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Which Asian team will be first to win series in Australia/South Africa?

Nope quite sober, that's why i can still count.

14 the number of teams that have toured Australia from pakistan

0 the number of pakistan teams that have won in australia.

yes the current Aussie side isn't as great as it once was but it's not like this is some great Pakistani side, it would be the 6th ranked team in cricket taking on the 4th in a place the 6th ranked team has NEVER won.

You would have to as you said "be on crack" to think Pakistan are a good shot.

I've just smoked some good crack and a thought came to my mind.

Stranger things have happened in cricket, such as the number 1 team behind whitewashed 4-0 against the number 3 team.

I'm gonna say this right now. Next time pak tour we will beat Aus. ANYONE here feel free to quote me on this if it doesn't happen and I'll transfer £10 into your paypal account.
 
Of course Pakistan could win the next time they are in australia but based on the past it's the least likely scenario.

I could easily say that next time Pakistan meet Bangladesh in a test series that Bangladesh will easily sweep Pakistan, i mean it COULD happen it's not likely but as you say anything can happen.

You seem to be almost offend by the idea that pakstan start as rather large underdogs when they play in aus or south africa, well they are so you just have to accept it. ;)
 
Atm, its either SL or Pak who both have a chance to win series' in Aus and SA.
 
Whoever it is, I don't see it happening in the distant future
 
Pakistan have as much chance of winning the upcoming South African series as New Zealand too.

Both will struggle to avoid their respective whitewashes, avoid innings defeats, and avoid being bowled out twice in under four days.
 
I will go with Pakistan among the Asian teams, they are the only ones who have the bowling attack to test the best and some solid batsmen like Azhar, Younus, Misbah, Asad, Sohail, etc.. may help Pakistan in winning a series in the near future.
 
The likes of Umar Gul, Junaid Khan, Wahab Riaz, Saeed Ajmal and Mohammad Hafeez would form a quality attack in any conditions.

However, that is on paper. Wahab hardly gets a game and is treated like dirt. But Aus/SA pitches are made for him. He performed well for the Pak A team in Aus a few years ago.
 
Pakistan have as much chance of winning the upcoming South African series as New Zealand too.

Both will struggle to avoid their respective whitewashes, avoid innings defeats, and avoid being bowled out twice in under four days.

lol. Please don't compare NZ with Pak ever again.

I don't think that any sub-continental team would be able to win in SA anytime soon. However, winning in Australia is a possibility for Pakistan and India.
 
Can Pakistan be the first Asian team to win a Bilateral ODI Series in South Africa?

And with the India tour of SA confirmed as well can they become the first Asian side to win a test series in SA?
 
I've just smoked some good crack and a thought came to my mind.

Stranger things have happened in cricket, such as the number 1 team behind whitewashed 4-0 against the number 3 team.

I'm gonna say this right now. Next time pak tour we will beat Aus. ANYONE here feel free to quote me on this if it doesn't happen and I'll transfer £10 into your paypal account.

QUOTED

I don't have a PayPal account though
 
Pakistan have as much chance of winning the upcoming South African series as New Zealand too.

Both will struggle to avoid their respective whitewashes, avoid innings defeats, and avoid being bowled out twice in under four days.

wow, got a crystal ball?
 
Should be India...hoping for some green wickets this time around otherwise our bowlers would struggle to take 20 wickets!

LOL@ the comment I made a couple of years ago. We don't stand a chance even this time. Period. Hopefully, we won't disappoint the Saffer crowds and stretch their team for 5 days, maybe?
 
LOL@ the comment I made a couple of years ago. We don't stand a chance even this time. Period. Hopefully, we won't disappoint the Saffer crowds and stretch their team for 5 days, maybe?

Shami is a must on this tour!
Have a sneaky feeling that he's gonna do quite well.
 
Can't see it happening for a very very long time.
 
Not gonna happen anytime soon but i'd put my money on India to be the first team to do so.
 
Re: Which Asian team will be the first to win a series in Australia/South Africa?

Bangladesh.
 
Extremely. Their away records speak for themselves.

:91:

They beat England in England in 2007. I don't see Pakistan beating England under 10 in England.

They drew with South Africa in South Africa.

They drew with Australia when they were at the peak of their powers in 2003-2004.

Now lets talk about Pakistan's record in Australia, England and South Africa shall we?

:91:
 
Overall away records for the three subcontinent teams since 2003,

Team Span Mat W L T D W/L
India 2003-2012 55 19 19 0 17 1.00
Pakistan 2003-2013 63 19 29 0 15 0.65
Sri Lanka 2003-2013 43 11 20 0 12 0.55
 
They beat England in England in 2007. I don't see Pakistan beating England under 10 in England.

They drew with South Africa in South Africa.

They drew with Australia when they were at the peak of their powers in 2003-2004.

Now lets talk about Pakistan's record in Australia, England and South Africa shall we?

:91:

Thank God the Indian team of 2003-04 and 2007 is still playing, then. XD

Wait. Jajajaja.
 
Thank God the Indian team of 2003-04 and 2007 is still playing, then. XD

Wait. Jajajaja.

Did I say that? the guy was talking about India's performances in those countries and making a mockery of them.

What they did in Australia in 2003-2004 and England in 2007, we cannot do in a million years.

Jajajajaja.
 
Not gonna happen anytime soon but i'd put my money on India to be the first team to do so.

For far away in future, it's difficult to predict the composition of Asian teams.

Historically, India was the first SC team to win in Eng, NZ & WI. Pakistan was first to win in Zim. It will be great if SL/BD wins it first in either SA or Aus.
 
India has a chance, the players they have got are more arrogant than Aussie current bunch. Aussie current bunch without Watson has no spine even Watto isn't as aggressive as before. India vs Australia in Oz, with Dhawan and Rohit in will be interesting.
 
They are mentally stronger than Pakistan and Sri Lanka, that's why.

What a surprise!

I wouldn't associate mental strength with the subcontinent sides. That would be natural talent.

Whereas the likes of Australia, South Africa and England don't produce extreme pace bowlers, otherworldly spin magicians and super-flair batters, but have greater psychological fortitude.
 
Did I say that? the guy was talking about India's performances in those countries and making a mockery of them.

What they did in Australia in 2003-2004 and England in 2007, we cannot do in a million years.

Jajajajaja.

Haven't we beaten England in England twice already?

I can see Pakistan beating South Africa in the ODIs but India's chances look pretty slim. Dhawan is yet to prove himself, they don't have a #6 and their bowling is pretty bad.
 
Southern hemisphere conditions are completely different. Beating England in England is a great achievement but also doesn't give rise to a valid comparison here.
 
Sri Lanka, if they could only find a couple of express pacemen.

Their batsmen have travelled quite well recently from what I remember.
 
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india when they get their act together

they'll probably win in both those places before 2020
 
Who'll win? Even Bangladesh if they are given a chance....;-) 1st to win? Whoever goes 1st....

P.s. I am talking about australia here. :P

Except for Ponting and Hussey, the exact same players will play. You guys were DESTROYED in every sense. Losing those two players may give you a slight chance now, but please, Australia are by no means a weak team on their own turf. I still say the odds favor them to down you guys 4-0 again.
 
I wouldn't associate mental strength with the subcontinent sides. That would be natural talent.

Whereas the likes of Australia, South Africa and England don't produce extreme pace bowlers, otherworldly spin magicians and super-flair batters, but have greater psychological fortitude.

Perhaps you are right, but Pakistan and Sri Lanka both seem much more palpable than India.
 
Haven't we beaten England in England twice already?

I can see Pakistan beating South Africa in the ODIs but India's chances look pretty slim. Dhawan is yet to prove himself, they don't have a #6 and their bowling is pretty bad.

I'm not talking about ODIs here. I think both Pakistan and India have excellent chances of beating the likes of South Africa in ODIs.

As far as Tests go, India's batting is much stronger than ours and so is their fielding. That makes me think they have a much better chance than us of winning a Test series in those countries.

Like I said, its not going to happen any time soon anyway.
 
Sri Lanka, if they could only find a couple of express pacemen.

Their batsmen have travelled quite well recently from what I remember.

They are really lacking in bowling department. They have just one class Test bowler and he's a spinner.
 
Samarweera and Dilshan have retired haven't they? 2 of the batsman in the line up which won them the durban test.
 
If Indian batsmen can cross 400 they can do it,we lost 0-8 mainly bcz our batters batted very poorly and there was no coming back from the bowlers,Garbage like Sehwag,Gambhir have been got rid off,only worry is Ashwin's form with the ball but Shami and Bhuvi should do alright and Jaddu can take 1-2 anywhere bcz he is so accurate ,slip catching needs to improve
 
I know why it wont be Pakistan.

We might have the talent to do it, but the team is fraught with mental abilities of an emotionally ravaged teenage girl who has suffered 5-6 breakups.
 
Did I say that? the guy was talking about India's performances in those countries and making a mockery of them.

What they did in Australia in 2003-2004 and England in 2007, we cannot do in a million years.

Jajajajaja.

If Pakistan got to face Nathan Bracken and the mighty Brad Williams in tests then you probably could.
 
I don't think Pakistan will ever win a test series in one of those two countries for the very forseeable future because our batting just sucks. Maybe if people like Alam were getting selected we could but I doubt we'd last against Harris and Siddle etc
 
not sure. India probably have a better chance simply because they will play them a lot. We wont be exposed to those conditions for regular periods hence adjusting is problematic. The only way we can win a series in OZ is if we plan for it before hand. And have a good legspinner with some good batsmen. Then we have a chance.

we have to try and first avoid losing. Become hard to beat, then you never know.
 
Lanka will win series in both before either of us looking at things.
 
Will we win a Test series in South Africa or Australia within our lifetimes?

For me if we done this it would equal a WC triumph. But we play in these conditions too little and it looks extremely unlikely that we will change this record.

Your thoughts?
 
Simply because we don't have the batsman who can handle those conditions and Pakistan FC will never produce such lot. Even if we produce the next Wasim and Waqar, their good work will be undone by the batsmen.
 
Maybe against south africa. But australia are the bogey team. Even a team of wasim, waqar, akhtar, saqlain, inzi, anwar and yousuf could not beat them.
 
Yes, it's about time.

Next tour to SA/Aus will result in a series win.

You heard it here first, folks.
 
Quite possible with many series being 2 tests now a days.
 
As buffet said 2 test series are the best shot for an upset win no matter where it is.
 
Unless Aus and SA seriously decline. I doubt it, their aggressive brand of cricket and professional disciplined approach has always got the better of us. Out of all the Asian teams India has the best chance to do this but even then that is a small chance
 
Unless Aus and SA seriously decline. I doubt it, their aggressive brand of cricket and professional disciplined approach has always got the better of us. Out of all the Asian teams India has the best chance to do this but even then that is a small chance

India don't stand a chance with their horrible bowling.

The current pace lot is untested and young as well.
 
India don't stand a chance with their horrible bowling.

The current pace lot is untested and young as well.
If they develop Aaron and Yadav properly they could have a small chance but then again that depends on a lot of variables. Form fitness development. Say if Aaron and Yadav match their potential. Aaron, Yadav and Shami COULD be a formidable pace attack in the future. But still a long way to.go
 
We will win in AUS. Our batsman love pace on the ball. They just cannot play swing.

Take Hafeez to AUS/SA and we will lose because of him ALONE.

Shehzad, U.Akmal & Haris would love those pitches.
 
Australia is looking more likely than South Africa.....simple reason....the Australian team is in transition and what is the likelihood when we tour next...that Michael Clarke, Shane Watson and Ryan Harris will not be playing.

I think the ultimate is winning in South Africa....which Pakistan has the strongest chance due to their bowling
 
How to win in South Africa

To answer this question you need to understand why Pakistan hasn’t won before in Australia or South Africa, and how close they came to doing so previously.

This first post is “Why Pakistan keeps losing in South Africa”.

Near-misses in South Africa

1994-95: Pakistan was heavily defeated in a “winnable” one-off Test in South Africa.

There were three main reasons:
a) This was a team which had recently lost the Mandela Cup Final series in suspicious circumstances and was captained by Salim Malik.
b) Preparation was a joke: Aamer Nazir was the fourth seamer and only flew in on the day of the match.
c) The match was at a bouncy location – Johannesburg.

1997-98: Pakistan drew the series 1-1 in South Africa

Several points stick out:
The Positives
i) They won at Durban which is less bouncy because it is not at high altitude.
ii) The outstanding batsman was Azhar Mahmood, who was the best player of cut and hook shots, and was more effective than more conventional batsmen
iii) The pace attack was perfect.
b) The Negatives
i) The team fell apart when the players suspected of match-fixing were recalled suddenly and abruptly.

2006-07: Pakistan narrowly lost 2-1, losing the decisive Test narrowly

a) The Positives
i) The pace attack (Asif, Shoaib – when fit in one innings - and even Sami) was dangerous.
ii) The lower order scored crucial runs when specialist batsmen failed.
iii) They were 4 wickets away from winning the series
b) The Negatives
i) They lost two close Tests when Danish Kaneria became strangely ineffective in the fourth innings.
ii) There was no real attempt to select specialist back-foot players rather than Asia specialists, so the batting failed repeatedly.

2012-13: Pakistan lost 3-0, but could have won the Second Test.

a) The Positives
i) Junaid and Irfan and even Ehsan Adil bowled well.
ii) The lower order and Asad Shafiq scored runs against the old ball.
b) The Negatives
i) They arrived far too late and played one warm-up game, on a very flat wicket at East London.
ii) The PCB agreed to two Tests at high altitude on bouncy wickets, with no Test at Durban or Port Elizabeth where they traditionally win on flatter decks.
iii) The selectors failed to use Wahab Riaz’ pace and instead inflicted trundlers on the team. They flirted closely with picking 2 quicks and 2 spinners and failed to realize the value of pace in South Africa.


My conclusions are simple:

1. Pakistan needs to have at least 3 quick bowlers in South African Tests, and arguably four.
2. Pakistan needs to ensure that it doesn’t just pick the “best” batsmen but rather the best hookers, pullers and cutters. That means that someone like Umar Akmal should probably be the first batsman picked, because he can score 120 between the 20th and 70th over just like Azhar Mahmood did against Donald, Pollock and De Villiers.
3. Pakistan needs to ensure that numbers 7, 8 and 9 can score runs in South Africa. South Africa will blast the top order out when the Kookaburra is moving in the first 20 overs, and the lower order needs to stay in from overs 20-80 so that 35-3 can at least become 280 all out.
4. The PCB needs to ensure that at least 2 of the 3 Tests are at sea level at Cape Town, Durban or Port Elizabeth.
5. The PCB needs a proper program of acclimatization before playing in South Africa. There should be at least 3 proper First Class matches – which means arriving at least 14-18 days before the First Test, but I would suggest that before that they should play a 2-3 Test series in Zimbabwe too to get the players used to the longer-form of the game.
 
No. Since Pakistan is back to prepare dead track for its home series. Pakistan team is going to struggle big time in overseas.

Huge setback judging by the pitches prepared for Test series. :facepalm:
 
My point about acclimatisation is crucial.

Most of the batsmen are going to be good enough to adapt if they have had enough preparation. Firstly you need to ensure that you don't select the likes of Hafeez in the first place. And secondly you need to ensure that a player like Umar Akmal has had six First Class innings in South Africa before the First Test, plus a further 3 in Zimbabwe.

Pakistan next has a Test tour of South Africa in December 2018, although something sooner might come along.
 
Do not get hopeless!
As long as Misbah And Younus are in our Test team, we can defeat any side of the World in any conditions. (In our current form)
 
Do not get hopeless!
As long as Misbah And Younus are in our Test team, we can defeat any side of the World in any conditions. (In our current form)
What suggests that they can do it any conditions? Last I checked they drew in Zim and lost in SL.
 
Any Sc team would be extremely lucky to win there with the respective current teams.

Great Pak team of 81, 89, 95, 99 could not do it to an avg Aus/SA sides of 80's and early 90s speaks volumes of the mental preparation. Best chance was in 89 & 95 where Australia was rebuilding and Pak side was far superior but their batting let them down big time.

India came extremely close in 85 and 2004 but OZ hung on and these are the 2 sides which looked ahead of Australia
Australia was rebuilding in 85 and missed key bowlers in 2004 on which India couldnt finish it off
Only time India missed a chance in SA was in 2010. gifted SA from 130-6 to 340 in the last test which otherwise in all the series previously and after, India was no-way near.

Agree with OP - it has to be like winning the WC if not greater.
 
Junaids has made some good points.

But realistically it all starts with our FC structure. Without a strong structure, you won't produce world class batsmen capable of hooking, pulling and cutting. Fast bowling is natural but batting requires discipline, technique, temperament and game plan which are all developed in domestic cricket. Also we need to do some research on areas with the hardest soil in Pakistan to figure where the fastest pitch in Pakistan is. Imo, two areas where we might find some fast pitches are Balochistan and up north. This is where the pre-tour training camp should be held.

Organize a lot of A tours in SA/Aus to acclimatize and if possible get your top class batsmen to play in their domestic.

Lastly, three quality fast bowlers and one quality leggie.

Obviously, a good batting coach - that's covered.
 
How to win in Australia

Don’t let anyone tell you that Pakistan can never win a series in Australia. England has. New Zealand has. It can be done – it just needs sound preparation.

Pakistan has done okay there in the modern era at times.

1981-82 – lost a 3 match series 2-1
They were beaten on the bouncy track at the WACA – where Pakistan should never play and on the second bounciest track at Brisbane. But they won at the MCG on its flatter wicket, and should always seek to play a Test there on Boxing Day.


1983-84 – lost a 5 Test series 3-0
This sounds worse than it actually was. Imran Khan was the only fast bowler and was unfit to bowl, and by the time he joined the tour as a batsman – for the Third Test they were already 3-0 down, but drew the next 2 Tests.

Lessons from this tour:
1) Specialist hook/pull/cut merchants like Qasim Omar are more use in Australia than the likes of classical batsmen like Zaheer Abbas and Javed Miandad and Mohsin Khan who can’t adapt to the back-foot game.
2) Without good fast bowlers you are dead meat in Australia.
3) Pakistan will always do best at Adelaide on its flatter pitch.

1989-90 – lost a 3 match series 1-0
Pakistan lost the First Test because they were not fully acclimatised to the moving ball and threw it away in the First Innings. Ijaz Ahmed’s cutting and pulling nearly won the match and, like Azhar Mahmood in South Africa, showed the value of backfoot specialists.

Pakistan nearly won the Second Test at Adelaide, and probably would have if Mushtaq Ahmed had been the finished article as a leg-spinner.

As ever, Adelaide was a relatively easy venue for Pakistan.

1994-95 – lost a 3 match series 2-1
Yet again, they were undercooked in terms of preparation and collapsed at Brisbane in the First Test. They also made the mistake of picking Saqlain Mushtaq instead of Mushtaq Ahmed, showing profound ignorance for the history of legspin versus offspin in Australia

The second Test was much closer – Mushtaq Ahmed was recalled and took 18 wickets in 2 Tests (whereas Saqlain took 4 wickets in 2 tests, Wasim Akram took 14 in 3 and Waqar took 8 in 3).

Pakistan then won the Third Test in Sydney.

Lessons from this tour:
1) Taller fast bowlers do better in Australia than shorter ones like Waqar Younis.
2) Legspinners do better in Australia than offspinners.
3) The batters require at least 3 First Class matches in Australia to adapt to the different length and bounce.

1999-2000 – lost 3-0 in Australia
This was the least one-sided 3-0 hammering in history!

Pakistan threw away winning positions in both of the first two Tests. They were hampered by Mushtaq Ahmed not having played for months and by poor team selection – how on earth was Mohammed Wasim played as an opener instead of Aamir Sohail?

Lessons from this tour:
1) Hobart is, after Adelaide, the best venue for Pakistan in Australia.
2) Pick the best batsmen in Aussie conditions, regardless of how obnoxious they may be (see S Butt, below).
3) Without a legspinner in form it is much harder to survive in Australia.
4) Expect to get slaughtered if you are dumb enough to agree to play in Perth.

2004-05 – lost 3-0 in Australia
Demolished by a better team.

Lessons from this tour:
1) Avoid Perth – bowled out for 72 to compare with 1981-82’s 62 all out.
2) Salman Butt and Younis Khan are your best batsmen in Australia – they were the only two to pass 200 runs, and were far more suited to the conditions than Inzy and Youhana were.
3) Kaneria was your leading wicket-taker – a leggie again.

2009-10 – lost 3-0 in Australia
A suspicious series defeat, as the Sydney Test had to be seen to be believed.


Lessons from this tour:

1) You can’t afford to exclude your best batsmen in Australian conditions The omission of Younis Khan was a total disaster.
2) Salman Butt, unfortunately, was again your best batsman in Australia, he scored 280 runs at 46.66, the next highest scorer was Umar Akmal with 199 runs.
3) Unfortunately again, Mohammed Asif bowled far better than Mohammed Amir (13 wickets at 28.46 compared with 8 wickets at 40.37).

So there is a clear template for success in Australia.

How to win in Australia in 2016
1) Salman Butt and Umar Akmal need to be the first two batsmen on the teamsheet if you want to win. (I despise Salman Butt, but I know that the tour of Australia is when you are really going to need him).
2) Left-handers often do well in Australia.
3) Given that Saeed Ajmal will be nearly 40, the only spin bowlers you should even take on the plane are legspinners. Yasir Shah because he is the best one you have, Usman Qadir because he has more experience in Australian conditions than any other Pakistani.
4) Your top-order will get out to the Kookaburra in the first 20 overs. You need the batsmen at 6,7,8 and 9 to score 80% of the runs, so plan accordingly.
5) Make sure that the fast bowlers you take on tour – and you will require 6 – are tall. Even Waqar Younis at 6 foot was mediocre in Australia – an Ehsan Adil will always be more useful than a Junaid Khan in Australia because he is 4 inches taller.
6) Don’t agree to play in Perth. You arrive in December 2016 while South Africa plays 3 Tests v Australia. Arrive 4 weeks before the First Test and play against every state you can in a First Class match – at least 3, preferably 4. Your First Test should be the Boxing Day test at the MCG and the Second Test will be the New Year one at Sydney. Ensure that the Third Test is in Adelaide or Hobart, not Perth.

Pakistan can win in Australia in 2016-17. They will have played 3 Tests in New Zealand and 4 in England in the preceding year, and the players who don’t know where their off-stumps are should already have left the scene.

You will only win if you play your best players in Australian conditions, and that means you need Asif but especially Butt. To be quite honest, Butt should probably be the first batsman selected, and Umar Akmal the second, in spite of their baggage.

A lot can change, but at this stage my team would be:

1. Ahmed Shehzad
2. Salman Butt
3. Azhar Ali
4. Umar Akmal
5. Haris Sohail
6. Asad Shafiq
7. Sarfraz Ahmed
8. Mohammed Amir
9. Ehsan Adil
10. Yasir Shah
11. Mohammed Irfan

My reserves would be Babar Azam, Hammad Azam, Usman Qadir, Wahab Riaz, Junaid Khan and Mohammed Asif at this stage. I’m assuming that Younis Khan will have retired.
 
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Incidentally, my team will require both Shehzad and Azhar ali to bowl around 10 overs per innings.

Irfan and Amir are your strike bowlers to bowl spells of a maximum of 5 overs' duration at good pace.

Ehsan Adil is there to bowl into the wind for longer (8 over) spells and to give very little away.

I would have preferred to see a fast-medium all-rounder at number 6 but I'm not sure that you have one. So I've got Ehsan Adil ahead of Asif because if he comes in at 180-7 he might score 25 and lift the total to 270 all out, whereas Asif would come in at 195-9 and lift the core to 195 all out.

The prior success of Salman Butt and Umar Akmal in Australia is a huge thing: in 2010 they scored a lot of runs.
 
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