What are your expectations from Mickey Arthur as Pakistan Team Director?

[abughio]

I wanted to create a thread for discussion, I, so wanted to write my heart out. And then, I read someone's message to whom I don't rate at all as he damaged Pak cricket a lot. Now, I will correct myself and write Onfield Pak cricket was ruined by this guy. Do read this:

Misbah ul Haq said: "It's a slap on our cricket system that we are not able to find a high-profile full-time coach. It's a shame that the best ones do not want to come and we insist on having someone who is looking at Pakistan as a second option. I blame our own system, which is vulnerable enough with so many weak lines for anyone to exploit it. We are to be blamed ourselves that we have disrespected and discredited our own people to make a bad image. PCB is always ready to back foreign coaches but never supports the local ones. They are fond of having overseas coaches because they think locals can easily be politicized and are not capable, but do we know it's the PCB bureaucracy who politicized the structure? They throw the local ones under the bus when they come under pressure and there has never been accountability of the bureaucracy in PCB."

Now, the purpose of this thread, when we give someone favors we expect the results more than the usual. Like, if a scientific scholar is given the levy of working from home, then, the concerned boss will require results from him more than the ones coming to the office. That's the general phenomena.

Will Mickey be judged like that, should we expect instant results because he has got whatever he has asked for. And Pakistan's one of the most financially stable institution was like. "Ji Huzoor Ji Huzoor Ji Huzoor. Or Kuch.."

What expectations do you have from Mickey. Is he going to find us another Babar. I see him rating Haider Ali. Will Haider's fortune change dramatically. Will underperforming Faheem be overnight sensation.

Open to disussion

 

[Savak]

Mickey will make things more professional when it comes to running the dressing room, training sessions and will have a no nonsense attitude towards fitness.

 

[Mamoon]

Mickey did not find Babar. He was lucky to find himself at the right place at the right time to capitalize on his emergence.

He played zero role in his development. People who follow Pakistan cricket closely knew about Babar since 2008.

Babar was already part of the ODI team before Mickey arrived and it was Waqar who promoted him up the order in the first place.

 

[Concerned]

Misbah ul Haq said: "It's a slap on our cricket system that we are not able to find a high-profile full-time coach.

Exactly what I thought when Misbah was made coach.

 

[shaz619]

Misbah was on the panel which fired Mickey, then he got hired and now he has the audacity to complain about the system, does he realise he is having a go at himself

 

[Rana]

First and foremost, to call the bluff on the theories and philosophies some of these players have. Players who do what’s best for them and not what’s best for the team/country

Fakhar Zaman is a Mickey Arthur opener. Mickey Arthur made the Fakhar Zaman brand. How dare Misbah and Babar destroy our best white ball opener of the modern era and turn him into a number 3 whilst Babar the coward opens with Rizwan!?

 

[Savak]

Mickey did not find Babar. He was lucky to find himself at the right place at the right time to capitalize on his emergence.

He played zero role in his development. People who follow Pakistan cricket closely knew about Babar since 2008.

Babar was already part of the ODI team before Mickey arrived and it was Waqar who promoted him up the order in the first place.

Babar started to blossom under Mickey Arthur's reign tho. He was frequently benched, dropped or shuffled in the batting order before that.

 

[abughio]

Mickey did not find Babar. He was lucky to find himself at the right place at the right time to capitalize on his emergence.

He played zero role in his development. People who follow Pakistan cricket closely knew about Babar since 2008.

Babar was already part of the ODI team before Mickey arrived and it was Waqar who promoted him up the order in the first place.

BABAR was spotted long before Mickey came. "YES"

But He is what He is today because of Mickey. Specially Babar the test cricketer.
Before that Babar was treated like any other young cricketer is.

 

[abughio]

Mickey will make things more professional when it comes to running the dressing room, training sessions and will have a no nonsense attitude towards fitness.

I doubt it.. Lets see. I wish he do that. I wish, if he can, he develop the system/institution/coaches not the individuals this time around

 

[abughio]

Misbah ul Haq said: "It's a slap on our cricket system that we are not able to find a high-profile full-time coach.

Exactly what I thought when Misbah was made coach.

Agree on that. SYSTEM

 

[Markhor]

I honestly have no idea what to expect - we've never seen an arrangement like this in world cricket.

I'm hoping with Rehan ul-Haq there'll be a greater focus on data driven strategies not qudrat ka nizam.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think we may see the return of Shadab and Faheem Ashraf in the test squads.

Hopefully if Mickey has an influence on the pitches we will see a fast bowling centric side and attacking strategys.

No chance of players like Sharjeel and Azam Khan in the side at all.

I'm intrigued as to what the online coach will do about the bench vice captain in ODIs.

 

[Plumb]

No Expectations from anyone... We can compete in any ICC event and make our way to playoffs that would be more than enough.

We have no organization or setup of cricket (for name sake there is but not functional) fans need to be realistic with their expectations... a quick 50, a good 100 by captain or top order, thats all we are capable of and should enjoy as pak cricket fans.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

I believe that we’ll see much clearer team approach and strategy. I also expect Aamir and possibly Sharjeel to make a comeback to the squad.

I do believe that we’ll play with more fire, because this coaching staff, as unorthodox as it is, will challenge the boys. They’re going to instill these lads to hate defeat, which we don’t see enough of currently.

InshAllah I pray that Haider finally starts to progress at Derbyshire. If that happens, then that’s great for Pakistan Cricket.

I’m not sure how much individual players will improve, whilst Mickey is away. True development can only be achieved if the coach is approachable at all times. I’m not sure if Grant Bradburn has the same development skills as a coach.

So, whilst I’m positive, I think we’ll truly only see substantive change by Feb of next year.

 

[SamNJ]

Finals in world cup
Avoid whitewash in Aus

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I honestly have no idea what to expect - we've never seen an arrangement like this in world cricket.

I'm hoping with Rehan ul-Haq there'll be a greater focus on data driven strategies not qudrat ka nizam.

Pakistan's strategy is already heavily data driven. You have access to the Cricviz engine until sometime in 2024.

The problem is that it is most effective in T20's as a format and PAK has made semis and final of the last T20 World Cups.

You need better personnel for the longer formats especially Tests.

Pakistan need someone like Mickey in the High Performance Centre maybe. That would be making best use of Mickey's talents and also would help with Pakistam's shortcomings.

 

[Mamoon]

Babar started to blossom under Mickey Arthur's reign tho. He was frequently benched, dropped or shuffled in the batting order before that.

BABAR was spotted long before Mickey came. "YES"

But He is what He is today because of Mickey. Specially Babar the test cricketer.
Before that Babar was treated like any other young cricketer is.

That is pure revisionism.

21 year old Babar averaged 47 in ODIs before Mickey arrived. Waqar opened with him and also played him at 4 because he was good.

His performance enhanced during the Mickey era (2016-2019) not because of Mickey but because it was part of his natural progression.

He became better with more experience and he didn’t have attitude issues like Umar Akmal and Shehzad.

Mickey simply found himself at the right place at the right time. He became coach at the same time as Pakistan’s best batsman of the last two decades emerged.

Babar would have been Babar with or without Mickey.

Mickey apologists claim he was good at played development. There is absolutely no evidence that the players improved on his watch because the results did not.

Inzamam brought a lot of young players to the setup but Mickey failed to develop them.

He lost 32 of his last 40 ODIs and lost back to back Test series in the UAE. That was an outcome of his player development after three years with the team.

Also, it is hilarious how people try to give credit to Mickey for Babar’s success when the actual batting coach during that period was Grant Flower.

The reality is that neither Mickey nor Flower had any significant role in Babar’s rise and neither of them are any good. Their track record proves it.

 

[Farah Sohail]

Now Geo is reporting that Yasir Arafat will be bowling coach of Pak team and he will also be assistant coaxh to Mickey Arrhur and will be head of coaching staff In Mickey’s absence..

What happened to Grant Bradburn then? Is he not coming then?

 

[JattMaula]

At least final of this ODI World cup and being competitive in next WTC.

 

[Markhor]

That is pure revisionism.

21 year old Babar averaged 47 in ODIs before Mickey arrived. Waqar opened with him and also played him at 4 because he was good.

His performance enhanced during the Mickey era (2016-2019) not because of Mickey but because it was part of his natural progression.

He became better with more experience and he didn’t have attitude issues like Umar Akmal and Shehzad.

Mickey simply found himself at the right place at the right time. He became coach at the same time as Pakistan’s best batsman of the last two decades emerged.

Babar would have been Babar with or without Mickey.

Mickey apologists claim he was good at played development. There is absolutely no evidence that the players improved on his watch because the results did not.

Inzamam brought a lot of young players to the setup but Mickey failed to develop them.

He lost 32 of his last 40 ODIs and lost back to back Test series in the UAE. That was an outcome of his player development after three years with the team.

Also, it is hilarious how people try to give credit to Mickey for Babar’s success when the actual batting coach during that period was Grant Flower.

The reality is that neither Mickey nor Flower had any significant role in Babar’s rise and neither of them are any good. Their track record proves it.

Babar did very little in Test cricket for the first couple of years. The trigger-happy Pakistani coaches would've dropped him, but Mickey persisted with him. Babar himself has said he owes Mickey big time for that.

 

[Mamoon]

Babar did very little in Test cricket for the first couple of years. The trigger-happy Pakistani coaches would've dropped him, but Mickey persisted with him. Babar himself has said he owes Mickey big time for that.

It is an assumption that some other coach would have dropped Babar. It is not backed by anything.

There are plenty of examples of players getting a long rope in one format or all formats in spite of not performing, either because of the perception that they are talented and will come good or because of some other factors.

For example, a garbage player like Masood not only keeps getting picked but is also entrusted with leadership positions. Similarly, Naseem keeps getting selected in Tests in spite of his pathetic record in the format.

Babar’s reputation as a highly talented batsman plus his performances in the shorter formats would have ensured that he would have been a permanent member of the team post Younis-Misbah irrespective of who the coach was.

What Babar says is not relevant because he is obviously not going to come out and say that Mickey did nothing for him. You can ask Babar the same question about any other coach that he has played under and he would say the same.

Mickey apologists are too eager to credit him for Babar’s success but would not utter a word for Flower who was the actual batting coach.

If Mickey was good at player development, Pakistan would not have produced minnow-like results in the last 12 months of his tenure.

 

[zarak]

Just get basic tactics and selections right. I feel we are tactically the worst team. Always reactive and one step behind.

 

[Saj]

I'm intrigued as to how this will work.

Mickey it seems may have people working under him and they will be the ones doing the face to face coaching for the majority of the time.

I wonder how the players will react to this way of coaching.

 

[Farah Sohail]

I'm intrigued as to how this will work.

Mickey it seems may have people working under him and they will be the ones doing the face to face coaching for the majority of the time.

I wonder how the players will react to this way of coaching.

Do you have any idea…who will be the assistant coach for Pakistan team?

 

[Saj]

Do you have any idea…who will be the assistant coach for Pakistan team?

It seems that Grant Bradburn is the first choice - let's see if a deal can be agreed with him.

 

[Farah Sohail]

It seems that Grant Bradburn is the first choice - let's see if a deal can be agreed with him.

What are the other choices..?
Is Yasir Arafat also in contention…for assistant coach..along with bowling coach? Is he being considered for dual role?
Bradburn is definitely a much better choice than Yasir Arafat, for assistant coach role..to assume role of head coach in Mickey’s absence

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Personally, I don’t hate the idea of Yasir Arafat as bowling coach. He’s been coaching at Surrey and, to my knowledge, is the only mainstream Pakistani coach with a Level 4 ECB qualification.

Sometimes we think of somebody who was a great player will be a great coach. But coaching is all about communication and patience. And if Yasir is good at that, then it’ll really help the younger bowlers like Dahani and Wasim.

 

[abughio]

It is an assumption that some other coach would have dropped Babar. It is not backed by anything.

There are plenty of examples of players getting a long rope in one format or all formats in spite of not performing, either because of the perception that they are talented and will come good or because of some other factors.

For example, a garbage player like Masood not only keeps getting picked but is also entrusted with leadership positions. Similarly, Naseem keeps getting selected in Tests in spite of his pathetic record in the format.

Babar’s reputation as a highly talented batsman plus his performances in the shorter formats would have ensured that he would have been a permanent member of the team post Younis-Misbah irrespective of who the coach was.

What Babar says is not relevant because he is obviously not going to come out and say that Mickey did nothing for him. You can ask Babar the same question about any other coach that he has played under and he would say the same.

Mickey apologists are too eager to credit him for Babar’s success but would not utter a word for Flower who was the actual batting coach.

If Mickey was good at player development, Pakistan would not have produced minnow-like results in the last 12 months of his tenure.

Agree on that Babar may or may not have blossomed in the presence of any other coach. But if you can recall the kind of backing he had and the support he used to have from him during press conferences with Desi journalists.

Also, to support your argument, if Mickey would have been good then he would have get the results from Srilankan team as well.

Now, if I argue against it then, we can see the players he brought for them, like Kusal Mendis are very good players and also bringing good results for them.

 

[abughio]

It seems that Grant Bradburn is the first choice - let's see if a deal can be agreed with him.

For me, I believe Pak seriously need good tacticians, who have believe in their tactics as well. Like Newzealand, usually play more tactically like they don't play their best 11 players, rather they play best 11 according to pitch or match ups.

So, how do you rate Grant bradburn generally and in this regard as well.

 

[Savak]

I'm intrigued as to how this will work.

Mickey it seems may have people working under him and they will be the ones doing the face to face coaching for the majority of the time.

I wonder how the players will react to this way of coaching.

A few companies have foreign located CEO's managing their organizations remotely and they have a delegated management team whom they have appointed to run day to day things and report to them.

I know quite a few family businesses where the founder/CEO is enjoying their life long work at home and their management staff is running the business day to day affairs and they report to them.

My wife's grandfather has established a group of diverse companies/businesses spread over the country, he is now 80 plus years old, retired and enjoying his remaining years at home with his grand kids. But he still demands a monthly report, account of all the businesses every month from his son who is running all the businesses now.

I see no reason why this arrangement with Mickey Arthur will not work. Its a better option than relying on the Kudrat Ka Nizam present with the team Saqlain Mushtaq.

 

[abughio]

A few companies have foreign located CEO's managing their organizations remotely and they have a delegated management team whom they have appointed to run day to day things and report to them.

I know quite a few family businesses where the founder/CEO is enjoying their life long work at home and their management staff is running the business day to day affairs and they report to them.

My wife's grandfather has established a group of diverse companies/businesses spread over the country, he is now 80 plus years old, retired and enjoying his remaining years at home with his grand kids. But he still demands a monthly report, account of all the businesses every month from his son who is running all the businesses now.

I see no reason why this arrangement with Mickey Arthur will not work. Its a better option than relying on the Kudrat Ka Nizam present with the team Saqlain Mushtaq.

Because your father-in-law is a business man and mickey is coach for physical sports.

Thing is he may be successful due to good team and tactical decisions but remember we are playing a physical sports, where coach should be in nets and sense the performance and form of the player in nets aka Mohammad Haris in this world cup or Fakhar Zaman in CT 2017/

 

[SentOff]

It seems a little crazy that a guy who is only a coach for a County Club is the Director of cricket for our national team. And the Director of cricket is his side-gig.

 

[Shafi]

Can Someone please tell me how come SL, BD, AFG teams are capable to select high profile coaches where we can't?

 

[topspin]

Can Someone please tell me how come SL, BD, AFG teams are capable to select high profile coaches where we can't?

It's primarily because PCB pays the least. But also because the job security and geopolitical situation in Pakistan is far worse so this makes the job even less attractive.

 

[Shafi]

It's primarily because PCB pays the least. But also because the job security and geopolitical situation in Pakistan is far worse so this makes the job even less attractive.

Didn't know PCB is that poor. So we are on par of Afg, WI and Zim boards.

So IND, AUS and ENG top 3 rich board
NZ, SA, BD, SL are average board
PAK, WI and AFG are lower tier board.