'We are against the oppressors': PTM leader Manzoor Pashteen tells thousands at Peshawar rally

[Pakpak]

i still call him....though i will not support such childish acts....as far as i know it was the guy who was abusing PTM on social media and had told them that i will enter there with pakistani flag and u can do whatever u can so they got personal which i still oppose.

Yeah the guy who has been holding Pukhtoonistan flags everywhere threatening the integrity of our country is a great Pukhtoon.

Right.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

How can you this guy when is with supporters off independent pashtunistanx1000

 

[DRsohail]

Yeah the guy who has been holding Pukhtoonistan flags everywhere threatening the integrity of our country is a great Pukhtoon.

Right.

i have not seen him holding pakhtunistan flags.

 

[DRsohail]

I don't have time to answer people who's sole purpose on this website is to bash Pakistanis. I am one of the biggest army critics on PP, yet noone accuses me of being anti-Pakistan because I do criticism properly.

ok ur choice.

 

[Mian]

i have not seen him holding pakhtunistan flags.

really? check his pix from 2016 posted earlier in this thread and they were posted on pashtun nationalist website too

 

[Pakpak]

i have not seen him holding pakhtunistan flags.

Perhaps if you scrolled through this thread you will find two pictures of him holding Pukhtoonistan flags.
[MENTION=142451]Mian[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] which one of you posted that?

 

[Pakpak]

So from Pashtunistan to PTM? now i know it all here are pics from 2016.

[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

 

[DRsohail]

not just in Swat they did same with a guy with flag in Lahore a coincidence? and how come their overseas protest include Afghan flags and afghan supporters? Come on it's written on the wall can't you see it what they are trying to do when finally Peace was coming in Fata. These guys want Army to leave Fata after cleaning it up so those terrorists who left for Afghan can come back and start their games again? No Army in the world will leave a place within a year after clearing it up .

I am against all anti state slogan and i have made it clear many time before.I am not from ANP or any other nationalist political party and u know i am a hard core supporter of PTI but there is always things in someone mind in which he believes in and i believe in humanity and i am supporting his demands for the sake of it.
Government should fullfil his demands and kick him out it is the simplest way to answer any anti state actor.
He will lose every type of support.

 

[Pakpak]

View attachment 80997

[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

 

[Mian]

Perhaps if you scrolled through this thread you will find two pictures of him holding Pukhtoonistan flags.
[MENTION=142451]Mian[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] which one of you posted that?

I posted them and now they are gonna call it photoshop or deep state ki sazish ya phr pashteen ke clone

 

[Pakpak]

I am against all anti state slogan and i have made it clear many time before.I am not from ANP or any other nationalist political party and u know i am a hard core supporter of PTI but there is always things in someone mind in which he believes in and i believe in humanity and i am supporting his demands for the sake of it.
Government should fullfil his demands and kick him out it is the simplest way to answer any anti state actor.
He will lose every type of support.

Check my post above as well.

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

He is contradicting such things.

 

[Pakpak]

He is contradicting such things.

Who?

The fact a guy supports breaking our country should be given jootay instead of being called the greatest Pukhtoon ever. There are plenty of great Pukhtoon who deserve that tag, Pukhtoons who bleed for our country on our borders instead of this fraud.

 

[Mian]

Who?

The fact a guy supports breaking our country should be given jootay instead of being called the greatest Pukhtoon ever. There are plenty of great Pukhtoon who deserve that tag, Pukhtoons who bleed for our country on our borders instead of this fraud.

 

[Pakpak]

Very well said.
[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] I respect you a lot but I am sorry you can't see facts here and are bent on supporting someone who supports breaking our nation.

 

[Mian]

Someone should tell this stupid Pashteen ke pukhtoon rewayat main jirga 2 bhaayio ke dermyaan be hota he.

جرگہ دو دشمنوں کے بیچ ہوتا ہے، ریاست اور شہری کے بیچ میں آئین ہوتا ہے- ہمارے پیچھے جرگہ بھیج کر انھوں نے ثابت کردیا کہ یہ ہمیں دشمن سمجھتے ہیں” منظور پشتین

 

[DRsohail]

Peaceful Pashteen and his supporters? This patriotic man was attacked by pashteen's traitor supporters for holding Pakistani flag

Here is what he wrote

آج جب میں سوات میں منظور پشتین کے جلسے میں پاکستانی پرچم لے کر گیا تو افغانی مہاجروں نے مجھ پرحملہ کر دیا. میرا فون توڑ دیا لیکن میں نے پاکستانی پرچم کو سینے پر سجائے رکھا. فون آتے جاتے رہتے ہیں لیکن پرچم سلامت رہے گا.پاکستان کیلئے جان بھی قربان .. سب سے پہلے پاکستان.

 

[DRsohail]

 

[Gabbar Singh]

No counter insurgency on earth has taken place in recent times without pissing all over innocent people’s human rights. Esp’ in South Asia - whether it’s the Tamils, the North East of India, Kashmir, Indian Punjab, the Chittagong Hill conflict etc.

Do people really think that operations such as Zarb-e-Azb by the Pakistan army and security forces are any different?

 

[the Great Khan]

You're just a polite version of Mamoon. Do you ever, ever in your life write anything that is even remotely pro-Pakistani?

never..and dont ask him whetehr God swt exists either..youll have fun with that one too..

as for this comment that the guy on social media abused the PTM lol..all he said was he was going to go with a pakistan flag and nobody could stop him..but PTM exposed and then when they were driving through swat were quite abusive to anti PTM supporters who were saying Pakistan Zindabad..some on here will never support the army..they think nations survive via their nice words and flowers, while the police an the borders..lol

 

[the Great Khan]

No counter insurgency on earth has taken place in recent times without pissing all over innocent people’s human rights. Esp’ in South Asia - whether it’s the Tamils, the North East of India, Kashmir, Indian Punjab, the Chittagong Hill conflict etc.

Do people really think that operations such as Zarb-e-Azb by the Pakistan army and security forces are any different?

in this case Pakistan has done better than most..

 

[yasir]

You're just a polite version of Mamoon. Do you ever, ever in your life write anything that is even remotely pro-Pakistani?

If by Pro Pakistan you mean Pro Army and Islam, then no. I would have no issue with Army or Islam, if they are not part of politics, right now they are front and center of policy and vision of the country, which is my main beef with them, Pakistan cannot make progress with them at top. They are the reason Pakistan is what it is, if you like where is Pakistan, than keep drinking the cool aid of Army :

 

[Pakpak]

If by Pro Pakistan you mean Pro Army and Islam, then no. I would have no issue with Army or Islam, if they are not part of politics, right now they are front and center of policy and vision of the country, which is my main beef with them, Pakistan cannot make progress with them at top. They are the reason Pakistan is what it is, if you like where is Pakistan, than keep drinking the cool aid of Army :

I am one of the biggest critics of army on PP along with DW44 but unlike you and Mamoon I don't make it my mission to life to talk drivel about my country in every single post.

 

[Mian]

Wardi wala standing behind calmly, while Pashteen followers giving respect to Old by checking him without checkpost / barrier

 

[Pakistanian]

^It's okay for Afghan to do that like it was perfectly acceptable for the Afghan air force to destroy a school.

 

[Mian]

TTP slogan? Na-Pak Army Murdabad. Then they say we don't abuse army? Constitutional Rights?

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TTP slogan? Na-Pak Army Murdabad.<br>PTM slogan? Na-Pak Army Murdabad.<br>Then they say we don't abuse army? Constitutional Rights?<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TTPTM?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TTPTM</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PashtunLongMarch2Swat?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PashtunLongMarch2Swat</a> <a href="https://t.co/08IFRjg4BR">pic.twitter.com/08IFRjg4BR</a></p>— خانہ بدوش (@Nomadzai) <a href="https://twitter.com/Nomadzai/status/990697449042989058?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 29, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[yasir]

I am one of the biggest critics of army on PP along with DW44 but unlike you and Mamoon I don't make it my mission to life to talk drivel about my country in every single post.

Well Mamoon is probably one of the best poster on this forum. DW44 is also a very good poster, ironically most of intellectually enlightened posters(even from Indian side as well) are liberal minded people on a conservative heavy forum Pakistan does not know how to use the liberals. If you throw them out, its your loss, liberals and Atheists hardly die because of hunger, they have capacity to feed are care for themselves...Culturally Pakistan is not very tolerant to opposite views, they only want criticism on fluffy stuff, not something deep or core. Concept of freedom has not reach there yet...Whole Nazaria Pakistan is protected by 800K armed men, there is never an intellectual conservation about that in 70 years. Same way we protect Religion and interest of Army... This whole thing is a nexus, we are going in circles rather than moving forward...Pakistan is 95% single religion country, there was/is no need of nationalism/patriotism based on that religion, you need to focus on something else that will take you forwad...

Its important to go after the culture, culture is the true investment. Pakistan has always been on completely foolish path, as far as I can remember... Without going after Army and Religion, I am not sure what we can objectively talk about future of the country? - They are the status co, they are the establishment, if you are happy with them, you should not complain...

In US you have strong pocket of liberal as well as conservative culture. This gives America great elasticity and diversity. There is lot of fight going on right now as well in the past, but free market principle helps both, at times one has to step back, when better idea wins. Some time in one dimension, one culture wins and in other dimension other wins, even there core principles change over time... Something we could learn from west, opposite views are essential for healthy society. Crushing minorities and opposite views ends up hurting you more, like what has happened to Pakistan...Pakistan has only going in one direction, from any meaningful data point, thanks to the culture we have been nurturing for 40 years!!

 

[Mian]

ironically most of intellectually enlightened posters(even from Indian side as well) are liberal minded people on a conservative heavy forum

Just because you believe that doesn't mean you are right it's nothing more than your opinion

 

[Loralai]

Well Mamoon is probably one of the best poster on this forum. DW44 is also a very good poster, ironically most of intellectually enlightened posters(even from Indian side as well) are liberal minded people on a conservative heavy forum Pakistan does not know how to use the liberals. If you throw them out, its your loss, liberals and Atheists hardly die because of hunger, they have capacity to feed are care for themselves...Culturally Pakistan is not very tolerant to opposite views, they only want criticism on fluffy stuff, not something deep or core. Concept of freedom has not reach there yet...Whole Nazaria Pakistan is protected by 800K armed men, there is never an intellectual conservation about that in 70 years. Same way we protect Religion and interest of Army... This whole thing is a nexus, we are going in circles rather than moving forward...Pakistan is 95% single religion country, there was/is no need of nationalism/patriotism based on that religion, you need to focus on something else that will take you forwad...

Its important to go after the culture, culture is the true investment. Pakistan has always been on completely foolish path, as far as I can remember... Without going after Army and Religion, I am not sure what we can objectively talk about future of the country? - They are the status co, they are the establishment, if you are happy with them, you should not complain...

In US you have strong pocket of liberal as well as conservative culture. This gives America great elasticity and diversity. There is lot of fight going on right now as well in the past, but free market principle helps both, at times one has to step back, when better idea wins. Some time in one dimension, one culture wins and in other dimension other wins, even there core principles change over time... Something we could learn from west, opposite views are essential for healthy society. Crushing minorities and opposite views ends up hurting you more, like what has happened to Pakistan...Pakistan has only going in one direction, from any meaningful data point, thanks to the culture we have been nurturing for 40 years!!

[MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] bhai you are very correct in your assessment. I share your perspective and think that deep down, even those posters who are debating with you know that you are actually very right here.

I hope we can see the emergence of a positive and progressive Pakistan but we have a long way to go here.

 

[Asim_khan]

Well Mamoon is probably one of the best poster on this forum. DW44 is also a very good poster, ironically most of intellectually enlightened posters(even from Indian side as well) are liberal minded people on a conservative heavy forum Pakistan does not know how to use the liberals. If you throw them out, its your loss, liberals and Atheists hardly die because of hunger, they have capacity to feed are care for themselves...Culturally Pakistan is not very tolerant to opposite views, they only want criticism on fluffy stuff, not something deep or core. Concept of freedom has not reach there yet...Whole Nazaria Pakistan is protected by 800K armed men, there is never an intellectual conservation about that in 70 years. Same way we protect Religion and interest of Army... This whole thing is a nexus, we are going in circles rather than moving forward...Pakistan is 95% single religion country, there was/is no need of nationalism/patriotism based on that religion, you need to focus on something else that will take you forwad...

Its important to go after the culture, culture is the true investment. Pakistan has always been on completely foolish path, as far as I can remember... Without going after Army and Religion, I am not sure what we can objectively talk about future of the country? - They are the status co, they are the establishment, if you are happy with them, you should not complain...

In US you have strong pocket of liberal as well as conservative culture. This gives America great elasticity and diversity. There is lot of fight going on right now as well in the past, but free market principle helps both, at times one has to step back, when better idea wins. Some time in one dimension, one culture wins and in other dimension other wins, even there core principles change over time... Something we could learn from west, opposite views are essential for healthy society. Crushing minorities and opposite views ends up hurting you more, like what has happened to Pakistan...Pakistan has only going in one direction, from any meaningful data point, thanks to the culture we have been nurturing for 40 years!!

You've written alot here without really saying anything aside from your subserviance to America/West as some sort of idealistic society we need to reach, whilst knowing full wel that they're murdering minorites in America on sight (#BLM). Where men can't even sit in a coffee shop without being arrested at gun point simply because of the colour of their skin, yet this is the society you hold up as some sort of utoipia. You're painting Pakistan as this rabid fascist society whilst knowing full well the likes of Hamid Mir/Asma Jahanghir/Raza Rumi etc have huge followings in the media, in the op ed pages, on the streets of major cities and college campuses up and down the country, where some of thier views make you seem like Maulana Diesel, thye couldn't exist if the country was as you described. A left wing government like PPP could never have been elected to rule the country thrice in recent post zia years had this been the case, yet here you are with your pseudo intellectualism telling the world how smart you are, when we all know you're an apologist not only for the most corrupt despicable policians, but corruption itself.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Well Mamoon is probably one of the best poster on this forum. DW44 is also a very good poster, ironically most of intellectually enlightened posters(even from Indian side as well) are liberal minded people on a conservative heavy forum Pakistan does not know how to use the liberals. If you throw them out, its your loss, liberals and Atheists hardly die because of hunger, they have capacity to feed are care for themselves...Culturally Pakistan is not very tolerant to opposite views, they only want criticism on fluffy stuff, not something deep or core. Concept of freedom has not reach there yet...Whole Nazaria Pakistan is protected by 800K armed men, there is never an intellectual conservation about that in 70 years. Same way we protect Religion and interest of Army... This whole thing is a nexus, we are going in circles rather than moving forward...Pakistan is 95% single religion country, there was/is no need of nationalism/patriotism based on that religion, you need to focus on something else that will take you forwad...

Its important to go after the culture, culture is the true investment. Pakistan has always been on completely foolish path, as far as I can remember... Without going after Army and Religion, I am not sure what we can objectively talk about future of the country? - They are the status co, they are the establishment, if you are happy with them, you should not complain...

In US you have strong pocket of liberal as well as conservative culture. This gives America great elasticity and diversity. There is lot of fight going on right now as well in the past, but free market principle helps both, at times one has to step back, when better idea wins. Some time in one dimension, one culture wins and in other dimension other wins, even there core principles change over time... Something we could learn from west, opposite views are essential for healthy society. Crushing minorities and opposite views ends up hurting you more, like what has happened to Pakistan...Pakistan has only going in one direction, from any meaningful data point, thanks to the culture we have been nurturing for 40 years!!

Most of the liberals posting have no intention of improving the country, most of them hate the culture of the country, and the religion which lends to that culture. Some of them openly admit they hate the people who make up that culture. I can totally understand in many ways, I would maybe be the same if I lived there, but when the majority think differently, you have to work on change in a positive and constructive manner assuming you really want to contribute.

For example, you might not be able to open a gay bar, but you could probably organise clean water supplies. Think about the Edhi foundation, do you think he liked the politics of Karachi? Not at all, but he set up an ambulance service which grew into an international foundation which helped ordinary people in Pakistan. Even controversial changes to the law can be addressed if done sensibly. No one says it will be plain sailing, but you can start somewhere, same as the great nations of today did a century or two ago.

 

[saeedhk]

When the Hazaras start a movement demanding justice, they too will be labelled anti-Pakistan and anti-army. In the last decade, 6000 Shias and Hazaras have been murdered.Yet, not a single suspect has been arrested by our number one army and intelligence agencies.

LeJ continues to thrive in Balouchistan right under the noses of our security forces. In fact, a former security personnel from Balouchistan has confirmed a nexus between the LeJ and security forces in the province.

In Pakistan, the pattern is very clear and linear.

First, oppress a certain race or ethnicity.Kill their community members. Second, when they speak out and protest, impose a complete media blackout. Third, when the movement gains momentum and traction, label them anti-Pakistan, anti-army and anti-Islam through paid media groups to tarnish the movement’ s reputation. A simple process.

 

[Pakistanian]

When the Hazaras start a movement demanding justice, they too will be labelled anti-Pakistan and anti-army. In the last decade, 6000 Shias and Hazaras have been murdered.Yet, not a single suspect has been arrested by our number one army and intelligence agencies.

LeJ continues to thrive in Balouchistan right under the noses of our security forces. In fact, a former security personnel from Balouchistan has confirmed a nexus between the LeJ and security forces in the province.

In Pakistan, the pattern is very clear and linear.

First, oppress a certain race or ethnicity.Kill their community members. Second, when they speak out and protest, impose a complete media blackout. Third, when the movement gains momentum and traction, label them anti-Pakistan, anti-army and anti-Islam through paid media groups to tarnish the movement’ s reputation. A simple process.

You're oversimplifying things and being dishonest. They're being labelled anti Pakistan because of their statements and antics like taking the flag off, claiming that the school attack was some conspiracy by the state, they don't condemn the actions of the afghan forces because it's perfectly acceptable for your own ethnicity to kill your people . Also I suggest you hear alternate viewpoints of people from that area and who have lived there and not just this pashteen guy who claims to be their representative but you're evidently to emotionally invested in this to hear a different point of view, if it doesn't fit your narrative then apparently it's a conspiracy

 

[Pakistanian]

Well Mamoon is probably one of the best poster on this forum. DW44 is also a very good poster, ironically most of intellectually enlightened posters(even from Indian side as well) are liberal minded people on a conservative heavy forum Pakistan does not know how to use the liberals. If you throw them out, its your loss, liberals and Atheists hardly die because of hunger, they have capacity to feed are care for themselves...Culturally Pakistan is not very tolerant to opposite views, they only want criticism on fluffy stuff, not something deep or core. Concept of freedom has not reach there yet...Whole Nazaria Pakistan is protected by 800K armed men, there is never an intellectual conservation about that in 70 years. Same way we protect Religion and interest of Army... This whole thing is a nexus, we are going in circles rather than moving forward...Pakistan is 95% single religion country, there was/is no need of nationalism/patriotism based on that religion, you need to focus on something else that will take you forwad...

Its important to go after the culture, culture is the true investment. Pakistan has always been on completely foolish path, as far as I can remember... Without going after Army and Religion, I am not sure what we can objectively talk about future of the country? - They are the status co, they are the establishment, if you are happy with them, you should not complain...

In US you have strong pocket of liberal as well as conservative culture. This gives America great elasticity and diversity. There is lot of fight going on right now as well in the past, but free market principle helps both, at times one has to step back, when better idea wins. Some time in one dimension, one culture wins and in other dimension other wins, even there core principles change over time... Something we could learn from west, opposite views are essential for healthy society. Crushing minorities and opposite views ends up hurting you more, like what has happened to Pakistan...Pakistan has only going in one direction, from any meaningful data point, thanks to the culture we have been nurturing for 40 years!!

Don't you have relatives in the Pakistan army and govt, lol @ the hypocrisy.

 

[HussainRx8]

Well Mamoon is probably one of the best poster on this forum. DW44 is also a very good poster, ironically most of intellectually enlightened posters(even from Indian side as well) are liberal minded people on a conservative heavy forum Pakistan does not know how to use the liberals. If you throw them out, its your loss, liberals and Atheists hardly die because of hunger, they have capacity to feed are care for themselves...Culturally Pakistan is not very tolerant to opposite views, they only want criticism on fluffy stuff, not something deep or core. Concept of freedom has not reach there yet...Whole Nazaria Pakistan is protected by 800K armed men, there is never an intellectual conservation about that in 70 years. Same way we protect Religion and interest of Army... This whole thing is a nexus, we are going in circles rather than moving forward...Pakistan is 95% single religion country, there was/is no need of nationalism/patriotism based on that religion, you need to focus on something else that will take you forwad...

Its important to go after the culture, culture is the true investment. Pakistan has always been on completely foolish path, as far as I can remember... Without going after Army and Religion, I am not sure what we can objectively talk about future of the country? - They are the status co, they are the establishment, if you are happy with them, you should not complain...

In US you have strong pocket of liberal as well as conservative culture. This gives America great elasticity and diversity. There is lot of fight going on right now as well in the past, but free market principle helps both, at times one has to step back, when better idea wins. Some time in one dimension, one culture wins and in other dimension other wins, even there core principles change over time... Something we could learn from west, opposite views are essential for healthy society. Crushing minorities and opposite views ends up hurting you more, like what has happened to Pakistan...Pakistan has only going in one direction, from any meaningful data point, thanks to the culture we have been nurturing for 40 years!!

You mean up? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RGDPNAPKA666NRUG

Albeit, not as fast as one would like. But let's temper our tantrums and avoid polemics.

 

[Waseem]

When the Hazaras start a movement demanding justice, they too will be labelled anti-Pakistan and anti-army. In the last decade, 6000 Shias and Hazaras have been murdered.Yet, not a single suspect has been arrested by our number one army and intelligence agencies.

LeJ continues to thrive in Balouchistan right under the noses of our security forces. In fact, a former security personnel from Balouchistan has confirmed a nexus between the LeJ and security forces in the province.

In Pakistan, the pattern is very clear and linear.

First, oppress a certain race or ethnicity.Kill their community members. Second, when they speak out and protest, impose a complete media blackout. Third, when the movement gains momentum and traction, label them anti-Pakistan, anti-army and anti-Islam through paid media groups to tarnish the movement’ s reputation. A simple process.

I don't agree bro, Army chief has already visited and spoken to Hazara protesters and i believe they are ending their dharna already, this is why i don't like these blanket statements. Army chief also met protesters demanding action against Rao Anwaar and soon the movement was hijacked by people and all we heard was anti Army slogans, Pakistani flags banned at PTM jalsas and also came across this most bizarre video (don't even know if correct or propaganda) that people were abusing Pakistan Army but praising Israel Army and even justified why.

It's not ideal situation in that part of the world and not clear why Hazara face such persecution in particular when rest of the county is relatively peaceful?

Anyway, saw some more checkposts being handed over by Army (process started last year) so hopefully we can resolve the issues for the FATA people, the merger with KPK will be the biggest step which everyone agrees except PTM, Achakzai, Fazal ue Rehman.

 

[saeedhk]

I don't agree bro, Army chief has already visited and spoken to Hazara protesters and i believe they are ending their dharna already, this is why i don't like these blanket statements. Army chief also met protesters demanding action against Rao Anwaar and soon the movement was hijacked by people and all we heard was anti Army slogans, Pakistani flags banned at PTM jalsas and also came across this most bizarre video (don't even know if correct or propaganda) that people were abusing Pakistan Army but praising Israel Army and even justified why.

It's not ideal situation in that part of the world and not clear why Hazara face such persecution in particular when rest of the county is relatively peaceful?

Anyway, saw some more checkposts being handed over by Army (process started last year) so hopefully we can resolve the issues for the FATA people, the merger with KPK will be the biggest step which everyone agrees except PTM, Achakzai, Fazal ue Rehman.

Army chief and other military leadership visiting to console bereaving Hazaras has become a routine and futile exercise. The same happens after every massacre but no results on the ground are seen. There is a video doing the rounds on FB in which LeJ militants can be seen standing in the town square and spewing hate against Shias. The intention to rein in their strategic assets is not there. I sincerely hope I am wrong but judging by the history of the military establishment, I doubt it.

 

[saeedhk]

You're oversimplifying things and being dishonest. They're being labelled anti Pakistan because of their statements and antics like taking the flag off, claiming that the school attack was some conspiracy by the state, they don't condemn the actions of the afghan forces because it's perfectly acceptable for your own ethnicity to kill your people . Also I suggest you hear alternate viewpoints of people from that area and who have lived there and not just this pashteen guy who claims to be their representative but you're evidently to emotionally invested in this to hear a different point of view, if it doesn't fit your narrative then apparently it's a conspiracy

Read again.Post is about the Hazaras.

 

[Loralai]

When the Hazaras start a movement demanding justice, they too will be labelled anti-Pakistan and anti-army. In the last decade, 6000 Shias and Hazaras have been murdered.Yet, not a single suspect has been arrested by our number one army and intelligence agencies.

LeJ continues to thrive in Balouchistan right under the noses of our security forces. In fact, a former security personnel from Balouchistan has confirmed a nexus between the LeJ and security forces in the province.

In Pakistan, the pattern is very clear and linear.

First, oppress a certain race or ethnicity.Kill their community members. Second, when they speak out and protest, impose a complete media blackout. Third, when the movement gains momentum and traction, label them anti-Pakistan, anti-army and anti-Islam through paid media groups to tarnish the movement’ s reputation. A simple process.

You are right but our usual patriots will not agree with you.

Systematic plan of persecution has existed for a long time. There is no intention of curbing the intentions of the Establishment.

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] mazloom k aah wa afryaad...son kar rongatay karaay hojaata ha,,,,yar we cant even sleep to hear tings happend.

 

[DW44]

While conservative hypocrites were complaining about paid journous, this is what their chor uchakka qabza group fouj was busy doing:

LAST month, several regular English-language columnists were informed by editors that their columns would not be published.

For the first time in the 10 years he has written for The News, Mosharraf Zaidi’s article was not published by the newspaper. (Note: so much for The News etc freely attacking the army like lying conservatives would have us believe)

Posting his article on Twitter, he wrote, “Strong nations cultivate robust debate. Weak ones fear it. Pakistan is stronger than it is allowed to be.”

Also read: It’s Orwell over the weekend

When lawyer Babar Sattar’s article was pulled out of the same newspaper, he tweeted it using the hashtag #TheAgeOfFreelyControlledMedia. Stories published in the newspaper have been deleted from its web edition.

While the press is no stranger to censorship in a country that has experienced decades under military dictatorship, today, divisions among the media have weakened its ability to resist undemocratic pressure.

This year, on World Press Freedom Day, the global call to protect independent journalism from attacks and ensure the prosecution of crimes against journalists coincides with a decline of media freedoms in Pakistan — that too, significantly, on the eve of a general election.

In a new report, media rights watchdog, Freedom Network (FN) has recorded more than 157 attacks on journalists between May 2017 and April 2018, 55 of them occurring in Islamabad alone.

While threats from militants have significantly reduced, the federal capital has emerged as the most dangerous place for journalists. In its stead, state agencies are posing serious threats.

Speech limits: Where did censorship originate from?

Critical opinions in nascent democracies like ours are persecuted because of weak institutions, limited legal frameworks and lack of political will, which are all antithetical to a free media.

Nonetheless, the consequences for the media remain the same: self-censorship. “[There] is pressure from the right, left and centre. I cannot write according to my own will. How can I be responsible if I am told what to write?” a former secretary general of the Pakistan Federal Union of Journalists explained.

Defining red lines
In the current climate, columnists have said they were asked not to write on ‘sensitive’ subjects. Coverage of the rights-based Pashtun Tahafuz Movement is one such issue.

Talat Aslam, editor at The News International, explains why: “We were told to lie low on reporting about it since it blows apart a huge part of the [security establishment’s] narrative. For years, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas were under a complete media blackout, we only received Inter-Services Public Relations statements about the numbers of militants killed. For the first time, we are hearing from its leaders about issues we have never spoken about. It was when the rhetoric was perceived as being anti-army, and when intervention of Kabul was suspected, that the blackout was ordered.”

In the run-up to the general election, can the media resist increasingly complex curbs on press freedom?

For tribal journalists, they know only too well to stay on the right side of the military, said Rasool Dawar, a reporter from North Waziristan. For him, pushback against the press embargo by young Pakhtun activists on social media has not trickled down to him being able to write on similar issues, such as enforced disappearances.

The Jang Group’s Geo TV was pushed off the airwaves across most of the country — a ban neither sanctioned by the government’s media regulatory body, Pemra, nor its Ministry of Information.

Cable operators claim they were instructed on what channels to bury down the lineup order or even remove.

Many journalists and editors said they either receive ‘directives’ on what news to spike, or are self-censoring content, fearing a similar reprisal.

Senior journalist Naseem Zehra viewed this as a reflection of the military establishment’s insecurity.

“Any kind of censorship has to be condemned. There are no ifs and buts. The media must wrestle space that it has legitimately earned.”

Censoring any criticism of the military and suppressing any perceived bias towards the PML-N — including media coverage of former prime minister Nawaz Sharif’s anti-judiciary speeches after his disqualification — are prerequisites for staying in business.

“I can’t remember it being so bad. There was pressure during the Zia-Junejo period, but now it’s more brazen and authoritarian. Based on what happened in the Senate election and Khawaja Asif’s disqualification, what kind of election are we going into?” Mr Aslam asked.

Senior journalist Hamid Mir believes, “Geo should take an editorial position, but not become Sharif’s lawyer.”

He explained the latest phase of censorship is not unheard of for journalists, who have always faced uncertainty and fear.

“It was worse in 2015, when journalists were killed. But, today, we have to pre-record our once live programmes, and articles are made to disappear.”

A divided media
There has been little reaction to such oppressive directives from opposition parties and certain media outlets.

According to PTI leader Asad Umar, the party has a “reasonable relationship with the electronic media. It is not particularly acrimonious. No political party can pressure the media but governments can and they do.”

Asked why his party had not spoken against media blackouts, he said: “The biggest threat to media freedoms is the use of money [to influence the press] by the sitting government.” (Koi sharam, koi haya asad umar? Blatant lies, the biggest threat is the military censoring anything it deems fit)

Recall when former president General Pervez Musharraf cracked down on private TV channels in 2007, political parties and editors alike rallied against the move.

This time round, none of the opposition parties have protested against this high-handedness. Moreover, increased infighting between certain media groups has atomised the industry.

The mainstream narrative in Pakistan about its press is that it is out of control, so when a media house is being asphyxiated and censorship ‘directives’ are followed by many media groups, it is not perceived as a damage to freedom of expression — even by sections of the media itself.

But, given what is at stake, such repression portends disaster.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1405304/the-new-old-censorship-when-power-trumps-truth

So much disinformation spread by the nationalist/conservative side of the political spectrum. Granted lying and deception are standard operating procedure for the cherry blossom brigade, who seem to dominate the time pass forum's political threads, this is still too much.

 

[Mian]

"Those Gul Khans who speak against Manzoor will be slaughtered & their body parts burned. GulKhans shldnt speak in pashto but in Urdu only & punjabis is our biggest enemy"

PTM thugs are sending these kind of videos to Pakistani Nationalist Pashtuns (who they call Gul Khan)

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Those Gul Khans who speak against Manzoor will be slaughtered & their body parts burned. GulKhans shldnt speak in pashto but in Urdu only & punjabis is our biggest enemy"<br><br>PTM thugs are sending these kind of videos to Pakistani Nationalist Pashtuns (who they call Gul Khan) <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FATA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FATA</a> <a href="https://t.co/NNLbNm0Ufn">pic.twitter.com/NNLbNm0Ufn</a></p>— Asfandyar Bhittani&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816; (@BhittaniKhannnn) <a href="https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/status/991933650005626880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 3, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

"Those Gul Khans who speak against Manzoor will be slaughtered & their body parts burned. GulKhans shldnt speak in pashto but in Urdu only & punjabis is our biggest enemy"

PTM thugs are sending these kind of videos to Pakistani Nationalist Pashtuns (who they call Gul Khan)

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Those Gul Khans who speak against Manzoor will be slaughtered & their body parts burned. GulKhans shldnt speak in pashto but in Urdu only & punjabis is our biggest enemy"<br><br>PTM thugs are sending these kind of videos to Pakistani Nationalist Pashtuns (who they call Gul Khan) <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FATA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FATA</a> <a href="https://t.co/NNLbNm0Ufn">pic.twitter.com/NNLbNm0Ufn</a></p>— Asfandyar Bhittani���� (@BhittaniKhannnn) <a href="https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/status/991933650005626880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 3, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pashtuns used to have a rivalry with Punjab in the pre-partition days dating back from the Sikh wars with Afghanistan. Always got the impression that many pro-Afghanistan parties still think of Pakistan as part of India so this is why you get this type of war-mongering talk. One of the reasons I'm not a fan of partition as I believe the true war has always been between Afghanistan and India.

 

[the Great Khan]

Pashtuns used to have a rivalry with Punjab in the pre-partition days dating back from the Sikh wars with Afghanistan. Always got the impression that many pro-Afghanistan parties still think of Pakistan as part of India so this is why you get this type of war-mongering talk. One of the reasons I'm not a fan of partition as I believe the true war has always been between Afghanistan and India.

and heres the great PTM..terrorist **** and just another name for the TTP..in ka bhi voy illaj ho gaa..

 

[Loralai]

[MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] mazloom k aah wa afryaad...son kar rongatay karaay hojaata ha,,,,yar we cant even sleep to hear tings happend.

inshallah pakistani qoum ke masayel hal honge, par is ke liye Manzoor sahab ki aawaz ko sun le to behtar hoga pooray mulk ke liye.

inquilab zindabad

 

[Waseem]

"Those Gul Khans who speak against Manzoor will be slaughtered & their body parts burned. GulKhans shldnt speak in pashto but in Urdu only & punjabis is our biggest enemy"

PTM thugs are sending these kind of videos to Pakistani Nationalist Pashtuns (who they call Gul Khan)

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Those Gul Khans who speak against Manzoor will be slaughtered & their body parts burned. GulKhans shldnt speak in pashto but in Urdu only & punjabis is our biggest enemy"<br><br>PTM thugs are sending these kind of videos to Pakistani Nationalist Pashtuns (who they call Gul Khan) <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FATA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FATA</a> <a href="https://t.co/NNLbNm0Ufn">pic.twitter.com/NNLbNm0Ufn</a></p>— Asfandyar Bhittani���� (@BhittaniKhannnn) <a href="https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/status/991933650005626880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 3, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So those who speak against Manzoor will be slaughtered.

And calling biggest ethnic group in country biggest enemy of Pashtuns surely builds the harmony among ehtnicities, doesn't it??Salute to those who support such garbage JUST because it also helps their own agenda against Army.

Surely this is the best way to resolve our problems, isn't it? And all those questioning such tactics are labelled with nasty names.

Shabash, spread more hatred, incite violence and raise tensions between major ethnic groups to take country towards peace.

 

[Mian]

So those who speak against Manzoor will be slaughtered.

And calling biggest ethnic group in country biggest enemy of Pashtuns surely builds the harmony among ehtnicities, doesn't it??Salute to those who support such garbage JUST because it also helps their own agenda against Army.

Surely this is the best way to resolve our problems, isn't it? And all those questioning such tactics are labelled with nasty names.

Shabash, spread more hatred, incite violence and raise tensions between major ethnic groups to take country towards peace.

bhai its all peaceful!

 

[MenInG]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1405541/army-ptm-talks-stall-after-promising-start

ISLAMABAD: The contacts between the army and the Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement (PTM) helped address some of the latter’s grievances, but the enthusiasm about the talks seems to be waning and there has been no development for weeks now.

The contacts between the two sides, according to a military official, began on PTM’s request when it was holding a sit-in near the National Press Club in the federal capital in connection with its ‘Justice for Naqeeb Mehsud’ campaign that called for arrest and trial of police officer Rao Anwar, who was accused of killing Naqeeb in a fake encounter and was then on the run. The protest over Naqeeb’s killing provided a fillip to the erstwhile Mehsud Tahaffuz Movement that later transformed into PTM.

A message was conveyed from those camped outside the press club that Manzoor Pashteen and his colleagues were their real representatives and that the sit-in would be ended following the meeting. After getting a positive response from the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), which was the contact point, PTM put together a 15-member delegation that included Pashteen and Muhsin Dawar. The group met ISPR Director General Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor on Feb 8.

The PTM delegation put forward a five-point charter of demands. They were calling for hanging of Rao Anwar; establishment of a judicial commission for looking into “extrajudicial killings” of Pakhtun; presenting the missing persons in courts and release of innocent people; lifting of curfew from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) or stopping of torture of locals, especially in Waziristan after violent incidents; and clearance of mines from Fata, particularly the Mehsud areas of Waziristan, according to a memorandum that was presented at the meeting by PTM that was shared with Dawn.

Military says it has suffered the most because of IEDs planted by Taliban

The meeting went well and further meetings of PTM leaders with General Officers Commanding (GOCs) of North and South Waziristan were fixed the same day through ISPR DG’s facilitation, the military official said. The meetings were later held on Feb 15 and 17. One major outcome of the Feb 15 meeting was the abolition of the Watan Card, which was initially introduced as an identification document for payment of compensation to Internally Displaced Persons and later used for identifying the returning IDPs.

Dawar, one of the PTM leaders who met GOC of North Waziristan, after the meeting told one of his friends: “Watan Cards issue was resolved the same evening. Many other issues were also discussed in detail, some have been sorted out and some might take some time; we are waiting for it.”

Consensus was reached on nearly a dozen issues during the meeting, which related to not imposing curfews, better treatment at check-posts, mechanism for dealing with missing persons, opening of the Ghulam Khan trade route with Afghanistan, ending restrictions on political gatherings, development projects in Shawal, restoration of communication links and opening of a bank branch, as per a brief showing the agreed points that was seen by this correspondent.

The number of posts was significantly reduced; like in Swat the number went down from 60 to seven.

The change in attitude of the personnel posted at checkpoints was hailed in the PTM’s internal messaging.

Fata Youth Jirga chairman Arshad Afridi, while talking to this reporter, said: “The army’s attitude towards local tribesman is positive and there is progress on the demands.”

He was also critical of PTM’s ‘Lar-o-Bar Yo Afghan’ slogan as a “utopian aspiration”. He believed it would hurt the Pakhtun cause.

Meanwhile, there has been progress in Naqeebullah Mehsud murder case, which was the key demand of the movement. The joint investigation team has held SP Anwar responsible and the trial has commenced.

One of Naqeeb’s cousins Noor Rehman, who had accompanied the PTM delegation to the meeting at ISPR, told Dawn that the slain man’s family was satisfied with the JIT report and had confidence in the process. “The JIT has vindicated our position,” he added.

Pashteen, meanwhile, met GOC of South Waziristan on Feb 17.

But later perceptions changed. A senior PTM member, who facilitated the contacts with the military but didn’t want to be identified, said higher-level interaction was needed. “A glass of drink offered at the checkpoint is not the answer to our grievances,” the member said.

Gradually the contacts started going cold and the PTM’s tone in public gatherings became harsher. Army Chief Gen Qamar Bajwa too last month went public with his views about the protests and said those were ‘engineered’ and the country was confronted with ‘hybrid war’ at the hands of its adversaries.

The two sides cite different reasons for the existing state of affairs. Interviews with people on both sides reveal that there were also missed signals and botched attempts to reach out by PTM.

The Army thinks PTM, instead of focusing on resolving the problems, was increasing its demands and there were elements of “uncertainty and unpredictability” in its approach. “PTM has drifted away from its original demands,” the military official regretted.

On the other hand, PTM is distrustful of the military. A senior PTM member said: “The situation is getting complicated.”

The member also expressed reservations about the jirga that met PTM to explore a way out of the impasse. The army is backing the jirga constituted by Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Governor Iqbal Zafar Jhagra for reaching out to PTM. The jirga recently held the first round of talks with Pashteen and listened to his grievances. Pashteen after the meeting with tribal elders had sought time for consultations with his aides. He has, however, not reverted to the jirga.

Arshad Afridi said he has not heard about any further development in this regard. It was unclear if PTM was tentative in responding to the jirga because of their reservations about the jirga members or it was related to the impasse in their contacts with the military.

“We know how our adults were brought around in the past,” a distrustful PTM leader told Dawn over phone.

The sticking points, it has emerged from conversations with the two sides, are the 2 Ms — the leftover mines and the missing persons.

The Army categorically denies planting any mines in the region. A senior military officer says the army suffered the most because of the improvised explosive devices (IEDs) planted by the Taliban. “More than half of our casualties including the martyrdom of Maj Gen Sanaullah were caused by the IEDs,” he said.

Returning IDPs say around 20 people have been killed and another 78 have been maimed for life due to explosions caused by landmines or the leftover IEDs.

The officer said the process for clearing the area was under way and would take time. He recalled that the army chief had himself assured in a public appearance that “clearance of unexploded ordnance was already in process”.

The issue of missing persons is trickier. An army officer said that while PTM leaders have been intensely agitating the issue, it has still not submitted a list of the persons it has been looking for. He said PTM had been asked to submit the list.

The officer further said that some 3,500 terrorists were killed in the North Waziristan operation and a large number was also eliminated in South Waziristan. “Their bodies were retrieved by Taliban and buried. We don’t have their details,” he says and adds that thousands had fled to Afghanistan also.

While it may be difficult to settle the matter because of the complicated situation, the army has offered a mechanism for reviewing the cases of individuals held at the internment centres and Bannu jail.

The gulf between the army and the PTM leadership is widening. And it’s unclear how it will be bridged.

The PTM leaders said they needed “guarantees” that promises made with them would be fulfilled. An army officer, on the other hand, said PTM was drifting from its original demands.

 

[MenInG]

The Army has begun handing over its checkposts in South Waziristan Agency — the native agency of Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement's (PTM) Manzoor Pashteen — to the Frontier Corps (FC), with cellphone service set to resume in the area, according to Inspector General (IG) FC Maj Gen Abid Lateef announced on Friday.

South Waziristan Agency was among the worst affected by terrorism and was cleared during army Operation Zarb-i-Azb, with the residents of the area having to move to other parts of the country.

Explore: The cold emptiness of South Waziristan

The announcement fulfils two major demands of the PTM, which has been demanding basic rights for the people of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) and highlighting the issues faced by Pashtuns in general.

Other demands include the termination of the Watan Card — an identity document for Fata residents in addition to the national identity card — and the removal of landmines.

Read more: Army-PTM talks stall after promising start

Around 11,000 FC officials have been posted at the check posts, Gen Lateef said today, adding that monitoring of the Pak-Afghan border would continue through the use of radars and latest camera equipment.

Recounting efforts by security forces and the government in the area after it was cleared of terrorists, Gen Lateef said 78 education and 11 health projects have been completed in the agency, in addition to 174 water provision projects. He also said that 81 parks and 59 markets have been built.

About the fencing and monitoring of the Pak-Afghan border, he said that Pakistan had 151 checkposts on the border, adding that 30 kilometres of fencing have been completed.

He also said that the number of checkposts in the agency has been reduced from 90 to only eight and the repatriation process of displaced persons is near completion. He claimed that Rs433.6 billion have been distributed among 18,464 families.

ricketweb.net/fantasycricket/viewusercompstandings.php?UserCompetitionIDAuto=28511

 

[Waseem]

Imran Khan's interview (03.05.18) with Hamid Mir is must watch on this issue.

He explained it extremely well, no one in a better position to say what he said.

No one in Pakistan has spoken against attacks in FATA as this man has so no one can question his sincerity. To sum it up:

Are these issues PTM raised genuine? No doubt "Ye sab hamaray bachay hain" IK said.

Should we listen to their demands? No doubt we have to listen to their demands and resolve issues.

Are they adopting the right approach? Not at all! Decision was made to send the Army and whatever is happening was ALWAYS known so why would anyone abuse the Army???

What's the solution? IK said: We are in rebuilding phase now and issues exist as there is no government in place, we have been pushing for FATA-KPK merger and all parties agreed but all of sudden government backed out under pressure from some people.

This is exactly what most of us have been saying as well? No one denied there are issues but what makes this whole thing dodgy is they started the campaign and within days they were abusing fauj, threatening to kill people, inciting violence etc

 

[the Great Khan]

The PTM are a trojan horse..a new MQM..they will continue to change their demands as soon as the Army has addressed their grievances or at least given them a plan to address their grievances..the fact is their bluff has been called.

the best way to deal with them is to absorb FATA into KP and make it a part of Pakistan.
[MENTION=135]Waseem[/MENTION] i saw the IK interview and it was a great interview. Shows how consistent he has been over the years. His message has not changed and his plan is the right one. Its not Rocket science!!

 

[Loralai]

People keep saying FATA needs to be mainstreamed into society and merged with KPK. I agree with this but there is more to it than that.

We need an end to racist and ethnic stereotyping within our country. Pashtuns are often viewed with suspicion and are often seen as terrorist sympathisers, extremists or pro Afghans. There is no doubt the treatment of Afghan refugees in recent times has been very poor in Pakistan - there is no excuse for this - and whenever a Pashtun points this out, he is labelled as anti Pakistan etc.

It is not uncommon to be sent 'Pathan' (an ethnic slur) jokes by text or Whatsapp making fun of how stupid or foolish Pashtuns are. Whenever this has happened in my presence, nobody has condemned these jokes as racist or offensive.

The fact is that we need a positive change in mindset. We need to move away from ethnic tropes and move forward into a Pakistan where ethnic and linguistic identities are respected and not abused.
[MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

 

[DRsohail]

People keep saying FATA needs to be mainstreamed into society and merged with KPK. I agree with this but there is more to it than that.

We need an end to racist and ethnic stereotyping within our country. Pashtuns are often viewed with suspicion and are often seen as terrorist sympathisers, extremists or pro Afghans. There is no doubt the treatment of Afghan refugees in recent times has been very poor in Pakistan - there is no excuse for this - and whenever a Pashtun points this out, he is labelled as anti Pakistan etc.

It is not uncommon to be sent 'Pathan' (an ethnic slur) jokes by text or Whatsapp making fun of how stupid or foolish Pashtuns are. Whenever this has happened in my presence, nobody has condemned these jokes as racist or offensive.

The fact is that we need a positive change in mindset. We need to move away from ethnic tropes and move forward into a Pakistan where ethnic and linguistic identities are respected and not abused.
[MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

agreed bro but who is gonna listen.Here u become agent when u talk about positivs.e thing

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

People keep saying FATA needs to be mainstreamed into society and merged with KPK. I agree with this but there is more to it than that.

We need an end to racist and ethnic stereotyping within our country. Pashtuns are often viewed with suspicion and are often seen as terrorist sympathisers, extremists or pro Afghans. There is no doubt the treatment of Afghan refugees in recent times has been very poor in Pakistan - there is no excuse for this - and whenever a Pashtun points this out, he is labelled as anti Pakistan etc.

It is not uncommon to be sent 'Pathan' (an ethnic slur) jokes by text or Whatsapp making fun of how stupid or foolish Pashtuns are. Whenever this has happened in my presence, nobody has condemned these jokes as racist or offensive.

The fact is that we need a positive change in mindset. We need to move away from ethnic tropes and move forward into a Pakistan where ethnic and linguistic identities are respected and not abused.
[MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but let's not forget that Pashtuns aren't the only victims of racism. Punjabis and Bengalis are also targeted and we can't pretend that it's all one sided. Pakistan needs to rid itself of this disease and for that matter the same goes for Afghanistan, although that isn't really our business.

 

[Pakistanian]

People keep saying FATA needs to be mainstreamed into society and merged with KPK. I agree with this but there is more to it than that.

We need an end to racist and ethnic stereotyping within our country. Pashtuns are often viewed with suspicion and are often seen as terrorist sympathisers, extremists or pro Afghans. There is no doubt the treatment of Afghan refugees in recent times has been very poor in Pakistan - there is no excuse for this - and whenever a Pashtun points this out, he is labelled as anti Pakistan etc.

It is not uncommon to be sent 'Pathan' (an ethnic slur) jokes by text or Whatsapp making fun of how stupid or foolish Pashtuns are. Whenever this has happened in my presence, nobody has condemned these jokes as racist or offensive.

The fact is that we need a positive change in mindset. We need to move away from ethnic tropes and move forward into a Pakistan where ethnic and linguistic identities are respected and not abused.
[MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

Um Pashtuns are quite racist themselves and Afghans have colonized all of the subcontinent before. To me, an Afghan complaining about racism is like a European complaining about racism, they are the biggest benefactors of colonizing south Asians, the invasions and genocides went on for centuries around the same time Europeans colonized the world. So I don't see any need for us to apologize or make amends, it's like expecting Black South Africans to not be racist against white south africans, it's deplorable but understandable at the same time.

 

[Pakistanian]

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but let's not forget that Pashtuns aren't the only victims of racism. Punjabis and Bengalis are also targeted and we can't pretend that it's all one sided. Pakistan needs to rid itself of this disease and for that matter the same goes for Afghanistan, although that isn't really our business.

Afghans have always demonized "Punjabis" which is their term for all desis who aren't Pashtun, Pakistani jokes about Afghans tend to be quite mild however Afghan jokes about Punjabis and Desis is on another level, it's more related to skin color.

 

[Pakistanian]

The stuff said about Afghans on Pakistani social media is no where near as worse as the stuff you hearb about desis on Afghan forums and Afghan Twitter, they're far more racist and more obsessed with Pakistanis than the other way around.

 

[Loralai]

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but let's not forget that Pashtuns aren't the only victims of racism. Punjabis and Bengalis are also targeted and we can't pretend that it's all one sided. Pakistan needs to rid itself of this disease and for that matter the same goes for Afghanistan, although that isn't really our business.

I am half Punjabi and I have never come across people from any ethnic group making fun of Punjabis the way they make fun of Pashtuns.

Yes, Bengalis were economically and socially repressed - and we know how that ended. The sad thing is our Establishment has not learned anything from its mistakes and continues to commit the same acts again and again.

 

[Loralai]

The stuff said about Afghans on here and other Pakistani social media is no where near as worse as the stuff you hearb about desis on Afghan forums and Afghan Twitter, they're far more racist and more obsessed with Pakistanis than the other way around.

We don't need to compare ourselves to anyone, be they Afghan or Indian. Why can't we rise above this stuff and look to built a more positive and empowering Pakistani identity which takes into account and celebrates our ethnic differences? I couldn't care less about how racist people are on Afghan forums - I'm a Pakistani and I will die a Pakistani. I want what is best for my nation and that means moving forward.

 

[Loralai]

Um Pashtuns are quite racist themselves and Afghans have colonized all of the subcontinent before. To me, an Afghan complaining about racism is like a European complaining about racism, they are the biggest benefactors of colonizing south Asians, the invasions and genocides went on for centuries around the same time Europeans colonized the world. So I don't see any need for us to apologize or make amends, it's like expecting Black South Africans to not be racist against white south africans, it's deplorable but understandable at the same time.

I actually have no personal experience of racism from Pashtuns so I cannot agree with your assertion that they are 'quite racist'. In fact I have always been warmly welcomed by friends familys whenever I have visit Peshawar or Mardan.

Also - you cannot say Afghans or Pashtuns are the biggest benefactors of colonialism, or compare them to former colonial powers of Europe. Afghanistan is an absolute basket case of a state, with an incredibly corrupt and fragile government, with a non existent economy. It has not in the long term benefitted from any of its historical military invasions with India. Better to look at it through a modern day lens - no Pakistani or Indian would ever want to move to Afghanistan.

 

[blackanhyellow]

I actually have no personal experience of racism from Pashtuns so I cannot agree with your assertion that they are 'quite racist'. In fact I have always been warmly welcomed by friends familys whenever I have visit Peshawar or Mardan.

Also - you cannot say Afghans or Pashtuns are the biggest benefactors of colonialism, or compare them to former colonial powers of Europe. Afghanistan is an absolute basket case of a state, with an incredibly corrupt and fragile government, with a non existent economy. It has not in the long term benefitted from any of its historical military invasions with India. Better to look at it through a modern day lens - no Pakistani or Indian would ever want to move to Afghanistan.

Actually South Asia in general is a very racist society.

In Pakistan, being dark skinned is considered less attractive. Many people only marry within their own ethnicity. That isnt bad by itself as it makes sense to marry in a similar culture, with similar traditions, language, food etc... But that is taken to the next level when people only marry within their clan, caste, etc..

Punjabis are racist against pashtuns and often stereotype Pashtuns as extremists, or overly conservative, or violent.

Pashtuns are racist against Punjabis too, often stereotyping them as too liberal (less muslim), words like daal khor and what not are sometimes thrown around. Pakistani pashtun nationalists and Afghan pashtuns harbour the worst form of racism for other pakistanis.

At the end of the day though, there are nice people in all societies. Largely most punjabis and pashtuns I have come across have been friendly and do not harbor hatred against others.

I agree with PTM that they have legitimate concerns that must be addressed. But bringing up Pashtun nationalism or saying slogans against Pakistan, its army, or making racist comments against other ethnicity, is just going to divide a country already so divided. There needs to be unity.

Inshallah lives of pashtuns will get better. FATA needs to be merged.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am half Punjabi and I have never come across people from any ethnic group making fun of Punjabis the way they make fun of Pashtuns.

Yes, Bengalis were economically and socially repressed - and we know how that ended. The sad thing is our Establishment has not learned anything from its mistakes and continues to commit the same acts again and again.

Having had interesting debates with a half Kashmiri/half Bangladeshi poster who appeared recently I'll take that with a pinch of salt if that's ok.

 

[Pakpak]

Having had interesting debates with a half Kashmiri/half Bangladeshi poster who appeared recently I'll take that with a pinch of salt if that's ok.

Same His posts are those of nationalist Pashtuns, no Punjabi would post as he does here.

 

[Loralai]

Having had interesting debates with a half Kashmiri/half Bangladeshi poster who appeared recently I'll take that with a pinch of salt if that's ok.

Same His posts are those of nationalist Pashtuns, no Punjabi would post as he does here.

Interesting how neither of you were willing to address the points raised in my message but seem happier to question my ethnicity. I can't say I am surprised as people often resort to such tactics when they are cornered and are unwilling to accept the truth.

You might be interested to learn that there is support for this movement amongst progressive, educated circles in many Punjabi cities. Recently, Punjab University even removed one of its most progressive academics, Ammar Ali Jan, from his post because of his open support for the PTM. Furthermore, their recent protest in Lahore drew a lot of attention from respected leftists like Taimur Rahman (LUMS and Mazdoor Kissan Party) and Tahira Habib Jalib.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Interesting how neither of you were willing to address the points raised in my message but seem happier to question my ethnicity. I can't say I am surprised as people often resort to such tactics when they are cornered and are unwilling to accept the truth.

You might be interested to learn that there is support for this movement amongst progressive, educated circles in many Punjabi cities. Recently, Punjab University even removed one of its most progressive academics, Ammar Ali Jan, from his post because of his open support for the PTM. Furthermore, their recent protest in Lahore drew a lot of attention from respected leftists like Taimur Rahman (LUMS and Mazdoor Kissan Party) and Tahira Habib Jalib.

The only point I addressed was your assertion that the racism is only one sided which is wrong in my view. About the movement I don't really have an opinion, it might be legitimate and the grievances as well. Not my place to say.

 

[Pakpak]

Interesting how neither of you were willing to address the points raised in my message but seem happier to question my ethnicity. I can't say I am surprised as people often resort to such tactics when they are cornered and are unwilling to accept the truth.

You might be interested to learn that there is support for this movement amongst progressive, educated circles in many Punjabi cities. Recently, Punjab University even removed one of its most progressive academics, Ammar Ali Jan, from his post because of his open support for the PTM. Furthermore, their recent protest in Lahore drew a lot of attention from respected leftists like Taimur Rahman (LUMS and Mazdoor Kissan Party) and Tahira Habib Jalib.

I have no interest in debating with anyone who supports this fraud Pashteen, an advocate for breaking my nation.

Otherwise on PP my views are well known for racism that exists in our society.

 

[Hermoine Green]

Interesting how neither of you were willing to address the points raised in my message but seem happier to question my ethnicity. I can't say I am surprised as people often resort to such tactics when they are cornered and are unwilling to accept the truth.

You might be interested to learn that there is support for this movement amongst progressive, educated circles in many Punjabi cities. Recently, Punjab University even removed one of its most progressive academics, Ammar Ali Jan, from his post because of his open support for the PTM. Furthermore, their recent protest in Lahore drew a lot of attention from respected leftists like Taimur Rahman (LUMS and Mazdoor Kissan Party) and Tahira Habib Jalib.

Challenge i accepted I will answer your each and every line once you gather some spine and answer my 2 old posts which you conveniently ignore.

m astounded and grieved that how some of our well educated pathan are supporting this dude.

I will summarize this in few points.

1. Where was he when Tehreek e Talibaan was destroying KPK and FATA region?

2. Where was he when thousand of our Soldiers sacrificed their life in order to eradicate terrorist? According to him those all are lies and even APS attack was done by Army.

3. He claimed that many of innocent people died due to IED planted by Pakistan Army, some one should tell him that it was TTP who used to plant IED and many of our soldiers lost their lives due to IED.

4. He wants check posts to be removed, why? Because his brother is a terrorist who is hiding some where, he want check posts to be removed so that his brother along with his terrorist may crawl back into Pakistan and to create some havoc once again.

5. He is standing with Achakzai, the guy who wants KPK to be merged with Afghanistan, a guy who was against the merging of FATA with KPK.

6. He is against CPEC.

7. He is against building the wall at Pak Afghanistan border

1. Why is the Western State funded Media like VOA, RFL and BBC especially their Pashtu services so actively engineering Pashteen as the "leader of Pashtuns" which isn't true because the "Red" Socialists are a tiny minority. Why is their official social media running from the United States?

2. PTM blasts on Pakistan Army every time in their rallies, i wonder why they never talk about Pashtoons murdered by America and their Afghani surrogate Army, for instance the massacre in Kunduz?

3. If PTM says that it is an Political Organization then why it is standing with PKMAP which denies FATA their constitutional rights?

4. Why are so many Afghan refugees turning up at PTM events and carrying out anti Pakistan propaganda in the West, is this a coincidence?

5. Who will explain the relation between PTM and NGOs which are funded by US, running by Gulalai Ismail, her sister and the one is run by Ammar Jan's mother ... All are involved in this movement.

6. Comission on Missing perons, reduction in check posts if you compare it to 2015-16, Naqeeb's case is already being handled.. Then what is the purpose of protest?

7. I am wondering why that all of Pakistan's ill wishers like Hussain Haqqani, Altaf Hussain, Tariq Fatah, India Media, Afghan President and Western Media backing PTM all at once?

8. They have failed to condemn TPP but they are blaming Pak army for every thing. Why ?



Now we’re seeing Manzoor Pashteen start his Pashtun Thafuz Movement agitation in collaboration with TTP who are hiding some where their lives have been made hell due to army operation and they are finding difficult to send their terrorists inside Pakistan because of border fencing and army checkposts all across FATA.

A true supporter of the Pashtun people’s rights can never support Manzoor hypocrite Pashteen because he and his PTM are the Pashtun people’ open enemies.

 

[Lonewarrior]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Terror attack foiled!<br><br>TTPTM terrorists affliated with Wafaq ul Madaris Al Arabia have been arrested with explosives at Boya Bypass in Mansehra. <a href="https://t.co/5Z5PmdbSZW">pic.twitter.com/5Z5PmdbSZW</a></p>— Asfandyar Bhittani&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816; (@BhittaniKhannnn) <a href="https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/status/993112906337341440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Terror attack foiled!<br><br>TTPTM terrorists affliated with Wafaq ul Madaris Al Arabia have been arrested with explosives at Boya Bypass in Mansehra. <a href="https://t.co/5Z5PmdbSZW">pic.twitter.com/5Z5PmdbSZW</a></p>— Asfandyar Bhittani&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816; (@BhittaniKhannnn) <a href="https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/status/993112906337341440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 6, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[yasir]

You've written alot here without really saying anything aside from your subserviance to America/West as some sort of idealistic society we need to reach, whilst knowing full wel that they're murdering minorites in America on sight (#BLM). Where men can't even sit in a coffee shop without being arrested at gun point simply because of the colour of their skin, yet this is the society you hold up as some sort of utoipia. You're painting Pakistan as this rabid fascist society whilst knowing full well the likes of Hamid Mir/Asma Jahanghir/Raza Rumi etc have huge followings in the media, in the op ed pages, on the streets of major cities and college campuses up and down the country, where some of thier views make you seem like Maulana Diesel, thye couldn't exist if the country was as you described. A left wing government like PPP could never have been elected to rule the country thrice in recent post zia years had this been the case, yet here you are with your pseudo intellectualism telling the world how smart you are, when we all know you're an apologist not only for the most corrupt despicable policians, but corruption itself.

I would like to see same attitude towards western products, which fulfill all of our needs(the real ones). We take from food, to clothing to tech, to even weapon(the army is begging US to give them Drone, we will kill who ever you want for you, just give us these drones ...

When it comes to building the foundation infra structure for our society, freedom of thoughts, expression, Science, education, democracy, which really helped west to be where they are, all of a sudden those things west are evils and we got superior 1400 year old(that was copy/paste of existing Trible and Jewish traditions of that time any way, nobody question why so much of that content is original), without shred of evidence that it had worked in modern times... This empty religiosity and love for Army has given exactly what?? - One Bomb, which is against all western tech...I don't get what moral high ground you are trying to stand on?

 

[yasir]

Most of the liberals posting have no intention of improving the country, most of them hate the culture of the country, and the religion which lends to that culture. Some of them openly admit they hate the people who make up that culture. I can totally understand in many ways, I would maybe be the same if I lived there, but when the majority think differently, you have to work on change in a positive and constructive manner assuming you really want to contribute.

For example, you might not be able to open a gay bar, but you could probably organise clean water supplies. Think about the Edhi foundation, do you think he liked the politics of Karachi? Not at all, but he set up an ambulance service which grew into an international foundation which helped ordinary people in Pakistan. Even controversial changes to the law can be addressed if done sensibly. No one says it will be plain sailing, but you can start somewhere, same as the great nations of today did a century or two ago.

Liberals are the one behind freeing up minorities of all kind, all over the world and in past. Weather it was slavery, women rights, civil rights, rights for labor, oppression from feudal etc liberals of that time were behind it. Its not just about gays, its about an oppressed community, conservatives rarely stand for somebody weaker, they are the first one to sit in the lap of powerful... Lot of charity work is done by liberals too, World's biggest charity organization, Gates foundation is run by liberal and Atheists (Gates and Buffets), its not about please the non existent God, that makes you morally superior :

Look at the history of Muslim league, started as party of Feudal, played in hands of devil of the time aka British Raj, After partition, Muslim League was never about ideology, it was always a lota party, ready to sleep with the devil aka Army. All the lota cracy in Pakistani politics is largely culture of muslim league, which was always rewarded by Pakistan Army, they are still doing the same, all those seasoned lotas are part of PTI now...This Lota culture is Army's way of doing business, to make sure they wear the pants in the house

 

[Waseem]

Good to see more and more Pashtuns saying what we have been saying here:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pashtuns?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pashtuns</a> are proud Pakistanis & an integral component of Pakistan! This so-called rights’ movement amazes me that has arrived to stir the emotions of pashtuns when peace is returning giving rise to ethnic divide.This is what I feel about Pashtuns &... <a href="https://t.co/3NdcWQaqpQ">https://t.co/3NdcWQaqpQ</a></p>— Shiffa Z. Yousafzai (@Shiffa_ZY) <a href="https://twitter.com/Shiffa_ZY/status/994221081371271168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 9, 2018</a></blockquote>
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No one is against rights or movement but the way they are conducting themselves is total opposite to what they stand for. Promoting ethnic hatred, abusing Army, threatening people who oppose them and overwhelming support from Afghans makes it look dodgy. I have seen similar tweets from dozens of other Pashtuns (many from Waziristan).

 

[Mian]

Altaf Hussain urging his workers to join PTM Jalsa on 13th May in Karachi. When Altaf Hussain and Hussain Haqqani are supporting this movement than we all know whats wrong with it. Altaf speaking for pashtuns? Tell me another joke please

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Altaf Hussain urging his workers to join <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PTM?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PTM</a> Jalsa on 13th May in Karachi <a href="https://t.co/DMgjQmgoTt">pic.twitter.com/DMgjQmgoTt</a></p>— MNA (@Engr_Naveed111) <a href="https://twitter.com/Engr_Naveed111/status/994866070732333057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 11, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Waseem]

^^ All such elements pounce on all such conspiracies and innocent people keep thinking these people are fighting for their rights.
Look at what Pashteen has been upto:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">کراچی میں پھر ایک پشتون ریڑی بان کو ریاستی ادارے نے بے دردی سے شھید کر دیا گیا ۔<br>ریاست سے اس کے لئے انصاف مانگنا ریاست اور بلخصوص فوج اور انٹیلیجنس اداروں کے سامنے غداری کے زمرے میں آتا ہے ۔<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/pashtunlongmarch2karachi?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#pashtunlongmarch2karachi</a></p>— Manzoor Pashteen (@manzoorpashteen) <a href="https://twitter.com/manzoorpashteen/status/994671463054491649?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Using an individual's death to give impression that security agencies are randomly picking up Pashtuns and killing them? Like SERIOUSLY?? Using such tactics to make his Karachi rally relevant, can't believe people cant see obvious propaganda here while exploiting genuine issues of people.

 

[Mian]

^^ All such elements pounce on all such conspiracies and innocent people keep thinking these people are fighting for their rights.
Look at what Pashteen has been upto:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">کراچی میں پھر ایک پشتون ریڑی بان کو ریاستی ادارے نے بے دردی سے شھید کر دیا گیا ۔<br>ریاست سے اس کے لئے انصاف مانگنا ریاست اور بلخصوص فوج اور انٹیلیجنس اداروں کے سامنے غداری کے زمرے میں آتا ہے ۔<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/pashtunlongmarch2karachi?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#pashtunlongmarch2karachi</a></p>— Manzoor Pashteen (@manzoorpashteen) <a href="https://twitter.com/manzoorpashteen/status/994671463054491649?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Using an individual's death to give impression that security agencies are randomly picking up Pashtuns and killing them? Like SERIOUSLY?? Using such tactics to make his Karachi rally relevant, can't believe people cant see obvious propaganda here while exploiting genuine issues of people.

And guess these same desi liberals blame others for conspiracy theories when they are the one coming up with many!

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Altaf Hussain urging his workers to join PTM Jalsa on 13th May in Karachi. When Altaf Hussain and Hussain Haqqani are supporting this movement than we all know whats wrong with it. Altaf speaking for pashtuns? Tell me another joke please

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Altaf Hussain urging his workers to join <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PTM?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PTM</a> Jalsa on 13th May in Karachi <a href="https://t.co/DMgjQmgoTt">pic.twitter.com/DMgjQmgoTt</a></p>— MNA (@Engr_Naveed111) <a href="https://twitter.com/Engr_Naveed111/status/994866070732333057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 11, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Father of mohajir nation Qet Altaf Hussain)))

 

[DeadBall]

Father of mohajir nation Qet Altaf Hussain)))

Doesn't seem to be in full control of his faculties.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Doesn't seem to be in full control of his faculties.

Whats your opinion off him or any other off my karachi brothers can tell?

 

[Mian]

Doesn't seem to be in full control of his faculties.

Pashtun-Muhajir etehad wow 999 chuhe kha ker billi haj ko chali

 

[DeadBall]

Whats your opinion off him or any other off my karachi brothers can tell?

Don't think my opinion maters. His "kartoots" are there for all to see. I suggest you do your own research and stop relying on opinions of others.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Don't think my opinion maters. His "kartoots" are there for all to see. I suggest you do your own research and stop relying on opinions of others.

Ok done.