What does English mean?

[gazza619]

I am not talking about the language.

A while ago I had this very heated debate at work with a jewish colleague who said he is English. He was born in the UK but his parents or grand parents originated from Poland. He considers Israel as his Holy Land of course as he has friends and family living there as well. Now my question to him was how can he be English? I am someone who migrated to England so may be confused about the concept. I always thought that English is a race (of White people). May be I am wrong?

My children were born in England so are they English? I thought they are British?

I also asked my Jewish colleague that if there was war between England and Israel who would he support? To which he felt very offended and said I am being anti semitic. He would clearly not support England, so how can he be English?

Well I always had this question in mind and am still not fully convinced that anybody born in England is English. What do guys think?

 

[Yossarian]

Depends how far you go back in history, and what percentage of 'English' DNA makes you 'English'.
Both Parents?
Only one Parent?
Only one Grandparent?
Only one Great-Grandparent? .....

Genetic study reveals 30% of white British DNA has German ancestry

Analysis over 20 years reveals heavy Anglo-Saxon influence, with French and Danish DNA coming from earlier migrations than the Normans or Vikings


The Romans, Vikings and Normans may have ruled or invaded the British for hundreds of years, but they left barely a trace on our DNA, the first detailed study of the genetics of British people has revealed.

The analysis shows that the Anglo-Saxons were the only conquering force, around 400-500 AD, to substantially alter the country’s genetic makeup, with most white British people now owing almost 30% of their DNA to the ancestors of modern-day Germans.

People living in southern and central England today typically share about 40% of their DNA with the French, 11% with the Danes and 9% with the Belgians, the study of more than 2,000 people found. The French contribution was not linked to the Norman invasion of 1066, however, but a previously unknown wave of migration to Britain some time after then end of the last Ice Age nearly 10,000 years ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...-30-percent-white-british-dna-german-ancestry

With Americans, you are 'American' if you are a U.S. citizen, regardless of where you were born. The only restriction is that you cannot be President unless you were born as an American (which some say means being born on American soil, whilst others say at least one parent was already an American citizen when the person was born, regardless of whether or not they were born on American soil).

So unless you are of the view that to be 'English' you have to have some 'English' DNA going back thousands of years, even before the Anglo-Saxons, then I will go with a variation of the American definition. ie Born in England to Parents where at least one parent was already a British citizen.

 

[Yossarian]

^^^ Just to add:
All the black players who have played for England at cricket or football, by definition, were 'English'.

 

[enkidu_]

English is an ethnic group, and Jew is an ethnic group, you can't be both unless you're mixed.

 

[TM Riddle]

English is an ethnic group, and Jew is an ethnic group, you can't be both unless you're mixed.

This.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It doesn't have to be ethnicity or language but could be referring to location.


Imo its better to label yourself as British if you're from the UK. So British Jew but he may think he's Israeli which he might be but thats and absurd definition based on land theft.

 

[Devilsadvokat]

In my day simple the indigenous or natives of this country were the only ones deemed to be English (Lol full English) everyone born here to non natives or naturalized was British. You had to have British passport.

Since then time has allowed many English (confused further coz of Scor/Welsh/etc) people to say that those people who previously were called British as English. This might be because they want to display or feel even liberal and want to display it to those of a different skin colour, some people believe it or not are (skin)colourblind.

Anyways all the grouping of race are social constructs, none of them are scientific, perhaps the people of Andamans, stone age people like Eskimos, Aborigines, Maori, Native American etc but the rest are all divided based on social constructs, in fact, I would say that it would be easy to argue for Muslims to be considered a race I did so ten years with logic, I am sure I could do it again.

 

[gazza619]

English is an ethnic group, and Jew is an ethnic group, you can't be both unless you're mixed.

This.

But when you fill in a form and there is an ethnicity section, they dont list Jew or English as options? At least I havent seen it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

But when you fill in a form and there is an ethnicity section, they dont list Jew or English as options? At least I havent seen it.

Jewish is really a religious reference, there are black Jews too. It would ruin their research.

 

[gazza619]

In my day simple the indigenous or natives of this country were the only ones deemed to be English (Lol full English) everyone born here to non natives or naturalized was British. You had to have British passport.

Since then time has allowed many English (confused further coz of Scor/Welsh/etc) people to say that those people who previously were called British as English. This might be because they want to display or feel even liberal and want to display it to those of a different skin colour, some people believe it or not are (skin)colourblind.

Anyways all the grouping of race are social constructs, none of them are scientific, perhaps the people of Andamans, stone age people like Eskimos, Aborigines, Maori, Native American etc but the rest are all divided based on social constructs, in fact, I would say that it would be easy to argue for Muslims to be considered a race I did so ten years with logic, I am sure I could do it again.

So you are saying that the definition of being English has changed with times?

But lets say if an English (White) couple moved to France and their child is born there, would they call their child French? (i think not)

 

[Devilsadvokat]

would they call their child French? (i think not)

Is that a boy name or a girl name? I guess it or could be a unisex name.

That is a joke, I will answer later, I have to sleep.

 

[Slog]

David Beckham

 

[Gilly]

English to me means someone who whinges a lot, turns red in the sun, drinks warm beer and cant take a joke.

 

[Robert]

I am not talking about the language.

A while ago I had this very heated debate at work with a jewish colleague who said he is English.

My children were born in England so are they English? I thought they are British?

Well I always had this question in mind and am still not fully convinced that anybody born in England is English. What do guys think?

England is one of the kingdoms of the UK. I was born in England but din’t consider myself ethnically or politically English, more of an Anglo-Celtic Briton.

 

[CricketCartoons]

England is one of the kingdoms of the UK. I was born in England but din’t consider myself ethnically or politically English, more of an Anglo-Celtic Briton.

Oh, you are not proper English. I thought you were the only true Englishman on PP.

 

[Devilsadvokat]

English to me means someone who whinges a lot, turns red in the sun, drinks warm beer and cant take a joke.

The moaning stems from the weather, I am sure there are days where all four seasons are on display. The English it seems cannot live with the same weather for five days. I don't think they would moan as much if day. Heat in Pakistan can take two months to build up, in England one is lucky if it lasts four or five days.

Even they admit that only mad dogs and Englishman go out in the midday sun, that's self-deprecation which shows high level of intelligence.

Drink warm beer? On a par with iced tea maybe, who cares they have us Sir Isaac Newton and Charles Darwin.

And you think the Germans can?