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Well, if someone wins the series with 3-4 tests then it will be mighty impressive. But even one upset test win will be good to see.
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What is it about this Indian team that makes it the best team around now?
- Thread starter OMB
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Well, if someone wins the series with 3-4 tests then it will be mighty impressive. But even one upset test win will be good to see.
jnaveen1980
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This is probably an ATG NZ side. I still doubt they can beat Australia in Australia no matter who they field. Their bowling relies a lot on swing. Southee averages 38 in Australia Boult averages 38 in Australia. Wagner is the only one that has respectable figures averaging 22 Also with batting Taylor/KW average a mere 42 in Australia. Rest are very poor.
street cricketer
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Anybody who thinks New Zealand is the best team in the world right now simply doesn't understand test cricket.
India are far from being an ATG team, but they're the best of a pretty average bunch currently, and that would hold true even if India get bombed in the remaining matches of this series.
NZ are the best team in the world in specific conditions - when the ball swings and seams around, conditions you'd find in NZ and England. But they are average in conditions alien to their home conditions. They are currently like the Indian team of 2014-2017 when India ascended to the top of the rankings by being the best in the world in subcontinent conditions and even won in the West Indies which (then) had similar conditions to the subcontinent.
India right now has matured into a better team than the team of 2014-17. India absolutely destroys teams in its home conditions or in countries having conditions similar to its home. But it also now, at the very least, wins a test in conditions alien to them (it won a test in England even in 2018, one in South Africa in 2017 and has won two series in a row in Australia now). It annihilates teams in conditions favourable to them and competes well in conditions alien to them.
I would start considering the argument of NZ being the best team in the world when they win a single test, forget about a series or two, in Australia or India. Australia, being perennially bad players of spin, won a test in Pune in 2017. Even this average English team won a test in Chennai in the start of this year. And both India and South Africa (when it was actually good) won tests, if not entire series, in Australia. New Zealand is by far the best team in the world in swinging and seaming conditions, but it hardly competes in conditions alien to them against the top teams.
India are far from being an ATG team, but they're the best of a pretty average bunch currently, and that would hold true even if India get bombed in the remaining matches of this series.
NZ are the best team in the world in specific conditions - when the ball swings and seams around, conditions you'd find in NZ and England. But they are average in conditions alien to their home conditions. They are currently like the Indian team of 2014-2017 when India ascended to the top of the rankings by being the best in the world in subcontinent conditions and even won in the West Indies which (then) had similar conditions to the subcontinent.
India right now has matured into a better team than the team of 2014-17. India absolutely destroys teams in its home conditions or in countries having conditions similar to its home. But it also now, at the very least, wins a test in conditions alien to them (it won a test in England even in 2018, one in South Africa in 2017 and has won two series in a row in Australia now). It annihilates teams in conditions favourable to them and competes well in conditions alien to them.
I would start considering the argument of NZ being the best team in the world when they win a single test, forget about a series or two, in Australia or India. Australia, being perennially bad players of spin, won a test in Pune in 2017. Even this average English team won a test in Chennai in the start of this year. And both India and South Africa (when it was actually good) won tests, if not entire series, in Australia. New Zealand is by far the best team in the world in swinging and seaming conditions, but it hardly competes in conditions alien to them against the top teams.
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BreadPakoda
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They need a couple of good spinners to challenge India in India. When was the last time NZ won a test in India?
street cricketer
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When Kapil Dev was still playing I think.
Mahee
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NZ rarely tours India......coz they know that they are going to get humiliated when they come out of their comfort zone...they can never win anything either in India or Australia
Ab Fan
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NZ should improve now with inclusion of Jamieson. But they have to show it through results in Australia and India.
I’m see your 3 matches and raise you 3.
NZ in the last 6 matches in Australia and India. We all know what happened.
Really?
Last time I looked, Australia lost their last two away series to Pakistan.
Within months NZ won and drew their corresponding away series to Pakistan.
NZ actually do better than Australia in both England and Pakistan over the last decade. That’s just a fact.
An all time great bowling attack. Not just Indian all time but one of the most balanced bowling attacks world cricket has seen. It is not dependent on one or two ATGs but spread out evenly among four or five exceptional bowlers. Hence even if one has a bad day or two, the others fill in for them. And it's total relentless pressure on opposition batsmen. It is so well rounded that someone like Ashwin can't be an automatic pick.
Then the aggressive no holds barred captaincy and leadership by Virat Kohli. He has crafted this team in his own image over the last 6 or 7 years. He took over when the team was at a low, mid series in Aus. And like great leaders he immediately decided to make an impression by elevating his own play - great captains command devotion by setting an example, like Imran Khan or Kapil Dev. And over time he has also become an astute tactical captain. The idea to rile up Anderson was exceptional in its simplicity. A trap into which the opposition walked into Hook, line and sinker.
Another key thing has been the emergence of Rishabh Pant. In him India has got a player who put fear into opposition before a match starts. He has single handedly turned the course of tests in a matter of hours with his belligerence. Not to mention his ability to deliver under unbelievable pressure.
Another underrated factor has been Jadeja. His.batting has largely gone under the radar but figures don't lie. He is averaging close to 50 and played some important innings in clutch situations. And his fielding is exceptional. Not to mention the small matter of over 200 wickets at 24.
Also the much riled IPL has unearthed a batch of players who have been baptised in fire. IPL pressure is as good as any international match, and facing likes of Cummins and Jofras has made these youngsters mentally resilient and no longer in awe of great players. This helps the mental transitioning into top cricket easier. Like how we saw Sundar and Thakur having no regard for reputation in Australia and performing in clutch situations.
Of course bowling can only win matches if batsmen give them something to play with. Sadly, Indian batting has been plumbing new depths under Virat Kohli - Something he can't really control as batsmen are stand alone products which can't be moulded at test level. But even selections have been dire - especially sticking with Pujara and Rahane. There is no cut throat competition evident in this aspect which was the hall mark of great teams of yester years. This is one place they can improve.
Also IPL has resulted in some technical issues for young batsmen. They are excellent against intimidating fast bowling - short deliveries. But they lack the discipline and patience to play the game over longer duration, and in difficult swinging conditions. This is already being felt now - there are hardly any good Indian young batsmen barging into the test side threatening to disrupt the existing player order. We know Pujara and Rahane really need to be out but where are the alternatives who can do a better job than them? This is going to hurt Indian cricket further down the road.
Then the aggressive no holds barred captaincy and leadership by Virat Kohli. He has crafted this team in his own image over the last 6 or 7 years. He took over when the team was at a low, mid series in Aus. And like great leaders he immediately decided to make an impression by elevating his own play - great captains command devotion by setting an example, like Imran Khan or Kapil Dev. And over time he has also become an astute tactical captain. The idea to rile up Anderson was exceptional in its simplicity. A trap into which the opposition walked into Hook, line and sinker.
Another key thing has been the emergence of Rishabh Pant. In him India has got a player who put fear into opposition before a match starts. He has single handedly turned the course of tests in a matter of hours with his belligerence. Not to mention his ability to deliver under unbelievable pressure.
Another underrated factor has been Jadeja. His.batting has largely gone under the radar but figures don't lie. He is averaging close to 50 and played some important innings in clutch situations. And his fielding is exceptional. Not to mention the small matter of over 200 wickets at 24.
Also the much riled IPL has unearthed a batch of players who have been baptised in fire. IPL pressure is as good as any international match, and facing likes of Cummins and Jofras has made these youngsters mentally resilient and no longer in awe of great players. This helps the mental transitioning into top cricket easier. Like how we saw Sundar and Thakur having no regard for reputation in Australia and performing in clutch situations.
Of course bowling can only win matches if batsmen give them something to play with. Sadly, Indian batting has been plumbing new depths under Virat Kohli - Something he can't really control as batsmen are stand alone products which can't be moulded at test level. But even selections have been dire - especially sticking with Pujara and Rahane. There is no cut throat competition evident in this aspect which was the hall mark of great teams of yester years. This is one place they can improve.
Also IPL has resulted in some technical issues for young batsmen. They are excellent against intimidating fast bowling - short deliveries. But they lack the discipline and patience to play the game over longer duration, and in difficult swinging conditions. This is already being felt now - there are hardly any good Indian young batsmen barging into the test side threatening to disrupt the existing player order. We know Pujara and Rahane really need to be out but where are the alternatives who can do a better job than them? This is going to hurt Indian cricket further down the road.
Also it is laughworthy to think NZ is a world beating team when they hardly venture out of their comfort zone. They got the better luck of draw in the WTC final- got to acclimatise by playing two test matches against England where they trialled different line ups. And also got a green top which made spinners redundant - a shameful thing for a ICC final. They don't have a single decent spinner who can bowl out opposition in the subcontinent. Nor they have the resilience to win in Australia.
They were pummelled by India the last time they toured India. Of course India were pummeled in NZ as well.
They were pummelled by India the last time they toured India. Of course India were pummeled in NZ as well.
dildilpak
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One small point - Pakistan is not exactly the team to beat in test cricket though, is it?
Also England is just like another backyard for NZ - with swinging, seaming wickets. Question is how well NZ does against good oppositions on bouncy tracks & on spinning wickets in Australia & India? They can be truly called no. 1 only if they conquer both.
jnaveen1980
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I strongly believe India can beat NZ in NZ with the right team. Bumrah returning from injury, openers like Agarwal/Shaw who were preferred over Gill who was making runs for fun in the tour game, Also KL Rahul was not even in the picture there. Toss, conditions combination of a lot of things contributed to that series loss. With a settled line up India is capable of beating them in their own backyard.
jusarrived
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I think overall its pretty close between NZ and India. India has a slight edge as we adapt to alien conditions better than NZ has shown it can.
You realize that NZ also played against this Australian team 1.5 years ago and lost by 279, 247 and 296 runs?
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/trans-tasman-trophy-2019-20-1183523/match-results
They even lost both Tests to Australia the last time Australia visited NZ.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...a-in-new-zealand-2015-16-914251/match-results
NZ is a very good team, and congratulations to them for their WC victory. Their victory is quite incredible considering their population size, so even more credit to them. However they are simply not competitive against India unless conditions favor them, and against Australia both at home and away.
If you are really going to go into individual Tests in support of the hypothesis that NZ is better than India, the following data pretty much trashes your hypothesis.
NZ have lost their last 6 Tests in India and Australia by an average of over 250 runs.
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This thread is actually hilarious.
It’s as if straight after Michael Spinks got knocked out in his World Heavyweight bout against Mike Tyson after 91 seconds of Round One, his fans tried to create a narrative for how he was the real champion.
India, you had your chance.
New Zealand clobbered you in the World Test Championship Final.
New Zealand are the champions. You’re not.
You scored 387 runs in 2 innings. You only made the match last 320 overs - with no rain it would have been over before Lunch on Day 4.
No offence, but it’s time for the losers to know their place and to stop pretending they won.
It’s as if straight after Michael Spinks got knocked out in his World Heavyweight bout against Mike Tyson after 91 seconds of Round One, his fans tried to create a narrative for how he was the real champion.
India, you had your chance.
New Zealand clobbered you in the World Test Championship Final.
New Zealand are the champions. You’re not.
You scored 387 runs in 2 innings. You only made the match last 320 overs - with no rain it would have been over before Lunch on Day 4.
No offence, but it’s time for the losers to know their place and to stop pretending they won.
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Also, not only did NZ lose the last 6 Tests in India and Australia by an average of over 250 runs per Test, but they did so while their bowlers took an average of less than 15 wickets per Test.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/nz-in-india-test-series-2016-17-1030207/match-results
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/trans-tasman-trophy-2019-20-1183523/match-results
Yeah, yeah... we all know NZ won the WCT... silly boxing comparisons aside, NZ are still not competitive in Aus and India.
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Oh I see! That's how you are trying to prove that black is white and green is red.
There is no obvious reason why Australia even features in this conversation.
They lost their last series in Pakistan (where NZ won) and Sri Lanka (where NZ drew).
But of course that is the only way you can try to invent a narrative in which this India team are not serial losers.
India lost their last series in England.
India lost their last series in New Zealand.
India lost their last series in South Africa.
But of course they keep beating the weakest Australia team since 1986. So suddenly winning in Australia is the only thing that counts - it apparently counts more than winning the World Test Championship!
In terms of touring India, I actually don't know. New Zealand has barely toured India in recent times, but their good results in Sri Lanka and the UAE make me think they will be no pushovers when they do tour India.
We have to take the World Test Championship as the least bad way of measuring the strength of the Test teams. It's absurd that India doesn't forfeit series - and points - against Pakistan for refusing to face them, so India continue to be unfairly favoured by avoiding tough series. But it's the best we have got so we must all accept it.
jeeteshssaxena
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Ok Junaids, so a one on one competition is what reveals the winner according to you.
That's cool, now you just need to wait for two months buddy, Nz tours India in November, the series will end in six days.
Your ability to make a logical argument is weak.
Take it slow and try to understand what the following two imply about the NZ team:
1) this is the weakest Australian team since 1986 (your claim).
2) NZ got thrashed by this Australian team (fact).
No, I've been very clear that the World Test Championship Final was the most important cricket match ever.
India gets another chance to become the world's best team - in June 2023. Until then all they can do is work hard to get into the Final.
Good luck to India - they are a very good team although I can't stand it when teams have that kind of obnoxious attitude. In terms of obnoxiousness they remind me of Australia, who I would have thought would be the last team you'd want to copy.
At which point he will disappear, like he did from threads in which he claimed BCCI was surviving on “handouts” from other countries
I've already answered that.
NZ had to play a Day/Nighter in Perth and lost their strike bowler, and Jamieson had yet to emerge.
At which point he will disappear, like he did from threads in which he claimed BCCI was surviving on “handouts” from other countries
I have been proven right on that. It's a fact.
In case you haven't noticed, that's why they kept on playing the IPL out of economic desperation while what is accepted overseas as a total of 4 million Indians was dying of Covid.
You might not like what I say, and there are always two points of view, but by and large my arguments are always backed up with facts. You can interpret those facts differently, by all means.
You can “explain” to your heart’s content, but it won’t change the fact that NZ lost not 2 but 3 Tests by an average of about 275 runs even after Australia declared one innings 2 down and another innings 5 down.
Your ability to make a logical argument is really weak.
I assume the Japanese are also held the Olympics out of economic desperation.
BreadPakoda
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Best post on the thread. Agree that India needs to improve its batting to become unbeatable.
Itachi
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.... You didn't actually watched the match nor you had any interest/information prior to writing this post. This is what I don't understand.
Why debate for the sake of debate?
Arguments should have an aim to enrich our knowledge. You learn something from me and I learn something from you too.
But arguments for the sake of it doesn't lead anywhere except creating unnecessary noise which is devoid of anything that can be considered as constructive.
So why?
Actually yes.
They had spent a fortune on Olympic venues, and needed the NBC TV revenue to pay off the outlay.
Financial reasons are precisely why the Olympics took place this year.
Same with the Euros too.
OMB
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New Zealand are the current world champs and are an unbeatable at home.
Not taking away from their title of being world champs in a one off test finals but ask yourself (without using ifs and buts) - Is this enough to be labeled as the best team around?
Not taking away from their title of being world champs in a one off test finals but ask yourself (without using ifs and buts) - Is this enough to be labeled as the best team around?
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Wow... next we are going to be told that the Japanese like the BCCI are surviving on financial "handouts" from other nations
Manunited18
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New Zealand are rightfully the current best Test team.
England are currently the best white ball team by a country mile.
England are currently the best white ball team by a country mile.
Wow... next we are going to be told that the Japanese like the BCCI are surviving on financial "handouts" from other nations
This is what always goes wrong with India, in terms of their cricket board and their fans.
You can't tell the difference between
1. Your country.
2. Your cricket board.
3. Your cricket team.
4. Your local TV networks.
The Olympic Games had to be paid for. Bank loans were taken out by the local organising committee to build stadia and the Olympic village and by the Tokyo prefecture to build public transport infrastructure which never got used.
To you Japan may be "rich" but all these things cost money that has to be paid back. So of course, Japan went ahead with the Olympics this summer because Tokyo and the local organisers faced financial ruin if they didn't get their share of the TV revenue from the IOC.
The Euros were just the same. The investment in rebuilt stadia had to be paid off.
I'm rich compared with most people in India. But I have to pay off a house, three cars, a set of university fees and a set of school fees. If I don't have the income to pay my bills I default.
Nikhil_cric
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Best white ball team has lost ODI seeies to both Australia and India in the last 2 years.
They are certainly not ahead by a country mileIndia haters here are hypocrites of the highest order.
When we used to beat teams at home for fun they used to bash us for home bullies like there is no tomorrow.
However the same hypocrites won't utter a word when NZ exhibit more or less the same form.
When we used to beat teams at home for fun they used to bash us for home bullies like there is no tomorrow.
However the same hypocrites won't utter a word when NZ exhibit more or less the same form.
Also, everyone knows how they won the ODI WC.Best white ball team has lost ODI seeies to both Australia and India in the last 2 years.
India is clearly the best team in the world at present. Anyone denies it is either living in denial or simply jealous. WTC Final was a farce. NZ got a headstart by playing 2 games in similar conditions where as India had to play straight out of quarantine. The last Australia tour and the ongoing Eng tour proves this Indian team is the best team at present.
India chose to arrive in the UK too late and not play any proper preparatory matches.
In 2018 both India and Pakistan had tours of England.
Pakistan arrived early, practised in a public park and then went to Ireland to play a warm-up Test. They then drew 1-1 in England.
India didn’t prepare properly for their Test series and lost 4-1 to the same England team.
India were welcome to arrive early like the 2020 Pandemic Pakistan team, and stay at the same 1 star hotels at the grounds at Worcester and Derby where Pakistan stayed and prepared. They chose not to because they are too special to stay in such mediocre hotels.
India's easily the best test team at present no questions asked. This is a team that has the ability to beat any opposition in any conditions and we saw that in Australia and we are seeing that occur in England.
A series win in England or New Zealand would also in my opinion cement this Indian team as part of those once in a generation top tier teams with the others being South Africa of the 2010s, Australia of the late 90s and 2000s and the old West Indies team.
My only critique some odd selections that are made by the management but aside from that this is an outstanding team
A series win in England or New Zealand would also in my opinion cement this Indian team as part of those once in a generation top tier teams with the others being South Africa of the 2010s, Australia of the late 90s and 2000s and the old West Indies team.
My only critique some odd selections that are made by the management but aside from that this is an outstanding team
Indian players travel with family and kids. They will never sacrifice and stay in Travelodge with a hope that ECB will send their players for 2 T20 matches in return. Indian players are not that desperate. Its not about being special but its called maintaining certain quality & standard in life.
The fact remains NZ got to play 2 proper test matches prior to the WTC and clearly had an advantage over India. Having said all that NZ clearly was the better team in WTC finals and every Indian fans acknowledged that too.
What fans like us not able to come to terms is you downplaying all test matches/Indian wins just bcoz they didnt win the WTC finals. You do realize right it was not the only WTC and there will be more in future.
Its a clear case of you being bitter of the recent Indian team success. Remember how you were adamant before Australian tour that Indian team will not even be allowed to enter mainland Australia? Lol. Not only India entered mainland Australia but beat them in their home.
Jealously is not that good mate...its just a sport. Try to appreciate good teams rather than being bitter always.
Ab Fan
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Top 5 teams in the world:-
Tests :-
1. India
2. New Zealand
3. Australia
4. South Africa
5. England
ODIs:-
1. India
2. England
3. New Zealand
4. South Africa
5. Australia
T20s:-
1. India
2. England
3. New Zealand
England played India in ODIs and T20s early this year in what was the battle between two top teams and the results were:-
ODIs - 3-2 India
T20s- 2-1 India
India are comfortably the best team in the world in all formats currently.
Tests :-
1. India
2. New Zealand
3. Australia
4. South Africa
5. England
ODIs:-
1. India
2. England
3. New Zealand
4. South Africa
5. Australia
T20s:-
1. India
2. England
3. New Zealand
England played India in ODIs and T20s early this year in what was the battle between two top teams and the results were:-
ODIs - 3-2 India
T20s- 2-1 India
India are comfortably the best team in the world in all formats currently.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Calling WTC final a farce just because we lost it lol? That's like saying 1983 WC was a farce because West Indies were the best team around that time and India won the WC by a fluke.
The number of games India play against sides like Aus and Eng both home and away and the number of games NZ gets to play against these sides should also be compared especially when you are bringing NZ's tour of England before WTC final. Just goes to show how focussed they were for that final. On the other hand we were focussing on our pyjama league.
Calling WTC final a farce just because we lost it lol? That's like saying 1983 WC was a farce because West Indies were the best team around that time and India won the WC by a fluke.
The number of games India play against sides like Aus and Eng both home and away and the number of games NZ gets to play against these sides should also be compared especially when you are bringing NZ's tour of England before WTC final. Just goes to show how focussed they were for that final. On the other hand we were focussing on our pyjama league.
Farce in terms of scheduling. NZ played 2 unplanned test matches in the same venue before the WTC final. That gave them a headstart and advantage which to their credit they utilized well. So people harping on WTC final need to realize the contest was heavily lob sided towards the kiwis.
Focussing on pyjama league? Lol. The recent sucess you see in Indian cricket or BCCI today is due to IPL. Ofcourse they will focus on it bcoz its the cash cow and catalyst for our national teams success.
As I said, keep hating and Indian team will keep winning in places like Aust/Eng.
Romali_rotti
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NZ better ?
How ?
NZ would get smoked in AUS, they may scrape away with a draw in SA now that SA is decimated off talent.
NZ would not even win a practice match in India.
NZ won that fluke 1 match test match for the test championship because they were playing in ENG while the Indians were on 2 week isolation with no match practice in ENG.
NZ the luckiest team in the world but I do like Kane Williamson more than Kohli, he is a genuinely good person and player.
Sunzi
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Quality/Talent but it's also the mindset. There is an air of arrogance which is actually fearlessness and competitiveness combined; there is no complex.
They're good, they know they are and they go out to show it.
They're good, they know they are and they go out to show it.
Romali_rotti
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That Arrogance by Kohli is quite pathetic and I am seeing that in Siraj also, not great imo.. If you look at guys like Root, Williamson etc shows they dont need the arrogance to be successful
Sunzi
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I don't think it's a bad thing - might annoy and irritate people but they will do whatever it takes to win and succeed. Ultra competitive backed by the talent to go toe-to-toe.
The Indian team is Kohli personified.
For once we agree.
I think that Siraj has all the raw materials to be the best pace bowler in world cricket in a year or two, although time is not on his side as he's already 27 years old. But his attitude is just obnoxious, and I don't think it's great after just 7 Tests to already be the most hated man in world cricket.
Siraj has made a good start on favourable wickets, but he has 27 wickets in his career, and he's already 27 years old.
In contrast, Shaheen Shah Afridi has 66 wickets at the age of 21, and even Naseem Shah has 20 wickets at the likely age of 20.
The last sensible comment that Waqar Younis ever made was in June 2003 when he said to Shoaib Akhtar "just shut up and bowl".
I wish that someone would say the same thing to Siraj. He's a year older than Kyle Jamieson.
Jamieson has 46 wickets in 8 Tests at 14.17.
Siraj has 27 wickets in 7 Tests at 26.29.
At the moment Jamieson is much better, but Siraj has a bigger mouth.
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Manunited18
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They just battered India in the WORLD TEST FINAL. How can you call winning a test match over 5 days a fluke?
Romali_rotti
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Easy..
One team played multiple test matches just before the test championship on the same ground ?.
While the other was on 2 weeks isolation for match preparation.
Flukee...
Romali_rotti
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Bold..
CrIc_Mystique
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Hmmm...Melbourne test on boxing day....comprende? what happened there? or did global warming step in with a vengence....?
Devadwal
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Nz only played 2 test match series in England most of time ,they only won once ( just last series) with 1-0
Now comes to india tour of England if like nz india played only 2 test match series
Then in 2014 India would have won that series 1-0
Current series india have won 1-0 .
What have nz done aparts from home series win ?
Why does NZ only play two test "series"? As WTC champions, shouldn't they start doing their part in promoting the test format?
Manunited18
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No they didnt play at the same venue.
Bottom line is kiwis are the Test champions and they fully deserve it.
Kiwis are World Test Champions. That title is rightfully theirs and no one can take that away from them.
Whether they "fully deserve it" is debatable. Much in the same way that England being crowned ODI World Champions has been a debatable point till now.
Sri Lanka were ODI World Champions in 1996. But nobody who followed cricket during that era would say that they were a better team than Australia or Pakistan.
Sometimes these things align, sometimes they don't.
Ashraful_Rox
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Mohammed Siraj and Mohammed Shami 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Yeah so what were we doing when NZ were playing 2 tests against England? You can actually check the threads during those days I said the exact same thing that some of you will bring lack of match practice as an excuse after losing WTC final. You were too busy watching IPL and found it laughable back then too lol. Who stopped India from organising few practice matches in England/Ireland? We were focussing on IPL indeed. Success in tests is due to IPL? What are you smoking? The only thing which helped India in this series against England is the cancellation of IPL in May which gave enough rests to bowlers like Bumrah and Ishant who have a history of getting injured in IPL before important tours. Also when was the last time we won big ICC tournaments due to IPL?
Yeah so what were we doing when NZ were playing 2 tests against England? You can actually check the threads during those days I said the exact same thing that some of you will bring lack of match practice as an excuse after losing WTC final. You were too busy watching IPL and found it laughable back then too lol. Who stopped India from organising few practice matches in England/Ireland? We were focussing on IPL indeed. Success in tests is due to IPL? What are you smoking? The only thing which helped India in this series against England is the cancellation of IPL in May which gave enough rests to bowlers like Bumrah and Ishant who have a history of getting injured in IPL before important tours. Also when was the last time we won big ICC tournaments due to IPL?
Dude no one is giving any excuse. NZ is deserving winner of WTC. Its [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] that brought this topic that just bcoz India lost the WTC Finals, their win against Eng dont count and the entire series is meaningless
)NZ are WTC winners but there is an asterics attached on that win due to scheduling. Whether they are the best team or not is debatable and in my humble opinion, they are not.
Stop rambling about IPL like a broken record...lol. We just won a test series in Australia straight after playing the IPL. So this win in Eng has nothing to do with Bumrah getting rest. We won in Eng bcoz we are a better side than them...simple.
We won a test match in Gabba (where Australia was undefeated for 4 decades) due to IPL players like Natarajan, Pant, Siraj, Washington etc. IPL has instilled that fearless attitude that even our fringe players has that mentality to win in places like Brisbane with almost half the team is injured. Back in the 90s we would wet our pants thinking of taking on Aussies in Gabba without main players.
IPL is a blessing for Indian cricket and you are simply jealous of it. The best thing is...you know it too
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Dude no one is giving any excuse. NZ is deserving winner of WTC. Its [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] that brought this topic that just bcoz India lost the WTC Finals, their win against Eng dont count and the entire series is meaningless
NZ are WTC winners but there is an asterics attached on that win due to scheduling. Whether they are the best team or not is debatable and in my humble opinion, they are not.
Stop rambling about IPL like a broken record...lol. We just won a test series in Australia straight after playing the IPL. So this win in Eng has nothing to do with Bumrah getting rest. We won in Eng bcoz we are a better side than them...simple.
We won a test match in Gabba (where Australia was undefeated for 4 decades) due to IPL players like Natarajan, Pant, Siraj, Washington etc. IPL has instilled that fearless attitude that even our fringe players has that mentality to win in places like Brisbane with almost half the team is injured. Back in the 90s we would wet our pants thinking of taking on Aussies in Gabba without main players.
IPL is a blessing for Indian cricket and you are simply jealous of it. The best thing is...you know it too
Calling someone jealous again and again for posting their opinion on IPL shows who actually is a broken record here. You are running out of ideas it seems.
There is no asterisk attached on NZ win because both NZ and India played their full strength team in the WTC final. It reminds of those stupid students who keep partying hard when exams are around the corner and when they fail they blame the education board for scheduling the exams without giving them enough time for preparation. Sore losers.
Swashbuckler
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Jamieson has played all his matches in NZ and Eng. He is like the pace version of Axar Patel right now. Has to prove himself outside his comfort zone.
Siraj won his team a series in Australia, played a few tests in India, now England. Performance everywhere.
No comparison right now. Jamieson must prove he is not another Rabada/Broad/Philander, averaging 20 at home and 100 overseas. Problem with many people is that they deliberately downplay records in Asia, won't let it pass.
NZ as a team has done nothing in Australia or India for 4 decades now. Forget winning a series, I don't see them drawing against most Ranji sides in Indian conditions. Every locality in India has better test class spinners than Santner/Sodhi.
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Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Siraj is a better and genuine bowling prospect currently. I don't think he should be compared with Jamieson. Jamieson is tall and can bat too. I think he will be compared with someone like Jason Holder in the future.
Calling someone jealous again and again for posting their opinion on IPL shows who actually is a broken record here. You are running out of ideas it seems.
There is no asterisk attached on NZ win because both NZ and India played their full strength team in the WTC final. It reminds of those stupid students who keep partying hard when exams are around the corner and when they fail they blame the education board for scheduling the exams without giving them enough time for preparation. Sore losers.
I am simply giving you facts, which you are not willing to listen.
You asked what IPL has given us and we only won against Eng bcoz IPL got cancelled and Bumrah got rest. But thats factually incorrect as I explained above that we won our greatest overseas test series without Bumrah just after playing IPL and with IPL finge players. How much more clear can I be? If you are still not willing to accept, then obviously you are jealous. Its not my problem and neither I am running out of ideas...Lol.
Win is a win and asterisk depends on person to person's convinience. Hence I said, no one is questioning NZs win in WTC Finals as its a fact they won.
But it was also a fact that we won a test series in Australia back in 2018, remember? It didnt stop you from adding an asterisk on it based on your convinience and spoke about it for years. But just like you, I also have a right to add asterisk based on my convinience. And I strongly believe that NZ won bcoz they got 3 test matches to win the WTC finals vs only 1 shot for team India. Its upto you to not accept that astrisk or not.
Viru Bhai
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Manunited18
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Bottom line is kiwis are the Test champions and for that reason that title justifies them being the best.
As for England's world cup win, prior to the world cup England were dominant in the white ball format for a good 3-4 years.
Swashbuckler
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Siraj is a better and genuine bowling prospect currently. I don't think he should be compared with Jamieson. Jamieson is tall and can bat too. I think he will be compared with someone like Jason Holder in the future.
I rate Jamieson highly, just needed an OTT post for other OTT posts on this thread
Siraj will be a good-great all-conditions pure frontline bowler. Jamieson has a different role, maybe he will develop into NZ version of Jadeja or even better. He can be an ATG but in the role of a fast bowling all-rounder. I think his ceiling is higher than Holder's.
Holding the championship cup doesn't automatically translate to being the best team, especially in a format like test with a one-off final.
In my opinion, if I had to bet on a team to win a test, without having any knowledge of who the opponent is, which venue it is and what the pitch looks like, I will pick India each and every time.
Romali_rotti
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Still doesn't matter even if they didn't play in the same venue, they played in the same country and got accustomed to the conditions while the other team was on a 2 week Isolation.
Had India and NZ were on the level playing field, NZ would have been comprehensively beaten imo...
The India which lost their last series in England?
The India which lost their last series in South Africa?
The India which lost their last series in New Zealand?
The India which lost their last series in Pakistan?
Ab Fan
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The last statement is quite hillarious and you know it why
Let's look at age of some of our current players when India lost that series.
Kaptaan Kohli - 16 year old
Ashwin - 20 year old
Bumrah/Siraj - 12 year old
Pant - 8 year old
I know you like to back youngsters over 30+ veterans but this is a little too far fetched expectation.
They are good at batting, bowling and fielding. Consistency brings success, the BCCI is a very stable and mature board who takes good care of it's players. We don't hear of any infighting within the Indian squad or things like that. In Virat Kohli they have a captain who is rightfully respected by all the players. No cry babies in the team who make it a big issue if they are dropped.
Mesozoic
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Devadwal
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IPL is here to stay and if its overtaking international cricket then its the failure of the cricket boards who cant pay at par with IPL to keep their players away from IPL. Infact they take a share from IPL for allowing their players. So deal with it. If cricket boards dont value International cricket then no one should moan about it. Its getting ridiculous and boring when people crib about IPL over and again. Now IPL will have 10 teams and then 12,14 and so on. There will be 6 months of IPL and 6 months of International cricket in future.
OMB
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'IPL has to get credit for it as well': Parthiv Patel explains key reason behind Indian team's success
Former India cricketer Parthiv Patel believes that is the close bonding between the Indian players in the dressing room that has helped the team in achieving recent successful results.
India's emphatic win over England at Lord's in the second Test silenced critics who questioned Virat Kohli's captaincy after the World Test Championship final defeat against New Zealand in July. It was an enthralling comeback from India who were in a precarious position going into the final day but managed to bowl out the hosts for 120 to win the match by 151 runs.
Indian fast bowlers Mohammed Shami, Jasprit Bumrah, and Mohammed Siraj rattled English batting line-up after Bumrah and Shami stitched an unbeaten 89-run stand to set up a target of 272 runs for the Joe Root-led side.
The best bit of the match was the camaraderie between all the Indian players who stepped up to support and cheer for their teammates, and when things started heating up from Day 3 onwards between India and England players, all the Indian players kept each other's backs.
Former India cricketer Parthiv Patel believes that the close bonding between the Indian players in the dressing room that has helped the team in achieving recent successful results.
“If you look at the Indian dressing room as of now, you see Ishant Sharma roaming around with Virat Kohli. But, you also see Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav, both different characters move around. Rishabh Pant goes out with Hardik Pandya, one is from the west, the other is from the north. There are a few guys from the east I think," Parthiv said on Players Lounge podcast.
“If you look at Dinesh Karthik and Hardik/ Krunal Pandya, they are best of friends. One can’t speak English, one can’s speak Hindi and still they get along really well. I think why the Indian team is doing really well in this era is because they gel really well together and IPL has to get credit for it as well," he further added.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/ipl-has-to-get-credit-for-it-as-well-parthiv-patel-explains-key-reason-behind-indian-team-s-success-101629607648227.html
Former India cricketer Parthiv Patel believes that is the close bonding between the Indian players in the dressing room that has helped the team in achieving recent successful results.
India's emphatic win over England at Lord's in the second Test silenced critics who questioned Virat Kohli's captaincy after the World Test Championship final defeat against New Zealand in July. It was an enthralling comeback from India who were in a precarious position going into the final day but managed to bowl out the hosts for 120 to win the match by 151 runs.
Indian fast bowlers Mohammed Shami, Jasprit Bumrah, and Mohammed Siraj rattled English batting line-up after Bumrah and Shami stitched an unbeaten 89-run stand to set up a target of 272 runs for the Joe Root-led side.
The best bit of the match was the camaraderie between all the Indian players who stepped up to support and cheer for their teammates, and when things started heating up from Day 3 onwards between India and England players, all the Indian players kept each other's backs.
Former India cricketer Parthiv Patel believes that the close bonding between the Indian players in the dressing room that has helped the team in achieving recent successful results.
“If you look at the Indian dressing room as of now, you see Ishant Sharma roaming around with Virat Kohli. But, you also see Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav, both different characters move around. Rishabh Pant goes out with Hardik Pandya, one is from the west, the other is from the north. There are a few guys from the east I think," Parthiv said on Players Lounge podcast.
“If you look at Dinesh Karthik and Hardik/ Krunal Pandya, they are best of friends. One can’t speak English, one can’s speak Hindi and still they get along really well. I think why the Indian team is doing really well in this era is because they gel really well together and IPL has to get credit for it as well," he further added.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/ipl-has-to-get-credit-for-it-as-well-parthiv-patel-explains-key-reason-behind-indian-team-s-success-101629607648227.html
Joseph Gomes
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Your trolling attempts are getting worse and worse.
Joseph Gomes
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NZ has a worse away w/l ratio than Pakistan lol. Biggest example of home bullies if there was one.
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