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West Indies of 80s vs Pakistan of 90s vs Australia of 2000s vs India of 2010s in ODIs

TheNightWatchman

TheNightWatchman

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Who would win in a hypothetical tournament between the 4. Yes, India and Pakistan probably aren't as unbeatable like WI and Aus were but they were still one of the best teams in their respective generations.

Also Bonus. Who would be the top 5 bowlers and batsmen altogether from these teams. And (Who would win golden bat and golden ball in this hypothetical tournament)

Also just to make this more fun. Who would win these contests
Imran vs Dhoni
Wasim vs Kohli
McGrath vs Viv
Marshall vs Sehwag
Warne vs Miandad
 
The WI of the 80s and the Aussies of the 2000s will wipe the floor with the Pakistan of the 90s and the current Indian setup. Never mind the presence of Wasim, Waqar, Imran and Javed in the Pakistan of the '90s.
 
gani999 said:
The WI of the 80s and the Aussies of the 2000s will wipe the floor with the Pakistan of the 90s and the current Indian setup. Never mind the presence of Wasim, Waqar, Imran and Javed in the Pakistan of the '90s.
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Not necessarily the current India set up. What about the the team that won the 2011 WC. And tbf Pakistan of the late 80s was the only team that actually gave WI some serious competition so saying they would wipe the floor with them is an overstatement
 
Is this a serious thread?

The WI and the Aussies who won consecutive WCs on the trot and decimated sides home and away....are being compared by India and Pakistan who have more or less been home bullies?

Those two would wipe the floor with any team in the last 15 years never mind India and Pakistan of the 90s and 2010s.
 
1) Windies
2) Aussies
3) Pakistanis
4) Indians
 
TheNightWatchman said:
Who would win in a hypothetical tournament between the 4. Yes, India and Pakistan probably aren't as unbeatable like WI and Aus were but they were still one of the best teams in their respective generations.

Also Bonus. Who would be the top 5 bowlers and batsmen altogether from these teams. And (Who would win golden bat and golden ball in this hypothetical tournament)

Also just to make this more fun. Who would win these contests
Imran vs Dhoni
Wasim vs Kohli
McGrath vs Viv
Marshall vs Sehwag
Warne vs Miandad
Click to expand...

Pakistan was a much better team in the 80s
We were unbeatable at home and won almost every cup except the WC
Check our record in that time
 
Pak of the 90s is a joke. As if they were a dominant force outside Asia??

Same goes with India, they are not invincible outside home. You cannot compare them to the Australia side upto the year 2007. That side was a monster everywhere
 
Pak of 90s and India of 10s weren't even close to Saffers of both era if you exclude the WC victory.
 
90s Pakistan were an overrated team. I rate the 80s team under Imran and even India of 2008-2011 much much higher. We had all the talent in the world in 90s but our results were severely disappointing if you go through them and we underperformed. Despite having the likes of Wasim/Waqar/Saqlain/Mushy/Inzi/Yousuf in the team, we had so many underwhelming results.... Series loss to Zimbabwe, 2 series losses AT HOME to SL, getting smashed repeatedly in Australia, getting owned in both series vs SA home as well as away.... That team was so talented yet achieved far less than their potential.

The lack of a leader like Imran was a huge deficiency. Imran's team went toe to toe with the dominant wi team of the 80s. Our 90s team lost to likes of SL and Zimbabwe.
 
Pakistan of the 90s is far behind the other 3 teams. Even SA of the last decade was stronger.
 
Rana said:
Pak of the 90s is a joke. As if they were a dominant force outside Asia??

Same goes with India, they are not invincible outside home. You cannot compare them to the Australia side upto the year 2007. That side was a monster everywhere
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Nah, Pak of the 90's won in England and New Zealand regularly, drew in South Africa, nearly won in the Caribbean, would have won the Hobart test in 1999 as well, if not for bad umpiring.
 
Should have clarified earlier. I am strictly talking ODIs. Pak of the 90s couldn't make it if we are talking tests
 
Bilal7 said:
1) Windies
2) Aussies
3) Pakistanis
4) Indians
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http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-90s-Pakistan-team-weakest-at-home&highlight=

AlizeeFan said:
From 1982 to 1994, Pakistan didn't lose a series at home. They played 16 test series, won 12 and drawn 4.

You can extend it to 1973, played 23 test series, lost 1, won 15 and drawn 7.

From 1995 to 2001, was the worst phase. Played 11 series at home, lost 7 and won 3 and drawn 1.

From 2002 to 2007, played 11 series, won 7, lost 3 and drawn 1.

From 2008 to 2017, played 10, won 5 and drawn 5. Won't be winning this series either.
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AlizeeFan said:
From being absolutely unbeatable at home, suddenly they started losing everything at home.

Out of those 3 series wins, 1 was against Bangladesh.

Once they started losing matches, their record was like 7 wins in 25 tests with 9 losses.
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Markhor said:
I've said this countless times - the Pakistan Test team between 1982-1994 was our best ever NOT the mid to late 1990s team which gets overly romanticised.

I watched us in that period and we were a shambles in Tests. Constant shuffling of players and captains, batting collapses, kack of discipline, the spectre of matchfixing and some extremely poor results.

We lost twice to Sri Lanka (1995 and 2000), Zimbabwe, England, South Africa, Australia and drew with a fairly weak New Zealand. That is not a team worthy of all this hype and hyperbole that continues to this day.
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What on earth is this romanticism with the "90's Pakistan" have you not had a look at their record ? they would get DESTROYED by all those teams, Misbah's Pakistan would show more heart then that overly rated bunch who were only good on paper.
 
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At what stage were 90s Pakistan the best team in the world?
 
TheNightWatchman said:
Should have clarified earlier. I am strictly talking ODIs. Pak of the 90s couldn't make it if we are talking tests
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Well how do you compare any of those teams with the Australian side that won three consecutive world cups including two undefeated?
 
When India had inform Yuvi/Dhoni/Viru/Gambhir that would have been a good contest. Not now. This is not even India's best ever. Gigantic hole in the middle order.
 
WI, always & forever will be the undisputed GOAT team for me, an attack unmatched before or since, not even by Aus!
 
West Indies is greatest ever.Australia slightly behind.Pakistan and India nowhere close.
This indian batting line up is nowhere as good as the one we had between 2000-2010.Take out kohli and it all unravels.Sehwag-gambhir-dravid-tendulkar-laxman -ganguly/yuvraj -dhoni was the best we had in tests.In ODIs the one we brought to the 2011 wc was the strongest Sehwag-tendulkar-gambhir-kohli-yuvraj-dhoni-raina.
 
How would the West Indian attack go now that they have to bowl 90 overs a day?
 
shaz619 said:
What on earth is this romanticism with the "90's Pakistan" have you not had a look at their record ? they would get DESTROYED by all those teams, Misbah's Pakistan would show more heart then that overly rated bunch who were only good on paper.
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Agreed, same goes for India as well.
 
Convict said:
How would the West Indian attack go now that they have to bowl 90 overs a day?
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They'd blow away most oppositions anyway, unless we are talking about the teams' best ever batting combinations playing in their home on flat tracks. Even now England & Aus fail to bowl their quote of 90 overs, in a day, regularly yet the captains escape punishment time & again.
 
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Too much nostalgia artificially props up older teams like you would never believe ... especially those from the 80s and before .... the likes of [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] never tire of reminding us how these teams had bowlers (like Marshall) who could bowl at MACH-1 speeds and batsmen with exceptional technique who could cane such bowling on a regular basis. Sadly all of this is just talk ... they are yet to produce one single video clip where the above can be verified.

The only matchup I would like to see is the Aussies vs Indians. It would be interesting to see how the Aussies performed without any help from crooked umpires.
 
Tusker said:
Too much nostalgia artificially props up older teams like you would never believe ... especially those from the 80s and before .... the likes of [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] never tire of reminding us how these teams had bowlers (like Marshall) who could bowl at MACH-1 speeds and batsmen with exceptional technique who could cane such bowling on a regular basis. Sadly all of this is just talk ... they are yet to produce one single video clip where the above can be verified.

The only matchup I would like to see is the Aussies vs Indians. It would be interesting to see how the Aussies performed without any help from crooked umpires.
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You talk about the delusion of others and then you end your post insinuating that "umpiring" of all things was a factor in Australia's dominance. Seriously? I'd call it ironic but this is something much beyond that even. India 2004 was a much stronger team than India 2017 and they got pummeled by Australia in 2004. What makes you think India 2017 has a chance?
 
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Proactive_ said:
You talk about the delusion of others and then you end your post insinuating that "umpiring" of all things was a factor in Australia's dominance. Seriously? I'd call it ironic but this is something much beyond that even. India 2004 was a much stronger team than India 2017 and they got pummeled by Australia in 2004. What makes you think India 2017 has a chance?
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Because I watched that 2004 series ball-by-ball and I know how they got bailed out by Bowden and Bucknor regularly. Our own internal politics ensured that Nagpur pitch was more suitable to the Aussies and rain wiping out Day 5 when we were in a good position. Also a scoreline of 2-1 doesnt suggest any "hammering" of any sort.

Today the only uncontrollable is the rain.
 
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Tusker said:
Because I watched that 2004 series ball-by-ball and I know how they got bailed out by Bowden and Bucknor regularly. Our own internal politics ensured that Nagpur pitch was more suitable to the Aussies and rain wiping out Day 5 when we were in a good position. Also a scoreline of 2-1 doesnt suggest any "hammering" of any sort.

Today the only uncontrollable is the rain.
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Well, quite a lot of people watched that series ball by ball and are unanimously of the view that Australia thoroughly outplayed India in that series. Victories by 342 and 217 runs suggest nothing but unequivocal domination. By your reasoning, every series before the DRS should be nullified because there was more scope of wrong decisions than there is now.

Coming to which, how about this wrong decision in a precarious position during India's greatest Test victory fo all time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74IL14_A3eQ

Should this match also be nullified and not be seen and celebrated as a part of history only because a plumb LBW was not given resulting in a great recovery and eventual win? Your bias against anything that is not contemporary is astounding.
 
Proactive_ said:
Well, quite a lot of people watched that series ball by ball and are unanimously of the view that Australia thoroughly outplayed India in that series. Victories by 342 and 217 runs suggest nothing but unequivocal domination. By your reasoning, every series before the DRS should be nullified because there was more scope of wrong decisions than there is now.
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One single bad decision can affect a match especially when you are playing a top team ... ( Eg Symonds in 2008 ... who went on to make a big hundred ) let alone a series of bad decisions. In the first match at B'luru Irfan had Langer plumb on the first or second ball of the match. Then Sehwag was given bat before wkt and then fined for violating spirit of the game lol. I can keep going on and on.



Coming to which, how about this wrong decision in a precarious position during India's greatest Test victory fo all time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74IL14_A3eQ

Should this match also be nullified and not be seen and celebrated as a part of history only because a plumb LBW was not given resulting in a great recovery and eventual win? Your bias against anything that is not contemporary is astounding.
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later on they showed the impact using pitch mat and it was confirmed that it hit just outside off. Even with DRS that would not have been overturned.

However Gillespie edging to Mongia early in his inngs but turned down by the same umpire would have been over turned and it would have cost Australia about 100 runs atleast in the 1st inngs.
 
Proactive_ said:
You talk about the delusion of others and then you end your post insinuating that "umpiring" of all things was a factor in Australia's dominance. Seriously? I'd call it ironic but this is something much beyond that even. India 2004 was a much stronger team than India 2017 and they got pummeled by Australia in 2004. What makes you think India 2017 has a chance?
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By no means did we get pummeled in 2004.We lost 2-1.Kumble one half our bowling strike force was absent.Tendulkar crippled by injury and missing half the matches,half fit in rest.
2nd test match we were poised to win after sehwag ton,when rain washed out.
In decider 3rd test match curator prepared a greentop out of spite with board completely going against home advantage principle.
In 2007 tour going to australia we were robbed at sydney otherwise series would have been repeat of 2003 tour i.e 1-1 draw,and also beat australia in 2 ODI finals 2-0.We won 2001 series at home.Won 1998 series at home comfortably and lost away in 1999 badly.
In 2008 when australia came back to india they were defeated 2-0.They still had great players like lee,gillespie,hayden,symonds,hussey,clarke,ponting.

We were actually the one side that were consistently competitive during that era against australia in tests.To a much lesser extent we also harrassed them in ODI,we knocked them out in 1998 champions trophy and in 2000 champions trophy.Our main problem always was except in home conditions we didn't have bowlers to take aussie batsmen.But batting wise we were the one side in the world that could match them blow for blow.
 
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Tusker said:
Too much nostalgia artificially props up older teams like you would never believe ... especially those from the 80s and before .... the likes of [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] never tire of reminding us how these teams had bowlers (like Marshall) who could bowl at MACH-1 speeds and batsmen with exceptional technique who could cane such bowling on a regular basis. Sadly all of this is just talk ... they are yet to produce one single video clip where the above can be verified.

The only matchup I would like to see is the Aussies vs Indians. It would be interesting to see how the Aussies performed without any help from crooked umpires.
Click to expand...

Watch some videos of robelinda2 with full match highlights of that era in youtube.Watch fire in babylon movie.West indies deserved their reputation.Even in modern era i remember curtly ambrose as a terror.
 
TheNightWatchman said:
Should have clarified earlier. I am strictly talking ODIs. Pak of the 90s couldn't make it if we are talking tests
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The greatest ODI team the world has ever seen, is the one that won the Benson & Hedges World Championship of Cricket 1985. No other team has ever destroyed every opposing team in a tournament with as much ease as this one did. I remember watching the games, and after the first few ones it became a bit boring because you knew the final outcome of every game India played long before it was over.

Not even in one match was the opposing team able to run India close.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/60849.html

The second greatest team would likely have been the Australian 2003 WC team, which had an almost equally dominating performance except for winning their game against England with 2 wkts and 2 balls remaining.
 
Tusker said:
One single bad decision can affect a match especially when you are playing a top team ... ( Eg Symonds in 2008 ... who went on to make a big hundred ) let alone a series of bad decisions. In the first match at B'luru Irfan had Langer plumb on the first or second ball of the match. Then Sehwag was given bat before wkt and then fined for violating spirit of the game lol. I can keep going on and on.
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So what's your reasoning behind thinking that only Australia's opponents were copping all the wrong decisions and never Australia themselves? You mention Sydney 2008 but hilariously fail to mention the wrong decisions that went against Australia as well like the Ponting LBW in the same match which had one of the most clear inside edges in LBW history. That was as shocking a decision that any India copped. Stop with the victimist mentality already.



later on they showed the impact using pitch mat and it was confirmed that it hit just outside off. Even with DRS that would not have been overturned.
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The replay is in the video. No way it's anywhere near outside the line. If I remember, there was no hawkeye then and the best that could be done was the grid lines they used in the line of the stumps. That's as plumb an LBW as you can get. You got to be seriously trolling if you think otherwise.

However Gillespie edging to Mongia early in his inngs but turned down by the same umpire would have been over turned and it would have cost Australia about 100 runs atleast in the 1st inngs.
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That's the point. Wrong decisions happened, on both sides. I don't know from where you've got hold of this little conspiracy theory that the umpires were always in the Aussies' pocket. That unit dominated teams away from home consistently and used to whitewash them for good measure. Not recognizing the domination that they exhibited is just a case of sour grapes tbh.
 
Napa said:
The greatest ODI team the world has ever seen, is the one that won the Benson & Hedges World Championship of Cricket 1985. No other team has ever destroyed every opposing team in a tournament with as much ease as this one did. I remember watching the games, and after the first few ones it became a bit boring because you knew the final outcome of every game India played long before it was over.

Not even in one match was the opposing team able to run India close.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/60849.html

The second greatest team would likely have been the Australian 2003 WC team, which had an almost equally dominating performance except for winning their game against England with 2 wkts and 2 balls remaining.
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Australia 2007 WC Team's narrowest victory by runs was 83 runs (without DL) and by wickets was 7 wickets and it was over a span of many more matches than B&H 1985.
 
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austerlitz said:
By no means did we get pummeled in 2004.We lost 2-1.Kumble one half our bowling strike force was absent.Tendulkar crippled by injury and missing half the matches,half fit in rest.
2nd test match we were poised to win after sehwag ton,when rain washed out.
In decider 3rd test match curator prepared a greentop out of spite with board completely going against home advantage principle.
In 2007 tour going to australia we were robbed at sydney otherwise series would have been repeat of 2003 tour i.e 1-1 draw,and also beat australia in 2 ODI finals 2-0.We won 2001 series at home.Won 1998 series at home comfortably and lost away in 1999 badly.
In 2008 when australia came back to india they were defeated 2-0.They still had great players like lee,gillespie,hayden,symonds,hussey,clarke,ponting.

We were actually the one side that were consistently competitive during that era against australia in tests.To a much lesser extent we also harrassed them in ODI,we knocked them out in 1998 champions trophy and in 2000 champions trophy.Our main problem always was except in home conditions we didn't have bowlers to take aussie batsmen.But batting wise we were the one side in the world that could match them blow for blow.
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Not really. Australia slammed India 3-0 in 1999 which was the only series India played against Australia in Australia during it's dominance days when Warne and McGrath were playing. The 2001 series was decided with India 8 wickets down in the 4th innings of the last Test. The 2004 series was anything but competitive, sure India was handicapped by the absence of Kumble but yet margins of 200+ and 300+ in defeat as compared to a barely 10 run victory is hardly equalizing, and by 2008 Australia was half the team it was during it's glory days with Warne, McGrath and Langer gone.
 
I would put Australia ahead of Windies for the simple reason they had Gilchrist. Windies didn't. There is only one Gilchrist .
 
Proactive_ said:
Australia 2007 WC Team's narrowest victory by runs was 83 runs (without DL) and by wickets was 7 wickets and it was over a span of many more matches than B&H 1985.
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No good reason to not include the DL final.

Also, by 2007 the historically strong team WI was gone, and Australia neither played WI nor India. In 1985 in comparison, India played every other top country.
 
Proactive_ said:
Not really. Australia slammed India 3-0 in 1999 which was the only series India played against Australia in Australia during it's dominance days when Warne and McGrath were playing. The 2001 series was decided with India 8 wickets down in the 4th innings of the last Test. The 2004 series was anything but competitive, sure India was handicapped by the absence of Kumble but yet margins of 200+ and 300+ in defeat as compared to a barely 10 run victory is hardly equalizing, and by 2008 Australia was half the team it was during it's glory days with Warne, McGrath and Langer gone.
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Do remind me, my memory is not what it used to be, but I seem to remember you saying something like "quintessential stats nerd if I ever saw one".

Is that something to be said only when it suits your agenda?
 
Proactive_ said:
Australia 2007 WC Team's narrowest victory by runs was 83 runs (without DL) and by wickets was 7 wickets and <b>it was over a span of many more matches than B&H 1985.</b>
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Oh whoopeee, victories over cricketing giants like Scotland, Netherlands and Ireland.
 
Napa said:
No good reason to not include the DL final.

Also, by 2007 the historically strong team WI was gone, and Australia neither played WI nor India. In 1985 in comparison, India played every other top country.
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So what you're saying is that there was no team good in ODIs except Australia in 2007? Because Australia played all the top teams (except India/Pak who couldn't get past Bang/Ire respectively in the group stage). Australia dominated from start to finish and mauled the then No.2 ranked team NZ by 200+ runs. That Australian unit was just on another level.
 
Napa said:
Oh whoopeee, victories over cricketing giants like Scotland, Netherlands and Ireland.
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As I said, they faced every top team in the world in that WC except India/Pak, who couldn't get past the group stage.

In comparison, India in 1985 faced:

Pak x2
Aus
Eng
NZ
 
What is Pakistan of 90s doing in the list or for that matter India.

Aus of 2000s was the strongest team ever followed by WI of 80s.Rest all simply dont count.
 
Proactive_ said:
So what's your reasoning behind thinking that only Australia's opponents were copping all the wrong decisions and never Australia themselves? You mention Sydney 2008 but hilariously fail to mention the wrong decisions that went against Australia as well like the Ponting LBW in the same match which had one of the most clear inside edges in LBW history. That was as shocking a decision that any India copped. Stop with the victimist mentality already.
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Because thats what invariably happened by and large. Iam not saying ALL decisions favored Aus ... however a vast majority of them did. Yes Ponting wasnt out but so wasnt Dravid, nor was Ganguly and so on and so forth ... the net effect is almost always in favor of Aus. Do you think it is a small thing to fire an Umpire ? Yep thats what happened to Bucknor after that Sydney 2008 test. If you think the umpiring was fair then you are sadly mistaken or one of those apologists who refuses to accept facts.

Are you seriously suggesting that the likes of Bucknor and Benson and Bowden together did not completely mug India ? Seriously ?


The replay is in the video. No way it's anywhere near outside the line. If I remember, there was no hawkeye then and the best that could be done was the grid lines they used in the line of the stumps. That's as plumb an LBW as you can get. You got to be seriously trolling if you think otherwise.
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The replay with pitch mat is not there in the video you posted.

That's the point. Wrong decisions happened, on both sides. I don't know from where you've got hold of this little conspiracy theory that the umpires were always in the Aussies' pocket. That unit dominated teams away from home consistently and used to whitewash them for good measure. Not recognizing the domination that they exhibited is just a case of sour grapes tbh.
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See above. Feel free to write down every wrong decision that went against Aus and i will come up with many more that went for them. This just wont happen now and is what makes a truly fair contest.

BTW nobody disputes the greatness of that Aussie team. Its just that the umpiring situation puts a mark on their accomplishments. Unfortunate no doubt.
 
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Pakistan of mid to late 80s were a bigger, more disciplined threat. In both formats.
 
Proactive_ said:
Not really. Australia slammed India 3-0 in 1999 which was the only series India played against Australia in Australia during it's dominance days when Warne and McGrath were playing. The 2001 series was decided with India 8 wickets down in the 4th innings of the last Test. The 2004 series was anything but competitive, sure India was handicapped by the absence of Kumble but yet margins of 200+ and 300+ in defeat as compared to a barely 10 run victory is hardly equalizing, and by 2008 Australia was half the team it was during it's glory days with Warne, McGrath and Langer gone.
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Only one they lacked in 2001/2003 was mcgrath .Warne missing in 2003 is not a factor because warne is useless against us always.In 2004 main reason was one half of out strike bowlers gone,our main batsman tendulkar crippled,rain saving them in one match and then green pitch fiasco in decider.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I would put Australia ahead of Windies for the simple reason they had Gilchrist. Windies didn't. There is only one Gilchrist .
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Lee,gillespie,mcgrath and warne are no comparison for roberts,holding,marshall,garner,croft.
Haynes-greenidge equal or near equal of hayden-langer.
Richards ahead of ponting.
Llyod,gomes,Kalicharan/Rowe,Richardson equal of any lower order.But gilchrist evens it out.

West Indies of the 80s are the only team to ever whitewash england 5-0 in england,australia 3-0 in australia and india 3-0 in India.Credit to Imran's pakistan where its due .They were the one side that fought west indies well during that time.Drew a couple of series home and away though finally lost 2-0 in 92.
 
90s-early 2000s Pakistan would be able to compete with anyone in ODIs. They proved that by beating the Aussies in Australia.

Can't say the same for India.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
90s-early 2000s Pakistan would be able to compete with anyone in ODIs. They proved that by beating the Aussies in Australia.

Can't say the same for India.
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Our team to beat australia in australia 2-0 in 2007.Whats your point.Pakistan mid 90s always a deadly side,but too inconsistent to be called atg team.
 
austerlitz said:
Our team to beat australia in australia 2-0 in 2007.Whats your point.Pakistan mid 90s always a deadly side,but too inconsistent to be called atg team.
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It says India of 2010s.

It's a 4 team tournament, why would consistency be a factor? This is where Pakistan thrive.
 
Proactive_ said:
Not really. Australia slammed India 3-0 in 1999 which was the only series India played against Australia in Australia during it's dominance days when Warne and McGrath were playing. The 2001 series was decided with India 8 wickets down in the 4th innings of the last Test. The 2004 series was anything but competitive, sure India was handicapped by the absence of Kumble but yet margins of 200+ and 300+ in defeat as compared to a barely 10 run victory is hardly equalizing, and by 2008 Australia was half the team it was during it's glory days with Warne, McGrath and Langer gone.
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Kumble ?? He most certainly played in the 2004 series. It was Tendulkar (And Ponting lol ) who India missed in the 2004 Series. Then there was Bowden and bucknor. This is why I say that you really don't know what you are talking about.
 
austerlitz said:
Lee,gillespie,mcgrath and warne are no comparison for roberts,holding,marshall,garner,croft.
Haynes-greenidge equal or near equal of hayden-langer.
Richards ahead of ponting.
Llyod,gomes,Kalicharan/Rowe,Richardson equal of any lower order.But gilchrist evens it out.

West Indies of the 80s are the only team to ever whitewash england 5-0 in england,australia 3-0 in australia and india 3-0 in India.Credit to Imran's pakistan where its due .They were the one side that fought west indies well during that time.Drew a couple of series home and away though finally lost 2-0 in 92.
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India also Drew vs WI 1-1 in 1987/88 at home and don't forget 1983 WC where we beat them twice.
 
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Proactive_ said:
As I said, they faced every top team in the world in that WC except India/Pak, who couldn't get past the group stage.

In comparison, India in 1985 faced:

Pak x2
Aus
Eng
NZ
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tbf India were pretty good till 1987 final after that they could never recover mentally till 2000
 
Tusker said:
Kumble ?? He most certainly played in the 2004 series. It was Tendulkar (And Ponting lol ) who India missed in the 2004 Series. Then there was Bowden and bucknor. This is why I say that you really don't know what you are talking about.
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Tendulkar did play actually the last 2 Tests in that series if I remember correctly. My bad at missing Kumble though, I genuinely didn't remember he was there, Murali Karthik playing in that series was in my mind, maybe he was in place of Harbhajan for one or more of those Tests. But again, I just don't remember any controversy regarding umpiring in that series. You're again trying to stir the pot for no reason.
 
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Proactive_ said:
Tendulkar did play actually the last 2 Tests in that series if I remember correctly. My bad at missing Kumble though, I genuinely didn't remember he was there, Murali Karthik playing in that series was in my mind, maybe he was in place of Harbhajan for one or more of those Tests.
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Tendulkar missed first 2 tests due to injury and was rushed back in haste for the last 2 tests. Yet a half fit and completely out of form Tendulkar produced one of greatest innings on an absolute spiteful pitch in the 4th Test.

But again, I just don't remember any controversy regarding umpiring in that series. You're again trying to stir the pot for no reason.
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Perhaps because you didnt really see it ?

Here just 2 of the many horrible decisions in that series:

https://youtu.be/fRSicFyQgvM?t=1m1s

https://youtu.be/fRSicFyQgvM?t=35m6s <-- watch Sehwags angry response to Bowden.

The footage is missing plumb lbw's not given for Clarke and few others.
 
shaz619 said:
What on earth is this romanticism with the "90's Pakistan" have you not had a look at their record ? they would get DESTROYED by all those teams, Misbah's Pakistan would show more heart then that overly rated bunch who were only good on paper.
Click to expand...

True but they were seriously good on paper.
 
Tusker said:
Tendulkar missed first 2 tests due to injury and was rushed back in haste for the last 2 tests. Yet a half fit and completely out of form Tendulkar produced one of greatest innings on an absolute spiteful pitch in the 4th Test.
Click to expand...

Which means he did play, not what you initially said.



Perhaps because you didnt really see it ?

Here just 2 of the many horrible decisions in that series:

https://youtu.be/fRSicFyQgvM?t=1m1s

https://youtu.be/fRSicFyQgvM?t=35m6s <-- watch Sehwags angry response to Bowden.

The footage is missing plumb lbw's not given for Clarke and few others.
Click to expand...

I didn't say their weren't any bad decisions, of course there were and still are bad decisions in every series for god's sake. Umpires aren't Gods, only certain batsmen from cricket crazed nations get to be that in the cricketing world. What exactly makes you think that there was a concerted conspiracy by the umpires going on against India? And since when did you start having beef with Bowden? At this rate, you're probably gonna run out of every non Indian umpire to have ever officiated before the DRS. Not a single player from either side ever commented on the umpiring in that series, not even board officials or any other related personnel.
 
Last edited:
Tusker said:
Because I watched that 2004 series ball-by-ball and I know how they got bailed out by Bowden and Bucknor regularly. Our own internal politics ensured that Nagpur pitch was more suitable to the Aussies and rain wiping out Day 5 when we were in a good position. Also a scoreline of 2-1 doesnt suggest any "hammering" of any sort.

Today the only uncontrollable is the rain.
Click to expand...

I agree - there were multiple wrong decisions given against India by Bucknor.
 
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]

Just see what I found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql3zNlgWD0w

A clear nick not given in the 98 India-Aus series. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, by your line of reasoning shouldn't it be proff enough that there was a conspiracy against Australia in that series and that series shouldn't really count? What say?

One more from Kolkata 2001.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzXaUZ2H7sI
 
Last edited:
TheNightWatchman said:
Who would win in a hypothetical tournament between the 4. Yes, India and Pakistan probably aren't as unbeatable like WI and Aus were but they were still one of the best teams in their respective generations.

Also Bonus. Who would be the top 5 bowlers and batsmen altogether from these teams. And (Who would win golden bat and golden ball in this hypothetical tournament)

Also just to make this more fun. Who would win these contests
Imran vs Dhoni
Wasim vs Kohli
McGrath vs Viv
Marshall vs Sehwag
Warne vs Miandad
Click to expand...

As far as the contests are concerned,

Dhoni
Wasim
McGrath
Marshall
Warne
 
Proactive_ said:
Which means he did play, not what you initially said.

Perhaps because you didnt really see it ?

I didn't say their weren't any bad decisions, of course there were and still are bad decisions in every series for god's sake. Umpires aren't Gods, only certain batsmen from cricket crazed nations get to be that in the cricketing world. What exactly makes you think that there was a concerted conspiracy by the umpires going on against India? And since when did you start having beef with Bowden? At this rate, you're probably gonna run out of every non Indian umpire to have ever officiated before the DRS. Not a single player from either side ever commented on the umpiring in that series, not even board officials or any other related personnel.
Click to expand...


http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/142352.html

From that link:

Bowden and Steve Bucknor made at least seven incorrect calls during the Test, most of them going against India, but the captain Sourav Ganguly refused to be critical. "You've all seen it on TV," he said. "We understand that, and move forward."
Click to expand...
 
Proactive_ said:
The same article says that wrong decisions were against both teams and that Ganguly refused to be critical. Don't quite understand what is there in the article that supports your point.
Click to expand...

lets try again with visual effects :

Bowden and Steve Bucknor made at least seven incorrect calls during the Test, most of them going against India, but the captain Sourav Ganguly refused to be critical. "You've all seen it on TV," he said. "We understand that, and move forward."
Click to expand...

See if you can spot the relevant bit.
 
Sure, the Pakistan of the 90s was hella strong and achieved nothing close to what they should have. Ego's, infighting and certainly a fair bit of match fixing ruined that generation. But having said that on their day they could easily bring it to the greatest Aussie and Windies teams for sure.
 
Proactive_ said:
So what's your reasoning behind thinking that only Australia's opponents were copping all the wrong decisions and never Australia themselves? You mention Sydney 2008 but hilariously fail to mention the wrong decisions that went against Australia as well like the Ponting LBW in the same match which had one of the most clear inside edges in LBW history. That was as shocking a decision that any India copped. Stop with the victimist mentality already.





The replay is in the video. No way it's anywhere near outside the line. If I remember, there was no hawkeye then and the best that could be done was the grid lines they used in the line of the stumps. That's as plumb an LBW as you can get. You got to be seriously trolling if you think otherwise.



That's the point. Wrong decisions happened, on both sides. I don't know from where you've got hold of this little conspiracy theory that the umpires were always in the Aussies' pocket. That unit dominated teams away from home consistently and used to whitewash them for good measure. Not recognizing the domination that they exhibited is just a case of sour grapes tbh.
Click to expand...

There's no point. Tusker is convinced that some shadowy cabal of overseas umpires conspired together to create Australian dominance in that era and that Australia never suffered their share of wrong calls too. It's mind boggling but it's a mania he cannot see logic through.

Also, why are Indian fans assuming they were set to win Chennai day 5- from an Australian fan who attended all 5 days (yes, even the rainy day) of that test we felt we were well placed, Warne was bowling well, we had McGrath the fifth day master up our sleeve, 200+ still to defend and a fifth day pitch on our side. Odds even at worst, considering the hiding we'd just dished out in the first test and momentum in our favour.
 
wrongun said:
There's no point. Tusker is convinced that some shadowy cabal of overseas umpires conspired together to create Australian dominance in that era and that Australia never suffered their share of wrong calls too. It's mind boggling but it's a mania he cannot see logic through.
Click to expand...

before you decide to lecture/rant/rave why dont you actually show us the Australian "share" of wrong calls ... start with the 2004 Series

here is the summary: http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/142352.html

If the past is anything to go by you have nothing other than making sarcastic comments and jibes. Perhaps today will be different.
 
PAK in the 90s was a team of stars but below average performance wise.

They didn't live up to their potential at all.

IN ODIS

AUS
WI

~Massive Gap~


IND
PAK
 
kingusama92 said:
PAK in the 90s was a team of stars but below average performance wise.

They didn't live up to their potential at all.

IN ODIS

AUS
WI

~Massive Gap~


IND
PAK
Click to expand...

India beat the WI in 1983 WC (Twice)
India beat the Aussies in 2008 VB Series IN AUS (Yes I know it was missing key players but still a very very good side )
 
Tusker said:
before you decide to lecture/rant/rave why dont you actually show us the Australian "share" of wrong calls ... start with the 2004 Series

here is the summary: http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/142352.html

If the past is anything to go by you have nothing other than making sarcastic comments and jibes. Perhaps today will be different.
Click to expand...

No, I'll demonstrate an exact allegory of your argument.

The umpiring error shown below (according to your logic) proves that the entire WI series of dominance was orchestrated by home board umpires conspiring to raise the WI to greatness at the expense of their own teams (no logic or motive for this need by provided, in accordance with your own example). So yes, WI may have SEEMED to be one of the atg teams & dominate for 15 years, but really it was all up to the umpires.

Now, go show me the share of wrong calls vs the WI. Start with India tour of WI 82/83 please.

Craig McDermott clearly missing the ball & clipping the helmet- a single error which proves a vast conspiracy which negates the entire WI golden era- seen below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HezgwT8fBU
 
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