003 after which the likes of Laxman, Sehwag and Dravid took over.

 

[sweep_shot]

Ganguly averaged around 42 in Test. Miandad averaged around 52.

Case closed.

Miandad wins by some distant.

 

[Justcrazy]

No , Miandad is a superior batsman. MOM is not the correct parameter to judge two batsmen. Many times despite good batting some bowler gets MOM.

 

[kron]

Ganguly averaged around 42 in Test. Miandad averaged around 52.

Case closed.

Miandad wins by some distant.

Would you say miandad is better than the great kohli?

 

[Hellion]

Miandad had home umpires who had never gave him out . And pitches were like parantha.

That's why he average 62 at home. But average 45 away.

Only slightly more talented than Babar/Ganguly level players

 

[sweep_shot]

Would you say miandad is better than the great kohli?

Kohli is obviously better than Miandad but this thread is not about Kohli.

Between Ganguly and Miandad, Miandad wins comfortably.

 

[Sir Alex]

Miandad had home umpires who had never gave him out . And pitches were like parantha.

That's why he average 62 at home. But average 45 away.

Only slightly more talented than Babar/Ganguly level players

In the West Indies, he avg only 33 - against thr best bowling attack of his time.

 

[Hellion]

In the West Indies, he avg only 33 - against thr best bowling attack of his time.

And also avg. of only 38 in Australia.

He wasn't a great player of pace like his fans think.

Could hit spin and medium pace

 

[big_gamer007]

Nah, in tests I’ll take Miandad.
However, in ODI’s Ganguly was a better bat.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Nah, in tests I’ll take Miandad.
However, in ODI’s Ganguly was a better bat.

In my opinion, Miandad was in class of his own. A clutch player with strong mentality

 

[kron]

Kohli is obviously better than Miandad but this thread is not about Kohli.

Between Ganguly and Miandad, Miandad wins comfortably.

But kohli averages less than miandad?

Yea miandad is better than ganguly. I never rated ganguly. Although you csnt really compare an opener with a middle order bat.

Ganguly was always poor vs pace and bounce. I never rate such players.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

I remember a similar thread created by another poster a few years ago comparing Younis Khan and Sachin Tendulkar. I thought of creating this one. Please don't accuse me of being biased, I'm using the same logic that particular poster used.

Sourav Ganguly has won 6 MOM awards in 113.
Javed Miandad has won 5 MOM awards in 124 Tests.

Despite playing 11 less Test matches, Ganguly has won 1 more MOM award than Miandad in Test cricket. Doesn't this prove than Sourav Ganguly was a better match winner than Javed Miandad in Test cricket?

Link:

Test matches | Individual records (captains, players, umpires) | Most player-of-the-match awards | ESPNcricinfo

Find records of Most player-of-the-match awards in Test matches only on ESPNcricinfo.

www.espncricinfo.com

Well, I never realized this but Dada was truly exceptional as test batter plus a better captain.

 

[Dhakar Pola]

Ganguly Vs Saeed Anwar comparison would be better in odi as both were openers.

In test we can talk about ganguly Vs miandad. As much as I have love for my fellow bengali brother Sourav I think miandad was better

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

But kohli averages less than miandad?

Yea miandad is better than ganguly. I never rated ganguly. Although you csnt really compare an opener with a middle order bat.

Ganguly was always poor vs pace and bounce. I never rate such players.

Miandad basically feasted on Indian trundlers and New Zealand for nearly 50% of his career runs at an average of 74 and 12 of his 23 centuries in just 46 out of his career of 124 games.

and averaged mighty 29 against the West Indies.



The paramount definition of Home Track Bully : The only place apart from Pakistan average above 50 is New Zealand.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Ganguly was a good player. His stats don't do him justice but it doesn't matter what filters you apply or how you cut the data someone with a test match batting average ( batting mainly in Asia) of 42 isn't a great player.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Ganguly was a good player. His stats don't do him justice but it doesn't matter what filters you apply or how you cut the data someone with a test match batting average ( batting mainly in Asia) of 42 isn't a great player.

His Average outside Asia is also 42.

He was not a "home track bully at home but absent aboard" like some other perceived ATGs of Tests.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

His Average outside Asia is also 42.

He was not a "home track bully at home but absent aboard" like some other perceived ATGs of Tests.

Seems like he didn't bully anywhere though.

 

[big_gamer007]

In my opinion, Miandad was in class of his own. A clutch player with strong mentality

What does class of his own even mean?

Miandad was good in tests, has some gaping holes in his resume but compared to Ganguly the test batsman, miandad was Bradman.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Seems like he didn't bully anywhere though.

Ganguly batted his entire career at number 5 or 6 while Miandad batted at the best position 4. That will always lead to a difference.
At position 4, Ganguly played 15 games at an average of 66 but you cant dislodge someone like Sachin from his position can you?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

What does class of his own even mean?

Miandad was good in tests, has some gaping holes in his resume but compared to Ganguly the test batsman, miandad was Bradman.

He had a great habit of getting under the skin of opposition and that made him really good. Even in his rough patch

 

[Kianig89]

Even Ganguly himself might say Miandad was better, Indian player of 90s bar Manjrekar rate Pakistan players of the past very highly

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Ganguly batted his entire career at number 5 or 6 while Miandad batted at the best position 4. That will always lead to a difference.
At position 4, Ganguly played 15 games at an average of 66 but you cant dislodge someone like Sachin from his position can you?

That's life sadly.

Stuart McGill could have been an ATG if Warne wasn't around. We can't determine greatness from ifs and buts.

 

[big_gamer007]

He had a great habit of getting under the skin of opposition and that made him really good. Even in his rough patch

Well yes he was a good test bat, no one denying that.

But when someone says player A was in class of his own, it gives an impression that world hasn’t seen a player like A before/after.

Miandad was a good batsmen but there are plenty of better batsmen than him.

He would struggle to make top 25 test batters of all time but should make it into top 50.

 

[NishanKonar]

That's life sadly.

Stuart McGill could have been an ATG if Warne wasn't around. We can't determine greatness from ifs and buts.

No way. Stuart MacGill never had the control to become a world class test bowler. He spreyed it too much. He actually did better when Warne was playing - feeding of the pressure created by Warne at the other end

When Warne retired - he got exposed

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

That's life sadly.

Stuart McGill could have been an ATG if Warne wasn't around. We can't determine greatness from ifs and buts.

I understand that, but Miandad, after looking at his stats, I feel has been over glorified by that last ball 6 to Chetan Sharma.
I am honestly surprised by his mediocre record against the West Indies and in Australia and England. Based on his legend, I thought it would have been far better than this. Miandad had two extra gears while facing India in Pakistan it seems and he loved New Zealand bowling thats it.

 

[TheSultan]

Oh there they go with MoM awards. Have to try and bring some it nerdy stats without context again.

You do realise that sometimes MoMs go to losing team players too. Eg Inzi and little Sachin got some in losing causes in the jeet lo dil series.

Ganguly - one thing I’ll give him is that he deserves a lot more respect that Sachin, Dravid and co because he put a stop to a lot of personal milestone chasing and tried to make India a serious side. But to compare to Javed, please stop this nonsense.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

He had a great habit of getting under the skin of opposition and that made him really good. Even in his rough patch

The only opposition he seemed to have truly bothered are Indian trundlers and New Zealand.
29 average against West Indies doesnt speak great skills against pace or getting under the skin.

 

[Hellion]

Even Ganguly himself might say Miandad was better, Indian player of 90s bar Manjrekar rate Pakistan players of the past very highly

Of course. Ganguly is gracious guy. He also said there's still talent in Pakistan. Very gracious gentle man

 

[kron]

Even Ganguly himself might say Miandad was better, Indian player of 90s bar Manjrekar rate Pakistan players of the past very highly

They do that because they want to make themselves appear better than they actually were. In reality india was a garbage team in 90s.

Pakistan also lost to Zimbabwe in tests with prime wasim and Waqar playing. Losses in SA and Australia as per usual. Struggle in west indies. Etc.

 

[kron]

No way. Stuart MacGill never had the control to become a world class test bowler. He spreyed it too much. He actually did better when Warne was playing - feeding of the pressure created by Warne at the other end

When Warne retired - he got exposed

Take mcgrath out if the so called great Aussie side ans they will finish 4th in all comps. Odi and tests. They were nothing special without mcg. Mcgrath yes that one player made the difference. He was that damn good

 

[ChennaiFan]

Heard Miandad was a gritty player. I watched him in the late years of his career and he was pretty average as it is normal for any player. Ganguly was a decent bat, but a very good captain. Looking at the stats, I would take Ganguly in my playing Test XI and ignore Miandad unless the venue is Pakistan.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

Miandad got favoured by biased Pakistani umpires..
I heard that it was impossible for bowlers to get him out LBW in Pakistan due to biased umpiring.
Plus, Ganguly was supreme leader and an honest cricketer.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Miandad got favoured by biased Pakistani umpires..
I heard that it was impossible for bowlers to get him out LBW in Pakistan due to biased umpiring.
Plus, Ganguly was supreme leader and an honest cricketer.

Are you implying Miandad was dishonest?

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Seems like he didn't bully anywhere though.

He had a great record in England though

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Miandad was obviously much better than Ganguly but benefitted from dodgy hope umpires and feasted on weak attacks

 

[DeadlyVenom]

He had a great record in England though

Ganguly was a fine player. He is well respected by us Pakistanis for what he did for Indian cricket.

I just don't think he is in the conversation against Miandad for test match batting.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Ganguly was a fine player. He is well respected by us Pakistanis for what he did for Indian cricket.

I just don't think he is in the conversation against Miandad for test match batting.

Agreed, Miandad is an atg and Ganguly was just good

 

[TheSultan]

Those that were not alive or in their nappies at the time, let me just give you a bit of context. The average of 29 was not unique to Miandad against the Windies. A lot of Pakistani players failed in the Windies. When the 1988 tour came about, the world was asking Miandad to prove himself in that series. Promptly, and never to duck a challenge, Javed scored a crucial ton in a series that would go down as a series for the ages.

For those that may have performed against the Windies - well what did it do for them? Did they win any series? What was the context of their runs?

Javed was no choker either. 1 World Cup final, one match saving innings after being 2 down early, matched by an even better innings in the semi final.

There are players who have got to wc finals and failed immediately having to rely on other factors to gift them a World Cup victory somehow.

Miandad was a legend and no amount of stroppy kids will change that

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Those that were not alive or in their nappies at the time, let me just give you a bit of context. The average of 29 was not unique to Miandad against the Windies. A lot of Pakistani players failed in the Windies. When the 1988 tour came about, the world was asking Miandad to prove himself in that series. Promptly, and never to duck a challenge, Javed scored a crucial ton in a series that would go down as a series for the ages.

For those that may have performed against the Windies - well what did it do for them? Did they win any series? What was the context of their runs?

Javed was no choker either. 1 World Cup final, one match saving innings after being 2 down early, matched by an even better innings in the semi final.

There are players who have got to wc finals and failed immediately having to rely on other factors to gift them a World Cup victory somehow.

Miandad was a legend and no amount of stroppy kids will change that

Miandad was just plain mediocre against the West Indies.
Now if we are talking about world cups, he definitely chocked against India in 92 and 96. A slow poke 58 out of 96 balls in the world cup final is being hailed as special ( I guess Virat Kohli's final innings was super special ), getting rescued by your ATG bowlers is just standing on the shoulders of the giants.
And seriously the selfishness of forcing himself into 96 world cup did a lot of disservice to Pakistan.

All the good and great players with long careers have magical peaks that's the reason they manage to get long careers. Its not unique to Miandad. Going to in history for the ages is a tall tall claim. Miandad's feasting on Indian bowling is epic and his last ball 6 will remain for ages, but along with those facts accept the hard reality of his mediocrity against the pace battery of West Indies too.

Taking this screenshot was not easy, Now this is Miandad's peak career. Average of 34 is still mediocre which dramatically falls in 90s. Shows how selfishly he stayed and shamelessly prolonged career

 

[Ab Fan]

In true sense, Miandad is not an ATG like Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Kohli and Sangakkara.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

In true sense, Miandad is not an ATG like Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Kohli and Sangakkara.

Yup, in Terms of just India bashing i think easily Andy Flower is an ATG. Even in this list are several players who have toyed with Indian trundlers over the history far better than Miandad it seems. Andy Flower and Younis Khan are mind boggling, considering a lot of others on the list played in the era of non-neutral umpires.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Miandad overall a much more dependable batter in his era and also way more dominant when he was playing in his comfort zone.

Make no mistake however , Ganguly was an absolute class batter and definitely underachieved mainly because of his obvious weakness against bounce exploited by SENA bowlers overseas and while Miandad made merry on home pitches , Ganguly didn’t take full advantage of it kind of like of Rahane also failed in India

 

[kron]

Those that were not alive or in their nappies at the time, let me just give you a bit of context. The average of 29 was not unique to Miandad against the Windies. A lot of Pakistani players failed in the Windies. When the 1988 tour came about, the world was asking Miandad to prove himself in that series. Promptly, and never to duck a challenge, Javed scored a crucial ton in a series that would go down as a series for the ages.

For those that may have performed against the Windies - well what did it do for them? Did they win any series? What was the context of their runs?

Javed was no choker either. 1 World Cup final, one match saving innings after being 2 down early, matched by an even better innings in the semi final.

There are players who have got to wc finals and failed immediately having to rely on other factors to gift them a World Cup victory somehow.

Miandad was a legend and no amount of stroppy kids will change that

Would you say he is better than pujara and kohli?

 

[Ab Fan]

Miandad played a second fiddle knock to a bowling all rounder in the WC Final batting first, scored slowly and got out. It was a pretty average knock by any standard. He was lucky to be saved by Wasim and Imran.

Imran's knock after coming to bat at 3 was a high class knock but Miandad played a very slow and gutless knock in that game. Being an experienced campaigner, he deserves no credit for WC Final knock. Maybe if he was 19 year old, he could have been allowed to play that type of knock. But no excuse for such an experienced campaigner.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Miandad played a second fiddle knock to a bowling all rounder in the WC Final batting first, scored slowly and got out. It was a pretty average knock by any standard. He was lucky to be saved by Wasim and Imran.

Imran's knock after coming to bat at 3 was a high class knock but Miandad played a very slow and gutless knock in that game. Being an experienced campaigner, he deserves no credit for WC Final knock. Maybe if he was 19 year old, he could have been allowed to play that type of knock. But no excuse for such an experienced campaigner.

You mean he was the Kohli of the final.

 

[sweep_shot]

Miandad was just plain mediocre against the West Indies.
Now if we are talking about world cups, he definitely chocked against India in 92 and 96. A slow poke 58 out of 96 balls in the world cup final is being hailed as special ( I guess Virat Kohli's final innings was super special ), getting rescued by your ATG bowlers is just standing on the shoulders of the giants.
And seriously the selfishness of forcing himself into 96 world cup did a lot of disservice to Pakistan.

All the good and great players with long careers have magical peaks that's the reason they manage to get long careers. Its not unique to Miandad. Going to in history for the ages is a tall tall claim. Miandad's feasting on Indian bowling is epic and his last ball 6 will remain for ages, but along with those facts accept the hard reality of his mediocrity against the pace battery of West Indies too.

Taking this screenshot was not easy, Now this is Miandad's peak career. Average of 34 is still mediocre which dramatically falls in 90s. Shows how selfishly he stayed and shamelessly prolonged career
View attachment 145164

58 off 96 was alright during those days. You shouldn't compare today's scoring rate with scoring rate from early-90's.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

We know why Indians spend their time online trying this pick flaws in Miandad.

 

[chinaman00]

Miandad was a great player and obviously a much better Test batsman than Ganguly. His famous last ball 6 at Sharjah left an enduring mark on Indian psyche. Created a new mental block for them.

But in terms of impact, I would rate Ganguly much higher. Ganguly changed the mentality of the Indian team from hopeless meeks to world class self-assured & assertive team. He does not get the credit he deserves for creating the dominant and confident Indian team we see these days.

Miandad was also a successful coach but the fundamentals of the Pakistani team were always dodgy and the toxic culture of Pakistan cricket couldn’t let him raise the professionalism of his team.

 

[TheSultan]

India were small f

In true sense, Miandad is not an ATG like Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Kohli and Sangakkara.

why?

 

[mominsaigol]

I've seen Miandad play on highlights.

He's a solid batsmen who handles things under pressure and is basically the mr reliable of that era.

This key trait of his is what our current players need to learn, Aka how to stay calm under pressure and win games for your country.

 

[Local.Dada]

Not a bad comparison. Both great batsman. Ganguly was more elegant to watch. Javed was very effective but extremely boring to watch. Kind of like a Fawad Alam type gameplay may be not that unorthodox but very grinding type of game from what I remember. I only watched the last phase of his career though: early 90 to retirement.

 

[Ab Fan]

You mean he was the Kohli of the final.

No, he is not for enough to tie the shoelace of Kohli in white ball cricket. In Tests, they are comparable although I believe Kohli would have done better vs Windies of 80s than Miandad did because he is excellent batsman vs pace and bounce.

 

[Hitman]

An average of 29 against the West Indies. Enough said!

 

[Hitman]

Add to that, a grand total of 5 MOM awards in 124 Tests. Try making as many excuses you want. Those are facts straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Certainly Javed was a better test batter than Sourav, there should be no doubt about it. Javed played in an era of bowlers like marshall, walsh, ambrose, Donald, who are termed as on of the greatest bowlers of that era. Batting was not easy in those times.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No, he is not for enough to tie the shoelace of Kohli in white ball cricket. In Tests, they are comparable although I believe Kohli would have done better vs Windies of 80s than Miandad did because he is excellent batsman vs pace and bounce.

Well you clearly rate Kohli too high