What are the "learns" for Pakistan in yet another bilateral series defeat?

[Hellion]

Since Jan, 2022, Pakistan have only won 2 T20I series - against Ireland and Zimbabwe - despite playing against the bench strength of most opponents.


What have been the "learns" for PCT in this series about their own bench strength and combinations ?


I'd go

1. High intent batters in Hasaan and Haris effective on flat tracks
2. Improved Rauf bowling slower(128-141) and more accurately
3. Utterly pathetic techniques against movement and bounce

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Rauf's improvement has been the most noticeable for mine.

 

[sugumarrising]

One thing is for sure rauf & Naseem has to be in the team at the moment, don't have any idea about Shaheen, haris is bowling nicely in this series, but for Naseem may be the upcoming odi series should be the decider, if you remove every fast bowler it will hit pakistan fast bowling very hard.

 

[Vikram1989]

Am not sure about rauf.he bowled really well in aus odi series and went for bonkers in ct. He is babar of bowling. Performs in bi laterals and misses out against strong sides in tournaments.

 

[Kroll]

Don't go back to Rizbar. Stick with this fresh new approach and fruit will bear.

 

[nish_mate]

SSA is no where near intl class, just coz he's a left armer Pakistani "fast" bowler, doesn't make him a "world" class bowler....

 

[IAJ]

Don't go back to Rizbar. Stick with this fresh new approach and fruit will bear.

Agree and even try additional new faces also

 

[ads101]

Agha’s batting better than expected. Hasan hit a really nice century and is now a good future prospect.

Nothing else really. Bowling overall has been bad this series and most of these bowlers are capable of better.

It’s be a mega disappointing series probably the worst for a while if not for that century. And because of that century by Hasan I don’t even feel that bad, it was a very good positive.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The whole team is learns

 

[Master Blaster]

Nothing to learns for Pak team playing continuously against B, C teams. There is not much motivation to learns against 2nd, 3rd string teams. Only 2 players, BabRi, are motivated to feast on such teams but they are unfortunately kicked out of the team.

 

[deltexas]

Since Jan, 2022, Pakistan have only won 2 T20I series - against Ireland and Zimbabwe - despite playing against the bench strength of most opponents.


What have been the "learns" for PCT in this series about their own bench strength and combinations ?


I'd go

1. High intent batters in Hasaan and Haris effective on flat tracks
2. Improved Rauf bowling slower(128-141) and more accurately
3. Utterly pathetic techniques against movement and bounce

There should be a readymade template after every Pak T20 series. Because it will be the same. Sometimes you wins, sometimes you learns !

 

[TheSultan]

Amazing how many Indians spend their time analysing pak bilateral series!

Back to the original point of this thread. What we have “learned” is: don’t let anyone gaslight you in to believing “there’s no one better”. Haris, Nawaz, Salman have shown me enough that there’s plenty there to work with. Even Samad and Irfan can be worked with.

Remove the two damaads. Enough is enough.

Bring in sufyan, Qasim please

 

[RyanRyan10]

They should have played Faheem Ashraf as an allrounder in these conditions

 

[guard]

Amazing how many Indians spend their time analysing pak bilateral series!

Back to the original point of this thread. What we have “learned” is: don’t let anyone gaslight you in to believing “there’s no one better”. Haris, Nawaz, Salman have shown me enough that there’s plenty there to work with. Even Samad and Irfan can be worked with.

Remove the two damaads. Enough is enough.

Bring in sufyan, Qasim please

theres more of them here than in their own back yard.

p.s. dont venture in their backyard, you wont like what they speak..

 

[guard]

The whole team is learns

Yes Saarrr

 

[Kianig89]

Pakistan team has become very different from the one including RizBar, full of attacking players who are dashers and hitters , with allrounder offering options like leg spin, left arm spin and a new wicket keeper who has all qualities of being world class, also a new captain who can mould his game according to situation.

The only issue is this team like the earlier team is also losing series.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Hasan Nawaz got a really impressive 100 but there is work to be done for him. He needs to technically improve, with better shot selection & application. Whereas M.Haris is already a better option than RizBar in T20I with his positive approach & long it may continue. Potentially for ODI's as well?

The Shadab experiment hasn't reaped rewards so far with the many ppers potentially calling for him being discarded which I actually echo. He doesn't seem to be clicking as a bowler in this team so far & needs work on his line & length which was the whole point of him going back to domestic.

Shaheen could do with dropping. His mind isn't in it right now. The fact he was discarded from the captaincy chat has hurt him personally.

The new approach is a positive step & a must. Agha Ali Salman continues to evolve as a player & potentially a captain.

This team needs a No.4, a proper batter. Irfan Khan Niazi is young & potentially could be the solution but right now needs to work on his weaknesses. Tayyab Tahir or Sahibzada Farhan could be tried.

Whether it's Aamer Jamal, Muhammad Shehzad or another pace bowling AR, Pakistan needs someone to support the pace bowlers. I felt Pakistan were light a pace bowler.

 

[Aami]

A few obvious ones ...

Shadab, S Afridi ... they're off colour.

In case of Shadab, he's been so bad for so long, I dont think he can bowl anyomre.

Batting wise, obviously in the right direction, all batters need to give themselves time, otherwise, before you know it, they'll be discarded as hacks/sloggers, never to.be seen again.

 

[cricfan432]

F

They should have played Faheem Ashraf as an allrounder in these conditions

aheem is better suited for odis and that too up the order since hes better player of bounce and good at playing at 100 Sr rather than expecting him to play at 140 SR

 

[DeadlyVenom]

1. Saim
2. Hassan
3. Fakhar
4.Agha
5. Irfan/Khushdil
6. Haris (wk)
7. Shadab ( depending if he can improve)
8.Abbas
9. Another spinner
10. Haris Rauf
11. Naseem/ another pacer

Give this group some time. It can come good.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Batting looks explosive though inexperienced.

Next T20 World Cup is in India and SL. So Pakistan needs better spinners.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

1. High intent batters in Hasaan and Haris effective on flat tracks

Bhai they are more like blind sloggers who can't succeed in international cricket with such a batting technique.

 

[Hellion]

Bhai they are more like blind sloggers who can't succeed in international cricket with such a batting technique.

They'll work on Eden Park type T20 tracks .

 

[charlie007]

Hypothetically speaking, will Dhoni make it to Pakistan T20 team as a wicket keeper batsman?

 

[Sachin fan]

One thing is for sure rauf & Naseem has to be in the team at the moment, don't have any idea about Shaheen, haris is bowling nicely in this series, but for Naseem may be the upcoming odi series should be the decider, if you remove every fast bowler it will hit pakistan fast bowling very hard.

Naseem averages 35 in t20s which is among the worst not only in pakistan, but all countries. Why do you need him in t20s?

 

[Sachin fan]

Amazing how many Indians spend their time analysing pak bilateral series!

Back to the original point of this thread. What we have “learned” is: don’t let anyone gaslight you in to believing “there’s no one better”. Haris, Nawaz, Salman have shown me enough that there’s plenty there to work with. Even Samad and Irfan can be worked with.

Remove the two damaads. Enough is enough.

Bring in sufyan, Qasim please

Werent you and other pakistani fans on here all over indian topics? Have some shame in your hypocrisy.

This is the only international series going on at the moment so problem will discuss. If you cry like a toddler, you will be called out.

 

[Hawkeye]

We have already done FAAARRRR better than our last NZ tour where we lost 4-1 with Rizwan and Babar.

The match we have won so far we won it convincingly and in a way that white ball cricket SHOULD be played.

These young hitters will win us matches on good pitches which is 99% of ICC tournaments and 90% of bilateral white ball series.

We are already a 100% improved side than RIZWAN/Babar era.

Nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Advaith]

Nothing to learns for Pak team playing continuously against B, C teams. There is not much motivation to learns against 2nd, 3rd string teams. Only 2 players, BabRi, are motivated to feast on such teams but they are unfortunately kicked out of the team.

As earlier poster said you had already watered that plant and it grew but is not so sweet, its time to plant newly and expect something better than past ..Rizwan and babar will certainly make a comeback but as a part of team and they should develop their hitting ability to again take centre stage..They should take this time out of squad to add required skills to modern t20 requirement, as per odi and test is concerned they have it in them to be part of it though they need to show some urgency in batting..

 

[Justcrazy]

Give them more chances , no point in moving around in a circle and bringing back same players again and again. Just let the new team grow.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Muqeem must play in all 3 formats ASAP. He's the future.

The batting has potential. Give these players 6 years like we have given Rizwan and Babar.

 

[TheSultan]

Werent you and other pakistani fans on here all over indian topics? Have some shame in your hypocrisy.

This is the only international series going on at the moment so problem will discuss. If you cry like a toddler, you will be called out.

Who are you?

 

[deltexas]

Amazing how many Indians spend their time analysing pak bilateral series!

Back to the original point of this thread. What we have “learned” is: don’t let anyone gaslight you in to believing “there’s no one better”. Haris, Nawaz, Salman have shown me enough that there’s plenty there to work with. Even Samad and Irfan can be worked with.

Remove the two damaads. Enough is enough.

Bring in sufyan, Qasim please

Still less than the number of Pak posters who are concerned about how IPL is inferior to PSL, how BCCI is killing cricket, how ICC fixes events for Ind, how Ind gets an unfair advantage whereas BCCI denies Pak the same etc.

So, Back to the original point of this thread. PCT will be in a "learn" mode for a long long term with the mediocre bunch of players they have.

 

[TheSultan]

Still less than the number of Pak posters who are concerned about how IPL is inferior to PSL, how BCCI is killing cricket, how ICC fixes events for Ind, how Ind gets an unfair advantage whereas BCCI denies Pak the same etc.

So, Back to the original point of this thread. PCT will be in a "learn" mode for a long long term with the mediocre bunch of players they have.

That’s a discussion about the game though, but why are Indian fans on a Pakistani forum on a thread about what Pakistan have “learned” in their last match. I mean that kind of stalking is a bit creepy

 

[moghul]

Not a bad move to try new players, you might hit a jack pot some day but these players particularly Hasan Nawaz ( despite his fluke century ) and Samad are club level cricketer and need to send back to improve at domestic level and they should be replaced by some new players. I thing Umair bin Yusuf now deserve a chance , he seems to gave a better technique among the new players.

 

[deltexas]

That’s a discussion about the game though, but why are Indian fans on a Pakistani forum on a thread about what Pakistan have “learned” in their last match. I mean that kind of stalking is a bit creepy

Its discussion as well right? Why the PCT never learns from its"cricket" defeats ? Creepy is the way how Pak posters keep believing BCCI is responsible for their pathetic performances. We are discussing cricketing performances on a cricketing forum, simple.

 

[TheSultan]

Its discussion as well right? Why the PCT never learns from its"cricket" defeats ? Creepy is the way how Pak posters keep believing BCCI is responsible for their pathetic performances. We are discussing cricketing performances on a cricketing forum, simple.

Well I certainly do not believe BCCI is responsible for our performances and I don’t think many are under that illusion.

But the big question is why are you so worried about how well or badly Pakistan do in a bilateral that is just a random series ? I mean carry on, I just find it a bit weird

 

[deltexas]

Well I certainly do not believe BCCI is responsible for our performances and I don’t think many are under that illusion.

But the big question is why are you so worried about how well or badly Pakistan do in a bilateral that is just a random series ? I mean carry on, I just find it a bit weird

Well its a Pak forum, so Pak team will be discussed I guess ! More than half the threads here are on Ind cricket team or BCCI or some variation of that .
So why are Pak fans concerned about Ind performances ? Everyone knows the reason and the historic baggage is one main reason, simple as that.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Continue with the same template, the players right now aren’t good enough but we will eventually get a few that come through who will be able to play according to the conditions.

Take it this way, the one game that did have batting conditions throughout the match, our batters held up pretty good. They are not good enough to survive in conditions where the ball moves quite a bit.

I am not at all disappointed. Was expecting this team to lose 5-0, as it’s a completely disjointed unit just coming together for this series.

We need to move away from Shadab though and Shaheen needs to be sent back to domestic cricket to regain his form.
Arafat Minhas, Mubashir Khan, Mehran Mumtaz and Sufiyan Muqeem NEED to start playing now.

We actually did ‘learn’ in this series.

 

[Hawkeye]

Only issues in the team that need to be sorted out:

-Shaheens bowling
-Naseems bowling
-Shadab - a completely useless cricketer
-Niazi and Khushdil — they both are duds against half decent pace and cannot hit pace at will.

This batting specially when Saim and Fakhar come back will win us most matches on any good wicket.

 

[Hellion]

Tulla batting and Tape ball bowling has its limits is a solid learn from this series.

Class will always prevail

 

[Prince of Dorne]

Nothing to learn. This is typical Pakistan that People are so proud of. One minute up, next several months down.

 

[DTrump]

92-1 (10.1 overs)
137-5 (13.1 overs)
204 (19.5 overs)
220-6 (20 overs)
131-2 (10 overs)

ER of 10+ over 5 matches is ridiculous.
conditions were not that flat.

Pakistan don't have the means to outbat top teams on a flat road. Their best bet is to get better bowlers.
abrar, sufiyan, haris is a decent core.
need 2 world class pacers and an all rounder.

It is not looking good really. The beatings will continue. Keep trying and get a stable coaching setup. Process is important.

Gotta keep patience for it will take years before it gets better. If it ever does

 

[baba ghazi]

1) hasan rauf bowling slowly which is welcome
2) Salman agha seems to have his place locked down which is a good sign for a young captain..can build a team around him
3)hasan nawaz can absh on flatter decks which is good..how he will face top quality batters at flat pitch is diff story
4) should persist with abrar and sufian..need to move on from pace is apce yaar approach..maybe also look for a left arm finger spinner if possible

 

[Nikhil_cric]

A reality check for Pakistan in terms of talent pool/bench strength. Playing at high strike rates is not just about intent without the requisite skill to do so.

Strike rates of some batters in this series

Samad - 113
Haris - 118
Khushdil - 102
Niazi - 116

And it's not like they were padding stats either. The intent was there but the ability simply wasn't.

It's a bit too early to remove Babar from the side permanently.

The bowling was predictably worse , Rauf apart. They can neither take wickets nor control the rate.

But the biggest issue is Shadab's decline and its impact on the team combination.

At the moment he's a tailender with the bat and a part timer with the ball.

A very sorry looking side

 

[imran1976]

learns is that we learnt nothing -- ours is a corrupt society and this reflects in every sphere of life.

 

[jnaveen1980]

A reality check for Pakistan in terms of talent pool/bench strength. Playing at high strike rates is not just about intent without the requisite skill to do so.

Strike rates of some batters in this series

Samad - 113
Haris - 118
Khushdil - 102
Niazi - 116

And it's not like they were padding stats either. The intent was there but the ability simply wasn't.

It's a bit too early to remove Babar from the side permanently.

The bowling was predictably worse , Rauf apart. They can neither take wickets nor control the rate.

But the biggest issue is Shadab's decline and its impact on the team combination.

At the moment he's a tailender with the bat and a part timer with the ball.

A very sorry looking side

Apart from Shahid Afridi pakistan never had a high strike rate batsman in their history. Even the celebrated Fakhar zaman also has a strike rate of only 132 after 92 matches. Yes he has higher ceiling. But he consumes a lot of dot balls which effectively nullifies his big hitting.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Apart from Shahid Afridi pakistan never had a high strike rate batsman in their history. Even the celebrated Fakhar zaman also has a strike rate of only 132 after 92 matches. Yes he has higher ceiling. But he consumes a lot of dot balls which effectively nullifies his big hitting.

Agreed. And that's why they should not try to revolutionise their batting by throwing random guys in who can't even cut mustard at PSL level ahead of someone like Babar.

They can phase out Rizwan and Shadab and play an extra batter instead of Shadab in the team and see where that takes them.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Agreed. And that's why they should not try to revolutionise their batting by throwing random guys in who can't even cut mustard at PSL level ahead of someone like Babar.

They can phase out Rizwan and Shadab and play an extra batter instead of Shadab in the team and see where that takes them.

To bat like this you need incredible hand eye coordination or ability to get into position and time the ball. These guys lack both. They need to fix these thigns at much lower level. On the job training will take a lot of time. Unlike ODIs where you can tuk tuk and take your time to score runs, T20 requires you to adapt quickly to the conditions.

 

[Master Blaster]

There is never defeats for Pak team in bilateral cricket.
It is either series victory or moral victory.

 

[Monday Morning]

Pakistan are now a minnow in all three formats of the game.

With Shadab and Shaheen in terminal decline, there isn't a half-decent T20 player in the country bar Saim Ayub. That is pathetic considering T20s are all this lot focuses on!

At this rate, Pakistan will be out of the top 10 cricketing nations by 2030.

 

[Xoib]

Pakistan are now a minnow in all three formats of the game.

With Shadab and Shaheen in terminal decline, there isn't a half-decent T20 player in the country bar Saim Ayub. That is pathetic considering T20s are all this lot focuses on!

At this rate, Pakistan will be out of the top 10 cricketing nations by 2030.

Yes it’s funny actually they focus so much on T 20 and yet their skill level is embarrassing in this format

 

[jamie smith fan]

Well another day another humiliation.Some people here were crying over the comeback of RIZBARand company, and that they are world beaters and would smash kiwis in the odis . But buttt they have been exposed like no other day.The young T20 side atleast managed to put up a fight against a Nz-B team but our veteran A team has been blanked left,right and center by a nz -z team consisting of rookies bar mitchell who is himself terribly out of team.

Well if u lose then u kinda say that u didnt perform,u had an off day,u dont have the skills to compete but this team is saying that they are LEARNING.

One thing they should be reminded of is that this is international cricket and not domestic cricket where u learn.Learning should be done in domestics and not internationals.

2nd thing is that these players have been part of squad for 5-11 years now and still they cant figure out how to play international cricket.The newzealand openers who were on debut today were playing like experienced players while ours with 80+ odis experience are still saying that they are learning.

Atleast if u want the team to learn then select players from U23 who can learn for 2-3 and then become international standard players and not egoistic players who dont actually want to learn or better their skills but just hide behind the narrative of learning.

My recommendation would be to kick Legwan,abd,imam parchi,tt,shadab,babar out of the team forever and bring in young -players with backing of domestic stats who actually have the desire to work hard and play for the badge, not personal stats.

Few players who can be developed in odis are:
Azan Awais
Maaz
Abdul Faseeh.
Mohsin Riaz
Rizwan Mehmood
Roohail Nazir
Sufyan
Shehzad
Arafat.

Note I am not saying that these players will set the stage on fire in international but if given ample chances and right guidance they can develop into world class players.

 

[ravisurya]

One take away form the series is how Babar Azam is class apart, a part of fab 5 as a lot of posters on this forum claim. He looks just so classy is his short stay of 3 balls.

 

[saimayubera]

Pakistan keeps continually learning, like a college student that does not graduate.

 

[salman24]

One take away form the series is how Babar Azam is class apart, a part of fab 5 as a lot of posters on this forum claim. He looks just so classy is his short stay of 3 balls.

So he scores almost 80 runs in the first game and sets up what would've been a win with any other team's middle order but we will focus on the 2nd game where he got out early like all the other batters. Nice.

 

[Mockingbird]

So he scores almost 80 runs in the first game and sets up what would've been a win with any other team's middle order but we will focus on the 2nd game where he got out early like all the other batters. Nice.

Are you guys really content with these soft meaningless runs? 50 odd here, 80 odd there - what about decisively finishing a match?

 

[pakistani pride]

So he scores almost 80 runs in the first game and sets up what would've been a win with any other team's middle order but we will focus on the 2nd game where he got out early like all the other batters. Nice.

Chasing a score well over 300 and he scores below 100 SR. When the time came to catch up - RRR was high, like always he got out.

And there was no middle order. You cant call those players middle order players.

 

[Kroll]

We've learned that Pakistan cricket is finished. Need to pack it up and go home for good.

 

[nish_mate]

Talent pipeline is producing Tailunt....

 

[CleverSir]

We learned that currently there is no talent in the team.

Babar, Rizwan, and most of fast bowling group needs to go. If we’re gonna lose, start fresh.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I still wonder how the heck this bowling unit clicked in the Australia ODI series. I know Australia was doing a bit of experiment. Still how the heck they failed against this unit which cannot be disciplined for more than few balls at a stretch

 

[nish_mate]

I still wonder how the heck this bowling unit clicked in the Australia ODI series. I know Australia was doing a bit of experiment. Still how the heck they failed against this unit which cannot be disciplined for more than few balls at a stretch

Qudrat ka Nizaam

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Qudrat ka Nizaam

No get dodgy razakers to stop supporting you. They are bad omen..

 

[Xoib]

I still wonder how the heck this bowling unit clicked in the Australia ODI series. I know Australia was doing a bit of experiment. Still how the heck they failed against this unit which cannot be disciplined for more than few balls at a stretch

They have decent skills did quite well in South Africa also who were playing their Main team but are highly inconsistent mostly because their fitness is not int standard and they don’t bowl enough overs as they don’t play enough 4-5 day cricket hence can go off the boil quite often and lose bowling disciplines

 

[RyanRyan10]

So he scores almost 80 runs in the first game and sets up what would've been a win with any other team's middle order but we will focus on the 2nd game where he got out early like all the other batters. Nice.

Killed the momentum with his slow start and ended up at a strike rate (94) which was much lower than what was required (115).

 

[DeadlyVenom]

So he scores almost 80 runs in the first game and sets up what would've been a win with any other team's middle order but we will focus on the 2nd game where he got out early like all the other batters. Nice.

How many times will he "set up" a win for someone else? We want and need him to win the game himself like other elite batsmen do.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Kamran Akmal speaking on his YouTube channel:

“The bowling is not up to par as it should have been. If our fast bowlers don't perform well on such pitches, then where will they? In Asia, when they get hit, they blame the pitches, saying there's nothing left for the bowlers. But where there are bowling-friendly conditions, they fail to capitalize. What better golden chance could Pakistan have to win this series since 2011?”

“We have been saying that Pakistan needs all-rounders like Faheem Ashraf, who, despite some flaws, managed to restore some respect to Pakistan’s total. Without his contributions, the team would have been bowled out for 70 or 80 runs. Naseem Shah replaced Haris Rauf as a concussion sub but we don’t need his 50 runs, we need wickets from him.”

"It is shameful. The PCB chairman should think that if he can't control, he should resign and leave. For Pakistan cricket to rise again, merit must prevail. Otherwise, the situation will deteriorate to a point where nobody respects Pakistan cricket, and sponsorship will disappear.”

 

[ravisurya]

So he scores almost 80 runs in the first game and sets up what would've been a win with any other team's middle order but we will focus on the 2nd game where he got out early like all the other batters. Nice.

Maybe you didn't read my post, he us a class apart from the rest of the batsmen Maybe bar the T20 bradman. What an amazing talent.

 

[baba ghazi]

new palyers are mostly not ready and may require long rope..muhammad haris is mostly lun..
noticable improvement in harris rauf and salman agha

 

[TheSultan]

Team is full of “learns”