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What is Shoaib Malik's overall legacy in ODI cricket?

msb314

msb314

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Now I understand his career is far from over yet and is expected to continue to play until the 2019 WC. However, I think this is the apt time to bring this up.

Fair to say - he has had an interesting career. I believe he made his debut back in 1999 in the Pakistan/WI/SL Tri-series in Sharjah. However, he was in and out of the team and did not really establish himself in the team until 2004.

From 2004 - he became a very consistent ODI batsman and was earmarked highly by Bob Woolmer to be our "go-to" number 3 batsman in ODI's. From 2004-2009 he was remarkably consistent and scored plenty of runs. Unknown to many - Malik scored 3 consecutive 90+ scores in ODIs during India's tour of Pakistan in 2006 which reflected his incredible form as a no. 3 batsman during those years.

When Geoff Lawson became coach and Inzy retired from ODI's - Malik became captain and had been earmarked as being a natural leader and a great tactician. He worked wonders in the inaugural 2007 World T20 leading us to the final and won the Kitply Cup in 2008 and also led us to a record 12 game winning streak in ODI's in 2008 (our current record under Sarfraz is 9 consecutive wins so a great opportunity to break that streak!). Unfortunately - for him, things went downhill due to allegations of oath-taking and seniors not warming up to his captaincy and was discarded from that role in 2009 and has not been captain ever since. However, many players and officials still recognize his leadership skills and has been praised by many players e.g. Haris Sohail for mentoring them during his time as National Team captain and as captain for Sialkot Stallions.

Then came his wilderness years from 2009-2015. During this time - his Test form rapidly declined as he struggled in the tour of England and Australia in 2009/2010. He subsequently banned by the board for 1 year for causing "disruptions" in the national team. Intikhab Alam described him as a poor leader for being "aloof and a loner" and for not leading the team when required. His ODI form declined too and did not play in the England and SAF ODI series in 2010. By the time of the 2011 WC - he was completely out of the picture and it seemed like his career had come to a premature end.

However, he continued to be selected in World T20's and occasionally showed a glimpse of his abilities in that format e.g. his partnership with Kamran Akmal when Pakistan chased down 190 in the 2012 World T20 warmup game. However, his inconsistency labelled him as a "TTF" by many fans and pundits and many believed his continuous selection was due to external factors not related to merit. A horrendous 2013 CT for him finally seemed to signal the end of his career but as many in Pakistan know - never say never!

By the end of the 2015 WC - Misbah, Afridi and YK (practically) had retired and Malik's tremendous form in the National T20 Cup led to his recall to the ODI team during Zimbabwe's tour of Pakistan in 2015. As fate would have had it - a strong opening partnership with plenty of over left - precipitated his promotion to no. 3! He rolled back the years with a stunning 112" off only 76 balls as Pakistan scored 375/3. He never looked back since and although suffered a slight dip in form in our 2016 tour of England - he came back strongly in the final ODI scoring 77 off 80 balls to cement his place in the middle order. He then scored a stunning hundred during our tour of WI in 2017 and continues to play the role of a middle order/finisher under Sarfraz's leadership.

Since May 2015 - Malik's record in ODi's is:

Batting Avg 55.23 SR 95

Would like to refer to this thread by my fellow PP'er [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] that discussed Shoaib Malik's impact on the Sialkot Stallions.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ow-do-the-Stallions-do-it&highlight=Stallions
So back to the question - what is Malik's overall legacy in ODI cricket for Pakistan? Most fans and pundits would categorize him as follows.

1) A Pakistani great and one of the finest ODI batsman to have played for Pakistan - one who truly understands the requirements of modern day cricket on par with Saeed Anwar, Inzy, MoYo etc. Insanely good against spin and in Asian conditions and good elsewhere.

2) A gross underachiever - who should have done more with his talent and his form during the last few years does not compensate for his poor record for nearly half a decade and outside Asia in general.

3) Overall decent batsman who had weaknesses but picked his battles and was a shrewd and useful ODi player but not a great one.

Take your pick and discuss!
 
One of our only truly dynamic modern batsmen since the turn of the millennium who most certainly punched under his weight and should have achieved greater heights. Had his issues against pace, abroad etc, but an extended backing up the order (3 or 4) and some consistency means he should have established his return form as a general sample of his entire career rather than a late career purple patch.

Even that's discounting his short captaincy tenure, hence never translating his immense domestic success with Sialkot to the international stage.

Stats don't do his skillset justice. He could play spin and play them out of the game and knew how to pace an innings much better than many of his peers. Often a victim of the rest of the batting not pulling their weight scoring rate wise and forcing him to up the ante.

I'll always appreciate Malik for his selflessness, never can accuse him of going into his shell to play selfishly and putting the team on the back burner. He also will go down as one of the fittest athletes and best fielders to wear the green shirt.

Overall, I think he was shoe-horned at 5 or 6 far too long and was a victim of the fact that he could accelerate the innings lower down the order while those above him were one-dimensional accumulators who simply had to be accommodated at positions that Malik would otherwise thrive in.

He'll definitely go down in the archives very positively but he could have done much, much more.
 
Interesting comments as people are already divided! :)

Will wait to hear more.
 
a useful crickter who had done mistakes off the field and he rightly suffered for that but over all many match winning innings and an agile fielder with contrbution from the bowling.
Will be remmebered for promoting youngsters in his national and domestic captaincy stint.
 
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An underachiever with great potential who could have done a lot more for his team, pretty much like Carl Hooper from WI. I expect him to play a crucial role for us in the 2019 WC, that will be a perfect ending for his unfulfilled career.
 
Will finish as a Pakistani great. Had a decent career but lacked the consistency throughout his career to be a great ODI player.

He gets too much mate from some on his forum. He's gotten better with age and kept himself in good shape throughout his career.
 
A good LOI player. He still has time left so he can further improve his legacy and perhaps become Pakistan's Yuvraj/Symonds.
 
DRsohail said:
a useful crickter who had done mistakes off the field and he rightly suffered for that but over all many match winning innings and an agile fielder with contrbution from the bowling.
Will be remmebered for promoting youngsters in his national and domestic captaincy stint.
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didnt score anything for years and only near the end of his career has he finally hit some form. Any other player would have been back in domestics and long gone years ago. He was kept in the side when otehr deserving players should have taken his place. One of the last true TTF's.
 
A decent player at best. I respect him for keeping himself fit and for mentoring younger players in the team, but not a great because of a failure to perform against good pace attacks especially outside Asia.

He has a chance to fix his abysmal record in New Zealand in a few months time, and in England, where he averages 13, in 2019.

Needs to have a big 2019 World Cup to leave behind a noteworthy legacy.
 
Good ODI player who underachieved for the majority of his career. The form from 2015 isn't a huge surprise, because he'd been doing this day in day out in domestic, especially success as a finisher. He just failed to replicate that in internationals.
 
Definitely not a big occasion player..

Must credit him for his mentoring.. haris sohail is where he is because of malik.. shahid yousaf hasn't got his chance yet but he was also good under malik.
 
DRsohail said:
a useful crickter who had done mistakes off the field and he rightly suffered for that but over all many match winning innings and an agile fielder with contrbution from the bowling.
Will be remmebered for promoting youngsters in his national and domestic captaincy stint.
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Which mistakes??
 
Will become a Pakistani great if he wins us the World Cup, will be loved by all and retire peacefully.
 
One of the greatest of all time.

The way he has transformed and even sent packing numerous haters into this forum into fans is a testament to it.

You don't realize the legends you have till they have already retired.
 
DRsohail said:
didu remmeber the oath taking incidence??
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The oath taking care incident was not his fault.

The players responsible for that i.e. MoYo, Kamran Akmal and Rana Maved are long gone.
 
ads101 said:
Good ODI player who underachieved for the majority of his career. The form from 2015 isn't a huge surprise, because he'd been doing this day in day out in domestic, especially success as a finisher. He just failed to replicate that in internationals.
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Not sure if the period from 2010-2015 would constitute the ”majority” of his career but his poor form in 2010 certainly led to his exclusion from the 2011 WC where he could have had a big impact.

Also, had he been recalled in 2014 instead of 2015 - he could have been amongst the runs since we played all of our games in Asia in 2014.
 
Bilal7 said:
A good LOI player. He still has time left so he can further improve his legacy and perhaps become Pakistan's Yuvraj/Symonds.
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His style is cool npletely different to that of Yuvraj and Symonds. Malik is an ideal no. 3 or 4 batsman who can acummulate fast. Lacks the destructive hitting prowess of Yuvraj and Symonds - esp against pacers.

However, Malik is more consistent than Yuvraj and Symonds.
 
A serviceable player who was good enough to be a part of playing eleven for the most part of his career.

Although there was a phase in his career when both his game and attitude were abject, his following traits are likeable.

-) Mentors youngsters
-) Has kept himself fit throughout his career
-) GOAT Pakistani runner between the wickets
-) Doesn't choke under pressure
-) India bashing
-) Didn't become a burden on test team
-) Has reinvented himself

Overall a good utility player but far from a Pakistani great (as of now) because he has his technical limitations and underachieved because of various reasons.
 
Pretty good in the first third of his career, rubbish in the middle, looking good now towards the end.
 
His best phase was under Bob Woolmer . Overall a decent limited overs player. No where near greats .
 
I think he’s majorly over achieved.
For someone with technical flaws against anything quicker then gentle medium pace you have to say that’s he’s done ok.

Legend of Pakistan cricket? Please don’t disrespect Pakistan Cricket and cricket in general.
 
Ironically one word comes to mind when I try to remember him. Forgettable.

As bang average as a player we've ever had. Could've been great, but underachieved massively. With the tripe we've had in the ODI side for the last 15 years, he was never bad enough to warrant true dislike.

His century against India in the CT is literally the only innings I can remember of his, and I've sat here for 5 mins trying to remember another excluding the last year or so.

Once he retires in 2019, he will be forgotten very soon (unless he does something special which he hasn't mustered in his last 15 years).

I don't dislike him. I don't like him. He's done nothing for me as an avid Pakistan Cricket follower since 1996.
 
Blitz said:
Ironically one word comes to mind when I try to remember him. Forgettable.

As bang average as a player we've ever had. Could've been great, but underachieved massively. With the tripe we've had in the ODI side for the last 15 years, he was never bad enough to warrant true dislike.

His century against India in the CT is literally the only innings I can remember of his, and I've sat here for 5 mins trying to remember another excluding the last year or so.

Once he retires in 2019, he will be forgotten very soon (unless he does something special which he hasn't mustered in his last 15 years).

I don't dislike him. I don't like him. He's done nothing for me as an avid Pakistan Cricket follower since 1996.
Click to expand...

Very true that only one hundred comes to mind. Someone like Babar Azam who has only been around for a couple of years has a few hundreds of note already like in Aus and consecutive hundreds against sl and wi as well as the world xi series.

Goes to show that Shoaib Malik is not a player for the big occasion.
 
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would have been a great captain, who would have helped out many youngsters... after imran khan, this dude has the eye for talent... he gave so many young sialkot/region area boys a chance to shine where no one else was... hence why sialkot dominated the t20 tournaments for a long stretch...

not a fan... but i dont mind having him... hafeez is a burden...
 
I wan't really a fan of his but I really think he is the ultimate team man.
 
A underachiever and a criminally misunderstood character.
 
A underachiever he has been great since his comeback and have really enjoyed watching him but before his comeback he was too inconsistent.
 
Malik has always been a mediocre player, got too many chances.

Never seen him perform against Australia, New Zealand, England
and South Africa. Can someone put his averages in ODI cricket against
these 4 teams.

He has always been a minnow basher or bashing teams with weak bowling
attacks. His average is improving because he is performing against Zimbabwe,
weakened West Indies and weakened Sri Lanka.
 
a lot depends on these next 2 years

if he continues like the player he has been over the last 2 years, he'll be a Pakistani LOI great

and more importantly, he'll be a prime example for generations to come of just how much a player can evolve- both with his cricket and his attitude
 
Malik was a jack of all trades who tried his hands at alot of gigs and never truly settled into one role, tried his hand at opening, tried being a finisher, tried being a no.3, an opener, an offspinner.

Malik has a soft underbelly which is existent from the numerous failures in big tournaments as a player. Has never been able to announce himself at the world stage because he is the KING of soft runs, but will never perform when it matters for his country (do or die matches, pressure situations) which is why he has always been behind Razzaq and Afridi in the all-rounder pecking order for Pakistan.

Credit to him for atleast identifying what he brings to the side since 2015, his power hitting ability will be crucial to an ODI side devoid of stroke makers, and the decline of Akmals has opened this avenue for him, which he is proving to deliver much better than the favorite batsmen of the decade.

He was known for his off the field collisions as well with alot of names, as a captain he used to politics to get his means but has finally realized he was never a born leader who brings his A game in the big games. He does have good mentoring abilities which is why alot of juniors look upto him. Not everyone can be a leader on the pitch, but you can lead the team by examples and he is a good example for the youngsters to follow.

His legacy is still yet to be decided in the 2019 world cup, maybe the new found stability he has brought in his approach can be beneficial to the team on the big stage where he has been a chronic failure.

His ability to face pace is still an issue, and that remains to seen how he will do in tougher conditions where he is facing express pace and bounce at 150kph his achilles heel.

15 years is a long time to identify who you are though.
 
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I think he was always underutilized by all the captain he could have a great allrounder but he was always send at no 6 and almost never was given the bowl.
He gets to bowl only 4 or 5 overs in the whole series. i think he is as good or even better bowler than hafeez because he can turn it pretty well. if he was given the bowl more frequently he could have 250 to 300 wickets by now.
He was send at 5 or 6 most of his career and if you see his career his best average is at 3 or 4. so, only if he was utilized to his potential he could have been one of the best allrounder.
 
Markhor said:
An ODI batting great with an average of 13 and 9 in England and New Zealand ?
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So what? Even Inzy and Yousuf were failures in SA and Australia.

Pakistan has not produced many ODI batting greats. Hafeez of all people will end his career with the most hundreds scored by a Pakistani batsman in ODIs.
 
batfirst said:
Malik has always been a mediocre player, got too many chances.

Never seen him perform against Australia, New Zealand, England
and South Africa. Can someone put his averages in ODI cricket against
these 4 teams.

He has always been a minnow basher or bashing teams with weak bowling
attacks. His average is improving because he is performing against Zimbabwe,
weakened West Indies and weakened Sri Lanka.
Click to expand...

Averages 49 in SA vs SA and overall 38. Not bad!
 
A guy who underachieved due to being bullied by the likes of some dirty minded seniors, who were meant to be respected but he went on to make his own decisions as a captain i.e selecting Abdul Razzak in the XI (where a major disagreement took place between him and the senior who was claimed as a captain too earlier) and giving Misbah a chance in the squad n his 30's where none supported him except for Moin Khan...

His decisions proved to be the best which provoked the rest even further and he had to face some embarrassing situations in the dressing room many times as could be seen by a video during a test match in the pavilion which I can't find out on youtube anymore...

His captaincy was the darkest part of his career, which he certainly regrets the most as it had a major impact on his after-captaincy career until he decided to comeback with a bang once the seniors had all left.
 
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super hitter said:
A guy who underachieved due to being bullied by the likes of some dirty minded seniors, who were meant to be respected but he went on to make his own decisions as a captain i.e selecting Abdul Razzak in the XI (where a major disagreement took place between him and the senior who was claimed as a captain too earlier) and giving Misbah a chance in the squad n his 30's where none supported him except for Moin Khan...

His decisions proved to be the best which provoked the rest even further and he had to face some embarrassing situations in the dressing room many times as could be seen by a video during a test match in the pavilion which I can't find out on youtube anymore...

His captaincy was the darkest part of his career, which he certainly regrets the most as it had a major impact on his after-captaincy career until he decided to comeback with a bang once the seniors had all left.
Click to expand...

yup its all the seniors fault..Otherwise Malik would have been the second coming of Imran khan..
 
the Great Khan said:
no babar azam is the best ODI player for us not him..he's lucky he's in the squad..thank God he remembered how to hold a bat..
Click to expand...

Babar might have better statistics , but he invariably needs someone at other end to take the initiative. He is similar to Jonathan Trott.
 
WengerOut said:
Babar might have better statistics , but he invariably needs someone at other end to take the initiative. He is similar to Jonathan Trott.
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lol..ok..Sultan Malik of Sialkot will have to learn how to play real pace bowling before being considered a great..oh wait thats not gonna happen..
 
A person who has played nearly 2 decades of international cricket and still hasn't scored a century a strong bowling attack;
 
super hitter said:
A guy who underachieved due to being bullied by the likes of some dirty minded seniors, who were meant to be respected but he went on to make his own decisions as a captain i.e selecting Abdul Razzak in the XI (where a major disagreement took place between him and the senior who was claimed as a captain too earlier) and giving Misbah a chance in the squad n his 30's where none supported him except for Moin Khan...


His decisions proved to be the best which provoked the rest even further and he had to face some embarrassing situations in the dressing room many times as could be seen by a video during a test match in the pavilion which I can't find out on youtube anymore...Your Taxi has been booked in our system, From HENDON WOOD LANE LONDON NW7 4HT To LONDON BOROUGH OF BRENT BRENT CIVIC CENTRE ENGINEERS WAY WEMBLEY HA9 0FJ For EMRAN at 10/11/2017 17:55 Fares: 25.00 GBP. Thank you for booking with Bittacy Cars 0208 349 1515

His captaincy was the darkest part of his career, which he certainly regrets the most as it had a major impact on his after-captaincy career until he decided to comeback with a bang once the seniors had all left.
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Alternate reality..
 
The_Odd_One said:
Averages 49 in SA vs SA and overall 38. Not bad!
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He averages 13 and 9 in England and New Zealand. what is his average in Australia?
The guy is a minnow basher. Has he scored a hundred against South Africa, England,
New Zealand and Australia?
 
Overall, one of the better LOI batsmen Pakistan has ever produced but he still underachieved for the most part. I don't think he was utilized properly for most of his career either as he should have batted #5 mostly. Instead he was batted in pretty much single position and you can clearly see his statistics suffered as a result. At the #5 spot, he has nearly a 40 average at a 90 SR which is very good. It's the ideal spot to use him as he can destroy spin and has the ability to bat quickly and even provide some power hitting.

He is playing that role so well now and who knows how things could have looked if he had done that his whole career.
 
Very good LOI player.

Where does he rank among the great Pakistani batsmen of alltime?

Abbas
Miandad
Inzy
Anwar
Yousuf
 
If Malik scores another 400 runs, he will end up in the top 5 highest run scorers of all time list for Pakistan in ODIs.

To be in a top 5 list of most runs is quite some achievement.

He also only needs to play about 7/8 T20Is to become the first player in the world to have capped 100 T20Is.

He is already Pakistan's all time highest T20 run getter.

From a mere statistical point of view, he is getting close to legendary status.

Having said that history will not remember him unless he scores heavily in the WC 2019.
 
Initially a promising off spinner who at the start of his career looked like a second coming of Saqlain Mushtaq converted to an average middle order batsman. I’d say his legacy is that he has set a precedent for good fitness standards in Pakistan. Overall an average player who has stayed on as there haven’t been better alternatives.

I’m surprised some people consider him a great for Pakistan. Our standards must be very low if that’s the case.
 
It is astonishing that this man's international career continues into its fourth decade. What is Shoaib Malik's legacy ? Being the poster boy of mediocrity and Pakistan's international cricketing decline.

Instead of blooding a young batsman, we instead wasted the last five years on this waste of space. After a little bit of minnow bashing in Asia, it's amazing to read these glowing tributes. His failure at the 2019 World Cup was sadly inevitable. If our seniority worshipping selectors bothered to look at Malik's record in SENA countries, it reads (AVG/SR):

ENG - 16/77
AUS - 31/66
NZL - 10/55
SAF - 39/73

The places where he failed, he failed miserably. And the country where he averages reasonably well, he scored at a pitiful SR.

Even away to other Asian countries, Malik's record is mediocre. His position in the team was secured for so many years because of some India bashing in the mid 2000s, where he averages 39 at SR of 85. But in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh his record reads 26/89 and 8/63 respectively !

When will this torture end ?
 
Story of Shoaib Malik can be summed up in the last few months of his T20 career:

Gets dropped for a tough series away in Australia where younger replacements struggle >>> Recalled for a home series against Bangladesh where he bashes a weak attack >>> Secures his place for T20 WC.

How can our team management after 20 years not see through this charade by now ?
 
Markhor said:
Story of Shoaib Malik can be summed up in the last few months of his T20 career:

Gets dropped for a tough series away in Australia where younger replacements struggle >>> Recalled for a home series against Bangladesh where he bashes a weak attack >>> Secures his place for T20 WC.

How can our team management after 20 years not see through this charade by now ?
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Well management was responsible for the charade more than malik. Should have sent him to Australia so he visibly fails and is taken out of the reckoning forever, but they didn’t. I still blame him for eating up a spot in the middle order during the world cup last year. Can’t believe he’s going to do the same thing for another world cup now.

In general I like Malik, I think he’s a smart guy, well spoken, has a good heart, and has leadership qualities. For these reasons I would much rather he retire gracefully and move on to coaching. His time as a player is up. Hafeez can fulfill the senior quota at the world t20. He can start helping kids be better than he was.
 
Markhor said:
Been waiting 21 years. But thanks for the detailed contribution.
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Yaar, was pulling your leg :D

Honestly speaking, I can understand the frustration you guys have had to and are still going through because of Malik and Hafeez. This is the same frustration we guys have had to go through for so long with our bowlers, specially in the 90's.
 
One of mediocrity tbh How he managed to hold onto an intl career of 20 years and a place in pakistans batting order with his limited output and skill will baffle generations to come
 
When you’re looking for an explanation as to why Pakistan underachieved in the last twenty years, just point your finger to Malik!
 
Good player of spin, average vs pace. Did well against India in 2000s in ODIs. Overall, a forgettable career.
 
As an all rounder in 2000s he was pretty decent and made a trio with Razzaq and Afridi, giving six bowling options and decent batting depth.

After he left his bowling unattended due to one reason or another he was okish with couple of good years with bat since that.

As a spin bowling all rounder there arent many with 7000+ runs and 150+ wickets but for Pak it wasnt too handy once he didnt pay much attention to his bowling as he always had limitations as a batsman.
 
A career that has had at least 10 years too many, and nothing to show. A terrible player of even poor fast bowling, and a very player of medium pacers.
 
Most gifted Pakistani LOI batsman of last 22 years.

His statistics and career was ruined by poor management and captains shuffling his position so much and never letting him settle.

If Shobby as he is lovingly called in India played for Bangladesh be would have scored 12,000 ODI runs at a batting average of 44 with 18 centuries and would have ended career as the GOAT Bangladeshi batsman
 
No matter what way you look at Malik definitely did not deserve to play the amount of matches that he has .

He has very mediocre stats sprinkled with some good knocks which would be expected in a 20 year career.

But it’s criminal that both him and Hafeez have played for Pakistan as long as they have . Their role as “seniors “ is very over rated as they have gone generally gone missing in the big tournaments.
 
At his peak good utility player - could afford one such player in LOI sides.
 
Okay, reading the numbers alone does not give his career a good viewing, these are pathetic numbers. Now, coming towards a legacy, no major performances in World Tournaments except for 2009 World guy has played about dozens of World tournaments. No major achievement in Test cricket, no major record in overseas conditions. Unfortunately the talent pool was so thin in Pakistan that he became the need of the hour. Guys like Mccullum, De Villiers and Clarke made their debut long after him and had better careers.
 
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