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What does it say about the quality of batting when Pakistan start every innings at 25/2 and 40/3?

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Babar_Azam_fan

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How can a team expect to win if they start almost every innings at 25/2 and 38/3

These are the fall of wickets (recent series)

ENG
43/2, 139/3
33/2, 48/3

78/2, 102/3

11/2, 24/3
88/2, 109/3


NZ
39/2, 43/3
0/2, 37/3

66/2, 70/3
17/2, 46/3


SA
15/2, 26/3
22/2, 80/3

21/2, 22/3


Since the ENG tour (12 innings)
This is Pak score (on an average)
36/2
60/3


Since the NZ tour (7 innings)
This is Pak score (on an average)
25/2
40/3
 
Last edited:
Its mad fun from the get go, no? why wait for the 5th day or the last session, make it a bloody drama from the get go... pump the adrenaline...
 
It feels as if we have been looking for consistent openers for the last 10+ years. When will we finally find one?
 
It’s not just the top order, it creates unnecessary pressure even on the middle and the lower order. Also creates a panic in the whole dressing room. Nor does it help the bowlers to bowl freely because they don’t have much to bowl with.

Bowling has been awful for quite some time now, and the top order is no different.

Pakistan is somehow saving its face due to the runs from Azhar, Babar, Fawad, Rizwan, Faheem and Shadab
 
Ridiculous!. Happens once but to do it again in the next test is utterly brainless. They're only one wicket away when three down for a sub-100 score at home!.
 
There's no talent left in the country.

That's what it says.

Why don't you just accept it? And why are people surprised to see this?

It's not happening from just 5 or 6 years.

It's been happening for 15 to 20 odd years.

No good opener after Saeed Anwar.

We can play what we have.
 
Exactly hit the nail on the head...

There is no talent on in the country what so ever just hacks. Even the ones who have performed in my opinion will fail at international level. Fawad has been churning the runs in domestic over ten years and finally got his reward after so many injustices to him.
 
It means openers/ top order bats are not good enough. The difference in 25/2 and 95/2 is bigger than what the number suggests. In one scenario, you are set for 350+ score and in other, you can be bowled out under 220.
 
Can this be a temporary fix?

Azhar (He’s facing the new ball more often than not, anyway)
???
Saud
Babar *
 
Lol that's always been the norm ever since I've been watching Pakistani cricket ~ 15 years.
 
Hawkeye said:
There's no talent left in the country.

That's what it says.

Why don't you just accept it? And why are people surprised to see this?

It's not happening from just 5 or 6 years.

It's been happening for 15 to 20 odd years.

No good opener after Saeed Anwar.

We can play what we have.
Click to expand...

I think that is a defeatist attitude. Even if there is no obvious candidate, why not experiment? I can think of former middle order players who can handle pace bowlers better than some of the specialist openers we have currently.

Kamran Akmal? Umar Akmal? Sarfaraz? Umar Amin? These are all players who have been described as bright young talents and who have been let downs for some reason or another. But I reckon all of them would jump at the chance to open if it got them back in the side.

These aren't even my first choice, there are probably other openers who are waiting for a chance. Even if their stats aren't great, maybe they handle pace better? The point is, when a batsman fails, all you need to do is move onto the next one. There's always another option, why not try it instead of putting the gun in your mouth and blowing the trigger?
 
Maybe think out of the box and convert a middle order batsmen into an opener saud shakeel?

there is option of making rizwan play purely as an opening batsmen and letting sarfraz or rohail play lower down as wicketkeeping batsmen .
 
Might as well open with Fawad Alam. By the way he scored 168 as a test opener on debut.
 
Need to go with youth now, these ancient relics as openers won't do us any good.

I'd rather give a chance to Abdullah and Haider to open the innings and learn, and develop, rather than have Abid Ali there.

This will be Abid's game in test cricket, and on current form, he should be dropped from the ODI team too.
 
Tuned in at around 11:20 AM and both openers were in the dressing room. So predictable.
 
gazza619 said:
Might as well open with Fawad Alam. By the way he scored 168 as a test opener on debut.
Click to expand...

No leave him at 5, it’s his optimum position. If you aren’t making runs as an opener it’s your fault, it’s not Fawad’s or Azhar’s job to come up the order.
 
This is what happens when senior batsmen are always looking to protect their own interests and positions.

Pak were virtually 2 down under Inzimam as well before the innings would begin. Players like YK, Moyo ad Inzi just wanted the 'shine' of the new ball gone so that they could camp in and score big runs. The job of the openers was to just last 10 overs.

Saud Shakeel and Kamran Ghulam can bat in the middle, but Babar and Azhar will never go to open the innings instead.
 
Middle order batsman who are successful in domestic and have a number of years behind them. We should not be throwing in youth to fail. The mental demands of test cricket are just as demanding.
 
pak need to just go with at least one agg opener, its obvious they dont have the technique to survive so just need someone who can get a lucky 100 every now and again and average in 30s.

sharjeel, haider ali, agha salman, hussain talat, etc, type of batsmen, partnered with azhar ali.
 
ElRaja said:
pak need to just go with at least one agg opener, its obvious they dont have the technique to survive so just need someone who can get a lucky 100 every now and again and average in 30s.

sharjeel, haider ali, agha salman, hussain talat, etc, type of batsmen, partnered with azhar ali.
Click to expand...

its definetly worth a experiment,
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
The point is, when a batsman fails, all you need to do is move onto the next one. There's always another option, why not try it instead of putting the gun in your mouth and blowing the trigger?
Click to expand...

This approach has bore no fruit with our bowlers and probably contributed to making the idea of Pakistan being a "fast bowling factory" into the laughing stock it is today.

But bowling aside we could churn through the entire domestic roster but ultimately we won't find anything because there's nothing to find. We have no good batsmen coming through which is why we remain reliant on 35 year+ players like Azhar, Fawad and Hafeez. The places are available but the only performers are guys who certified TTF's like Khurram and Shan and we've tried those already. So all we could do is continue the cycle again and give Shan Masood another go on the merry go round.
 
hitthestump said:
This approach has bore no fruit with our bowlers and probably contributed to making the idea of Pakistan being a "fast bowling factory" into the laughing stock it is today.

But bowling aside we could churn through the entire domestic roster but ultimately we won't find anything because there's nothing to find. We have no good batsmen coming through which is why we remain reliant on 35 year+ players like Azhar, Fawad and Hafeez. The places are available but the only performers are guys who certified TTF's like Khurram and Shan and we've tried those already. So all we could do is continue the cycle again and give Shan Masood another go on the merry go round.
Click to expand...

Well I mentioned quite a few middle order batsmen who could be given a shot at opening. If you don't have good specialist openers must be worth trying some decent strokeplayers as ElRaja has already mentioned.

You mentioned bowlers, but there are still plenty of bowlers who have been ignored like this Tabish guy. Maybe they are all useless, but when one option fails, there really isn't much else to do but try someone else. Some players take to international cricket better than others, it's not always about stats. Mentality is a big thing at the top level.
 
When your opening options are Butt, Abid, Imam and Shan what do you expect. All technically poor, in some cases mentally weak.

Pakistan maybe better off trying to find two decent domestic middle order batsmen and turning them into test openers some how.
 
The middle order batsmen are usually in while the ball is new anyway when you have openers who can't get past single figure scores.
 
That we have an unstable top order.

/thread.

Always said from day 1 abid Ali isn’t good enough at this level esp not at his age which may be padded.

Domestic cricket nerds still tried to convince me otherwise but now it’s blatantly clear.
 
Time to look at shakeel ghulam etc Not ideal but as weve seen in the past a good batsman is a good batsman whether opening or batting lower down the order
 
Pakistan's last 13 first wicket partnerships in Test cricket:

21, 22, 5, 3, 4, 0, 28, 49, 6, 6, 6, 36, 2

8 out of the 13 opening stands resulted in less than 10 runs.
 
Saj said:
Pakistan's last 13 first wicket partnerships in Test cricket:

21, 22, 5, 3, 4, 0, 28, 49, 6, 6, 6, 36, 2

8 out of the 13 opening stands resulted in less than 10 runs.
Click to expand...

8 out of 13, less than 7 to be precise. That shows that whenever Pakistan starts its innings, there’s a 61.5% chance Pakistan will lose its first wicket before 7.

And just 2 out of 13, greater than 28. That shows that whenever Pakistan starts its innings, there’s an 85% chance Pakistan will lose its first wicket before 29.
If we consider in terms of overs, Azhar is facing the new ball, less than ten overs old (assuming Pakistan scores at less than 3 rpo) 8.5 times out of 10. That’s absurd.
Another reason why Azhar should move to open
 
Don't understand Azhar Alis reluctance batting opening when he is effectively opening the batting anyway since our openers get out early.

Add another middle order batsmen like Saud Shakeel and get Azhar Ali to open with someone like Haider Ali or another aggressive opening batsmen. Maybe Rizwan opening could be an option and get Usman Salahuddin in the middle order too.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Pakistan maybe better off trying to find two decent domestic middle order batsmen and turning them into test openers some how.
Click to expand...

Some of the middle order batsmen in domestic cricket have definitely shown better ability against new ball when got the opportunity than quite a few of the openers.
 
Saj said:
Pakistan's last 13 first wicket partnerships in Test cricket:

21, 22, 5, 3, 4, 0, 28, 49, 6, 6, 6, 36, 2

8 out of the 13 opening stands resulted in less than 10 runs.
Click to expand...

Simply no excuse for this. I think its not just the lack of ability of openers rather lack of ability of team management and selectors to judge the technique as well when it comes to playing the new ball. There are and have been some glaring errors in techniques of most openers we have tried over the last few years and in test cricket you just cant get away with those against decent attacks.
 
Saj said:
Pakistan's last 13 first wicket partnerships in Test cricket:

21, 22, 5, 3, 4, 0, 28, 49, 6, 6, 6, 36, 2

8 out of the 13 opening stands resulted in less than 10 runs.
Click to expand...

No 50 partnerships in that time either, really poor stuff.
 
Yes well on their way to keep the record. This is one thing Pakistan team is consistent on.
 
28-2 again. Sad to see none of the openers could score even a 30 odd this entire series. Just bring back muhammad abbas. He can atleat take off the shine of the ball in the first 10 overs as openers, maybe even last 100 balls in a blockathon. And it provides us with a extra bowler.
 
Pakistani test openers should just try to play t20 style cricket. Maybe once in a while they'll fluke their way to a 50.

Appalling record
 
Madplayer said:
Pakistani test openers should just try to play t20 style cricket. Maybe once in a while they'll fluke their way to a 50.

Appalling record
Click to expand...

That is why we should bring back imam and sharjeel. One is a defensive opener who at first will do no better or no worse than our current openers but will learn the trade while you have sharjeel who can once in a while make a quickfire 50.
 
Why isn't imam considered as an opener anymore? He came through the ranks just like Babar, he's smart, he'll learn and improve with time. Makes no sense to keep him out.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The constant pressure on Babar Azam and the rest of Pakistan's middle-order. Recent scores after the loss of 2 wickets in Test cricket:<br><br>28/2<br>21/2 <br>23/2 <br>15/2 <br>17/2 <br>66/2 <br>0/2 <br>39/2 <br>88/2 <br>11/2 <br>78/2 <br>33/2 <br>43/2 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvSA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvSA</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1357991420141867008?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 6, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
As the openers that we have are poor and have been pretty much for decades, we have tried young, old, hacks and "technicians" so why not think outside the box. For a start, find middle order bats that want to bat at the top and convert them to openers. For example the lad that played a test and plays for Central Punjab( whose name escapes me)
 
Was expecting 25/2 and 40/3, but they achieved 28/2 and 45/3. Good improvement none the less
 
Imagine going into every series with 3 walking wickets in top 4

Last series vs NZ
Abid
Shan
Haris

This series
Abid
Imran
Babar
 
The obvious solution for this series was to open with Azhar and introduce Saud Shakeel at 3.

A cursory look at Imran Butt's domestic stats would've told you about his prospects in Test cricket but trust this ignorant team management to never do their research.
 
Markhor said:
The obvious solution for this series was to open with Azhar and introduce Saud Shakeel at 3.

A cursory look at Imran Butt's domestic stats would've told you about his prospects in Test cricket but trust this ignorant team management to never do their research.
Click to expand...

Who else would you have picked instead of butt.

Salahuddin,Kamran ghullam ?
 
shamaan said:
Who else would you have picked instead of butt.

Salahuddin,Kamran ghullam ?
Click to expand...

Yep, would ask Usman Salahuddin to open. Has a compact technique but unfortunately Mohammad Wasim like Inzamam-ul-Haq think his SR is too low.

It's a lame reason because Azhar Ali's FC SR is 43, Salahuddin's is 44. And why are they obsessing over SR in Test cricket ?
 
Markhor said:
Yep, would ask Usman Salahuddin to open. Has a compact technique but unfortunately Mohammad Wasim like Inzamam-ul-Haq think his SR is too low.

It's a lame reason because Azhar Ali's FC SR is 43, Salahuddin's is 44. And why are they obsessing over SR in Test cricket ?
Click to expand...

I agree usman should have been picked he properly has the best defensive technique in my opinion and agreed strike rate doesn't really matter in tests and should not be brought into consideration.
 
worst opening pair in the history of the game. persisting with these walking wickets will cost pakistan games. this stupid process of picking just 5 batsmen and 2 rubbish openers has to stop.
 
We have so many options in middle order to try like Saud Shakeel, Kamran Ghulam. Why can’t Azhar Ali open the innings and let one of them play. heck even open with Azhar Ali and Kamran Ghulam. It will provide better output then these 2 openers at the moment.
 
We are just an awful batting side. Not exaggerating when I say we'd struggle to defeat a county side so poor are we. Just need to keep trying new players until we find some good batsmen.
 
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