Which is the most secular city in Pakistan?

[minamino]

I have been around the whole Pakistan and lived in Lahore and I can guarantee that Lahore is a very conservative city. Islamabad used to be a secular and progressive city but I don't think it is anymore since many people from nearby villages like Chakwal and Taxila have started moving to the city. I have been to Karachi but for a really short time and it looked like a really secular and progressive city.

 

[Rafa]

Karachi easily - afterall its the most multicultural and coolest city of Pakistan. Lahore is conservative and gives paindoo vibes whereas Islamabad also has a thriving " live and let live " progressive attitude but a boring and less lively city.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Karachi

 

[minamino]

Karachi easily - afterall its the most multicultural and coolest city of Pakistan. Lahore is conservative and gives paindoo vibes whereas Islamabad also has a thriving " live and let live " progressive attitude but a boring and less lively city.

I don't care if its boring or not.

 

[ahmedzee]

Boss, all of Pakistan is secular now. Maybe Peshawar might be a little less.

 

[minamino]

Boss, all of Pakistan is secular now. Maybe Peshawar might be a little less.

If it is, then why Zindagi Tamasha is not being released?

 

[hafeezrocks]

Karachi. Though it was even better in the 70s when the City had a Vibrant Nightlife and Music scene where artists from around the World performed before Zia-ul-Haq came to power

In terms of provinces, Interior Sindh and Baloch societies are more inclusive and secular.

 

[ahmedzee]

If it is, then why Zindagi Tamasha is not being released?

That has nothing to do with secularism but with Mulla politics, which obviously they will lose eventually.
As a person visiting or staying there, alhamdulillah all of Pakistan is quite secular and you will enjoy the hospitality from locals coming from all background and religion, while respecting your religion and background. That's what secularism is, not delaying a release of a movie.

 

[Syed1]

Karachi is the only true multilingual, multicultural city in Pakistan and naturally it is most secular. The rest of cities are basically oversized villages.

 

[Bigboii]

Wow how's everyone gonna do Lahore like that we are not that bad
But tbh even though I love Lahore we are pretty conservative so I think for me Karachi is head and shoulders above the rest if you are talking about a proper city cause Islamabad doesn't really have that urban vibe if you are into that
But good luck when it rains

 

[Bigboii]

Karachi is the only true multilingual, multicultural city in Pakistan and naturally it is most secular. The rest of cities are basically oversized villages.

Hope you are not talking about Lahore cause after islo it's the most devaloped city in Pak

 

[minamino]

That has nothing to do with secularism but with Mulla politics, which obviously they will lose eventually.
As a person visiting or staying there, alhamdulillah all of Pakistan is quite secular and you will enjoy the hospitality from locals coming from all background and religion, while respecting your religion and background. That's what secularism is, not delaying a release of a movie.

Mullah politics is the biggest indicator of conservative society. The fact that mullahs can hold the whole country hostage over a movie just shows how conservative Pakistan is.

 

[AdamM97]

Never been in Karachi, but Islamabadis tend to be less conservative compared to Lahoris.

Lahore itself is a very diverse city, and you’ll find a few tolerant people, but the majority of the people are bigoted in one way or the other.

 

[Bigboii]

Mullah politics is the biggest indicator of conservative society. The fact that mullahs can hold the whole country hostage over a movie just shows how conservative Pakistan is.

Damn why do you care about that movie so much watch it on Netflix or something

Every country has some crazy things to deal with and Pakistan has mullahs (this doesn't reflect all of the mullahs) I guess we have to live with it and just try to make small differences

 

[ahmedzee]

Mullah politics is the biggest indicator of conservative society. The fact that mullahs can hold the whole country hostage over a movie just shows how conservative Pakistan is.

There are white supremacist in Norway US and Amsterdam but is that place conservation or secular? Come on!
The TLP politics is extremely minor when you see whole of Pakistan. And it is dying a slow painful death.

 

[JaDed]

There are white supremacist in Norway US and Amsterdam but is that place conservation or secular? Come on!
The TLP politics is extremely minor when you see whole of Pakistan. And it is dying a slow painful death.

Lets not compare States with South Asia, no white nationalist can get a movie stopped showing white nationalists in bad light, like ever.

Freedom of speech is in some other dimension in western world compared to Asia.. so don’t bring in States as a point of comparison.

 

[DoosraTeesra]

Unfortunate but Pakistan as whole is generally conservative. Varying degree of conservatism are found in each city. Karachi being the least conservative but still has sizable conservative elements, then Islamabad and Lahore in the order. Lahore wouldn't be this bad if it wasn't the hub of TLP far right fanatics.

Peshawar and Quetta are just on another level of conservatism.

 

[ahmedzee]

Lets not compare States with South Asia, no white nationalist can get a movie stopped showing white nationalists in bad light, like ever.

Freedom of speech is in some other dimension in western world compared to Asia.. so don’t bring in States as a point of comparison.

Yes, white nationalist can only shoot in cinema...just think about the idealogy white supremacist got...then we can discuss how some Mullah are trying to stop a movie...
Also, weren't there several threat to so many movies in India..lets not open the secular can of worms coming from India, we would need a separate threat as to how India is a hindu fascist nation and not secular.

 

[moghul]

Mohenjo-daro

 

[amax]

none, the reason is that even the most secular pakistanis in "outlook" from various groups,Punjabis/pathans/karachites/sindhis/kashmiris etc are apologetic toward islam and will always try to give justifications and sugar coat it.

 

[JaDed]

Yes, white nationalist can only shoot in cinema...just think about the idealogy white supremacist got...then we can discuss how some Mullah are trying to stop a movie...
Also, weren't there several threat to so many movies in India..lets not open the secular can of worms coming from India, we would need a separate threat as to how India is a hindu fascist nation and not secular.

That’s why I said South Asia and even went as far as to say Asia , don’t let your insecurity hinder your comprehension skills.

And which cinema did white supremacist shoot , against which movie?

 

[Pakistanian]

None. Pakistani society is extremely conservative and parochial.

 

[angrypathan]

Peshawar

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Perhaps if they changed the name of the country to the Secular Republic of Pakistan it may help push the Islamic society to adopt more secular outlook.

 

[minamino]

Perhaps if they changed the name of the country to the Secular Republic of Pakistan it may help push the Islamic society to adopt more secular outlook.

Your logic is fractured because a lot of cities in Islamic countries are secular. Heck, even Erbil in Iraq is secular.

 

[angrypathan]

Your logic is fractured because a lot of cities in Islamic countries are secular. Heck, even Erbil in Iraq is secular.

Iraqi Kurdistan is an autonomous region though.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Your logic is fractured because a lot of cities in Islamic countries are secular. Heck, even Erbil in Iraq is secular.

Iraq doesn't have Islamic republic stamped right on it's nameplate though. I don't know if you are missing the logic or just missing the point.

 

[Lonewarrior]

none, the reason is that even the most secular pakistanis in "outlook" from various groups,Punjabis/pathans/karachites/sindhis/kashmiris etc are apologetic toward islam and will always try to give justifications and sugar coat it.

are you out of your mind ?

 

[minamino]

Iraq doesn't have Islamic republic stamped right on it's nameplate though. I don't know if you are missing the logic or just missing the point.

But still, Pakistan needs to do better than them. Religious discrimination is pretty high in Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But still, Pakistan needs to do better than them. Religious discrimination is pretty high in Pakistan.

I will repeat it so maybe at some point it may register. Do you think there might be a problem with calling the country the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and then expecting a secular mindset in the different cities?

When the very identity of a country is religious, should you be surprised if there is religious descrimination?

 

[humzy]

Boss, all of Pakistan is secular now. Maybe Peshawar might be a little less.

That’s great if true but the last time I went to Pakistan I felt like it was the least secular country I have been to in my life.

 

[minamino]

I will repeat it so maybe at some point it may register. Do you think there might be a problem with calling the country the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and then expecting a secular mindset in the different cities?

When the very identity of a country is religious, should you be surprised if there is religious descrimination?

Just because it happens doesn't mean its right. What if USA and UK start discriminating against Muslims and Jews since Christianity laid the foundation for these countries.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just because it happens doesn't mean its right. What if USA and UK start discriminating against Muslims and Jews since Christianity laid the foundation for these countries.

It's unlikely, but you can never rule anything out in a democracy. UK describes itself as a Kingdom where the monarch still reigns, this makes a secular constitution more easier to legislate. US is a hotch potch of different states, and their inhabitants are mainly immigrants from Europe and Africa. I don't know think there was ever any religious authority there so again, secular living probably comes more naturally to the citizens there.

 

[rahulrulezz]

I will genuinely call Pakistan a secular country if someone can find me one couple where the man is hindu and the girl is Muslim in the whole of Pakistan. I am pretty sure the guy will be killed right away. Just one couple in whole of Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I will genuinely call Pakistan a secular country if someone can find me one couple where the man is hindu and the girl is Muslim in the whole of Pakistan. I am pretty sure the guy will be killed right away. Just one couple in whole of Pakistan.

Pakistan doesn't claim to be secular though.

 

[minamino]

I will genuinely call Pakistan a secular country if someone can find me one couple where the man is hindu and the girl is Muslim in the whole of Pakistan. I am pretty sure the guy will be killed right away. Just one couple in whole of Pakistan.

Man, that's too much. It's rare to even find a Shia-Sunni couple in Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Incidentally, VS Naipul married a Pakistani woman I believe, although I have no idea where they lived after tying the knot.

 

[minamino]

Incidentally, VS Naipul married a Pakistani woman I believe, although I have no idea where they lived after tying the knot.

What about Shia Sunni couples in Pakistan? Shias are Muslims

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What about Shia Sunni couples in Pakistan? Shias are Muslims

I don't know, I don't live in Pakistan so have no idea how the Shia/Sunni thing works over there. I thought you were a "Pakistani", surely you should be advising me on it.

 

[Nostalgic]

Sunni-Shia marriages (these days called Sushi marriages, with ensuing Sushi kids), while not the norm, are certainly not unknown. Among the Sadaat, they are in fact quite common.

My father is Sushi, and so was my maternal grandmother, and because of that, many in our extended family have names that are considered stereotypically Shia, even though none actually are. And we aren’t even Sadaat.

 

[Minnowbasher]

Mirpur Azad Kashmir

 

[angrypathan]

Man, that's too much. It's rare to even find a Shia-Sunni couple in Pakistan.

They're not at all rare. I know several such couples living in Pakistan

 

[PetroDollars]

its actually murree, chitral is also quite secular.

Karachi is stuffed these days with jamat islami type weirdos.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

its actually murree, chitral is also quite secular.

Karachi is stuffed these days with jamat islami type weirdos.

Come on now!

 

[jalebi-lover]

Why should we be secular when we are an ISLAMIC republic. We should just take care of our minorities. I am glad that Pakistan isnt that secular anymore alhamdulilah

 

[szrana]

Pakistan will never be secular, Insha Allah

 

[Syed1]

Why should we be secular when we are an ISLAMIC republic. We should just take care of our minorities. I am glad that Pakistan isnt that secular anymore alhamdulilah

Why you live in secular Netherlands?

 

[szrana]

Lets not compare States with South Asia, no white nationalist can get a movie stopped showing white nationalists in bad light, like ever.

Freedom of speech is in some other dimension in western world compared to Asia.. so don’t bring in States as a point of comparison.

Nonsense, try denying holocaust in Germany or France and see what happens. Burning LGBT flags is considered hate speech but burning copies of the Quran is considered perfectly ok.

 

[szrana]

Why you live in secular Netherlands?

Maybe he is doing Dawah there?

 

[minamino]

Pakistan will never be secular, Insha Allah

Why so much hate against secularism? I assume you live outside of Pakistan, would you like if those countries become Christian countries?

 

[szrana]

Why so much hate against secularism? I assume you live outside of Pakistan, would you like if those countries become Christian countries?

Pakistan was formed on an Islamic identity, it should never be a secular country. Rather we should try to be a good model of Islam to the world a bit like Malaysia or Indonesia. As for your other question, I don't live in the West. If I ever migrate to any other country it will be to Saudi Arabia. IMO, western countries should return to Christianity, it will cure a lot of their decadence like incest, pornography, pedophilia etc.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why you live in secular Netherlands?

Well I live in secular England but I also believe in democracy so people should be allowed to choose their govt whether secular or not. That is my philosophy. If people aren't ready for secular rule in Pakistan, there is no point in enforcing it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Only people who say Islamabad is boring either don't live in Islamabad or don't have friends in Islamabad. Or maybe your friends are nerds and you're an introvert. I'd take Islamabad over the overwhelming demerits of Karachi and the unbreatheable air + mosquitoes of Lahore any day.

 

[minamino]

Well I live in secular England but I also believe in democracy so people should be allowed to choose their govt whether secular or not. That is my philosophy. If people aren't ready for secular rule in Pakistan, there is no point in enforcing it.

Same happened with Iran. Look at them now, non-existent economy, getting pounded by the US, People can't even use social media there.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Same happened with Iran. Look at them now, non-existent economy, getting pounded by the US, People can't even use social media there.

Iran is not the same as Pakistan, I don't know how the elections work there, but they operate as a theocratic state, not a democracy. Their economy is down the toilet because of sanctions by western govts allied together. Even a secular country can't flourish under such conditions.

 

[Bigboii]

Only people who say Islamabad is boring either don't live in Islamabad or don't have friends in Islamabad. Or maybe your friends are nerds and you're an introvert. I'd take Islamabad over the overwhelming demerits of Karachi and the unbreatheable air + mosquitoes of Lahore any day.

Both the big cities offer culture, more opportunities to make it big and that urban vibe that other cities just do not have Islamabad will reach that point in a couple of years but it's not there yet

I do not know what kinds of entertainment spots you are talking about but I am sure both the big cities would have these spots and plus some remember these cities have been around for so many years they weren't selling chana chat all these years they obviously were building up

I agree with you on calling it boring from personal experience I always had fun there but not where I would live

 

[shockbound]

Karachi!

 

[jalebi-lover]

Why you live in secular Netherlands?

I am born and raised here moving back after I finished my study in sha Allah

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Karachi!

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Bagh in kashmir is also quite secular as is jhelum

Islamabad for sure
Rawalpindi would be if it wasn't for the politics

 

[HasanA]

Pakistan was formed on an Islamic identity, it should never be a secular country. Rather we should try to be a good model of Islam to the world a bit like Malaysia or Indonesia. As for your other question, I don't live in the West. If I ever migrate to any other country it will be to Saudi Arabia. IMO, western countries should return to Christianity, it will cure a lot of their decadence like incest, pornography, pedophilia etc.

You are a product of mullah culture. Pakistan was formed to give Muslims a homeland where they can freely be themselves while protecting other non Muslims who didn’t choose to move. Pakistan can in fact never be islam until it’s citizens practice true faith and mullah are the biggest theistic frauds in Pakistani society. Your brain has already been fried that if you want to live in another country it will be the Saud family kingdom the wahabi extremism center of the world. You seem to have 0 knowledge because Christianity at time the modern nations were being formed were worse than wahabis of today

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just out of interest, why does Pakistan describe itself as an Islamic Republic? Is there even such a thing?

 

[angrypathan]

Just out of interest, why does Pakistan describe itself as an Islamic Republic? Is there even such a thing?

So they have a convenient smokescreen to hide behind when people call them out for discriminating laws and policies

 

[Mamoon]

No city is secular enough to be considered secular. In every major city, you will find and non-secular elements.

Peshawar is catching up as well.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So they have a convenient smokescreen to hide behind when people call them out for discriminating laws and policies

But that would mean the people who first conceived of the Islamic republic were themselves of evil design. Is that your view of Jinnah?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Only people who say Islamabad is boring either don't live in Islamabad or don't have friends in Islamabad. Or maybe your friends are nerds and you're an introvert. I'd take Islamabad over the overwhelming demerits of Karachi and the unbreatheable air + mosquitoes of Lahore any day.

Just for the sake of curiosity, what's there to do in Islamabad?

(Not a troll question, I might visit in a couple of years! We have some relatives in Rawalpindi tho)

 

[Mamoon]

Just for the sake of curiosity, what's there to do in Islamabad?

(Not a troll question, I might visit in a couple of years! We have some relatives in Rawalpindi tho)

Islamabad has everything that any other Pakistani city can offer. The only thing it doesn’t have is a beach.

 

[minamino]

Even though Peshawar is a very conservative city, Pathans in the West are usually very secular and liberal.

 

[shafkath]

In what way is a secular society progression

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Islamabad has everything that any other Pakistani city can offer. The only thing it doesn’t have is a beach.

Beaches (in Pakistan) are overrated anyway.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Even though Peshawar is a very conservative city, Pathans in the West are usually very secular and liberal.

Yes Peshawar is great. Go there for 3 days, feel like I've been there for 5. But that probably has something to do with the local delights.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The most liberal city in Pakistan by far is Karachi

 

[Major]

Techically, its Rabwa.....

I always wanted to live in Karachi for a few year. I want to feel the multiculturalism of karachi.

NO other city in Pakistan is multicultural. I used to think Islamabad is liberal, but truth is its not.

People in Islamabad live in their own bubble, plus one thing i noticed is that all the islamabadis are just outsiders. Locals have mainly left he country

 

[szrana]

You are a product of mullah culture. Pakistan was formed to give Muslims a homeland where they can freely be themselves while protecting other non Muslims who didn’t choose to move. Pakistan can in fact never be islam until it’s citizens practice true faith and mullah are the biggest theistic frauds in Pakistani society. Your brain has already been fried that if you want to live in another country it will be the Saud family kingdom the wahabi extremism center of the world. You seem to have 0 knowledge because Christianity at time the modern nations were being formed were worse than wahabis of today

Lol, you truly represent desi liberals. Resorting to personal attacks and ad hominems. It is every Muslim's dream to live near Mecca and Medina, I couldn't care less about Wahabism. You clearly know nothing about Christianity. Traditional Christianity is any day better than the vacuous toilet bowl that is liberalism which is destroying the Western civilization from within.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Karachi for sure. People are relatively more progressive and open minded

 

[angrypathan]

But that would mean the people who first conceived of the Islamic republic were themselves of evil design. Is that your view of Jinnah?

Jinnah did not propose an Islamic Republic. He proposed a secular nation with a majority Muslim population. Pakistan became an Islamic Republic in 1956

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Jinnah did not propose an Islamic Republic. He proposed a secular nation with a majority Muslim population. Pakistan became an Islamic Republic in 1956

Fair enough. What changed in 1956? What was the driving force behind putting the Islamic republic precursor in the country's name?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Karachi …..

Its called The City of Lights, it has the great street food in all Pakistan, it has the night life which you wont find in all Pakistan.
but right now its not getting the fair share it deserved, so far PTI have failed to deliver , people of karachi were hoping to get rid off from PPP shackles ,if it continues then Establishment wil have to make a move on the Option B , which is going to be apply whether someone like it or not, whether someone try to play sindh card or ethnic card.

it all goes back to 2015/16, when Establishment decided to go according to the plan of CPEC, many people wont know that Karachi is the Part of CPEC (indirectly), it will be implemented when CPECs 2nd or 3rd phase will conclude.

Establishment wants to merge it under Federal Govt, after that it will get freedom from PPP shackles.
Also, The Pakistan Navy HQ is in Karachi, Navy is going to get bigger war ships , submarines and new defence equipment from China , Turky and from some european countries.

Once Gawadar will complete, Karachi will go for the major upgrade changes, one by one.

It’s The first line of defence of Pak Navy. Most likely, Karachi will be the first major non-Capital city to get the latest SAM cover for whole City in near future. Because it has a direct threat and its vulnerable from our adversary.

 

[Mamoon]

Fair enough. What changed in 1956? What was the driving force behind putting the Islamic republic precursor in the country's name?

Pakistan has no identity without religion because it has whitewashed its non-Muslim history. Hence, the first constitution adopted the “Islamic republic” in order to project Pakistan as a defender of the Muslim ummah and detach the country from its shared heritage with India.

 

[Ronaldo7]

The world is turning to the far-right and is becoming more and more islamphobic and we're here trying to be secular.

No self-respect whatsoever

 

[Ronaldo7]

In what way is a secular society progression

They're just trying to please their western masters while their western masters promote white nationalism.
Sad to see.