"Wearing Hijab Is Indiscipline": Karnataka Minister On Students' Protest

[LongtimeLurk3r]

If the courts suddenly made a law that all men should be castrated... what then?
The law is the law when it's a fair law not when it's petty and born out of discrimination.

What kind of comparison is that? Perhaps we can discuss that issue if it comes up?

How can it be discriminatory when they are saying everyone should be equal in school?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In India courts decide. Not our neighborhood countries.

Hindu judges decide, let's call a spade a spade.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You seem to be confusing Indian High courts with Pak High courts... all court benches that make landmark judgements have a mix of ppl from diff backgrounds including religions. For eg. the current 3 judge Karnataka bench included J.M. Khazi - a Muslim.

So he would get outvoted 2-1 even assuming he wasn't hand picked to judge for hindutva. Which he will have been.

 

[JaDed]

What kind of comparison is that? Perhaps we can discuss that issue if it comes up?

How can it be discriminatory when they are saying everyone should be equal in school?

Equal as what, Schools can just say what Hijab color should be worn (matching the uniform).

Whats the issue with Uniform Hijab who wants to wear them?

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

So he would get outvoted 2-1 even assuming he wasn't hand picked to judge for hindutva. Which he will have been.

And you know this happened because?

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

Equal as what, Schools can just say what Hijab color should be worn (matching the uniform).

Whats the issue with Uniform Hijab who wants to wear them?

Equal as the other students in not displaying overt religious symbols that are not essential to their religion.

 

[JaDed]

Equal as the other students in not displaying overt religious symbols that are not essential to their religion.

And how are you saying what is essential to their religion?
Are you saying not eating beef is essential to Hindu religion?

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

And how are you saying what is essential to their religion?
Are you saying not eating beef is essential to Hindu religion?

I am not - the high court did. They have published their findings. Maybe you can take it up with the judges.

 

[JaDed]

I am not - the high court did. They have published their findings. Maybe you can take it up with the judges.

True.. and let them take it to SC, what about Hindus not allowing beef in many states do you that is essential to Hinduism?

 

[JaDed]

Irrespective, I think this will only enhance the activism of Muslim girl students, which is great to see because education and dissent are way to move forward.

So hopefully that will be the positive, strong willed girls that will bring the change they want to see!

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

True.. and let them take it to SC, what about Hindus not allowing beef in many states do you that is essential to Hinduism?

I don't have an opinion on that. Don't care either way. People can eat what they want.

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

Irrespective, I think this will only enhance the activism of Muslim girl students, which is great to see because education and dissent are way to move forward.

So hopefully that will be the positive, strong willed girls that will bring the change they want to see!

Maybe the will of these girls can be better spent to progress in society by putting education and career first? Education and financial independence should be more important no?

 

[JaDed]

Maybe the will of these girls can be better spent to progress in society by putting education and career first? Education and financial independence should be more important no?

Yes but here they are fighting for their own beliefs without imposition, this is education of their right, which will go a long way to not be a sheep.

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

Yes but here they are fighting for their own beliefs without imposition, this is education of their right, which will go a long way to not be a sheep.

They have the right to education. Noone is preventing them from going to school except themselves and their families.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Karnataka hijab row live updates: HC says hijab non-essential part of Islam, dismisses all petitions

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-congress-march-15-2022/liveblog/90209409.cms

So no Hijabs in school will be allowed. Everyone will follow the same Uniform code .

Now Hindu judges are telling Muslims what Islam is lol.

As expected from a nation which elected Hindu Extremists into power, who are still upset and ashamed of their history.

Muslims in India should start up their own Islamic schools, as others have done in various parts of the world.

 

[JaDed]

They have the right to education. Noone is preventing them from going to school except themselves and their families.

It’s about their beliefs, they can go to schools and not agree about the laws which are not allowing them to wear a cloth on their head which MOST of Indian women wear on daily basis in one form or other, as simple as that.

They can change schools, they are not asking everyone to wear Hijab they are asking for something so simple as to be able to wear a covering for their head.

 

[JaDed]

Now Hindu judges are telling Muslims what Islam is lol.

As expected from a nation which elected Hindu Extremists into power, who are still upset and ashamed of their history.

Muslims in India should start up their own Islamic schools, as others have done in various parts of the world.

Muslims have colleges and schools throughout the country.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Muslims have colleges and schools throughout the country.

They should use them then. Perhaps there isnt one near these students, if there is , they should stop protesting now and move.

Still another big blow to Hindu/Muslim relations in India.

Im not a fan of Indian government or their army but its sad to see a ticking time bomb of communal disharmony in India. Once a land where all religions could practice freely and would help each other like family members.

 

[LaLoco]

gotcha?

When did I claim otherwise so that you "gotcha" me?

it seems like now a days people here want to argue for sake of arguing/winning rather than gathering knowledge.

There is no argument - only attempt to either correct the definition or changing the definition.

Indians ( BJP supporters, including the closet Hindutva) have used almost every excuse under the sun to display their anti-Muslims stand.

There is nothing to win but everything to lose for Muslim girls of India who just wants to just practice their beliefs but their is everything to win for the BJP supporters ( some of them claim they elected BJP because their will be more $$ flowing in India) by subjugating by not allowing them to practice what they belief while making a mockery out of secularism.

After going through this thread and reading various excuses by Indians, the gathered info is, anti-Muslim narrative and bigotry will continue and unlikely to end as long as the vast majority, including the educated ones, continue to support the bigots of India.

Do not need to win any argument - everyone understand the 'true' meaning of secularism, The US, Canada, Britain, etc, but definitely NOT India

 

[cricketjoshila]

Same principle that beef(cow’s meat) is not available in most states?

What are the basis for those?

Beef is available, cow slaughtering isnt in most states.

Its based on the same principle where taxpayers paid for haj pilgrimage or muslim personal laws are exempted from courts or Rajiv Gandhi passed the Shah Bano law.

I wonder why those who cry about cow slaughtering ban, whine when uniform civil code is talked about?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Hindu judges decide, let's call a spade a spade.

Judges decide. Thats how it is. Of any religion.

 

[cricketjoshila]

And how are you saying what is essential to their religion?
Are you saying not eating beef is essential to Hindu religion?

It was argued by the lawyers and evidence presented.

Now are you in support of Namaz being allowed in schools? Or Friday to be a off day for muslims for their religious activities?

 

[RexRex]

Beef is available, cow slaughtering isnt in most states.

Beef laws elevate the primacy of hindu religion over other religions. India can't be labelled secular when they exist, time to repeal.

 

[MenInG]

New Delhi: Asaduddin Owaisi, the chief of AIMIM (All India Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen) today questioned the premises of the Karnataka High Court upholding the ban on hijab, saying the court's examples of a gurukul, prison or an army camp cannot be equated to schools. He also argued against the homogeneity that school uniforms are meant to bring, pointing out that many nations do not require uniforms in school.

"If you look at the Constitution, pluralism and diversity are the basic structures of the Constitution. Homogeneity is not," Mr Owaisi told NDTV in an exclusive interview after the High Court turned down petitions from a group of students to allow hijab in classrooms.

In its judgment, the court had said hijab is not an essential practice in Islam. "We are of the considered opinion that wearing of hijab by Muslim women does not form a part of essential religious practice in Islamic faith," the judges had said, refusing to strike down the government decision to ban head scarves.

The decision has been questioned by many, with critics making the point that the state cannot interfere with personal choice in dress. The Karnataka government has taken the view that there is no restriction on wearing hijab in India except reasonable restrictions subject to institutional discipline.

Taking on the argument that religion should not be allowed in public spaces, Mr Owaisi said, "What happens to police stations and NS stock exchange on Diwali night? You have puja... When the parliament building's foundation stone is laid, the Prime Minister has to do a puja. why should there be a puja?"

The BJP government is "incentivising against the Muslim community," Mr Owaisi said, pointing out that the "concerned minister" had warned that no student wearing anything other than hijab should be stopped at school gates.

"So practically every other religious symbol will be allowed. And who will be discriminated against? Girl students wearing hijab. That in itself will be violative of the Constitution's Article 15, which says you cannot discriminate on basis of religion and caste," he added.

The High Court's decision has been challenged in the Supreme Court by a woman who was not among the petitioners. The young women who petitioned the High Court, said they will not stop wearing hijab.

The row over hijab has acquired political overtones since it started in December last year. The High Court today suggested the possibility of "unseen hands" being at work to engineer social unrest and disharmony.

NDTV

 

[JaDed]

Beef is available, cow slaughtering isnt in most states.

Its based on the same principle where taxpayers paid for haj pilgrimage or muslim personal laws are exempted from courts or Rajiv Gandhi passed the Shah Bano law.

I wonder why those who cry about cow slaughtering ban, whine when uniform civil code is talked about?

I support uniform civil code it’s the BJP that will never implement it and just whine about it.

 

[JaDed]

It was argued by the lawyers and evidence presented.

Now are you in support of Namaz being allowed in schools? Or Friday to be a off day for muslims for their religious activities?

Not the same, so let me guess beef will be allowed in schools now because there is no law against it?

If religion has to be eliminated then let’s eliminate it completely not selectively, no more Diwali, Dussera holidays.

No wearing anything on forehead no prayers no Ganesh Idols or anything inside the school/colleges.

Whats the logic of having Sunday holiday?

 

[Lego20]

I support uniform civil code it’s the BJP that will never implement it and just whine about it.

Hindus/non-muslims/BJP would love UCC and would accept it at the drop of a hat. The only obstacle to UCC is muslim constituency which wants special privileges for itself.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Beef laws elevate the primacy of hindu religion over other religions. India can't be labelled secular when they exist, time to repeal.

What about muslim personal laws being beyond the courts? What and who do they elevate?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not the same, so let me guess beef will be allowed in schools now because there is no law against it?

If religion has to be eliminated then let’s eliminate it completely not selectively, no more Diwali, Dussera holidays.

No wearing anything on forehead no prayers no Ganesh Idols or anything inside the school/colleges.

Whats the logic of having Sunday holiday?

Sunday holiday is to coincide with global markets.

Why eliminate Dusshera and Diwali? Isnt EID or Christmas a holiday?

If a private organisations like RSS or RKM or DPS or AL ameen trust is running a school, they are free to decide what religious structure to keep or not to keep.

FYI hindus have been fined and punished in schools for wearing the tilak.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I support uniform civil code it’s the BJP that will never implement it and just whine about it.

They said BJP will never remove 370. They did

Next is UCC.

 

[JaDed]

They said BJP will never remove 370. They did

Next is UCC.

And if UCC has BEEF ban it’s already not uniform.

 

[cricketjoshila]

And if UCC has BEEF ban it’s already not uniform.

Let UCC come. The cow slaughter ban then can be challenged even in courts, if BJP doesn't remove it. The ciw slaughtering will always be a regulated industry though.

 

[rvd]

No doubt another initiative pushed by the BJP to marginalize Muslims in India.

Whatever your thoughts are on the Hijab the way this was enforced was horrendous and clearly had a communal element. Groups like RSS, VHP etc were harassing young girls and teachers attempting to enter school, or school authorities to ban these individuals.

I grew up in India and went to a school with a fair number of Muslim students. I don't recall any of the girls wearing a Hijab so this was never an issue. But that was a private school. Public schools putting in policies like these is not good.

What does relentless polarization accomplish other than dividing society further?

People of conservative backgrounds will send their kids to madrassas which will only perpetuate inequalities.

 

[Lego20]

No doubt another initiative pushed by the BJP to marginalize Muslims in India.

Whatever your thoughts are on the Hijab the way this was enforced was horrendous and clearly had a communal element. Groups like RSS, VHP etc were harassing young girls and teachers attempting to enter school, or school authorities to ban these individuals.

I grew up in India and went to a school with a fair number of Muslim students. I don't recall any of the girls wearing a Hijab so this was never an issue. But that was a private school. Public schools putting in policies like these is not good.

What does relentless polarization accomplish other than dividing society further?

People of conservative backgrounds will send their kids to madrassas which will only perpetuate inequalities.

1. School uniform is a norm in most schools in India applicable & enforced on all in the same way.
2. Muslim representation themselves did not assert on Hijab as an essential requirement (for exception) in Islam in the court unlike the Sikh community

Endof.

 

[Kroll]

Disgraceful, but the actions of a kangaroo court in a banana republic like India does not surprise me.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Muslim women who wish to cover their head should consider wearing the Sikh turban. Apparently some Sikh women also wear and no surprise the Karnataka government has allowed it. If the school objects to them wearing it they should say they have converted to Sikhism.

If the hijab goes Indian Muslims should do everything possible to make the turban go.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Judges decide. Thats how it is. Of any religion.

So do you accept Pakistan judges verdicts in their own country on citizens you claim are terrorists, ruling by their own values?

I know you can't answer this honestly without referring to your masters as a reference so best just ignore and hope no one reads this.

 

[Lego20]

Muslim women who wish to cover their head should consider wearing the Sikh turban. Apparently some Sikh women also wear and no surprise the Karnataka government has allowed it. If the school objects to them wearing it they should say they have converted to Sikhism.

If the hijab goes Indian Muslims should do everything possible to make the turban go.

What a loser mentality. Muslim clergy deems it non-compulsory. The verdict is in line with that. It has nothing to do with partiality or unfairness.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What a loser mentality. Muslim clergy deems it non-compulsory. The verdict is in line with that. It has nothing to do with partiality or unfairness.

If turbans are compulsory for Sikhs according to hindu judges, then why are so many Sikhs walking around India without turbans?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

What a loser mentality. Muslim clergy deems it non-compulsory. The verdict is in line with that. It has nothing to do with partiality or unfairness.

It has to do with sticking it to Muslims.

And Some clerics will say optional some will say mandatory. Ultimately the women should decide not some courts. But ok the courts say Muslim women don't need hijab, fine I actually agree with that, as in Muslim women dont need to wear a hijab. But I feel Sikhs don't need the turban either. You can still be Sikh without a turban. So that's what Indian Muslims should push for. A French style secularism for all. No Sikh exception.

 

[Itachi]

After going through this thread and reading various excuses by Indians, the gathered info is, anti-Muslim narrative and bigotry will continue and unlikely to end as long as the vast majority, including the educated ones, continue to support the bigots of India.

Why you are using others narrative and using terms such as "gotcha" while quoting me if the only thing you can say is, "other Indians said this and that....".

I won't hold you accountable for what other Pakistani posters write. Why I should be accountable for what other Indians write here.

This type of thought process doesn't actually make much sense to me to be honest.

 

[Itachi]

Muslim women who wish to cover their head should consider wearing the Sikh turban. Apparently some Sikh women also wear and no surprise the Karnataka government has allowed it. If the school objects to them wearing it they should say they have converted to Sikhism.

If the hijab goes Indian Muslims should do everything possible to make the turban go.

I think that will be a fair petition to be honest. Every one should have the right to challenge existing amendments and let the jurisdiction see it from a new perspective and make decision.

 

[Lego20]

It has to do with sticking it to Muslims.

And Some clerics will say optional some will say mandatory. Ultimately the women should decide not some courts. But ok the courts say Muslim women don't need hijab, fine I actually agree with that, as in Muslim women dont need to wear a hijab. But I feel Sikhs don't need the turban either. You can still be Sikh without a turban. So that's what Indian Muslims should push for. A French style secularism for all. No Sikh exception.

What you or I feel doesnt matter. Sikh clergy insisted and advocated for its exemption. I am sure if Muslim clergy did the same, muslims would be within their rights to expect a similar exemption under 25A.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If turbans are compulsory for Sikhs according to hindu judges, then why are so many Sikhs walking around India without turbans?

If they dont want to follow their religion, what can anyone do. This is not a religious republic where religious rules are forced upon.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Muslim women who wish to cover their head should consider wearing the Sikh turban. Apparently some Sikh women also wear and no surprise the Karnataka government has allowed it. If the school objects to them wearing it they should say they have converted to Sikhism.

If the hijab goes Indian Muslims should do everything possible to make the turban go.

The hijab cant be worn in campuses unless permitted by the campus authority. Thats the rule.

Muslims cannot force Sikhs to take their turban out. The court has already ruled in the favour of the sikhs.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If they dont want to follow their religion, what can anyone do. This is not a religious republic where religious rules are forced upon.

But it is a religious nation where religious rules are enforced. Beef bans in some states to enforce in favour of the majority hindu religion. Bans on head coverings which are highly discriminatory based on which religions the hindu majority is most vengeful against. No amount of dodging or manipulation of the great English language can divert from the hatred of the majority religion Hinduism against the Abrahamic faiths in India.

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

But it is a religious nation where religious rules are enforced. Beef bans in some states to enforce in favour of the majority hindu religion. Bans on head coverings which are highly discriminatory based on which religions the hindu majority is most vengeful against. No amount of dodging or manipulation of the great English language can divert from the hatred of the majority religion Hinduism against the Abrahamic faiths in India.

You seem to constantly keep confusing India with Pak. Must be a sign of old age. We are not a religious nation unlike Pak.

Unlike what you guys are constantly projecting - there is no blanket ban on hijabs or other coverings. Only in schools where uniforms are enforced. People are allowed to wear what they choose to outside. Just bringing this up again although you know it just so it doesn't get lost your verbosity.

Perhaps you folks can join together to get countries like Austria, Belgium and France to remove their blanket bans before worrying about India. We have a legal system here that takes care of all Indians regardless of religion. Whether you think it is discriminatory or not doesn't matter.

Better still why not fight for the right to wear what you want in Pak? A country that your thoughts as a British gentleman may have more influence given how tolerant the country is? After all the PM is a great crusader for minority rights there.

 

[cricketjoshila]

But it is a religious nation where religious rules are enforced. Beef bans in some states to enforce in favour of the majority hindu religion. Bans on head coverings which are highly discriminatory based on which religions the hindu majority is most vengeful against. No amount of dodging or manipulation of the great English language can divert from the hatred of the majority religion Hinduism against the Abrahamic faiths in India.

Cow slaughtering is banned. Beef anyone can eat. I didn't know killing another being was a fundamental right.

What discrimination? It depends on the institution if they allow hijab or not. Many institutions do allow it. Institutions are not required to follow islamic laws.

No amount of jumping up and down and frothing at mouth, trying to draw on other religions will force India to follow the islamic law.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You seem to constantly keep confusing India with Pak. Must be a sign of old age. We are not a religious nation unlike Pak.

Unlike what you guys are constantly projecting - there is no blanket ban on hijabs or other coverings. Only in schools where uniforms are enforced. People are allowed to wear what they choose to outside. Just bringing this up again although you know it just so it doesn't get lost your verbosity.

Perhaps you folks can join together to get countries like Austria, Belgium and France to remove their blanket bans before worrying about India. We have a legal system here that takes care of all Indians regardless of religion. Whether you think it is discriminatory or not doesn't matter.

Better still why not fight for the right to wear what you want in Pak? A country that your thoughts as a British gentleman may have more influence given how tolerant the country is? After all the PM is a great crusader for minority rights there.

You should go back to lurking if you don't understand how to carry out a debate respectfully, perhaps for a long time. Please don't quote me as I have no intention of replying to old posters who keep signing up with new IDs to promote their hate filled agendas.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Cow slaughtering is banned. Beef anyone can eat. I didn't know killing another being was a fundamental right.

What discrimination? It depends on the institution if they allow hijab or not. Many institutions do allow it. Institutions are not required to follow islamic laws.

No amount of jumping up and down and frothing at mouth, trying to draw on other religions will force India to follow the islamic law.

How does one jump up and down or froth at the mouth online? Is this how your judges in India conduct their reasoning? Are you ok?

Please at least learn to discourse properly if you want to be taken seriously when commenting on legal matters. Do your judges in India froth at the mouth or jump up and down when hearing cases and making their decisions?

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

You should go back to lurking if you don't understand how to carry out a debate respectfully, perhaps for a long time. Please don't quote me as I have no intention of replying to old posters who keep signing up with new IDs to promote their hate filled agendas.

Really? Who was I before?

And you really think you "debate" respectfully? You keep making outlandish and false claims like the Indian judges are hindutva etc. and say that you debate? Perhaps you have a different definition of debate in the UK.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How does one jump up and down or froth at the mouth online? Is this how your judges in India conduct their reasoning? Are you ok?

Please at least learn to discourse properly if you want to be taken seriously when commenting on legal matters. Do your judges in India froth at the mouth or jump up and down when hearing cases and making their decisions?

Like you and your friends are doing on this thread. Getting all twisted in matters that doesn't even concern pakistan. You guys were given a country in 1947, yet you cannot keep away from poking your nose in ours. Thank god for Modi, that he has downed the shutters.

Learn about what secular laws of India are and how they function. We do not copy others are follow islamic laws.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Like you and your friends are doing on this thread. Getting all twisted in matters that doesn't even concern pakistan. You guys were given a country in 1947, yet you cannot keep away from poking your nose in ours. Thank god for Modi, that he has downed the shutters.

Learn about what secular laws of India are and how they function. We do not copy others are follow islamic laws.

Since when was Britain given a nation in 1947? Are you really as an Indian trying to lecture a British person about secular laws where your PM rose to power on the back of a massacre of minorities in Gujarat?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Didn't you just say

We are not a religious nation..

I mean what's the worth and value left in anything you say after this?

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

Since when was Britain given a nation in 1947? Are you really as an Indian trying to lecture a British person about secular laws where your PM rose to power on the back of a massacre of minorities in Gujarat?

More outlandish claims .. kindly prove the point about the PM. I'm sure you must have evidence that the Supreme Court of India does not. Since you claim to debate - let's have a factual discussion about what the SC missed that is so obvious that you made that claim.

Also since you keep making incorrect statements about India - such as us being a religious country - you do need to be lectured. It's a different matter that you choose to ignore the content.

 

[Bilal_103]

Is India still considered a secular country?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Is India still considered a secular country?

It is secular when they want to ban the hijab, and religious when they want to make an exception for Sikhs to allow them to wear a turban.

 

[IMMY69]

The eye opening but in all this are the Indian posters here you seem to defend this as if their lives depended on it.

They are so blinded by Hindu Nationalism that they can't even see the pettiness..

Any sane person looking from the outside will see this as fear. A fear that the 200 million Indian Muslims are seen is a threat to them.

 

[LaLoco]

Is India still considered a secular country?

Epitomize the Indian hypocrisy due to inherited hatred toward Muslims. One group is allowed and other isn't.

Majority of Indian understand the concept of secularism but due to their inherited hate toward Muslims have decided to reduced themselves to be allowed to ridicule by almost every intellect and scholars, most have accepted being ridicule as a badge of honor so long they can subjugate and marginalize the largest minority of India, the Muslims.

This is not the end, the government run campaign in every entity has been going on and it will not end until India/Indians can only be described as a complete and only as Hindu rashtra.

 

[Local.Dada]

If Pakistan wants to make hijab compulsory for women I have no stake in the fight and I expect the same from the other side when a judgement has been passed after listening to all sides with all sides getting an equal representation of powerful lawyers. That’s about it. We value our army, judiciary and every institution equally. We don’t really have one section being called an “establishment”. Law and constitution overrides everything else. That’s all there is to it.

One can whine, cringe and throw a tantrum. It is what it is.

I personally am proud of my judiciary to give a fair judgment on law and proof rather than some emotional blackmail or external pressure.

India is truly secular and democratic after this judgement in my book.

 

[LaLoco]

If Pakistan wants to make hijab compulsory for women I have no stake in the fight and I expect the same from the other side when a judgement has been passed after listening to all sides with all sides getting an equal representation of powerful lawyers. That’s about it. We value our army, judiciary and every institution equally. We don’t really have one section being called an “establishment”. Law and constitution overrides everything else. That’s all there is to it.

One can whine, cringe and throw a tantrum. It is what it is.

I personally am proud of my judiciary to give a fair judgment on law and proof rather than some emotional blackmail or external pressure.

India is truly secular and democratic after this judgement in my book.

This is about India, not Pakistan - what's up with obsession with Pakistan? it is quite unhealthy where you have to compare everything with Pakistan while claiming to be supa-powa of South Asia

LOL - at Indian judiciary.

The only people who are throwing tantrum are Indians - by the can you explain the difference between a dress code and a chappal wearing person going to club still waiting on it.

Even Hitler had a book

 

[LaLoco]

If Pakistan wants to make hijab compulsory for women I have no stake in the fight and I expect the same from the other side when a judgement has been passed after listening to all sides with all sides getting an equal representation of powerful lawyers. That’s about it. We value our army, judiciary and every institution equally. We don’t really have one section being called an “establishment”. Law and constitution overrides everything else. That’s all there is to it.

One can whine, cringe and throw a tantrum. It is what it is.

I personally am proud of my judiciary to give a fair judgment on law and proof rather than some emotional blackmail or external pressure.

India is truly secular and democratic after this judgement in my book.

Also, since you have given the US example multiple times in this thread, could you please explain which institution in the US has prevented people from entering with their religious attire and what is the difference between a dress code and a religious attire - still waiting on it, US is a huge country and I am sure you can find one establishment as an example

If you can't then your book is as bad as mein kemf.

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

This is about India, not Pakistan - what's up with obsession with Pakistan? it is quite unhealthy where you have to compare everything with Pakistan while claiming to be supa-powa of South Asia

LOL - at Indian judiciary.

The only people who are throwing tantrum are Indians - by the can you explain the difference between a dress code and a chappal wearing person going to club still waiting on it.

Even Hitler had a book

Given that this is a Pak site and the majority of folks are of Pak origin or are Pakistani - would be an apt comparison no? Esp since it is the Pakistanis or those of Pak origin claiming something about the Indian govt and its judiciary?

And you are comparing this ruling limited to schools to Hitler's Nazism

What do you call the French, Belgians, Austrians etc.?

What do you call Pak's constitution where it is enshrined that ppl not Muslim cannot hold the highest offices of power... and written in your passports that if you are Ahmaddiya you are not Muslim. Instead of reforming your country (of origin) you think you folks have a moral superiority over India.

To borrow someone else's statement from above - it really shows how much you guys hate everyone that do not conform your version of religion!

 

[LaLoco]

Given that this is a Pak site and the majority of folks are of Pak origin or are Pakistani - would be an apt comparison no? Esp since it is the Pakistanis or those of Pak origin claiming something about the Indian govt and its judiciary?

Do check out the rest of the world, majority will compare your support of this ban outright hypocrisy and bigoted, particulalry after they find out how Sikhs are allowed to wear turban - and guess what, it is absolutely free to search for other opinion, internet

And you are comparing this ruling limited to schools to Hitler's Nazism

What do you call the French, Belgians, Austrians etc.?


French - are not being hypocrite, they have banned all not just Muslim religious attire

What do you call Pak's constitution where it is enshrined that ppl not Muslim cannot hold the highest offices of power... and written in your passports that if you are Ahmaddiya you are not Muslim. Instead of reforming your country (of origin) you think you folks have a moral superiority over India.
It is wrong, every citizen of Pakistan should have an opportunity to practice what they believe in and have opportunity to hold whatever highest office they wish to.

But this is just a copped out reply from most Indian who seem to have no answer to counter, it has been played out, time to come up with better reply


To borrow someone else's statement from above - it really shows how much you guys hate everyone that do not conform your version of religion!

Shouldn't everyone call out bigotry? what has court ruled regarding bigotry in India, is it allowed under BJP goverment? lol

Wow, I do not know if it is worth reply to such comment but why not, since you have claimed to be the guest on this forum then should give enough respect to reply.

Indians using France as an example - Bigotry do make one little less genius.

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

How about you folks worry about declaring ppl kafirs for the sake of a national id even if they happen to be your friends? And some people here are worried about Indian schoolgirls not being allowed to wear hijabs in schools that have an existing uniform

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

Wow, I do not know if it is worth reply to such comment but why not, since you have claimed to be the guest on this forum then should give enough respect to reply.

Indians using France as an example - Bigotry do make one little less genius.

Not sure why world opinion should shape India's laws? Surely our country should be allowed to make its own laws? Repeating this again. -- The court decided that the hijab is not a required part of Islam unlike the turban which was considered to an essential part of Sikhism. This matter is with the SC now. This judgement will be heard again and if the SC overturns the rule - it will ok to wear hijab (although the girls that come on tv protesting seem to be wearing burqa or niqab). If the SC upholds the ruling then follow the rules of the country or go to a school that allows you to wear hijab. The girls have the option of attending Muslim run schools that possibly allow them to wear hijab

- What answer does any Indian need to give any foreigner about our laws? Don't like it? Tough. We have a judicial system that handles things. We may not always agree - but at the end of the day the law has to reign supreme.

- Again, asking ppl to be like others is not bigotry. If people don't understand that... no point arguing. I'm sure there will be more of the same from those who don't have the guts to stop actual bigotry in a country they may have the power to do something in. Why not fix that before trying to act morally superior?

- Do you own this site? If not - you are a guest too. So I'm not sure what that condescending reply was meant for.

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

View attachment 115297

How about you folks worry about declaring ppl kafirs for the sake of a national id even if they happen to be your friends? And some people here are worried about Indian schoolgirls not being allowed to wear hijabs in schools that have an existing uniform

Btw - just curious - why the declaration only in case you are Muslim? Do non-muslims not get an ID or get a less elevated id in Pak? Can't believe the amount of hate you folks have to non-muslims!! Why is the crusader PM not changing this asap? He claimed he would show India how you treat your minorities? Why haven't the humanists (which this site seems to have a huge number of) not worried about changing these draconian laws? I guess your eyes haven't opened yet huh ?

 

[LaLoco]

View attachment 115297

How about you folks worry about declaring ppl kafirs for the sake of a national id even if they happen to be your friends? And some people here are worried about Indian schoolgirls not being allowed to wear hijabs in schools that have an existing uniform

You aren't the smartest cookie under any shed, are you?

Both Pakistan and India are wrong for this, you replying bigotry with other oppressive law in Pakistan doesn't make your support for bigotry okay, lol.

Such reply may work on DaDa and Joshila of India but not on the world that Indians due to complex try extremely hard to emulate

As for other comment to me - I mean, nothing you have said that worth reply, it is same repeated comment in support of bigotry.

But of course, India as a nation to apply whatever law they wish to, that is not the point, lol - but why do you all get upset for calling out what it is, bigoted? India as a nation has all the right to bigoted, no one is taking that right away from you - owning it would make it better for you to present your case

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

You aren't the smartest cookie under any shed, are you?

Both Pakistan and India are wrong for this, you replying bigotry with other oppressive law in Pakistan doesn't make your support for bigotry okay, lol.

Such reply may work on DaDa and Joshila of India but not on the world that Indians due to complex try extremely hard to emulate

As for other comment to me - I mean, nothing you have said that worth reply, it is same repeated comment in support of bigotry.

But of course, India has a nation to apply whatever law they wish to, that is not the point, lol - but why do you all get upset for calling out what it is, bigoted? India as a nation has all the right to bigoted, no one is taking that right away from you - it would be better for you to present your case if you understand that difference

Ah, the ad hominem . surprised it took so long!

I don't see much discussion here about things that are actually in your power. In fact with a PM that claimed that he will be a paragon for India on how to treat non-minorities - have done nothing for non-minorities. Something as basic as removing something as hateful as ts would be a great start! This is actual bigotry. This is actual hate for others. However, you folks are accepting or blind to it for some reason.

Yet somehow you folks have the audacity to virtue signal another country's laws because you claim to think otherwise.

 

[LaLoco]

Ah, the ad hominem . surprised it took so long!

I don't see much discussion here about things that are actually in your power. In fact with a PM that claimed that he will be a paragon for India on how to treat non-minorities - have done nothing for non-minorities. Something as basic as removing something as hateful as ts would be a great start! This is actual bigotry. This is actual hate for others. However, you folks are accepting or blind to it for some reason.

Yet somehow you folks have the audacity to virtue signal another country's laws because you claim to think otherwise.

You aren't the smarted cookie under any shed and this comment, again, shows it.

I don to speak for the rest of Pakistani, I speak for me.

You are correct, the Pakistani PM hasn't made a significant difference.

But again, what is this obsession with Pakistan, you keep comparing it with Pakistan to justify your support for bigotry? why not come out and speak out against this bigoted law design to marginalize Muslim female?

Do better to present your case, stop distorting what secularism is by giving example of France and the US ( hilarious) , stop re-defining Islam, just come out in open and claim "we want to subjugate and marginalize Muslim Female", most will still call your support bigoted but at least no one will ridicule you

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

You aren't the smarted cookie under any shed and this comment, again, shows it.

I don to speak for the rest of Pakistani, I speak for me.

You are correct, the Pakistani PM hasn't made a significant difference.

But again, what is this obsession with Pakistan, you keep comparing it with Pakistan to justify your support for bigotry? why not come out and speak out against this bigoted law design to marginalize Muslim female?

Do better to present your case, stop distorting what secularism is by giving example of France and the US ( hilarious) , stop re-defining Islam, just come out in open and claim "we want to subjugate and marginalize Muslim Female", most will still call your support bigoted but at least no one will ridicule you

You don't read what I write and repeat the same virtue signaling and call others names. I

I guess I can claim - what is your obsession with India? Why worry so much about another country? How does it affect you individually?

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

Do better to present your case, stop distorting what secularism is by giving example of France and the US ( hilarious) , stop re-defining Islam, just come out in open and claim "we want to subjugate and marginalize Muslim Female", most will still call your support bigoted but at least no one will ridicule you

France is a secular country according to its constitution and they have banned the hijab (complete ban unlike the special case in India only in schools). Same with Denmark, Austria and Belgium... You compared India with Hitler's Nazis for this ruling.. so what does it make these countries according to you?

 

[LaLoco]

You don't read what I write and repeat the same virtue signaling and call others names. I

I guess I can claim - what is your obsession with India? Why worry so much about another country? How does it affect you individually?

What? lol.


Discussing Indian law. - it is a forum.

Not comparing with Pakistan, only Indians are to justify bigoted law against the Muslim female of India when they are told, it is bigoted. And it is funny that under the same breath some of you all tell everyone that India will do what India will do but yet can't stop comparing with Pakistan

If you just claim it is the law that marginalize Muslim female of the India and it shows the hypocrisy of the India while allowing Sikh men to wear turban and you fully support such laws then that will be it.

But when y'all present France (laughable), the dress code (laughable), the US and other secular country then some one will call you out on your hypocrisy and bigotry and y'all shouldn't get upset, just admit the support for bigoted law. Own it

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

View attachment 115297

How about you folks worry about declaring ppl kafirs for the sake of a national id even if they happen to be your friends? And some people here are worried about Indian schoolgirls not being allowed to wear hijabs in schools that have an existing uniform

Pakistan doesn't claim to be a secular country though does it? Maybe you should declare a Hindu Rashtra in India and then no one will bother pointing out your hypocrisy.

 

[Lego20]

Like you and your friends are doing on this thread. Getting all twisted in matters that doesn't even concern pakistan. You guys were given a country in 1947, yet you cannot keep away from poking your nose in ours. Thank god for Modi, that he has downed the shutters.

Learn about what secular laws of India are and how they function. We do not copy others are follow islamic laws.

Their eyes light up with 2 words "India" and "Muslims".

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

Pakistan doesn't claim to be a secular country though does it? Maybe you should declare a Hindu Rashtra in India and then no one will bother pointing out your hypocrisy.

Why does that matter? Bigotry is bigotry right?

 

[LongtimeLurk3r]

What? lol.


Discussing Indian law. - it is a forum.

Not comparing with Pakistan, only Indians are to justify bigoted law against the Muslim female of India when they are told, it is bigoted. And it is funny that under the same breath some of you all tell everyone that India will do what India will do but yet can't stop comparing with Pakistan

If you just claim it is the law that marginalize Muslim female of the India and it shows the hypocrisy of the India while allowing Sikh men to wear turban and you fully support such laws then that will be it.

But when y'all present France (laughable), the dress code (laughable), the US and other secular country then some one will call you out on your hypocrisy and bigotry and y'all shouldn't get upset, just admit the support for bigoted law. Own it

You say I am obsessed with Pak if I talk about Pak - but talking nonsense about India is kosher huh? No obsession there?

What is laughable about me bringing up France and the other countries given that we are discussing banning Hijab (which these secular countries have a blanket ban on)?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why does that matter? Bigotry is bigotry right?

Adding to that - as a humanist from UK who apparently cares deeply about some girls with hijab who have the ability to go to a place that allows them to wear hijab to study - unlike a country that declares ppl non-muslims - you should be quivering with rage!!

Or is your humanism only directed towards India?

Is the thread about Pakistan? Or maybe you would like to discuss Brazil and Sri Lanka as well? You can make whatever laws you like in India, and crow about them wherever you like, but if you come here, then of course the claims of secularism will come under scrutiny.

If you want to discuss bigotry in Pakistan then there are many threads on here, please take up the matter there.

 

[LaLoco]

You say I am obsessed with Pak if I talk about Pak - but talking nonsense about India is kosher huh? No obsession there?

What is laughable about me bringing up France and the other countries given that we are discussing banning Hijab (which these secular countries have a blanket ban on)?

Nonsense?

-Hypocrisy in this context - Sikh men are allow to wear a turban but Muslim female aren't allow to wear Hijab. - text book hypocrisy.

-Secularism in this context - You and your fellow citizen of Hindu Rashtra kept on giving example of France. France stand on religious symbols and attire - " The French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools bans wearing conspicuous religious symbols in French public (e.g., government-operated) primary and secondary schools.

The law does not mention any particular religious symbol, and thus bans Christian (veil, signs), Muslim (veil, signs), Sikh (turban, signs), Jewish and other religious signs.

DADA of Hindu Rashtra is yet to give an example of the US where religious attire are banned from a government designated establishment - we are still waiting my dude.

So, is India a secular country or Hindu Rashtra that can not afford or will not marginalize Sikh of India but out of pure hate will make every and any effort to marginalize Muslims of India, female, in this case.

India is a democracy, where vast majority support such ban on Muslims but not on Sikh but democracy does not mean Secularism, two different concept.

So where have I talked nonsense about India, all my comments regarding India is within the context whereas yours, comparing with Pakistan is not, which is probably the most played out nonsense non correlating counter of India not being a Hindu Rashtra - OWN the Rashtra

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The hijab cant be worn in campuses unless permitted by the campus authority. Thats the rule.

Muslims cannot force Sikhs to take their turban out. The court has already ruled in the favour of the sikhs.

Then like I mentioned Muslim women who wish to cover their head should consider wearing the Sikh turban. If one needs to cover her head for modesty, then the turban and hijab both accomplish that. If the school still harasses them for wearing it they should say have decided to become Sikh.