"When we say Jammu and Kashmir, it includes Pak-Occupied Kashmir" : Amit Shah to Opposition

[MenInG]

"When we say Jammu and Kashmir, it includes Pak-Occupied Kashmir" : Amit Shah to Opposition

Jammu and Kashmir is an integral part of India and it includes PoK (Pakistan-occupied Kashmir), Home Minister Amit Shah said today as he addressed the Lok Sabha on the tectonic move to end special status for Jammu and Kashmir under Article 370 and to bifurcate the state into two union territories.
"This is not a political move... Parliament has full powers to make laws for the entire country.... The constitution of India and the constitution of Jammu and Kashmir both allow for this to be done," Amit Shah said as Congress members interrupted him with their protests.

"Kashmir is an integral part of India. I want to make it absolutely clear that every single time we say Jammu and Kashmir, it includes Pak-Occupied Kashmir (including Gilgit-Baltistan) as well as Aksai Chin. Let there be no doubt over it. Entire Jammu and Kashmir is an integral part of the Union of India," the Home Minister said.

He was responding to Congress leader Adhir Ranjan Chowdhury's charge that the government violated rules by turning Jammu and Kashmir into a union territory. The Congress lawmaker, awkwardly for his party, also appeared to suggest that the changes in Jammu and Kashmir's status were not an internal matter.

"I don't think you are thinking about PoK, you violated all rules and converted a state into a union territory overnight," Mr Chowdhury said, Sonia Gandhi seated by his side.

"I want to know. You say it's an internal matter. But it is being monitored since 1948 by the UN, is that an internal matter? We signed the Shimla Agreement and Lahore Declaration, was that an internal matter or bilateral? Can J&K be an internal matter considering previous bilateral agreements between India and Pakistan, "he questioned.

"I want to be enlightened by you. Congress party wants to be enlightened. It is a fundamental question," Mr Chowdhury said.

Amit Shah retorted that there should be no doubt that Jammu and Kashmir was an inseparable part of India and wondered if the Congress leader thought it was not an internal matter of India. "Kashmir ki seema mein PoK bhi aata hai... Jaan de denge iske liye! (PoK also falls within Kashmir. We will give up our lives for it)," he shot back.

The Home Minister also took a dig at the Congress's apparent divide within on Article 370, asking the party to clarify whether it was in favour of the government's Kashmir move or against it.

On Monday, the bill to reorganise Jammu and Kashmir into two union territories cruised through the Rajya Sabha - where the government is short of a majority - with several opposition parties walking out and others siding with the government, like Mayawati's Bahujan Samaj Party, Naveen Patnaik's Biju Janata Dal, Jagan Mohan Reddy's YSR Congress, N Chandrababu Naidu's Telugu Desam Party and Arvind Kejriwal's Aam Aadmi Party.

The Congress was among the opposition parties who argued against the move even though some of its leaders appeared to contradict the party line and support the government's decision outside parliament.

This morning, as Congress lawmakers met with Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi to firm up the party line and present a united front, they were told to oppose the move. Former Congress president Sonia Gandhi, asked whether the party should support or oppose the move, reportedly said: "We will oppose it and our opposition is based on the manner in which the people of Jammu and Kashmir, the state assembly, have not been consulted."

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/art...h-hits-back-at-o-2080920?pfrom=home-topscroll

 

[MenInG]

some veiled threats there it seems

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

some veiled threats there it seems

I read it as self-confessed impotence.

If Azad Kashmir is really an integral part of India, then it shows extreme weakness to have left it in the hands of Pakistan for the best part of a century.

 

[pakistani pride]

some veiled threats there it seems

These jokers should stop talking all the time. Who stopped them for 70 plus years?

 

[xbronze]

I read it as self-confessed impotence.

If Azad Kashmir is really an integral part of India, then it shows extreme weakness to have left it in the hands of Pakistan for the best part of a century.

Totally agree with you. But that is because for the most part of a century we have spineless gutless sell outs of the Congress party running India (much like you have had sellouts running Pakistan for most of your existence).

Finally Indians are giving another party a chance only because of the sheer humiliation India had to go through. Terrorist attack after terrorist attack by 'non state' actors from Pakistan. Most Indians are so sick and humiliated by the humiliating terror attacks over the last 30+ years, that now Indians just don't care what ever needs to be done.

For instance, most Indians never ever cared about POK. But because of the unending relentless terror attacks by the 'non state' terrorists from Pakistan, now Indians are going to the other extreme, and have now begun dreaming of integrating POK into India. In other words, Indian psyche has now gone to the other extreme (from being spineless under decades of Congress government rule).

 

[Candyman]

I read it as self-confessed impotence.

If Azad Kashmir is really an integral part of India, then it shows extreme weakness to have left it in the hands of Pakistan for the best part of a century.

India doesn't really care about Azad Kashmir.
It has zero strategical importance. We are happy with the Kashmir we have , which is way more resourceful and vital in south Asian landscape.

And "impotence" should be the last word that should come from a Pakistani mouth that too about the Indian army. No explanation needed.

 

[Pete Rose]

Totally agree with you. But that is because for the most part of a century we have spineless gutless sell outs of the Congress party running India (much like you have had sellouts running Pakistan for most of your existence).

Finally Indians are giving another party a chance only because of the sheer humiliation India had to go through. Terrorist attack after terrorist attack by 'non state' actors from Pakistan. Most Indians are so sick and humiliated by the humiliating terror attacks over the last 30+ years, that now Indians just don't care what ever needs to be done.

For instance, most Indians never ever cared about POK. But because of the unending relentless terror attacks by the 'non state' terrorists from Pakistan, now Indians are going to the other extreme, and have now begun dreaming of integrating POK into India. In other words, Indian psyche has now gone to the other extreme (from being spineless under decades of Congress government rule).

Oh bhai, figure out which part of this deranged lunacy you believe in first. Your own sorry media has been reporting that infiltration has been at historical lows this year

 

[Slog]

India doesn't really care about Azad Kashmir.
It has zero strategical importance. We are happy with the Kashmir we have , which is way more resourceful and vital in south Asian landscape.

And "impotence" should be the last word that should come from a Pakistani mouth that too about the Indian army. No explanation needed.

Picture of Abhinandan and how he was paraded like a mule comes to mind when I think of the word Impotence

 

[xbronze]

Picture of Abhinandan and how he was paraded like a mule comes to mind when I think of the word Impotence

Friend, people like you and me, are keyboard warriors, typing away and sipping tea. Lets give the real warrior like Abhinandan and the many Pakistani Abhinandan's who have the courage to wear the uniform and put their life on the line for their respective country.

Think about it, soldiers from both nations also could have chosen to sit at home and play video games. Instead they do the daring stuff for their nation. Sometimes they get captured like it happened to Abhinandan, and to the 90000+ Pakistani POWs in 1971. But they were all courageous selfless people who did their best for their nation.

When you think of them, you visualize mules. When I think of them, I think of them as heroes regardless of if they are Pakistani or Indian.

 

[Candyman]

Picture of Abhinandan and how he was paraded like a mule comes to mind when I think of the word Impotence

May be for you.

But for me , Pak army not collecting the dead bodies of their own soldiers after getting whooped in Kargil , losing half their country and surrendering in unprecedented numbers in 1971 defines impotence.

 

[xbronze]

Oh bhai, figure out which part of this deranged lunacy you believe in first. Your own sorry media has been reporting that infiltration has been at historical lows this year

Friend [MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION], dont shoot the messenger. I am just conveying to you what I feel is behind the subtle shift in Indian mentality with respect to Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

 

[szundercover]

Friend, people like you and me, are keyboard warriors, typing away and sipping tea. Lets give the real warrior like Abhinandan and the many Pakistani Abhinandan's who have the courage to wear the uniform and put their life on the line for their respective country.

Think about it, soldiers from both nations also could have chosen to sit at home and play video games. Instead they do the daring stuff for their nation. Sometimes they get captured like it happened to Abhinandan, and to the 90000+ Pakistani POWs in 1971. But they were all courageous selfless people who did their best for their nation.

When you think of them, you visualize mules. When I think of them, I think of them as heroes regardless of if they are Pakistani or Indian.

90,000 pow figures is a lie.The actual number was 45,000.Get your facts straight.

 

[Pete Rose]

Friend [MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION], dont shoot the messenger. I am just conveying to you what I feel is behind the subtle shift in Indian mentality with respect to Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

You misunderstood, I am not calling you out for deranged lunacy. I am calling out the thinking as lunacy. It’s not grounded on facts (ie sick and tired of terrorism blah blah).

I read some of the comments on this thread (and I didn’t hear Amit ji’s address, so hopefully you can help me out there)…what is the reason for this move:
Is it just to improve governance and prosperity for the ppl of Kashmir
Is it to address an already muted militancy
Is it to Hindu pandering related to the Pandits displacement

Personally, I have always liked big and bold changes - this is a big change. I think if it leads to material changes for Kashmiris in terms of development and accountability it is great. India could even organize an international investors conference and have a few friendly Muslim countries like the UAE come in and bid on tourism development projects. The state will have its own legislature and CM, so theoretically there’s a lot of good here.
But I think the way this is done: with a heavy handed display of troops coming in, shutting down the valley, and then really coming amidst this their policy changes like the triple Talaq bill, Ayodhya Temple rebuild: it all seems menacing when viewed as a minority.
So, of course, the average India is more well placed to speak on their country, but I think for Pakistanis who are invested in this issue, their job is to highlight the potential risks. We will know in a year or two how this move plays out.

 

[Hamza_]

Amit Shah or whoever he is has lost his mind.

Just like plenty others from Indian Politics.

 

[MP2011]

Oh bhai, figure out which part of this deranged lunacy you believe in first. Your own sorry media has been reporting that infiltration has been at historical lows this year

He seems to be newly minted Modi stooge, what else will you expect from him.

Lol at nobody in India bothered about PoK before these 2 Gujarati thugs. He was perhaps born after PVN's term as Indian PM.

 

[MP2011]

Totally agree with you. But that is because for the most part of a century we have spineless gutless sell outs of the Congress party running India (much like you have had sellouts running Pakistan for most of your existence).

Finally Indians are giving another party a chance only because of the sheer humiliation India had to go through. Terrorist attack after terrorist attack by 'non state' actors from Pakistan. Most Indians are so sick and humiliated by the humiliating terror attacks over the last 30+ years, that now Indians just don't care what ever needs to be done.

For instance, most Indians never ever cared about POK. But because of the unending relentless terror attacks by the 'non state' terrorists from Pakistan, now Indians are going to the other extreme, and have now begun dreaming of integrating POK into India. In other words, Indian psyche has now gone to the other extreme (from being spineless under decades of Congress government rule).

Lol at this new found 'confidence' under these mass murderers.

Just can't stop laughing at whatever rubbish you uttered above. You seem to belong to tribe of keyboard warriors who knows nothing about anything just like your fellow kacha dharis.

 

[MP2011]

Gullibility of the highest order being the hallmark of Sanghis and their stooges are no different.

 

[msaaim89]

India doesn't really care about Azad Kashmir.

Did you read the first post? Your leadership seems to think otherwise.

 

[rhony]

Did you read the first post? Your leadership seems to think otherwise.

They will keep claiming it but it's just a rhetoric.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Totally agree with you. But that is because for the most part of a century we have spineless gutless sell outs of the Congress party running India (much like you have had sellouts running Pakistan for most of your existence).

Finally Indians are giving another party a chance only because of the sheer humiliation India had to go through. Terrorist attack after terrorist attack by 'non state' actors from Pakistan. Most Indians are so sick and humiliated by the humiliating terror attacks over the last 30+ years, that now Indians just don't care what ever needs to be done.

For instance, most Indians never ever cared about POK. But because of the unending relentless terror attacks by the 'non state' terrorists from Pakistan, now Indians are going to the other extreme, and have now begun dreaming of integrating POK into India. In other words, Indian psyche has now gone to the other extreme (from being spineless under decades of Congress government rule).

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think your BJP hindutva heroes will deliver Azad Kashmir any more effectively than your 'gutless' Congress party did. This is all just big talk to sooth fragile egos.

My dear friend, you have still not even been able to reclaim the demolished Babri Masjid and build a temple there and you are talking about taking a whole country? What planet are you living on?

 

[Candyman]

My dear friend, you have still not even been able to reclaim the demolished Babri Masjid and build a temple there and you are talking about taking a whole country? What planet are you living on?

Where did Babri come in this ?

India can build a temple over Babri in a month without breaking a sweat. But we are a nation, which actually respect the emotions of minorities. Don't take it for incapability.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I made a thread on this but all Indians were fooling themselves claiming they dont care about Azad Kashmir.

They care a lot but being a cowardly army they would rather harras, attack, detain, control civillians rather than trying to 'liberate' the land which has been in another hands for decades.

I'd be embarrased if I was Indian.

 

[Usman Chadda]

This is a rubbish rhetoric. India has more or less accepted the LoC as an international border with yesterday's actions.

 

[Thomaskutty]

I made a thread on this but all Indians were fooling themselves claiming they dont care about Azad Kashmir.

They care a lot but being a cowardly army they would rather harras, attack, detain, control civillians rather than trying to 'liberate' the land which has been in another hands for decades.

I'd be embarrased if I was Indian.

Indians simply don't care about PoK. They are more interested in developing their own country and economy, whereas for some odd and unrecognizable reason, Pakistan's raison d'etre and self worth is derived from what happens in J&K.

It think that's sad but it is what is.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Where did Babri come in this ?

India can build a temple over Babri in a month without breaking a sweat. But we are a nation, which actually respect the emotions of minorities. Don't take it for incapability.

When people promise one thing then don't deliver, I will tend to take it as incapability. Of course you might want to salve your ego by calling it respecting minorities, but then you wouldn't have demolished their places of worship in the first place.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Indians simply don't care about PoK. They are more interested in developing their own country and economy, whereas for some odd and unrecognizable reason, Pakistan's raison d'etre and self worth is derived from what happens in J&K.

It think that's sad but it is what is.

Where is the mass toilet factory? Cant see much devolpment there and with hundreds of millions in poverty, man will reach the next galaxy before things change for the better for the most.

India doesn't have the courage to take back what another nation has occupied for 70 years. If there were no Pak army you would have tried and you know this.

 

[Akki malhotra]

People daring BJP to do this and saying that why could not take it in 70 years, need to understand out of 70 years, most of the time it's only congress who has ruled india.
BJP hardly has ruled India. Give these guys 20-25 years more to review the things. Between personally I dnt mind borders at present to be taken as permanent and solve the issue permanently.

 

[daytrader]

Totally agree with you. But that is because for the most part of a century we have spineless gutless sell outs of the Congress party running India (much like you have had sellouts running Pakistan for most of your existence).

Finally Indians are giving another party a chance only because of the sheer humiliation India had to go through. Terrorist attack after terrorist attack by 'non state' actors from Pakistan. Most Indians are so sick and humiliated by the humiliating terror attacks over the last 30+ years, that now Indians just don't care what ever needs to be done.

For instance, most Indians never ever cared about POK. But because of the unending relentless terror attacks by the 'non state' terrorists from Pakistan, now Indians are going to the other extreme, and have now begun dreaming of integrating POK into India. In other words, Indian psyche has now gone to the other extreme (from being spineless under decades of Congress government rule).

What 'non-state' terrorist attacks are you referring to that had a Pakistani hand in it? How many can you count that you're so 'humiliated'??

 

[daytrader]

Indians simply don't care about PoK. They are more interested in developing their own country and economy, whereas for some odd and unrecognizable reason, Pakistan's raison d'etre and self worth is derived from what happens in J&K.

It think that's sad but it is what is.

It's the other way around, Indians are obsessed with Pakistan. One reason behind that could be is that since India is a Union of States, you need a common enemy to stay united. Your government and media is feeding you hate against Muslims and Pakistan for your own survival.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

People daring BJP to do this and saying that why could not take it in 70 years, need to understand out of 70 years, most of the time it's only congress who has ruled india.
BJP hardly has ruled India. Give these guys 20-25 years more to review the things. Between personally I dnt mind borders at present to be taken as permanent and solve the issue permanently.

LOL. This is the problem with you guys, you talk big at the start of the sentence then by the end of it you have done a 180 degree u-turn.

"Yes, Yes! We can thrash you in the war, oh yes sir indeed, one thousand times YES!!!"

"But we don't want to actually. Maybe next time, bye bye.."

 

[Sachin136]

LOL. This is the problem with you guys, you talk big at the start of the sentence then by the end of it you have done a 180 degree u-turn.

"Yes, Yes! We can thrash you in the war, oh yes sir indeed, one thousand times YES!!!"

"But we don't want to actually. Maybe next time, bye bye.."

...Are you forgetting that your home country has lost every single war in their history against India?

 

[Greenstorm]

LOL. This is the problem with you guys, you talk big at the start of the sentence then by the end of it you have done a 180 degree u-turn.

"Yes, Yes! We can thrash you in the war, oh yes sir indeed, one thousand times YES!!!"

"But we don't want to actually. Maybe next time, bye bye.."

Their reasoning generally is that as India is an economic powerhouse, it will lose out a lot by engaging in war on Azad Kashmir. One might think what is the use of all that economic might if you cannot take back an 'integral' part of yours from a small country like Pakistan.

 

[Lonewarrior]

sir, its just a cake walk. i suggest you to take it .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Their reasoning generally is that as India is an economic powerhouse, it will lose out a lot by engaging in war on Azad Kashmir. One might think what is the use of all that economic might if you cannot take back an 'integral' part of yours from a small country like Pakistan.

Their answer is to claim they won every war despite never taking an inch of territory which they keep claiming as their own. Cue the references to 1971 or Kargil where they had to go begging to Clinton to tell Pakistan to back off.