Bewal Express
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As i said, many of our Ind friends are trying to rewrite history because some of them didnt like some of his comments.
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Where would Michael Holding rank in the pantheon of great fast bowlers?
- Thread starter Harsh Thakor
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As i said, many of our Ind friends are trying to rewrite history because some of them didnt like some of his comments.
Bewal Express
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The top 10 is really a top 12-15, if that makes sense and he is def in that. For me
Marshall
Mcgrath
Lillee
Donald
IK
Steyn
Ambrose
Akram
Holding
Garner
Hadlee
Sylvester Clark
Waqar
all these guys are top 10 bowlers even if there more than 10 in that list.
ManFan
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Sylvester Clarke?
Two things.Per [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] he was bowling closer to 160K's not 140Ks
I think we all know that the most accurate speed measurements ever taken were in the 1975-76 Australia v West Indies Test.
We know this because they used the 500 frames per second Photo-Sonics camera, rather than modern 25 frames per second cameras which are precisely 20 times less accurate.
Thommo was recorded at between
151K and 160.45K that day.
Michael Holding was a rookie in his first series, and measured 148.54K.
We all know - ask Sunil Gavaskar - that he gained around 10K in speed over the next year, and operated at roughly 143-160K between 1976 and 1983.
To answer the OP, Holding was great only because of his speed, height and accuracy. He obtained little or no swing or seam movement most of the time.
But if you watch his legendary over to Geoff Boycott in 80-81, you see just how much quicker and more lethal he was than any current bowler.
For those who haven’t seen it, here is Holding’s over to Boycott at Barbados in 80-81.
The footage misses the third ball hitting a glancing blow to the chin, the fourth ball hitting him on the thigh and th Fifth ball being fenced at and missed outside off-stump.
The footage misses the third ball hitting a glancing blow to the chin, the fourth ball hitting him on the thigh and th Fifth ball being fenced at and missed outside off-stump.
so you want to discuss this topic now or you going to run away like always the moment things become difficult for you to prove? decide and let me know
Bewal Express
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An absolute brute. Never really fitted into the Clive Lloyd team and his record was quite modest and then he took the money and went to apartheid South Africa.
Varun
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Won't be able to do any of that today.
Should thank his lucky stars he was born in 1954 and not 1984.
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So now its Holdings fault that he was born in a different era?
Varun
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Not at all - it's just circumstance.
The argument that today's batsmen won't stand a chance against yesteryear's bowlers is repeated ad-nauseum. So it's only fair that the converse is also true.
Especially when a video is presented where he is using a cricket ball to hit the batsman's head, toes, etc. etc. Not what you see on TV today.
Dr_Bassim
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Per [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] he was bowling closer to 160K's not 140Ks
Per the youtube video [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has shown here's the top comment.
"I was there at Kensington that day, and believe me, if you think he was medium-fast, you have no idea what you are talking about. That first over, I never saw the ball. The reaction of the crowd was magic, because it was the first time he'd bowled in the Oval. Silence, he'd bowl, Boycott would look totally lost, then the crowd would go nuts. You can't see it from the video, but he clean-bowled him with the last ball, and the stump went pinwheeling past the wicket-keeper."
So either the people who were there that day are miscalculating or he was fast.
I just don't know what to believe anymore.
Robert
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Hmm, I would always put Hadlee behind Marshall and probably behind Imran too. It was revealing to see Marshall and Hadlee take the new ball for MCC in the Bicentennary match. The Bajan made the Kiwi look ordinary.
Robert
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One of the great moments in cricket history, that.
That's a joke right? Garner played in Pakistan and took wots at 20 a piece. Holding on the other hand never played against Pakistan and I mean not just in Pakistan but overall he never played against Pakistan.
Infact Garner averaged less than 25 in every country whereas holding averaged around 40 in NZ, so holding never proved himself in NZ.
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jeeteshssaxena
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You've mentioned this many times but don't you thinkk it could have been an off day for richard hadlee.
No.
Hadlee was superb, but Marshall was quicker, swung it later and got just as much seam deviation.
Hadlee was an ATG, but Marshall was by far the greatest Test bowler of all time.
Robert
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I saw a lot of Hadlee. He didn't have off-days. He was remarkably consistent.
Robert
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We have not seen his like since - I suppose Steyn came closest.
Bewal Express
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I agree that Hadlee was consistently good but Marshall had the edge because on flat pitches he had the pace.
Exactly!
I went to match where Sreesanth was bowling and I couldnt see the ball either. But here is how I would settle this : watch the 2nd slip fielder ( Viv Richards I think ) after Boycott is bowled. Put the video in 0.5x speed on youtube and count the steps he takes as he runs towards the crease. I count about 7-8 steps max till he is parallel to the crease. Lets further round up and say 10 steps. This is nothing extraordinary and suggests a normal speed. This is why one should never ever trust words from old era fanatics who are well known for exaggerating things.
Anyhow I had posted this same clip in the past and asked [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] to explain the non-existant footwork of Boycott in that clip - never got a response.
Here is the technical explanation of what happened -- If you observe Boycotts feet movement you can see his feet are going back and across trying to get away from the line of the delivery and then relying on his hands to just poke at the delivery in an attempt to defend the ball well away from his body like a tailender. This is what cost him his wkt and makes that bowling look good. The correct technique is to get on the front foot toe pointing towards cover region get as close to the line of the ball and meet the ball under your eyes with a straight bat infront of your pads or adjacent to it. The front foot stride ensures that even if you miss the ball and it hits you on the pad the impact is outside off.
Here is another example of Boycott vs Holding : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zvKGIrew_4
After 2 bouncers Boycott falls for the old 3 card trick. The 3 rd ball is pitched up and angled wide from around the wkt and Boycott tries to drive at it feet stuck to the crease and edges a simple catch to the keeper. Also notice that he is fully protected - helmet, thigh pad, chest guard, arm guard.
What is so extraordinary about this bowling and batting that I am supposedly missing instead of sitting back and admiring at the supposedly extraordinary cricketing skills of the players ?
Hasan123
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A great fast bowler without a doubt. He is behind the great fast bowlers though such as Akram,Garner ,McGrath,Donald,etc
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