What is wrong with the liberals?

[BreadPakoda]

Quite often “liberals” have been accused of being hypocrites, superficial, and sometimes even a threat to the traditions and moral fabric of a society. What are your thoughts?

 

[sweep_shot]

My values are conservative although I vote Liberals in Canada due to strategic reasons (peer pressure and being a visible minority). I am a hardcore conservative in my native country (Bangladesh).

I think modern liberalism is quite radical and they basically try to shun anyone who has different views. It is why Trump basically won.

Liberals need to go back to classical liberalism or they need to embrace common sense liberalism.

 

[Abdul]

The same question can also be asked about conservatives who are a cancer to our society. Traditions can go to hell.

 

[sweep_shot]

 

[ElRaja]

liberalism has been hijacked by the new left. real liberalism is about living, let living and respecting each others property rights.

the modern left, contemporary liberalism, is all about identity politics, political correctness are curbing free speech and discussion.

 

[dildilpak]

The problem is that politics on both sides of the aisle has moved to the extremes - there is no center right or left anymore. Herein US we have people like Warren who in all probability will be a big disaster for the industry & markets with her high tax, extreme socialistic policies (read universal healthcare, open border, anti-business policies) & will drive the economy towards a recession. Personally know many liberals who are scared to vote for her & her ilk (including AOC)

I also see this as a generational divide - the millennials living in their parents basement are very aggressively agenda driven while the older generations are turning more & more right as they want to minimize the impact of the socialistic policies on their own lifestyles & their 401Ks.

 

[sweep_shot]

The problem is that politics on both sides of the aisle has moved to the extremes - there is no center right or left anymore. Herein US we have people like Warren who in all probability will be a big disaster for the industry & markets with her high tax, extreme socialistic policies (read universal healthcare, open border, anti-business policies) & will drive the economy towards a recession. Personally know many liberals who are scared to vote for her & her ilk (including AOC)

I also see this as a generational divide - the millennials living in their parents basement are very aggressively agenda driven while the older generations are turning more & more right as they want to minimize the impact of the socialistic policies on their own lifestyles & their 401Ks.

No worries. Psycho Warren is unlikely to get the nomination. It will probably be Biden.

Regarding young social justice warriors, they are quite irrelevant.

 

[Pakistanian]

The problem is that politics on both sides of the aisle has moved to the extremes - there is no center right or left anymore. Herein US we have people like Warren who in all probability will be a big disaster for the industry & markets with her high tax, extreme socialistic policies (read universal healthcare, open border, anti-business policies) & will drive the economy towards a recession. Personally know many liberals who are scared to vote for her & her ilk (including AOC)

I also see this as a generational divide - the millennials living in their parents basement are very aggressively agenda driven while the older generations are turning more & more right as they want to minimize the impact of the socialistic policies on their own lifestyles & their 401Ks.

Nah, we need universal healthcare. People that oppose medicare for all are far right lunatics. A few big corporations monopolizing a few industries is very bad for the economy in the long run, we need more worker rights, higher wages and billionaires paying their due share to the tax net.

 

[Pakistanian]

No worries. Psycho Warren is unlikely to get the nomination. It will probably be Biden.

Regarding young social justice warriors, they are quite irrelevant.

So Warren is a "psycho" for wanting what you already enjoy in Canada - Universal healthcare, cheaper pharmaceuticals, cheaper college tuition, higher minimum wage (which hasn't been raised since 2009)? Lol, the cold air must be messing with your head.

 

[sweep_shot]

So Warren is a "psycho" for wanting what you already enjoy in Canada - Universal healthcare, cheaper pharmaceuticals, cheaper college tuition, higher minimum wage (which hasn't been raised since 2009)? Lol, the cold air must be messing with your head.

I don't want Warren to win. Women are generally terrible leaders. Bernie is fine.

Biden is fine too (compared to Trump). Biden is realistic.

 

[razazaidi]

I don't want Warren to win. Women are generally terrible leaders. Bernie is fine.

Biden is fine too (compared to Trump). Biden is realistic.

What a clueless bloke. Not every woman is like Saikh Hasina.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

There’s a difference between a liberal and a leftist. Liberals are the people who support the likes of Obama and Hillary. They’re just as bad as conservatives

 

[marlonbrowndo]

I don't want Warren to win. Women are generally terrible leaders. Bernie is fine.

Biden is fine too (compared to Trump). Biden is realistic.

Bigot. Biden is just as bad as Trump and his supporters are also just as bad

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Warren is also pretty awful. It’s Bernie or nothing

 

[Farz]

I don't want Warren to win. Women are generally terrible leaders. Bernie is fine.

Biden is fine too (compared to Trump). Biden is realistic.

So, you don't Warren to win because you think women are terrible leaders, but you are okay with Biden? Same Biden who voted for Iraq War, advanced Bush's Iraq War agenda in Congress, and helped the government sell lies about Iraq and WMDs. You created a thread talking about how Islamic clerics are against Muslims joining militaries of western countries because the west is attacking Muslim countries. However, you think Biden is a fine candidate. It seems like labeling you clueless misogynist won't be wrong.

 

[Farz]

Warren is also pretty awful. It’s Bernie or nothing

Same here Bernie or nothing, but Warren is my second choice. Warren is still better than the rest of the corporate sellouts.

 

[sweep_shot]

So, you don't Warren to win because you think women are terrible leaders, but you are okay with Biden? Same Biden who voted for Iraq War, advanced Bush's Iraq War agenda in Congress, and helped the government sell lies about Iraq and WMDs. You created a thread talking about how Islamic clerics are against Muslims joining militaries of western countries because the west is attacking Muslim countries. However, you think Biden is a fine candidate. It seems like labeling you clueless misogynist won't be wrong.

You see, these politicians always support wars in Middle East. No politician is independent.

All are Zionist-controlled (including Warren and Biden).

Biden is experienced and he is gutsy like Trump. Warren would probably be eaten alive by Trump.

 

[sweep_shot]

So, you don't Warren to win because you think women are terrible leaders, but you are okay with Biden? Same Biden who voted for Iraq War, advanced Bush's Iraq War agenda in Congress, and helped the government sell lies about Iraq and WMDs. You created a thread talking about how Islamic clerics are against Muslims joining militaries of western countries because the west is attacking Muslim countries. However, you think Biden is a fine candidate. It seems like labeling you clueless misogynist won't be wrong.

Also, the reason why I am supporting Biden is because Trump is far worse for Muslims than Biden.

I also think that Biden and Sanders are the only guys who can realistically defeat Trump. Warren is too soft.

 

[Pakistanian]

You see, these politicians always support wars in Middle East. No politician is independent.

All are Zionist-controlled (including Warren and Biden).

Biden is experienced and he is gutsy like Trump. Warren would probably be eaten alive by Trump.

Biden will alienate progressives. Biden isn't gutsy lmaoo, he's a terrible speaker and he's shown clear signs of cognitive decline possibly because of his age, he's usually dazed and confused and takes discussions to different tangents. Biden is literally a gaffe machine, every other week he puts his foot in his mouth saying something he "Didn't really mean". I'd even take John Kerry over Biden if he were running.

 

[Farz]

You see, these politicians always support wars in Middle East. No politician is independent.

All are Zionist-controlled (including Warren and Biden).

Biden is experienced and he is gutsy like Trump. Warren would probably be eaten alive by Trump.

I guess the whole world is controlled by Zionists except Muslims. Come on now, I get it politicians take money from corporates and PACs, but these zionist control conspiracies are just getting old. Bringing zionists in every debate/argument doesn't help anyone.

Biden is experienced, Democrats said the same about Hilary. And we ended up with Trump.

Biden gutsy like Trump? Have you watched any of the Democratic debates? Biden has hard time putting together two sentences whenever tough questions are thrown at him. Just watch how he fumbled on racial segregation question. And don't forget about the Ukraine baggage that is hanging on Biden's head. This won't be an issue in Democratic debates, but Trump will make big deal out of this during General election debates.

I agree Trump will trouble Warren on her screw up of Native American heritage, but Biden carries just as much baggage if not more.

 

[Pakistanian]

Warren is also pretty awful. It’s Bernie or nothing

I been a BernieBro since the last election however Warren is a distant second and she really isn't that bad, progressives should back Bernie first and then Warren if she wins the ticket.

 

[Farz]

Also, the reason why I am supporting Biden is that Trump is far worse for Muslims than Biden.

I also think that Biden and Sanders are the only guys who can realistically defeat Trump. Warren is too soft.

That can be a valid reason for not wanting Warran, she has turned soft on some of her policies. But your earlier comment, that Warran is a bad candidate because women are terrible leaders, was silly.

 

[Pakistanian]

There’s a difference between a liberal and a leftist. Liberals are the people who support the likes of Obama and Hillary. They’re just as bad as conservatives

Actually leftists are liberals, the word you're looking for is 'progressives'. Obama/Clinton supporters are called centrists and don't actually support liberal policies like Medicare4All, Free college and other social programs. I'd liken centrists to so called "Pakistani liberals", they support social liberalism but not fiscal liberalism like most of them wouldn't want to pay more taxes to eradicate Pakistan's widespread poverty.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Bernie is the only hope for the US. In my view a country is not a developed country if they don't have free health care. I saw the other day that out of 33 developed countries only 1 doesn't have free health care and that was the US. People who say free or subsidized tuition fees, free health care and increased minimum wage is far left and socialist are absolutely clueless. Literally every developed country has these things except the US.

Many people in the US like to call NZ a socialist country that has too much tax. The other day I found out the top tax bracket in the US is 42%, compared to 39% in NZ. So you guys end up paying more tax but get less benefits than us. You spend all your money on these useless wars.

Bernie wants to turn the USA into any other developed country that don't have homeless people, don't have to pay thousands on healthcare and medicines and don't have students with huge debts due to high tuition fees and interest on student loans. He also wants to stop the US's involvement in all wars. What's the problem with him then?

 

[Robert]

Quite often “liberals” have been accused of being hypocrites, superficial, and sometimes even a threat to the traditions and moral fabric of a society. What are your thoughts?

The true liberal seeks to tear down any tradition or structure which disempowers the people by concentrating power in the hands of an establishment elite.

It is a separate tradition from capitalism or socialism. Though rooted in the capitalist model and for free enterprise, it seeks to break down monopolies and encourage a capitalism which serves the people not just the capitalists.

A modern British liberal would be for a mixed economy where nationalisation of some sectors is acceptable (where the people benefit) while business is encouraged to pursue the triple bottom line (profit, planet, people) and policy instruments to promote mutuals and coperatives are in place, to bring the profit closer to the people in services they actually use.

 

[Robert]

Actually leftists are liberals, the word you're looking for is 'progressives'. Obama/Clinton supporters are called centrists and don't actually support liberal policies like Medicare4All, Free college and other social programs. I'd liken centrists to so called "Pakistani liberals", they support social liberalism but not fiscal liberalism like most of them wouldn't want to pay more taxes to eradicate Pakistan's widespread poverty.

There are left (social) and right (fiscal) liberals.

 

[CricketCartoons]

It is easy to liberal when it doesn't affect you. Wonder how many liberals will support immigration in which the new immigrants directly compete for their jobs.

 

[dildilpak]

Nah, we need universal healthcare. People that oppose medicare for all are far right lunatics. A few big corporations monopolizing a few industries is very bad for the economy in the long run, we need more worker rights, higher wages and billionaires paying their due share to the tax net.

The effective tax rate in America is already 35%, how much more do you want people to pay for others to enjoy freebies? I am against Universal healthcare, but that doesnt mean the healthcare industry doesn’t need a course correction - the monopoly of big pharma & the consequent prices of drugs for one.

Already the US debt is through the roof, recession is around the corner & people want to add more to the debt by piling on Universal Healthcare? Gimme a break.

 

[Pakistanian]

The effective tax rate in America is already 35%, how much more do you want people to pay for others to enjoy freebies? I am against Universal healthcare, but that doesnt mean the healthcare industry doesn’t need a course correction - the monopoly of big pharma & the consequent prices of drugs for one.

Already the US debt is through the roof, recession is around the corner & people want to add more to the debt by piling on Universal Healthcare? Gimme a break.

There are corporations like Amazon and IBM paying like 0% in income tax. I'm guessing you're a doctor or your parents are so you're trying to protect your wallet but Bernie and the progressives are trying to raise taxes on super rich, we're talking billionaires and multimillionaires not your regular desi doctor or businessowner. You're not special, you guys are small fish in the grand scheme so it's hilarious how you think progressives are after people like you. And yeah we need universal healthcare like every other developed country, a single payer system funded by taxes on the super rich.

 

[dildilpak]

There are corporations like Amazon and IBM paying like 0% in income tax. I'm guessing you're a doctor or your parents are so you're trying to protect your wallet but Bernie and the progressives are trying to raise taxes on super rich, we're talking billionaires and multimillionaires not your regular desi doctor or businessowner. You're not special, you guys are small fish in the grand scheme so it's hilarious how you think progressives are after people like you. And yeah we need universal healthcare like every other developed country, a single payer system funded by taxes on the super rich.

Good at making assumptions are we now? I am not a doctor, but a banker. And right now America is the only bright spot in the world economy thanks to the republican tax reforms - every of those other developed economy you are talking about is going through a financial crisis - be it Germany, England, Europe, China, Australia etc. You think the billionaires will stay & pay higher taxes if the tax bill goes up to fund universal healthcare- haven’t you heard about tax-havens & flight of capital?

 

[Pakistanian]

Good at making assumptions are we now? I am not a doctor, but a banker. And right now America is the only bright spot in the world economy thanks to the republican tax reforms - every of those other developed economy you are talking about is going through a financial crisis - be it Germany, England, Europe, China, Australia etc. You think the billionaires will stay & pay higher taxes if the tax bill goes up to fund universal healthcare- haven’t you heard about tax-havens & flight of capital?

A banker with no understanding with how the economy works lmaoo, Trumps tax relief for the rich isn't the reason why the economy is doing well, it's because of policies set in place during the Obama admin. And yeah we should shut down those tax havens, I'm in college and we learn all about it. Jeff Bezos has trillions of dollars stashed away in offshore bank accounts to evade taxes. All of these billionaires need to be held to account.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/11/trumps-economic-falsehoods/

 

[dildilpak]

A banker with no understanding with how the economy works lmaoo, Trumps tax relief for the rich isn't the reason why the economy is doing well, it's because of policies set in place during the Obama admin. And yeah we should shut down those tax havens, I'm in college and we learn all about it. Jeff Bezos has trillions of dollars stashed away in offshore bank accounts to evade taxes. All of these billionaires need to be held to account.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/11/trumps-economic-falsehoods/

Ooh Obama policies, yeah right! And i figured you are a student, the lack of practical world knowledge is palpable

 

[Pakistanian]

Ooh Obama policies, yeah right! And i figured you are a student, the lack of practical world knowledge is palpable

Trumps tax policies are exactly that of Bush and Reagan, so it's hilarious that you think that the economy is doing well because of policies he copied from two former Presidents that had disastrous economies.

 

[JaDed]

America has more than 300 million people with different heritage , socialist policies of other countries can’t be generalized here.

Look at what is happening is Canada Wexit is trending because of Quebec taking dig on Alberta and for first time Alberta and Saskatchewan have people asking to leave the confederate much more in % than Quebec.
And Canada has only 34 Million people.

America is great only till Corporations live on and immigrants like Musk keep coming.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Those who proclaim themselves “socialists” are usually depressing, have no sense of humor & attended an expensive college. Fate loves irony.</p>— Buff Mage (@elonmusk) <a href="https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1007752686878388224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 15, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[JaDed]

America has more than 300 million people with different heritage , socialist policies of other countries can’t be generalized here.

Look at what is happening is Canada Wexit is trending because of Quebec taking dig on Alberta and for first time Alberta and Saskatchewan have people asking to leave the confederate much more in % than Quebec.
And Canada has only 34 Million people.

America is great only till Corporations live on and immigrants like Musk keep coming.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Those who proclaim themselves “socialists” are usually depressing, have no sense of humor & attended an expensive college. Fate loves irony.</p>— Buff Mage (@elonmusk) <a href="https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1007752686878388224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 15, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

There needs to be a middle approach..but not to an extent leftists want

 

[Farz]

The effective tax rate in America is already 35%, how much more do you want people to pay for others to enjoy freebies? I am against Universal healthcare, but that doesnt mean the healthcare industry doesn’t need a course correction - the monopoly of big pharma & the consequent prices of drugs for one.

Already the US debt is through the roof, recession is around the corner & people want to add more to the debt by piling on Universal Healthcare? Gimme a break.

Effective tax rate of 35%? Incorrect. 2018 top tax rate was 37%. Effective tax rates were much lower for the top 10% (and especially the top 1%) due to very favorable long capital gains and dividend tax rates. These taxes were lowered even more under Trump's tax plan. Let's take Warren Buffet as an example, his total income in 2016 was $11.6 million, and he paid $1.85 million in taxes. His effective tax rate was 16%, and I am pretty sure his effective tax rate was even lower in 2018. He is on record saying, his effective tax rate is lower than the effective tax rate of his secretary. Fun fact Buffets' net worth went up by almost $12 billion in 2016, on which he paid no taxes as these were unrealized gains.

The top corporate tax rate was 35% in the Obama era, most corporations paid effective tax rates of approx. 21%. Trump lowered the top rate to 21% and the effective rate has probably gone down to low teens. Many corporations like Amazon paid $0 in taxes.

Let's talk about freebies, Carrier announced plans to move jobs to Mexico and layoff 1400 Indiana employees in (late) 2016. Trump announced he saved 1100 jobs and Carrier got $7 million in tax breaks. Fast forward to July 2017, Carrier laid off 338 manufacturing workers and laid off 215 more in January 2018. They got a freebie of $7 million and still moved jobs out of Indiana. You have problem with universal health care in the US, but no problems with socialism that corporates enjoy in the United States.

The same old republican talking point, debt is through the roof that's why we can't afford single payer healthcare system in America. However, they forget debt is through the roof when setting military budgets or when sending more and more troops to the Middle East.

Give me $6 trillion spent on meaningless wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, and Lybia and the lives of almost 500,000 innocents in affected countries, and progressives will stop talking about "freebies" that can help everyday Americans.

 

[Farz]

There needs to be a middle approach..but not to an extent leftists want

Democratic party rigged the 2016 primaries to try the so called "middle approach" and lost to Trump.

 

[JaDed]

Democratic party rigged the 2016 primaries to try the so called "middle approach" and lost to Trump.

Nope they went for shady White leaders similar to Biden.
Middle is obama.