Which English players pre-2015 would make this current England ODI squad?

[Rana]

Interesting thought when considering the vast transformation of sides such as England in this case. When you see a complete change in the approach and mindset of a side you tend to question what was going wrong/right in the past and why there is such a change in the present.

So England's turning point came after the 2015 world cup where they vowed as a nation to revolutionise the English approach to the limited overs game. As a result, they have produced and ATG side 4 years later and some of the greatest names in the history of the ODI game would struggle to make this side. Inzimam-ul-Haq even in his prime with 80+ ODI 50s, world cup winning knocks and performances under severe pressure would not make this England side if here were in possession of a British Passport. Such is the drastic change and preference that England now have for the limited overs cricketer.

However I want to focus my attention on those English players in the past who have represented England, and would also be considered as the players that can match the top ODI players of the world. Would those top English players be good enough for this England side due to their attacking brand of cricket?

Let us first short list the players who can be considered:
1. Kevin Pietersen
2. Andrew Flintoff
3. Darren Gough
4. Markus Trescothic

Only these 4 players come to mind who have done enough at the highest level to even be considered. There were many who played stints of the attacking brand, but none of them played long enough to leave a mark in ODI cricket the way these 4 have done so.

The question now is, who is good enough (in their prime) to replace the current players in the XI? First and foremost, I do not believe Trescothic would be able to replace Bairstow or Roy as an opener. I doubt Kevin Pietersen of 2006-7 versus Root and Butler of 2019 is an interesting question for the middle order spot. Andrew Flintoff should replace one of the pacers, but will he bat before Moeen at number 7? Stokes at 6 and Moeen at 7 are far superior batsmen than Flintoff. A celebrated all-rounder, Legend like Flintoff may have to bat at number 8 or 9 for this England side.

Lastly I would say that Darren Gough is an ideal bowler in ODI cricket because of his ability to bowl in-swinging yorkers at the death. Once again the question posed is that would the current English set up compromise on a pace bowler who may not offer much with the bat? Adil Rashid is England's number 11, he can bat! Archer and Sam Curren both can bat.

The only guy who clearly makes it into this England side is Flintoff replacing one of the Bowlers.

Your thoughts.

 

[Bilal7]

Inzamam-ul-Haq would certainly make this England team. Let's not pretend that these English batsmen would be scoring 350+ in the 90s and as well. The game has changed massively since 2015 and if the likes of Inzamam were playing today, they would most certainly adapt their game to keep up, given their proven quality.

As for your question, I think Broad and Botham would make this team as well.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Ian botham
Flintoff(England's best odi bowler ever)
Gough in place of plunkett

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Inzamam-ul-Haq would certainly make this England team. Let's not pretend that these English batsmen would be scoring 350+ in the 90s and as well. The game has changed massively since 2015 and if the likes of Inzamam were playing today, they would most certainly adapt their game to keep up, given their proven quality.

As for your question, I think Broad and Botham would make this team as well.

Broad?

 

[Bilal7]

Broad?

A better pace bowler than Plunkett, Wood and for now at least, Jofra Archer.

 

[shaykh]

No Swann?...

 

[Markhor]

Darren Gough

 

[Rana]

Inzamam-ul-Haq would certainly make this England team. Let's not pretend that these English batsmen would be scoring 350+ in the 90s and as well. The game has changed massively since 2015 and if the likes of Inzamam were playing today, they would most certainly adapt their game to keep up, given their proven quality.

As for your question, I think Broad and Botham would make this team as well.

I would kindly disagree.

What number and for whos position would you bat Inzamam? Inzi is just one example. I would dare say that England would not play the Tendulkar of 2003 (Peak Tendulkar) in this current line up as an opener and play peak condition Sehwag as an opener and Yuvraj as a number 5 in place of Morgan. Even that would require a serious amount of debate.

 

[Rana]

No Swann?...

I did think of mentioning his name but I checked his stats. Not enough ODIs to be considered tbh. Even in his peak condition, I do think he is better suited to play in this English side over Rashid. Probably a better fielder and as useful a batsman as Rashid would be at 10-11. Then again, do England want to play 2 off-spinners in the modern game or would they rather have the variety of one off-spinner and one leggie?

 

[Mr.Q]

Lastly I would say that Darren Gough is an ideal bowler in ODI cricket because of his ability to bowl in-swinging yorkers at the death. Once again the question posed is that would the current English set up compromise on a pace bowler who may not offer much with the bat? Adil Rashid is England's number 11, he can bat! Archer and Sam Curren both can bat.

The only guy who clearly makes it into this England side is Flintoff replacing one of the Bowlers.

Your thoughts.

Flintoff and Trescothic. Darren Gough shouldn’t be in this list. His stats are very misleading.

 

[Sean143]

I would kindly disagree.

What number and for whos position would you bat Inzamam? Inzi is just one example. I would dare say that England would not play the Tendulkar of 2003 (Peak Tendulkar) in this current line up as an opener and play peak condition Sehwag as an opener and Yuvraj as a number 5 in place of Morgan. Even that would require a serious amount of debate.

Inzi would make any number from 1-6 in this England 11.

Tendulkar would easily make ay number from 1-4 in this side. He was an aggressive player even in the 1990's. The likes of Roy and Bairstow wouldn't have been able to play this brand of cricket on the pitches that were on offer 10-15 years ago, and that too against one new ball (that actually swung at the start and then reserved at the end). One should also count the field restrictions which exist now.

Just make the following changes and watch these teams struggle to get to 250, even with their immense batting depth.
(1) Replace two new balls with one that actually swings. The ball will reverse as well it that happens
(2) Re-invoke the fielding restrictions which were there about 15 years ago.
(3) doctor pitches in a way that keeps the balance between the bat and ball

English batters have been clueless on difficult pitches on numerous occasions, which shows how good they actually are.

The 1999 WC sides of Pak and SA, would thrash this English side at its own game.

 

[Rana]

Flintoff and Trescothic. Darren Gough shouldn’t be in this list. His stats are very misleading.

In this day and age, I believe Gough will go for 6-7 runs per over in his first and possibly second spell. The only reason I would suggest he stays and would get selected is because he was a 87-90mph bowler and also a very good exponent of the Yorker. He is underrated for his inswinging yorkers because Waqar Younis takes most of the plaudits for this during the same era. England would definetly prefer a bowler with high quality death bowling skills like Gough

 

[QalandarFan]

KP, Flintoff, and Botham, all make this side easily.

 

[Kianig89]

England have come a.long way since the time of Ian Austin opening the bowling in 99WC and Nasser batting at the start genuine trundling by Austin and Ealham to Nasser's 10 runs in 7 overs :ranatunga

Then.came. 2003 and the mediocrity of Caddick etal

 

[shaykh]

I did think of mentioning his name but I checked his stats. Not enough ODIs to be considered tbh. Even in his peak condition, I do think he is better suited to play in this English side over Rashid. Probably a better fielder and as useful a batsman as Rashid would be at 10-11. Then again, do England want to play 2 off-spinners in the modern game or would they rather have the variety of one off-spinner and one leggie?

I'd have him instead of Moeen everytime...

 

[The_Odd_One]

KP is one of their greatest ODI bat of all time. He can easily replace one of the openers.

Flintoff and Botham were better bowlers than what England has to offer now so they make the team over a specialist bowler.

Swann was an excellent ODI bowler who would make the team over Moeen Ali.

Bob Willis was one of their best ODI bowlers so he will be one of the specialist bowlers.

<b>1. KP</b>
2. Bairstow
3. Root
4. Morgan
5. Buttler
6. Stokes
<b>7. Flintoff
8. Botham</b>
9. Rashid
<b>10. Swann
11. Willis</b>

This team has enormous batting depth and 6 solid bowling options.

 

[Mr.Q]

In this day and age, I believe Gough will go for 6-7 runs per over in his first and possibly second spell. The only reason I would suggest he stays and would get selected is because he was a 87-90mph bowler and also a very good exponent of the Yorker. He is underrated for his inswinging yorkers because Waqar Younis takes most of the plaudits for this during the same era. England would definetly prefer a bowler with high quality death bowling skills like Gough

I’m not sure really. His style of bowling is unlikely to be successful in this era. I remember him being far too predictable and towards the end of his career aggressive batsmen did make use of it. He was also unfit. You could see him trying to catch his breath after each delivery. He’d be a liability on the field too in the modern game. I feel when compared to the other players in your list who were greats of their era he wasn’t that good.

 

[Captain caveman]

KP
flintoff
Botham
Fairbrother
Allan lamb
Robin smith
Phil defrietas
Kiettsweter
Swan
Alec stewart
Phil tufnel
Andrew strauss
Etc

 

[Hasan123]

Botham can surely make this team as a bowling all rounder.

 

[AZ]

KP, Trescothick, Swann & Flintoff.

 

[gazza619]

KP, Trescothick, Swann & Flintoff.

Can add Botham too.

 

[Abdullah]

People not realising what a difference one ball made ( reverse) and the extra fielder outside the circle.
Half these players today would be toast If the ball moves an inch

 

[MMHS]

Ridiculous thread. These English batsmen are very good at hitting through the line with heavy bat on 350 per tracks and machine stitched balls that doesn’t swing an inch.

It’s unfair to compare players from other era when the playing context has changed dramatically. I give an example from another game - when Hockey was played on grass Hasan Sardar was absolutely unstoppable forward. Then it went to synthetic turf and they changed the penalty corner rule - in 10-12 years Sohail Abbas, Bovelander scored plenty; now they have taken out off side rule but tighten penalty corner rule - different set of players are scoring more.

The way modern ODI is played in UK, I am sure players like Botham, Lamb, KP would have been frighteningly good, while Gooch definitely would have done better than Root & Flintoff over Stokes for his bowling.

On contrary, none of the current bowlers will make it over Gough, Broad, Anderson and Willis, least said about spinners better. The game has changed and we are watching cricket on steroids - it’s better not to compare players. But, in T20, these players will definitely do better because of their improvisation skills and in T20 you don’t need batting defence much : 12 ball 23 is much better if 7-8 players can do that in your line up.